IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-04-02
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00:31:36 <DanMacK> Hey all
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02:02:56 <supermop> hello
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03:11:29 <Chris_Booth> hi Alle
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04:43:24 <Chris_Booth> I am sorry, but the colour have been anoying me for a few months now so I have added them to FA
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04:43:26 <Chris_Booth> FA
04:43:36 <Chris_Booth> if you need more details please ask me
04:44:46 <Chris_Booth> the 2 colours that I have given you images for you can't see the diffenerce for on any screen that I use
04:45:03 <Chris_Booth> so please as me for more information
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06:25:59 <andythenorth> morning
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06:33:59 <Rubidium> moi andy
06:47:40 <planetmaker> moin
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06:59:03 * andythenorth does grumble
06:59:49 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: you know that you'll need an almost-flat map for a 10x15 industry to find a location?
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07:01:03 <andythenorth> with widely spaced towns, and widely spaced objects, industries, other immovables
07:01:06 <andythenorth> and low water
07:01:39 <andythenorth> and maximum height difference of 1 tile across that 10x15 area
07:03:05 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: yes. plenty of ways to get those ;)
07:03:16 <andythenorth> terraform :P
07:03:21 <andythenorth> with magic bulldozer cheat
07:03:35 <Eddi|zuHause> i think the industry code already terraforms +/-1 level across the whole industry area
07:03:45 <Eddi|zuHause> on map generation
07:03:50 <andythenorth> it will try and level a platform yes
07:04:05 <andythenorth> in many cases that's no possible due to construction further / up down a slope
07:04:15 <andythenorth> ach
07:04:21 <andythenorth> I don't know why I'm arguing
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07:04:43 <andythenorth> the general opinion of a lot of (wrong) people seems to be that industries are not large enough
07:05:04 <andythenorth> :P
07:05:42 <andythenorth> it's also completely inappropriate for a fully loaded 747 to land / take off in 6 tiles
07:05:55 <andythenorth> and as for the problem with trains and depots...
07:06:00 <andythenorth> :|
07:06:06 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, there's no such thing as a "to scale" industry
07:06:24 <andythenorth> that's the way it should be :D
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07:06:46 <andythenorth> good toys use selective compression of some elements
07:07:25 * andythenorth should have slept more and will now get off high horse before falling off
07:07:39 <andythenorth> hmm
07:07:55 <andythenorth> it would be nice to plant some appropriate fields around sheep and dairy farms
07:08:06 <andythenorth> but I think that project has died permanently :)
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07:30:46 <Terkhen> good morning
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09:16:41 <Wolf01> hello
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09:18:25 <Terkhen> hi Wolf01
09:20:41 <Mazur> Good
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10:02:58 <andythenorth> frosch123: extended sprite layout isn't in 1.1 is it?
10:03:04 <andythenorth> in case I missed it somewhere?
10:03:14 <planetmaker> not
10:05:24 <frosch123> no, it is not finsihed yet
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10:10:45 <andythenorth> ok
10:10:58 <andythenorth> I shall not do any FIRS date-specific graphics yet then
10:10:59 <andythenorth> :)
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10:29:30 <st6> is there a way to fix mouse lagging in the game?
10:29:50 <st6> or is it just a fps thing or something
10:30:31 <SmatZ> if you see the game has low fps, then your mouse will be seemingly lagging
10:30:41 <planetmaker> it doesn't lag here, so... ^
10:31:11 <planetmaker> thus if the map you play pushes the cpu core the game runs on to 100%, you'll perceive a lag
10:31:25 <Alberth> there have been discussions about that in the forums, perhaps that gives you an idea of what is happening
10:32:18 <st6> ill check it out
10:38:19 <SmatZ> Chris_Booth: "All windows trunks on my screen hace this issue." does it mean stable versions don't have that problem? or - 1.0 was ok, but 1.1 has that problem?
10:38:57 <SmatZ> also, why did you set the severity to "critical"
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10:43:31 <V453000> SmatZ: it is _his_ screen so it is critical :P
10:43:38 <frosch123> i don't think Chris_Booth is complaining about something new. the colours are just hard to distinguish for small lines
10:43:53 <frosch123> it's not even about colour blindness :p
10:44:13 <frosch123> we could increase the width of the lines
10:44:32 <frosch123> (that is for that graphs; no idea for minimap)
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10:48:45 <DanMacK> Hey andy
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11:10:04 <andythenorth> hey DanMacK
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11:56:19 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r22288 /trunk/ (7 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Deduplicate Blitter_8bppBase::DrawLine() and Blitter_32bppBase::DrawLine() into Blitter::DrawLine().
11:56:56 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r22289 /trunk/projects/ (4 files): -Fix (r22288): Forgot project files.
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13:25:02 <frosch123> Chris_Booth: <- better?
13:41:53 <Chris_Booth> yes much better frosch123
13:42:32 <Chris_Booth> i like the second one best
13:44:10 <frosch123> err, the first one is unmodified trunk :p
13:44:52 <SmatZ> I totally overlooked the gray (?) company in the graph :)
13:45:43 <frosch123> imo gray is easier than the blueish one :)
13:50:38 <SmatZ> true :)
13:50:47 <SmatZ> maybe we should get back to the 8 companies limit
13:50:48 <confound> the second is better
13:50:56 <SmatZ> and choose only 8 well distinguishable colours :)
13:51:13 <Chris_Booth> yeah line wieght isn't a huge issue
13:51:25 <Chris_Booth> but when in chat and you have 2 yellow is annoying
13:51:27 <Chris_Booth> and confusing
13:53:27 <frosch123> for the chat we could put the company icon (?) in front of the message?
13:53:37 <frosch123> otoh, i thought coop has only one colour anyway :p
13:59:26 <Chris_Booth> yes it is frosch123 but when playing on other servers such as the welcome server on coop
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13:59:48 <Chris_Booth> when I choose orange and someone choose yellow we look the same
14:00:10 <frosch123> damn, i still make more money with 3 planes than 14 ais :s
14:01:58 <Chris_Booth> ais frosch123?
14:02:11 <frosch123> "AIs"
14:02:25 <frosch123> i need a graph with 15 of the 16 colours :p
14:02:33 <Chris_Booth> aaah I see
14:10:26 <frosch123>
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14:12:36 <frosch123> hmm, nah, bright is bad. it makes orange look like yellow
14:12:44 <frosch123> it does not match the colours in the legend
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14:24:48 <Cursarion> hi
14:25:05 <Cursarion> I have Fedora 12 and OpenTTD 1.0.3
14:25:38 <Cursarion> apparently this version of Fedora can't update stuff from repos anymore (or something). How should I update, and to what version if I want to get on 1.0.5 server?
14:26:00 <Cursarion> can a newer version client connect to an older version server?
14:26:03 <frosch123> if you want to join a server the versions need to match exactly
14:27:03 <frosch123> <- you can get old versions from there
14:27:07 <Cursarion> okay
14:27:08 <Cursarion> thanks
14:27:40 <frosch123> try the linux-generic ones
14:28:17 <ccfreak2k> frosch123, how about hilighting a particular line (perhaps by drawing a thicker line behind it) when the cursor is over any company on the key?
14:28:33 <frosch123> ccfreak2k: you can aswell toggle them by clicking
14:28:40 <Alberth> Cursarion: F12 is not maintained any more by Fedora
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14:48:05 <leanden> Howdy
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15:08:11 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r22290 /trunk/src/blitter/base.cpp: -Codechange: Somewhat deduplicate one line of code.
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16:16:04 <Eddi|zuHause> gnah, generic buffers is not groundtile agnostic...
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16:17:54 <st6> where does giant screenshot save to?
16:21:00 <glx> Cursarion: and you may want to use openttd 1.1.0 (latest stable release)
16:21:04 <DanMacK> OTTD folder in Mydocuments usually
16:21:47 <glx> good luck when opening a giant screensot :)
16:25:55 <Eddi|zuHause> it's usually fine for anything <= 256x256 ;)
16:27:04 <Eddi|zuHause> you usually get in trouble when the "raw" (uncompressed) image gets in regions of >2GB
16:29:41 <Eddi|zuHause> bäh... i seem to be too tired... the whole forum is just gibberish today...
16:30:46 <frosch123> how does you mood influence the content of the forums? :)
16:31:53 <Eddi|zuHause> dunno, kinda was expecting it was my fault :p
16:32:47 <frosch123> accepted. finally i have someone to blame when the forums turn bad
16:33:00 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: not the content, but my perception thereof.
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16:39:54 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r22291 /trunk/src/ (blitter/base.cpp blitter/base.hpp gfx.cpp gfx_func.h): -Add: a linewidth argument to GfxDrawLine() and Blitter::DrawLine().
16:40:18 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r22292 /trunk/src/graph_gui.cpp: -Change: Increase the linewidth in plots.
16:42:05 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: definitely one of those kind of days
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16:43:47 * andythenorth wonders why people need all these insanely big stations
16:43:53 <andythenorth> and huge queues of trains
16:43:55 <LordAro> moin all
16:43:55 <Cursarion> glx: for going to 1.0.5 server?
16:43:58 <Cursarion> maybe when the server updates
16:44:15 <confound> andythenorth: how big is 'insanely big'?
16:44:19 <glx> of course you need the same version
16:44:21 <andythenorth> dunno
16:44:23 <andythenorth> just big
16:44:36 <confound> do you think 6x6 is big?
16:44:53 <andythenorth> 7 platforms is big
16:44:56 <andythenorth> for a single industry
16:45:05 <andythenorth> and of little benefit
16:45:24 <confound> single primary industry?
16:45:32 <andythenorth> appears to be
16:45:38 <confound> 7x1? :)
16:45:44 <andythenorth> 7xn
16:45:50 <andythenorth> I can't be bothered to count :P
16:45:57 <andythenorth> ach
16:46:01 <Alberth> I do that to make sure all trains serving that industry have a platform
16:46:04 <andythenorth> it's a question of style I guess
16:46:30 <confound> I never end up with more than 3 for a primary industry
16:46:36 <andythenorth> I usually have 1
16:46:40 <confound> 4 if I send a supply train there
16:46:45 <confound> er, I meant 2 and 3, not 3 and 4
16:47:15 <Alberth> indeed, I normally have only a few trains waiting
16:47:25 <andythenorth> 2 platforms + escape depot for me
16:47:37 <andythenorth> it's enough to keep station rating up most of the time
16:47:39 <Alberth> it is just a safe guard that trains have a place when production decreases
16:47:46 <andythenorth> ah
16:47:53 * andythenorth never has production decrease ;)
16:48:03 <confound> yeah, 2 for filling + waiting, 3rd for supply
16:48:28 <Eddi|zuHause> i have 5 platforms at one industry right now (2 unloading, 3 loading), and 6 platforms covering 3 industries
16:48:55 <Eddi|zuHause> transfer stations tend to get huge
16:49:17 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: 2 unloading + 3 loading makes sense
16:49:27 <andythenorth> and 6 per 3 also
16:49:39 <andythenorth> hey ho
16:50:07 <andythenorth> for example, this strikes me as odd:
16:50:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i lied. it's now 7 for 4 industries...
16:51:14 <confound> andythenorth: which, the livestock loading?
16:51:20 <andythenorth> looks like it
16:51:26 <andythenorth> 7 platforms for one farm?
16:51:31 <confound> that might be two stations
16:51:33 <andythenorth> plus a huge 'escape yard'
16:51:52 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: if you compute platforms/industry, it gets better :)
16:52:00 <confound> yeah I have no idea what's going on there
16:52:12 <andythenorth> hmm
16:52:19 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: that's cheating, because one of the industries is a sink only.
16:52:49 * andythenorth finds that RVs and ships are much more efficient on space vs. rating vs. transported amount
16:53:14 * andythenorth is also now fed up of reports that FIRS is broken with Chill's patch
16:53:21 <andythenorth> what am I supposed to do about that? :P
16:53:31 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that's totally not true when you're not using HEQS and FISH :p
16:53:45 <Alberth> if only you could stack trains onto each other like ships :)
16:53:47 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: complain that the patch is broken
16:53:52 <andythenorth> well not using them would be like choosing to smoke bad crack
16:54:01 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: the patch is broken ;)
16:54:09 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it should get the cargo names which have TE_GOODS set, and not just assume it's called "goods"
16:55:21 <Alberth> andythenorth: ask a moderator to move the posts to Chillcore's patch thread :)
16:55:32 <andythenorth> that's where they are :)
16:55:38 <andythenorth> but I keep getting asked about it
16:55:49 <andythenorth> I have posted in that thread with eddi's answer
16:56:16 <andythenorth> does the game ship with some default trams?
16:56:40 <Eddi|zuHause> no
16:56:44 <andythenorth> should it?
16:56:48 <Eddi|zuHause> no
16:56:51 <andythenorth> ok
16:57:00 <andythenorth> next issue :)
16:57:29 * Eddi|zuHause considers implementing "scale industry production with daylength". but not today... someone remind me tomorrow.
16:57:37 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: which forum gibberish did you find?
16:57:58 <Eddi|zuHause> plenty
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16:58:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i think the suggestions forum was the worst...
16:58:41 <andythenorth> I usually regret going in there
16:58:48 <andythenorth> the problems forum even more so
17:03:27 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: suggestions forum is good, consider what would happen if all those users would post the suggestions elsewhere :p
17:04:07 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: i meant: the amount of gibberish is even higher than usual
17:05:55 <Alberth> after 'problems', 'suggestions' is the first form of participation :)
17:06:50 <Alberth> where you don't have such concrete things like in 'problems' :)
17:07:06 <DanMacK> I have a hard problem wading through the Development forum sometimes
17:08:40 <supermop> i like reading suggestions,
17:08:50 <supermop> rarely read general or problems
17:10:59 * Alberth mostly reads by scanning topic titles
17:12:55 <frosch123> supermop: but they repeat every month? so you can only enjoy them for one month in your life
17:14:09 <supermop> ocassionally someone has a different perspective on an idea,
17:14:21 <supermop> and there are a lot of new people in there
17:16:46 * DanMacK has to admit though, some of the suggestions are pretty silly
17:18:08 <DanMacK> comes to mind...
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17:38:59 <Ruudjah> I tried upgrading to 1.1.0. So I removed 1.05 from Ubuntu software center, downloaded the ubuntu 10.04 32bits .deb file and ran it. It opened up ubuntu sofwtare center, but it says "Dependency is not satisfiable: liblzma1 (>= 4.999.9beta) "
17:39:21 <Ruudjah> how to workaround?
17:39:40 <andythenorth> DanMacK: I liked that suggestion
17:39:50 <andythenorth> it's at least a creative hack on the game engine
17:39:59 <andythenorth> rather than yet another boring train nerd request :D
17:42:07 <DanMacK> lol, true
17:42:28 <Ruudjah> planetmaker: how is NML going along?
17:42:28 <andythenorth> why he wants it I can't fathom
17:42:38 * DanMacK pictures an F1 track as part of the future "Tourist" mod for FIRS
17:42:45 <DanMacK> called FIRST
17:43:09 <andythenorth> ho
17:43:13 <andythenorth> racetrack
17:43:16 <andythenorth> not a bad industry
17:43:28 <andythenorth> I have thought of numerous entirely 'other' industry chains
17:43:42 <andythenorth> a lifestyle / sports chain for example
17:43:54 <andythenorth> you would ship racehorses, f1 cars, sports teams
17:44:02 <andythenorth> burgers, merchandise
17:44:06 <andythenorth> bribes
17:44:21 <andythenorth> soft drinks, alcohol
17:44:24 <Mazur> Deutsche Bahn is going to run ICE3 trains to the UK.
17:44:41 <Mazur> I did not know that.
17:44:42 <andythenorth> 'we need tunnels under water' :P
17:45:23 <Mazur> Well, there are some tunnels in that direction, I believe they might utilise tose.
17:46:05 <Eddi|zuHause> Mazur: yes, they're trying to get the ICE3 approved for the Eurotunnel [where TGV/Eurostar has currently a monopoly]
17:47:40 <Mazur> Proposed trajectory through A'dam, nice. Would give me a fast connection through London.
17:47:44 <Mazur> to London
17:47:50 <Eddi|zuHause> "Peking's air is now 'crazy bad' quality after it got so bad it triggered an easter egg in the american embassy's measurement software"
17:50:05 <Eddi|zuHause> Mazur: i think it's still a few years to go.
17:50:10 <frosch123> Ruudjah: install liblzma resp. libxz
17:50:18 <Mazur> Of course.
17:50:32 <Mazur> Still, quite interesting.
17:50:50 <Eddi|zuHause> Mazur: part of the problem is that the requirement rules for trains through the eurotunnel are pretty much designed to only include the eurostar :p
17:51:29 <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. "train of 800m length must be passable from front to back". where every other train of this length in europe would usually consist of two separate units
17:52:02 <Ruudjah> sudo apt-get install liblzma -> unable to locate package liblzma
17:52:07 <Ruudjah> same for libxz
17:52:22 <Eddi|zuHause> Ruudjah: lzma2?
17:52:25 <andythenorth> randomising cc use on stations - means making some custom recolor sprites?
17:53:16 <frosch123> the debian package is called liblzma2
17:53:18 <Ruudjah> lzma2 same
17:54:27 <Ruudjah> liblzma2 -> liblzma2 is already the newest version.
17:54:50 <Ruudjah> so openttd points to liblzma1, and I have liblzma2
17:55:02 <Eddi|zuHause> Ruudjah: openttd needs liblzma2
17:55:03 <Ruudjah> liblzma1 not in apt repo
17:55:05 <Mazur> Well, the French and English wanted to have an easy monopoly on the tunnel, I suppose.
17:55:16 <Eddi|zuHause> liblzma1 is outdated/incompatible
17:55:32 <frosch123> afaik the ubuntu binaries are build on a ubuntu vm, so i am suprised it does not have the needed librarise
17:55:33 <Mazur> It will eventually bite them in the back.
17:55:42 <Ruudjah> Eddi|zuHause: Ubuntu software center says: "Dependency is not satisfiable: liblzma1 (>= 4.999.9beta) " when opening the 32bit ubuntu 1.1.0 deb
17:56:03 <Eddi|zuHause> Ruudjah: that looks like a bug
17:56:27 <planetmaker> Ruudjah: NML is working mostly fine. But it has not yet full coverage of all features
17:56:51 <planetmaker> but it's being worked on. Sometimes more, sometimes less
17:56:56 <planetmaker> good evening also :-)
17:57:01 <Ruudjah> :)
17:57:31 <Eddi|zuHause> Ruudjah: you should probably report that to someone who is interested.
17:57:39 <Ruudjah> what?
17:57:44 <Eddi|zuHause> let's call him "wayne" :p
17:58:06 <frosch123> Ruudjah: well, try the linux-generic one then
17:58:16 <frosch123> it seems to statically link liblzma
17:59:06 <frosch123> (at least ldd does not list it)
17:59:35 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, linux-generic should statically link most of the things
18:00:06 <Ruudjah> ah, that seems to work, it does not have an installer though :(
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18:01:10 <Ruudjah> actually that doesnt work at all
18:01:23 <Ruudjah> I unzipped it into a folder, double clicked openttd but nothing happens
18:02:50 <LordAro> Terkhen: (mingw) it would appear that the zlib installation is failing
18:03:26 <Ruudjah> well
18:03:44 <Ruudjah> no wonder I get "Dependency is not satisfiable: liblzma1 (>= 4.999.9beta) ", i downloaded 10.04 while I ave 10.10
18:03:51 <Ruudjah> 10.10 works as expected
18:04:07 <Ruudjah> generic doesnt though
18:06:17 <supermop> how do trees know to clump together by species in ottd?
18:06:37 <supermop> do they have some sort of callback to check neighboring trees?
18:07:53 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: afair tree growth is usually by "plant same species in adjacent tile", in some rarer instances "place random tree in random tile"
18:08:15 <Eddi|zuHause> except in rainforest, then the latter version dominates
18:08:35 <supermop> ok
18:08:56 <supermop> so its not just in my head, there is a tendency for trees to clump
18:09:02 <Eddi|zuHause> yes.
18:09:23 <supermop> there can be 2 or 4 trees per tile?
18:09:38 <Eddi|zuHause> i think up to 5
18:10:09 <supermop> can there me more than one of same species in same tile?
18:10:41 <supermop> i am trying to think out the practicality of tall grass or reeds growing as a type of tree
18:10:48 <Eddi|zuHause> there is only one species stored, the rest is by some pseudo-random calculation
18:11:16 <supermop> trees don't care about altitude or slope?
18:11:26 <Eddi|zuHause> no, the "uneven" territory has nothing to do with trees
18:11:55 <supermop> so no way to have hills prefer pines, and lowlands prefer deciduous
18:12:01 <Eddi|zuHause> there's a "no tree growths above heightlevel X" patch around
18:12:17 <supermop> but it is one treeline for all species
18:12:21 <frosch123> supermop: topic climate does that
18:12:25 <frosch123> *tropic
18:12:36 <supermop> yeah?
18:12:40 <supermop> ive never played it
18:12:48 <frosch123> different trees in normal land, and rainforest
18:13:10 <supermop> but there the tiles have a different additional property
18:13:30 <supermop> so to implement that for 'hills'
18:13:41 <frosch123> well, normal land is near the see, rainforest is in hills
18:13:45 <frosch123> *sea
18:13:55 <supermop> you would need a 'high altitude' terrain type
18:14:09 <supermop> that prefers conifers
18:14:32 <supermop> and maybe a 'mountain' type that prefers no vegetation
18:14:47 <supermop> maybe wildflowers
18:14:51 <__ln__>
18:16:16 <Terkhen> LordAro: with what error?
18:16:33 <Markk> __ln__: :D
18:18:01 <LordAro> Terkhen:
18:18:47 <Terkhen> I don't remember its exact output but that does not look like an error to me
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18:22:06 <Terkhen> my guess is that you are missing the new step at the beginning of Setting up MSYS, anyways
18:23:40 <LordAro> oh yes, i ticked MSYS Basic System and MinGW Developer Tools by accident...
18:23:57 <LordAro> i seemed to be going ok... until that point :)
18:24:19 <LordAro> is there an easy way of removing those items?
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18:25:55 <Terkhen> not that I know
18:27:02 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: now make the same with a PNG :p
18:27:10 <LordAro> meh... oh well, my bad :)
18:33:44 <LordAro> Terkhen: i'm getting errors about not being able to find some 'catalogues', is this known?
18:34:23 <Terkhen> you will have to be more specific, I don't know what are you referring to
18:38:35 <LordAro> on first installation, i selected 'download latest package catalogues' (or something like that) and it wasn't able to find some of them. it was probably related to that
18:42:10 <Terkhen> the tutorial specifically says: Select "Use pre-packaged repository catalogues".
18:42:43 <LordAro> well i was trying to be clever be going for 'latest'... :L
18:46:55 <LordAro> Terkhen: where is the 'executable' for mingw? the installation seems to have failed with the start menu icon...
18:56:33 <Terkhen> why should that fail at all?
18:56:58 <Terkhen> if the icon is not present you probably did not install MSYS
18:57:05 <Terkhen> "Select C++ Compiler and MSYS Basic System as optional components."
18:57:15 <Terkhen> please follow the tutorial literally
18:57:55 <planetmaker> :-)
18:58:14 <LordAro> damnation...
18:59:26 <LordAro> i've just made one of the most basic mistakes... :)
19:05:52 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i think i just had a genious thought, but probably nobody is going to notice...
19:15:31 <LordAro> Terkhen: i'm still getting the same zlib error...
19:18:21 <supermop> is that a challenge, eddi?
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19:39:45 <DanMacK> Hey Lakie
19:40:15 <Lakie> Hi DanMacK
19:47:14 <__ln__> anyone been watching "The Event"?
19:48:18 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: only the first half of the season so far...
19:48:48 <glx> LordAro: what's the error ? (paste expired it seems)
19:48:55 <__ln__> quite an addictive series
19:48:58 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: if you mean "should i start watching this", then probably: "don't bother"
19:49:23 <__ln__> already started :)
19:49:24 <Eddi|zuHause> it's unlikely to survive the season IMO
19:50:24 <__ln__> so they say
19:51:25 <Eddi|zuHause> if enough people are saying that, it tends to become truth
19:55:39 <__ln__> did you ever watch "the 4400", which was remotely similar in theme?
20:04:12 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah
20:04:29 <Eddi|zuHause> also a series that went from us well before its time.
20:04:47 <Eddi|zuHause> people call it "the summer glau curse" :p
20:06:00 <Eddi|zuHause> series where summer glau had a significant part: firefly, the 4400, terminator, the cape
20:06:11 <__ln__> imho the 4400 ended up being very dull in the long run, the big plot not advancing nearly at all.
20:06:19 <Eddi|zuHause> series that got canceled prematurely: firefly, the 4400, terminator, the cape
20:07:05 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: hmm... i didn't have that impression...
20:07:57 <glx> hmm I don't remember summer glau in the 4400
20:07:59 *** LordAro has quit IRC
20:08:09 <__ln__> i don't remember when i stopped watching it, but apparently before summer glau appeared
20:08:10 <Eddi|zuHause> glx: the crazy girl
20:08:28 <__ln__> or was she there from the start?
20:08:35 <glx> but she's in dollhouse
20:08:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i think she appeard beginning of season 2, and then again during season 4
20:08:56 <Eddi|zuHause> glx: oh right, i forgot. but that's only a minor role ;)
20:09:21 <Eddi|zuHause> glx: the scary thing is, she appeared in The Big Bang Theory as well :p
20:09:45 <Eddi|zuHause> glx: but dollhouse was doomed way before she appeared
20:10:08 <glx> yeah the serie is too complicated for US
20:33:32 <xQR> any idea why my map is full of industries since the upgrade from 1.0.5 to 1.1.0? i still got number_industries = 0 as before
20:36:16 <xQR> is it deprecated and now overriden by industry_density? because i just noticed that one is set to 5 o0
20:36:43 <Yexo> number_industries is not a valid setting in 1.1 / trunk
20:36:46 <frosch123> that setting changed, yes, there are now more options
20:36:47 <Yexo> industry_density is
20:36:50 <xQR> ah great
20:36:53 <xQR> thx
20:37:08 <Wolf01> 'night
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21:02:57 <DanMacK> Dollhouse season 1 was pretty good, season 2 was a bit more, odd
21:02:57 <orudge> oh hey, it's DabuYu
21:02:57 <orudge> erm
21:02:57 <orudge> DanMacK
21:02:57 <orudge> hiding away :p
21:02:59 *** dfox has joined #openttd
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21:04:04 <DanMacK> Hey Owen, LTNS
21:04:59 <orudge> How's it going? And not lurking in #tycoon any more?
21:13:11 *** Ivan has joined #openttd
21:13:35 <Ivan> Sup? I was looking for a bit of help with installing openttd on my linux machine running Mint 10
21:14:27 <Ivan> I'm not quite sure what to do with ./configure.
21:14:40 <Yexo> are you planning to compile your own binary?
21:14:46 <Ivan> Yes.
21:14:56 <Yexo> do you already have a source checkout?
21:14:57 <Ivan> I've got it extracted. but ./configure isn't working.
21:15:05 <Ivan> Got the source from the main website.
21:15:11 <Yexo> "isn't working" is not really helpful, what error message does it give?
21:15:22 <Ivan> It just says it's not a valid command.
21:15:35 <Yexo> is your working directory correct?
21:15:44 <Ivan> I type ./configure (dir containing openttd)
21:16:11 <Yexo> which version did you download?
21:16:20 <Ivan> The ubuntu generic i686
21:16:28 <Ivan> as I am not sure which one to dl for Mint 10
21:16:31 <Yexo> so you downloaded a binary, not a source package
21:16:46 <Ivan> Oh, that's what it was? I'm a bit new to Linux.
21:17:11 <Yexo> in the dropdown on the download page select "openttd-{version}-source"
21:17:30 <Ivan> Well would you look at that...
21:17:59 <Ivan> So, what's the difference between a binary and a source?
21:18:23 <Yexo> the source code is what you edit when you modify the program
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21:18:38 <Ivan> Ah.
21:18:45 <Yexo> however since computers can't just run source code, you have to compile it into a program first
21:18:52 <Ivan> Yeah, I know that much.
21:18:52 <Yexo> the result of compilation is called a binary
21:18:56 <Ivan> I understand what the source is
21:19:02 <Ivan> I don't understand what a binary is.
21:19:04 <Ivan> Ah
21:19:07 <Ivan> so it's precompiled.
21:19:10 <Yexo> yes
21:19:35 <Ivan> So, ./configure now throws "no such directory or file"
21:20:04 <Yexo> did you extract the source package and are you in the correct directory?
21:20:10 <Ivan> Does it need to be run from within the openttd-1.1.0 dir?
21:20:14 <Yexo> yes
21:20:20 <Ivan> Ok, wasn't sure.
21:20:24 <Ivan> Yeah, it's working now.
21:20:30 <Yexo> "./configure" means "run the program called "configure" in the current directory
21:20:42 <Ivan> Ah.
21:21:44 <frosch123> read the output of configure carefully. i.e. whether it complains about missing libraries
21:21:52 <frosch123> like sdl, lzma2 and such
21:22:09 <Ivan> Says that there are no video driver development files.
21:22:28 <Yexo> you'll need to install sdl-dev or whatever it's called in mint
21:22:37 <Ivan> Which is odd that I'm missing something, because the version of openttd from the software center runs fine
21:22:55 <Yexo> you need extra packages for compiling that you don't need when just running the program
21:23:01 <Ivan> Ah.
21:23:15 <frosch123> hmm, btw. did you try the precompiled debian squeeze binary?
21:23:17 <Yexo> if you don't care about compiling you could download the "generic linux binary" and just run that
21:23:33 <Ivan> Is there any disadvantage to doing so?
21:23:41 <Yexo> no
21:23:48 <Ivan> Ok!
21:23:55 <Yexo> unless you want to start editing the source, in which case you do need to compile yourself
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21:25:17 <Ivan> So, what would I do with the .tar I Dl'd?
21:25:32 <Yexo> extract somewhere in your home directory
21:26:11 <Ivan> Done.
21:26:17 <Yexo> after that just run "bin/openttd" or "./openttd" from within the new directory. (I'm not sure which is correct since I didn't check the format of the tar files)
21:27:17 <Alberth> 'make run' :)
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21:30:44 <Ivan> Thanks, guys.
21:30:44 <Alberth> Ivan: many distros have split all packages in a part you only need to run the code (which get installed by default), and a part (with a -dev suffix in the name or so, that are not installed by default) you need when you want to compile new programs
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21:31:04 <Alberth> that's why you 'miss' packages
21:31:39 <Ivan> Alright, I think I understand. So dependencies for a binary =/= dependencies for compiling something from source.
21:31:48 <Yexo> correct
21:31:57 <Alberth> they do exist, they are just not installed by default, as many users don't compile themselves
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21:33:06 <Ivan> So, now it says I'm missing a graphics library. Do I need to DL opengfx?
21:33:36 <Yexo> if openttd is telling you you miss a base graphics set, than yes
21:34:47 <xQR> am i missing something or is it normal that it wants such a graphics set even when compiled with enable_dedicated="1"?
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21:35:29 <Alberth> it is normal
21:35:32 <Ivan> How would you recommend I go about installing opengfx?
21:35:38 <xQR> ok
21:35:39 <Alberth> it contains more than just graphics
21:36:11 <Yexo> Ivan: download (the binary file)
21:36:18 <Yexo> extract in ~/.openttd/data/
21:37:25 <LordAro> how would you run configure when you can't do './configure'?
21:38:00 <Yexo> LordAro: what are you talking about?
21:38:06 <Alberth> sh configure
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21:39:27 <LordAro> i'm trying to run ./configure on my (slightly messed up) portable mingw and it's saying: H:\OpenTTD-Main\OpenTTD Source\trunk>./configure
21:39:27 <LordAro> '.' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
21:39:27 <LordAro> operable program or batch file.
21:39:43 <__ln__> you're doing it wrong
21:41:37 <LordAro> Alberth: that comes up with this:
21:42:22 <Alberth> haha! NT BASH :D
21:42:29 <xQR> mh wasn't there a more central place you could put the opengfx data? i think i did that on my server
21:42:52 <Alberth> please read the readme for such answers
21:42:55 <xQR> ah found it: /usr/share/games/openttd/data/opengfx
21:43:20 <Yexo> xQR: but that requires root privileges and I didn't want to make it anymore difficult for him
21:43:31 <LordAro> Alberth: i did wonder about that... have i downloaded the wrong win32 binary? (please note, i'm desparately trying not to do something stupid :) )
21:43:40 <Yexo> LordAro: it looks more than "slightly" messed up
21:43:51 <xQR> you're right :)
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21:44:33 <Alberth> LordAro: I stay away from all windows stuff as far as possible
21:44:58 <LordAro> good move :)
21:47:33 <planetmaker> except windows within openttd? ;-)
21:47:42 * planetmaker quickly hides
21:47:54 * LordAro presses the like button
21:48:21 <xQR> he just plays by using console commands
21:48:56 <Alberth> actually, xterm, hg, and gvim are my main play-tools :)
21:48:57 <planetmaker> xQR: you have one guess who rewrote OpenTTD's gui code ;-)
21:49:06 <xQR> haha
21:49:46 <xQR> LordAro did you check the readme? i don't see anything about "configure" when compiling under windows
21:49:54 <xQR> it refers you to read the make file
21:50:07 <xQR> and that says something like # Usage: make -f Makefile.msvc PLATFORM=[Win32|x64]
21:50:24 <LordAro> i've compiled before...
21:50:37 <Yexo> xQR: when compiling under mingw you do need ./configure
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21:51:12 <xQR> hmkay
21:52:20 <xQR> LordAro where did you type this command? it seems like you're in a dos prompt there
21:52:34 <xQR> and not in an environment where you could execute linux shell scripts
21:52:50 <xQR> that's why it complains about the syntax - you can't run a script with ./script in a dos prompt
21:53:02 <LordAro> correct - mingw emulates unix
21:53:08 <Alberth> LordAro: does bash configure do something useful?
21:53:39 <xQR> yes but the message you got is the message i get from windows when i open a "cmd" box and type such a command there
21:53:46 <xQR> so you're not in an emulated unix there
21:54:30 <LordAro> no, i'm in a semi modified version for portable use
21:54:36 <LordAro> ...that doesn't work very well
21:55:11 <Alberth> xQR: it is always fun, new users using the hardest possible platform to compile
21:55:22 <xQR> yes, i wondered about that too
21:55:24 <planetmaker> :-D
21:55:31 <LordAro> Alberth: the same except with
21:55:32 <LordAro> bash: warning: could not find /tmp, please create!
21:55:32 <LordAro> : No such file or directory
21:55:34 <xQR> under windows i did it with visual c++
21:55:38 <xQR> works a lot better and is easier
21:55:46 <Eddi|zuHause> @base 10 16 27
21:55:46 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 1B
21:55:48 <xQR> and in plain linux it's easy anyway
21:56:00 <LordAro> xQR: no admin access :(
21:56:07 <planetmaker> cross compiling from linux to windows is somewhat easier than setting up a native compile environment on windows
21:56:11 <xQR> mhh ok that sucks
21:56:18 <LordAro> ikr
21:56:57 <xQR> well /tmp is a system directory that is always supposed to be there
21:57:02 <xQR> if it is not, do what the message says and create it ;)
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22:00:42 <LordAro|2> xQR: but i have no idea where, me being on my usb stick and all :)
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22:00:54 <LordAro|2> bastard router...
22:01:23 <xQR> directly in root
22:01:28 <xQR> top level of directories
22:01:38 <xQR> like you would have C:\tmp in windows
22:01:54 <LordAro|2> i'll give it a go...
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22:01:58 <xQR> mkdir tmp
22:03:03 <Alberth> TMPDIR If set, Bash uses its value as the name of a directory in which Bash creates temporary files for the shell’s use. <-- My man page says you can have a $TEMPDIR to point to your /tmp directory
22:03:16 <Alberth> s/TEMP/TMP/
22:03:49 <LordAro|2> and where can i set that?
22:03:58 <Alberth> in the shell :)
22:04:13 <xQR> yeah but imho it's easier to create a directory than setting an environment variable when you're not familar with that stuff
22:04:17 <Alberth> TMPDIR="C:/tmp"
22:04:56 <Alberth> export TMPDIR (possibly not needed, but it does not hurt either)
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22:05:51 <Alberth> xQR: except he might not be able to create the tmp dir at the default place
22:06:04 <LordAro> Alberth: 'in the shell'?
22:06:14 <xQR> that would be bad :/
22:06:26 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
22:06:34 <Alberth> xQR: that's what 'no admin rights' means, isn't it?
22:06:47 <LordAro> yup... :/
22:08:06 <Alberth> LordAro: as in start the shell, type the command
22:10:48 <LordAro> how old is bash 2.03?
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22:13:11 <frosch123> at least 10
22:13:16 <Alberth> 3.2 stable released 2006-11-11 <-- from Gnu :)
22:13:27 <xQR> dunno, i thought mingw is kind of a virtual environment
22:13:39 <xQR> so its root would be in reality i a lower level of the file system
22:13:43 <xQR> on that usb stick or wherever
22:13:51 <LordAro> lol... can anybody else find a newer win32 version of bash
22:13:52 <xQR> *in
22:14:00 <frosch123> LordAro: looks like about july 1999
22:14:09 <xQR> haha nostalgia <3
22:14:37 <LordAro> xQR: mingw is really supposed to be with msys, which comes with bash etc, but a portable version of that hasn't been released :(
22:20:03 <LordAro> anyway, night all
22:22:41 <xQR> nighties
22:23:23 <Terkhen> good night
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22:24:59 <Eddi|zuHause> small brain teaser: if an ICE passes a station at high speed, what is the formular to calculate its speed in km/h out of the time you can hear it in seconds?
22:25:11 <Eddi|zuHause> -r
22:28:14 <__ln__> isn't there one unknown too many?
22:28:26 <xQR> length of the train ^^
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22:28:42 <xQR> that's like "i got X, tell me what's Y?"
22:28:43 <xQR> :P
22:29:15 <planetmaker> g'night
22:29:39 <xQR> well if the train is one kilometre long and it needs an hour to pass you know it was running 1 km/h :)
22:29:51 <xQR> n8 planetmaker
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22:31:48 <supermop> i wonder if they are still leasing capsules in nakagin, or if the co-op that owns it is discouraging further investment,
22:32:03 <supermop> so they can tear it down to build a new tower on the site
22:32:36 <supermop> actually i'd prefer to just buy a berth on one of the towers and supply a new capsule
22:35:03 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: assume an ideal ICE that is spherical and has radius 0 :)
22:35:58 * Eddi|zuHause feels like i just said: "i have an idea, but we need spherical chickens"
22:36:41 <supermop> how many first class seats on that 0-radius spherical ice?
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