IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-03-15
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00:06:54 <SmatZ> hmm @ FS#4553 ... "I cannot add or delete any NewGRF and if I'm using ECS"
00:07:01 <SmatZ> I remember seeing that somewhere
00:07:14 <SmatZ> but I can't find that at tt-forums anymore... maybe it was here?
00:07:35 <SmatZ> but I think he was explained it has nothing to do with ECS...
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00:28:22 <Wolf01> 'night
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00:47:15 <confound> FIRS is pretty fun.
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06:59:26 <planetmaker> moin
07:01:10 <Terkhen> good morning
07:05:26 <planetmaker> hm.... they got a broken containment vessel, dangerous radiation levels and wind in Tokyo directions :S
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07:20:38 <Terkhen> :(
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09:43:22 <Wolf01> hello
09:43:30 <peter1138> Hi
09:51:46 <Terkhen> hi peter1138 and Wolf01
09:56:03 <fjb> Moin
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10:32:32 <dihedral> \o/ attacks on a clients server ....
10:32:34 <dihedral> DDOS ...
10:32:36 <dihedral> grrr
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10:59:25 <pikka> what the
11:01:41 <pikka> I'm on a bus
11:06:33 <Vikthor> #Another one rides the bus. Another one rides the bus. And another one comes on, and another one comes on. Another one rides the bus. :)
11:09:26 <peter1138> That doesn't fix.
11:09:28 <peter1138> *fit
11:10:35 <dihedral> no, not really
11:11:03 <Mazur> Busje komt zo, busje komt zo, busje komt zo, busje komt zo...
11:12:12 <Vikthor> It doesn't? :(
11:13:11 <Mazur> "Comes on" should be one syllable.
11:13:39 <peter1138> "And another comes on" or "And another one's on"
11:16:56 <Vikthor> Oh, right
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11:54:08 <pikka> quite
11:56:13 <pikka> and that was odd
11:56:48 <pikka> the things you see on night shift...
11:58:17 <confound> heh
11:59:11 <pikka> some random people liked my hat and wanted to take a photo with me
12:00:24 <pikka> it is a pretty nice hat admittedly
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12:57:14 <andythenorth> gah the ship pathfinder sucks :P
12:57:25 <andythenorth> it's having a lot of trouble routing past industries at sea
12:57:38 <andythenorth> a bouy on every tile might help :P
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13:10:32 <Belugas> hello
13:11:36 <Ammler> invisible ship routes :-)
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13:28:49 * andythenorth has idea
13:28:55 <pikka> invisible sandvich
13:28:58 <andythenorth> ho
13:29:09 <andythenorth> mr. bird
13:29:13 <andythenorth> my sandwich is visible
13:29:15 <andythenorth> I am eating it
13:29:31 <andythenorth> can't you see it?
13:29:31 * pikka is home now, might as well stop ircing on my phone
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13:30:25 <Pikka> zume
13:30:35 <V453000> hi Pikka :p
13:30:41 <Pikka> no I do not see your sandvich
13:30:41 <andythenorth> pikka: I have played with this UKRS2 thing...
13:30:45 <Pikka> therefore, it is invisible
13:30:47 <andythenorth> must be invisible
13:30:48 <Pikka> oh?
13:30:56 <andythenorth> it is good
13:31:01 <V453000> I just wanted to ask about UKRS2 ... are there some fast cargo engines planned? :)
13:31:08 <andythenorth> they are fast :o
13:31:17 <Pikka> fast cargo engines like what, V453000?
13:31:36 <V453000> like GEC91 from UKRS, which is express only now
13:31:43 <V453000> or even the wardales
13:32:10 <andythenorth> but the wagon speed limits make that pointless no?
13:32:20 <V453000> wagon speed limits are stupid
13:32:25 <Pikka> not everyone plays with wagon speed limits andythenorth
13:32:32 * planetmaker doesn't
13:33:12 <andythenorth> ho
13:33:19 <andythenorth> people play differently to me :o
13:33:23 <Pikka> I think people who don't are strange and aren't playing the set as designed, but I'm not going to force it on them unlike some people *cough*canset*cough*
13:33:40 <V453000> yes, makes canset quite unusable :(
13:33:45 <andythenorth> I played 1870-2010 so far
13:33:48 <andythenorth> it's fun
13:34:02 <andythenorth> I had to turn freight weight multiplier down, I was getting killed
13:34:11 <Pikka> ho ho
13:34:20 <V453000> the problem with wagon speed limits is that there is no other way than splitting traffic into separate networks - which sucks
13:34:34 <andythenorth> pikka: do you use a freight multiplier in your games?
13:34:44 <Pikka> yep, usually 5
13:34:50 <andythenorth> I use 6
13:35:00 <V453000> Pikka: actually, UKRS is _far_ more playable without wagon speed limits
13:35:10 <Sacro> what!? I have a 66 sturggling now
13:35:21 <Sacro> it'll never cope with freight multiplyer
13:35:26 <andythenorth> multiplier is 4 in my current game :)
13:35:26 <Sacro> Pikka: we need moar UKRS :D#
13:35:39 <V453000> UKRS actually is the best set without it. With the speed limits, it is just a normal set to me
13:35:50 <Pikka> Sacro: working on something else at the moment I'm afraid
13:35:53 <Sacro> I like wagon limits
13:35:54 <andythenorth> he
13:35:57 <Sacro> Pikka: aww :(
13:36:12 <Sacro> it needs 4th rail trains now
13:36:14 <Pikka> hoping to reveal that in a few weeks, then back to the UKRSes
13:36:19 <Sacro> some nice tube stock
13:36:27 <andythenorth> pikka: the only feedback I have is that after 1998, every freight train gets a shed :P
13:36:32 <Pikka> someone drew a whole load of tube stock for the addon set
13:36:46 <andythenorth> how about that really ugly thing they've introduced this year?
13:36:52 <Pikka> the 70?
13:36:56 <andythenorth> yes
13:37:03 <andythenorth> they dropped one in newport docks and broke it
13:37:05 <Pikka> it's a possibility
13:37:21 <andythenorth> I think I miss a class 67 as well
13:37:24 <andythenorth> I dunno
13:37:43 <andythenorth> I mostly get bored by about 2010 anyway
13:37:47 <Pikka> that's pretty much how I feel too about the 67
13:37:57 <Pikka> but it'll be in either the main set or the addon set, one way or another
13:37:57 <andythenorth> playing in the future is a bit weird for me
13:39:02 <andythenorth> the add-ons are parked behind 'the other thing' ?
13:39:25 <Pikka> behind the other thing and behind UKRS2 itself
13:39:27 <andythenorth> ah
13:39:31 <Pikka> hmmm
13:39:40 <andythenorth> I wondered about coding some, but I guess you have your own way of doing things....
13:39:55 <andythenorth> I have enough to do also :P
13:39:59 <Pikka> hehe
13:40:02 <planetmaker> ho ho. Did I hear correctly? Another new surprise set by Pikka ? :-)
13:40:21 <Pikka> indeed!
13:40:26 * planetmaker waves also 'hello' :-)
13:40:31 <andythenorth> hi planetmaker
13:40:32 <Pikka> I'm trying to force myself to a deadline too! lol
13:40:38 <Pikka> hello also planetmaker
13:40:38 <andythenorth> a very appropriate one
13:40:50 <Pikka> april 1st...
13:40:54 <planetmaker> ho, deadlines? Don't work yourself to death on those ;-) Would be a shame ;-)
13:40:59 <andythenorth> my baby was supposed to be born on April 1st
13:41:04 <andythenorth> his joke was to arrive on Feb 12th
13:41:09 <Pikka> oops
13:41:09 <planetmaker> uh
13:41:33 <andythenorth> pikka: I think I screwed up the sprite positioning on monster box
13:41:39 <andythenorth> there is an epidemic of white lines
13:41:47 <Pikka> possibly
13:41:51 <Pikka> I shall look into it
13:41:59 <Pikka> I probably just cut them wrongly
13:42:16 <Pikka> it will not be difficult to fix
13:42:54 <andythenorth> cargo classes remain there usual exciting and bizarre selves
13:43:01 <andythenorth> FIRS fish can travel by polybulk :)
13:43:07 <andythenorth> and so can wool
13:43:11 <Pikka> ooh
13:43:37 <andythenorth> I am past trying to perfect those :P
13:43:46 <andythenorth> not only is it (a) hard but (b) players disagree
13:44:01 <andythenorth> I'm leaving it up to set authors and not making any more changes FIRS side without a reason :D
13:44:05 <Pikka> :P
13:44:13 <Pikka> well, let me see what polybulk can carry
13:44:53 <Pikka> 28 80 02 29 01 04 1D 40 00 0C 04
13:45:35 <Pikka> 80 02 is refrigerated + covered... hmm yes
13:46:10 <Pikka> 01 04 is passengers or oversized
13:46:22 <andythenorth> the open / hopper wagons can't carry scrap metal either which is all wrong, but scrap metal has been a painful argument that I'm bored of :P
13:46:29 <Sacro> yeah, would be nice to have 67 70
13:46:32 <Pikka> :P
13:46:39 <Sacro> perhaps 37 and 47s too
13:46:46 <Sacro> and a 390!
13:46:48 <Sacro> er
13:46:50 <Sacro> 395
13:46:50 <andythenorth> there are 37s and 47s
13:46:54 <Sacro> are there?
13:46:54 <andythenorth> :P
13:46:56 <Sacro> oops
13:47:02 <andythenorth> in my game there are :)
13:47:04 <Sacro> well, javelins would be nice
13:47:15 <Pikka> they're planned
13:47:36 <andythenorth> I think it's well balanced without too much stuff
13:47:42 <andythenorth> too much stuff is a headache
13:47:56 <Pikka> yes
13:48:12 <Pikka> that's why the secret set only has 3 locomotives! \o/
13:48:15 <andythenorth> in UKRS 1 did MGR hopper have a hood if refitted to clay?
13:48:27 <Pikka> I think so, I don't remember
13:48:36 <andythenorth> was a nice touch if so
13:48:42 <Sacro> hmm, i'd like some faster passenger stock
13:48:57 <andythenorth> High-Speed Carriage?
13:49:04 <andythenorth> 140mph
13:49:12 <Sacro> well, unlimted speed
13:49:16 <Pikka> faster than 140mph?
13:49:19 <Sacro> 186mph
13:49:29 <Pikka> oh, you want eurostars
13:49:34 <Pikka> har har
13:49:41 <Pikka> no eurostars for you!
13:49:46 <Sacro> no, 395
13:49:53 <Sacro>
13:49:53 <Pikka> 395 goes 140
13:50:03 <Sacro> oh, true
13:50:07 <Sacro> yeah, EMU 140
13:50:12 <Sacro> as opposed to EMU 186
13:50:16 <Pikka> and like I said, it's planned for inclusion
13:50:19 <__ln__> what's the channel policy about units? imperial or SI?
13:50:30 <Sacro> hmm, wnoder if they can do 100mph on 3rd rail
13:50:32 <Pikka> and the 91 does 140mph, and it's already in
13:50:36 <Sacro> __ln__: yes, one orw the other
13:50:41 <Pikka> SI
13:50:49 <Pikka> I demand everyone speak in m/s from now on!
13:51:13 <Sacro> 2′2′+Bo′Bo′+Bo′Bo′+Bo′Bo′+Bo′Bo′+2′2′
13:51:43 <__ln__> Pikka: i demand yards/fortnight
13:52:02 <planetmaker> hm, no Eurostars? :-(
13:52:23 <Pikka> nope
13:53:12 <andythenorth> pikka: realistic liveries is done nice
13:53:18 <andythenorth> ;)
13:53:29 <Pikka> I think it works quite well
13:53:33 <planetmaker> __ln__, and power in electron volts / fortnight
13:53:39 <andythenorth> any comments on the cartic 4? I think it sucks, but mr MacKellar liked it
13:53:57 <Pikka> I thought it looked good so far
13:54:06 <Pikka> the diagonals and the loaded versions will be the test
13:54:17 <andythenorth> I did the diagonals
13:54:21 <Pikka> oh
13:54:22 <Pikka> yeah
13:54:37 <Pikka> well, whatever it was I saw it looked good!
13:54:42 <andythenorth> fanks
13:55:05 * andythenorth ponders something for heavy equipment
13:55:10 <andythenorth> warwell?
13:55:12 <andythenorth> comtic?
13:55:22 <andythenorth> weltrol?
13:55:27 <Pikka> D:
13:55:42 <andythenorth> no like?
13:57:10 <Pikka> didn't say that
13:57:34 <Pikka> I actually had a well wagon on the list for UKRS2
13:58:13 <planetmaker> but...?
13:58:22 <andythenorth> trestrol :D
13:58:33 <Pikka> but I couldn't be arsed drawing it
13:59:01 <planetmaker> :-P
13:59:14 <planetmaker> that's a good enough reason :-)
14:07:06 <andythenorth> pikka: I might draw one
14:07:13 <andythenorth> it's probably an easy enough shape
14:07:18 <andythenorth> or a real pain in the arse
14:07:19 <Pikka> probably!
14:07:20 <andythenorth> one of those
14:08:09 <andythenorth> I'll probably orient it towards FIRS and draw one with quite a low capacity...
14:08:23 <andythenorth> maybe a lowmac
14:10:14 <andythenorth> hah
14:10:23 <andythenorth> a lowmac is just a rectangle with slopey bits
14:13:05 <Pikka> everything is just a rectangle with slopey bits
14:14:04 * andythenorth is just a rectangle with slopey bits
14:14:15 <andythenorth> nfo is just a rectangle with slopery bits
14:14:30 <andythenorth> my invisible sandwich is just a rectangle with slopery bits
14:24:34 <Pikka> largely
14:25:00 <Pikka> but mostly I was talking about TT train vehicles
14:25:13 * andythenorth thinks of other insightful UKRS 2 feedback
14:25:15 <andythenorth> hmm
14:25:19 <andythenorth> no I don't have any ;)
14:27:25 <andythenorth> it's very hard btw
14:27:38 <andythenorth> at least, with the combination of settings for my current game, it's hard
14:27:43 <andythenorth> which is fun
14:29:16 <Pikka> yup
14:30:23 * andythenorth does ponder
14:30:33 <andythenorth> there is no newgrf town growth
14:30:42 <andythenorth> so how about 'every house is an industry'?
14:30:46 <andythenorth> hmm
14:30:56 <andythenorth> cargo is only delivered to one industry in catchment
14:31:07 <andythenorth> how about 'neighbourhoods are industries'
14:31:11 <Yexo> that'd really slow down the game
14:31:17 <andythenorth> residential neighbourhood...
14:31:21 <andythenorth> retail neighbourhood
14:31:32 <Yexo> a house exists only on the map, there is no extra information
14:31:49 <Yexo> for industries a separate struct with a lot of extra informatino is stored
14:31:57 <andythenorth> ach
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14:32:47 <andythenorth> hmm
14:33:07 <andythenorth> 'money' isn't a good enough reason to ship goods / alcohol / building materials / food
14:33:22 <andythenorth> maybe the industries that receive should also produce something back
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15:27:04 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: ideally, they would have an effect on town growth
15:27:36 <andythenorth> ideally there would be world peace :P
15:27:42 <andythenorth> :D
15:32:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think that's really that ideal
15:33:10 <Eddi|zuHause> peace equals stagnation
15:33:11 <andythenorth> frosch has a TownControl spec
15:33:17 <andythenorth> but spec != code
15:33:55 <Eddi|zuHause> "spec is code by other means" :p
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15:36:46 <planetmaker> it's the code in which programmers are programmed :-P
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16:01:43 <andythenorth> why RVs sometimes drive right through each other?
16:01:49 <andythenorth> I don't mean at crossings
16:02:21 <andythenorth> I mean when one is stopped / slow
16:02:54 <peter1138> Quantum effects.
16:03:51 <peter1138> Specifically... "Road vehicle queueing (with quantum effects)"
16:03:56 <planetmaker> and the drivers are very impatient
16:04:15 <andythenorth> he
16:04:23 <andythenorth> I always wondered what quantum effects was :P
16:05:46 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth:
16:06:13 <andythenorth> it makes sense now I know what the setting means :)
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16:17:15 <Terkhen> andythenorth: IIRC to avoid deadlocks
16:17:42 <planetmaker> ^
16:17:58 <andythenorth> it looks particularly weird with trams
16:18:09 <andythenorth> and trams are also more prone to causing it to happen ;)
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16:22:56 <Terkhen> I remember that some of my TTD games were "broken" after a deadlock happened
16:23:48 <Eddi|zuHause> deadlocks occured very frequently in TTO, and they took ages to resolve
16:24:26 <Eddi|zuHause> usually when a vehicle was turning around before a station, and another vehicle was exiting the station at the same time
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16:30:19 <Terkhen> ^
16:30:26 <Terkhen> that's what happened, yes
16:31:10 <__ln__> *occurred
16:31:47 <__ln__> ok, i fail with ^B
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17:09:47 <andythenorth> shames there's no way to reverse-fill a ship route with bouys
17:09:56 <andythenorth> it can be boring to do manually :P
17:10:41 <planetmaker> andythenorth, the most boring thing is IMHO not building the buoys, but giving the orders. Which is tedious for long(er) routes
17:10:49 <andythenorth> yes
17:10:54 <planetmaker> But without... see my AI Competition game what happens ;-)
17:10:54 <andythenorth> that's what I'm referring to ;)
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17:11:18 <planetmaker> One AI build ships - but they all got lost, going around in a deserted, lonely bay...
17:11:25 <planetmaker> never reaching their destination
17:11:36 <andythenorth> a sad story :(
17:11:56 <planetmaker> yeah. especially for the passengers onboard :-P
17:12:02 <Terkhen> :D
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17:49:03 <Belugas> music music music por favor
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17:56:17 * andythenorth wishes this misleading line had never been put into the TTDP wiki:
17:56:24 <andythenorth> "light comes from the right"
17:56:25 <andythenorth> :P
17:59:34 <andythenorth> George: what alternative is better?
17:59:40 <andythenorth> wrt supplies?
18:00:09 <George> you mean
18:00:36 <andythenorth> yes
18:01:07 <George> I think stockpiling is better
18:01:27 <George> You can have also unlimeted size in 2 ways
18:02:14 <George> 1) the way Food plant and other agricultural industries do - al the cargo above limit is accepted, but nt stored
18:03:02 <Eddi|zuHause> how is that different to how it works now?
18:03:52 <George> 2) the way GBCP acts, when there is no limit and you can deliver as mach cargo as you want
18:04:43 <George> In FIRS the PLAYER should PROVIDE every month SUPPLY
18:05:49 <andythenorth> yes
18:05:51 <George> In ECS he should only provided required amount of cargo waiting, and the INDUSTRY ITSELF would spend required amount every month
18:06:40 <George> That means if in ECS you would deliver cargo on 29-th january and 2-th march - it is Ok
18:06:58 <Ammler> I would consider one tile routes as cheating
18:07:18 <George> in FIRS you should deliver before 28-feb, otherwise you would have production drop
18:07:37 <andythenorth> why would production drop?
18:07:51 <Eddi|zuHause> what's the problem? the example route was just a way for the player to simulate "storage" at his station
18:07:53 <andythenorth> it could, but it's not entirely deterministic
18:07:58 <George> because you do not have cargo delivered last month
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18:08:30 <andythenorth> production drop depends on (a) player has production decrease parameter enabled (b) random chance
18:08:44 * andythenorth dislikes parameters, but this one seemed worthwhile :(
18:08:52 <George> It would drop or have a chance to drop - it does not matter
18:09:14 <George> the problem that 1 day delay can cause a large penalty
18:09:29 <andythenorth> he :)
18:09:39 <George> In TTDs time scale I find it ... lets say not good
18:09:50 <Eddi|zuHause> i think ECS is much more vulnerable to such delivery oddities
18:09:56 <andythenorth> I am not very good at maths....but
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18:10:20 <George> Eddi|zuHause: No
18:10:29 <Terkhen> if the solution is stockpiling, I can live with that chance :/
18:10:39 <George> Storeplace is relative large
18:10:56 <Eddi|zuHause> i have not played ECS extensively, but i heard from some people complaining that one missed vehicle delivery can cripple your entire economy
18:10:57 <andythenorth> if random varaction 2 has 1F as mask, what is chance?
18:11:12 <Terkhen> although for supplies stockpiling wouldn't matter that much as you usually deliver small amounts
18:11:19 <George> So, if you are on the top of capacity - you would not definitly get the reduce
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18:11:46 <andythenorth> 1F is 3% chance?
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18:11:54 <George> > vehicle delivery can cripple your entire economy :)
18:12:05 <George> It sounds like they never played ECS
18:12:16 <George> But only heard about it
18:12:35 <andythenorth> ach
18:12:50 <andythenorth> lets say chance of decrease is 1/64
18:13:00 <andythenorth> or 1/4 if production is high
18:13:05 <andythenorth> and chance of increase is always 1/4
18:13:06 <confound> I find the idea of doing contrived 1-tile supply routes distasteful too, but in my first FIRS game so far I'm also apparently doing ok without it
18:13:10 <Eddi|zuHause> 1F=31
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18:13:15 <andythenorth> anyway
18:13:34 <Eddi|zuHause> then it depends on what ranges you check
18:13:43 <andythenorth> so month 1, your vehicle is late. Chance of decrease ~= 1/64
18:13:57 <andythenorth> but at the end of month 2 your cargo arrived. So chance of increase ~= 1/4
18:14:06 <andythenorth> net result. More chance of increase than decrease
18:14:10 <andythenorth> even if late
18:14:15 <George> 1F is 12%
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18:15:13 <Eddi|zuHause> i think you're talking about incomplete examples...
18:15:35 <Eddi|zuHause> which makes giving them proper meaning difficult
18:15:39 <andythenorth> brb
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18:18:38 <George> andythenorth: Agree with Eddi|zuHause. If you have a change for 1/4 growth during 2 months it is definintly higher than 1/64 decay and 1/4 grow
18:19:50 <George> I mean probabilistic average here
18:20:08 <George> It is higher in the first case than in the second
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18:29:36 <__ln__> sigue nevando en canarias, they say on tve
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18:33:55 <Eddi|zuHause> so?
18:34:22 <Belugas> quite
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18:45:51 <andythenorth> George: yes 1/4, 1/4 should be higher on average
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18:52:18 <andythenorth> putting aside which mechanic is better...
18:52:31 <andythenorth> ...why is the default assumption that production increase is good?
18:52:36 <andythenorth> production increase has downsides
18:53:09 <Alberth> it poses a challenge to the user
18:53:26 <andythenorth> it does indeed
18:54:33 <Alberth> and it feels like more positive challenge than a decrease would
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19:03:07 <George> andythenorth: > ...why is the default assumption that production increase is good? because it causes more transportation and profit
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19:04:56 <andythenorth> but it also disrupts your chain ;)
19:05:08 <andythenorth> and is a prime cause of station rating falling
19:15:41 <confound> dealing with more production feels fun
19:15:53 <confound> dealing with decreased production feels like you failed somehow
19:16:35 <andythenorth> he
19:16:43 <andythenorth> not dealing with increased production is quite a failure
19:16:48 <andythenorth> :D
19:17:03 <andythenorth> station ratings can drop so much you end up with less net cargo
19:19:30 <andythenorth> George: one thing I thought of was to move from 'calendar month' to 'rolling 30 day window'
19:19:45 <andythenorth> that's how FIRS secondary industries work for combining cargos
19:19:51 <andythenorth> it's fairer on the player
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19:34:29 <Eddi|zuHause> i agree with that
19:34:38 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: the 30 days?
19:34:43 <Eddi|zuHause> yes
19:35:04 <andythenorth> the only reasons it's not done are (a) I just thought of it (b) it's inconsistent with town behaviour
19:35:47 <andythenorth> but maybe town behaviour is wrong...
19:47:13 <confound> UKRS 2 says: The Livestock Van (along with the Covered Carriage Truck, the other vehicle which can carry livestock) expires in 1980. Realistically, all livestock should be transported by road from the 1970s onward.
19:47:24 <confound> I didn't know that. is it just in the UK or US too?
19:48:08 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know US, but this is happening all over europe
19:48:15 <confound> why?
19:48:31 <Eddi|zuHause> no idea. it makes for silly gameplay restrictions...
19:48:32 <confound> I'm not a big train geek, I just like openttd. so I don't know these things :)
19:50:44 <andythenorth> irl, far as I remember it's a combination of stricter regulations, and more abbatoirs closer to farms
19:51:40 <confound> did the latter happen because of the former?
19:51:53 <andythenorth> not sure
19:52:02 <andythenorth> there's some stuff on wikipedia about it if you dig around
19:52:02 <confound> seems reasonable,a nyway
19:52:03 <andythenorth>
19:52:07 <confound> heh
19:52:08 <confound> thanks
19:52:19 <andythenorth> depends on the country, but stuff like animals can only be transported so many hours
19:52:22 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not buying the "closer" argument... theree have been reports about livestock being transported through europe back and forth
19:52:30 <andythenorth> and have to be transported with people attending them
19:52:41 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I think 'closer' applies on the us scale
19:52:50 <andythenorth> e.g. not shipping all the cows to chicago
19:53:05 <andythenorth> I looked into it for FIRS, but I'm not so good at retaining facts
19:54:25 <andythenorth>
19:55:12 <andythenorth> this might be the most useful:
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20:05:54 *** Nite has joined #openttd
20:06:10 <Nite> Hi
20:06:36 <Nite> ... how is comunication with the russian ottd nerds?
20:07:24 <Nite> i like the Russian trains and tram set (rtts) much, any chance to get it on bananas
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20:21:07 <Alberth> did somebody already fire the international airport designer?
20:21:27 <Alberth> erecting a large communication tower right next to the runway
20:22:52 <peter1138> Is that one of RichK's?
20:23:00 <peter1138> If not, I think it's Darkvater's...
20:23:28 <andythenorth> sounds like a case for...
20:23:29 <Rubidium> it ain't DV's
20:23:31 <andythenorth> NewAirports
20:25:51 <Alberth> it's both in the original graphics base set and in the opengfx one
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20:30:29 <Belugas> Richk's
20:31:07 <Belugas> nice fellow, again :)
20:31:19 <Belugas> man, was he proud of that stuff!
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20:34:20 <peter1138> hmm
20:34:35 <peter1138> Well graphics set isn't anything to do with layouts ;)
20:36:27 <peter1138> Rubidium, why do you say it's not DVs?
20:36:35 <peter1138> DV's :)
20:36:50 <peter1138> OpenTTD 0.3.3
20:36:54 <peter1138> # Feature: darkvater's two new airports (metropolitan in 1980 and international in 1990)
20:39:13 <Belugas> oh fuck... here goes the memory
20:39:47 <George> andythenorth: Did you get the answer to your question (what alternative is better?)
20:39:56 <andythenorth> not yet ;)
20:40:05 <frosch123> luckily i have no idea which airport name relates to which layout :p
20:40:12 <George> What is unclean yet?
20:40:36 <andythenorth> George: multiple aspects
20:40:46 <George> ?
20:41:00 <andythenorth> well I'm not clear what problem is being solved initially
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20:59:11 <Belugas> well... time for me as well
20:59:12 <Belugas> night all
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21:08:55 <Rubidium> peter1138: really? Can't remember that; thought DV only added the metropolitan
21:13:12 <peter1138> Don't think you were here then ;)
21:13:21 <peter1138> I can't say for sure, because I wasn't...
21:13:59 <__ln__> when was that?
21:14:11 <peter1138> 0.3.3
21:14:18 <__ln__> that's not a date
21:14:24 <peter1138> You can look it up.
21:14:26 <Rubidium> point is that I don't remember the international, until after RichK
21:15:48 <__ln__> fine. it seemed to be in July 2004.
21:16:04 <__ln__> i was here back then...
21:16:52 <peter1138> win 23
21:16:55 <peter1138> argh
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21:21:37 * SmatZ got a little suspicion that __ln__ is in fact disguised ludde
21:22:56 <frosch123> i doubt someone was here at 0.3.3. sounds more like freenode
21:23:28 <frosch123> and of course ottd release numbers are valid dates
21:23:36 <__ln__> it's the same "here"
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21:28:01 <SmatZ> we have a lottery company that went into bankrupt recently
21:28:14 <SmatZ> and someone won ~5mil Eur
21:28:25 <SmatZ> there is little chance he will get his money
21:28:27 <SmatZ> soucks...
21:28:46 <frosch123> how can a lottery bankrupt?
21:28:48 <SmatZ> "yay, I won incredible amount of money" ... two months later "... NOOOOOOOO ... "
21:30:00 <SmatZ> frosch123: its about how lotteries have to donate sport... they built an arena (hockey, konzerts, ...) for ~1000mil Eur
21:30:18 <SmatZ> and they no longer have money to pay the debts
21:31:23 <frosch123> what's the czech word behind "konzert"? :o
21:31:41 <SmatZ>
21:31:55 <SmatZ> frosch123: music ... being played there ... singer singing ...
21:32:56 <SmatZ> "concert" :)
21:32:59 <frosch123> well, yes, same word in german :) so i got confused why you would put a german word with english plural form in there :)
21:33:00 <Vikthor> frosch123: In czech it's "koncert" though, probably from Italian
21:33:23 <SmatZ> hello Vikthor :)
21:33:34 <Vikthor> nazdar
21:33:50 <__ln__> nazgûl
21:33:53 <SmatZ> :P
21:34:12 <__ln__> well that wasn't czech but middle earth
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21:34:25 <SmatZ> ;)
21:34:43 <SmatZ> Czech Republic is in the middle of Europe :)
21:35:18 <Vikthor> Actually that is mordor or black speech
21:35:29 <__ln__> and i still haven't been there even once
21:36:06 <frosch123> hmm, i am still wondering whether you misspelled the english concert, the czech koncert, or used the german konert :)
21:36:15 <frosch123> *konzert :s
21:36:31 <SmatZ> frosch123: I expected you will understand "konzert" :)
21:36:44 <SmatZ> because "concert" looks weird
21:36:49 <SmatZ> but indeed, it's correct
21:37:16 <frosch123> ok :)
21:41:47 <frosch123> night
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22:45:09 <Wolf01> 'night
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