IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-03-10
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02:03:30 <Nemoder> how do I enable ai on a dedicated server?
02:11:37 <Eddi|zuHause> easiest way: edit the config in a client, and copy the openttd.cfg into the server
02:14:01 <Nemoder> I think I just had the ai in the wrong directory
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04:00:22 * andythenorth would like to moan about cargos that change their weight depending what vehicle is carrying them :P
04:00:31 <andythenorth> which is already known to be stupid
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06:02:06 <andythenorth> is there a magic sprite number to get 'use current terrain for this ground tile' ?
06:02:16 <andythenorth> similar to the magic sprite number that does that for railway track
06:04:02 <planetmaker> not that I know. Unfortunately
06:11:38 <planetmaker> let me guess: cobble is the surface cover you get when you put many cobble stones adjacent to eachother in order to cover the street?
06:12:19 <andythenorth> probably should be cobbled or cobbles
06:12:50 <planetmaker> No idea either way. So far I just new the word "cobble stone" ;-)
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06:13:47 <andythenorth> the FIRS ones are actually stone setts
06:13:52 <andythenorth> but I'm not too worried
06:14:12 <planetmaker> In restless dreams I walked alone. Narrow streets of cobble stone neath the halo of a street lamp,...
06:15:13 <planetmaker> hehe. Name a typical station tile - "mud" :-P
06:15:56 <andythenorth> drawing small crossings is a bit pot luck with railtypes
06:15:59 <andythenorth> I might not bother :P
06:20:41 <andythenorth> the DWE station set has a lot of cargo support I'd missed
06:24:19 <planetmaker> it's unarguably the best station set made in the last 24 months or so
06:24:33 <planetmaker> and one of the best anyway
06:25:16 <andythenorth> well there's no point replicating his work ;)
06:25:17 <planetmaker> even though of course it still has a lot of potential for improvements
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07:36:41 * andythenorth does hate bounding boxes
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07:37:58 <andythenorth> Yexo: I need the sorter to draw S buffers above any train using the station
07:38:04 <andythenorth> can't figure out what I need to set to do that
07:38:09 <andythenorth> your test station does it
07:38:53 <V453000> I know I may be getting annoying with the ISR but will chips have at least some transition tiles? :))
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07:39:41 <andythenorth> they're not massively needed for concrete-concrete
07:40:09 <V453000> maybe for the brown-ier ones like the brewery styled :)
07:40:43 <andythenorth> if it bothers you, see if Dante123 will add them to DWE
07:40:53 <andythenorth> that already has a class for transition tiles ;)
07:41:23 <andythenorth> I'm making CHIPS for me mostly :)
07:41:37 <andythenorth> I make simple stations
07:42:58 <andythenorth> the concrete tile matches to airport
07:43:52 <devilsadvocate> it would be nice to have station tiles that were not platform tiles
07:44:18 <devilsadvocate> tiles you could put in, but which the trains would just see as regular track
07:44:22 <devilsadvocate> and not stop there
07:44:40 <V453000> just make a new station
07:44:43 <V453000> and set non stop orders
07:44:52 <devilsadvocate> that would work
07:45:03 <V453000> I use it often so it surely would :)
07:45:47 <andythenorth> why do you need a station that's not a station?
07:45:58 <V453000> just making trains go through it
07:50:54 <devilsadvocate> yeah. for example, the tiles for the marshalling yards
07:51:00 <devilsadvocate> or random cranes and stuff
08:11:52 <andythenorth> is it useful when stations display cargo waiting?
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08:37:32 <planetmaker> hm, AIs can be really fun to watch :-)
08:37:47 <planetmaker> I didn't look at them for quite some time. They got a lot better it seems :-9
08:39:48 <andythenorth> I wish they'd just play the game for me :
08:40:02 <andythenorth> can we teach them to draw pixels? :o
08:41:34 <planetmaker> andythenorth: it seems they can play the game for you. NoCab is a very good guess to see a game being played it seems
08:41:45 <planetmaker> though I didn't start this game with FIRS
08:42:27 <andythenorth> any opinion on cargo waiting graphics?
08:42:50 <planetmaker> "always want that"
08:43:22 <planetmaker> the only annoying thing is that it is hardly displayed, if you provide good service
08:43:49 <planetmaker> I'd rather like to have (also) a component which draws cargo depending on the amount of turn-over
08:52:38 <andythenorth> I like cargo display
08:52:50 <andythenorth> but it's only actually useful when it shows a problem
08:54:27 <andythenorth> I mostly use it to spot a station with bad service
08:55:18 <andythenorth> I guess I'm a minority in that
09:02:31 <Terkhen> I do that too: a good station is empty
09:07:21 <planetmaker> well, yes, they are. Sadly.
09:10:22 <planetmaker> Hm. I wonder whether a station can show the respective cargo, if it is transported there. No matter how much is waiting :-)
09:10:29 <planetmaker> I guess it's feasible.
09:11:27 <andythenorth> there are some bizarre varaction 2s available for stations :P
09:11:32 <Terkhen> I would like to see something on the lines of "show last month cargo"; it does not make much sense realism-wise but it would be helpful
09:11:35 <planetmaker> Like a pile of containers for goods. A pile of steel bars when steel is transported. Logs for wood, vehicles for ENSP, etc.
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09:12:07 <andythenorth> is that because it's nice, or because it's useful in managing your network?
09:12:09 <planetmaker> Terkhen: yeah, like that. And it would look nicer than empty platforms
09:12:26 <andythenorth> I mostly use it as an 'out of condition' warning :)
09:12:31 <planetmaker> I like cargo display on stations. And it's a quick view what is going on
09:12:57 <andythenorth> I think maybe I use it less with FIRS because the ISR support is incomplete
09:12:58 <planetmaker> the condition warning... well. I don't really need that, though it works also as that
09:13:06 <planetmaker> but a station could have both kind of tiles
09:15:44 <andythenorth> how about a flashing red light when there is too much cargo :P
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09:19:49 <planetmaker> andythenorth: not useful. The amount of acceptable waiting cargo depends on the amount of turn over
09:20:07 <andythenorth> it will vary by play style
09:20:11 <andythenorth> for me it's about 500t
09:20:27 <planetmaker> there's no specific max. It depends on the industry output
09:20:37 <planetmaker> as cargo is delivered in chunks
09:21:02 <planetmaker> a huge industry will push much cargo, so there's at least shortly a huge amount of cargo, even if trains are loading
09:21:06 <planetmaker> but that's still acceptable
09:21:13 <planetmaker> different for small industries
09:21:23 <planetmaker> where it piles up for months. Rating will still be bad
09:21:35 <planetmaker> it goes by %, not by absolute numbers
09:30:34 <wargh> When I've been playing for about 50-60 years my game starts to studder (I think htats the right word), I think it's due to one of the AI's, is there any way to see how much computertime each AI takes up, or do I have tp try each AI individually for 50+ years? I don't think the problem is my computer, a C2D@3GHz
09:38:37 <Terkhen> wargh: how much AIs are you using?
09:40:21 <planetmaker> I'm way too lazy to run 11 test games. So they have to compete among themselves
09:40:31 <planetmaker> oh. wargh is a name :-P
09:40:50 <planetmaker> sounds like "aargh".
09:41:02 <planetmaker> ;-) No offence meant, though
09:41:29 <Terkhen> for tests a big number is fine, but for normal games it quickly becomes unplayable, even with a powerful processor
09:41:36 <wargh> Seven.It takes more to offend me. :P
09:41:47 <planetmaker> yes. fast forward already is nearly useless on the testgame here
09:42:28 <wargh> But three of them have no vehicles atm. If that matters att all.
09:42:43 <Terkhen> wargh: there are some AIs known to cause slowness (I don't know which ones, maybe someone else can help you with that) but 7 is quite a lot already
09:42:46 <planetmaker> Hm. Admiral AI once was better... It somehow never can make up its mind....
09:43:11 <Terkhen> if they have no vehicles they are probably looping through the map and calculating what they are going to do
09:43:12 <wargh> Admiral seems to do good at the start but then it fades away
09:43:55 <wargh> Ok, I set two of them to use trains only, they almost never get anywhere. Mainly becuase I play on maps with a lot of hills and water
09:44:47 <wargh> I'm pretty sure one of them is caught in a loop or something as you say. I was hoping that there where maybe some way to see in game in a AI was doing something like that which could slow down the game.
09:45:19 <wargh> But it takes about 50-60 years each game before it happens, and then it becomes unplayable
09:46:21 <wargh> And I've lowered the amout of AI's each game so currently I use OTVI, Roadrunner, Admiral, Clueless and Nocab (this one is always the best one).
09:46:45 <wargh> Admiral and cocab I use twice, but the second one set to only trains.
09:46:45 <Terkhen> you can access the AI debug window at the last button of the main toolbar
09:47:52 <wargh> Yeah, I have looked at that, but I don't get much help. In one game I saw one of the AI's seeming to be stuck, but that was only that specific game
09:49:15 <planetmaker> NoCAB does an excellent job
09:49:37 <wargh> Yeah I really like it, espceially that it uses ships also
09:49:49 <planetmaker> yep. And sensibly at that
09:50:29 <wargh> 32 trains, 493 road vehicles, 114 ships and 21 aircrafts for nocab atm
09:50:47 <planetmaker> hehe. They cannot buy more than 10 ships here and not more than 20 planes ;-)
09:51:42 <wargh> I have the standard settings =)
09:52:17 <wargh> I've tested many AI's and these are the ones I found to work good enought, althought I'm thinking of removing Admiral
09:53:33 <wargh> But right now I wish I could just figure out if it's one of the AI's that is making my game unplayable or if I just have a too slow computer.
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09:54:37 <wargh> I have no problem with Warcraft 3 and a modified AI though, which controls 11 AI's with quite a lot of operations going on. But maybe TTD AI execues a lot more operations.
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09:56:18 <planetmaker> OpenTTD is not multi-threaded
09:56:25 <planetmaker> so your 2nd core won't help you there
10:00:10 <Terkhen> hmm... I forgot about the hover bus
10:03:53 <wargh> Maybe I should try with 5 AI and see if it works better
10:07:37 <wargh> Gonna leave it on a teastgame during the day while I'm away and see if it studders when I get home.
10:10:45 <wargh> Bah, two weeks of sunshine and +5 degress, now snowstorm for two days. :/
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10:41:01 <Scuddles> Where is andythenorth? I must speak with him this very instant
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10:43:15 <andythenorth> don't ask to ask...
10:46:13 <dihedral> "this very instant"?? a) who do you think you are? b) where do you think you are? c) are you prepared to pay for "this very instant" support?
10:46:43 <peter1138> That negates all the other questions.
10:47:05 <peter1138> (Negates the requirement, I mean)
10:47:54 <andythenorth> he clearly wasn't that bothered about the question :P
10:48:02 <andythenorth> 6 minutes so far
10:48:09 <andythenorth> instant coffee is faster than that
10:48:18 <andythenorth> peter1138: did you fix the map gen yet?
10:50:13 <Scuddles> It's hardly my fault :(
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10:51:14 <Scuddles> Anyway, I enjoy your mayonnaise, ketchup, salt_and_vinegar but
10:51:58 <Scuddles> Surely the buffers on the platform tiles have some sort of clipping problems with the pj1k locos and such?
10:53:44 <andythenorth> yes that might happen
10:54:00 <andythenorth> it's only r35, give it time :P
11:01:28 <andythenorth> I'm trying to fix it at the moment :D
11:01:40 <Scuddles> Are there plans for non-platform tiles of any sort?
11:02:08 <Scuddles> I mean, like those with a bit of track and buffers
11:03:15 <andythenorth> there are non-track tiles yes
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11:07:18 <Scuddles> Hooray, hopefully it'll work out eventually
11:09:48 * andythenorth wishes 'newgame' wasn't in console history :P
11:09:59 <andythenorth> one 'up' too many and it's trouble :P
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14:40:02 <Sacro> has flyspray been abandoned?
14:40:18 <planetmaker> or you mean the programme itself?
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15:10:30 <planetmaker> I did not read that yet
15:12:06 <planetmaker> In any case I agree with norbert that such large-scale changes would be nice, if they are discussed in advance
15:16:30 <planetmaker> Hm... those two changes can be justified. But the change from Wegpunkt to Wegmarkierung is IMHO more grave and not nice
15:18:07 <lugo-> yep, like mb pointed out, it means something completly different..
15:35:39 <planetmaker> lugo-, maybe you have time to revert the Wegmarkierung now?
15:35:56 <planetmaker> I don't really have time till mid next week and I might forget ;-)
15:38:22 <planetmaker> though maybe it's better to first talk to him.
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18:25:23 <dihedral> ah... you already have a de mirror
18:27:04 <Rubidium> does de.binaries.openttd.org work?
18:28:02 <dihedral> else i would have ptovided one :-P
18:29:44 <peter1138> Then truebrain's mirror.txt is out of date :)
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18:45:35 <CIA-7> OpenTTD: translators * r22229 /trunk/src/lang/ (brazilian_portuguese.txt slovak.txt):
18:45:35 <CIA-7> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:35 <CIA-7> OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 3 changes by Tucalipe
18:45:35 <CIA-7> OpenTTD: slovak - 44 changes by micropro_cz
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18:55:09 <Zuu> planetmaker: Where to I find a binary of OpenGFX+ Airports nightly-r73?
18:55:31 <Zuu> The link in your sig just give me a project page where there is no content in the files-tab.
18:55:45 <Zuu> Also, manually browsing the bundles page, I fail to find it.
18:56:26 <CIA-7> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22230 /trunk/src/lang/slovak.txt: -Fix: WT3 validation
18:56:38 <Zuu> Oh, now I found it. Just that the bundles list was not sorted a-z.
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19:22:35 <Lakie> Well, when I tested it moving the window worked
19:22:49 <Lakie> TTDpatch redraws the window on view selection change,
19:23:21 <Lakie> OpenTTD at the tme appeared to notice the change in text but not redraw until forced to
19:23:41 <Lakie> Of course, its possible the current view isn't correct?
19:25:34 <Lakie> Ah, that'd be the bug then
19:25:58 <Lakie> I tested it on text changes over time, so I now the text can be changed, didn't try views directly though
19:26:29 <frosch123> ok, "changes over time" makes sense :)
19:27:11 <frosch123> you kind of confused us with reporting something works when moving the window which could not work at all :)
19:27:57 <Lakie> Didn't realize that you wouldn't pass current_view, seemed like an inportant bit of info
19:32:38 <CIA-7> OpenTTD: frosch * r22231 /trunk/src/object_gui.cpp: -Feature(ette): [NewGRF] Make var 0x48 available in CB 0x15C.
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