IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-01-30
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00:46:55 <DoubleYou> hey all, i was wondering, did the 2cc trainset rename or is it just gone from the newgrf online content delivery system?
00:47:41 <DoubleYou> when i look for 2cc i get the chiameara addon, subway and 'generic european set'
00:48:02 <DoubleYou> but the eu set doesn't have cargo wagons for FIRs, as the forum topic mentions
00:50:54 <Ammler> DoubleYou: which openttd version?
00:52:33 <DoubleYou> is there maybe another cargo set which is recommended for FIRs?
00:52:59 <DoubleYou> I got the HEQS but that's road and tram only :)
00:53:16 <Ammler> you can use multiple set at once
00:53:35 <DoubleYou> i know, that's why I needed another one for trains
00:54:33 <Ammler> or use beta4, there you have 2cctrainset
00:55:30 <Eddi|zuHause> you should really play FIRS with the beta, alone for the production chain display ;)
00:57:13 <Eddi|zuHause> and the issue with no 2cc set for 1.0.5 you should report in the 2cc thread in the forum
00:58:24 <Ammler> well, with 1.0.5, you might get only 2cc 1.0
00:58:37 <DoubleYou> production chain display? i might just go for the beta 4 then :)
00:58:38 <Ammler> but you should also use 2cc 2beta
00:58:47 <Eddi|zuHause> well, true. but it should still be downloadable at all
00:59:26 <Ammler> DJNekkid: you need to rise max version for 2cc 1.0 :-)
01:00:51 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 40*5*60*60/1024
01:00:51 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 703.125
01:00:54 <DoubleYou> is there a readup on the forums about that production chain display?
01:01:46 <Eddi|zuHause> there might be a wiki page
01:05:02 <DoubleYou> i can only find mentions about it, not a preview screenshot
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01:09:21 <z-MaTRiX_> i remember the chains in game...
01:09:53 <z-MaTRiX_> train running costs
01:10:55 <z-MaTRiX_> but earned many billion euros
01:12:37 <z-MaTRiX_> admiralai freaked out <;
01:12:49 <DoubleYou> i just downloaded and started beta4, but how do you get the industry chain display then?
01:13:33 <Eddi|zuHause> click on an industry
01:13:42 <z-MaTRiX_> ever tried clock on an industry? :)
01:14:29 <DoubleYou> heh. i expected a whole list for all industries like that pdf :)
01:14:45 <DoubleYou> but that's more logical and easier :)
01:14:57 <z-MaTRiX_> whats the bad in you click on it and see the list?
01:15:21 <z-MaTRiX_> dont have to search a pdf
01:15:57 <DoubleYou> wow that's pretty neat function
01:16:03 <DoubleYou> it's clickable and all
01:16:15 <DoubleYou> kudos to the creator
01:16:29 <Eddi|zuHause> there's also the "show in map" button ;)
01:18:19 <DoubleYou> might i recommend a feature? :) hehe
01:18:24 <DoubleYou> don't know where to do that
01:19:08 <DoubleYou> on all buttons a right click shows the help - i suggest also that for the help in that screen instead of waiting for a long hover
01:19:31 <Eddi|zuHause> that's a setting
01:19:40 <DoubleYou> i'm thinking too fast...
01:19:46 <Eddi|zuHause> advanced settings -> interface -> hover for popup
01:19:58 <Eddi|zuHause> set to 0 to get the right-click behaviour back
01:21:19 <DoubleYou> yes i found it, thanks!
01:21:51 <DoubleYou> after 3 years of too busy study finally found time to play it again
01:21:58 <Eddi|zuHause> before you suggest any more features, i suggest you read the changelog ;)
01:22:06 <DoubleYou> have been playing the game since 1994 :)
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01:24:52 <DoubleYou> hm, then this is a bug? the help text doesn't display anymore in the chain when set to right click hehe
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01:34:08 <Eddi|zuHause> which help text isn't showing that was showing before?
01:35:39 <DoubleYou> for example, if you show the chain for coal (and I'm using FIRs) then it can go to a lime kiln, but also stone goes there, so the lime kiln shows a not-connected 'stone' entry which you can click on
01:35:59 <DoubleYou> hovering on it shows 'stone click to see the industry chain' etc
01:36:15 <DoubleYou> but with the help set to right click, that doesn't show anymore'
01:36:25 <DoubleYou> just like any other hover text in the industry chain panel
01:36:40 <Eddi|zuHause> interesting. that might indeed be a bug
01:36:51 <Eddi|zuHause> report at bugs.openttd.org
01:37:11 <Rubidium> "click to see the industry chain" sounds like a tooltip
01:37:31 <Rubidium> given you changed the tooltips to be shown on right click instead of hovering...
01:37:46 <Rubidium> ... it not showing when hovering is the right behaviour
01:39:26 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: but the tooltip doesn't seem to show up on right clicking either
01:43:20 <Rubidium> then file a bug report
01:43:46 <DJNekkid> Ammler: any suggestion to what?
01:44:04 <DJNekkid> Ammler: the-rev-before-1.1.0-beta1 ?
01:44:36 <DoubleYou> i'm trying to register my username, waiting for the validation email to arrive...
01:45:41 <Ammler> or however that works :-)
01:45:43 <Rubidium> DoubleYou: yeah, that can take a while (sometimes hours) thanks to the "lovely" spammers
01:47:08 <DoubleYou> okay let's play further for a while then. i thought i also saw a sprite but (at least, it looks very strange)
01:50:04 <DoubleYou> difficult to otherwise fix, i suppose?
01:50:23 <Eddi|zuHause> that's supposed to be like this
01:50:51 <Eddi|zuHause> it's less apparent with the default grfs
01:51:05 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean the original one
01:51:20 <DoubleYou> yes in the original ones you didn't really had a beach
01:52:36 <Eddi|zuHause> might be possible to implement that these "corners" get flooded as well, all the way to the end
01:52:53 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure if it's worth doing though...
01:59:12 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... is r21513 too old or did FIRS not yet implement genders for industries?
02:00:14 <Eddi|zuHause> how are genders specified in grfs?
02:01:07 <devilsadvocate> 'genders' for industries?
02:02:17 <Eddi|zuHause> devilsadvocate: the news message "new <industry> founded at X" must respect gender of <industry> to transform "new" into the right form (in some languages)
02:11:29 <z-MaTRiX_> faster, harder, scooter
02:26:28 <Eddi|zuHause> damn, even with the increased payment rates, i'm still about 600 bucks off per month :(
02:38:13 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... somehow my FIRS patch for genders didn't seem to work
03:00:30 <Eddi|zuHause> why does there never open a new industry when you need one ;)
03:04:36 <Eddi|zuHause> where's andythenorth when you need him?
03:06:31 <__ln__> and why indeed is it so silent here at 4 am CET?
03:09:19 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway... anyone point him to www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/firs_german_gender.diff
03:09:30 <Eddi|zuHause> seems to work ;)
03:11:18 <Eddi|zuHause> (might need slight cleaning up)
03:12:59 <__ln__> non-countable i presume
03:13:01 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, it's for plural
03:14:56 <Eddi|zuHause> it was my idea, about two years ago or so ;)
03:16:01 <Eddi|zuHause> in plural, there is no syntactical difference between male/female/neutral anymore, so only one plural gender is needed
03:18:35 <__ln__> oh, a serious train accident in germany
03:22:30 <Eddi|zuHause> about 10 dead. reason unknown. double track section at a single track line, passenger train hit a freight train
03:24:31 <Eddi|zuHause> neither train owned by the DB
03:26:17 <__ln__> the (other) lokführer being killed suggests it wasn't at least the same kind of derailing as last summer
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08:42:35 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: flooding those will destroy a lot of infrastructure in current savegames
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10:00:25 <andythenorth> currently FIRS can build n fishing harbours per town
10:00:34 <andythenorth> and often builds more than 1 at map gen
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10:24:12 <Terkhen> andythenorth: I don't know if they have changed, but a few months ago I had to retry many times to get a single fishing harbour in a 256x256 map
10:24:32 <andythenorth> that might be about to get worse :P
10:24:46 <andythenorth> do you remember what sea level setting?
10:25:38 <Terkhen> it was probably 33% or something near that
10:26:30 <andythenorth> actually, thinking about it, it's more likely you didn't have any coastal towns with correct land shape
10:27:49 <Terkhen> I usually don't set many towns
10:28:13 <andythenorth> fishing harbour is town only
10:28:19 <andythenorth> but sucks for gameplay :P
10:28:24 <andythenorth> because the food is already in town :
10:29:20 <Terkhen> it fits nicely in subartic, where the towns that need food are usually far from the coast
10:29:50 <andythenorth> I shall leave it be then
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10:43:17 <ZirconiumX> hello guys and/or gals
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11:36:55 <planetmaker> hm... total savegames and screenshots of the competition are already 100 MB... takes its time uploading ;-)
11:38:31 <planetmaker> but now finally also web page is written automatically ;-)
11:38:49 <planetmaker> just ./create_webpage and then upload...
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11:40:09 <Terkhen> I should also do a script to profile automatically, it would save me much time
11:43:43 <planetmaker> :-) yeah. If it is just loading a save and letting it run with different openttds, it's a not very long one...
11:48:41 <Terkhen> hi frosch123, thank you for finding those w :)
11:49:00 <frosch123> i think i stared more than 5 minutes on those lines :p
11:50:19 <Terkhen> I stared at the diff for 10 minutes or so, thinking "I don't see a difference"
11:50:23 <Terkhen> before going to bed :)
11:51:09 <Terkhen> hmm... I wonder why the method I used for checking crash.dmp files does not work on MSVC 2010
11:51:56 * andythenorth should go on a FIRS r2k adventure
11:52:03 <andythenorth> currently at r1643
11:52:09 <andythenorth> but first....lunch!
11:55:36 <Terkhen> oh, got it working now :)
11:56:13 <frosch123> are you checking the duplicates?
11:56:45 <Terkhen> FS#4452 is a duplicate, yes
11:57:17 <Terkhen> I don't see any further tasks that could be a duplicate
11:57:42 <frosch123> 4451 is a duplicate of something else
11:58:32 <Terkhen> yes, I remember that assertion
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12:47:48 <frosch123> is that zoomed-out one really meant to be zoomed out?
12:48:11 <Zuu> Also not all screenshots seem to have got generated for 2560x1600.
12:56:07 <Zuu> planetmaker: Typo on the website s/UT/UTC/
12:56:49 <planetmaker> Not at all. I'll pay attention to those 23 seconds or so ;-)
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12:59:17 <planetmaker> But fixed for the next version, Zuu :-)
12:59:17 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: alberth * r21927 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp: -Change: Comment-style fixes.
13:00:30 <mib_wld66r> I need some help installing openTTD on a mac, think anyone can take a bit of time to just smooth me through the process, I ain't the best computer viz to put it like that :P
13:02:21 <mib_wld66r> I just remember playing it many many years ago, it was such a great game! Need to have something to do at college :P
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13:04:59 <Eddi|zuHause> argh... i missed andythenorth again...
13:06:29 <planetmaker> mib_wld66r: better get an official binary of the latest 1.1.0-beta4
13:06:30 <Eddi|zuHause> mib_wld66r: don't use that. it's horribly outdated
13:06:31 <planetmaker> mib_wld66r: better get an official binary of the latest 1.1.0-beta5
13:06:48 <planetmaker> perk11: please better give official links. Thank you.
13:07:02 <planetmaker> A lot of things were fixed since
13:07:14 <perk11> planetmaker: well, there wasn't one for 1.05
13:07:26 <planetmaker> and there won't be
13:07:27 <perk11> and 1.1.0 is still beta
13:08:06 <ABCRic> perk11: it's stable enough for playing
13:08:07 <planetmaker> but he didn't ask for 1.0.5.
13:08:08 <Eddi|zuHause> perk11: if you think "beta" is worse than "custom, completely unsupported"
13:10:02 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: looks fine for what I can tell and without testing it. I assume you did?
13:10:22 <perk11> "Feature: After building a road or tram bridge/tunnel, connect it to any existing road or tram" I don't understansd, what is this?
13:10:28 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i compiled it and waited for at least one industry to create
13:11:09 <Eddi|zuHause> perk11: i guess like building station or depot, it creates a halftile connection on the adjacent tile, if it's not already there
13:12:00 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: but your diff does not seem to be in UTF-8, can that be?
13:12:12 <planetmaker> or is it my browser which messes it up?
13:12:12 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: it should be, why?
13:12:52 <planetmaker> sorry, yes, it's my browser
13:13:27 <planetmaker> or rather the mimi-type plug-in which allows to display everything, if desired ;-)
13:14:10 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: possibly "Fisch" should be renamed to "Fische". it's not "uncountable, singular" like in english ;)
13:17:43 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: and "Depot" [in the station names] might rather be "Lager"?
13:19:08 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: Depot->Lager: yes
13:19:15 <planetmaker> With Fisch->Fische I'm not sure
13:19:34 <planetmaker> You only use the plural form, if you really count single fish
13:19:50 <planetmaker> Which you in this scale don't ;-)
13:20:04 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... if you say so ;)
13:20:18 <Terkhen> wouldn't this make FIRS not compatible with 1.0.5?
13:22:00 <ABCRic> Terkhen: 1.1 will be out anytime soon ;)
13:22:02 <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: i don't know, but i would presume it'll just ignore the unknown characters
13:22:56 <planetmaker> ABCRic: not before we also had some release candidates
13:23:25 <planetmaker> Terkhen: that'd not be the most serious constraint, I think
13:23:36 <planetmaker> it's using other non-1.0.x stuff, too
13:23:43 <Terkhen> I don't really mind since I always play with trunk, but it would be good to know if it does before uploading any new versions to bananas
13:24:12 <planetmaker> but it works so far, though less nicely wrt placement etc. So testing should be done in a quick way :-)
13:26:04 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: google war: "Tonne(n) Fisch": 2420 (38000) vs. "Tonne(n) Fische": 420 (5400)
13:26:07 <Eddi|zuHause> what i don't understand in the above diff is the difference in the line "//Fish"
13:26:41 <Eddi|zuHause> to me it doesn't look changed at all...
13:26:47 <Eddi|zuHause> or is there line ending weirdness?
13:27:08 <planetmaker> you corrected trailing white space
13:27:12 <Terkhen> the first one has a space after Fish, the second one does not
13:27:37 <Terkhen> the original translation has spaces at the end of most strings, I don't know why
13:33:18 <planetmaker> the script to check for language updates would profit from gloabally identify-able constituents of the gender define
13:33:48 <Terkhen> planetmaker: what do you mean?
13:33:49 <planetmaker> e.g. try to run from the scripts directory check_language.sh 02
13:33:50 <frosch123> "Fische" is a piece cargo like livestock, "Fisch" is bulk
13:34:43 <planetmaker> Terkhen: with the patch you'll always get the gender definitions as not-needed strings
13:35:02 <planetmaker> it could be filtered out if every such define would e.g. start with GENDER_
13:35:26 <planetmaker> or something else which is somewhat uniq
13:35:35 <Terkhen> yes, if we agree on a common identificator ignoring them on the script should be trivial
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13:40:08 <planetmaker> let's install that modified FIRS version and test 1.0.5
13:43:08 <planetmaker> hm, doesn't build, though
13:47:35 <planetmaker> does it actually build for you, Eddi|zuHause ?
13:48:01 <Eddi|zuHause> what's the problem?
13:48:24 <planetmaker> //!!Invalid character: "M". // 0 * 0 04 0B 82 01 01 DC C3 9E M "Rohrzucker" 00
13:49:15 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe your preprocessor works differently?
13:49:47 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: remove the #undef lines from the end?
13:50:54 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i have a feeling the firs build system doesn't handle dependencies correctly
13:51:19 <planetmaker> that may be. But that does not explain an error as such
13:51:34 <planetmaker> removing the #undef funnily has the desired result
13:51:42 <Eddi|zuHause> well, it kinda does
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13:55:16 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: it does not explain the gcc to fail preprocessing it properly as that should work independent of what make considers a dependency.
13:55:31 <planetmaker> gcc knows nothing about those deps
13:55:45 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: no, but it explains why it built for me after adding these undefs
13:55:58 <Eddi|zuHause> because it actually never processed them.
13:56:38 <planetmaker> ah. I think they need adding in remove_defines.pnfo
13:58:51 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like a bad plan, because they're kinda very language dependent
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14:00:28 <planetmaker> Well, every language would have to add theirs there, yes
14:01:16 <Eddi|zuHause> better add a <language>_cleanup.pnfo?
14:05:07 <planetmaker> well. But that'd remove the one cleanup for all languages
14:05:42 <planetmaker> hm... sugar cane != Zucker
14:08:10 <Eddi|zuHause> well _I_ didn't do the translation :p
14:13:58 <planetmaker> I don't think one can include a file which is given by a #define SOME_FILE_DEFINED - or?
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14:19:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think so
14:21:30 <planetmaker> a test showed that it doesn't work ;-)
14:21:38 <planetmaker> and the manual seems to confirm
14:25:47 <Eddi|zuHause> what would be really useful is a "greedy" replacement of the M/W/... within the defines in german.pnfo
14:27:29 <planetmaker> I replaced " M " and was done
14:27:34 <planetmaker> same with the other 3
14:27:43 <planetmaker> it just leaves the undefine
14:29:24 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean currently it works like this: ädefine M, #define STR_BLAH M "blah", enter generic lang, use STR_BLAH -> M "blah". use M -> "gender blah"
14:30:43 <Eddi|zuHause> it would be better if it was: #define M, #define STR_BLAH M "blah", use M -> #define STR_BLAH "gender blah", enter generic lang, use STR_BLAH -> "gender blah"
14:31:00 <Eddi|zuHause> then M doesn't need to be defined outside of german at all
14:31:16 <planetmaker> well. I'll go for the cleanup files
14:52:06 <planetmaker> there you go, Eddi|zuHause, update your FIRS repo ;-)
14:52:20 <planetmaker> and I totally forgot to test 1.0.5 compatibility
14:57:36 <Terkhen> I will prepare a similar update for spanish
15:00:56 <planetmaker> don't forget to add a separate cleanup file - though it doesn't complain without ;-)
15:08:02 <planetmaker> great. Usage of deprecated functions in libpng 1.4
15:08:25 <planetmaker> I don't recall seeing that with 1.2
15:09:51 <Eddi|zuHause> well, the functions might not have been deprecated yet in 1.2 :p
15:12:04 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: but my system didn't change. So they introduced them between 1.2 and 1.4
15:14:05 <planetmaker> hm. My FIRS is not compatible with 1.0.5. Unknown action0 property
15:15:20 <Eddi|zuHause> it really errors out on that?
15:15:37 <Eddi|zuHause> might need an action7/9 around the gender translation table then
15:16:28 <planetmaker> [grf] [firs/firs.grf:320] ReserveChangeInfo: Unknown property 0x13 of feature 0x08, disabling
15:17:22 <planetmaker> that's the gender translation table
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15:28:04 <Puddles> Hi guys, it's me with the installment problems from earlier again, I have some problems getting the trainstation to accept resources... Any thoughts?
15:28:44 <Terkhen> explain your problem in more detail, please
15:31:11 <Puddles> I just started playing the game now, and I am having problems getting the train station to accept the fact that there is a maize factory right by it...
15:31:26 <perk11> can anyone here remove grfs from the bananas?
15:34:20 <ABCRic> Puddles: before placing the station, check what it accepts by looking at the station windows
15:36:20 <Puddles> Did that, said it accepts maize, but after it has been placed it no longer accepts it... Is this a known bug for the mac version?
15:36:55 <Ammler> perk11: you should mail rubi (web->contact) and mention the point of tos it violates
15:37:15 <perk11> Ammler: ok, thank you, it
15:37:26 <Alberth> Puddles no, can you supply a picture or save game?
15:37:27 <perk11> *it's requested to remove in descriptiom
15:37:35 <Ammler> if it is yours, just hide it with version information
15:37:53 <Alberth> perk11: devs don't read the descriptions
15:38:16 <Puddles> ABCric: got it to work on a different station, I probably missed something, I'll try again :P Thanks though!
15:38:42 <planetmaker> hm.... also skipping the feature 08, property 13 does not quite give nice strings
15:41:03 <Alberth> perk11: why don't you ask the author?
15:42:47 <Alberth> ie removing a newgrf just because someone mails is not really ideal, unless you have proof of some license problem or it got uploaded by someone else than the author.
15:43:48 <Alberth> but not everybody uses OpenGFX+ Trains, do they?
15:44:34 <perk11> but I think the author wanted to remove it, but didn't know how to do it
15:44:38 <Ammler> perk11: and why does such a grf violate tos?
15:44:58 <perk11> Ammler: I didn't say it violates
15:45:02 <Ammler> just set max version to 0 and it will go
15:45:19 <Ammler> then it is impossible to delete it
15:45:41 <Alberth> probably, but the author should fix it (and even then I am not convinced it should be removed due to old savegames)
15:45:45 <Ammler> (maybe 0 means no limit, so 1 is better :-)
15:45:56 <Alberth> Ammler: that will kill old save games, wouldn't it?
15:46:22 <Alberth> ok, then it's fine :)
15:46:27 <Ammler> the version restriction do only affect download without md5sum
15:47:23 <perk11> so how do I contact the author?
15:48:26 <Ammler> perk11: easiest might be mail via tt-forums
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16:11:25 <planetmaker> what's the problem with the bauxite wagon? Are you sure it's not the author who uploaded it himself?
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16:20:53 <planetmaker> well. It just says that one should use OpenGFX+Trains instead. The author (oberhumer) should just make it unavailable and be done
16:21:12 <planetmaker> unavailable as in set the max version to something very low
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16:57:14 <planetmaker> showing holywood movie material to show the effectiveness of current fighter aircraft
16:57:47 <Eddi|zuHause> well, the chinese are known to rip _anything_ off :p
17:00:02 <heffer> geez. what is it that the chinese think they can get through with this?
17:00:25 <heffer> it's not like the whole world is frowning at them already...
17:00:51 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm fairly certain you'll find examples of FOX News doing exactly the same thing :p
17:00:51 <__ln__> heffer: they own half the world
17:01:36 <planetmaker> I'd not hold a bet against that, Eddi|zuHause :-)
17:01:51 <heffer> __ln__: if i'd own half the world i'd try to be more serious
17:02:37 <heffer> i like to think of it as a kind of satire
17:02:58 <heffer> well actually it's on the border to comedy
17:12:53 <frosch123> planetmaker: actually, during my service we saw the intro of james ryan to learn the strength of machine guns and flame throwers
17:15:11 <planetmaker> he, well. That might be something else; there's a difference between a somewhat documentary used for instruction purposes and a showing a move clip broadcasted as part of the actual news you try to deliver
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17:30:01 <wargh> Good eavning. I'd like the random generator to make maps even more "mountanious" and with more water than the GUI allows me to do. Is there any way I can make this happen? I.e. I want less land that in form of steep islands with more distance to nearby land.
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17:30:47 <planetmaker> design by hand in the scenario editor or play more with the settings, wargh
17:30:49 <Eddi|zuHause> wargh: the relevant code is in src/tgp.cpp
17:31:00 <planetmaker> like 0% land is quite few land
17:31:09 <planetmaker> and that can even be done in the GUI
17:31:10 <Eddi|zuHause> wargh: or open an image editor and paint a greyscale-heightmap
17:31:33 <Terkhen> you can also try geogen
17:34:38 <Terkhen> hmm... the map scrolls way too much for me on linux
17:37:04 <wargh> By hand is out of the question as I preffer the map to be randomly generated. And I think I can't get any furhter with the GUI settings. I can't find tgp.ccp with search.
17:38:11 <Terkhen> wargh: which version are you using?
17:38:56 <Ammler> that is like "latest" :-)
17:39:18 <wargh> I didn't know if he was maybe counting the different betas =)
17:41:01 <wargh> Ok. As it is now in the stable version I would be happy if I could just raise seawater with one more lvl and the maps to be just a tad more mountaious. I think the very settings aren't really very.
17:41:28 <wargh> But I guess it all comes down to personal prefernace
17:51:36 <wargh> Thanks for the help, might just try out the beta then.
17:52:49 <wargh> And just a little shoutout. Thank you to all that put time and effort into this project.
18:06:21 <wargh> Hehe, I just noticed that I can't make smoke from a power station transparent so I can't see how the signal on my track is placed.
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18:31:04 <Eddi|zuHause> it takes a long time to teach your brain to not try to read that as a bot command :p
18:32:11 <andythenorth> planetmaker: the incompatibility with 1.0.x is not a problem
18:32:30 <andythenorth> did you / will you update readme and changelog?
18:33:16 <planetmaker> I looked at the readme and only found one place mentioning explicitly the version - which I changed. Or I missed others
18:33:26 <planetmaker> changelog is for before a release
18:33:49 <andythenorth> sometimes I start changelogs in advance, but not often
18:35:40 * andythenorth has increasingly less patience with stupid suggestions
18:35:59 * DanMacK is definitely sick of stupidity
18:36:54 <andythenorth> I usually have patience (some natural, some because I make my own stupid suggestions)
18:37:20 <andythenorth> the newgrf suggestion by muzzly
18:37:42 <andythenorth> is the most epic piece of stupidity I've seen in a suggestion for some time
18:38:32 <Alberth> the 'become driver' was less stupid?
18:38:48 <andythenorth> that patch exists somewhere :P
18:39:00 <Terkhen> in the Big Sets AND Single Items thread? his post is quite rude too
18:39:15 <andythenorth> rude I overlook for anyone who's not native english
18:39:33 <andythenorth> tbh many of the native english speakers are worse - they actually intend to be rude
18:39:38 <andythenorth> hence why I never go in #tycoon
18:40:17 <andythenorth> "Amount of sprites inside newgrf file is also limited because of compatibility with TTDP."
18:40:34 <Terkhen> Hello, I am playing openttd not TTDP :D <-- you can't really blame this on not knowing the language well
18:40:42 <Terkhen> hmm... I have never been to that channel
18:41:12 <Illegal_Alien> I am never rude, ow wait...
18:42:11 <Alberth> he seems to be posting in the wrong forum :)
18:42:34 <andythenorth> is there a forum for 'idiocy' :P
18:43:03 <frosch123> andythenorth: ttdp has a limit for realsprites (not counting pseudo sprites)
18:43:09 <andythenorth> stupid, badly conceived, non-implementable suggestions for a bunch of problems that don't exist
18:43:30 <Terkhen> andythenorth: just ignore them
18:43:56 * andythenorth has clearly drunk too much coffee
18:44:09 <andythenorth> only 349 FIRS commits needed for r2k
18:45:30 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: translators * r21928 /trunk/src/lang/portuguese.txt:
18:45:30 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:30 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: portuguese - 5 changes by JayCity
18:45:40 <Terkhen> if you implement every stupid suggestion you will get there in no time at all!
18:45:59 <andythenorth> FIRS doesn't have too many dumb suggestions :)
18:46:11 <andythenorth> but there are a lot of contradictory requests :)
18:46:24 <andythenorth> driving the train suggestion isn't so bad
18:46:44 <andythenorth> sometimes it would be nice to force a train to go to a specific point
18:47:07 <andythenorth> basically, 'try and get to this tile XY location (assuming it's a valid track type etc)
18:48:21 <Terkhen> you can achieve that with a waypoint
18:48:40 <andythenorth> and inserting an extra order
19:02:30 <Alberth> you will need a few for new string translations :)
19:12:28 * andythenorth decides *not* to animate the little trucks in FIRS quarries
19:14:18 <planetmaker> Alberth: FIRS most of all needs an updated Dutch translation. Taking proper care of the genders ;-)
19:15:01 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: planetmaker * r21929 /trunk/src/ (terraform_gui.cpp town_gui.cpp): -Fix [FS#4554]: The town window would not be invalidated in the scenario editor if the ground changed and thus the required cargos for town growth
19:17:08 <DanMacK> Were's your sense of adventure Andy? Don't want animation? :P
19:17:32 <Alberth> he wants a co-adventurer, I think :)
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19:18:47 <andythenorth> I don't want to animate trucks driving, turning, loading, unloading across about 6 tiles, for at least three different layouts
19:18:55 <andythenorth> with at least 2, maybe 4 generations of truck
19:19:17 <Alberth> better make a conveyor belt :p
19:19:45 <andythenorth> original sprites used a conveyor belt
19:19:46 <DanMacK> could be fun. Set it for FIRS version 1000 :P
19:19:49 <andythenorth> but didn't look good :P
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19:22:26 <planetmaker> we're at FIRS version >1650 :-P
19:22:44 <planetmaker> hello DanMacK :-)
19:24:22 * andythenorth starts re-coding the tiresome forge / blacksmith chain :P
19:24:45 <planetmaker> I saw very quick issue solution in the other channel, andythenorth ;-)
19:30:19 <bb10> So I run a server with dedicated OTTD. I have some lag issues though. How can I solve that?
19:33:12 <bb10> It's running 1.1.0b4 btw
19:42:00 <perk11> why isn't it possible to change newgrfs during the game in 1.1.0b4?
19:42:13 <perk11> bb10: what kind of lag issues?
19:42:37 <perk11> I'd been running dedicated server for a while
19:43:50 <bb10> vehicles not moving smoothly
19:44:37 <ABCRic> bb10: excessive cpu load?
19:46:30 <bb10> log has these: [2687551] Client #20 is slow, try increasing [network.]frame_freq to a higher value!
19:48:02 <perk11> maybe it's really a slow client?
19:52:52 <ABCRic> bb10: a slow client will slow down other clients
19:53:17 <ABCRic> either that or it will desync
19:53:55 <Alberth> otherwise, you may want to do a search there
19:54:52 <Alberth> perk11: changing newgrfs was never supported, you were just lucky not to get major problems
19:55:54 <perk11> well, why can't I continue being lucky?
19:56:16 <perk11> isn't the warning enough?
19:56:17 <Alberth> because you are not the only person playing openttd
19:56:41 <Alberth> obviously not, otherwise we'd keep the old behavior :p
19:57:25 <perk11> some grfs definetely create no problems
19:57:39 <perk11> those which only change graphics
19:57:48 <ABCRic> just enable the developer tools
19:58:42 <andythenorth> enable the newgrf developer tools and be prepared for the game going 'boom' :D
19:58:48 <andythenorth> instructions are in ottd wiki
20:04:45 <Alberth> perk11: the program has no way of knowing what changes a newgrf makes
20:11:34 <ABCRic> it could, but no one is willing to do it
20:11:43 <ABCRic> mainly because there's no point
20:12:23 <ABCRic> Terkhen: there's always some way to stuff :P
20:18:05 <Terkhen> from what I know, you can't really determine what callbacks do unless you run all possible combinations, which is not possible to be done in a reasonable time
20:18:32 <ABCRic> like I said, possible, but there's no point
20:19:08 <ABCRic> specially because it would require large amounts of time and work that should be used for other things
20:21:35 <ABCRic> like... cleaning up the flyspray task list?
20:27:34 <Alberth> is there much stuff to clean? afaik there are mostly feature requests there
20:35:05 <Terkhen> does anyone else has "too fast" map scrolling on linux? by scrolling just a bit I can get to the other side of a 1024x1024 map
20:35:16 <Terkhen> and I would like to get more information before digging on this problem
20:43:03 <Alberth> do you use automagic scrolling when near the edge?
20:43:41 <Alberth> ok, just RMB-down scrolling
20:43:45 <frosch123> Terkhen: you are using a vm?
20:44:16 <Alberth> does it behave weird outside OpenTTD?
20:44:58 <Terkhen> yes... since I'm using arch I'm guessing it's some new version of a library
20:45:24 <frosch123> works fine for me, both with sdl and allegro
20:45:37 <Terkhen> which version of sdl?
20:45:38 <Alberth> libSDL-1.2.so.0 => /usr/lib64/libSDL-1.2.so.0
20:46:12 <Terkhen> I seem to be running 1.2.24, I'll try compiling with allegro
20:46:41 <frosch123> 24 ? i doubt there is such a version
20:47:44 <Alberth> SDL-1.2.14-8.fc13.x86_64
20:49:22 <frosch123> Terkhen: anyway, i remember fast-scrolling occuring when using a tablet-like mouse with absolute positioning
20:49:31 <frosch123> like on mobile devices, or sometimes also in vms
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20:50:31 <Terkhen> hmm... I'm using a cheap usb mouse on a physical linux, maybe arch does something strange regarding mouse configuration
20:50:48 <frosch123> ottd takes the difference of the mouse positions for scrolling and then moves the mouse back to the previous position, but for absolute mouse positioning that just fails :p
20:51:05 <Terkhen> I'll check if it is using absolute mouse positioning somehow
20:52:31 <perk11> Terkhen: and how does scrollng with keyboard work?
20:52:31 <Alberth> if you use LMB dragging, the mouse moves with the landscape
20:55:10 <Terkhen> interesting, it works perfectly with allegro
20:55:36 <Terkhen> so it's probably an issue with my version of sdl-1.2.14
20:56:47 <Terkhen> thanks everybody for the advice :)
20:57:27 <Terkhen> I'll check with a vanilla version of sdl to be sure before blaming arch's sdl
20:59:46 <ABCRic> Alberth: feature requests need cleaning too :)
21:00:07 <frosch123> ABCRic: no, you can easily filter for them :p
21:01:35 <Alberth> ABCRic: We could clean them, but people don't have enough space with just one suggestions forum, they need two apparently
21:02:09 <frosch123> Alberth: you forgot the wiki
21:02:18 <ABCRic> with cleaning up I met organizing and (maybe) working on them
21:02:35 <frosch123> though i forgot whether there are two or only one list on the wiki :p
21:03:13 <frosch123> ABCRic: what? who does such things? :p
21:04:50 <Alberth> Luckily, I cannot find such things at the wiki :p
21:07:52 <perk11> why do you want to clean feature requests? what if someone has similar request? he'll just write a comment or vote for the existing one instead of creating a new one
21:08:50 <Alberth> exactly, that's why they stay available
21:08:56 <perk11> oh will see why was it closed
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21:32:33 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: alberth * r21930 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Codechange: Remove unused vehicle GetTypeString() functions.
21:33:19 <Eddi|zuHause> <ABCRic> Terkhen: there's always some way to stuff :P <-- you should urgently go to a theoretical computer science lesson about decidability
21:35:29 <Alberth> not if you don't care about minor problems as finite computation time :)
21:38:24 <Eddi|zuHause> holds for countable time as well :p
21:38:25 <planetmaker> time is finite after all? ;-)
21:38:41 <planetmaker> damn? and countable?
21:38:53 <ABCRic> make stuff now, worry about minor problems later :D
21:39:45 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: if time is quantized, clearly it's countable as well
21:40:29 <planetmaker> So much for the mightyness / cardinality
21:40:47 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: the question is: is it? ;-)
21:41:03 <planetmaker> quod est demonstrandum
21:41:25 <Eddi|zuHause> in an unquantized time, you can do _any_ calculation within 2 seconds, if you start with a clock period of 1 second and halve it in each step :p
21:42:38 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: that's not a property of a continuous set only
21:42:47 <planetmaker> you can do the same on R and Q. And Q is quantized
21:43:00 <Alberth> yeah, I should have said finite computation speed :p
21:43:03 <Eddi|zuHause> Q is not quantized
21:43:04 <planetmaker> actually both are continuous. But Q is cardinal, R not
21:43:16 <Eddi|zuHause> Q is countable, yes
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21:47:08 <andythenorth> are blacksmith forges countable?
21:48:06 <Alberth> defintely, they use non-zeno tile space
21:48:13 <Terkhen> I think so, but I'm not sure about the effort of coding them
21:49:12 <planetmaker> Terkhen: it may just as well be countable and infinite at the same time ;-)
21:50:02 <Alberth> that depends on your unit of effort :)
21:50:46 <Alberth> 'amount of thought' seems pretty non-countable to me :)
21:51:20 <planetmaker> that's why people have so many random, countless thoughs
21:51:26 <planetmaker> have a good night Alberth
21:51:33 <planetmaker> And countless pleasant dreams :-)
21:52:12 <Alberth> and countless non-feasible fantastic ideas for new programs :p
21:52:45 <Terkhen> looks nice andythenorth :)
21:53:39 <Alberth> you do need that white label, andy
21:54:03 <andythenorth> I could put the white label in the grf :P
21:54:41 <Alberth> it looks very nice, but a little too much disguised as a house perhaps
21:54:56 <andythenorth> I'll give it a chimney or such
21:55:05 <andythenorth> it's a town building, there's not much I can do quickly
21:55:18 <andythenorth> it could have a yard
21:55:24 <Alberth> an arrow "this is not a house" :p
21:55:26 <andythenorth> it used to be two tiles, it could be again
21:58:01 <planetmaker> andythenorth: it's missing the horse shoe sign
21:58:32 <planetmaker> or if you want the hammer or whatever.
21:58:44 <planetmaker> It needs *something* to distinguish it from houses slightly
21:59:07 <planetmaker> though you could do that with the ground tiles like ECS / TAI
22:00:15 <andythenorth> planetmaker: how do you distinguish other town industry?
22:00:22 <planetmaker> also: the wall around the garden / courtyard: it needs a wide door to allow horses / wagons to pass through
22:00:23 <andythenorth> e.g. store, petrol pump, builders yard
22:00:33 <andythenorth> I've just deleted the wall :)
22:00:52 <planetmaker> andythenorth: petrol pump has in invisibility mode a petrol sign
22:01:18 <planetmaker> at least the only one I know :-P
22:01:25 <planetmaker> otherwise it's indeed hard
22:02:27 <planetmaker> the brewery, for example is a bit less critical. It's big enough and its style is discernible
22:02:55 <andythenorth> I am coming to really dislike this forge chain :D
22:03:05 <andythenorth> could just locate it out of town
22:07:37 <andrew12> anyone want to explain to me why this game is so addicting?
22:08:00 <ABCRic> andrew12: no special reason :)
22:08:29 <planetmaker> g'night Terkhen :-)
22:08:44 <planetmaker> andythenorth: inside the town is quite nice
22:09:07 <planetmaker> you could force one of the outer town zones, though
22:09:12 <planetmaker> maybe like 4 or 5
22:09:30 <planetmaker> for the ingame construction
22:09:40 <DanMacK> Possibly have an open hearth with chimney on the second tile with piles of ore and iron bits about
22:09:56 <andythenorth> DanMacK: do you want to draw that?
22:10:07 <andythenorth> this one is metal -> ENSP / FMSP
22:10:16 <andythenorth> I need to do a separate ironworks
22:10:20 * DanMacK has to stop making suggestions... lol
22:12:16 <z-MaTRiX_> can someone tell me what is a town?
22:12:39 <z-MaTRiX_> "banks can only built in towns"
22:13:03 <z-MaTRiX_> there is a town with 26000 population
22:13:28 <ABCRic> banks must be built over existing houses
22:13:30 <DanMacK> you have to click on a town building if you're building a bank
22:15:56 <z-MaTRiX_> right now clicking every houses in town
22:17:48 <perk111> I never could build a bank too
22:17:53 *** perk111 is now known as perk11
22:18:40 <andrew12> why does it sometimes only allow me to build "city" airports?
22:19:15 <DanMacK> There's a switch to keep the small airports
22:19:31 <andrew12> but why would it even get rid of them? heh
22:19:41 <Yexo> because it worked that way in ttd
22:20:01 <andrew12> how do i make them not go away?
22:20:22 <Yexo> somewhere in the advanced settings window there is an option "always keep airports"
22:20:32 <Eddi|zuHause> z-MaTRiX_: savegame or it didn't happen.
22:20:44 <andrew12> Construction => Airports Never Expire
22:21:01 <Yexo> andrew12: yes, that's the one
22:23:53 <andythenorth> with a fence around part of it, and some greeble
22:24:03 <andythenorth> and some bigger doors on the building, and a chimney
22:24:31 <z-MaTRiX_> attached the snapshot
22:25:09 <z-MaTRiX_> tried to build bank in "funtown"
22:26:06 <perk11> only one allowed per town
22:27:31 <z-MaTRiX_> it writes to me can only built in towns
22:27:35 <perk11> and I could build one in Wrennway-on-sea
22:28:03 <z-MaTRiX_> but yes it is already one in funtown
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22:29:40 <z-MaTRiX_> btw im using r21916
22:30:17 <perk11> make buildings transparent
22:30:44 <perk11> which are on the same level
22:30:59 <perk11> then you will see the "only one per town" message
22:31:53 <perk11> near the airport, for example
22:33:13 <perk11> btw why is ther 1 bank per town limit? this is sure unrealistic
22:40:49 <__ln__> how well do city walls and railways work together?
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22:55:07 * DanMacK doesn't think there are city walls in OTTD...
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23:01:27 <__ln__> # Bilbo Baggins, he's only three feet tall
23:01:36 <__ln__> # Bilbo Baggins, bravest hobbit of them all
continue to next day ⏵
