IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-01-31
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00:16:40 <DoubleYou> how do i install openttd 1.0.5 next to 1.1.0-beta4?
00:16:54 <DoubleYou> it says 'you have a newer version, setup will now exit'
00:17:06 <DoubleYou> but online games in 1.1.0-beta4 are basically inexistent
00:20:34 <Ammler> DoubleYou: use the zip
00:20:37 <Eddi|zuHause> don't use the installer. download the zip
00:21:14 <DoubleYou> heh sounds logical :)
00:22:27 <Eddi|zuHause> theoretically you should be able to unpack the installer as well, but using the zip is probably easier ;)
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04:42:13 <andrew12> openttd needs some sort of sandbox mode
05:04:45 <Eddi|zuHause> tried ctrl+alt+c?
05:21:48 <andrew12> Eddi|zuHause: that isn't quite what i meant ;)
05:24:54 <andrew12> i mean like a flat world with nothing on it.. and you get to build industries
05:25:09 <andrew12> it'd be useful to test things like junctions to see if you understand them properly.. :p
05:26:09 <andrew12> though making an empty scenario works :p
05:50:21 <andrew12> except the whole "only 1 allowed per town"
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05:57:53 <andrew12> of course, there's an advanced setting for that
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06:26:09 <andrew12> i wonder if this is turing complete ;)
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07:31:33 <Terkhen> andrew12: if you are interested there are some posts about logic gates at the forum
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13:05:23 * Lakie wonders if kemnat realizes the work behind splitting larger projects...
13:11:36 <planetmaker> I meanwhile think that there's a reasonable size and boundaries for projects
13:12:01 <planetmaker> The natural boundaries IMHO are the feature boundaries. Combining them makes it harder for the player without much need coding-wise
13:12:21 <planetmaker> Including a dock in a ship set... well :-)
13:12:26 <planetmaker> those are border cases
13:12:50 <planetmaker> Also one can split e.g. a road vehicle set between busses, trams and trucks
13:12:51 <Lakie> Stations with a train grf?
13:13:01 <planetmaker> nah, they're separate :-)
13:13:05 <planetmaker> They're not really related
13:13:25 <planetmaker> but a station grf with one station: also silly
13:13:41 <planetmaker> so: one station: ok and border-line. But if it gets bigger: better split
13:14:17 <planetmaker> so better split it in the beginning ;-) and sell it as taster station grf... difficult, yes
13:14:48 <Lakie> Heh, well not really difficualt more inconvient
13:14:49 <planetmaker> too many 1-thing grfs bloat the grf list
13:15:02 <planetmaker> difficult decision I meant. Yes :-)
13:15:06 <Lakie> But cherry picking each object / station in a grf is somewhat unfeasable sometimes.
13:15:27 <planetmaker> Cherry picking every single engine in a set like 2ccTS: impossible
13:15:46 <planetmaker> Cherry-picking "steamers", "metro", "small subset": very desirable
13:16:10 <planetmaker> also: no player is forced to use every vehicle.
13:16:23 <planetmaker> even in a MP environment: you can agree to not use vehicle XY
13:16:33 <DanMacK> Exactly... people comment on NARS being too "packed"
13:16:45 <DanMacK> Not many railroads used all locos ;)
13:17:16 <Lakie> Use the ones you like leave the rest...
13:17:21 <Lakie> People do that anyway...
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13:17:48 <planetmaker> yeah. But yes, it makes sense for big vehicle sets to possibly offer the option to cut down the choice to a still logical and sensible subset
13:17:54 * andythenorth couldn't resist replying to the stupid stupid thread
13:17:59 <andythenorth> you're discussing it too?
13:18:04 <andythenorth> where's the fricking wat?
13:18:07 <planetmaker> not sure :-) moin andy
13:18:16 <andythenorth> where's the war?
13:19:04 <andythenorth> apparently I'm at war with someone
13:19:13 <andythenorth> I don't know if I'm a 'designer' or a 'developer' though :P
13:19:18 <planetmaker> gah. why did you mention that thread, andythenorth ? I totally ignored and forgot it - till now :S
13:19:34 <andythenorth> nothing like wasting a short part of our short lives s;P
13:19:58 * andythenorth has is about to get sucked into a flame war like an internet noob
13:20:04 <Lakie> I'd prefer no war, I'd hate to end up having to lock and warn peeps...
13:21:06 <DanMacK> Throw water on it before it's too late :P
13:27:59 <andythenorth> could new objects have tile-based cargo acceptance?
13:28:14 <andythenorth> this would be pure black-hole stuff
13:28:22 <andythenorth> no code to do anything with the cargo
13:28:39 <planetmaker> they know nothing about cargo
13:29:14 <andythenorth> so to get PAX acceptance at something like a lighthouse or hydro-power plant, better to do an industry?
13:30:13 <planetmaker> you'd need to, yes.
13:30:21 <planetmaker> or a house. But you cannot place that...
13:30:25 <Lakie> objects have no code to do with cargo stuff at all... (simplicity was their purpose)
13:30:29 * andythenorth ponders 'eye candy industries'
13:30:43 <andythenorth> what are HQs conceptually?
13:30:45 * planetmaker has an eye candy power plant ;-)
13:30:47 <andythenorth> houses, or 'HQs'
13:31:13 <planetmaker> though they count internally as a kind of special object. At least in OpenTTD
13:31:40 * Lakie was too lazy to have to hack it around...
13:32:05 <andythenorth> I want to do a lightship
13:32:11 <andythenorth> to which I can deliver PAX and stuff
13:32:59 <planetmaker> it would need to be an industry, I guess. Currently there's no other option.
13:33:03 <andythenorth> the world's largest lightship?
13:33:07 <andythenorth> doesn't look that big :P
13:34:56 <Lakie> Hmm... that could be a small problem in testing...
13:35:23 <Lakie> Needs like vista upwards (windows api changes) and only got win7 to test the check is working...
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13:47:08 <Eddi|zuHause> better to do an object and live without the ability to have cargo acceptance
13:47:24 <planetmaker> hm... my e-mail address dedicated to communications with Sun now receives e-mail from Oracle :S
13:47:54 <Lakie> Did Sun get bought by Oracle?
13:48:01 <planetmaker> even though they discontinue everything I ever found interesting to register an e-mail at sun...
13:48:12 <planetmaker> yes, I know too well...
13:51:36 * Lakie wasn't sure, was a while back...
13:52:29 <planetmaker> oracle bought sun, yes.
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16:51:06 * DanMacK thinks enhanced bouys needs to be brought into OTTD
16:51:21 <Terkhen> enhanced in which way?
16:51:56 <DanMacK> as in TTDP to use them as docks
16:52:13 <Eddi|zuHause> DanMacK: nah, that's silly
16:52:29 <Eddi|zuHause> DanMacK: rather "extended docks" need to be brought into ottd
16:53:28 <Eddi|zuHause> like "river docks" that don't need sloped land. or "ocean platforms" if you really need a buoy-like dock in the middle of nowhere
16:54:06 <DanMacK> well, I'd like the ability to have a station alongside a water slope and the ships actually go lengthwise along it
16:54:35 <Ammler> I wonder, shouldn't it be possible to make a oil rig, which does not procude any oil?
16:54:41 <DanMacK> mainly eye candy, I'll admit, but it looks better
16:55:12 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: you can have any industry create a dock/heliport like an oil rig
16:55:18 <planetmaker> yes. But Eddi is right: buoys is the wrong concept. Newgrf ports is proper ;-)
16:55:29 <planetmaker> which allow somewhat arbitrary ground tiles
16:57:32 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: only industries?
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16:57:45 <Ammler> maybe also objects does allow that?
16:57:53 <planetmaker> no, not as station
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18:45:30 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: translators * r21931 /trunk/src/lang/vietnamese.txt:
18:45:30 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:30 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: vietnamese - 81 changes by myquartz
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18:51:29 <IchGuckLive> Hi all ,what happens to the vehicles if they run out of the years ?
18:51:46 <IchGuckLive> will they stop at the depo or break down ?
18:52:12 <Markk> If you have vehicle breakdowns on, yes.
18:52:20 <IchGuckLive> or shoudt i considder to renew them years bevore
18:52:20 <Markk> They will break down more and more often.
18:52:58 <IchGuckLive> 260 trains 120 car
18:53:12 <IchGuckLive> thats alot of work
18:53:38 <Markk> They can renew themself.
18:53:53 <Markk> If you activate it and put some depots here and there.
18:53:58 <IchGuckLive> oh got to find this in wiki
18:54:22 <IchGuckLive> its in the settings ?
18:55:40 <Markk> Advanced Settings -> Vehicles -> Autorenew.
19:00:07 <IchGuckLive> one more Question in the Trailer there are 2 tracks without stations at the cole mine to the left ,WHAT are this for ?
19:00:31 <IchGuckLive> yust spacing to the city
19:01:49 <Eddi|zuHause> it doesn't have any purpose
19:01:53 <Eddi|zuHause> Markk: the intro game
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19:03:19 <andythenorth> DanMacK: interesting freighter :P
19:03:29 <andythenorth> I can't think what cargo that would be :)
19:03:48 <DanMacK> well, I'd say Vehicles...
19:04:01 <DanMacK> but there's no vehicle chain in FIRS :P
19:04:24 <andythenorth> I can't think where steam locomotives would be delivered to :P
19:05:34 <DanMacK> yeah... a harbour maybe...
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19:14:41 <planetmaker> [20:04] <DanMacK> but there's no vehicle chain in FIRS :P <-- some vehicles can perfectly well be farm supplies ;-)
19:15:12 <andythenorth> planetmaker: this one would be stretching that :)
19:26:46 <Eddi|zuHause> does logging into steam take forever for anyone besides me?
19:28:19 * andythenorth is feeling grumpy
19:28:34 <Eddi|zuHause> (i mean that question seriously)
19:29:29 <Terkhen> Eddi|zuHause: it took a bit more seconds than usual but it logged in fine for me
19:30:00 <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: it seems to be done now, but it took way more than a minute for me...
19:31:30 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no comparative data on whether it's because of my relatively low connection bandwidth, or because i'm running wine, or something else...
19:32:16 <starn> openttd and opendune makes me want opensimfarm and opensimearth and others ahahaha :P
19:32:48 <Terkhen> Eddi|zuHause: right now I tried on windows, when I log in under wine it needs more time
19:48:12 <ccfreak2k> Eddi|zuHause, slow all the time?
19:48:30 <Eddi|zuHause> ccfreak2k: pretty much, but this time it was kinda extreme
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20:02:59 <Zuu> lol, I added soo many rail/road level crossings in my last title game without even thinking about that they can be noisy.
20:03:58 <ccfreak2k> dingdingdingdingdingdingdingdingdingding
20:04:08 <frosch123> hmm, when loading a tto game... two-way signals only is a pain :s
20:05:34 <Zuu> well, I didn't even hear a single ding dong with OpenGFX. (I didn't use my hearing aids and my high frequecy hearing is about 40dB worse than lower ferquecies. :-p
20:18:34 <planetmaker> well. OpenGFX has no sounds ;-)
20:18:43 <planetmaker> You need to turn them on by using a sound set :-P
20:27:45 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21932 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): -Document: some tidbits related to vehicles
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20:38:52 <DanMacK> Frosch, that brings back memories... lol
20:40:21 * DanMacK remembers trying to build complex networks in TTO
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20:44:42 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: frosch * r21933 /trunk/src/ (17 files in 3 dirs):
20:44:42 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Split cur_order_index into cur_auto_order_index and cur_real_order_index to keep track of the current real order in an unambiguous way.
20:44:42 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#4440]: Automatic orders behave now stable wrt. service orders and are not added or removed depending on the need of servicing.
20:44:42 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: -Fix: Various other issues with automatic orders, e.g. vehicles getting stuck with "no orders" when there are automatic orders at the end of the order list.
20:48:24 <frosch123> oh, windows knows 'localhost' these days?
20:48:49 <Eddi|zuHause> i actually managed to build one-way rails using two-way signals back then ;)
20:48:51 <perk11> it's been a while since it knew it
20:56:14 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: frosch * r21934 /trunk/src/order_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r21933): The original plan was to run the regression before committing.
21:01:12 <Prof_Frink> I remember the main annoyance being no signals on diagonal track
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21:12:24 <Terkhen> I did not even know about signals back then
21:20:50 * DanMacK learned by watching the AI :P
21:21:46 <Terkhen> didn't you end up with a compulsion to terraform with no reason?
21:26:02 * DanMacK thinks turnouts need to show the direction they're for
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22:16:14 <Nite> is anyone thinking of a reworked service/breakdown system atm?
22:17:32 <Zuu> planetmaker: I ment to say OpenSFX :-D
22:19:29 <Nite> ottd is a silent game for me, all noises are muted always
22:39:35 <planetmaker> good night though. With whatever loud or silent dreams you may wish for :-)
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