IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-01-10
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00:07:48 <Eddi|zuHause> z-MaTRiX_: that wouldn't stop anyone from sending 100.000 requests (and thus DoS-ing the server)
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08:17:10 <zgrillo2004> hi
08:17:29 <zgrillo2004> anyone there
08:18:28 <Rubidium> sorry, last time I saw anyone he was playing on #openttdcoop's public server
08:18:41 <zgrillo2004> I have a question
08:18:44 <zgrillo2004>
08:18:53 <zgrillo2004> this screenshot shows buildings I have not seen
08:18:57 <zgrillo2004> sry if im a noob
08:19:24 <Rubidium> looks like the total town replacement NewGRF
08:19:48 <zgrillo2004> do you know where can I find this?
08:20:07 <Rubidium> probably via the in-game content downloader
08:20:16 <zgrillo2004> hmm let me check
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08:25:22 <zgrillo2004> yahh
08:25:27 <zgrillo2004> *gyah
08:25:32 <zgrillo2004> java screwed up
08:25:35 <zgrillo2004> yea thats it
08:25:37 <zgrillo2004> thanks man
08:25:42 <zgrillo2004> *thumbs up
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08:40:57 <kamnet> You know what would be nice? If tt-forums or offered a shortcut URL service to link to posts in the forums.
08:41:40 <kamnet> Or, alternate idea - would it be okay to open a wiki page for my Scott Joplin Anthology set?
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09:18:22 <kamnet> OK this is crazy, I just added my set to bananas, it shows up, I download, it now disappears
09:19:25 <Rubidium> then you've got the same "version" with another md5 checksum already locally
09:21:09 <kamnet> Hrm... well it's not in the gm directory
09:21:32 <kamnet> of either data/ or content_download/
09:23:19 <Rubidium> No music file for: old_9 (in /home/rubidium/.openttd/content_download/gm/scott_joplin_anthology-2/scott_joplin.obm)
09:23:30 <Rubidium> it's basically missing a file and therefor not showing up
09:23:35 <kamnet> OH
09:23:40 <kamnet> okay I know what I did
09:23:53 <kamnet> people complained about the entertaining being in there twice so I eliminated one.
09:30:24 <kamnet> Grrr... now BaNaNas says I can't upload because there's a file with the exact same footprint
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09:33:50 <peter1138> hrm
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09:38:21 <kamnet> Lovely browser crash
09:38:37 <kamnet> Updated to 2.0.1, downloaded again... still not showing up.
09:39:22 <Rubidium> No music file for: ezy_9 (in /home/rubidium/.openttd/content_download/gm/scott_joplin_anthology-2.0.1/scott_joplin.obm)
09:39:32 <kamnet> *slaps forehead*
09:39:47 <kamnet> OK so it has to have the listing for all the slots there, even if there's no music
09:39:56 <Rubidium> yes
09:43:18 <kamnet> OK now how do I get around this same footprint business?
09:44:14 <Rubidium> the md5 checksum of all midi files is used as unique ID for the set, which is that footprint stuff
09:44:53 <Rubidium> so change one of the midis?
09:44:57 <kamnet> So how do you update a package with, say, a new license?
09:45:09 <Rubidium> you can't
09:45:44 <Rubidium> as for OpenTTD (the binary) both versions would be seen as the same in any case
09:46:10 <kamnet> and apparently you cannot upload a correction in the obm files either
09:46:29 <Rubidium> that's a side effect
09:46:38 <kamnet> a rather large one
09:46:52 <Rubidium> though... people that have the "broken
09:46:55 <kamnet> and no way to delete a package off of bananas once it's been uploaded
09:47:17 <Rubidium> people that have the "broken" obm won't be downloading the new obm because the footprint didn't change
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09:48:47 <Rubidium> yes, it may seem like a stupid design decision
09:49:15 <kamnet> So I'm stuck.
09:49:43 <Rubidium> but... it solves a lot of hassle as comparing the ob? file doesn't work quite as well when it has differing newlines
09:50:45 <Rubidium> well... or I could mess with the database with the possibility to completely break SJA
09:50:49 <kamnet> Nah, it's not stupid... just slightly unyielding to a few issues.
09:52:02 <kamnet> if you mess with it and break it, can you roll the database back?
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09:53:35 <Rubidium> try again
09:53:49 <kamnet> try to upload my new file or download from bananas?
09:53:56 <Rubidium> upload
09:54:07 <Rubidium> as downloading SJA won't work anymore
09:58:51 <kamnet> Eureka! Thank you kindly
10:02:35 <kamnet> I am now tired and retired.
10:02:48 <kamnet> I have to be up in 8 hours for work.
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11:32:33 <Wolf01> hello
11:33:15 <__ln__> how many colors would that contain if there wasn't mode +c?
11:34:05 <Eddi|zuHause> i presume there's an upper limit of one per letter :p
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11:34:56 <__ln__> plus the background
11:35:30 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, you're right
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11:36:49 <zaratustra> wow. this is busy
11:38:13 <fjb> Moin
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11:41:30 <planetmaker> moin
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11:42:48 <fjb> Moin planetmaker, how is the weather over there?
11:43:33 <planetmaker> sunny, about 3°C and clear
11:43:38 <planetmaker> so... not bad :-)
11:44:34 <fjb> Same as here. :-)
11:44:37 <Eddi|zuHause> isn't "over there" like in spitting distance? :p
11:44:45 <Wolf01> foggy and rainy, about 10C
11:45:08 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: almost :-)
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12:04:46 * Wolf01 slaps [Xed]__ around a bit with a large trout
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12:05:51 <fjb> No slapping please. We are a kids friedly channel.
12:06:42 <planetmaker> please don't fry the kids here...
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12:06:50 <Wolf01> lol
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12:08:14 <planetmaker> fjb, and better eat something else also at home, or I'll have to call police ;-)
12:08:52 <fjb> :-P
12:09:41 <Ammler> aren't kids those who slaps and bites the most?
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12:09:52 <fjb> Ammler: Pssssst
12:10:22 <planetmaker> not in fried form...
12:10:41 <planetmaker> or rather not the fried(ly) ones :-P
12:14:12 <Ammler> nightly download broken?
12:15:53 *** [Xed]__ has quit IRC
12:16:25 <Wolf01> mmmh the date functions make extensively use of global variables
12:17:36 <Ammler> us mirror is broken
12:17:40 <Ammler> orudge: ^
12:18:36 <roboboy> Wolf01, I would drop the ly in extensively when used in that context
12:19:20 <Wolf01> yes, I noticed it when I already sent the line
12:19:49 <Ammler> I though, the mirror software does test the mirror and no redirect to broken mirror?
12:21:38 <Ammler> also is it possible, because the us mirror is broken, it got less traffic and therefor more redirects?
12:21:57 <Rubidium> Ammler: the Dutch mirror is broken and out of rotation
12:21:58 <Ammler> and so the chance that europeans got redirected there is higher?
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12:22:31 <Ammler> Rubidium: us too
12:22:53 <Ammler> no recent nightly
12:23:08 <Rubidium> oh, so it's up but mirroring to it failed for some reason
12:23:19 <Rubidium> that's something else than that the mirror is down
12:24:00 <Ammler> never said, it is down :-)
12:24:04 <Ammler> just broken
12:24:10 <Rubidium> broken kinda implies it doesn't work at all
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14:08:16 <Belugas> hello
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14:09:43 <Wolf01> yeah
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14:15:28 <zaratustra> that's kind of depressing, wolf
14:22:30 <roboboy> gnight
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14:23:29 <peter1138> hm
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16:08:00 * peter1138 still gives up on a* :s
16:09:22 <peter1138> i'd copy openttd's, but i'd kinda like to understand it :S
16:11:58 <planetmaker> peter1138, and surely you have read the basics before?*_search_algorithm
16:13:30 <SmatZ> you have open nodes ordered by cost function, f(x)=g(x)+h(x), where g(x) is cost to get to node 'x' from start, and h(x) is the expected price (heuristics) to get from 'x' to end
16:13:44 <SmatZ> h(x) must be <= the actual cost to get from 'x' to end
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16:13:59 <SmatZ> you always examine the node with lowest f(x)
16:15:03 <SmatZ> compute f(y) for nodes reachable from x, and update 'y' if the new cost (from 'x') is lower than currently computed f(y)
16:15:22 <SmatZ> or something like that :)
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16:18:05 <LordAro> moin
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16:25:39 <fjb> Moin LordAro
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16:54:49 <ZirconiumX> hello
16:57:54 <SmatZ> hello
16:58:25 <supermop> hello
16:58:30 <ZirconiumX> hello SmatZ
17:00:59 *** kamnet has quit IRC
17:01:16 <Terkhen> yet another hello
17:01:26 <Zuu> does anyone know a FF plugin that lets you view the png metadata in the browser, so you can checkout the OpenTTD version etc. of screenshots without having to save them first?
17:01:27 <SmatZ> hello :)
17:01:58 <Zuu> oh and hello :-)
17:02:04 <ZirconiumX> hah!
17:02:19 *** ZirconiumX is now known as hello
17:02:27 <Zuu> hello hello
17:02:41 <hello> ;)
17:02:50 <hello> lol
17:03:24 <SmatZ> :)
17:04:06 <hello> 10 hellos
17:04:08 <hello> 11
17:06:58 * hello wonders what life would be like if there was a Hello Transport
17:07:02 <hello> oh damn...
17:07:15 <SmatZ> :P
17:07:17 *** hello is now known as ZirconiumX
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17:21:09 <Eddi|zuHause> is that anything like "Hello Kitty"?
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17:25:19 * ZirconiumX has no idea who hello is, nor what Eddi|zuHause has just said
17:28:03 <deepa> Clearly you should Google it
17:28:53 <ZirconiumX> I know *what* hello kitty is, but not *why* he/she has said it
17:34:08 <deepa> You said Hello Transport
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17:37:24 <frosch123> there is no Goodbye Transport though
17:38:06 <ZirconiumX> frosch123: Just as well really, imagine how dull it would be
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17:49:28 * LordAro wonders what everyone is going on about...
17:49:33 <Zuu> Oh, it looks like my OTTDAU log issues is related to that it thinks current nightlies are stable versions and not the actual log format.
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17:50:50 <Zuu> No idea really why though as the version-format doesn't look like it has changed.
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18:24:21 <peter1138> oh, well, that's bloody embarassing :s
18:24:27 <peter1138> i got astar to work
18:24:43 <peter1138> but i was testing, and it couldn't get from 0,0 to 2,2
18:24:51 <peter1138> spent ages on it :(
18:24:59 <peter1138> turns out that 2,2 is a solid block :S
18:25:07 <planetmaker> :-)
18:29:30 <SmatZ> :)
18:31:08 <ZirconiumX> ;)
18:35:49 <peter1138> cool, it even works on my complex terrain
18:39:35 <peter1138> can take a while though, heh
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18:40:44 * ZirconiumX wishes to know how he got it to work, to help me make SPF
18:40:52 <ZirconiumX> (peter1138)
18:41:14 <peter1138> just looking at the numbers, i can see the path wiggles around a bit :D
18:41:23 <peter1138> SPF?
18:41:33 <ZirconiumX> Super Path Finder
18:41:46 <ZirconiumX> I'm writing a PF for AroAI
18:41:55 <peter1138> ah
18:42:02 <peter1138> well... it's "just" astar, as they say :S
18:42:05 <peter1138> it's inefficient
18:42:21 <ZirconiumX>*_search_algorithm
18:42:35 <ZirconiumX> look at the list at the side, it might help
18:43:02 <peter1138> well it works now
18:43:08 <peter1138> i'll see how efficient it is
18:43:38 <ZirconiumX>*
18:43:56 <ZirconiumX> D* might help, as it doesn't goo for a fixed value
18:44:02 <ZirconiumX> (price)
18:44:08 <ZirconiumX> *go
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18:46:17 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r21766 /trunk/src/lang/ (15 files): (log message trimmed)
18:46:17 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:46:17 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: belarusian - 6 changes by KorneySan, Wowanxm
18:46:17 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: catalan - 1 changes by arnau
18:46:17 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: croatian - 1 changes by VoyagerOne
18:46:18 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: dutch - 1 changes by habell
18:46:18 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: estonian - 1 changes by notAbot
18:48:14 <peter1138> well, i'll probably run the pathfinding in a separate thread
18:49:51 * ZirconiumX is rubbish at noughts and crosses
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19:03:29 * LordAro wonders whether anyone knows of a portable 'make' program...
19:03:43 <ZirconiumX> portable?
19:03:45 <ZirconiumX> gnumake
19:03:50 *** |Jeroen| has quit IRC
19:04:00 <LordAro> yes
19:04:09 <ZirconiumX> why, what do you need it for
19:04:19 <ZirconiumX> I can see if I can do it for you
19:04:30 <ZirconiumX> but use gnumake
19:04:37 <ZirconiumX> if it works on windows
19:05:55 <ZirconiumX>
19:11:09 <fonsinchen> There is no longer a way to add newgrfs to a scenario after starting the scenario editor, is there?
19:11:30 <Eddi|zuHause> set scenario_developer
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19:14:01 <fonsinchen> thanks
19:36:22 <dihedral> oi
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20:11:17 <V453000> how many frames per second does openttd have?
20:17:52 <dihedral> if a day lasts ~2.4s and has 74frames :-)
20:18:34 <V453000> 30.8333333333
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20:42:39 <dihedral> general programming question: say i have a bot, it can handle commands (e.g. @seen), it can be extended with plugins, plugins can introduce another connection to e.g. IRC or XMPP or any other place where a user can enter a command (in this case @seen)
20:43:19 <dihedral> each of these sources for commands provide different information: IRC provides a channel, nick, host, user
20:43:54 <dihedral> OpenTTD for example only available data is ip, username, user id
20:44:11 <dihedral> how would i decently build a template out of that :-P
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20:44:35 <dihedral> have a separate class for users only used in the context of executing commands?
20:44:57 <planetmaker> not everything can be templated and generalized ;-)
20:46:33 <planetmaker> but a UI class would seem to make sense
20:47:51 <blathijs> dihedral: What do you want to template exactly?
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20:49:02 <dihedral> i want to be able to define a command without knowing from where it's called
20:49:18 <dihedral> 'from where' defines things like irc, xmpp, openttd
20:49:22 <dihedral> and console
20:49:22 <blathijs> dihedral: But what does the template render to? The reply to give, or?
20:49:53 <dihedral> how to get hold of information about the user who executed the command
20:49:55 <dihedral> @seen
20:49:55 <DorpsGek> dihedral: seen [<channel>] <nick>
20:50:13 <dihedral> DorpsGek got hold of 'dihedral'
20:50:21 <dihedral> further information is bound to that nick
20:50:29 <dihedral> e.g. user and host
20:50:40 <dihedral> for xmpp and openttd this information is different
20:50:53 <dihedral> i want to generalize how to get hold of that information, yet i do not know exactly how
20:51:12 <dihedral> further, the process of sending a public / private message back to the user :-P
20:51:34 <dihedral> needs to be generalized a bit too, as the command itself is probably not familiar with the exact process for each source
20:51:55 <dihedral> e.g. for OpenTTD i send either a message or a user / company id + a message.
20:52:11 <dihedral> for IRC it's channel name and message for a public message, etc etc
20:53:02 <blathijs> dihedral: Perhaps you could take the context from the original message?
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20:54:29 <blathijs> e.g., message.reply("Some witty reply") gets routed to the right channel and prefixed with the nickname on IRC, or gets tagged with the company id on OpenTTD, etc.
20:56:57 <planetmaker> then define a generic 'responder' class. With methods to talk to and to get information from as virtual
20:57:04 <DJNekkid> are there any known bugs if a rail translation table is larger then 15 entries?
20:57:28 <planetmaker> they'd be in known_bugs.txt ;-)
20:57:38 <planetmaker> so, no, DJNekkid
20:57:55 <planetmaker> but you could also simply ask your question :-P
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21:14:09 <DJNekkid> what about when an engine have defined a tracktype that is not defined by a railtype, then it would simply be ignored, right?
21:18:42 <Wolf01> 'night
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21:19:14 <dihedral> i'll do more thinking about it :-S
21:19:19 <dihedral> good night ;-)
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21:21:55 <snorre> beta3 crash: Signal: Aborted (6), Message: Assertion failed at line 1493 of /usr/src/OpenTTD/compile/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp: GetTunnelBridgeTransportType(tile) != TRANSPORT_RAIL.. known problem?
21:22:14 * dihedral is glad it's not his code :-P
21:22:23 <planetmaker> not that I know
21:22:50 <planetmaker> can you make a bug report about that please, snorre ?
21:22:53 <snorre> ok Im filing a bugreport
21:22:58 <planetmaker> thanks
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21:26:02 <snorre>
21:27:01 <planetmaker> got a crash.png as well?
21:27:44 <snorre> sorry. dedicated server
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21:30:00 <planetmaker> oh, missed that. when is the autosave supposed to crash?
21:30:24 <planetmaker> 1942-1-1...
21:31:21 <planetmaker> confirmed
21:32:22 <dihedral> regarding the landscaping / clearing limit
21:32:53 <dihedral> it is not possible to define a low burst and allow a company to gain a greater than burst limit
21:32:56 * planetmaker wonders wonders whether that's related to the (possible) bancruptcy occuring maybe then...
21:33:18 <dihedral> which could be interesting
21:33:34 <dihedral> i.e. allow a company to landscape like 100 tiles but only in 20 tile blocks at a time
21:33:46 <planetmaker> did you test?
21:33:48 <dihedral> this would though have to introduce yet another config setting
21:34:05 <dihedral> ..._max_limit e.g.
21:34:15 <Terkhen> planetmaker: if that is the case, then it is probably something done while removing company property after bankruptcy
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21:35:02 * planetmaker suspects, so. But will get a bt first
21:35:21 <Ammler> dihedral: a working solution is also simply disallow area-tf
21:35:36 <dihedral> Ammler, how :-)
21:35:45 <dihedral> setting the burst to 1? :-P
21:35:55 <dihedral> or rather 4
21:36:26 <Ammler> the bad guys are too lazy for clicking 100 times :-)
21:37:02 <dihedral> ah wait ... never mind :-)
21:37:22 <Ammler>
21:37:49 <Ammler> now make that with a nicer error msg and you are done :-)
21:38:02 <dihedral> we already have a limiting factor Ammler :-)
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21:38:49 <Ammler> ah ok :-)
21:38:59 <dihedral> @calc 65536 / 74
21:38:59 <DorpsGek> dihedral: 885.621621622
21:39:03 <Ammler> I assume, much complicater that that :-P
21:39:36 <dihedral> so you need burst * 885 to result in burst being added every day if possible? was that correct?
21:39:39 <dihedral> @logs
21:39:39 <DorpsGek> dihedral:
21:42:32 <planetmaker> hmpf. the backtrack could not be more meaningless
21:43:36 <Rubidium> V453000: a tick, when not fast forwarding and having enough CPU power, takes 30ms. Thus a day is 2.22s and there are 33.|3| ticks in a second
21:43:51 <dihedral> planetmaker, if you are right, assuming it be bankruptcy issues, i could only assume the tunnel being removed before the train inside it
21:44:37 <SmatZ> dihedral: I doubt vehicles are removed AFTER properties
21:44:43 <SmatZ> it would have been found long time ago
21:45:27 <planetmaker> yeah
21:45:29 <dihedral> if a company got removed due to bankruptcy in a beta / rc / nightly
21:45:32 <Terkhen> it must be something introduced recently
21:45:42 <planetmaker> might also not be true. It's only the 2nd quarter I'm asked for that company
21:46:02 <Terkhen> as IIRC we got a bankruptcy related bug report a few months ago
21:46:09 <planetmaker> But it's time not for a nice 8-our hibernation mode, commonly called sleep ;-)
21:46:18 <planetmaker> good night :-)
21:46:23 <Terkhen> good night planetmaker
21:46:33 <SmatZ> good night planetmaker :)
21:47:00 <planetmaker> s/not/now/ of course ;-)
21:48:15 <George> Hi. is it possible that one tile is town zone 3, and the nearby tile is zone 1?
21:48:22 <SmatZ> good thing is that it's perfectly reproducible from the last autosave
21:48:28 <SmatZ> wish all bugreports were like that one :)
21:48:40 <SmatZ> George: iirc yes, for big towns, there is no zone 2
21:48:51 <George> why?
21:49:47 <SmatZ> it was probably that way in TTD
21:51:22 <George> Is there any information about it somewhere? I have to change available town zones checks then
21:52:08 <SmatZ> dihedral: ok, there is a train over that bridge :)
21:52:11 <George> I mean Building availability mask (13) for action 0 for houses
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21:52:34 <dihedral> SmatZ, :-)
21:53:24 <SmatZ> hmm
21:53:31 <SmatZ> but the vehicle should be already removed
21:53:52 <SmatZ> ...
21:53:56 <SmatZ> ignoreme
21:54:24 <dihedral> SmatZ, should? or is!
21:54:35 <SmatZ> dihedral: it is removed
21:54:45 <SmatZ> but still CmdLandscapeClear fails
21:54:47 <dihedral> well, something is left over :-P
21:54:54 <dihedral> smoke?
21:54:58 <SmatZ> and rb has patch already :)
21:55:05 <dihedral> what?
21:55:12 <dihedral> this is insanity :-P
21:55:15 <dihedral> Rubidium, you are too quick
21:55:16 <SmatZ> nope, just broken CmdLandscapeClear
21:55:24 <dihedral> hehe
21:55:30 <dihedral> no fair
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21:58:21 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21767 /trunk/src/landscape.cpp: -Fix [FS#4397]: don't limit tile clearing during bankruptcy
22:00:03 <LordAro> dihedral: wait. how did you know Rubidium had fixed it 3 minutes before he committed?
22:00:25 <Rubidium> LordAro: the magic of literacy
22:01:35 <dihedral> LordAro, to be honest i did not see he had committed it until now :-D
22:01:59 <dihedral> but that is an amusing bug :-)
22:02:24 <LordAro> still not really getting how.. a pm? there's nothing in the bug report or here... ?
22:04:10 <dihedral> look again
22:06:10 <LordAro> ok then, how did SmatZ know? :p
22:06:43 <dihedral> assume there to be something like a developers heaven for the official dev team ;-)
22:07:10 <dihedral> if you aint on the official dev team, you aint welcome in their heaven either :-P
22:07:40 * LordAro likes that idea... :D
22:07:42 <dihedral> even if you know how to technically get to that heaven
22:09:14 <dihedral> some means for them to communicate as a team without the public jibber jabber all over the place ;-)
22:09:23 <SmatZ> side channels
22:09:59 * dihedral looks to the side
22:10:02 <dihedral> i see none :-P
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22:10:44 * LordAro wonders about #openttd.notice
22:11:41 <dihedral> that's not it, but you are welcome to join the notice channel ;-)
22:12:04 <LordAro> what's it for?
22:12:12 <dihedral> consider notice to be a 'prophecy' channel with regards to the CIA messages in here :-P
22:12:23 <SmatZ> secret channels are not visible in the /whois list
22:12:24 <Zuu> There is also a channel for AI developers that sometimes has been used by the devs for other discussions but they also have a channel for themself which I don't know the name of.
22:12:36 <dihedral> SmatZ, yet some of us still know :-P
22:12:37 <SmatZ> joining the secret channel results in ban :P
22:12:50 <Rubidium> .notice is also for feedback of the CF
22:13:05 * LordAro wonders about ... :D
22:13:14 <Zuu> LordAro: no
22:13:16 <dihedral> LordAro, you will not find it ;-)
22:13:24 <dihedral> .dev is dead
22:13:29 <dihedral> has not been used in ages
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22:13:52 <LordAro> #openttd.rubidium-is-the-most-awesome-person-ever ?
22:13:54 <LordAro> :D
22:14:25 <Rubidium> LordAro: many seem to disagree with that
22:14:54 <dihedral> 'many' = luukland & co?
22:15:09 <Rubidium> nah, even more
22:15:29 <dihedral> well - 'most awesome' might be over the top :-D
22:17:30 <LordAro> known as (slight) sarcasm :p ...though you're still high up there... :)
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22:19:59 <dihedral> good night :-)
22:20:16 <LordAro> good night dihedral
22:20:30 <SmatZ> night dihedral
22:20:38 <LordAro> ...and everyone else for that matter... :) bye!
22:20:48 <SmatZ> bye LordAro
22:21:30 <Zuu> Sounds like a good idea. Night
22:21:49 <SmatZ> good night to you too, Zuu
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22:58:13 <Terkhen> good night
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