IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-01-09
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00:45:37 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... is there an equivalent figure of speech in english if one were to say "Jetzt ist Sense" [literally: now is 'scythe', meaning "this is the end"]
00:59:17 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln___: doesn't sound very equivalent
01:06:09 <kamnet> Turn out the lights, the party's over?
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01:11:48 <Eddi|zuHause> kamnet: yes, that's the meaning, but it isn't such a nice figure of speach
01:16:37 <kamnet> what do you mean by "nice"? Do you want polite? Cool? Insightful? Meaningful?
01:17:54 <Eddi|zuHause> kamnet: "figuratively"
01:18:21 <Eddi|zuHause> kamnet: "something that you don't get unless you are a native speaker"
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01:29:45 <kamnet> Stick a fork in him/her/it?
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09:14:45 <LordAro> woo! got irssi working :)
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09:23:49 <andythenorth> what is this doing at l576 in road_map.h?
09:23:49 <andythenorth> _me[t].m7 = rot << 6;
09:23:55 <andythenorth> I figure it's rotating bits
09:24:03 <andythenorth> but which ones, and why?
09:24:17 <andythenorth> (and if I move road works counter to m4, do I need to consider this line)
09:25:28 <Alberth> where does it rotate? it only shifts
09:27:00 <andythenorth> rot is a variable, not an operator :m
09:27:37 <Alberth> yep, just like three = 2 does not assign 3 :)
09:31:30 <dihedral> with regex, is it possible to find any lowercase char after a _ and turn that into an uppercase char?
09:32:12 <Alberth> with plain regexp, you can only find things
09:32:30 <Alberth> I know in vim you can change case, but no idea how to say that
09:32:41 <__ln___> regexp is not for replace
09:32:41 <andythenorth> not sure why those bits are shifted
09:33:42 <Alberth> andythenorth: in MakeRoadCrossing they add 'road' without shifting, so I guess that's what the bits are for
09:33:51 <andythenorth> must be to do with setting tram / road on the tile
09:34:12 <andythenorth> so not affected by moving roadworks counter
09:34:44 <andythenorth> but if I move the owner *into* m7 I probably have to think about changing the shift
09:35:42 <Alberth> dihedral: I have not encountered other programs where you can express 'change case' in a regexp (except of course s/_a/_A/ ; s/_b/_B/ etc)
09:36:04 <dihedral> i know perl can do it :-P
09:37:25 <Alberth> I would write a few lines of Python :)
09:37:56 <andythenorth> if I've patched ottd to change which map bits are used, and I load a savegame with no handling of the change, should I get kaboom?
09:38:17 <Alberth> that would be an option :)
09:38:26 <dihedral> sadly i am stuck in java
09:38:34 <Alberth> depending on the exact contents of the save game
09:38:41 <andythenorth> I don't get kaboom yet :(
09:39:06 <andythenorth> I reckon the roadworks counter has a low chance of kaboom
09:39:19 <Alberth> bits at the wrong place may give nicely subtle problems :)
09:39:23 <dihedral> andythenorth, did you tamper with the saveload code
09:39:46 <dihedral> there you probably have it then :-)
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09:41:41 <andythenorth> I should be patching saveload_internal.h?
09:42:41 <dihedral> i have no idea what you are trying to do
09:42:50 <dihedral> what do you think by looking at its contents?
09:43:44 <andythenorth> I think I should look at oldloader_sl.cpp first
09:43:56 <andythenorth> I'm moving the road roadworks counter bits from m7 to m4
09:44:08 <Alberth> I'd expect stuff in afterload somewhere
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09:47:14 <andythenorth> ok I get it I reckon
09:47:22 <andythenorth> not sure what to about it though :)
09:48:48 <Alberth> bool AfterLoadGame() is called after loading, and you can update the data of the game, depending on the loaded game version
09:48:55 <andythenorth> I guess I check savegame version, then move the bits
09:48:59 <andythenorth> it's probably simple?
09:49:25 <Alberth> that would be the idea, I think
09:49:33 <andythenorth> I have to check just for road tiles, or bad things happen
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09:53:57 * LordAro prefers mibbit, but makes a note to use irssi on linux machines...
09:58:48 <dihedral> i do not like mibbit
09:58:57 <dihedral> only use it if there is no alternative
09:59:11 <LordAro> what do you use then? (on windows)
09:59:19 <dihedral> i do not use windows
09:59:38 <dihedral> however, there still is putty + irssi
09:59:54 <dihedral> nice little subtle smile there planetmaker :-)
10:00:56 <Alberth> dihedral: you use windows without Windows
10:00:58 <dihedral> i had windows running in a vm on my laptop, to show someone how well my laptop performed - he was very annoyed when i showed him that it was only a vm :-D
10:01:03 <planetmaker> I mostly smiled at the assumption that *everyone* *has* to use windows at least somehow ;-)
10:01:19 * andythenorth wonders about savegame versions
10:02:27 <andythenorth> planetmaker: should I branch in the roadtypes repo?
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10:28:48 <dihedral> JOHN-SHEPARD, wtf is that for?
10:29:23 <JOHN-SHEPARD> there was a usa politician shot in usa
10:29:33 <JOHN-SHEPARD> and on sarah palin's websight
10:29:39 <JOHN-SHEPARD> there is this image
10:29:53 <JOHN-SHEPARD> its very bad for palin's image
10:30:05 <dihedral> it actually is not even funny
10:30:25 <ZirconiumX> You do realise that any american's *will* push for you to be kicked by that
10:30:26 <__ln___> dihedral: is it supposed to be funny?
10:31:02 <dihedral> and i do not thing it'll affect her image at all :-P
10:31:03 <JOHN-SHEPARD> its not supposed to be funny
10:31:15 <JOHN-SHEPARD> oh yes it will it already does
10:31:34 <JOHN-SHEPARD> but only in usa will you see a politician use such images
10:32:04 <JOHN-SHEPARD> well i feel sorry then
10:32:09 <dihedral> it's a silly image trying to link some politician to some nasty incident
10:32:18 <JOHN-SHEPARD> its on palin's website
10:33:23 <dihedral> and you really believe this woman has something to do with it?
10:34:07 <JOHN-SHEPARD> the last image is added for ironic purposes
10:34:21 <dihedral> if they wanted to get rid of someone by an assassing they have the means to do that in a more decent way
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10:34:35 <dihedral> JOHN-SHEPARD, yes, i can see that ;-)
10:34:39 <JOHN-SHEPARD> it just shows that simple minded people will be taking such maps the wrong way
10:34:45 <JOHN-SHEPARD> so it's dangerous to use such advertising
10:34:52 <JOHN-SHEPARD> and only in use do you see such advertising
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10:35:01 <__ln___> dihedral: nobody suggested palin has anything to do with this directly
10:35:03 <dihedral> anybody can turn anything a politician says around like that
10:35:09 <ZirconiumX> "On The Tragedy in Arizona" My sincere condolences are offered to the family of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and the other victims of today's tragic shooting in Arizona. On behalf of Todd and my family, we all pray for the victims and their families, and for peace and justice. - Sarah Palin
10:35:34 <ZirconiumX> "On The Tragedy in Arizona" My sincere condolences are offered to the family of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and the other victims of today's tragic shooting in Arizona. On behalf of Todd and my family, we all pray for the victims and their families, and for peace and justice. - Sarah Palin
10:35:46 <dihedral> you want to post that again?
10:36:02 <JOHN-SHEPARD> it's just that i live in france
10:36:11 <JOHN-SHEPARD> and i have never seen such advertisement
10:36:18 <JOHN-SHEPARD> where you see a map with targets
10:36:26 <JOHN-SHEPARD> well in europe too
10:37:38 <ZirconiumX> the targets have been taken down
10:38:15 <ZirconiumX> whatever happens within a few hours I bet that Sarah will come under fire for that
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10:42:45 * ZirconiumX does the traditional 5 minutes of mourning
10:46:31 * ZirconiumX wonders how to resurrect the chatroom
10:48:06 <__ln___> dihedral: your comments? is there absolutely no reason to say palin may have been influencing all this?
10:49:08 <dihedral> if pailing was directly or indirectly (knowingly) involved, it would not seem so obvious
10:49:10 <ZirconiumX> methinks that palin rallied, and in a quote, someone shot her for her
10:49:57 <dihedral> it's probably some poor person who took this into his/her own hands (or a group) or totally unrelated and used the chance to cover it up
10:51:03 <ZirconiumX> quote = Sarah Palin; Don't Retreat, Instead - RELOAD!
10:51:22 <ZirconiumX> I agree with you, dihedral
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10:52:06 <__ln___> it was already known from the presidential campaign that death threats against Obama increased in number after each speech by palin.
10:53:15 <ZirconiumX> __ln___: C'est la vie.
10:55:02 <Alberth> it is just too sad for words
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10:58:21 * ZirconiumX attempts to cheer everyone up.
11:01:13 <Alberth> you fixed wheeling of scrollbars?
11:01:18 <dihedral> they are not any better than the far east themselves :-P
11:01:37 * andythenorth is bored of openttd for today
11:01:42 * andythenorth does other things
11:01:54 <Alberth> go build something of lego
11:03:05 <ZirconiumX> set andythenorth=lego
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11:40:05 <tycoondemon> when is new zoom level coming out?
11:44:03 <Rubidium> when it's acceptable?
11:44:25 <tycoondemon> when wil it be that then? :)
11:45:22 <__ln___> what is a new zoom level?
11:45:29 <Rubidium> when those that are interested in it make it acceptable?
11:52:23 <dihedral> hehe - "those that are interested in it" :-P
11:52:25 <Nite> reinstalling here, its not too easy to get to a very derived information
11:53:08 <Nite> which files do i need from the ttd cd and where to place them?
11:58:20 <Nite> thx - so only the *.dat files are needed?
11:58:35 <Nite> i remember it where only two files
11:59:03 <Alberth> last time I installed is > 3 years ago, so no idea any more :)
11:59:03 <peter1138> i'm interested in extra zoom
11:59:11 <peter1138> not enough to write it though
11:59:24 <peter1138> well, i tried once, but gave up with sub-pixel considerations (or something like that)
11:59:36 <__ln___> Nite: wtf are *.dat files in ttd context?
11:59:43 <peter1138> (my effort would've been just doubling sprites)
12:00:55 <Nite> same as in every other context fiels that have the extension "dat"
12:01:33 <Nite> i know some ppl dont even know that files have extensions anymore
12:01:47 <Alberth> the only file I know with that extension for openttd is opntitle.dat
12:02:21 <Nite> couple of demo**.dat files
12:02:28 <Rubidium> those are not used by OpenTTD
12:02:37 <Alberth> all unknown files to me
12:03:05 <peter1138> Alberth, i even tried those algorithms
12:03:14 <peter1138> Alberth, but really, just simple scaling works better
12:03:45 <Alberth> oh. it looked so nice already.
12:03:59 <Nite> ok so i only need files from the data folder
12:04:00 <Rubidium> those algorithms probably work better on the "whole" screen than on the sprites individually
12:04:02 <peter1138> it doesn't for ttd sprites
12:04:27 <Nite> (i copied the whole ttd cd to teh directory, obviously having unneeded files now
12:04:43 <Rubidium> Nite: you need to files that are listed in that file that ought to be read by users but isn't
12:04:47 <Alberth> Rubidium: yeah, that was one of the puzzles I had discovered :)
12:05:13 <Rubidium> Nite: no need to keep asking for something that has been perfectly well explained already at a place you can't be bothered to look
12:07:59 * Rubidium bangs his head on the wall till the grey and red goo stop spilling
12:12:34 * fjb hands Rubidium an Aspirin.
12:14:00 <Nite> i wonder why ottd tries to load "original windows" grf as default
12:15:28 <Rubidium> it all depends on what graphics set is found first while scanning for them
12:15:43 <Nite> maybee because i had installed ottd before and set it to wondows original?
12:16:34 <Rubidium> yes, the configuration file telling it to load the original Windows graphics would pretty much make it prefer the original Windows graphics as well
12:19:04 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21743 /trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#4386]: coast tiles weren't drawn under bridges
12:21:47 <Nite> it wouldn't start so i copied th opengfx to data - it worked started but with original windows gfx that it must have found somewhere on the disc
12:23:04 <Rubidium> it works as described in that file that users ought to read, but apparantly never read
12:23:34 <Nite> no it does not work - i did wierd things
12:24:11 <Nite> its just sunday afer a long night ;)
12:25:10 <Alberth> even 'weird' does weird :)
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12:27:39 <Nite> the thing is i made ottd to always want the original win grf files even when i play with opengfx
12:28:02 <Nite> and i know who to blame - me
12:29:51 <Nite> whoa how did you do it that map downloading is so fast in the latest beta (?)
12:32:51 <Nite> i also like the upgraded saving dialog (saving now works for me in online games again without disconnect) - and teh gameplay changes are cool too
12:35:02 <Nite> but i hear ppl already wanting the oldrealistic acceleration model in ...
12:46:14 <LordAro> random noobish question: If, for some reason, Rubidium were to leave OTTD forever, never to return (:)), who would take over as project leader?
12:46:47 <Alberth> do we have a project leader?
12:47:16 <LordAro> Rubidium is listed as the project leader (somewhere...)
12:47:34 <Nite> "we are all rubidium" *nonsense*
12:49:46 <Nite> its really remarkable how updates in ottd are (almost) never worsegrades ...
12:50:16 <Nite> the "almost" beeing the timetables for me
12:50:41 <Nite> are ppl happy with the timetables at all? or: does anyone use them?
12:51:23 <Ammler> if you don't like those, don't use those, how is that worse?
12:52:01 <Nite> its not worse - but its also not a real timetable
12:52:12 <Nite> and treu i do not use them
12:52:48 <Nite> occasionaly the wait for x days is useable
13:06:40 <Eddi|zuHause> # Sitting in an English garden
13:06:42 <Eddi|zuHause> # Waiting for the sun
13:06:47 <Eddi|zuHause> # If the sun don't come
13:06:49 <Eddi|zuHause> # You get a tan from standing in the English rain
13:08:59 <Eddi|zuHause> Nite: the timetables are fine once they are setup. the setup is a pain...
13:11:54 <Nite> ja, and when vehicles run late it gets more painful
13:12:49 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r21744 /trunk/src/order_cmd.cpp: -Fix: Allow Ctrl+Clicking automatic orders for scrolling to their destination.
13:12:52 <Nite> htat you have to release vehicles manually in the time you want between them makes this pain
13:13:15 <Nite> releas from depot i mean
13:14:13 <Nite> iam thinking of use it more automated with some order (maybee condi order)
13:15:32 <Nite> also i have to admit i have no ide how to introduce maybee another system of timetables
13:15:55 <Nite> what we want i vehicles evenly distributed across the network
13:16:41 <LordAro> hmmm - 'annotating' on http://vcs.openttd.org/svn doesn't seem to work in either chrome nor firefox, with the error: "HTML preview not available, since no preview renderer could handle it." which browser can render it?
13:16:57 <Nite> well it doesent mathers that much with high capacity networks because you just cram as much vehicles as possible on the track there
13:17:58 <Nite> LordAro : works noramlly here
13:18:48 <Eddi|zuHause> Nite: that's what the timetable start date is for
13:22:53 <Alberth> LordAro: I think it was disabled. It is much easier to do it locally with a hg or git clone
13:23:25 <Nite> hmm i dont get what the start date does at all
13:24:07 <LordAro> Alberth: boo. :( what about those of us that can't get hg/git...
13:24:29 <Alberth> what exotic machine are you using?
13:24:40 <Nite> maybee i do not get it - but the vehicle is * days late even without anything set up in the timetables
13:25:33 <Alberth> hg is a python program, should run pretty much anywhere
13:25:38 <Nite> also i dont get whats teh difference between expected and scheduled
13:25:38 <LordAro> Alberth: it's called a computer that i don't have admin rights on
13:26:55 <Nite> well i leave timetables for now again
13:27:27 <LordAro> unless someone can find a .exe version of the installer (there's no official one, at least)
13:27:34 <Nite> getting the russian trains&tram set on bananas would be nice since it is a coool set
13:28:00 <Nite> but is hard to comunicate that because of language barriers (?)
13:29:41 <Alberth> LordAro: you only need python at the machine to install hg afaik
13:30:29 <LordAro> i can (i believe) install hg on it's own, but i cannot install tortoisehg, which is what i'm aiming for
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13:32:10 <Alberth> that would be a much bigger challenge indeed :)
13:33:35 <Eddi|zuHause> yay. apple removed vlc from appstore because of licensing restrictions...
13:35:00 <Alberth> it is such a nice company :p
13:35:16 <Nite> "very cool that you can save newgrf settings out of some online game"
13:35:22 <Eddi|zuHause> well. at least they care about not violating the GPL :p
13:35:59 <Eddi|zuHause> Nite: wtf are you talking about?
13:38:37 <Nite> saving presets of teh newgrf list
13:39:21 <Alberth> wouldn't you simply save the game instead?
13:41:10 <Nite> true could do that also - but i only wanted some params of newgrfs but as preset ...
13:45:46 <Eddi|zuHause> "David E. Kelley's new project 'Wonder Woman' failed the presentation. none of the networks will pick it up as a pilot this season. The CW and NBC can't raise the licensing money, CBS is cautious because of the 'Bionic Woman' desaster, ABC already has own comic adaptions in progress ('Hulk', 'AKA Jessica Jones') and FOX doesn't see it fitting into the program at all. Due to the expected costs of the prestige project, no cable channel is
13:45:48 <Eddi|zuHause> expected to be able to pick it up"
13:48:15 <Eddi|zuHause> sometimes the market is just saturated and not ready for certain ideas
13:53:21 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r21745 /trunk/src/newgrf_canal.cpp: -Fix: [NewGRF] Canal variable 80 shall return consistent heights within a lock.
13:54:18 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r21746 /trunk/src/newgrf_canal.cpp: -Fix: [NewGRF] Canal variable 83 accessed water random bits also for non-water tiles (e.g. watery industries or objects).
13:55:47 <Alberth> wonder woman does not really sound ground breaking :)
13:56:59 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: if you look over the stuff that got picked up over the last decade, almost none of the ideas really are ground breaking...
13:57:09 <fjb> Do wonder women wear wonder bras?
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14:55:36 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21747 /trunk/src/tilearea.cpp: -Fix [FS#4395]: the diagonal iterator would iterate twice over some tiles (fonsinchen)
15:09:07 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r21748 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files in 2 dirs):
15:09:07 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
15:09:07 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: czech - 1 changes by SmatZ
15:09:07 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: norwegian_bokmal - 20 changes by leaderroy
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15:14:35 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21749 /trunk/ (6 files in 4 dirs): -Prepare: for 1.1.0-beta3
15:21:17 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21750 /tags/1.1.0-beta3/: -Release: 1.1.0-beta3
15:22:53 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r21751 /trunk/src/rail_gui.cpp: -Fix: Re-initialize the stationpicker data when newgrf classes have disappeared.
15:23:11 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r21752 /trunk/src/rail_gui.cpp: -Doc: document the stationpicker widgets and variables.
15:24:52 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r21753 /trunk/src/rail_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Use a widget for the coverage text, and re-init instead of resize to adapt for height changes.
15:25:49 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r21754 /trunk/src/widget.cpp: -Codechange: Scroll the matrix widget to make a clicked entry fully visible.
15:28:00 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r21755 /trunk/src/rail_gui.cpp: -Feature: Display newgrf station sprites during station picking.
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15:31:27 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r21756 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt rail_gui.cpp): -Add: Display name of the selected station type in the station picker window.
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15:33:20 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r21757 /trunk/src/rail_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Use a list instead of a dropdown for selecting the station classes.
15:33:59 <Zuu> Looks nice @ last commits by Alberth
15:34:17 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r21758 /trunk/src/rail_gui.cpp: -Add: Allow vertical resizing of the stationpicker window.
15:35:12 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r21759 /trunk/src/rail_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Increase the initial horizontal size of the stationpicker slightly.
15:35:36 * ZirconiumX approves of the changes
15:36:11 <deepa> But you're using Mibbit
15:36:26 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r21760 /trunk/src/window.cpp: -Fix (r20452): Restore wheeling of vertical scrollbars.
15:36:36 <ZirconiumX> it's working now, I know what the problem was
15:37:09 <Alberth> Zuu: I hope you like it :)
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15:37:59 <Zuu> I haven't tried the patch but have seen the discussions at tt-forums and it looks promising.
15:37:59 <ZirconiumX> I linked directly to the chat client, and I think the main page finds out what IP I have, so it knows which account was logged on.
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15:39:25 <Zuu> Isn't your commits about the station building GUI?
15:39:51 <Zuu> But maybe it is your own implementation rather than what has been on display at the forums.
15:40:06 <Alberth> Zuu: yes, I made it from scratch
15:40:26 <LordAro> Alberth: was it your intention to miss beta-3 by 7 minutes? ;)
15:41:18 <Alberth> now you have two new exciting versions :)
15:41:46 <Zuu> LordAro: Commiting major changes just before a public release is usually not optimal.
15:41:52 <Alberth> ZirconiumX: it is not in beta-3, but that was not by accident
15:42:20 <ABCRic> Zuu: it's called beta for a reason :D
15:42:21 <LordAro> so, yes, it was your intention :)
15:42:29 <LordAro> ZirconiumX: your explanation of why mibbit was failing is wrong, i think it was just them with server problems...
15:43:53 <Zuu> ABCRic: Never the less it yeilds more feedback and bug reports than the trunk builds. So if Alberth have made any obvious mistakes trunk users will find it and they will be fixed before the broad masses report the error many more times.
15:44:37 <ZirconiumX> well, if it's beta-3 why isn't it on the main page?
15:44:45 <ABCRic> I'm sure Alberth did everything alright :)
15:44:50 <Zuu> Also if a show-stopper sneaks in to a public release, then all the manual work is wasted and less subtile bugs will not be found untill manual work is spent on another beta.
15:45:01 <Alberth> ZirconiumX: beause it does not exist yet
15:45:17 <Alberth> ABCRic: as with beta-1, I reckon :)
15:45:21 <LordAro> ZirconiumX: is still being compiled, or will be shortly
15:45:24 <Rubidium> ZirconiumX: because we don't have the processing power to build 15 binaries instantly
15:45:41 <LordAro> take your pick from 3 answers :D
15:45:42 <Zuu> Also they need to propagate to all mirror servers.
15:46:37 <ZirconiumX> Alberth's answer I pick
15:46:49 <ABCRic> Alberth: are you done committing? I'd like to know if I can compile yet :)
15:46:51 <Alberth> ZirconiumX: there is an easy fix for it. Download the source, and compile it yourself.
15:47:06 <Alberth> ABCRic: for now, yes I am
15:47:22 <ABCRic> ok, compiling time then :D
15:48:36 <LordAro> Rubidium: roughly how long does it take to compile 15 binaries (and publish them)?
15:48:42 <ZirconiumX> use correct shell, that might help /self talk
15:49:04 <Rubidium> LordAro: currently a little over an hour
15:49:35 <ZirconiumX> Rubidium: that's not bad at all
15:49:58 <ABCRic> Rubidium: with how many machines?
15:49:58 <LordAro> considering i could compile around 3-5 times in an hour...
15:50:26 <ZirconiumX> 4 minutes a binary
15:51:04 <LordAro> Rubidium: so we can expect beta-3 around 16:30 (GMT)?
15:51:22 <ZirconiumX> 12-20 minutes for LordAro
15:51:49 <LordAro> :D only because of ancient computers...
15:52:00 <ZirconiumX> What speed do you have?
15:53:18 <ZirconiumX> 1Ghz, or on my dead comp 600Mhz
15:57:29 <Alberth> LordAro: I once build a new kernel in 3 hours :)
15:58:17 <LordAro> is that bad? i don't know kernel compiling times...
15:58:26 * ZirconiumX wishes that libiconv would be detected, so fish ./configure will work...
15:58:56 * planetmaker once compiled one two days long
15:59:19 <planetmaker> just for fun on an old machine ;-)
15:59:27 <ABCRic> Alberth: mouse wheel scrolling of the station sprite menu doesn't seem to be working :(
16:00:07 * Alberth knows, but it is a general matrix widget problem
16:00:36 <Alberth> I just started looking into it
16:01:21 <ZirconiumX> planetmaker, is the option to change the revision --revision=rXXXXX
16:01:31 <Alberth> and wheeling on the scrollbar works, but is very slow
16:01:58 <Alberth> ZirconiumX: normally, download a repo, and it gets computed automagically
16:02:45 <planetmaker> well. it does. But not the corresponding svn version. Which on needs in order to join servers
16:02:46 <Alberth> oh you do get a revision, it just doesn't start with 'r' :)
16:03:24 <Alberth> hmm, it doesn't? there was code for it in the build scripts, wasn't there
16:03:26 <planetmaker> ZirconiumX, for these questions we have ./configure --help ;-) - but yes
16:03:39 <planetmaker> Alberth, not that I know
16:04:15 <planetmaker> The problem with that is: you cannot make it failsafe
16:05:03 <planetmaker> if we did, I could commit my own stuff to the hg repo with a specially crafted commit message and the version detection would pick it up as whatever svn version
16:05:23 <planetmaker> or even if I just commit some things - what would it show?
16:05:37 <Alberth> so what? ./configure --revision=... now works too
16:06:02 <Alberth> a changed version should show a HG number imho
16:06:04 <planetmaker> that's the general override
16:06:21 <planetmaker> Alberth, but if I commit something on top of the official hg pull. Is it changed?
16:06:25 <planetmaker> How would I know?
16:06:36 <planetmaker> or in between, some merge
16:06:37 <Alberth> no revision number in the commit
16:06:52 <fonsinchen> Just edit rev.cpp and you can fake any revision you like.
16:06:58 <fonsinchen> This is how I do it.
16:07:03 <planetmaker> bad advice, though
16:07:12 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: what if you pull in a trunk merge, and your change is buried >20 revisions ago?
16:07:23 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: how do you detect the modification?
16:07:49 <Alberth> you have to merge your changes again don't you?
16:08:22 <Alberth> so the top is "merged" afaik
16:08:43 <Alberth> but I always use a branch, so perhaps if you don't do that ...
16:08:58 <planetmaker> then we do a hg rebase... ;-)
16:09:03 <Eddi|zuHause> i think there are different ways to do "merge commits"
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16:09:52 <Alberth> you'd have to rebase trunk on top of your changes, then yes, it causes havoc. duh
16:11:09 <planetmaker> I somewhere have a small patch for myself which actually solves this exact problem... - but in the simplest way possible: reading the last commit message
16:11:31 <planetmaker> and then deciding upon a --revision=rXXX or not
16:12:03 <Alberth> I think it is pretty complicated to get a commit from trunk on top of something modifications, if you do sane things only
16:12:44 <LordAro> planetmaker: i was going to say, surely it can't be any more difficult than doing that... (but perhaps it is)
16:13:43 <Alberth> planetmaker: like line 110 in findversion.sh? :)
16:14:13 <planetmaker> LordAro, it is. If my local commit message reads like " (svn r21760) -Fix (r20452): Nice little daylength mod to trunk r21760"
16:15:32 <planetmaker> Alberth, ah, yes. I think I even then only re-used it in the other place
16:16:46 <ZirconiumX> ...And now we wait...
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18:44:24 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r21761 /trunk/src/rail_gui.cpp: -Add: Wheel-scrolling in the new build station GUI.
18:45:33 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r21762 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files):
18:45:33 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:33 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: english_US - 1 changes by Rubidium
18:45:33 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: hungarian - 1 changes by IPG
18:45:33 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: korean - 1 changes by junho2813
18:45:35 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: norwegian_bokmal - 21 changes by leaderroy
18:45:35 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: swedish - 1 changes by Ledel
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18:50:55 <JOHN-SHEPARD> why is it so easy to block someone from building stuff in the game
18:51:04 <JOHN-SHEPARD> theres a guy that got mad for some reason
18:51:12 <JOHN-SHEPARD> and blocked my station by buying the land in front of it
18:51:20 <JOHN-SHEPARD> this is retarded
18:52:06 <JOHN-SHEPARD> some polish server or whatever
18:53:12 <Rubidium> please tell us how to prevent someone from blocking you in a reliable manner
18:53:43 <JOHN-SHEPARD> the little land card
18:53:46 <Rubidium> and if someone gets mad, talk to the admin of the server you're playing on
18:53:46 <JOHN-SHEPARD> take it out or something
18:53:55 <JOHN-SHEPARD> make an area around a station to avoid this kind of things
18:54:01 <ABCRic> Maybe a setting to define whether buying land is allowed or not.
18:54:10 <JOHN-SHEPARD> they were together
18:54:10 <Rubidium> JOHN-SHEPARD: but then they'll just build something else
18:54:16 <Yexo> and instead of buying land that griever would just build some rail there instead
18:54:29 <JOHN-SHEPARD> what are good servers
18:54:32 <JOHN-SHEPARD> with good players
18:54:45 <JOHN-SHEPARD> and not some kids who get mad at the slightest things
18:54:46 <Rubidium> and the fun thing is that rails are *easier* and *cheaper* to build than those land flags
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18:55:44 <JOHN-SHEPARD> its pathetic to see such behavior
18:55:50 <JOHN-SHEPARD> from some players
18:55:57 <dihedral> what i would define as good someone else might not
18:56:06 <JOHN-SHEPARD> a good game where people play fair
18:56:11 <JOHN-SHEPARD> and dont block others paths
18:56:24 <JOHN-SHEPARD> thats exploiting
18:56:27 <dihedral> i had one of those :-P
18:56:30 <Rubidium> so basically a server with an active admin/moderator
18:57:42 <JOHN-SHEPARD> the little idiot ruined one hour of good gaming
18:57:56 <Rubidium> which sadly enough is only a minority of the servers
18:58:12 <Rubidium> JOHN-SHEPARD: true, but there's nothing that can be done about it technically
18:59:31 <Rubidium> well, besides letting the players not build stuff. But that kinda breaks the whole multiplayer as watching industries to be founded and closed is extremely boring
19:00:57 <Rubidium> though try something like the #openttdcoop welcome server
19:01:10 <Rubidium> that has some moderation if/when you ask for it
19:01:27 <dihedral> JOHN-SHEPARD, which version of OpenTTD are you playing?
19:07:06 <dihedral> "latest" is vague ;-)
19:07:08 <peter1138> latest isn't a version :D
19:07:44 <Alberth> not latest by a long shot :)
19:08:32 <Alberth> you can call it latest stable, but there is also latest 1.1 beta, and latest nightly
19:09:03 * dihedral looks forward to 1.1.0 :-)
19:09:54 <Alberth> I never play stable versions :)
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19:10:08 * peter1138 never plays any version
19:10:20 * andythenorth occasionally plays some version
19:10:34 <andythenorth> when I do, it's a specific version
19:10:47 <andythenorth> 'hg up any' doesn't work :P
19:23:29 <Rubidium> Alberth: what dihedral means is that with 1.1.0 openttd-python will be completely broken and people will basically have to use his stuff :)
19:28:10 <Alberth> oh, getting users because competition gets broken :)
19:30:34 <dihedral> no - i might consider using my own stuff ^^
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20:16:30 <planetmaker> omg, what kind of shouting nick had been shouting around here lately?
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20:22:34 <ANDYTHENORTH> how is your ill?
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20:39:20 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r21763 /trunk/src/ (widget.cpp widget_type.h): -Codechange: Pass the distance to Scrollbar::UpdatePosition() in units of small or big steps.
20:40:47 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r21764 /trunk/src/widget.cpp: -Change: Make the scrollbar associated to a NWidgetMatrix scroll in steps of the matrix when using the wheel or the scrollbar-buttons.
20:52:57 <Rubidium> error: question ambiguous
20:52:57 <Alberth> we have a station picker in trunk many years already :)
20:53:20 <Ammler> I don't get that forum comment
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20:53:50 <Alberth> and it remains to be seen whether it is a station gui, since it is src/rail_gui.cpp :)
20:54:44 <DorpsGek> Alberth: Commit by alberth :: r21755 trunk/src/rail_gui.cpp (2011-01-09 15:27:48 UTC)
20:54:45 <DorpsGek> Alberth: -Feature: Display newgrf station sprites during station picking.
20:55:08 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21765 /trunk/src/road_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#4369]: PBS reservation was not shown on road crossings with NewGRF railtypes (andythenorth)
20:55:32 <Alberth> although there are 5 or 6 after that to finish the gui job :)
20:55:33 <Ammler> ah, right after beta3 :-P
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20:57:00 <andythenorth> I now have 2 credits in commits
20:57:09 <Rubidium> but... that's not the station GUI; FS#2401 is about the improved stations GUI
20:57:43 <Ammler> he, you should have called it "better station gui" :-P
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21:14:45 <planetmaker> everything has to be called New<Whatever>
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21:15:32 <Alberth> template <class T> New<T> ?
21:16:53 <Rubidium> "yet another" is prefered over "new new"
21:17:27 <Chris_Booth> "yet another again" instead of "new new new"?
21:17:48 <LordAro> andythenorth: well done on trunking at least part of your level crossings patch :D
21:17:49 <TrueBrain> no, then follows: "More Bullshit"
21:17:57 <planetmaker> NewNew would be so much cooler! :-P
21:18:14 <planetmaker> especially in time when we end up with NewNewNewNewNewStations
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21:19:14 <planetmaker> it would also be anti-discriminating for people with certain speach problems ;-)
21:19:26 <frosch> how many "New"s can be abbreviated with one "Realistic"?
21:19:54 <andythenorth> just start calling things 'Final'
21:20:16 <andythenorth> I have seen so many web projects with a folder called 'Foo Final'
21:20:21 <Chris_Booth> andythenorth: then finalfinal?
21:20:21 <andythenorth> followed by 'Foo Final Final'
21:20:29 <andythenorth> 'Foo Final Final Amended'
21:20:51 <andythenorth> people are weak thinkers :P
21:20:58 <Chris_Booth> maybe just a nice numbering system, like v0.0.0
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21:21:22 <Chris_Booth> or trust me this is the final edit I am going to make for a few weeks
21:21:29 <andythenorth> I predict RoadTypes0xDF might make trunk
21:22:39 <Rubidium> andythenorth: extended byte ;)
21:26:38 <andythenorth> more bloody likely
21:29:45 <x> Hi, anybody know how to add openttd on my n97 ?
21:30:26 <orudge> no, I was impressed you could get a single-letter nickname
21:30:29 <orudge> and I'm afraid I can't
21:30:48 <orudge> there's a thread in the forums about that, I think
21:30:53 <dihedral> you just cannot register it ;-)
21:30:56 <Rubidium> I'd say, try to find the symbian port and use that
21:31:00 <orudge> there are unofficial ports to assorted portable devices
21:31:17 <ovh> i have installed but its not work.
21:31:46 <ovh> the req libraries is not for my fone
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21:31:58 <Rubidium> but beyond that I'm somewhat of an old fashions mobile phone users; it can make a phone call, but nothing more
21:33:07 <ovh> Oke, when the game will stop ?, no more units and so on... ?
21:33:40 <Rubidium> there'll be no new vehicle types after 2050, but it doesn't quite "stop" then
21:33:54 <Rubidium> many people even start in 2050 as they can't be bothered with the introduction of new vehicles
21:34:21 <ovh> but i want more vehicles :P
21:34:28 <Zuu> There is a practical limit of aronud 1500 trains but the theoretical limit is way higher.
21:34:45 <LordAro> how do you commit a .patch file with mercurial?
21:36:10 <planetmaker> or just patch and commit...
21:36:36 <LordAro> haven't got patch installed - only mercurial
21:36:56 <LordAro> (so it's still possible, just harder, and more likely to go wrong ;) )
21:37:23 <Chris_Booth> Zuu: I disagree, I have network on my save list on 512^2 maps with way more than 1500 trains
21:37:37 <Chris_Booth> ok the are 3 tile trains but still more than 1500
21:38:03 <Chris_Booth> but then I am not a normal player
21:38:23 <Chris_Booth> most people dont build 8 lane MLs arround there maps
21:38:29 <Rubidium> Chris_Booth: practical is more in the sense of network games getting too heavy for many of the clients
21:38:31 <Zuu> Around 1500 is what is the common guideline of what a normal computer can do. But there are many factors that influence that.
21:38:51 <Rubidium> if you want you could run a million half-tile trains
21:39:20 <planetmaker> I think the vehicle limit is 5000 per type and company ;-)
21:39:28 <planetmaker> unless you modify source - or did that change?
21:39:44 <Chris_Booth> Rubidium: half tiles trains would be stupid, 1 tile would be smallest parcticle
21:40:03 <ovh> Anybody knows how to modify costs/running costs?
21:40:08 <Chris_Booth> planetmaker: does that count in SP#?
21:40:17 <planetmaker> ovh, via newgrf. or difficulty setting
21:40:28 <planetmaker> only from main menu
21:40:46 <Zuu> ovh: Check out the base cost mod NewGRF.
21:41:25 <ovh> i dont find that in check onlne... i use beta2
21:41:29 <planetmaker> and set the running cost base cost to like 4 or so ;-)
21:41:30 <Zuu> If you're on a nightly/beta you get a convient GUI (compared to what it was before) for it.
21:41:33 <Rubidium> Chris_Booth: but then it'd be only half a million one tile trains
21:42:28 <Zuu> hmm, and they will never be allowed to emit smoke or sparks?
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22:08:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i had this crazy idea: scratch the possibility of ever introducing infrastructure sharing, and instead run TrainController+pathfinder for each company in a thread
22:09:22 <Eddi|zuHause> won't work for road vehicles as they influence each other
22:09:24 <Rubidium> what about level crossings?
22:09:54 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: that will need to be handled after the thread synching
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22:18:57 <Terkhen> good night andythenorth
22:24:39 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: even then vehicle moving (which takes quite a big chunk of the time) needs to be synced as they're modifying the vehicle hash
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22:25:18 <Eddi|zuHause> synched per company only
22:25:50 <Rubidium> dirty bits are global
22:26:04 <Eddi|zuHause> what do you mean dirty bits?
22:26:13 <Rubidium> dirty bits on the viewport
22:26:23 <Eddi|zuHause> you don't repaint during the tick
22:26:24 <Rubidium> i.e. the pieces that need to be redrawn
22:26:41 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: but you mark them as needs to be redrawn
22:26:56 <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. the hash only needs to have valid states after the thread synching
22:27:07 <Eddi|zuHause> which means all you need is a thread-safe hashtable
22:27:23 <Rubidium> which basically means locking
22:27:39 <Eddi|zuHause> which is certainly not trivial, but can't be an unsurmountable hurdle
22:28:08 <Rubidium> but it's doing loads and loads of work for usually little benefit
22:28:49 <Rubidium> as how often are there so many companies with lots of trains that the overhead of threading really pays off?
22:28:53 <Eddi|zuHause> not a majority of the vehicle movement code involves updating the hashtable. which means there's still plenty to be done besides waiting for the hash-lock to be resolved
22:29:39 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: don't know, that can only be found out by testing
22:30:07 <Rubidium> I seem to remember that SmatZ did something like this, but without locking
22:31:20 <Rubidium> when it worked it was a whopping N% faster on multi core, but >N% slower on single core. N was a relatively small number
22:32:20 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but i can't really think of other parts to be multithreaded without tearing the whole game engine apart
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22:46:49 <SmatZ> there was some experiment with multithreading
22:46:54 <SmatZ> with not very interesting results
22:58:56 * SmatZ got that "how could that code ever work?" feeling
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23:07:01 <SmatZ> after ispecting the code, it was pure luck
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23:35:12 <z-MaTRiX_> seems like my company password was changed in multiplayer
23:36:27 <z-MaTRiX_> wanted to suggest 3 password tries in 10 minutes or smg like that...
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23:37:35 <Ammler> security for company passwords in openttd is already way over the need
23:37:37 <z-MaTRiX_> or i should use 16 char pass
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23:38:32 <Eddi|zuHause> even 1 try per second should prevent bruteforcing
23:38:38 <Eddi|zuHause> if that is what you're after
23:39:22 <Eddi|zuHause> so, where is your patch?
23:41:23 <z-MaTRiX_> i didnt make any patches yet, currently im patching my cnc machine
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23:44:58 <z-MaTRiX_> 1 second patch would look like inserting sleep(1) before checkpassword
23:55:38 <Yexo> z-MaTRiX_: anyone with access to rcon can move himself to your company and set a new password without the need to know the old one
23:56:16 <Yexo> so before you assume someone has bruteforced your password look at the other options your password could've been changed
continue to next day ⏵
