IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-01-11
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00:13:40 * Mazur remembers a time when any mention of a Web item made me simply look it up.
00:14:14 <Mazur> Innocent times, happy times.
00:15:46 <SmatZ> I click like 90% of links that appear at IRC
00:16:52 <peter1138> it's not picking the best path :S
00:17:09 <SmatZ> perhaps your heurictic is wrong?
00:17:23 <Mazur> Yeah, trains are stubborn little fellas.
00:17:25 <SmatZ> eg. h(x) is greater than the actual cost?
00:18:46 <peter1138> well, i don't think so, heh
00:19:03 <peter1138> it's just sqrtf(x*x+y*y+z*z)
00:19:18 * SmatZ just wanted to say that :)
00:19:28 <Yexo> should work, although you lose all advantages A* has over normal dijkstra
00:25:05 <peter1138> changed it to manhatten, and it works better
00:28:14 <ccfreak2k> peter1138, what is that?
00:28:32 <ccfreak2k> Pythagorean theorum?
00:30:13 <__ln__> no imperial variant of it?
00:30:36 <Mazur> The distance as the spider makes its line.
00:31:12 <Mazur> Quite independant of the units used.
00:31:21 <Mazur> Or is tha not what you meant?
00:32:57 <peter1138> maybe being 3D is stumping it :S
00:35:21 <Mazur> Most space tends to be it, though.
00:36:13 <SmatZ> [01:19:50] <peter1138> it's just sqrtf(x*x+y*y+z*z) <== to improve performance, you could compare g(x)*g(x)+x*x+y*y+z*z instead of g(x)+sqrt(x*x+y*y+z*z)
00:36:41 <SmatZ> (useless comment of the minute)
00:39:46 <Mazur> Calculations like that may go wrong if you ignore the possibility of the argument between the brackets overflowing an integer and it does.
00:40:05 <Mazur> vmstat used top do that, until I fixed it.
00:42:10 <Mazur> Happened if you left it running for x days, forgot what x was. Then 100*interval overflowed te integer they used for calculations/.
00:47:44 <Mazur> Or was it ticks? Or centiseconds.
00:51:08 <peter1138> hmm, well, it uses the tunnels
01:00:05 <peter1138> ok, gotta have a bug somewhere :s
01:00:12 <peter1138> probably all over it, hehe
01:03:54 <peter1138> (for that is what they are)
01:13:26 <peter1138> Mazur, coordinates are up to about 2000 max
01:13:44 <peter1138> it doesn't overflow :)
01:16:42 <Mazur> Just thoughtr I'd mention it.
01:18:35 <Ylioppilas> I should sneak in my sister's room and steal her mouse :(
01:18:46 <Ylioppilas> playing on trackpad is frustrating :D
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02:24:17 <peter1138> gah, more odd paths :(
02:36:53 <peter1138> i don't know if my algorithm is messed up, or if it's just the costs
02:38:01 <peter1138> i get the best path by discounting height
02:38:28 <peter1138> but then it has difficulties with reaching some things
02:39:13 <peter1138> if it's underneath the point then the cost becomes 0
03:01:07 <glx> A* doesn't like negative costs
03:07:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> you could say "A* totally fails with negative costs"
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03:13:42 <peter1138> who said it's negative?
03:52:10 <peter1138> it works better when the algorithm is correct
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04:39:06 <peter1138> except it's now really slow
04:46:00 <peter1138> it's like ships, except nearly every node is traversible :p
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09:39:34 <peter1138> right, now that i (think i) understand a*
09:39:41 <peter1138> i should optimise it a bit :p
09:40:20 <peter1138> i switched from pythagoras to manhatten again. seems to work quite well, and hits less tiles
09:57:29 <peter1138> so it was quite fast when the algorithm was wrong :p
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10:01:27 <planetmaker> shit. we got desyncs on the beta3 - server again :-(
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10:32:34 <DJNekkid> can anyone familiar with nfo see how they read this code? as far as i can see should it do what the comments say, but ingame wont it autoselect
10:52:39 <peter1138> hmm, well, changed the closed list to a hash and it fails ;D
10:53:01 <peter1138> ahh, lol, i forgot to include z in the hash :p
10:58:55 <peter1138> yay, works perfectly
10:59:00 <peter1138> and about 5 million times faster
11:19:58 <planetmaker> DJNekkid, looking at that code: don't modify a user parameter. It has pitfalls. Better introduce an internal parameter for such things
11:21:21 <DJNekkid> im not sure if i follow
11:23:35 <DJNekkid> but either way, im gonna take a nap now (im on strong painkillers). bak in about 2hrs
11:24:05 <planetmaker> I can only recommend you my code I wrote for OpenGFX+Trains.
11:24:37 <planetmaker> Which I adopted also for HEQS, so there it is found in NFO
11:25:00 <planetmaker> setting the running and purchase costs based on parameter and / or available (other) newgrfs
11:25:57 <peter1138> hmm, now... how to handle doors...
11:26:10 <peter1138> and allow for traversing through water... hmm...
11:26:40 <peter1138> water means 26 possible directions, hurr
11:27:12 <peter1138> ok, maybe allow swimming :D
11:27:22 <peter1138> on the surface that is
11:28:12 * planetmaker wonders why peter1138 gives us here a live feed on mine craft programming adventures...
11:29:26 <peter1138> wait until i do a fully 3d map for ottd...
11:30:16 <peter1138> and also because my minecraft server users haven't the foggiest idea on anything like programming let alone algorithms, heh
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12:40:49 <planetmaker> oh, ChillCore made a wonderful argument, I'll remember that: "Yes, in real life that can happen and does happen but in real life you can not adjust the daylength factor."
12:57:13 <Ammler> planetmaker: can you fix that?
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12:59:55 <Ammler> sometimes, the rl should be changed like the game and not always change the game for realism
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13:04:57 <planetmaker> I shall have a look at that
13:14:59 <V453000> guess I should not comment on realism in game :p
13:16:25 * Lakie thinks people forget that they (people) often escape to games as a repreive from reality...
13:20:42 * planetmaker agrees with Lakie
13:21:00 <planetmaker> and waves 'hello' to him and frosch123
13:21:32 <frosch123> afternoon everyone .)
14:05:00 <Belugas> V453000, no, indeed, you should not :)
14:05:07 <Belugas> and you'd better not!
14:06:44 <Belugas> [08:14] <V453000> guess I should not comment on realism in game :p <-- that
14:07:11 <Belugas> because it's useless and leading nowhere
14:09:01 <V453000> we could agree on that if such realistic things werent added :p
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14:10:59 <Belugas> my realism sucks. when i came in, last night, my wife and my kid were sobbing over the lifeless body of our old fatefull 27" sony triniton tv
14:11:19 <Belugas> so i prefer to play non realistic openttd
14:11:43 <Belugas> or use my brand new soldering iron.
14:12:07 <V453000> well my realism doesnt suck but I am stronly against bending openttd to look more realistic :p so lets say we agree
14:14:36 <Belugas> mmh... yet another certification regression test plan to start
14:33:02 <Rubidium> V453000: but OpenTTD is extremely realistic; it is a perfect match for its universe. How can a model be any more realistic than being exactly the same as the universe it tries to model?
14:34:19 <ujjain> cool, Dutch documentation!
14:35:21 <ujjain> is openttd hard to learn?
14:36:57 <burkek> one evening to learn, lifetime to master
14:37:48 <ujjain> hehe :) Everything advantage has a disadvantage?
14:38:08 <Belugas> and it depends on what you want to learn
14:38:59 <ujjain> grf / signals < don't know what that is
14:42:38 <Belugas> then, it is not important for now ;)
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15:21:04 <Belugas> bank processing test, need to break connetion
15:21:09 <Belugas> i think i'll quit for now...
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16:41:02 * DanM waits for his alter-ego to ping out
16:41:44 <Ammler> /msg nickserv ghost|regain
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16:46:11 <LordAro> i thought it was a password, and i didn't read the bit above :)
16:46:29 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r21768 /trunk/src/tilearea.cpp: -Fix [FS#4396]: Diagonal tile iterator needed a special case for A * 0 selections.
16:54:24 * DanMacK 's bot-detector goes haywire
16:54:35 <ZirconiumX> It contains a virus
16:55:01 * ZirconiumX thanks Mozilla for the download prompt
16:56:06 <LordAro> well, "OPENSKY Connection Manager.exe" doesn't exactly sound too good, does it?
16:59:25 <ZirconiumX> I think the program's a trojan
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17:04:35 <SmatZ> I reported him at #oftc, he should be banned now
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17:05:32 <Belugas> certif execution is finished
17:05:40 <Belugas> got to grab the results now
17:26:31 <verm__> TrueBrain: so i used your linux->osx cross-build instructions and got it working
17:26:42 <verm__> with the latest compiler from apple
17:27:00 <TrueBrain> nice to know stuff still works
17:27:26 <verm__> almost nothing works in that document but the commandlines were helpful :)
17:27:39 <TrueBrain> it has been written 2 years ago .. :)
17:28:02 <TrueBrain> but yeah, principles should hold :)
17:28:05 <verm__> some of your patches got applied upstream at odctools
17:28:19 <TrueBrain> ah, yeah, they told me :)
17:28:34 <verm__> they updated ld64 which broke things (a lot of missing headers)
17:28:39 <TrueBrain> for some reason my page became really popular, and I still wonder why ....
17:28:46 <verm__> the latest compiler has several issues
17:28:57 <verm__> which i fixed.. now it works fine
17:29:10 <verm__> TrueBrain: well i'm only using this for tinderbox purposes
17:30:18 <verm__> better explanation than i could give i suppose
17:30:53 <verm__> i use my mac for other things and didn't want builds running on it
17:31:57 <TrueBrain> I still wonder why so few people wrote documentation about OSX cross compiling ...
17:32:02 <TrueBrain> guess because OSX sucks :D :D
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17:34:56 <TrueBrain> (I have a mac myself, but ssstttt)
17:35:49 <planetmaker> verm__, maybe you write an updated version?
17:41:18 <verm__> planetmaker: yeah i considered it, i may do that eventually when i un-lazy myself
17:41:54 <verm__> i only use unix myself (freebsd/solaris etc)
17:41:59 <TrueBrain> imagine if I did that with the documentation, being lazy :D
17:42:04 <verm__> i've got a few linux vms, a windows machine and osx for development o nly
17:42:18 <verm__> well software documentation is different than writing a walkthrough :)
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18:19:49 <ZirconiumX> if in doubt make -i
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18:30:56 * ZirconiumX thinks that the typo of hi is cool
18:31:29 * ZirconiumX is getting irritated by compile
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18:36:44 <mbruins_> Your 'sample.cat' file is corrupted or missing! You can find 'sample.cat' on your Transport Tycoon Deluxe CD-ROM.
18:36:47 <mbruins_> is dont not have that cd
18:36:54 <mbruins_> can i leech the file somewhere or will that be illegal?
18:37:19 <SmatZ> please don't distribute illegal stuff here
18:37:23 <mbruins_> could you explain 'abandonware'?
18:37:30 <KenjiE20> ttdlx isn't abandonware
18:37:31 <mbruins_> SmatZ: did not know that was illegal
18:37:45 <SmatZ> mbruins_: you can download opensfx, opengfx and openmsx
18:37:49 <KenjiE20> OpenTTD has the option to get OpenXFS/no sound
18:37:57 <SmatZ> if you have windows installer, it even asks you if you want to download them
18:38:12 <mbruins_> i try to run openttd on debian
18:38:31 <KenjiE20> I think should do it
18:38:46 <KenjiE20> sorry ~/.openttd/sample.cat
18:38:57 <SmatZ> maybe there are better ways though :)
18:39:27 <SmatZ> well, readme.txt says what should be done :)
18:39:40 <mbruins_> hm alright i quess i need to read moer
18:39:57 <planetmaker> mbruins_: you should not need a sample.cat
18:40:06 <planetmaker> Use the free laternative
18:41:24 <planetmaker> KenjiE20: that trick no longer works. As it's not needed to work.
18:45:38 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r21769 /trunk/src/lang/ (latvian.txt serbian.txt swedish.txt):
18:45:38 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:38 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: latvian - 21 changes by dzhins
18:45:38 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: serbian - 8 changes by etran
18:45:38 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: swedish - 2 changes by Ledel
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19:10:59 * Rubidium wonders what version mbruins was using; sounds like 0.6 era ;)
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20:21:20 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... the civ5-way of preventing cache-desyncs: upon joining of one player, all players reload the game...
20:22:50 <SpComb> restart your worker process every 1000 requests to avoid memory leaks
20:23:46 <dihedral> i had something for you with regards to apache, but i totally forgot - some setting regarding 'mutex'-something
20:24:48 <dihedral> it resulted in apache services often requireing restarts due to not anymore accepting connections for some reason i have forgotten right now, to not be needed anymore
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21:03:09 <Rubidium> fonsinchen: in case "Transfer: X / Income: Y" is shown, and you're zoomed out one level you get "Transfer: X" instead
21:03:43 <Rubidium> that's quite noticable as the "Transfer: X" is in big letters whereas the other floaters are all small
21:04:25 <Rubidium> so you're missing a string; looking at the diff you're actually missing two strings
21:05:04 <Rubidium> "TINY" versions of STR_FEEDER_INCOME and STR_FEEDER_COST
21:08:06 <fonsinchen> Thanks, I'll take care of that.
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21:47:21 <Keiya> Has anyone hacked signals to show 'danger' when there's no train in front of it?
21:48:07 <SmatZ> only when train approaches, it turns green
21:48:16 <Keiya> (Similar to how real train signals (and road traffic signals, and alarms in factories, and...) default to the 'danger' sign)
21:48:40 <SmatZ> signals in OpenTTD are either green or red
21:49:03 <Keiya> SmatZ: Yeah, that's basically the right visual behavior. I was just wondering if anyone'd hacked it onto the normal signals so I can get the effect without the nastyness of PBS-everywhere
21:49:33 <SmatZ> it wouldn't be that easy to do
21:49:37 <planetmaker> Keiya: that's not really possible, unless you just re-draw the graphics
21:49:48 <SmatZ> eg. pathfinders look at the state of signal
21:49:51 <supermop> i wouldn't call pbs nasty...
21:49:54 <planetmaker> it'd mean they never show green, though
21:49:59 <Terkhen> can't you code it as a newgrf that just switches the red-green sprites?
21:50:20 <planetmaker> Terkhen: rather red and red ;-)
21:50:42 <Keiya> supermop: PBS is nice when you need it, but using it everywhere tends to lead to weird network bugs, in my experience.
21:51:54 <Keiya> Ah well. It's not like I spend most of my time staring at signals anyway.
21:52:44 <supermop> ive never had a problem, even in complex systems
21:54:11 <Keiya> It's probably caused as much by my bad building as PBS, just I can force things a little more with traditional signals :P
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23:39:23 <George> frosch123: Could you have a look at FS#4399 ?
23:42:42 <frosch123> can you post some examples what stuff can be archieved with that?
23:50:32 <George> The reson to do that is that when I create ARV I can use only first 128 IDs
23:54:27 <George> So, when I ran out of 128 IDs I had to use IDs below 128 to represent the graphics of several vehicles
23:55:13 <George> But I can't get information what graphics to use, because I do not know the ID of the previous part
23:55:30 <George> because it is a wagon, the ID of the train is useless
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23:57:14 <frosch123> so you are basically heading for the first articulated part
continue to next day ⏵
