IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-12-25
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00:10:46 <Wolf01> 'night and merry xmas to everybody
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07:11:40 <Terkhen> good morning and merry christmas!
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08:23:20 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21630 /trunk/projects/determineversion.vbs: -Fix (r20308, r21615): version detection of subversion branches and tags got broken
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09:20:29 <TrueBrain> and that on xmas day :D
09:30:06 <Zuu> Just for information, the ftp.snt.utwente.nl mirror seem to not have synced last nightly. Hopefully next nightly will work as usal.
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11:16:58 <fjb> Moin, fröhliches Konsumfest, happy consumption celebration.
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11:21:11 <IchGuckLive> Hi all ,Happy holyday around the world B)
11:21:28 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... anyone learned proper grammar in school? anyone can explain to me the discrepancy between "sich erschrecken" -> "ich habe mich erschrocken" [strong verb] and "jmd. erschrecken" -> "ich habe dich erschreckt" [weak verb]?
11:22:12 <IchGuckLive> Eddi|zuHause: not me ! O.o
11:23:00 <Eddi|zuHause> IchGuckLive: you don't have signals at the end of the platform
11:23:12 <IchGuckLive> the train in the picture blocks the hole Station only one train can be in at the time igot PBS-oneway at the entrence and out to all tracks
11:23:51 <IchGuckLive> Eddi|zuHause: whitch shoudt i put there
11:24:01 <Eddi|zuHause> IchGuckLive: two-way path signals
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11:33:08 <ccfreak2k> <TomyLobo> dont ask a german about german grammar rules
11:33:09 <ccfreak2k> <TomyLobo> we just apply them, we dont necessarily know them
11:36:10 <Eddi|zuHause> ccfreak2k: that's why i asked in a non-german channel!
11:36:35 <ccfreak2k> Yeah apparently Germans don't have as much interest in the whys as English-speakers do.
11:37:00 <Eddi|zuHause> ccfreak2k: it has nothing to do with German vs. English
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11:37:09 <ccfreak2k> I didn't say it did.
11:37:09 <Eddi|zuHause> ccfreak2k: it has to do with native vs. non-native
11:39:00 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: it doesn't really explain why either...
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11:50:13 <IchGuckLive> the trains now move up to the platform and block it
11:50:39 <Eddi|zuHause> IchGuckLive: that signal is turned the wrong way
11:51:26 <Eddi|zuHause> IchGuckLive: signals must be facing the platform
11:51:56 <IchGuckLive> the red part facing the platform
12:08:45 <Eddi|zuHause> IchGuckLive: the signal isn't much use when the driver can't see it, is it?
12:20:32 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21631 /trunk/src/pathfinder/opf/opf_ship.cpp: (log message trimmed)
12:20:32 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#4325]: ships with the old pathfinder would easily show up as lost, even
12:20:32 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: when it would eventually find a path. Now also the distance from the "end" of
12:20:32 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: the pathfinding run to the destination is compared to the current distance to
12:20:32 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: the destination; if the distance to the destination at the end of the pathfinder
12:20:33 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: run is less than the current distance from the destination the ship won't be
12:20:35 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: marked as lost. This means that the ships with the old pathfinder will less
12:23:49 <IchGuckLive> Question what can i doo to make a Town take goods i piled up at a station many of them but thewre is no city within 100tiles to take it
12:25:01 <IchGuckLive> there are 4 citys of <400people around
12:25:02 <Alberth> make it grow, deliver passengers in the town
12:25:28 <Alberth> or look further than 100 tiles :)
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12:27:25 <Alberth> if you click at the town, sometimes the window displays cargoes that it needs to grow
12:27:38 <Alberth> (only in climates where that is relevant)
12:29:34 <IchGuckLive> can i transport goods with ships
12:30:27 <Alberth> open the ship vehicle list, and look at the ships you can buy (a button at the bottom somewhere)
12:30:28 <IchGuckLive> ok does a ship station need any access to a train or road the pattern gives me it takes goods
12:31:20 <IchGuckLive> there is direct a housee behind the place where i will put it
12:32:05 <Alberth> just before you place the dock, the placement window shows whether goods are accepted
12:32:47 <Alberth> I don't understand the question then
12:33:05 <IchGuckLive> so it does not matter if there is any following thing beond
12:33:34 <Alberth> dock is just a station for ships, it follows the same rules as all other stations
12:35:52 <IchGuckLive> ok i made a channel to the goodds producer
12:38:32 <IchGuckLive> hovercraft does not take goods thats bad
12:43:17 <Alberth> if you are in a hurry, trains are faster than ships
12:44:14 <IchGuckLive> but a train has to go araund the hole 3/4 map
12:44:39 <z-MaTRiX> why cant hovercraft hover on land? :(
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12:47:13 <Mazur> Because there are no harbour-ramps.
12:47:19 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: smatz * r21632 /trunk/src/ (viewport.cpp window.cpp): -Codechange: call ResetObjectToPlace() even when current place_mode is HT_NONE
12:48:35 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: smatz * r21633 /trunk/src/order_gui.cpp: -Fix (r21616): newly created skip-to order was created at wrong place
12:49:51 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21634 /trunk/ (config.lib src/os/unix/unix.cpp): -Codechange: apparantly the "broken" iconv interface is the new official interface, so update the variable/definition naming slightly as it's not broken just different from the earlier iconv interface
12:57:51 <IchGuckLive> what is heli +Depo
13:01:39 <Eddi|zuHause> a heliport with a depot (to buy/maintain helicopters), obviously
13:05:41 <IchGuckLive> got it thanks and end for today BY
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13:35:24 <Sacro> merry christmas everyoneast
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15:41:35 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21635 /trunk/src/os/windows/ottdres.rc.in: -Change: simplify/reduce release preparations/changes
15:51:33 <Wolf01> he's working on xmas :|
15:53:26 <Rubidium> Christmas is in two weeks
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17:35:07 <Nite> i wonder about setting the parameterst of basecostmod3
17:35:45 <Alberth> I think you should first look for the author :)
17:35:46 <Nite> how does the system know i want 1 and 19 and not 11 and 9 ??
17:36:17 <Nite> well i hope someone is here who uses it and knows
17:36:39 <Alberth> if you have more than one parameter, you should add a comma in between afaik
17:37:16 <Nite> i only have one parameter
17:37:37 <Nite> it should use id one and multiply it
17:38:29 <glx> I guess this newgrf has a readme
17:38:41 <Nite> but it doesent explain it
17:39:11 <Nite> so 111 is DI1 ond multiplied 3 times
17:39:46 <Nite> but how does it know it is not ID11 halfed 9 times ?
17:40:44 <Alberth> perhaps they interpret the number themselves (ie divide by 100 -> get '1')
17:40:55 <Nite> but you can use as many parameters as u want
17:41:33 <Nite> every parameter describes the iD yof costs you want to multiply (or hlaf)
17:41:59 <Alberth> your best chance is to either ask the author, or decode the grf to nfo, and read that
17:42:04 <Nite> and how much you want to multiply it
17:43:01 <Nite> ok sry its pairs of parameters
17:43:01 <Alberth> it looks like an internal interpretation issue that few people besides the author know
17:43:39 <glx> it's id exp+8 id exp+8 id exp+8
17:44:53 <glx> so 1 9 doubles build track cost, 1 7 halves it
17:46:06 <glx> and you can't multiply 3 times ;)
17:46:34 <Nite> i meant useing the power of 2 3 times
17:47:07 <glx> so 1 11 for build track * 8
17:47:08 <Nite> now i know that pairs of params are used everything is clear
17:48:17 <Nite> 1 10 woudl be ID1 * xxx³ ?
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17:49:33 <Nite> ig et it it is just hard to write it down ;)
17:52:24 <planetmaker> new_val_param1 = old_val_param1 * 2^(param2-8)
17:52:41 <planetmaker> always in those pairs of param1 and param2.
17:52:47 <planetmaker> param1 is a base cost ID
17:53:02 <planetmaker> and param2 the new value. Where a value of 8 is the default for *cost values
18:00:21 <Nite> again i only overread that bascostmod uses PAirs of params ...
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18:00:53 <Nite> ah brienetta is still alive ;)
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18:17:45 <Eddi|zuHause> <Rubidium> Christmas is in two weeks <- Jesus' birth probably wasn't in december at all, and almost certainly not 2010 years ago.
18:23:35 <Nite> and jesus "probably" also wasn't born without mary having sexual intercourse ...
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18:26:57 <peter1138> In two weeks isn't in December either :D
18:29:37 <Nite> some say 2013 was last year
18:32:30 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: well, it is, if you count in julian calendar :p
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18:45:29 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r21636 /trunk/src/lang/ (esperanto.txt polish.txt slovenian.txt turkish.txt):
18:45:29 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:29 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: esperanto - 10 changes by Christopher
18:45:29 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: polish - 6 changes by wojteks86
18:45:29 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: slovenian - 1 changes by ntadej
18:45:31 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: turkish - 3 changes by niw3
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19:01:07 <andythenorth> did christmas get shipped yet?
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19:47:38 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21637 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: make it more clear that IS_PALETTE_COLOUR belongs to TextColour
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19:49:19 <ZirconiumX> (you always call a dev/mod sir, you don't know what they may do...)
19:49:39 <Alberth> albert is fine too :)
19:50:17 <Alberth> just making random changes in code, trying to figure out how to change it :)
19:50:31 <ZirconiumX> Right, I guess the thing that I have to bring up, though I hate having to, is my pathfinder
19:50:43 <ZirconiumX> meh, randomness is the spice of life
19:51:37 <Alberth> don't know whether I can help you, but give it a shot
19:52:40 <ZirconiumX> I want to create nodes in a arrangement that will be show in the pastebin afterwards, O is no node, X is node there
19:53:58 <ZirconiumX> meh, hello other good sir
19:54:14 <ZirconiumX> *random tic tac toe*
19:55:13 <ZirconiumX> *excited at the fact I'm talking to the guys who let me play 1.1.0-beta1*
19:55:43 <ZirconiumX> I have many identities, the one you may recognise on the forums is OTTDmaster
19:56:44 <ZirconiumX> I personally think I need to talk to TrueBrain about my AI
19:57:14 <ZirconiumX> After all, he wrote the road pathfinder
19:57:43 <ZirconiumX> but he doesn't appear to be here
19:58:00 * planetmaker points at the date...
19:58:16 * TrueBrain points at his reply to the PM he received earlier today ...
19:58:46 <ZirconiumX> *goes off to play with Xmas toys*
19:59:02 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r21638 /trunk/src/viewport.cpp: -Codechange (r1): Simplify testing that outersize.x is bigger than 0.
19:59:15 <TrueBrain> you sure it is r1, or pre-r1? :D
19:59:38 <ZirconiumX> rUNKNOWN as PM put it
20:00:11 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21639 /trunk/src/ (gfx.cpp table/palettes.h): -Codechange: simplify setting the colour remap
20:00:35 <ZirconiumX> woot two updates in two minutes
20:01:28 <Eddi|zuHause> kids are so easy to impress at christmas time.
20:01:34 <Alberth> ZirconiumX: it's my first commit today!
20:02:12 <ZirconiumX> put this in my sig
20:02:19 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21640 /trunk/src/ (gfx.cpp gfx_type.h): -Change/Feature-ish: allow disabling the shading when drawing text
20:02:57 <ZirconiumX> Change/Feature-*ish*|
20:03:01 <Alberth> you get these bursts every now and then
20:03:27 <ZirconiumX> I'm a witness to three changes of the trunk
20:03:39 <Eddi|zuHause> -ish is Rubidium's favourite word-ending
20:04:02 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: yes-ish :)
20:04:34 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: but I especially like km-ish/h :)
20:04:47 <planetmaker> ZirconiumX: if we have an average of about 7 to 8 per day, it has to be done somewhen...
20:04:52 <ZirconiumX> I've been doing AI debugging, and it's impossible to know the difference between { and (
20:05:14 <Eddi|zuHause> use a better editor
20:05:22 <Eddi|zuHause> one that lets you select fonts
20:05:45 <Eddi|zuHause> oh. that you mean.
20:05:50 <ZirconiumX> courier in plain text suits me fine
20:05:54 <Eddi|zuHause> well, you can select fonts for the game as well ;)
20:06:21 <ZirconiumX> *makkes note to do improved font for openGFX*
20:06:57 <ZirconiumX> *no-one really cares about ^^*
20:07:30 <Alberth> wouldn't running with -d ai=2 or so be more useful?
20:07:49 <ZirconiumX> that setting doesn't work on mac
20:08:03 <planetmaker> it does quite well
20:08:13 <Alberth> more likely, you don't know how to enter it :)
20:08:20 * Eddi|zuHause mumbles something about cliche
20:08:26 <ZirconiumX> I go to a homebrew patched version
20:08:37 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: don't bother, we know :)
20:08:46 <ZirconiumX> it somehow does the debug console
20:09:45 <ZirconiumX> If you listen more, and become wiser, then if you quit, do you become dumber?
20:10:38 <Rubidium> IIRC it was automatic orders not being removed when a station was removed, and thus showing invalid station and later a completely different station
20:10:46 <ZirconiumX> anyway, see you if/when I do.
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20:11:09 <Rubidium> and the departure/arrival times not being shown when there were some automatic orders
20:13:51 <planetmaker> good night, Alberth
20:14:57 <Rubidium> fonsinchen: I ask you to explain that change because you end up with if (expression) break; break;, i.e. the if statement is completely removed
20:15:19 <Rubidium> and that doesn't sound okay to me; the if has to be placed there for some reason
20:19:03 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... the kid really put seven random IRC lines in his sig?
20:23:19 <fonsinchen> I had a reason for that break/return thing ...
20:24:40 <fonsinchen> we don't want to increment the order index if we haven't reached the destination station
20:24:52 <fonsinchen> as the order _index_ always points to the next manual order
20:25:05 <fonsinchen> the current_order is the actual (possibly automatic) order
20:25:37 <fonsinchen> this is why I changed it to return. The only thing happening in that function after this statement is IncrementOrderIndex after all.
20:26:25 <fonsinchen> oh, I actually changed it the other way round.
20:26:35 * fonsinchen has to think about that some more.
20:27:01 <Eddi|zuHause> is there [gui] functionality to turn an automatic order into a manual order?
20:27:54 <fonsinchen> you can delete and recreate it
20:28:16 <Eddi|zuHause> that's not really what i had in mind :p
20:29:31 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean something like: you let it make one round, and then click a button to "fix" the schedule
20:29:59 <Eddi|zuHause> also, autofill timetable could work like that.
20:30:18 <fonsinchen> Rubidium: actually it's the other way round. The Vehicle::current_order is always the next manual order. Vehicle::cur_order_index points to the real next (possibly automatic) order.
20:30:45 <Eddi|zuHause> it always records the last trip time, and at any point you please you might click on "fix this timetable"
20:30:54 <fonsinchen> So at that place we have to increment the order index, no matter if the station we have reached is the final destination of the current order or only a stop in-between
20:31:20 <fonsinchen> Of course I could have just removed that line, but somehow I didn't get that idea.
20:32:17 <Eddi|zuHause> this has the advantage that you also get a hint about arrival times at automatic orders
20:32:23 <fonsinchen> Eddi|zuHause: This shouldn't be too hard to implement but I don't want to bloat the patch.
20:33:30 <Wolf01> mmmh, I might need a "go-via xyz if not busy"
20:34:18 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: formulate "busy" in terms that are evaluatable in conditional orders?
20:34:35 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... that's probably not a word :p
20:35:12 <Wolf01> when you are "waiting for free path" and the next block contains your "go-via" waypoint/station
20:35:50 <Wolf01> I'm sure I can do the same work by balancing the penalties
20:36:28 <Eddi|zuHause> that's really something you should leave to the pathfinder penalties
20:36:38 <Eddi|zuHause> or possibly restricted/programmable signals
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20:54:34 <planetmaker> picasa's face recognition is frighteningly good...
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21:15:20 <andythenorth> how much does a passenger weigh?
21:15:23 <andythenorth> or how many per t
21:15:47 <fonsinchen> Rubidium: I've cleaned up the dead code in vehicle.cpp, applied your changes and pushed a new version.
21:16:07 <Wolf01> mmm auto-orders started to break my orders, I use non-stop and auto orders between the last one and the non-stop one make trains stop at every station
21:16:56 <fonsinchen> Wolf01: can I see a savegame, please?
21:16:59 <peter1138> which is a pretty reasonable figure
21:17:00 <Wolf01> I need to manually set non-stop to all auto-orders
21:17:07 * andythenorth thinks a ferry that carries 218 PAX probably doesn't refit to just 13t of cargo though :)
21:17:14 <andythenorth> something in between
21:17:32 <peter1138> something in between?
21:18:31 <fonsinchen> Wolf01: the behaviour shouldn't change with auto-orders, only the visualization.
21:19:10 <Wolf01> now trains stop in the station I use for reversing, before they didn't
21:19:49 <fonsinchen> I'd like to see a savegame, so that I can examine the problem.
21:20:29 * andythenorth hopes for a new landscape generator for christmas
21:20:56 <andythenorth> incidentally, I couldn't find a varaction 2 to check the system datetime
21:21:27 <andythenorth> I was thinking of some seasonal industries :P
21:21:28 <fonsinchen> what version is that?
21:21:44 <andythenorth> christmas tree farming chain, only available one day of the year
21:22:21 <fonsinchen> that doesn't have auto-orders
21:22:41 <fonsinchen> so probably nightly 21636 with auto-orders patch applied?
21:23:09 <Wolf01> I have orders with an (S) which there weren't
21:23:43 <fonsinchen> That must be something different.
21:24:42 <fonsinchen> this is not a savegame for plain 21636
21:24:54 <fonsinchen> can you tell me the version string from the main GUI please?
21:25:58 <Wolf01> it's plain r21636, I just dlded it
21:26:37 <fonsinchen> ah, well, the savegame isn't fully downloaded, yet ...
21:26:58 <Wolf01> maybe you need to download "some" grf
21:29:46 <fonsinchen> well, 15 minutes ... the server isn't that fast, is it?
21:30:22 <Eddi|zuHause> i've had downloads that take 2 weeks :p
21:31:56 <Wolf01> I can upload at 10-15kb/s max
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21:37:04 <Wolf01> uhm, the orders with that (S) are from a waypoint (N)orth and (S)outh, maybe I loaded the wrong savegame
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22:44:57 <kamnet> Merry Christmas all :-)
22:47:13 <kamnet> Anybody wanna help ol kamnet code up some fake road pieces as a NewObject :-)
22:51:20 <Eddi|zuHause> if you hear crickets at sub-zero temperatures, you're probably going crazy :p
22:52:14 <fonsinchen> They're living under my bed. No sub-zero temperatures there.
22:52:52 <kamnet> There's no accounting of my mental state :D
22:53:20 <Eddi|zuHause> well, in that case, you're probably getting crazy simply from hearing crickets all the time :p
22:53:45 <Eddi|zuHause> you're just switching out the symptom for the cause :p
22:53:59 <kamnet> Hm. Quite possibly. Especially this one on my shoulder who keeps trying to sway me from getting in trouble
23:01:23 <kamnet> I understand NML even less than I understand GRFCodec ;-)
23:01:42 <kamnet> Then again, I've completely forgotten everything about GRFCodec at this point
23:05:11 <planetmaker> too tired, good night :-)
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23:15:14 <__ln__> is the new T***: Legacy movie any good?
23:17:16 <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't seen it
23:17:29 <Eddi|zuHause> i barely remember the old one
23:19:37 <Wolf01> __ln__: I hope it will be, if they didn't keep the quality of the story it will be another 3D movie with only special effects
23:20:11 <__ln__> the soundtrack sounds quite nice
23:20:42 <Wolf01> like the second part of transformers 2, Giza at 15 minutes by car from Petra :|
23:21:10 <__ln__> my ears could be lying though
23:24:02 <Wolf01> does it is midi music or it was replaced by disco?
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