IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-12-26
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00:03:56 <ccfreak2k> Eddi|zuHause, a bit late but:
00:03:57 <ccfreak2k> <AforAnonymous> "sich erschrecken" is actually not really correct but commonly used, it should be expanded to "sich selbst erschrecken" or "sich selbst erschrocken haben", depending on tense
00:05:43 <ccfreak2k> <AforAnonymous> normally you say "Ich habe mich erschrocken"
00:05:44 <ccfreak2k> <AforAnonymous> to describe that you got frightened/shocked for a moment
00:06:30 <ccfreak2k> <AforAnonymous> well
00:06:30 <ccfreak2k> <AforAnonymous> actually
00:06:30 <ccfreak2k> <AforAnonymous> that's also not quite correct
00:11:10 <Eddi|zuHause> ccfreak2k: that may all be true, but it has nothing to do with the question.
00:11:36 <ccfreak2k> Yeah he realized that.
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03:33:47 <DJNekkid> hi all, i know its very late, and xmas and all
03:35:14 <DJNekkid> but is it a known bug that new railtypes wont show up with the option "show building tools when no suitable vehicles are available" turned on?
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05:51:21 <Chris_D> When you start a new game, how much should one care about subsidies? I've noticed that subsidies are usually onlly for resources that are relativley close to each other but the general "Pro-Tip" from wikis and guids are that the longer the haul of cargo the more €€€ you get. This leavs me confused, why bother with subsidies then?
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06:50:32 <ccfreak2k> Because you get more money than you would if they weren't subsidized.
06:53:00 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21641 /trunk/src/gfx.cpp: -Fix (r21639): ofcourse MSVC wants to have something to warn about
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08:59:37 <IchGuckLive> Good morning to all of you
09:00:09 <IchGuckLive> Can i see the tile influence of a city , to build trees for better mood
09:01:30 <Alberth> tile influence? what is that?
09:01:56 <IchGuckLive> tile's controled by the city goverment
09:03:02 <IchGuckLive> "xou cant build here city does not allow it " so there has to be a Border between the citys ,can i see this ?
09:03:23 <Eddi|zuHause> IchGuckLive: use the ? tool, it says "local authority: XYZ"
09:03:33 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21642 /trunk/src/ (10 files in 2 dirs):
09:03:33 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Feature: concept of automatic station orders; add stub orders for intermediate
09:03:33 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: stations and remove them when not visiting them anymore. This allows you to see
09:03:33 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: what trains visit a station without actually having to order a vehicle to stop
09:03:33 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: at all stations. Based on patch by fonsinchen
09:04:51 <IchGuckLive> thanks Eddi|zuHause
09:05:25 <IchGuckLive> this is nice feture so you can find trains that are wobbelingf around the map
09:05:37 <Rubidium> breaking fonsinchen's patch once more...
09:06:41 <IchGuckLive> is there a date when a new relese 1.0.6 is released or eben 1.1.0
09:07:24 <IchGuckLive> with debian packeges -> ubuntu
09:08:21 <IchGuckLive> with all this automatics includet it even can be named to 2.0
09:09:18 <IchGuckLive> ok meal is ready got to go By till later
09:26:29 <Alberth> oh noes, my bug got fixed! :p
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09:49:58 <Zuu> Alberth: Yea, that's terrible :-)
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10:56:34 <SpComb> curiouser and curioser
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11:24:27 <fonsinchen> I should probably cast it explicitly then. There can't be that many stations, so the number of destinations is limited.
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11:34:19 <ZirconiumX> hello Terkhen, how are you?
11:35:36 <ZirconiumX> Listening to tunes on my iPod Shuffle I got for christmas, but fine
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11:39:01 <fonsinchen> oh, you've committed auto-orders. Nice
11:45:41 <ZirconiumX> What's everyone currently doing?
11:46:05 <ZirconiumX> Probably quite a lot
11:50:59 <KenjiE20> or as little as possible
11:51:47 <ZirconiumX> Heh, I'm just randomly browsing the forums, so I don't blame you...
11:54:42 <KenjiE20> new Doctor Who game installed
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12:02:21 <frappa> I am having problems with OpenTTD. The game is hanging at autosave.
12:03:22 <frappa> I am using version 1.0.4 on a Mac.
12:06:57 <Alberth> 1.0.4 at a Mac? that sounds like a non-official build
12:08:11 <Alberth> perhaps you should try to re-create the problem on 1.1.0 beta1 (which does exists for Mac as official build)
12:18:39 <frappa> CT-magazine was distributing this version
12:20:33 <frappa> Hanging: do you know the "beachball"on a Mac? It is turnung eternally.
12:21:12 <frappa> And in the menu-bar: application not responding
12:21:30 <Alberth> sure, but does it use CPU, does it do disk activity?
12:22:03 <Alberth> afaik we did not provide that binary, no idea where they got that program from
12:23:30 <frappa> You would adivize installing an other version?
12:24:13 * Rubidium advices to install the latest and greatest Mac OS X 10.3
12:24:20 <Alberth> I'd try 1.1.0 beta 1. It is the newest version, we take bug reports on it
12:24:31 <frappa> BTW - the problem only occurs when I am playing with downloaded AIs.
12:24:56 <Rubidium> that one broken AI I presume :)
12:25:12 <Alberth> there are a few that have eat CPU time for breakfast
12:25:42 <frappa> I tried different ones, it happens with a lot of them
12:25:57 <frappa> Are there so many broken AIs?
12:26:33 <Rubidium> frappa: you're using RoadRunner AI I presume
12:26:49 <Alberth> AIs cost CPU time, so a lot, especially with bigger maps, and if you have several running
12:27:01 <Rubidium> Alberth: but AIs shouldn't hang OpenTTD completely
12:27:29 <Rubidium> except (as far as I am aware) RoadRunner AI in pre 1.1.0 OpenTTD
12:27:33 <Alberth> don't know how fast an Apple is, now very fast I bet
12:27:45 <frappa> Maybe I never waited long enough?
12:28:06 <Rubidium> Alberth: no hardware is fast enough for an infinite loop
12:28:15 <frappa> but after 5 min or so - I decided to quit ;-)
12:30:59 <frappa> Then I will try without "RoadRunner" and if that does not help anstall the other version.
12:37:50 <fonsinchen> rondje does all kinds of evil things, too.
12:38:03 <fonsinchen> that's basically its design.
12:38:58 <fonsinchen> Even if it's not responsible for your problem I wouldn't play with it.
12:41:50 <frappa> Is there a list of "trustworthy" AIs?
12:44:21 <frappa> and can I get rid of an AI in a saved game?
12:45:17 <frappa> what really sucks is that my saved games ar unusuable because of the hanging.
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12:45:34 <andythenorth> or afternoonz evens
12:47:14 <andythenorth> did santa bring any ponies?
12:49:46 <Alberth> lower the number of AIs, then use 'stop_ai <company number>' iirc
12:55:35 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21643 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix (r21642): crash when a train with no orders (or actually no order list) stops at a station
12:57:25 <Alberth> hmm, what use are fast train engines if the wagons are the limiting factor?
12:58:01 <Rubidium> they are of no or little use for those wagons
12:58:34 <Rubidium> which means that the engines are developped/meant for express stuff and not transporting cattle
13:03:34 <Alberth> ah, indeed. Removing the cargo restrictions gave mew a list of fast passenger/mail wagons.
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13:25:47 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21644 /trunk/src/ (order_base.h order_cmd.cpp vehicle_base.h vehicle_gui.cpp): -Change: keep showing "No orders" when the order list is filled with only automatic orders
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16:07:18 <nicfer> 1.1.0-beta1 is very glitchy right now?
16:14:40 <lugo> help us in finding that out :P , i didn't get it to crash yet
16:18:11 <Eddi|zuHause> you can't properly play multiplayer because of the version string
16:18:24 <Eddi|zuHause> no other urgent bugs that i know of
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17:47:37 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r21645 /trunk/src/core/smallmap_type.hpp: -Doc: Document SmallPair and SmallMap template parameters.
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17:53:14 <ZirconiumX> Alberth, or someone?
17:54:03 <ZirconiumX> If number of errors equals stupidity, than
17:54:13 <ZirconiumX> *puts on dunce hat*
17:54:34 <ZirconiumX> I have an error on the supersimpleAI
17:54:57 <ZirconiumX> but to solve that, I need to ask you a question
17:55:27 <Alberth> you know that in IRC, it is normal just to dump any question on the channel?
17:55:40 <ZirconiumX> For a start, do you put tile index (tiletoplace) in the prams
17:55:44 <Alberth> no need to find a person alive, or announce that you are going to ask a question.
17:56:21 <Alberth> what function? do you have code in a pastebin somewhere?
17:56:22 <ZirconiumX> I'm just a bit cautious, because someone went and leeched my computer while I was on IRC
17:56:42 <Markk> As the main rule in this kind of channels: Don't ask about asking, just ask. :)
17:56:56 <ZirconiumX> that is my current main.nut
17:57:01 <Alberth> at worst you don't get an answer :)
17:57:44 <Alberth> inclusive the messed-up layout?
17:58:45 <ZirconiumX> that or keep as is
17:58:56 <ZirconiumX> sorry, I'm not 'tidy'
17:59:58 <ZirconiumX> also, do the tile have to be in Hex
18:00:21 <ZirconiumX> Inclusive the messed up layout
18:00:37 <Alberth> perhaps mibpaste is very broken (it seems that way)
18:01:11 <Alberth> everything is flushed to the left here
18:01:51 <ZirconiumX> we read left to right, so yes that is correct
18:01:52 <Eddi|zuHause> use a real pastebin that uses monospace fonts...
18:04:18 <ZirconiumX> just looked, mibpaste is totally ****** up
18:04:39 <Alberth> yep, I agree on that :)
18:04:42 <ZirconiumX> an ai to build a road from (30,15), to (30,30)
18:05:31 <ZirconiumX> Alberth, what is the format for tile locations?
18:05:56 * Alberth looks for the NoAI docs
18:06:18 <ZirconiumX> the 0xB1A5B1A5, or (30,15)
18:06:31 <ZirconiumX> I have the Doxygen in a window
18:07:03 <ZirconiumX> next time you see the person who does this, ask them to implement a search function
18:07:17 <ZirconiumX> AFAIK it doesn't say
18:08:14 <glx> use AIMap::GetTileIndex()
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18:08:59 <ZirconiumX> Do I put that in value 'start' and then use that value to get the road built
18:09:58 <Alberth> indeed TileIndex AIMap::GetTileIndex (uint32 x, uint32 y) constructs a TileIndex from a pair of (x, y)
18:09:59 <ZirconiumX> *ahem* Do I put that in value 'start' and then use that value to get the road built
18:10:13 <glx> AIRoad::BuildRoadFull() requires TileIndex, so give it TileIndex :)
18:11:09 <Alberth> wow, a single function to build a piece of road :)
18:11:36 <ZirconiumX> meh, you know it says that squirrel is like C
18:11:44 <ZirconiumX> my dad says it's pascal
18:12:41 <Alberth> it needs a start TileIndex, and an end TileIndex, so start = AIMap::GetTileIndex(30, 15); end = AIMap::GetTileIndex(30, 30); AIRoad::BuildRoadFull(start, end);
18:13:06 <Alberth> then your dad has forgotten that pascal uses BEGIN ... END instead of { and } :)
18:13:30 <Alberth> also, squirrel is object-oriented, and that was invented after Pascal :)
18:13:50 <glx> AIRoad::BuildRoadFull(AIMap::GetTileIndex(30, 15), AIMap::GetTileIndex(30, 30)); works too
18:15:06 <Alberth> glx: do you happen to know the tile highlighting code?
18:16:04 <Alberth> in particular, useful better ways to refactor it to?
18:16:41 <ZirconiumX> *prepares to give alberth, and glx a big hug*
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18:17:45 <Alberth> glx: nobody seems to know that part :p
18:19:43 <Alberth> it needs curly brackets, and a function to call
18:20:02 <Alberth> also each statement needs a ; at the end, it is not Python :p
18:20:43 <ZirconiumX> Well, I can use UNIX
18:20:55 <Alberth> look at some other ai, for example the test-ai I posted a link to.
18:21:05 <Alberth> you have to stick to that syntax
18:23:23 <ZirconiumX> BRB, need to update API
18:23:48 <ZirconiumX> 0.7 API isn't user-friendly
18:26:37 <ZirconiumX> is the new main.nut, that's *still* causing problems
18:27:13 <ZirconiumX> a bracket-related problem
18:28:19 <ZirconiumX> the only solution I find in my mind breaks all barriers
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18:29:03 <ZirconiumX> AIRoad()::BuildRoadFull
18:29:25 <ZirconiumX> which won't get anywhere, will it Alberth?
18:31:45 <ZirconiumX> dead topic, shucks
18:32:47 <glx> parenthesis for function calls
18:33:50 <glx> no I see only curly in your paste
18:34:57 <glx> and you don't define Start() function
18:35:33 <Alberth> perhaps use a saner font in your browser and/or editor?
18:35:36 <ZirconiumX> Is there a way to terminate the AI from inside?
18:35:58 <Alberth> programming is very hard if you don't see the difference between { and (
18:36:00 <glx> yes just return from Start()
18:36:26 <ZirconiumX> *tell that to the guys wh made that font for the AI debug
18:36:41 <glx> it uses the font you selected :)
18:37:28 <Alberth> also, AI debug only shows code, it does not allow you to enter code there, you have an editor for that, which no doubt has font settings
18:38:17 <ZirconiumX> so what your saying is if it shows a bracket-type one switch until it is happy?
18:39:02 <Alberth> trial and error is one way, a faster way is to look at the example, and do what happens there
18:40:51 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
18:45:40 <ZirconiumX> Just a quick note, is GetAPIVersion() the correct one to call, and should it be 1.0 or "1.0"
18:45:49 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r21646 /trunk/src/lang/ (10 files): (log message trimmed)
18:45:49 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:49 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: croatian - 2 changes by VoyagerOne
18:45:49 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: english_US - 2 changes by Rubidium
18:45:49 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: finnish - 2 changes by jpx_
18:45:50 <ZirconiumX> because that is breaking the code
18:45:51 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: greek - 91 changes by fumantsu
18:45:51 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: hungarian - 2 changes by IPG
18:47:02 <Alberth> look in to NoAI docs, check whether it expects a string or a number.
18:47:37 <Alberth> I don't know such things either, I never seriously programmed an AI
18:49:47 <Zuu> ZirconiumX: before the AIInfo::GetAPIVersion on that page you see that AIs should return a string.
18:50:02 <glx> string AIInfo::GetAPIVersion ( ) <-- it's clear :)
18:50:41 <Zuu> Also see the notes for the function in the API docs regarding on what to include in the API version.
18:50:49 <ZirconiumX> good to have someone like you around
18:52:26 <Zuu> thanks, but even if I've been writing quite a bit OpenTTD AI code, I still have to look up details like this in the API docs.
18:53:36 <ZirconiumX> is now current main.nut
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18:54:39 <Zuu> looks good. your Save stub should return an empty table in order to fullfill the mininmum requirements of a Save function.
18:55:05 <ZirconiumX> meh, console may be broken
18:55:21 <ZirconiumX> 10/12 end of statement
18:55:49 <Zuu> Oh, you've used {} brackets instead of () brackets.
18:57:14 <Alberth> Zuu: () are called parentheses, instead of brackets
18:57:30 <ZirconiumX> is now current main.nut
18:57:44 <Zuu> Alberth: Oh, though they were all bracktes of different styles.
18:58:20 <Alberth> that holds indeed for the other brackets, just not for ( and )
18:59:08 <ZirconiumX> still spitting out it's dummy
18:59:20 <Zuu> Swedish use the equivivalent of parantheses for both () and []. {} are called bird wings :-)
18:59:36 <ZirconiumX> 10/12 end of statement expected
19:00:28 <ZirconiumX> it's in the AIRoad::S()etCurrentRoadType
19:00:43 <Zuu> IIRC to return an empty table this code: "return {};" can be used.
19:01:54 <Alberth> Zuu: nice name, much better than 'curly bracket' :)
19:02:41 <Eddi|zuHause> why can not all people be pragmatic like the germans, and call objects by what they really are? "runde klammern", "eckige klammern" and "geschweifte klammern"?
19:02:50 <glx> function calls use ".", function declarations use "::"
19:03:24 <Zuu> eg AIRoad.SetCurrentRoadType(AIRoad.ROADTYPE_ROAD)
19:03:42 <Zuu> You also miss "AIRoad." before ROADTYPE_ROAD
19:05:00 <ZirconiumX> Shall we have a joke, it's not racist (IMO)
19:05:02 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: heftklammen :)
19:05:14 <ZirconiumX> Imagine you're Hitler ok
19:06:06 <ZirconiumX> Hitler wasn't very happy after that
19:06:18 <Eddi|zuHause> "knock knock" jokes are completely unknown in germany.
19:06:45 <ZirconiumX> 29/2 expression expected
19:07:03 <Eddi|zuHause> and they kinda lose their point if you don't know the sound of the words...
19:08:23 <Eddi|zuHause> so... what actually WAS the joke?
19:09:00 <ZirconiumX> Hitler hated jew's, so calling the Fuhrer a Jew doesn't make him happy
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19:10:06 <Eddi|zuHause> ZirconiumX: having more } than { will certainly not work
19:10:36 <LordAro> i've been following your conversation (on the logs)
19:10:44 <LordAro> it makes interesting reading ;)
19:10:52 <Eddi|zuHause> "moin" does NOT stand for "morning"
19:11:05 <ZirconiumX> I have multiple Identities, one of which is OTTDmaster
19:11:35 <LordAro> yes, the AI known as Gamma gives it away really ;)
19:11:48 <LordAro> Alberth: me? what with?
19:12:01 <ZirconiumX> heh. ONE LINE from freedom
19:12:35 <ZirconiumX> nope, not one line
19:12:39 <Alberth> your knowledge of AIs and Squirrel of course
19:13:14 <ZirconiumX> how do you define an index
19:13:24 <Eddi|zuHause> your skills of handling a kid who thinks he can tell phonetic jokes over IRC?
19:15:30 <Zuu> good LordAro is here with his Squirrel expertise so I can retire to my C++ programming. :-)
19:16:01 <ZirconiumX> the // ones are the indexes in question
19:16:19 <ZirconiumX> the Tile index has been sorted
19:17:23 * fjb wonders why american kids are thinking Hitler is funny.
19:21:31 <Rubidium> fjb: don't mention the war!
19:21:38 <Zuu> Yea, but that post is a year old, so now you can entitle yourself an experienced AI programmer. :-)
19:22:28 <LordAro> ZirconiumX: use "local" before the variable
19:23:00 <LordAro> (no, it didn't take me that long to work it out, i was just trying to find something on the wiki about it ;) )
19:23:44 <ZirconiumX> MORE errors *feels small*
19:25:03 <LordAro> well come on then, stop complaining about the fact that you've got errors, and just say what they are ;)
19:25:09 <ZirconiumX> local.start requires IDENTIfier
19:25:46 <LordAro> Zuu got there first :)
19:25:53 <Ammler> fjb: you should be able to make fun about everyone
19:26:40 <Ammler> (or else don't do it at all)
19:26:48 <ZirconiumX> it's only took three hours
19:27:04 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21647 /trunk/src/lang/greek.txt: -Fix: failure of WT3 to properly validate some string...
19:27:51 <LordAro> Rubidium: what is wrong with WT3? it keeps doing that... (as i'm sure you've noticed :D)
19:27:52 <fjb> Ammler: Being able to make ist is one think. But I still wonder why some people finde a totally unfunny person funny.
19:28:12 <Ammler> Rubidium: maybe you should comment the issue about MP and beta1 on the news or link to forums
19:29:22 <ZirconiumX> I'm going to move onto a curve *cue dramatic music*
19:29:26 <Ammler> fjb: I assume, it is satire, isn't?
19:30:02 <ZirconiumX> I renounce that joke, it was one I found on the TT-Forums, don't blame me
19:30:12 <Rubidium> LordAro: it's validation of strings isn't 100% correct, i.e. it allows more than is actually allowed
19:30:16 <fjb> Ammler: It didn't sound like satire, more like an unreflected kids joke.
19:31:51 <Ammler> ah, the hitler joke was here, I didn't get that :-)
19:32:19 <Alberth> quite likely, nobody did
19:32:49 <ZirconiumX> I didn't mean to offend anybody
19:33:02 <fjb> Ammler: You didn't really miss anything.
19:33:07 <Rubidium> Ammler: yeah, guess we should. Don't have time for that anymore though in the next few hours. Maybe planetmaker has some time?
19:33:42 <Ammler> I guess, he isn't around...
19:39:43 <ZirconiumX> I've cheated, but I made a rectangle using Gamma
19:40:21 <Alberth> in just a little over 3 hours
19:40:29 <ZirconiumX> I'll send you the main.nut and info.nut if you wish
19:41:18 <Alberth> not needed, I am sure I can figure it out when I want to build road
19:41:23 <ZirconiumX> I've cheated in that the corner's been made by the roads overlapping, but anyway
19:41:45 <Alberth> check the BuildRoad function
19:41:49 <ZirconiumX> I was thinking about Mr. Aro.
19:42:17 <ZirconiumX> I know, but I need to rest my head, and make a note
19:43:05 <Alberth> ah, reading material!
19:43:31 <LordAro> :D yep! about 30 pages in so far :) :)
19:44:10 <LordAro> certainly better than anything i've come across online
19:44:23 <Alberth> ah, I mostly skipped the introduction chapters :)
19:44:43 <Alberth> LordAro: you get the quality you pay for :)
19:44:54 <ZirconiumX> My reading material was mainly in the form of AIRoad::BuildRoadFull(AIMap::GetTileIndex(30, 15), AIMap::GetTileIndex(30, 30));
19:45:20 <ZirconiumX> the concorde haynes manual
19:45:54 <LordAro> Alberth: thats funny, because it says you should read the beginning again, even if you skip it to start with ;)
19:46:29 <ZirconiumX> Oh, and the nearest I've got to C is csh
19:46:37 <Alberth> I support that advice fully, I just don't always follow it ;)
19:46:46 <ZirconiumX> UNIX for dummies in the local library!
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19:47:22 <LordAro> ZirconiumX: actually, the closest you've probably got to C[++] is probbaly squirrel ;)
19:48:07 <ZirconiumX> *hates the fact that the good Lord is correct*
19:48:50 <ZirconiumX> Love to, but can't
19:49:06 <Alberth> LordAro: In the days that I bought the book, I was programming C++ daily :)
19:49:40 <LordAro> i guess it was probably ok for you to skip certain bit then :)
19:50:07 <LordAro> ZirconiumX: what stops you?
19:51:39 <ZirconiumX> It's a goddamn patch
19:52:05 <ZirconiumX> It takes an hour to compile, and
19:52:29 <ZirconiumX> as planetmaker knows it's not always straightforward
19:53:05 <LordAro> an hour?! how old is your pc? or are macs like that anyway?
19:53:41 <ZirconiumX> a good 8/9 years, 1Ghz, that's all
19:54:32 <ZirconiumX> new macs are 3.2Ghz
19:58:17 <LordAro> even my _ancient_ 450MHz can compile in under 30mins (that said, it was before the introduction of ICU, don't know how that would affect it)
19:59:13 <ZirconiumX> Let's have a game of top trumps
19:59:23 <ZirconiumX> get your computer facts ready
20:00:39 <ZirconiumX> USB ports excluding additional ones from splitters etc.
20:01:23 <LordAro> can't - no admin access
20:01:34 <LordAro> plus i'd just cheat ;)
20:01:37 <ZirconiumX> count on your comp
20:02:19 <nicfer> are there compilers that can use multiple cores for speeding up the job?
20:02:45 <ZirconiumX> there's a command for make that does it
20:02:56 <ZirconiumX> Except I have one core
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20:06:13 <LordAro> ah! fanioz! another fellow NoAI writer :)
20:06:17 <ZirconiumX> can you burn a CD-R or CD-RW
20:07:27 <ZirconiumX> there's a computer that can do that you know
20:07:44 <LordAro> glx: note the "kidding" ;)
20:08:22 <LordAro> i should have said something else ridiculous, like HVD writer :D
20:08:38 <nicfer> blu-ray discs have mandatory drm encoding right?
20:09:29 <glx> I think they stopped using SCSI a long time ago
20:10:32 <ZirconiumX> I think I have the ace here
20:11:41 <glx> I could use nforce firewall :)
20:12:30 <ZirconiumX> NVIDIA GeForce4 MX
20:13:10 <nicfer> facetime is an apple-exclusive gimmick?
20:13:43 <ZirconiumX> How do you get that action thing
20:13:54 <nicfer> so, no facetime for linux or win
20:14:14 <LordAro> type "/me" before the coment
20:14:15 <glx> it's just a phone call with webcam nicfer :)
20:14:33 <nicfer> well, it's not even a standard AFAIK
20:14:34 <ZirconiumX> What did apple do with MobileMe?
20:15:30 <ZirconiumX> need more examples?
20:16:25 <ZirconiumX> so eventually it will come to windows
20:16:49 <Eddi|zuHause> is that one of those jokes again?
20:17:03 * ZirconiumX realises that you can't get facetime on a mac
20:17:42 * LordAro reminds everyone he hates Apple, macs, Steve Jobs, and anything else to do with it ;)
20:18:06 <glx> everything starting with "i" ;)
20:18:39 * ZirconiumX Reminds everyone that I hate Microsoft, PC's, Bill Gates and everything else to do with it :P
20:19:23 <ZirconiumX> see ya'll if/when I do
20:19:34 <Eddi|zuHause> is that a threat?
20:19:51 * ZirconiumX opens door and leaves, cursing at Bill gates
20:20:51 <LordAro> What's the coding style 'stance' on very long if statements?
20:21:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd make a line break before the operator
20:29:22 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: i am not involved in deciding the code style ;)
20:32:12 <Ammler> LordAro: if I compare that, you miss at least one more indent
20:35:01 <Ammler> which would imply it is content _in_ the if clause, not still continue the if
20:35:13 <LordAro> on the second line? according to my computer there is only 1
20:35:40 <Ammler> yeah, which is wrong, count the tabs from your hg link
20:37:21 <LordAro> ah, i see. so there should be 3?
20:39:13 <glx> in this case we align with spaces
20:40:09 <glx> as many tabs as before the if, then spaces so AIXXX are aligned
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20:43:07 <glx> but as it's your own code, you can use your own style :)
20:43:29 <LordAro> i like to use as close to ottd as possible ;)
20:44:48 <Ammler> he, I just compared the styles, but one tab would make it look like code in the tab, that seemed wrong.
20:45:05 <Eddi|zuHause> [making line breaks after the operator basically goes against anything my higher education taught me]
20:45:22 <LordAro> ah, but 4 spaces, is the same as 1 tab in notepad++
20:45:45 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: the point about "alignment with spaces" is that tab-width is not the same in every editor
20:46:08 <glx> tab for indentation, spaces for aligning ;)
20:46:13 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: so when someone edits with tabwidth 2, he must get the same alignment.
20:46:45 <LordAro> anyone know how to change tab size in notepad++? :)
20:47:03 <Eddi|zuHause> ... now i know what fjb means when he says "there are too many incompetent idiots in the german forum"
20:47:20 <Ammler> shouldn't matter, if you use tabs only for indents
20:47:32 <glx> LordAro: in preferences, it's configurable by language
20:48:37 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: How did you come to that conclusion?
20:48:41 <Eddi|zuHause> seriously... "the freight multiplier probably increases profit"?
20:49:32 <LordAro> glx: got it, 6 is more normal, isn't it?
20:50:41 <Ammler> the web viewers have mostly 8
20:50:51 <Ammler> or is that a local setting?
20:51:09 <Eddi|zuHause> 8 is usually the "original" tab width...
20:51:33 <Eddi|zuHause> but really: it should work with all tabwidths
20:51:41 <glx> hg viewer uses 8 except for the first tab :)
20:53:12 <Eddi|zuHause> i like tabwidth 2
20:53:45 <Ammler> I use 2, if I ident with spaces :-)
20:53:57 <glx> that's the advantage of tabs, everyone can see code with it's preferences
20:54:53 <Ammler> the problem is, if editor does convert tabs to spaces :-P
20:55:14 <LordAro> that could get annoying...
20:55:40 <Ammler> needed for python, afaik
20:56:17 <Eddi|zuHause> python condones the use of tabs altogether
20:56:40 <Eddi|zuHause> but otherwise they are interpreted as 8 spaces
20:56:51 <Ammler> glx: of course it is a setting, so you can only blame the user ;-)
20:57:50 <Eddi|zuHause> the problem is teaching the editor different contexts
20:58:02 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: and then the lovely Makefile, which even don't work at all with spacesw
20:58:24 <glx> tabs are part of Makefile format :)
20:58:37 <Eddi|zuHause> i think for kate you can put config files into the working directory
20:58:55 <Ammler> then nml should do that :-P
21:01:01 <Ammler> ah no, nml again does use tabs :-)
21:05:33 <Yexo> LordAro: I haven't looked at it yet, I simply didn't find the time
21:14:32 <Eddi|zuHause> "seine Verlobte Maria [...] auf einmal in anderen Umständen ist - ohne dass er selbst damit etwas zu tun hatte. Sie erzählt etwas von einem geheimnisvollen Mann, der ihr erschienen sei und ihr die Geburt eines Sohnes angekündigt habe, der vom Heiligen Geist stamme. Das glauben ihr allerdings weder Josef noch ihre Eltern noch irgendjemand sonst in Nazaret..."
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21:25:23 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: People are not that stupid, even not back then in ancient times. :-)
21:25:51 <Xaroth> Yexo: ever considered an IDE for newgrf development? :o
21:26:22 <fjb> Eclipse NewGRF plugin... :-)
21:27:03 <Eddi|zuHause> what would be the sense in inventing Yet Another IDE just for one esoteric language?
21:27:04 <Xaroth> would be stupid having to download dozens of MB for eclipse, just for a 'simple' IDE
21:27:26 <Xaroth> Eddi|zuHause: stimulating development of newgrfs
21:27:49 <Eddi|zuHause> Xaroth: actually, there is grfmaker already
21:28:39 <fjb> A "simple" IDe is calles editor.
21:29:21 <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: for certain values of "Integrated"? ;)
21:29:35 <Rubidium> direct access to the specs, and it even has versioning
21:29:52 <Xaroth> Rubidium: no automated compiles tho
21:29:59 <Xaroth> and not that good on the debugging front :P
21:30:12 <Xaroth> though code hilighting can be built in...
21:42:09 <Terkhen> I did NML highlighting for Notepad++
21:56:40 <Eddi|zuHause> # when you're alone, silence is all you know
21:56:47 <Eddi|zuHause> # when you're alone, silence is all you see
21:56:48 <Eddi|zuHause> # when you're alone, silence is all you'll be
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22:05:43 <Xaroth> Rubidium: any chance the admin port can get the current list of loaded newgrfs? :o
22:13:19 <Xaroth> Rubidium: that's as useful as having to rcon the client list.. but it could work i suppose
22:17:17 <Rubidium> it's true that it's not that useful, as in easy to parse, for admins. But I'm wondering what information to send and whether it's really useful or not
22:19:02 <Xaroth> its useful for verification
22:19:34 <Xaroth> I'll see if I can brush off my almost non-existant C knowledge to make a patch
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22:22:44 <Rubidium> Xaroth: but then you'd probably want something like grfid and md5 checksum
22:22:56 <Rubidium> and also stuff like the parameters
22:23:16 <Rubidium> though stuff gets complicated when compatible NewGRFs are loaded
22:23:34 <Rubidium> do you want to know what NewGRFs should've been loaded or what NewGRF is loaded
22:23:59 <Rubidium> although... that might not really be important since you can't start a server with a compatible NewGRF
22:24:31 <Rubidium> meaning there isn't that much verification of NewGRFs you can do, besides assume the loaded game is the correct game
22:24:33 <Ammler> does the gamelog show the parameters?
22:24:44 <Xaroth> with parameters, but at bare minimum those 3
22:25:49 <Rubidium> I'm wondering how useful the name is for verification
22:26:06 <Rubidium> but then there is always a name as the server can't start with missing NewGRFs
22:26:14 <Ammler> also useful could be, if the newgrf is available from bananas
22:26:33 <Rubidium> Ammler: that requires the server to do a lookup with bananas
22:26:46 <Ammler> e.g. if you like to make something like openttdlib
22:26:47 <Rubidium> which incredibly increases the complexity of the query
22:27:04 <Xaroth> no, checking bananas is not something the server should do
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22:30:49 <Ammler> Rubidium: it might be useful also for the MP lobby
22:31:28 <z-MaTRiX> fear not santa is here
22:31:41 <Ammler> so you could see, which servers aren't able to join also if you sync with bananas
22:32:01 <Rubidium> that just makes stuff too complex and adds a massive amount of corner cases
22:33:47 <Rubidium> didn't mb like promise a release of some his NewGRFs at Christmas?
22:34:23 <Xaroth> problem with a gazillion source files
22:34:37 <Xaroth> finding the right bit is sometimes like finding a needle in a stack of needles..
22:35:04 <Rubidium> you're looking for the network admin bit, right?
22:35:11 <Xaroth> no, i know where that is :P
22:35:37 <Xaroth> and tcp_admin.h for some things here and there
22:37:15 <Wolf01> I have a train which loads at station A and delivers to B, C and D. Station B does need too much cargo: A->B A->C A->D A->C A->D seem a bit too repetitive to me, could it be handled with conditional orders? If so, what is the best condition to use?
22:37:36 <Xaroth> I'm trying to locate a good (read: best) way to get information about loaded newgrfs
22:38:19 <Xaroth> Rubidium: in the code :P
22:38:44 <Xaroth> << trying to build a patch
22:40:07 <Rubidium> those are search hints...
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22:53:55 <__ln__> what to do when power through ups is less reliable than without an ups?
22:54:34 <__ln__> that's what i ended up doing
22:56:11 <Ammler> __ln__: then it is broken?
22:56:28 <Ammler> it needs power for some minutes (to shutdown)
22:58:28 <__ln__> the strangest thing is that it's only broken occassionally, and it's not about the battery.
23:00:24 <z-MaTRiX> (if not made in china )
23:00:42 <z-MaTRiX> i have designed ups too
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23:27:02 <Wolf01> mmh, MB started to spawn like a mushroom in OTTD forums, especially in the suggestions one
23:30:43 <Zuu> It's always as laughtable when you manage to terminate a while loop with a ; so the loop becomes an infinite loop :-)
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