IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-12-16
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00:04:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i have a feeling Dante123 is approaching the dark side of hacking... the one where you desire quick results for little effort, and then destroy more things than you create
00:24:33 <SmatZ> SpComb: what would be better name?
00:28:54 <__ln__> would replacing each trailing period and questionmark with "lol" be a nice idea?
00:29:23 <SmatZ> __ln__: you can try that in finnish translation :P
00:32:14 <__ln__> "Vehicle 1 is getting old and needs replacing lol", "Citizens celebrate: First train arrives at Sometown lol"
00:33:02 <SmatZ> Saving game failed lololol
00:33:50 <__ln__> but clearly you see the potential of this
00:40:41 <SpComb> SmatZ: it's just kind of self-conflicting since all periods are trailing
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01:59:29 <Eddi|zuHause> that was weird...
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02:59:52 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. it was really weird.
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04:54:31 <supermop> what was the wierd thing, eddi?
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08:17:07 <dihedral> "failure of WT3 to properly validate some strings..." <- is it not easier to fix WT3 instead?
08:17:47 <dihedral> and good morning :-)
08:34:17 <peter1138> guess what i'm playing
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08:51:24 <Terkhen> 84 strings to validate? this is a new record :)
08:51:36 <Terkhen> the change is simple anyways
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09:27:28 <norbert791> Guess we have two candidates for userID removaql at tt-forums
09:27:36 <norbert791> ankotech53 and tina88
09:28:26 <norbert791> Eggs, ham, pickels and SPAM
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09:49:59 <dihedral> <peter1138> guess what i'm playing <- what? :-)
09:50:39 <dihedral> what were you playing then?
09:51:26 <dihedral> i've not played anything in a long time
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10:17:14 <norbert79> I got addicted to SWAT 4 recently... Guess I drop Hidden and Dangerous 2 from my regular gameplay list...
10:18:31 <dihedral> i loved playing Gothic I and II :-)
10:18:41 <dihedral> but that is some time back now too
10:18:54 <dihedral> have not touched ET for a long time either
10:19:06 <dihedral> and probably will not touch it any time soon too
10:19:37 <norbert79> I prefer more like games, which focus on realistic circumstances
10:20:03 <norbert79> thanks of this I have started revieweing real army material on all weapons listed in the game :)
10:24:09 <dihedral> have a look at flightgear or xplane ^^
10:25:05 <dihedral> considering how badly organized they are, i am amazed they actually ever got this far ^^
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12:13:02 <norbert79> dihedral: When I was last playing flightgear it was back in 2005, but it almost amazed me how good the simulation was, though I missed the realistic crash rendering. I wanted to simulate some rel-life crashes. I don't if that part is still unchanged or not, but I might give FG a try again
12:14:17 <norbert79> Pity, that X-Plane is commercial only, no free version available
12:16:29 <peter1138> fg's still not hot on crashes, heh
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12:23:32 <norbert79> peter1138: I prefer freely available open source stuff ;-) Aw, still no crashes in FG... Any possibility on creating incident scenarios?
12:24:03 <norbert79> peter1138: the Su-27 Simulation from SSI used to have those
12:28:54 <norbert79> what am I saying, even Flanker 1 could simulate incidents :)
12:37:32 <norbert79> Hah, found the Flanker 2.5 and 2.51 updates... Nice... I thought I have lost those for ever
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12:45:22 <dihedral> it eats like 2.5 gig when it's running on my workstation
12:46:30 <dihedral> they did some awesome cloud stuff - however it lowered my frame rate from 85+ to 34+/-
12:47:41 <norbert79> ook. I think I stick to Flanker 2.5 then :)
12:49:10 <dihedral> who is flanker from?
12:49:48 <norbert79> not existing anymore
12:50:31 <norbert79> Yet I am a proud owner of both Flanker 1.0 and 2.0 original CD jewel case copies
12:51:09 <__ln__> Flanker stored sprite resources as thousands of separate .bmp files.
12:51:19 <norbert79> Flanker 1.0 used to need DOS, but it was the most awesome simulation I have ever played during my DOS times... It even topped TFX back then, but EF2000 was just too much for my machine
12:52:07 <norbert79> Yet EF2000 still rocks... Just played it using Dosbox recently
12:52:09 <dihedral> i always wanted to have a look at the xplane demo
12:52:41 * __ln__ owns both X-Plane 8 and 9
12:53:26 <norbert79> __ln__: Nice... I am struggling between IL-2 1946 and Lock-On... But I think gathering IL2 will be easier through GOG.com
12:58:17 <__ln__> dihedral: it's alright, but lacking some features such as force feedback.
12:58:55 <dihedral> yuck - force feedback is ucky :-P
12:59:41 <norbert79> IL-2 is 7 $ at GOG.com... aaaaaaaawwwww.... Awww... Want to... I want to have it...
12:59:58 <__ln__> that reminds me, OpenTTD is also lacking support for force feedback!
13:00:10 <planetmaker> do they meanwhile also implement things like stick shaker in other flight simulators?
13:01:08 <dihedral> <planetmaker> do they meanwhile also implement things like stick shaker in other flight simulators? <- that would be the only think i could consider worthy for forcefeedback
13:01:22 <dihedral> but it's implemented sound wise in FG :-)
13:01:41 <dihedral> that joystick is sick
13:01:53 <dihedral> cost like 300 eur and more
13:02:21 <norbert79> Christ... Taht needs a seperate table
13:02:28 <norbert79> I am fine with a plane one :D
13:03:10 <dihedral> lol - that little typo makes a huge difference in this discussion :-P
13:03:51 <dihedral> even have a lovely config i wrote for FG
13:04:11 <norbert79> I have a joystick, which is being listed under "retro" products by now
13:04:23 <dihedral> yes, and only costs like 30 eur
13:04:35 <norbert79> thats a bit pricey for me
13:04:52 <norbert79> Hey, I have a wife and a kid feed :)
13:05:10 <dihedral> i scripted the config so that buttons 2 and 3 cycle through different modes for the cooly hat, and buttons 4 and 5 do the same for the scroll wheel :-P
13:06:47 <dihedral> i would not mind having that one :P
13:07:04 <dihedral> but that then really is to pricey for me too :-P
13:07:12 <Eddi|zuHause> i have never had a use for these things
13:07:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i never had a use for flight sims
13:08:28 <dihedral> if the physics engine is good they can be fun
13:09:35 <SmatZ> mmm gcc 4.5.2, maybe it's time to start using 4.5 :)
13:10:32 <dihedral> 29$ for xplane 9 is not bad
13:10:41 <planetmaker> SmatZ: you certainly know: except bug fixes: any speed gain when compiling openttd?
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13:10:54 <planetmaker> compared between major gcc releases?
13:11:17 <planetmaker> speed as in execution speed of resulting binary and compilation speed
13:11:29 <SmatZ> planetmaker: generally, the older GCC, the faster compilation
13:11:33 <planetmaker> and of course 'hello' :-)
13:11:56 <planetmaker> hm, the older the faster?
13:11:58 <SmatZ> there are some improvements in performance, but OpenTTD doesn't make much use of autovectorization...
13:12:59 <SmatZ> planetmaker: at least speaking about GCC3 vs GCC4 :)
13:13:38 <planetmaker> well, I was just curious and assume(d correctly as it seems) you know it out of your hat ;-)
13:14:11 <SmatZ> better verify my claims :D
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13:18:07 <planetmaker> dihedral: but I guess that "joystick" is also stale when you once sat in a real simulator ;-)
13:20:59 <dihedral> some people tend to go a bit too far for my taste :
13:22:54 <norbert79> Weirdos... Building a plane... How silly
13:23:43 <__ln__> dihedral: X-Plane 9 comes on seven DVDs or something
13:24:25 <dihedral> there was one guy who spend like 30k-50k us$ to get all the origianl cockpit pieces and set them up at home
13:24:46 <norbert79> dihedral: Yeah, it was an original Boeing 747 project, right?
13:24:54 <dihedral> norbert79, it's got a map of the entire* world
13:24:55 <norbert79> I think I remember the same one
13:25:06 <__ln__> It's not necessary to install everything if the ~60GB install size is too much.
13:25:07 <dihedral> *75 deg. north - 65 deg. south
13:25:38 <norbert79> __ln__: Well, WoW is also around at 31-35 Gig of install size :)
13:26:06 <norbert79> I wonder how detialed my town would be in X-Plane...
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14:00:31 <SmatZ> planetmaker: actually, it seems I was wrong
14:00:45 <SmatZ> compiling OpenTTD in gcc 3.4.6 and 4.5.1 takes roughly the same time
14:03:45 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: smatz * r21531 /trunk/src/viewport.cpp: -Fix: gcc 3.4 warning
14:04:13 <norbert79> SmatZ: Use 'time' for exact measurments
14:04:34 <norbert79> SmatZ: I am also curious how long does it take on a specific system two GCCs compared
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14:09:29 <SmatZ_> "police tested the driver for alcohol, the test shown negative value" wtf, negative amount of alcohol in blood? he should drink something to get to zero level :)
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14:13:54 <norbert79> SmatZ: Probably the device was faulty
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14:14:10 <norbert79> SmatZ: As of course like every measuring device, that needs regular checking too :)
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14:25:38 <Belugas> looks like that alcohol test had a bug... the guy was too intoxicated for the poor machine
14:30:56 <ccfreak2k> Belugas, it's anticohol dontchaknow.
14:37:24 <Belugas> i agrreee weeevv ya... HIC
14:40:07 <norbert79> or the counter had a limit of 'char', and it caused having a negative number
14:45:56 <fjb> Not unlikely. The testing device is probably based on an 8bit micro-controller.
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15:32:54 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... qemu seems extremely slow today...
15:33:04 <Eddi|zuHause> but it uses only like 30% cpu
15:35:54 <Eddi|zuHause> but instead kmail uses 100% cpu... that's crazy...
15:42:03 <dihedral> i assume you have more than 1 core :-P
15:44:01 <Eddi|zuHause> indeed, i had programs use 570% ;)
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17:00:37 <supermop> not much action this morning....
17:00:58 <Dante123> (8) pump pump pump (8)
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17:17:04 <Belugas> maybe because the action is off the screen?
17:26:41 <Wolf01> playing fable (the first)
17:27:07 <V453000> sitting at school ...
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17:32:06 <SmatZ> Terkhen: reading articles about procrastinating while I have other things to do can itself be procrastinating
17:32:18 <SmatZ> which makes me hard to decide whether or not read them
17:33:34 <Terkhen> I don't think that is really procrastination, but since the knowledge adquired will probably be used to procrastinate, I guess that the negative implications remain
17:41:37 <Belugas> fighting hard with the clock for a feature that was supposed to be programmed 2 months ago by a junior who is not with us anymore (guess why) and that said feature is bugged, bugged bugged and the customer wants it NOW
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18:46:10 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: translators * r21532 /trunk/src/lang/ (10 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
18:46:10 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:46:10 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: croatian - 65 changes by VoyagerOne
18:46:10 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: czech - 128 changes by SmatZ, marek995
18:46:10 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: english_US - 84 changes by Rubidium
18:46:12 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: french - 71 changes by glx
18:46:12 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: frisian - 13 changes by gjannema
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20:05:22 <Dante123> does it make sense to have barrels grapics for "fertilizer" ?
20:05:55 <Zuu> Any Word2010 hero out there that knows how to disable/erase how long time that has been spent editing a document? The only method I've found out soo far is to use "save as" and then in the file-system change the filename back to the original name.
20:06:13 <Zuu> I don't want to tell people that receive a document how many minutes I've spent on it.
20:06:39 <Dante123> copy-paste all content into a new doc and overwrite the old one ?
20:07:20 <Alberth> industrial size use of fertilizer probably does not come in bags of 5kg
20:07:31 <Zuu> Dante123: That is even worse than using "save as", as you might lose some style information.
20:07:38 <Zuu> __ln__: Not always suitable.
20:08:10 <Alberth> Zuu: not always suitable holds stronger for word docs
20:08:19 <Dante123> Alberth mm im doubting if barrels are a good graphic for Fertelizer :/
20:08:39 <Alberth> you are talking about FIRS right?
20:08:43 <Zuu> I guess I've got to continue searching and eventually figure out how to disable it. :-)
20:09:03 <Alberth> I seem to remember a discussion about it in the thread. Did you search there?
20:09:12 <Dante123> fertelizer is in ECS
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20:10:01 <Dante123> zuu in the properties of the doc
20:10:31 <planetmaker> [21:05] <Dante123> does it make sense to have barrels grapics for "fertilizer" ? <-- in large quantities it's a bulk cargo. Like salt or grains
20:10:33 <Dante123> and than properties and personal info
20:11:00 <Zuu> Dante123: Thanks, will check it out tomorrow as I don't have 2010 at home.
20:11:08 <Dante123> but wouldn't it be in crates or more like container train stuff ?
20:11:29 <Dante123> Zuu you only need the doc at home ;)
20:11:39 <Alberth> I'd expect big bags of fertilizer. I doubt that ECS is responsible for the graphics though, vehicles define graphics for the cargo they carry
20:11:56 <planetmaker> Zuu: still exchange of PDF is IMHO the most prudent way to share documents
20:12:03 <planetmaker> And it's not like one cannot edit PDFs
20:12:06 <Dante123> its more for my own grapics i want to link and make for the fertelizer :P
20:12:36 <Dante123> i have already barrels sprite, but not sure if i should use it for fertelizer too
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20:12:50 <Alberth> doesn't feel right imho
20:13:01 <planetmaker> well. you could. One can justify many things. But I've never seen fertilizer by the barrel
20:13:17 <planetmaker> Not sure how those liquid fertilizers work, though
20:13:24 <Dante123> same what i thought, but therefore dropped the ball here too :P
20:13:28 * Alberth ponders whether black powder counts as fertilizer
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20:15:57 <Dante123> maybe steel barrels or Bigbags (1 cubic bags) are the right ones :/
20:15:57 <planetmaker> But I guess those are for the people who buy a separate fertilizer for each plant ;-)
20:15:57 <planetmaker> 25kg or 50kg bags for the gardeners. Wagon loads for farm applications
20:15:57 <planetmaker> *bulk wagon loads
20:15:57 <planetmaker> at least that's how it works where I grew up
20:15:57 <Dante123> im not from a village :D
20:15:58 <planetmaker> Let's say: the farming background runs strong in my blood ;-)
20:16:17 <Dante123> when can i make sprites in 3d btw ? :P
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20:16:33 <Dante123> or better question, what file format should they be xD
20:17:04 <Alberth> it may also come in bulk, I can imagine
20:17:28 <Dante123> doesnt that 32 bit have 3D drawn sprites ?
20:17:32 <Alberth> Dante123: any file format you can transform to nice flat 2.5D pics is good
20:18:10 <planetmaker> Dante123: not only 32bit. Also a lot of OpenGFX stuff has a 3D background, especially some industries.
20:18:11 <Dante123> well i work with CAD apps as daytime job, and they have that nice viewcube zo you always have the default camera points
20:18:18 <Alberth> some people do use 3D renderers yes
20:19:36 <Alberth> you could have a look in the 32bit repository
20:19:57 <Dante123> if you use applications like Revit, the renderings are a peace of cacke
20:20:22 <Dante123> mm well, it would be woth to take a look at one day i guess :P
20:20:30 <Dante123> but firs my other grf's
20:24:33 <Dante123> hehe have some old music back =D
20:24:50 <Dante123> the first albums from Metallica :)
20:26:00 <Xaroth> there's not much that can beat the black album..
20:26:53 <Dante123> have to agree on that oen
20:27:02 <Dante123> and the one called ride the lightning
20:27:29 <Dante123> and ofc the once in symphony is also just awsome
20:27:47 <Dante123> that last one is a bit down compared to the other ones :P
20:29:34 <Dante123> any1 fam. with ECS from out if the head ?
20:29:51 <Dante123> whats the input cargo for the ECS brick works ?
20:30:51 <Eddi|zuHause> there's a wiki for that.
20:31:25 <Dante123> yea but i was wondering of any1 could tell it from the head
20:31:32 <Dante123> saves time to search the wiki url xD
20:31:54 <Belugas> [15:24] <Dante123> the first albums from Metallica :) <- Ride the Lightning was the real first one, in my opinion.
20:31:55 <Alberth> I have it bookmarked :)
20:32:13 <Dante123> mm image is outdated ?
20:32:23 <planetmaker> alternatively start an ecs game with a nightly version. Alberth added a feature which replaces any manual in that respect ;-)
20:32:23 <Dante123> or does ecs make bricks only from coal
20:32:36 <Alberth> it has been years since I played ECS
20:33:10 <Dante123> pff almosy done recoding my nfo with that new cargo label system now :D
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20:38:46 <planetmaker> [21:33] <Dante123> pff almosy done recoding my nfo with that new cargo label system now :D <-- what is new about the cargo labels?
20:39:15 <Dante123> at first u used the cargo ID's
20:39:26 <Dante123> utill people told me to use the cargo labels
20:39:49 <Dante123> and this way i also have to recode the whole lot to make them work with more than 1 label
20:42:18 <Dante123> but now everything seems like working again =)
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20:52:30 <gelignite> good evening. how to distinguish trams from buses/trucks? at the moment i distinguish trucks from buses by AICargo.GetCargoLabel which returns either "PASS" or "MAIL" (for my case). but trams (for passengers) and buses would both return "PASS" and are from the same vehicle type AIVehicle.VT_ROAD :-(
20:56:17 <Eddi|zuHause> gelignite: i'd imagine it would be similar to distinguishing track types for rail. but i don't know the AI API
20:56:30 <glx> gelignite: Engine.GetRoadType
20:58:23 <Yexo> using cargo labels is not the best way of doing it, the best way would be to first determine the cargoid of passengers and then use AIEngine.CanRefitCargo(engine, cargoid)
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21:14:03 <Zuu> The AI library SuperLib have a function called GetPAXCargo() that will determine and return the cargo id of passengers.
21:14:25 <gelignite> glx, that does the trick i was looking for. thanks.
21:17:07 <Zuu> Oh, and GetPaxCargo() is located in the Helper sublibrary. :-)
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21:48:21 <andythenorth> and also good night
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22:14:45 <Rachel> Is there any point letting a transport service run after the subsidy has run out? All my train lines only make about 2k a month without subsidy and it maps the map look messy.
22:19:26 <ccfreak2k> As long as income isn't in the red, it doesn't matter.
22:20:59 <Eddi|zuHause2> rasco: try "full load" orders, it may improve your transported cargo amounts, and thus your income
22:22:27 <Lakie> frosch123: what was the verdict on that vbar7b?
22:25:15 * Lakie didn't notice it in the nightly builds...
22:25:27 <Lakie> Though haven't check too far back
22:25:29 <frosch123> no, i did not yet :)
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22:45:26 <Zuu> ccfreak2k: Wrong - in theory it could happen that the captial that will be earned from selling the trains might give better pay off in a new investment.
22:45:50 <Zuu> In practice player time is limited and you just don't want to bother.
22:46:11 <ccfreak2k> I think rondje would be the only bot that cared.
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23:08:27 <E_mE> hi, i've having problems with getting the 32Bit to work
23:09:17 <E_mE> but it does seem to appear in my newgrf list
23:10:48 <E_mE> ive also defined: [misc] .... blitter = "32bpp-optimized"
23:12:45 <E_mE> I even put the file into OpenTTD/Content/Resource/data/
23:15:54 <glx> doesn't this pack require extrazoom patch ?
23:18:11 <E_mE> ive got extra zoom installed
23:18:16 <E_mE> that one appears in the list
23:18:47 <E_mE> 32bbp Extra NewGRF nightly r39
23:18:52 <E_mE> thats what i've activated
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23:20:32 <E_mE> actually i think it maybe working
23:20:46 <E_mE> just looks little odd hehe
23:25:23 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21533 /trunk/src/pathfinder/opf/opf_ship.cpp: -Codechange: replace some magic numbers with less magic constants
23:40:47 <Yexo> E_mE: the extra zoom patch is a seperate binary that you need to install, the "32bppe extra newgrrf" is a newgrf that is meant for that patch openttd version. You won't get extra zoom in the normal openttd no matter what newgrf/graphics you download
23:41:23 <E_mE> Yexo: is there an OSX binary available?
23:43:09 <Yexo> or you could try to build it yourself
23:44:18 <Ammler> or ask the dev to update the patch, so it would trigger a new nightly build, afaik nightlies do again build osx
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23:57:25 <E_mE> Yexo: i tried to compile while back with little success
continue to next day ⏵
