IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-12-15
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01:30:36 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: planetmaker * r21522 /trunk/src/video/cocoa/cocoa_v.mm: -Fix: [OSX] Silence a warning when compiling without quartz and quickdraw
01:30:38 <SmatZ> yay, Kendra Sex Videos! but the link doesn't really work :(
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08:09:44 <George> Hi. Is it possible to convert scenario into heigh map?
08:10:51 <Terkhen> George: not that I know of
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08:26:27 <George> when creating a new scenario it is possible to make map edges a land tiles, not water tiles. How to do the same for the old scenario?
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08:27:35 <IchGuckLive> Good morning from icy germany
08:28:35 <IchGuckLive> i good a problem building a electrical station beside a normal station the town does not accept stations anymore ?
08:29:16 <IchGuckLive> can i upgrade the track od the normal one to a electrical qwithout the town permission
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08:36:16 <Markavian> the station area might be too large
08:37:28 <Terkhen> George: that can be changed in advanced settings -> construction -> enable terraforming on map borders, but I don't think that it can be changed ingame
08:37:58 <IchGuckLive> so i have to remove 1 station before i can build a new one after serten time
09:01:05 <Terkhen> good morning planetmaker
09:03:44 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: terkhen * r21523 /trunk/src/settings.cpp: -Fix: Some windows were not updated correctly after a train acceleration model change.
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09:27:57 <norbert79> Good morning planetmaker, Terkhen, CIA-10 ;-)
09:28:05 <norbert79> PolymorphZ: Same for you too! :)
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09:33:24 <andythenorth> for industrial trams in buy menu, is it need to have the suffixes (Steam), (Diesel), (Electric) ?
09:33:52 <planetmaker> not needed. But some people would consider it interesting
09:34:02 <andythenorth> not enough space currently
09:34:14 <andythenorth> but HEQS names are already truncated a lot
09:34:15 <planetmaker> (I don't really care too much. You could add it as additional info)
09:34:21 <planetmaker> in a separate line
09:34:38 <Terkhen> yes, IMO additional info would be enough
09:35:46 <andythenorth> the question comes up again - should trams be a separate vehicle type?
09:36:06 <andythenorth> are they 'Road Vehicles'?
09:37:12 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I wanted to name a Krauss engine as 'Allach', but after wiki-search, I don't like the other assocations :(
09:38:59 <planetmaker> hm, why, andythenorth ?
09:39:21 <norbert79> too many Osama Bin Laden pictured popped up :D
09:39:28 <andythenorth> ww2 slave labour camp :o
09:40:22 <norbert79> right... Misread, I didn't notice the C in Allach
09:40:36 <norbert79> Well, Allach also produces china too
09:40:54 * andythenorth avoids a godwin's law moment
09:40:58 <andythenorth> back to the code :P
09:40:59 <planetmaker> the first 20 google hits don't mention it on first sight. Seems to be one of Krauss-Maffei's production sites, part of greater Munich
09:41:06 <andythenorth> planetmaker: yup
09:43:26 <planetmaker> I guess you might be right. But on that grounds you have to let go many German place names ;-)
09:43:53 <norbert79> well, this way you could let go too many names
09:44:04 <norbert79> since evry place in Europe has something bad too to tied with
09:44:22 <norbert79> where good things happen, bad things happen too
09:44:51 <norbert79> just look at the good side of things, and let go of the bad ones :)
09:44:58 <planetmaker> well, KZs are kind of the worst from bad times. But well...
09:45:30 <norbert79> planetmaker: Hey, like noone else has suffered, right? Besides it didn't start with Germany, such camps existed before too
09:45:55 <planetmaker> norbert79: certainly not "like no-one else has suffered".
09:46:26 <norbert79> planetmaker: I do not want to lower its significance, but don't think Germany was the biggest bad boy in History... Despite what the goverment of yours try to tell you...
09:46:29 <planetmaker> But still KZs are a symbol of and for evil - independent whether and where the same was done earlier and later
09:47:02 <andythenorth> it's an unpleasant association in a game
09:47:07 <andythenorth> and I'm avoiding it :)
09:47:28 <norbert79> andythenorth: Pff... Ok, this way avoid any word... Just pick any city/town/village and I can come up with any bad thing
09:47:53 <norbert79> New Orleans... Ooh, flooding... Budapest? Pest... the illnes... Munchen? 1972... Shall I continuee? :)
09:49:02 <norbert79> Don't overdue this kind of avoiding of using bad things... It's just like being extreme christain... Like don't even breath, because you take away the oxygene from those nice animals...
09:50:04 <norbert79> andythenorth: And one more thing... It's like the ww2 games... Noone really associtaes them with the actual real killings, because it's a GAME
09:52:02 <norbert79> It was already a laughing matter, that GTA San Andres got almost banned, because of the hidden love-game inside, but the goverment never freaked out because youi can kill in the game...
09:54:24 <norbert79> andythenorth: besides, if you have never mentioned the KZ camp, it never came to my mind... I was immidetally assocxiating Allach with porcelain
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10:31:54 * dihedral will order a laptop in 30 mins
10:32:43 <planetmaker> please send it to my address, if you do so
10:33:35 <PolymorphZ> so you can code openttd everywhere? <;
10:37:09 <planetmaker> PolymorphZ: the only working private computer I own is a laptop...
10:40:08 <PolymorphZ> for lazy programmers to wash floor <;
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11:19:29 <Eddi|zuHause> i have a feeling all this snow that's been lying here for two weeks now will melt exactly one day before christmas :p
11:26:11 <Ozin> hey all, quick question: I can't use newgrfs of my own choosing on any scenarios since updating from stable to the latest nightly, is this intended?
11:26:37 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. you must set the newgrfs before starting the scenario
11:27:04 <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. you can't add newgrfs to existing scenarios
11:27:13 <Ozin> I don't get the choice to select my own though, I have to use the ones that are intended for the specific scenario
11:27:51 <Ozin> mkay, that feature is only supported in stable versions then?
11:28:14 <Eddi|zuHause> Ozin: it will be removed from any future stable versions
11:28:19 <planetmaker> it's a mis-feature which very frequently crash(ed) OpenTTD and lead to many broken scenarios on bananas
11:28:26 <Eddi|zuHause> because it has dangerouse side effects
11:28:31 <andythenorth> planetmaker: does "Sächsischen" make sense as a locomotive name?
11:28:44 <planetmaker> NewGRFs are part of the map and must be added prior to map creation
11:28:54 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: there's an engine called "Saxonia"
11:28:55 <planetmaker> andythenorth: "Sächsische"
11:28:56 <Ozin> oh, why? I see no reason why you can't choose the newgrfs of your own choosing before starting a game?
11:29:20 <planetmaker> it must preceed the name
11:29:23 <Ozin> I understand why you shouldn't do it in a running game ofc
11:29:25 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it was the first engine constructed in germany
11:29:46 <planetmaker> Ozin: a scenario is also just a savegame
11:29:59 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it depends heavily on what you combine this with.
11:30:09 <andythenorth> Sächsische Industrial Tram
11:30:37 <Ozin> thanks for clearing that up
11:30:52 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: sounds weird ;)
11:31:02 <planetmaker> andythenorth: I guess I'd use the English name there.
11:31:07 <planetmaker> Saxonian industrial tram
11:31:30 <andythenorth> What's Saxony translate as?
11:31:42 <planetmaker> what does British translate to
11:32:02 <planetmaker> Saxony is Englisch for Sachsen
11:33:28 <planetmaker> well. Saxonia is a name. But the manufacturer is either "Sächsische Maschinenfabrik" or totally translated "Saxonian machinery works"
11:33:44 <planetmaker> not sure it's a good way to translate the manufacturer's name, though
11:34:08 <Eddi|zuHause> shouldn't it rather be just "saxon"?
11:34:24 <andythenorth> but that sounds like it's going to get killed by an arrow
11:34:44 <andythenorth> ach, I'll do it a different way :)
11:34:58 <planetmaker> probably, Eddi|zuHause
11:35:13 <andythenorth> I break my convention :P
11:35:24 <planetmaker> what's your convention?
11:36:04 <andythenorth> trams are named after places where the real company was located
11:36:15 <andythenorth> now for steam trams I go for names of engineers :P
11:38:25 <planetmaker> of both, vehicles as well as manufacturer
11:39:07 <planetmaker> even if I contradict myself - seems that only the adjective form is used within that context as the name itself
11:41:05 * andythenorth breaks the 'no real manufacturer names' rule :(
11:41:37 <planetmaker> what's wrong with giving the real manufacturer? I thought you did that already ;-)
11:41:48 <andythenorth> for several reasons
11:42:41 <andythenorth> in fact, I'm not going to do it now either :)
11:46:13 <TrueBrain> Ammler: don't expect me to realise who the fuck you are if you PM me with some weird alias :p I tend to ignore those PMs :p Got it fixed / back working again?
11:48:16 <planetmaker> machine is working again
11:48:49 <Ammler> TrueBrain: lol, sorry :-)
11:49:13 <Ammler> the hypervisor manager doesn't officially support sw raid and I messed with it :-)
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11:50:55 <Ammler> well, after all I am happy, I gave me more time to investigate the error instead of just setup fresh and copy the vps
11:52:08 <Ammler> which I would have done, if there were some time pressure like "money" or so...
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12:53:29 <andythenorth> designing tram stats is tricky :P
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13:09:45 <norbert79> Heh, this weather reminds me to Max Payne, and the Finitos Hotel level, where two bums were talking how freezing it is...
13:15:54 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I need to design new tram refit schemas :)
13:16:05 <andythenorth> I found your help very useful last time :P
13:16:16 <andythenorth> ...or....I could just reduce capacity
13:16:27 <andythenorth> I'll try reducing capacity first
13:25:45 <Terkhen> Wolf01: I bought the last one, and I think I'll buy the new one as well
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14:19:31 <Belugas> good day to you too, noble gentlemen
14:21:07 <Markk> How are you doing this delightful day?
14:22:10 <Belugas> keyboard punching like a crazy fool
14:22:19 <Belugas> doing surgery on my code
14:22:47 <Belugas> and ... in christmas spirit somehow, all the office is decorated :)
14:26:17 <Belugas> CHOUCROUTE GARNIE!!!!
14:33:48 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r21524 /trunk/src/pathfinder/ (npf/npf.cpp yapf/yapf_costrail.hpp): -Fix [FS#4302]: Do not apply the last signal red pathfinder penalty when the signal is a path signal.
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15:46:55 * andythenorth wonders sadly about possibility of rv-wagons :(
15:47:08 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i wouldn't hold my breath for it.
15:47:38 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i think it's mainly a gui problem, though.
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15:49:17 <Belugas> speaking of breath holding...
15:50:26 <DanMacK> Hey, if TTDP can have attatchable RV's, why can't open? :P
15:51:36 <frosch123> it was said it is only a debugging feature
15:51:44 <Lakie> Because attachable rv's was for testing...
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16:19:31 <SystemParadox> DanMacK, attachable RVs? Got a link for that?
16:23:25 <Terkhen> andythenorth: I have already started unifying as much RV and train code as possible
16:24:11 <Wolf01> is possible to remove (and stop the creation) of AIs when playing?
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16:25:13 <frosch123> Wolf01: set number of competitors to zero?
16:25:32 <frosch123> and kill their companies via console
16:25:39 <frosch123> stop_ai <company_number>
16:26:44 <Wolf01> no cab started to piss off with subway stations all around the map and invisible trains :/
16:26:53 <Terkhen> road vehicles don't have a cache anymore, many non-acceleration values are shared in a single cache for road vehicles and train
16:27:08 <Eddi|zuHause> the requirements of a new road depot gui are imho: allow both a train-like display and composition of long vehicle chains and a large number of single vehicle
16:27:38 <Terkhen> I have also unified some GUI code between both vehicle types (see yesterday commits)
16:28:37 <Terkhen> so in theory we would only need to make the existing depot GUI code affect road vehicles too once they have the required variables / functions
16:29:25 <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: yes, but showing one road vehicle per line at a time (like train depot) is kinda counterproductive in many cases
16:29:50 <Eddi|zuHause> most road vehicles won't even allow attaching vehicles
16:29:56 <frosch123> does "only" include the commands for moving wagons, clone and autoreplace :p
16:30:03 <Terkhen> yeah, for rvs attaching is the exception
16:30:09 <Terkhen> frosch123: it is a huge only :)
16:30:32 <andythenorth> imo the ability of rv depots to show large numbers of single vehicles is over-rated
16:31:14 <frosch123> btw. rv wagons show how boring busses are :)
16:31:22 <Eddi|zuHause> what i'm imagining is that long road vehicle chains automatically consume more than one "cell" of the current rv matrix
16:31:51 <Eddi|zuHause> i wouldn't do that.
16:31:57 <andythenorth> once you have a large number of vehicles, the only sane thing to do is use 'start/stop all' flags, and 'scrap all' button
16:32:07 <andythenorth> anything else is insane amounts of clicking
16:32:33 <Terkhen> if such a complicated GUI is required I'm out :)
16:32:40 <frosch123> andythenorth: rv are still shorter than trains
16:32:49 <frosch123> so you could as well add two columns or so
16:33:12 <andythenorth> but you need the 'spare' line for assembling trains
16:33:18 <andythenorth> would look weird no?
16:33:24 <andythenorth> two columns + spare line (full width)
16:33:24 <Terkhen> since only NewGRFs would have rv wagons, the GUI could change if there's a NewGRF that includes them
16:33:33 <Terkhen> that would give the new GUI only to those who need it
16:33:47 <Eddi|zuHause> that's gonna cause confusion ;)
16:35:05 <andythenorth> it has issues anyway
16:35:43 <Terkhen> andythenorth: in recent nightlies it shouldn't show any part of the sprite outside the cell
16:36:03 <andythenorth> that's older - r21349
16:37:17 <Terkhen> I forgot that I still have not commited partial refit
16:37:58 <frosch123> btw. is the huge unused space between the number and the vehicle only to make 4-digit vehicle numers fit?
16:39:38 <frosch123> maybe the vehicle should just start after the number... though the vehicles are not aligned in that case
16:40:11 <andythenorth> what do train depots do....?
16:40:31 <andythenorth> what's the need for keeping the cells in rv depots? except for tradition?
16:40:56 <frosch123> they align the vehicles, but in traindepots the relative amount of space for the number is less noticeable :p
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16:46:32 <Eddi|zuHause> auto-calculate the width of the number and align the vehicles?
16:47:49 <retro> Hello. Is officialy ARM suported ?
16:48:55 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think any developer has an ARM device. but as long as you have the required libraries for your architecture, compiling should not be a problem.
16:49:26 <V453000> andythenorth: HEQS migrates to toyland? :D
16:49:34 <peter1138> it's compiled for ARM by debian
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16:52:39 <retro> I would like to play OpenTTD on Maemo (N900).
16:52:40 <DanMacK> Dunno what happened there...
16:52:46 <retro> But in repo is only 0.7.4 versioin.
16:52:54 <retro> And broken - will not start.
16:55:28 <Eddi|zuHause> retro: we can't do much about it, your best approach would be just taking a development kit for this device, and try to compile yourself
16:56:08 <Eddi|zuHause> retro: also, i'm pretty sure there's an old thread about maemo buried in the forums
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16:59:03 <retro> Eddi|zuHause: I try crosscompile.
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17:33:27 <Wolf01> meh, modular locomotive sheds are cool, but please, make the front wall to be on top and not behind the trains :P
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17:51:16 <Ammler> wow server admins found out that space is better than "!" for list sorting :-)
17:52:07 <dihedral> still provide a shitty service :-P
17:58:25 <SmatZ> Ammler: I wonder when they start entering \001 as the first char
17:58:26 <SpComb> join me on my server, it's called
17:58:46 <SmatZ> hmm actually it doesn't work :)
17:59:13 <SmatZ> OTTD replaces \001 by ?
18:00:25 <dihedral> openttd does or the master server does?
18:01:18 <SmatZ> but \00A isn't replaced :p
18:01:28 <dihedral> so i could patch my client :-P
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18:05:58 <Terkhen> it would be better to use another default sorting criteria that cannot be set so easily
18:06:08 <Terkhen> but I don't know which one :P
18:06:14 <dihedral> clients, then companies, then name? :-P
18:07:39 <Terkhen> attention seeking servers would then add idling clients or just send wrong client count to the master server
18:08:04 <SpComb> too common in other games
18:08:16 <Terkhen> yeah, I have seen that in many places too
18:09:06 <Terkhen> sort by substring starting at the first non stupid symbol
18:11:33 <SmatZ> dihedral: first is always sorted server with empty name :)
18:11:41 <SmatZ> it's not very useful though...
18:11:51 <Terkhen> in this case they could use "aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaServer Name" but it would look stupid
18:12:50 <dihedral> SmatZ, so i could patch my openttd server to send the masterserver a name of " " :-P
18:13:10 <dihedral> in fact, i could simply write a java app that would pretend to be a openttd server that nobody could join :-D
18:13:14 <SmatZ> if you want to have unnamed server :)
18:13:36 <SpComb> dihedral: or a java app that pretends to be a thousand openttd servers, for that fact
18:13:52 <SmatZ> dihedral: actually, it doesn't matter what you send to the master server, but what you send to clients
18:14:28 <Ammler> Terkhen: also don't forget the non-latin servers
18:14:51 <Terkhen> it would only ignore symbols that never are letters, such as spaces or !
18:15:04 <Terkhen> natural sorting should take care of the rest
18:15:49 <Terkhen> hmm... although non-latin characters probably go always last or something like that
18:16:13 <dihedral> but i want to be seen on servers.openttd.org too :-P
18:21:07 * DanMacK wonders if someone could PM him the original TTD Toyland Sprite Sheet in PNG format
18:22:28 <planetmaker> don't you have any grfcodec?
18:23:25 <planetmaker> grfcodec -d -o png trgtr.grf
18:24:21 <DanMacK> I've got it on my PC at home, but it's not doing me alot of good here :P
18:24:54 <Eddi|zuHause> just ssh into it ;)
18:26:29 <planetmaker> check your tt-forums mail, DanMacK
18:27:36 <DanMacK> Looks like wrong palette :P I've got alot of pink ;)
18:28:02 <planetmaker> hm, probably, I didn't check ;-)
18:28:13 <planetmaker> force it to the other :-P
18:28:52 <DanMacK> Can't do that here :P
18:29:57 <planetmaker> k, same procedure again, just with -p2
18:40:09 * DanMacK is working on more Toyish tracks and wants to see how Mr. Foster aligned them :P
18:43:34 * DanMacK wonders why OpenGFX has Tram tracks when it doesn't have trams
18:44:40 <glx> because openttg.grf has tram tracks too
18:45:56 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: translators * r21525 /trunk/src/lang/ (9 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
18:45:56 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:56 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: croatian - 7 changes by VoyagerOne
18:45:56 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: czech - 3 changes by SmatZ
18:45:56 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: frisian - 19 changes by gjannema
18:45:57 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: greek - 6 changes by Gonik
18:45:57 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: hungarian - 5 changes by IPG
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19:56:09 <andythenorth> Ammler: I'm still unsure why one newgrf shouldn't provide trams and RVs?
19:57:20 <glx> a newgrf can provide both if it wants
19:57:55 <Ammler> trams aren't RVs, they use another road type
19:58:30 <Ammler> and because of that, those are different categories, so you should not have those in same newgrf
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19:58:52 <glx> anyway 1 newgrf can provide trains, RVs, trams, ships, industries, stations, ...
19:59:42 <Ammler> well, that is why I ask him for a switch
19:59:44 <Dante123> is there anyone who can help me out 1 min with a station GRF. i need a bit of help with the nfo coding
20:00:00 <Ammler> so we can at least disable either trams or rvs
20:00:03 * DanMacK runs the other way at the mention of .nfo
20:01:24 * DanMacK feels like playing a game with the USSet, but is dissuaded by one major thing
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20:04:30 <Ammler> andythenorth: one example is when you like to use heqs with trolleybuses
20:05:05 <DanMacK> If we had more road types this wouldn't be a problem :P
20:05:28 <DanMacK> Anyone working on that?
20:05:51 <Ammler> I guess, peter has a patch ;-)
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20:09:51 <DanMacK> Hopefully this proves fruitful :D
20:10:05 <Ammler> oh, and yeah, not really need to make 2 newgrfs, but a switch to enable/disable shouldn't be that complicated, is it?
20:10:52 <andythenorth> Ammler: it's likely I will add switches to HEQS for multiple vehicle groups
20:10:52 <frosch123> DanMacK: you have "pass" twice in the translation table
20:11:11 <frosch123> i thought 3 letters would be enough :p
20:11:15 <andythenorth> Ammler: so e.g. bulldozers can be turned on/off, trams, trucks etc
20:11:43 <Ammler> that is no real need, someone just don't need to use it
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20:12:25 <Ammler> hmm, someone also just doesn't need to use trams :-)
20:12:39 <Ammler> well, do whatever fits you: :-P
20:14:36 <frosch123> Dante123: you also have coal twice
20:14:55 <andythenorth> Ammler: you argue for or against turning some vehicles off now? :o :D
20:15:11 * DanMacK would like to use Trolley Buses as well as industrial trams :P
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20:16:18 <Dante123> frosch123 yes, this was just a test for now
20:16:55 <Dante123> frosch123 so thats why some are multiple times in the table atm
20:16:59 <frosch123> well, but with duplicates it will obviously not work
20:17:14 <Dante123> so i wanted to test first if that action 3 was working before optimality that table
20:17:22 <Dante123> pass is also in multiple times
20:19:01 <Ammler> andythenorth: not against, but that would be luxuary, a overall switch for trams and one for rvs would be fine enough, imo
20:19:15 <Dante123> i think duplicate labels in action 8 shouldnt be the problem
20:20:16 <andythenorth> Ammler: to address the complaints about AI choices, I might as well make it possible to turn off some of the more stupid vehicles :)
20:20:28 <Dante123> well i can just put something else there, but i bet the problem will not be fixed :P
20:21:08 <andythenorth> HEQS also has trains
20:21:59 <Dante123> frosch123 ok i kicked out the first pass and first coal and changed them for other labels so there are 0 duplicate labels now.
20:22:06 <Dante123> frosch123 will test again now
20:23:22 <planetmaker> Dante123: I found out that it's a good idea to actually only include those cargo labels which you actually need in order to fulfill your explicit refit masks
20:25:03 <Dante123> frosch123 nope, still not working
20:25:31 <Dante123> planetmaker what you mean ? in action 8 only define the ones you gonne need ?
20:25:59 <Dante123> planetmaker first i try to get that action 3 working so i can make 1 station work with the changing sprites for more than just 1 cargo
20:26:15 <Dante123> example would be BRICKS from ECS and Building materials from FIRS
20:26:26 <frosch123> Dante123: i cannot see anything wrong in the pasted code
20:26:44 <Dante123> both have a brick factory, but different cargo output :/
20:26:46 <frosch123> i assume you are using nforenum to spot trivial syntax errors
20:27:03 <frosch123> maybe check your action 8 whether you are also using grf version 7
20:27:08 <Dante123> no errors from renum on that part
20:27:29 <Dante123> line 2 in the nfo says: // (Info version 7)
20:27:39 <frosch123> that is not the important part :)
20:27:51 <frosch123> "grf version 7" and "nfo version 7" are different things
20:28:07 <Dante123> how do i check such a thing? :D
20:28:16 <frosch123> take a look at your action 8
20:28:38 <frosch123> (the one with your grf name)
20:29:44 <Dante123> what part to check ? :D
20:30:16 <frosch123> <sprite-number> * <length> 08 <version> <grf-id> <name> <description>
20:31:29 <frosch123> and file a bug report, ottd should reject version 00 and 01
20:33:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i heard about version 5 grfs out there... but version 1? :p
20:34:25 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: current ttdp cannot handle version 00 and 01 anymore. they were completely dropped at some point
20:34:33 <frosch123> some big change in the past :)
20:34:49 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i think i saw a table somewhere
20:34:54 <Dante123> nope, still not working
20:35:05 <Dante123> Passengers work, coal not
20:35:48 <frosch123> no idea then, not enough information :)
20:36:01 <Dante123> ok let me post that whole station part
20:36:27 <frosch123> it would be easier if i could look at it via grf2html
20:37:01 * DanMacK hopes more progress gets made on roadtypes
20:37:25 <Dante123> grf2html, dont have that
20:37:34 <Dante123> heard yesterday for the first time about that
20:40:16 <frosch123> hard to find something not-ancient in that list :)
20:40:54 <Eddi|zuHause> Dante123: a word of advice: when you change a value in a line, also change the comment behind the //
20:41:18 <Dante123> heheh yea my bad habbit when testing stuff, quick changing and see what happens :D
20:41:22 <Eddi|zuHause> Dante123: it is really difficult to read something out of a line "1B // check for 00"
20:41:31 <Eddi|zuHause> and later "05 // check for 00"
20:41:44 <Eddi|zuHause> it doesn't make any sense and makes reviewing really difficult
20:41:55 <Dante123> mm yea, sorry for that
20:42:28 <Eddi|zuHause> and also when it says "// container", when it actually means "// coal"
20:42:46 <Dante123> yea, its best to ignore the comments :/
20:43:52 <Dante123> but within code itself i dont see what i do wrong :/
20:44:07 <Eddi|zuHause> question: why do you have two action 3 in the end?
20:44:37 <frosch123> Dante123: btw. "what" does not work
20:45:09 <Dante123> the very last one was to get it working right in the building menu
20:45:24 <Dante123> ok what i try to do:
20:45:51 <Dante123> the station tile is cargo dependent, so it should change depending on how much cargo is waiting
20:46:08 <Eddi|zuHause> Dante123: i'm pretty sure that's the problem. you can't have two action 3 for the same station.
20:46:14 <Dante123> now, with the current action 2 i had now, i can only use 1 cargo ID
20:46:42 <Dante123> now in pm i have gotten the advide to use lables and not cargo ID's
20:46:59 <Dante123> but now i want to use more than 1 labelID for the station tile
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20:47:16 <Dante123> so the sprite changing (cargo dep) works on more than just 1 type of cargo
20:47:31 <Dante123> ecample would be the BRICKS from ecs and buildingmat from FIRS
20:47:44 <Dante123> my sprite with bricks should work for both of these 2 lables
20:47:48 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: it's not the same station
20:48:05 <Dante123> but in both sets its a "brick factory"
20:48:24 <Dante123> but in both sets the cargo output is just a little bit different
20:48:48 <Dante123> but it whould be a bummer if it can only work for firs OR ecs. i want it to work with both :P
20:48:55 <andythenorth> The parameter gui is still nightlies only?
20:49:03 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: yes.
20:49:10 <planetmaker> andythenorth: yes. But don't bother
20:49:10 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it'll be in 1.1
20:49:23 <planetmaker> bother with versions where it's not around ;-)
20:49:33 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I can't be bothered to explain how to set purchase /running costs using numbers
20:49:34 <planetmaker> unless you strive for perfection ;-)
20:49:35 <andythenorth> and I don't know
20:49:42 <Dante123> so that is what i try to do with my set :P
20:49:44 <planetmaker> andythenorth: 9 = normal
20:49:59 <planetmaker> each number less: /2 each number more: *2
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20:50:22 <andythenorth> what's max value?
20:51:12 <frosch123> Dante123: and what does not work?
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20:53:16 <Dante123> so as a test i did in that action 3 tied to make it work for 2
20:53:27 <Dante123> for coal and passengers, just as a test
20:53:37 <Dante123> now passengers work, but the coals does not
20:54:07 <Dante123> no errors or whatever, just the first sprite wont change to the next one for when there is cargo waiting
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20:56:29 <Dante123> i think it is in that last part with the 2 action 3 lines :/
20:57:11 <frosch123> Dante123: did you already try the newgrf debug window and checked var 60?
20:57:34 <Dante123> im new to the whole grf /coding :P
20:57:40 <Dante123> for about 2/3 months now
20:57:58 <Eddi|zuHause> i can't read anything out of this code...
21:04:42 <Dante123> but a glitch appears now :/
21:08:02 <frosch123> was was wrong with the action 3?
21:08:07 <Dante123> its ááálmost working (so my experience says its still far from because for each fix in the code you get 2 new errors back)
21:08:21 <Dante123> problebly the fact there were 2 xD
21:08:53 <Dante123> only now that glitch to fix... somehow.... pfff
21:09:32 <Lakie> I'm pretty sure only the last action3 takes effect
21:09:53 <Dante123> yea i merged it now into 1
21:09:57 <frosch123> but the second action3 was for station 8c, wasn't it?
21:09:57 <andythenorth> Dante123: won't fix your issue...but...
21:09:58 <andythenorth> comments are a matter of taste, but I would recommend a different comment style
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21:10:27 <Lakie> You should see how I (don't) comment my code, andythenorth...
21:10:39 <Dante123> to be honest, once i learned what the stuff does, i dont look at the comments anymore (only very rare)
21:11:10 <frosch123> oh, wait, so the 8c one was the correct one, while the 00 one was wrong
21:11:10 <andythenorth> I find they help me a lot
21:11:21 <andythenorth> even to see what's wrong with the code
21:11:49 <Dante123> any1 have a idea how to kill that glitch ? :/
21:12:04 <Lakie> Sometimes, often though I only find it nessarily to leave them as guidance as to what section is and sometimes purpose of a pesdusprite.
21:12:07 <frosch123> what glitch? the blue thing?
21:12:24 <frosch123> do you recognise than sprite in it?
21:12:27 <Dante123> some wrong offset i guess, but it did not appear with that old code :/
21:12:30 <frosch123> does it change when scrolling?
21:13:00 <Dante123> i have seen it be4 when my acation 0 offsets were not yet correct
21:13:07 <frosch123> well, i have no idea what you did, or what you did not
21:13:07 <Dante123> the offsets for mono/normal/maglev
21:13:22 <Dante123> its all in the topic xD
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21:14:08 <Dante123> bleg, i just want to go back to that drawing board. for the past week im only staring at some nfo code xD
21:14:29 <Dante123> but i lack motivation to make sprites if the code is not working xD
21:17:01 <andythenorth> Dante123: the glitch is probably a bad action 0 or bad action 2
21:17:22 <frosch123> your spritelayout callback is only in the default 0xFF case, isn't it?
21:17:47 <andythenorth> it appears in an odd place
21:17:52 <andythenorth> only once (the glitch)
21:18:08 <andythenorth> Dante123: you've enabled newgrf debug tools?
21:19:51 <Dante123> ah yea let me see that debug thing
21:20:10 <Dante123> the glitch started to appear after i changed action3 :|
21:20:36 <andythenorth> Dante123: go to the '?' menu in game
21:20:42 <andythenorth> choose 'sprite aligner'
21:21:22 <andythenorth> let me know when you have it open...
21:21:36 <Dante123> you have teamviewer ?
21:21:42 <Dante123> than you can watch to
21:23:28 <Dante123> and opened sprite aligner too
21:23:41 <Dante123> also made that glitch appear too again
21:23:49 <andythenorth> Dante123: ok. now use 'pick sprite'
21:23:57 <andythenorth> and click on the glitch
21:24:25 <andythenorth> then click each number in the column on the right, see what sprite it is
21:25:00 <Dante123> yea its that future heli
21:25:22 <andythenorth> so probably you have an action 2 referring to that
21:25:28 <andythenorth> but I don't code stations :(
21:25:32 <andythenorth> but at least you know the issue
21:25:41 <andythenorth> for some reason another sprite is being composited with your station
21:25:55 <Dante123> but strange enough, before i changed the action 3 it did not appear :|
21:26:11 <Dante123> but it only appears on some of the sprites
21:26:40 <Dante123> example only 2 of the 10 same tiles in the same station
21:26:54 <frosch123> Dante123: i am quite sure it is your spritelayout callback
21:27:06 <frosch123> you only have it in the default case, and not in the coal, pass or FE case
21:27:16 <Dante123> but it did not happen be4 :/
21:27:20 <frosch123> so it will fall back to the default spritelayouts which use 8 sprites or so
21:27:31 <frosch123> Dante123: because you only had the default case before
21:27:38 <Dante123> its happens on passengers and coal too
21:28:17 <frosch123> before you did not have any coal or pass cases
21:28:24 <frosch123> the action3 only had ff and default case
21:28:42 <frosch123> and the default case is correct
21:28:47 <Dante123> yea is only the action 3 that changed (and added a new action 2 for the second cargo in action 3)
21:29:07 *** Adambean` is now known as Adambean
21:29:23 <frosch123> basically you have to duplicate what you are doing in the defaultcase for callback to the other cargo cases
21:29:26 <andythenorth> Dante123: what are cargos 15 and 51?
21:29:47 <frosch123> andythenorth: that are the action2 ids, not the cargos
21:29:48 <Dante123> 15 and 51 are the linked action 2 lines
21:29:58 <Dante123> where i define what sprite to show on what cargo numbers
21:30:01 <andythenorth> cargos 1B and 05
21:30:15 <andythenorth> I'm just checking the action 3 for myself
21:30:24 <Dante123> 1B = passengers and 05 the coal
21:31:06 <andythenorth> normally it's easier to leave default cargos with the same IDs as default IDs
21:31:11 <andythenorth> but it doesn't matter
21:31:12 <andythenorth> just saves thinking
21:31:18 <Dante123> yea i just changed it for the sake of testing :p
21:31:39 <Dante123> once the theory is working, i will write a proper cargo table
21:31:57 <Dante123> but there is no use of writing the cargo table if this all is not working
21:32:28 <andythenorth> I just recommented your action 3. Doesn't help fix your problem :P But is in the thread
21:34:36 <Dante123> pfff totally driving me nuts
21:35:14 <Lakie> Wait 'til you see some of the more advanced things...
21:35:24 <Dante123> am getting at that point (you probably know the feeling) where you think of: srew it, im out this grf sh*t
21:36:11 <Lakie> Maybe, its the persistance to keep learning
21:36:25 <Dante123> yea but i do it as a hobby in my spare time :P
21:36:40 <Dante123> i dont want to take it as a daytime job with full education for bfo coding
21:36:42 <Lakie> Once you understand many things, it becomes less of such a bother when it fails
21:37:17 <Dante123> even the people here that are coding pros dont see what to do to fix this code
21:38:01 <andythenorth> Dante123: I think I know what the issue is
21:38:15 <Dante123> well the correct persion i should ask is the one that made ISR, but it looks like that person if far gone by now
21:38:33 <andythenorth> in your action 3 - you go to varact 2 ID 02 for 'default'
21:38:51 <andythenorth> but for coal, passengers, you go to 15 and 51
21:39:01 <andythenorth> which bypass all the callback handling you're trying to do
21:39:31 <andythenorth> do you know how to read back up the action 2 / 3 chain?
21:39:41 <Dante123> mm yea. normaly it will go trough 03 (check)
21:39:43 <andythenorth> start at the bottom...just follow the IDs up for different things
21:40:07 <andythenorth> so build menu and 'default' have callbacks handled
21:40:21 <andythenorth> but 15 / 51 are action 2 IDs to define sprite layouts?
21:41:01 <Dante123> bit without the 15/51 and only defining the cargo ID in action 2 (ID 15) it worked fine
21:41:25 <andythenorth> the 15 / 51 are the problem
21:41:33 <Dante123> yea, in those action 2 chains i define what grapic to show for what nr of cargo is waiting
21:41:36 <andythenorth> change 15 and 51 to 02
21:41:41 <andythenorth> see if the glitch goes away
21:42:09 <Dante123> so i have 05 02 00 and 1B 02 00
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21:44:34 <andythenorth> but now you don't have graphic support for pass / coal cargos :P
21:44:39 <andythenorth> you need more code :)
21:45:38 * DanMacK hopes krtaylor has his Alaska Railroad sprites in his back pocket...
21:46:27 <Dante123> yea the coal is not working now xD
21:47:09 <Dante123> so i have to copy/paste that ID 02 code and make that ID 22 (for example
21:47:13 <Lakie> Of course nor, you nned to duplicate the callback chains from action2 '02' for those cargos pointing to the right graphics etc
21:47:49 * Lakie has one test object with a scary amount of action2layouts...
21:47:50 <Dante123> btw, for ID's can you only use 00-99 or also 1A-1F
21:48:06 <andythenorth> Dante123: more likely you should be able to use 1 more varact 2 to check the cargo type
21:48:16 <andythenorth> but....I don't know how to code stations :)
21:48:35 <Lakie> That sounds like a reasonable idea, though
21:49:38 <Dante123> ok i changed the code
21:49:44 <Dante123> time to renum and compile again
21:50:56 <andythenorth> Dante123: if you think you're going to continue with the project, it's worth getting a better newgrf build system, e.g. the openttd coop style
21:51:11 <andythenorth> it has a makefile that means you can template code a lot more for reuse
21:51:22 <andythenorth> and version control
21:51:25 <Lakie> I just use "renum foo.nfo && grfcodec -e foo ."...
21:51:55 <Lakie> But from a proper project point of view, version control and such does have its benifits.
21:54:45 <Dante123> ok all seems to work now :D
21:55:07 <andythenorth> if it works it works
21:55:11 <Dante123> my project goal: be a concurrent for ISR
21:55:19 <andythenorth> there are more and less efficient ways to code nfo, but if it works...
21:55:23 <Dante123> im over 130 sprites atm xD
21:55:56 <Dante123> i swear to notepad++ and besides that i use photoshop / grfcodec -e / renum
21:56:20 <Dante123> just all those other tools that i tryed crash, or seem to be bugged, etc xD
21:56:35 <Dante123> or have problems with my win 7, 64 bit system
21:57:25 <Lakie> I think only my test objects grf has more than 50~ sprites in it
21:58:06 <Lakie> (141 sprites, with 32 in another set and 50 in the latest object)...
21:58:08 <Dante123> but im only into the grf stuf for 2/3 months now ;)
21:58:32 <Dante123> previous i was more into the gameserver stuff (Wolf:ET mod making and stuff like that)
21:58:42 <Dante123> but still have 2 gameserver running :P
21:59:20 <Lakie> In fairness I above a lot of sprites by combining action0s and action4s.
21:59:49 <Dante123> i still need to learn to code newobjects too
22:00:03 <Dante123> those fences for example, those are now station tiles
22:00:12 <Dante123> but thats nor right for stuff like that i guess
22:00:32 <Lakie> For extending stations, no
22:00:53 <Dante123> mm the goal should not to extend them,
22:01:04 <Dante123> the goal should be to make a eyecandy station
22:01:14 <Dante123> make it look like a real industrial terrain
22:01:53 <Dante123> thats one of the reasons i made my tiles seamless with the tiles from ISR, so the sets will be great together
22:02:19 <andythenorth> Dante123: you'll be cross if I redraw ISR then :P
22:02:22 <Dante123> so i try to avoid making sprites from stuff that is already in ISR
22:02:46 <Dante123> ISR is just a great, great set
22:02:55 <Dante123> but has 0 sprites for FIRS/ECS
22:03:01 <andythenorth> and the ground tiles suck a bit
22:03:03 <Dante123> thats where i want to jump in
22:03:37 <Dante123> mm well, i hope you use photoshop too ? :P
22:03:52 <Dante123> than i see options to replace tiles with that new one of yours ;)
22:04:15 <andythenorth> I do use photoshop
22:04:19 <Dante123> although ISR only draws the ground sprite 1 time, i draw it again in evey sprite
22:04:30 <andythenorth> unfortunately ISR all the ground tiles are comped together
22:04:39 <andythenorth> which means changing it is a lot of work
22:04:48 <Dante123> ISR only defines the ground sprite once
22:04:54 <Dante123> and overlay the stuff
22:05:01 <Dante123> so you only need to change 1 sprite :P
22:05:02 *** theholyduck has joined #openttd
22:05:39 <Dante123> i forbid you to change that andy xD
22:06:13 * Dante123 gives andy a twisted look (6)
22:09:01 * Belugas takes the GET OUT look
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22:13:21 <andythenorth> has someone broken 'grey' recently?
22:13:32 <andythenorth> I'm getting garbled brown for HEQS and NARS 2
22:13:42 <andythenorth> instead of a pleasing grey shade
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22:15:33 <Dante123> will be early day again tomorrow
22:15:46 <Dante123> (too early as always :D)
22:16:27 <Dante123> thanx again andythenorth
22:16:38 <Dante123> ...and all the others for the help
22:16:55 <Dante123> tomorrow i can get back to the coding/drawingboard :D
22:22:40 <planetmaker> andythenorth: did I say "congratulations" already? For your HEQS release, the first 1.0 NewGRF release of yours? Kudos!
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22:32:51 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21526 /trunk/src/lang/polish.txt: -Fix: failure of WT3 to properly validate some strings...
22:42:10 * DanMacK raises a pint to Andy on the 1.0 release of HEQS
22:45:52 *** JVassie_ has joined #openttd
22:50:56 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21527 /trunk/src/lang/polish.txt: -Fix (r21526, r21525): should ofcourse make sure I fix all wrong strings...
22:51:18 <andythenorth> actually composting vehicle sprites with action 2 might not be a bad idea :P
22:51:53 <andythenorth> fixing pixels for n variations on a single vehicle with copy and paste...is painful :(
23:04:57 * DanMacK doesn't know how many times he's "cmpleted" a sprite only to have some views be off...
23:05:14 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: smatz * r21528 /trunk/src/lang/czech.txt: -Add: plural 'genders' for Czech translation
23:06:29 *** andythenorth has left #openttd
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23:23:44 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21529 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Doc: update comment after function name change (Krille)
23:44:02 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: smatz * r21530 /trunk/src/lang/english.txt: -Fix: remove trailing period from most of English strings
continue to next day ⏵
