IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-10-09
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00:41:11 <GhostlyDeath> That's nice, oil just went poof sometime
00:41:44 <GhostlyDeath> July of lasy year
00:41:47 <GhostlyDeath> so 1.5 years ago =/
00:45:32 <GhostlyDeath> Least I got 60k back from the train
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02:04:46 <GhostlyDeath> What's the point of puting a cinema next to a theater?
02:06:54 <GhostlyDeath> If an industry produces goods and accept passengers
02:07:00 <GhostlyDeath> If I supply passengers, would goods go up?
02:07:35 <GhostlyDeath> Also, when the information on a tile says 2/8 Goods, what does that mean?
02:08:39 <GhostlyDeath> or 1/8 passengers
02:16:26 <GhostlyDeath> or is it just some extra micro cash?
02:16:52 <GhostlyDeath> people going to/from work?
02:37:21 <De_Ghosty> 2/8 good means it supopply the dmenad of 2/8 people
02:37:45 <De_Ghosty> once u get 8/8 passenger the station covering tiles, it will accept passangers
02:38:22 <De_Ghosty> it's random generate location
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04:16:23 <GhostlyDeath> My largest town is 2x larger than the other towns all combined
04:16:47 <GhostlyDeath> a 10k population town with 5 1k population towns
04:20:22 <GhostlyDeath> Will a town expand to where it has no authority?
04:23:48 <GhostlyDeath> It appears it's building where it's listed as "None"
04:27:22 <De_Ghosty> authority is just tiles within 20 unit of the centre?
04:27:26 <De_Ghosty> or less or more don't remember
04:27:36 <De_Ghosty> they can expand indefinetly
04:32:41 <GhostlyDeath> doesn't seem to be breakling 11k, drops down to 10k
04:32:48 <GhostlyDeath> then returns to 11k
04:33:01 <GhostlyDeath> I raised the sea for this town
04:37:29 <GhostlyDeath> How long does it take for a year to pass by normal speed and fast speed?
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06:56:21 <Rubidium> moi planetmaker et al.
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08:31:34 <xiong> On Linux, I've downloaded OpenGFX and put the tarball in ~/.openttd but still, OpenTTD refuses to start, saying "Failed to find a graphics set." I have read the readmes for both OpenTTD and OpenGFX. What now?
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08:38:18 <Rubidium> read it again to see it should be in ~/.openttd/data/ ?
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08:46:26 <xiong> I'll try that, too, Rubidium. I'm trying several different approaches -- this folder, that folder, zipped, unzipped, in a folder, loose, etc.
08:47:45 <xiong> Bingo on installing OpenGFX, unzipped, into /usr/share/games/openttd/data/ -- FWIW.
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09:23:33 <andythenorth_> is beer a better cargo than food
09:24:07 <Alberth> definitely for transport :)
09:24:13 <fonsinchen> definitely! (when going to a party at least)
09:25:07 <andythenorth_> is planetmaker really here?
09:29:51 <Eddi|zuHause> what speaks against Food (Beer) subcargo?
09:30:18 <Pulec> atari have cool package on gog.com this weekend
09:30:42 <andythenorth_> Eddi|zuHause: no subcargos
09:30:46 <andythenorth_> they are a flawed concept
09:31:10 <Eddi|zuHause> they are not "flawed", they just have no gameplay effect
09:31:17 <andythenorth_> but they look like they might
09:31:31 <andythenorth_> they just add cognitive work for not a lot of fun
09:41:54 <andythenorth_> I have a hg conflict and I don't know how to resolve :o
09:43:01 <andythenorth_> I've manually resolved the differences, that was easy
09:43:14 <andythenorth_> but I don't know how to tell hg everything is now ok
09:43:50 <Alberth> and don't forget the -m !
09:48:03 <G> The problem w/ Beer as a subcargo is that the train driver would jump out and drink a bottle everytime the train has to stop
09:48:32 <Alberth> build a dedicated line for delivering beer
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11:01:02 <andythenorth_> not sure the forge idea really works :P
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11:05:24 <Rubidium> andythenorth_: only in the desert :)
11:05:39 <Rubidium> though it's probably better as an object instead of an industry
11:06:51 <JurrienK> I have a problem: I can start openTTD, can do single player games and scenario editing and stuff, but as soon as I start the multiplayer window, the game freezes
11:07:24 <JurrienK> already tried reinstalling the game, didn't help
11:08:08 <Rubidium> JurrienK: which version?
11:09:27 <Rubidium> can you try the nightly?
11:10:11 <Rubidium> (there is a bugfix going into 1.0.5 that's related to deadlocking with threads, and the networking code uses threads for address resolution)
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11:13:05 <JurrienK> Rubidium - same problem on the nightly
11:13:31 <Rubidium> is my assumption you're using Windows right?
11:13:51 <JurrienK> the strange thing is, that a few weeks ago it worked...
11:14:30 <Rubidium> then I, sadly enough, can't help you any more. Unless you're able to compile OpenTTD yourself and run it in the debugger so you can get a stack trace when it's frozen
11:14:46 <Rubidium> oh, does it use lots of CPU or none?
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11:16:27 <b_jonas> argh. the trains won't come this way at all
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11:37:50 <Rubidium> JurrienK: so that sounds like a deadlock and not an infinite loop. Still needs someone that can reproduce it and run it in the debugger
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12:02:08 <andythenorth__> stupid macintosh
12:02:16 <andythenorth__> process won't quit
12:02:32 <andythenorth__> it's running as far as the window manager is concerned, but top disagrees :P
12:02:59 <Rubidium> aqua regina will make that problem go away
12:03:31 <andythenorth__> what do I do? Immerse the mac in it?
12:04:07 <andythenorth__> I'll do it later
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12:06:18 <glevans2> when I try MP with openttd, I get lots of this in terminal window. 'dbg: [net] getaddrinfo for hostname "", port 0, address family either IPv4 or IPv6 and socket type udp failed: Address family for hostname not supported'
12:09:56 <glevans2> thats using the 'openttd-trunk-r20801-linux-generic-i686' binaries
12:10:45 <Rubidium> what distro and version of distro are you using?
12:11:20 <glevans2> Ubuntu 10.04, 32 bit
12:12:29 <Rubidium> hmm, so I can't blame oldness of distro :(
12:13:44 <glevans2> you could, 10.10 is already in RC ...
12:14:24 <glevans2> makes it nearly 6 months old ...
12:15:48 <Rubidium> well, Debian (unstable) has worked without that warning for at least 18 months, so Ubuntu's of less than 12 months old should contain roughly the same capabilities
12:17:00 * Rubidium wonders why 10.10 isn't released yet. After all it's already 2010-10-10 (in Kiribati)
12:18:01 <frosch123> was 09.09 released on 2009-09-09 ?
12:18:28 <Rubidium> but apparantly Ubuntu fancies The hitchhikers guide to the galaxy
12:19:34 <Rubidium> although for fun they should release it on 2010-10-10 20:10:10 UTC (or 2010-10-10 10:10:10+10)
12:27:09 <Speedy> hy all - yesterday all fine, today openttd crashes few seconds past connecting to a server - what can it be?
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12:28:32 <glevans2> Rubidium, I get the same error when running the 'openttd-1.0.4-linux-generic-i686' binaries, so it is probably on my end...but thanks for the assistance
12:29:15 <Alberth> Speedy: did you try another server?
12:29:54 <Speedy> all - sometimes it allready crashes in serverbrowser if waiting to long. as soon as the game connects to internet it needs max 20 sec's till a full freeze
12:31:12 <Speedy> last days played hours without problems, and didnt change anything
12:38:52 * andythenorth__ has way too many boats :P
12:39:21 <b_jonas> these Chimeras are expensive but they earn well
12:39:23 <Rubidium> Speedy: same server? If so, which one?
12:52:28 <b_jonas> long ones under the whole continent
12:53:25 <nicfer> the roadmap to 1.1.0 seems empty
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13:01:21 <SpComb> Rubidium: too much what?
13:10:09 <Speedy> rubi - reinstallation of openttd just fixed it - but cant use my old openttd.cfg - if recopy also crashing. doesnt depend on server - mostly luukland but all others - also in serverbrowser if waiting a bit longer
13:10:57 <Speedy> but think i have remade all my settings now :)
13:11:10 * andythenorth__ thinks FIRS 0.5 release might be soon ready
13:11:30 <frosch123> do it on page 100 of the thread and then request locking :p
13:12:26 * andythenorth__ wonders how FIRS translation framework works....
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13:26:46 <Terkhen> okay, I'll update the spanish translation now
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14:01:18 <andythenorth__> on a scale of 1-10, how annoying would it be to randomise produced cargos at a secondary industry?
14:01:23 <andythenorth__> (10 is highest)
14:04:42 <b_jonas> andythenorth__: could you explain in more detail what that would mean?
14:06:54 <andythenorth__> when industry is constructed, the cargo produced is chosen at random from a list
14:08:59 <b_jonas> wouldn't that only work when there are tertiary industries?
14:09:20 <andythenorth__> what does that mean? :)
14:09:43 <b_jonas> anyway, I don't see how this would be relevant at all, for until you start founding industries it's just like there were multiple industries with the same graphics
14:10:37 <andythenorth__> it means that (a) a player funding industry might not get the cargo production they were seeking (b) player constructing route to industry needs to check produced carg ofirst
14:11:28 <b_jonas> right, (b) means you have to click instead of just look at what the industry looks like (or what color it is on the map), which makes it seem like you were lazy making graphics
14:12:25 <andythenorth__> I think (b) is annoying
14:12:39 <andythenorth__> but fewer industries => better
14:13:30 <b_jonas> what if instead a secondary industry _always_ produced equal of both kinds of products (say goods and paper)
14:15:43 * Alberth ponders 'with some total', so more goods -> less paper and vv
14:17:11 <Alberth> I like predictable meaning for industries, so at least 7 or 8 annoying.
14:21:27 <b_jonas> there's also another problem with too many different industries (or products), namely that it's harder to start because it's less likely to have good short routes
14:24:09 <andythenorth__> b_jonas: currently FIRS secondary industries do always produce equal amounts of both output cargos ;)
14:24:28 <andythenorth__> Alberth: I reckon it's about an 8 as well
14:24:44 <andythenorth__> that means I need to think about the metal chain a bit more
14:28:18 <Wolf01> if ONE industry would have this behavior, like small shops in cities which might accept different goods or ONE tertiary industry which produces a different kind of goods it should be fine, if all industries will have the same appearance and the cargo is random: 10 annoying :P
14:52:49 <andythenorth__> my question applies to two industries specifically - glass works and metal foundry
14:53:15 <andythenorth__> in an ideal world, both would produce building materials, manufacturing supplies and goods
14:53:29 <andythenorth__> however only two output cargos are available :)
14:53:44 <andythenorth__> so I wondered about randomising on construction
14:53:58 <andythenorth__> the choice would be between goods and building materials
14:55:22 <andythenorth__> three output cargos is never going to happen right?
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15:00:10 <andythenorth__> would need a lot of changes
15:00:22 <andythenorth__> no bad thing to force two anyway
15:27:12 <Tidret> i'm experiencing some problems with my openttd game this morning :(... the game froze every few seconds... ever happened to one of you before?
15:29:26 * andythenorth__ thinks FIRS metal chain is under-used
15:29:44 <andythenorth__> considering adding a Fab Shop producing building materials
15:29:49 <andythenorth__> could accept chemicals
15:51:09 <Pulec> farmers still grow a lot of food even if al their field are destroyed or flooded
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16:42:25 <xiong> Hi, I'm very new. It seems when I build bus depots, they all have the same name and I can't edit a depot's name. Is this normal? Or don't I understand?
16:44:18 <frosch123> that's normal in 1.0.x
16:44:25 <frosch123> it will be different in 1.1
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16:58:49 <GhostlyDeath> My map loves the environment with 3 coal mines and two power stations
17:00:41 <xiong> Okay, well, it's both less confusing and more complex than I thought. A depot is not a station. You may only need one depot on a line; you need multiple stations, obviously.
17:01:36 <Alberth> how did you reach the idea that a depot and a station are the same thing?
17:01:40 <xiong> Now I have one depot, two bus stations, and two truck stations. However, the truck stations are in the wrong places and have no cargo.
17:02:14 <xiong> I suspect OpenTTD is heavily influenced by British usage. I'm in San Francisco.
17:02:30 <xiong> I'm surprised they're called 'trucks' and not 'lorries'.
17:02:56 <Alberth> the original game was was written by british people :)
17:03:01 <Terkhen> you should try the English(US) language
17:04:12 <xiong> Actually, I have en-us set.
17:05:03 <xiong> It's not a violation of US usage to distinguish between depot and station; but commonly, the terms are interchangeable. I'll bet a real transport pro would know better.
17:05:15 <Terkhen> then the problem is an incomplete or incorrect translation
17:05:56 * Terkhen does not know if the word translation can be used in this case
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17:06:13 <xiong> Maintenance facilities are usually called 'shops', or even 'maintenance facilities'.
17:07:07 <xiong> The word 'depot' isn't much used in US. If it's for storage and not maintenance, then 'garage' (which can also imply maintenance) or 'yard'.
17:07:40 <xiong> Ha ha, I always knew the day would come when we needed a US <-> UK Babelfish!
17:10:00 <xiong> My difficulty wasn't caused so much by the use of the word 'depot' but by my failure to understand the sophistication of the game. Most toys let a station, however called, load passengers and freight, and do maintenance, all.
17:10:34 <Alberth> having multiple depots saves the vehicles driving to the 'yard
17:11:05 <Alberth> (if you have not disabled servicing not added a depot in their orders
17:11:21 <xiong> Back when, I downloaded a free demo of RRT2 and liked it, so I bought it. Imagine my annoyance when I discovered that the full game had not much more than the demo.
17:11:26 * Alberth misses closing ) and ' a lot :p
17:11:34 <xiong> That game is seriously broken.
17:12:13 <Alberth> I have played that game too, luckily before encountering TTD :)
17:12:23 <xiong> So, if there's a depot on the road, it's not necessary to add it to the timetable? A passing vehicle will automatically put in for service?
17:12:50 <__ln__> how do i restore the taskbar to its original width once i've closed OpenTTD?
17:13:54 <Alberth> if you open the vehicle details, there is a service interval set, unless you have disabled breaksdown and enabled 'disable servicing when disabling breakdowns' (I think it is called).
17:14:30 <Alberth> xiong: also, if you add a depot in the orders for servicing, they will not go elsewhere for servicing
17:14:57 <Terkhen> I have never played any transport games besides TTD and OpenTTD... a friend showed me RRT3 but I did not like it
17:15:07 <Alberth> but yes, they will drive to a depot on their own
17:15:34 <Alberth> that's where having several depots pays off, as they have to drive less far
17:17:31 <xiong> Ah. Then it's not importantly useful to be able to distinguish depots, since you don't need to add them to the timetable by name.
17:18:56 <Alberth> timetable gets copied from the orders doesn't it? and orders get created by clicking on stations (and depots).
17:19:23 <Alberth> it is just a bit confusing when depots all have the same name
17:19:28 <xiong> Well, it's all irrelevant as far as depots are concerned.
17:19:47 <xiong> I can safely ignore them, so long as I have a few on each line.
17:20:14 <Alberth> but you can jump to the place by CTRL+click in the order list
17:20:58 <xiong> Stations are another issue. I seem to recall a setting to display the working area of a station -- the area within which goods or people are gathered. Now I can't find the setting.
17:26:36 <Terkhen> in the station building window, set "Coverage area highlight" to on
17:27:21 <xiong> It's not a global setting.
17:28:36 <xiong> You can only see coverage when building, not for built stations?
17:31:49 <xiong> Of what use are the dead-end stations? For both bus and truck I see 6 types of station; 4 are dead ends.
17:32:34 <Alberth> they were the original truck/bus stations
17:33:02 <ashb> then can have 3 in at a time
17:33:10 <ashb> the on-the-road stops can only have one
17:33:17 <ashb> and anything behind will sit in a traffic jam
17:33:39 <Alberth> also, they look more pretty in the game imho
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17:41:10 <xiong> Oh, that's a significant difference for a busy station.
17:41:35 <xiong> I have finally transported a successful cargo!
17:42:08 <xiong> My bus is still going back and forth from town to the factory. Apparently, factory workers don't ride the bus.
17:42:30 <xiong> s/back and forth/back and forth empty/
17:42:54 <xiong> I will try an intercity bus line.
17:43:12 <Katje> xiong: what does the factory's bus stop say it accepts ?
17:45:30 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r20911 /trunk/src/lang/ (spanish.txt unfinished/marathi.txt):
17:45:30 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:30 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: marathi - 42 changes by jcravi
17:45:30 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: spanish - 3 changes by Terkhen
17:47:34 <xiong> Katje, Well, it's a combined bus-truck station. It doesn't demand pax -- or supply them either. I saw that but ignored it.
17:47:52 <xiong> Now I have got an intercity line; we'll see how that performs.
17:52:01 <xiong> Hm. Buses may be harder to start than freight. Even though I have two stations, both near center of their towns, no pax await.
17:52:27 <ashb> they won't start turning up intil after the first bus arrives
17:53:03 <xiong> Perhaps this is just terribly realistic: Freight is profitable, pax are not, but good pax service improves community relationships and enables you to expand your frieght service.
17:53:33 <Katje> passengers work very very well,
17:53:36 <Katje> but just like real life
17:53:44 <Katje> they want to get to their destination quickly
17:53:49 <Katje> and they want to go along way
17:54:33 <Katje> in short: buses suck, trains rock
17:54:39 <xiong> Vehicles have a bad habit of going down dead-end streets for no good reason. Should I add blocking sections (one way both way)?
17:55:06 <Katje> they don't do a 3 point turn in the middle of the road
17:57:16 <xiong> I may be confused about the way that the dead-end stations dead-end.
17:57:33 <xiong> Surely, a bus can turn around in a dead-end station.
17:59:06 <xiong> My bus drives right past the station, without going in. I think I have it turned wrong way.
18:03:10 <xiong> Interesting! I just saw a bus overtake a truck.
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18:23:54 <ccfreak2k> What is a bus but a truck full of people?
18:24:12 <Katje> ccfreak2k: where you from ?
18:27:38 <xiong> Ah. I see the issue with the dead-end bus stations. It's not obvious to me which side is the entry. Depending on the topography, I can't see clearly if the through road joins up into the driveway. There's no way to rotate the board, is there?
18:29:09 <Alberth> it has a bus driver demanding money from the cargo
18:29:54 <Alberth> xiong: no, but there is 'x' and CTL+x for setting the transparancies
18:30:22 <xiong> I've tried the transparencies, thanks.
18:30:48 <xiong> The orientation issue isn't a big deal but it's tough for the newcomer.
18:31:55 <xiong> You see a choice of 4 but depots, for example. 2 of them have the entry facing away. Which do you use on a given street? You have to infer from the other 2, where the entry faces you.
18:43:53 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20912 /trunk/src/newgrf_industries.cpp: -Fix [FS#4157]: NEW_INDUSTRYOFFSET != NEW_INDUSTRYTILEOFFSET.
18:46:34 <frosch123> easy reproducible, easy fixable :)
19:11:26 <Chris_Booth> where are you planetmaker if its morning?
19:11:56 <planetmaker> you mistake my greeting for being specific for a particular time of day. :-)
19:12:06 <planetmaker> You're forgiven. Many do that mistake ;-)
19:12:20 <planetmaker> (even people who speak my language)
19:12:34 <Chris_Booth> i thought you meant morning
19:12:44 <planetmaker> no typo there ;-)
19:12:52 <planetmaker> Just the regionally used greeting w/o translation
19:13:28 <Chris_Booth> next time I join then I will have to yell Hollar
19:19:32 <Chris_Booth> planetmaker: I want to ask you something about AP+
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19:20:58 <Chris_Booth> well I need to boot my VM
19:21:07 <Chris_Booth> before I can get my error
19:21:31 <Chris_Booth> and in that time pm can decide if he wants to help me or not
19:21:39 <planetmaker> Chris_Booth: I can't
19:21:48 <planetmaker> before I know any question
19:21:59 <planetmaker> (which is exactly the rule)
19:22:07 <planetmaker> and why it is useful
19:22:11 <Alberth> planetmaker: this is just 'willing', not 'be able to' :)
19:22:44 <planetmaker> Alberth: but... 'willing' might also depend on the question
19:22:51 <planetmaker> I might be able to help in many things.
19:23:00 <Alberth> yeah, then it gets tricky :)
19:23:02 <planetmaker> But some might just (for me) be WAY too much work on my part
19:23:51 <Chris_Booth> ok planetmaker I am running AP+ in suse with openttd 1.0.4
19:23:52 <planetmaker> I'm both able to answer a simple yes/no question as (help) building a house.
19:23:58 <planetmaker> I'll probably decline the latter ;-)
19:24:02 <Chris_Booth> I followed the instructions to the word
19:24:34 <Chris_Booth> but when I run ./autopilot.tcl I get and error about line 77
19:24:57 <Chris_Booth> config file openttd.cfg has no autopilotsection
19:25:55 <Chris_Booth> well that is my question
19:26:03 <Chris_Booth> where would I put an AP section?
19:26:20 <planetmaker> doesn't matter. I'd put it in the end
19:26:42 <planetmaker> and then copy c to openttd.cfg
19:27:32 <Chris_Booth> can i copy it from the example cfg?
19:29:41 <planetmaker> you might need to adjust a few things to your config
19:37:41 <Priski> that one is alive in picture, and it's a viper
19:39:31 <avdg> snakes can only life on places where its hot
19:40:25 <Priski> well that is only poisonous snake that appears in finland
19:40:40 <Priski> in summer they are everywhere
19:40:43 <planetmaker> Chris_Booth: any success?
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19:43:17 <avdg> priski: maybe wikipedia helps you
19:45:11 <avdg> hehe, how would a snake survive there
19:45:33 <Priski> they crawl deep undeground and go into hybernation
19:46:28 <Priski> life just stops in winter, but does not go away
20:24:23 <xiong> Ha ha, this is serious, isn't it? Mistake to call it a game. I just found out that I can't handwave off the siding issue. Either I put in sidings and signals or I need two tracks all the way from town to town.
20:25:16 <xiong> What with the grading issue -- hills in the way, not to mention the need to demolish an odd farm or two, rail routes can be expensive.
20:25:55 <xiong> Alberth, Must be another US-UK translation issue. What do you call them? Runarounds? Bypasses?
20:26:28 <Alberth> a piece of double track, you mean? bypass seems fine
20:26:33 <xiong> It used to be common to connect low-traffic towns with single track lines.
20:26:35 <andythenorth_> UK is mostly double track, or lightly used single traffic
20:26:40 <andythenorth_> we don't have meets
20:27:22 <Alberth> it is much cheaper to lay your tracks around the farms rather than right thrugh them :p
20:27:43 <xiong> So oncoming trains can pass one another, you put a siding every several miles -- a section of double track with turnouts at each end. A siding can also lead to a loading platform.
20:27:48 <Alberth> you can make a one-way circle through several towns
20:29:01 <xiong> Oh, I'll build double track now. Live and learn. As I said, this is a serious game; no handwaving.
20:29:02 <planetmaker> ^ that can be a quite efficient means to organize things
20:29:24 <planetmaker> it's meant to be fun ;-)
20:29:39 <xiong> It's not possible to do anything while time is stopped, is it?
20:30:07 <Alberth> it is, just not construction (unless you cheat)
20:30:12 <planetmaker> xiong: yes. cheat 'build in pause'
20:30:51 <andythenorth_> xiong: if you have the right map, single-track railroading is a fun challenge
20:30:56 <xiong> Dunno why that should be considered a cheat. Most of construction time is spent fiddling with the interface and the mouse; it's not 'real time'.
20:31:15 <avdg> its considered as a cheat against ai
20:31:17 <planetmaker> xiong: you cheat you fellow players
20:31:22 <xiong> In fact, actual construction seems instant.
20:31:26 <Chris_Booth> it would be lees of a cheat if there was a planing mode
20:31:39 <Chris_Booth> then it took 5 - 10 years to build your track
20:31:43 <planetmaker> it would be the same cheat as the AI could do nothing
20:31:58 <planetmaker> thus you'd be given infinitely more time than your opponents
20:32:14 <xiong> It would make more sense to me if I could plan out some construction while paused and then it took 'real time' to complete the building of it.
20:32:33 <Chris_Booth> xiong: planing takes time
20:32:40 <Chris_Booth> often it takes more time than building
20:32:50 <Chris_Booth> so planing could take 20 years
20:33:04 <planetmaker> xiong: but then the AIs would need the same authority
20:33:05 <xiong> It's not comparable. A quibble.
20:33:23 <xiong> Well, why not give AI the same benefit?
20:33:24 <planetmaker> AI cannot do more or less than you
20:33:40 <planetmaker> And I'd be seriously annoyed if an AI decided to halt the game
20:33:48 <planetmaker> Consider that with 14 competitors
20:33:52 <planetmaker> You'd never run the game
20:34:03 <planetmaker> Or consider the same thing in true multiplayer
20:34:16 <Chris_Booth> it would be like openttdcoop planing but a million times worse
20:34:17 <xiong> Real-world planning goes on continuously, simultaneously with operations and actual construction.
20:34:17 <planetmaker> I'd not play with / against you, if you paused it at your free leasure
20:34:39 <planetmaker> thus time is also not paused
20:34:47 <andythenorth_> I made one ship in FISH a little faster for variety
20:34:51 <andythenorth_> guess which one I use most :P
20:35:01 <xiong> But as a practical matter, I'm only one person and it takes me time to get around the interface.
20:35:08 <planetmaker> hehe @ andythenorth_
20:35:49 <planetmaker> xiong: yes, but OpenTTD is (also) a MP game. Such constructing while paused is a cheat
20:36:14 <xiong> I don't play MP games. I'm old and I have got no speed in me.
20:36:44 <Chris_Booth> xiong: mp is slow on some servers
20:37:00 <xiong> Last time I played anything MP, it was StarCraft. Kids were building dozens of swarms while I was still getting my fingers on the buttons.
20:37:32 <Chris_Booth> some mp games go on for 1000s of years
20:37:33 <planetmaker> xiong: MP in OpenTTD needs not be really competitive, you know ;-)
20:37:34 <xiong> Even locally, I play mostly turn-based games and put a lot of thought into each turn.
20:37:57 <xiong> That's just me, I don't want to start a debate about this.
20:38:12 <Chris_Booth> a game with a plan is a great idea
20:38:17 <Chris_Booth> I always use plans
20:38:54 <planetmaker> xiong: as in: people propose a network design with a small scetch, then vote on the best proposal. Then jointly build that
20:38:54 <Chris_Booth> yes draw your self a plan on paper of in game of what your end network will be
20:39:09 <planetmaker> that's how we play coop
20:39:13 <Chris_Booth> planetmaker: that is a coop plan
20:39:21 <xiong> Well, if the game is constantly running, then there's even less time for drawing on paper.
20:39:28 <Chris_Booth> I have plans on my own games but that are more detailed and extreme
20:39:52 <planetmaker> xiong: depends. We don't start building before a we haven't decided on one of the propsoed plans
20:39:53 <Chris_Booth> use the pause button?
20:40:21 <planetmaker> and you have about one or two real time days to devise a good plan for a map ;-)
20:40:48 <xiong> Okay, well, obviously you have an approach that suits. I'm very new and for me, all I want to do is get something running. Took me a couple hours just to get one working bus line.
20:41:44 <xiong> By the time I get a decent double-track line from one town to another, properly graded and signaled, I suspect the bank interest will bankrupt me.
20:41:46 <Chris_Booth> I was the same way today with simutrans until I decided the game was rubish
20:42:27 <xiong> Perhaps later, when I get familiar with the game, I'll turn off the cheat.
20:42:28 <Chris_Booth> xiong: a good way to make money fast is with planes from one side of the map to the other
20:42:44 <planetmaker> coal has the best revenue
20:42:46 <Chris_Booth> or give you self 10,000,000 to start with
20:42:53 <planetmaker> and not short route but rather one long
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20:57:40 <xiong> "Playing with virtual toy trains can be quite addictive, so remember to get some sleep." -- I'm going to take that good advice, and a nap.
20:58:40 <Alberth> otherwise you have to stay awake for a very long time :p
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