IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-09-21
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02:52:10 * SmatZ shouldn't watch online TV when he should sleep
03:04:52 * SmatZ just found his program was working just due to pure luck
03:05:51 <SmatZ> close(fd1) ... fd2 = open(...) ... read(fd1 ... )
03:06:02 <SmatZ> by luck, fd2 was the same as fd1 :p
03:06:39 <SmatZ> copy&paste is often cause of program bugs :p
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06:32:48 <Terkhen> it's quite sunny here
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09:13:49 <planetmaker> I must not answer. It would become an impolite one...
09:15:18 <Eddi|zuHause> let me try to hack your internet connection :)
09:16:41 <planetmaker> nearly irrespective of my port configuration you'll have not much luck on most ports ;-)
09:16:51 <planetmaker> the firewall is quite strict here...
09:17:51 <planetmaker> plus it's using a bit security by obscurity, allowing certain services only at non-standard ports...
09:18:08 <planetmaker> which granted, keeps the logs small
09:22:20 <planetmaker> where certain is everything where a connection can be established from the outside ;-)
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09:44:54 <norbert79> How are you all this morning?
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09:54:15 <__ln__> yes, no more occasional hungarian talk on the channel
09:55:28 <norbert79> Did I miss something while I wasn't online? :)
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09:56:16 <__ln__> while you weren't online ~4..6 years ago
09:57:39 <norbert79> Yeah, time passes fast...
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13:17:02 <avdg> poor twitter, too sensitive for xss :/
13:17:31 <avdg> keep that page open for few minutes
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13:22:10 * robotboy pokes his head in before going upstairs
13:24:51 <fjb> Does mercurial hahe something like the classical repository check out?
13:26:24 <fjb> That clones the whole repository if I am not mistaken.
13:27:15 <Ammler> fjb: on the webif, you might find a tar.gz download link
13:28:39 <heffer> is it because of the grfcodec/nforenum merger that grfcodec nightly currently doesn't build?
13:29:11 <Ammler> works here, any error?
13:29:56 <dihedral> clone only the specified revisions and ancestors
13:30:14 <fjb> Ammler: Thank you, there is such a link.
13:30:18 <Ammler> dihedral: that is still the whole repo :-)
13:30:33 <dihedral> oh - true - i was thinking the other way round
13:30:51 <dihedral> e.g. git has a way to only make a shallow clone
13:32:22 <Ammler> heffer: what boost version?
13:32:38 <heffer> Ammler: boost-1.41.0-9.fc13.x86_64
13:32:47 <glx> heffer: did nforenum alone build fine before the merge ?
13:33:33 <glx> then check the -D differences :)
13:34:29 <glx> for mingw nforenum alone was ok, but in the merge a -DMINGW was added causing compile failure
13:38:05 <glx> heffer: looks like a missing -D in your case
13:43:52 <glx> hmm src/typesize.h was there before the merge
13:46:24 <glx> maybe try to find the breaking rev
13:48:19 <glx> FLAGS = -O2 -D$(TYPESIZE) -idirafter$(BOOST_INCLUDE) -D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2 <-- before the merge
13:48:23 <heffer> okay it's an error within the sepec file
13:48:44 <heffer> i define CXXFLAGS in Makefile.local
13:49:28 <heffer> i manually needed to add -DGCC32 to the CXXFLAGS
13:50:06 <glx> CXXFLAGS := $(FLAGS) $(CXXFLAGS) <-- you should not need to add it yourself
13:51:03 <glx> -include ${MAKEFILELOCAL} <-- looks like this one is not at the right place
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13:58:01 <glx> but not optimal as some Makefile.local settings will still be ignored (like TYPESIZE)
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14:48:47 <Rubidium> regarding that grfcodec issue; I think a good review/"rebuild" of the detection part of makefile needs to be done. For example I remember that there was some assignment in make that does only assign when it's not assigned yet. That'd be the perfect thing to use, and then Makefile.local can be included at the top of the file without problems I'd say
14:49:26 <Rubidium> but... that needs some time to properly implement and test that
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14:51:25 <thomas001> hi, has the 2cc trainset been removed from bananas?
14:51:41 <Rubidium> not that I'm aware of
14:51:55 <planetmaker> Rubidium, x ?= blubber
14:51:57 <Rubidium> might be that a newer version has been uploaded that requires some higher version of OpenTTD though
14:52:37 <Rubidium> and each upload supersedes the previous, so the previous one won't be shown for you. There is a feature request about that in the bug tracker though
14:52:38 <thomas001> i run 1.0.4 i see it on the bananas web page but not in py openttd
14:53:12 <Lakie> Probably needs a newer version of openttd like a nightly?
14:53:24 <thomas001> hmm i'll try that ;)
14:53:54 <Rubidium> @base 10 16 285232972
14:54:23 <Rubidium> it needs at least r20300 of trunk (or 1.1.0 and higher)
14:54:51 <thomas001> right....its available in the nightly...thank you...what shiny new features might be in nightly the trainset uses?
14:55:24 <Rubidium> = translated descriptions and easier to configure NewGRF parameters
15:06:27 <thomas001> btw...what are your favourite train sets?
15:06:56 <Belugas> legos are fine, especially the CITY passenger one :)
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15:18:45 <Ammler> well, I hope djn had other reasons then just a14 to exclude the stable players :-)
15:18:45 <Chris_Booth> just a quick question, is openttd ever going to get custom bridge heads, and is openttd ever going to allow you to build rail over tunnels?
15:21:06 <Rubidium> sorry, can't prove that using temporal logic
15:21:35 <Chris_Booth> robotboy: its only 16:21 early night :P
15:22:22 <Chris_Booth> I should not have said something stupid like that here
15:23:07 <Rubidium> oh, and for fun... it's 21:08 as well
15:24:14 <Chris_Booth> Rubidium: dont you mean 21:09?
15:24:18 <Rubidium> Chris_Booth: in any case, there are no reasons to not allow any implementation of cbh or rail over tunnels, but either the implementation was very broken or there was no implementation
15:24:58 <Chris_Booth> ooh so it needs to be written and tested before it is ever added
15:25:47 <Chris_Booth> darn it I forgot to ask the can I ask a question; question
15:26:18 <Rubidium> nah... writing it is not needed. Just generate random data and eventually you'll get a proper patch. It'll most likely require quite a bit of testing
15:26:52 <Chris_Booth> you also need all the spirtes
15:27:51 <Rubidium> those can also be patched
15:28:17 <Rubidium> just makes it significantly more unlikely that you'll get it "soon"
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17:46:03 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r20834 /trunk/src/lang/ (11 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
17:46:03 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:46:03 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: croatian - 3 changes by VoyagerOne
17:46:03 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: dutch - 3 changes by habell
17:46:03 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: french - 3 changes by glx
17:46:05 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: german - 3 changes by planetmaker
17:46:05 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: italian - 3 changes by lorenzodv
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18:30:17 <ack> i want to add diamond mines and cargo to the temperate climate. can i do this by making a newgrf?
18:31:05 <Eddi|zuHause> it should be fairly straightforward even
18:31:20 <Eddi|zuHause> take the "manual industries" grf as example
18:31:37 <Ammler> or the nml forest someone made
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18:40:08 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: that is really a bad example for that :)
18:45:03 <Eddi|zuHause> bad examples are the best ones to learn how to not do it from :p
18:46:02 <Ammler> for plain nfo, a good example is my lumber mill
18:47:01 <frosch123> well, it is easier if you start with a diamond mine which produces valueables
18:47:10 <frosch123> instead of adding diamonds to temperate
18:48:21 <Ammler> indeed, didn't thought about the cargo, dunno, if nml can handle that already
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19:37:53 <fonsinchen> Could you build cargodist on a regular basis on the compile farm and push it to the OpenTTDCoop server?
19:37:59 <Rubidium> heffer: does current grfcodec(-trunk) behave better?
19:39:01 <Rubidium> fonsinchen: what's the new URL?
19:39:29 <fonsinchen> either git://github.com/fonsinchen/openttd-cargodist.git
19:39:59 <Rubidium> should be binaries still be called openttd-cargodist-<gitrev>-...? I seem to remember you changing something to the version string
19:40:34 <fonsinchen> No, that change is obsolete now as the underlying problem has been fixed.
19:40:49 <Ammler> s/OpenTTDCoop/#openttdcoop/ :-)
19:40:49 <fonsinchen> you can just call them like this.
19:42:08 <Rubidium> does 06:00 CE[S]T sound okay?
19:47:14 <Rubidium> yikes, cloning the git repository seems to take quite a while
19:48:02 <fonsinchen> yes, it's big. You should use the git protocol if possible.
19:48:09 <Rubidium> (especially because it clones it every time)
19:48:33 <Ammler> pm, to the fresh vm, I would assume :-)
19:49:34 <Ammler> Rubidium: there is hg-git, maybe faster :-)
19:50:38 <planetmaker> questionable whether that'd be fun with the version then
19:51:58 <Rubidium> lets see whether --depth 100 does reduce it somewhat :)
19:54:46 <Rubidium> heh, that still has an awful load of history :)
19:56:32 <Rubidium> --depth seems to be reasonable; enough history to fetch the svn revision and pretty quick to checkout
19:58:22 <Rubidium> I hope it "just" doesn't break in the future though
20:01:53 <dihedral> Rubidium, would it make sense to add another (hidden) version field which gets also written to the save game - one that cannot be overridden by --revision, and doe snot influence the game?
20:02:23 <dihedral> then one could still be able to find out easily if a crash happened on a modified server ^^
20:02:50 <dihedral> perhaps allow the crash.log to store server name ?
20:03:06 <frosch123> securiy by obscurity in open source?
20:05:21 <dihedral> no, more a case of finding out if bug reports came from patched servers :-P
20:05:34 <frosch123> we should add a complete copy of the home directory to crash.sav
20:05:54 <Rubidium> dihedral: and you think that works?
20:06:34 <dihedral> in 90% of the bug reports perhaps :-P
20:06:37 <Rubidium> because it needs to be passed from findversion.sh, and if they modify that they modify both revisions making it utterly pointless
20:07:05 <dihedral> however those i know use ./configure --revision ;-)
20:08:40 <dihedral> people like openttdcoop
20:11:02 <Ammler> yes, that is required, configure is bad
20:11:21 <Ammler> as you would have another version from the CF then ingame
20:12:44 <dihedral> it was worth the try
20:13:41 <Ammler> dihedral: also Rubidium is aware of it, btw. :-)
20:14:04 <dihedral> yes, but i was hoping for a more globally something ;-)
20:14:09 <dihedral> not just in case of openttdcoop
20:14:33 <Ammler> yes, 32bpp-ez does use it too
20:14:58 <frosch123> isn't the avarage modified build not using a vcs at all, but just messing with the stable tarball?
20:15:39 <Ammler> the patch Rubidium posted is quite obsolete
20:16:55 <dihedral> frosch123, that is frighening
20:17:21 <Ammler> but cd shouldn't change first field :-)
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20:18:03 <__ln__> Can the travelling salesman's problem be solved in O(n) using a NewGRF?
20:19:01 <Ammler> important is that 4th field is the same as ingame version
20:20:13 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: depends on the definition of n :p
20:24:04 <Ammler> aslo a bit silly about findversion is that you can add tons of patches to a repo and it reports it as not modified
20:24:44 * Belugas kicks himself. copy and paste have made yet another victim :S
20:24:56 <Rubidium> Ammler: so 32bpp-ez is a "modified" version of 32bpp-ez?
20:25:18 <Belugas> a nice copy and paste error, spreading a bug in a 100 stores deployment :(
20:25:44 <frosch123> Belugas: wire those keys between the powerjack and your chair
20:26:13 <Ammler> Rubidium: well, that requires you don't force the version
20:27:05 <Ammler> that is fine for cd, but not for client or server patches or 32bpp
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20:27:53 <Ammler> maybe a 2nd version for network would be good
20:28:47 <Rubidium> but... then cargodist would say it's compatible with some trunk revision?
20:29:10 <Belugas> frosch123, already done :(
20:29:11 <Ammler> hmm, you didn't read, I said it is ok for cd :-P
20:29:46 <Rubidium> Ammler: but if you change findversion.sh, you change it for cargodist as well!
20:30:15 <Ammler> I wouldn't, except the 4th, if it doesn't match the ingame version
20:30:47 * Rubidium declares a desync error has occured
20:30:47 <Ammler> my patch is as the name says though for MP
20:31:56 <planetmaker> salut swimmer of the oceans
20:34:19 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20835 /trunk/src/group_gui.cpp: -Fix: the group gui had a small unused area with bigger gui buttons
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20:39:40 <Ammler> fonsinchen: you might also test, if the WindowsUpdater from still works
20:40:10 <Ammler> I guess, he does truncate the cd-, not sure
20:40:26 <Belugas> let say that I prefer the marine representation of myself :)
20:41:02 <Ammler> but that desyncs with forums :-P
20:41:26 <frosch123> are mermaids involved?
20:42:01 <planetmaker> the only mermaid I know is... in Kopenhagen.
20:43:58 <Belugas> well... let see... i talk a lot, belugas are the dolphins who emit the most. they are pale white, as i am. they have a thick skin due to a lot of fat. Unfortunately, so do I, even if i'm getting better. they love to swim and dive. Me? DUUUHH!!!!! They love sea food. me? DUUUUUH!!!
20:45:08 * SmatZ doesn't think Belugas is fat
20:45:43 <Rubidium> SmatZ: then what is fat? :)
20:45:53 <Belugas> not really fat... let say.. in shape :)
20:46:45 <Belugas> let say... 6 foot 1 tall (not tall when compared to the average openttd dev...) and 190 pounds
20:46:52 <Belugas> not very bony either....
20:47:11 <fonsinchen> What windowsupdater?
20:47:27 <SmatZ> 6 ft 1 in = 1.8542 meters
20:47:34 <Rubidium> planetmaker: is a BMI of 23 "fat"?
20:47:53 <SmatZ> 190 pounds = 86.1825503 kilograms
20:47:56 <frosch123> 23 is almost skinny
20:48:10 <planetmaker> Rubidium, I don't even know what the scale is the BMI measures against ;-)
20:48:10 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: 25.1278305332
20:48:15 <planetmaker> And ... I don't really care
20:48:23 <Rubidium> 23 is overweight in e.g. Japan and Singapore
20:48:36 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: 29.0547520661
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20:48:50 <frosch123> planetmaker: that scale which i can interpret as "i am not too fat, i am too young" :)
20:48:55 <Belugas> i'm in better shape then i tough :)
20:49:15 <Rubidium> SmatZ: then you're obese in Singapore and Japan, and only overweight in the rest of the world :)
20:49:43 <Belugas> and normal in the states
20:49:46 <frosch123> @calc 105/(1.94**2)
20:49:46 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 27.8988202785
20:50:11 <SmatZ> frosch123: you are pretty high :)
20:51:00 <Yexo> <frosch123> 23 is almost skinny <- if 23 is skinny, what is 19?
20:51:03 <frosch123> hmm, i thought i was at 26.5 or so
20:52:05 <frosch123> hmm, oh i think i uses some tabular last time, no computation, so that may have used some different formula
20:52:07 <Rubidium> frosch123: then you were "normal" up to 1998, and overweight since then
20:52:28 <frosch123> it also distinguished men and women
20:52:56 <SmatZ> similiar problem is with high blood pressure, the criteria has lowered from 160(?)/90 to 140/90
20:53:04 <frosch123> which resulted in "i am almost fat for < 30" and "normal to skinny for > 30"
20:53:33 <frosch123> SmatZ: the lower value has always been considered more imporant
20:53:35 <SmatZ> I always say I have heavy bones :p
20:54:28 <frosch123> yes, smatz has the bones of a bird, though he filled the air with beer reservoirs
20:54:55 <SmatZ> reminds me of something in the fridge...
20:55:18 <Rubidium> my atoms are just heavier than normal :)
20:55:26 * SmatZ noms fine beer for ~0.25E/0,5l
20:57:36 <frosch123> [22:52] <Rubidium> frosch123: then you were "normal" up to 1998, and overweight since then <- no, around 98 i looked more like yexo
20:58:39 <SmatZ> frosch123: so did I, I got ~65kg 8 years ago...
20:58:42 <frosch123> he, around 96 i was one of the best at sports in school :p (since i was about 30cm taller than the rest)
20:58:47 <SmatZ> only my belly has grown since then :/
20:59:05 <SmatZ> I was a good runner, too...
21:00:32 * Rubidium dislikes running; I rather take a bike
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21:00:46 <frosch123> well, around 2003 i was one of the best at sports again, but that was due to about 80% were smoking :p
21:03:12 <Rubidium> only problem with cheap bikes is that I'm (sometimes) peddling with too much force, so stuff breaks/snaps
21:03:31 <Rubidium> high gear, not that much revolutions
21:03:47 <apollo30> cool - I've just found the irc channel on your homepage and half of all developers are here ;-)
21:03:52 <dihedral> \o/ a fellow arcor customer
21:04:58 <apollo30> much cooler is, that I finally managed to access IRC chats with my mac. my last IRC chat was more about 5 years ago on a win pc
21:05:05 <planetmaker> apollo30, they're here 24/7 ;-) - or pretend to be ;-)
21:05:10 <SmatZ> hmm... at each iteration, I write 1 line to each of two files... how is that possible each file has different number of lines when the program ended normally :p
21:05:41 <Rubidium> writing stuff with \n?
21:06:01 <SmatZ> Rubidium: it shouldn't happen, but probably does :)
21:06:17 <SmatZ> planetmaker: that shouldn't affect how files are read later
21:06:22 <Rubidium> or are you running the same app in multiple processes?
21:06:35 <SmatZ> Rubidium: nope, just 1 process
21:07:04 <Rubidium> oh... 2 other possibilities: memory corruption and hdd corruption
21:07:21 <SmatZ> it's quite reproducible :)
21:12:03 <Belugas> ok... see you ... night
21:13:33 <apollo30> wish you also a good night
21:24:44 <planetmaker> nighty nigh, Belugas
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