IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-09-19
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00:03:05 <TruePikachu> I put a thread up on the forums
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00:46:21 <TruePikachu> Wireless adapter became unavailible for some reason...
00:46:50 <TruePikachu> Anyway, which do you use inside cities for like a metro service: HSLC or LSHC?
00:48:36 <TruePikachu> * High speed low cap or low speed high cap
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01:01:23 <SmatZ> mmm forums are backuping :(
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02:16:38 <Pikka> Why isn't my action 14 working? :[
02:16:53 <Pikka> tell me, oh holders of the crystal ball
02:54:00 <Pikka> it wasn't that my action 14 wasn't working so much as my grfcodec wasn't working so it wasn't updating the grf <_<;
02:55:08 <Pikka> also, many of the examples on the wiki page have one too many 00s it appears...
03:04:12 <Pikka> anyway, I worked it out :)
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06:24:48 <Yrol_Denjeah> How can i slow down the game?
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06:38:15 <planetmaker> no way to slow down the game there
06:40:38 <Yrol_Denjeah> planetmaker: moinmoin, not at all? Not even if i recompile?
06:41:10 <planetmaker> if you can programme, yes. Search for the day length patch
06:41:32 <Yrol_Denjeah> oh, there is a grf aalready?
06:41:33 <planetmaker> but those savegames might not compatible anymore with normal
06:41:43 <planetmaker> that's not possible via grf
06:42:16 <Yrol_Denjeah> so the patch i hae to weave into the source, yes?
06:47:00 <planetmaker> there are as far as I know only source code patches around, yes
06:47:13 <planetmaker> binary patches make little sense for open source games
06:48:46 <Yrol_Denjeah> °bows deeply° my apologies oh master, i shall remove my stinking stupid self then from your sight for i am not worthy
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06:55:59 <ccfreak2k> I was thinking "lower the CPU clock".
06:56:38 <planetmaker> but that doesn't help. Unless you lower it so much that it lags. which is uncomfortable for the input ;-)
06:57:22 <planetmaker> I just wonder whether I've been that condescending to warrent his last sentence...
06:57:24 <ccfreak2k> Hey, you gotta make sacrifices.
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09:24:24 <Zuu> Good morning planetmaker, Alberth & Geck
09:24:57 <Zuu> my bad, sorry for highlighting you.
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09:35:47 <planetmaker> good to know. I guess we can then ship the current repo as 0.3.1
09:36:57 <planetmaker> you did need an option to (not) install license and changelog, too, right?
09:37:38 <heffer> rpm installs all the docs for us
09:38:00 <heffer> i define what files in the tarball are docs and rpm will install them automatically
09:38:21 <heffer> reason being: by that you are able to install pkgs without docs
09:39:19 <planetmaker> did you test current grfcodec / nforenum? I have a patch for the makefile which basically ports that behaviour
09:39:36 <planetmaker> DO_NOT_INSTALL_DOCS|LICENSE|CHANGELOG
09:39:45 <planetmaker> you can specify each separately
09:40:04 <planetmaker> controlling the installation of readme/license/changelog into DOCDIR
09:40:14 <heffer> planetmaker: not yet. i'm planning to update the complete openttd stack very soon
09:40:35 <heffer> at the moment i'm at FUDCon (which is Fedora Users and Developers Conference) in Zürich
09:41:28 <planetmaker> TomyLobo: no. That doesn't need shipping with OpenTTD. Base sets
09:42:23 <planetmaker> heffer: I guess I can then present you 0.3.1 in the next days, maybe today
09:42:53 <TomyLobo> oh wait, firs is at 0.4.0 now :D
09:43:01 <heffer> planetmaker: that's great news :) i will then include that into my stack update and skip 0.3.0
09:47:44 <planetmaker> btw, heffer, it seems you didn't use a nightly grfcodec / nforenum. Older ones will give you warnings... there are new GUI sprites old versions don't yet know of
09:48:00 <planetmaker> it's not fatal and has no real impact... but you might wonder ;-)
09:48:27 <heffer> planetmaker: okay. so should i include nightly grfcodec/nforenum in my stack update then?
09:48:45 <planetmaker> yes... or lobby with Rubidium to make a release there, too :-)
09:49:02 <heffer> i was using nforenum 4.0.0 and grfcodec 1.0.0
09:49:15 <planetmaker> yes. Since then OpenTTD got new GUI sprites.
09:49:34 <planetmaker> which needs an update to nforenum to not warn about additional sprites
09:49:59 <planetmaker> which in turn OpenGFX supplies :-)
09:50:05 <heffer> okay. i'll keep that in mind :)
09:57:38 <planetmaker> :-) as both are not really needed for OpenTTD development it would not really be an sdk for OpenTTD. Maybe for NewGRFs. But there I still hope for the yet-not-released NML to become the new standard ;-)
09:59:04 * andythenorth considers adding an industry to process metal from forge in early games
10:00:08 <planetmaker> called blacksmith? ;-)
10:00:33 * andythenorth considers having some forges produce goods and ENSP, and other produce building materials and FMSP
10:00:54 <planetmaker> hm... random varaction2?
10:01:24 <andythenorth> it can be done on industry creation
10:01:26 <andythenorth> every time it's discussed, we agree it would be annoying
10:02:12 <planetmaker> then the minimap would become useless
10:02:34 <andythenorth> might trouble the cargo chain gui as well
10:02:41 <planetmaker> or loose much of its value except 'there's an industry. No idea what it does, though'
10:03:00 <planetmaker> and you don't want to annoy Alberth ? ;-)
10:04:55 * andythenorth wonders where to get spades from in 1600
10:05:02 <andythenorth> not that I actually want to play in 1600
10:06:46 <planetmaker> 'openttd is a train game. carriages have no place there' :-P
10:10:23 <andythenorth> currently I'm not sure where FIRS players would get their shovels for digging :P
10:14:49 <planetmaker> blacksmith provides tools, too, does he?
10:21:52 <andythenorth> planetmaker: blacksmith provides FMSP and goods currently
10:22:33 <andythenorth> could change goods to ENSP
10:23:13 <planetmaker> except if there's a lack of goods
10:23:15 <uros> hi , can someone know why i have all original trains and cariages duplicated? .. i used 8 Japam GRF-s (town names, trees, building set, landscape, meglev set, signals, stations and train set) ?
10:23:32 <planetmaker> yes, you probably added and removed newgrfs on a running game
10:23:37 <planetmaker> and ignored the red warning box
10:24:15 <planetmaker> and chose the grfs you want to use _before_ creating the map
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10:25:07 <planetmaker> you *could* try to call 'reset_engines' in the console
10:25:49 <andythenorth> planetmaker: goods are available from glass works for all dates
10:25:58 <andythenorth> and from paper mill
10:26:02 <andythenorth> and (if added) from pottery
10:26:12 <planetmaker> no need for more goods
10:26:27 <planetmaker> and someone has to produce ploughs and hay forks and hammers and ...
10:26:52 <planetmaker> besides I like much agriculture ;-)
10:27:07 <planetmaker> Might be that I'm influenced by my family's heredity, though
10:37:41 <planetmaker> moin Rubidium , fjb
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10:38:54 <__ln__> does anyone have a Kindle?
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11:17:13 <heffer> planetmaker: didn't know you were german, too :D
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11:24:16 <Powerek38> hi! my OpenTTD just after a few years of gameplay is getting much slower than the rest of my computer, even the mouse gets slower to move
11:24:47 <planetmaker> Powerek38: do you have many vehicles? NewGRFs?
11:25:04 <planetmaker> many boats and few buoys?
11:25:33 <Powerek38> planetmaker: yeah, I have quite a lot newGRF, but no boats and not much vehicles as it's just 1923 in the game and I started in 1920
11:27:19 <planetmaker> Powerek38: depending upon the newgrf they can eat quite a bit CPU under certain conditions. Especially if you have the ECS vectors and HUGE maps (>1000x1000)
11:28:04 <Powerek38> oh, that may be the problem, I do use ECS and my map is like 1024 x 2048
11:28:31 <Powerek38> ok, I'll turnoff the ECS, I hope this helps
11:28:35 <planetmaker> maybe you can post your savegame?
11:28:43 <planetmaker> but don't turn of ECS in your game. You'll ruin it
11:28:57 <Powerek38> planetmaker: no, I meant I'll run a new game without it
11:29:38 <Alberth> Powerek38: 1024x2048 looks big for single player
11:30:51 <Powerek38> ok, so I'll run a new game with no ECS and not bigger than 1024x1024. I hope this helps
11:30:58 <Powerek38> thanks for your advice :)
11:31:08 <planetmaker> no problem, you're welcome
11:31:20 <planetmaker> From our servers I just know...
11:31:27 <planetmaker> nvm obviously ;-)
11:31:48 <Alberth> too addicted, obviously
11:32:16 <planetmaker> he could test it on our current stable server... 1900 and FIRS
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11:50:57 <Chris_Booth> wow I have a massive hangover
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12:12:37 <Ammler> for sp, a 256er map is already big enough :-)
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12:48:23 <fjb> 1900 and FIRS? Should I consinder joining the server?
12:50:05 <planetmaker> fjb: why not? :-) It's 'only' FIRS 0.3 as it's a stable version. But still...
13:06:00 <fjb> Do spectators get kicked or is my connection not stable enough?
13:12:14 <planetmaker> it's your connection
13:12:26 <planetmaker> I'm fine with watching and I don't have priviliges there
13:15:53 * robotboy ponders going looking for a win32s api list
13:16:20 <__ln__> you want to run openttd on windows 3.11 for some specific reason?
13:16:58 <robotboy> no. I thought it's be interesting to see if OpenTTD could run under that platform without using the DOS version
13:27:08 <fjb> Does really anybody still use Windows 3?
13:28:12 <robotboy> Qantas was until a hyear or so ago for their in-flight entertainment systems. There were a few other airlines using it as well
13:28:24 <Eddi|zuHause> i have a windows 3.11 installation in dosbox
13:29:05 <LaSeandre> sorry, what OS are we discussing here? Early Windows?
13:31:23 <LaSeandre> That's 2000, if we're being strict?
13:31:48 <__ln__> we aren't being strict
13:32:32 <LaSeandre> ah, but are we going back through the NT line or the DOS line?
13:36:12 * robotboy wonders if it is the threading that fails
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13:39:53 <robotboy> finding out why it fails would require an ancient sdk
13:40:38 <Eddi|zuHause> you can compile without threads
13:41:14 <robotboy> can I compile for Win9x using Visual Studio?
13:52:06 <glx> but with mingw you should be able to disable threads
13:55:05 <robotboy> if I ever get mingw setup, I will try it
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14:17:33 <andythenorth> so the first instance of CheckIfCallBackAllowsAvailability should also check that industry is being generated by game, not player
14:17:49 <andythenorth> then CheckIfCallBackAllowsAvailability needs to be called again in both prospecting and none-prospecting loops?
14:18:51 <frosch123> there is a loop in CmdBuildIndustry when manually placing industries
14:18:58 <frosch123> currently it only does the tilechecks
14:19:26 <frosch123> make sure to also call the other checks there
14:19:38 <frosch123> you do not need to change the prospecting case though
14:23:45 <andythenorth> prospecting handles trying multiple layouts for itself? Or it will just fail and user won't know that it was because a layout wasn't available?
14:24:56 <frosch123> RandomRange(indspec->num_table) <- it tries all layouts
14:25:46 <frosch123> though if a lot of layouts fail, and the remaining layouts are hard to place, there is an increased chance that 5000 tries do not result in a suitable place
14:30:48 <andythenorth> while loops scare me
14:32:50 <azaghal> while (0) scare(andythenorth);
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14:33:43 <frosch123> won't scare you a lot :p
14:35:01 <andythenorth> I wish I could see properly in code
14:35:39 <andythenorth> no-one gets born knowing how to code, but some get born with more ability to learn than others
14:38:24 <andythenorth> frosch123: I suppose it's dumb to move the cb28 handling inside CheckIfIndustryTilesAreFree ?
14:38:45 <andythenorth> it seems inappropriate....but I can see how it would work
14:39:47 <frosch123> create a new fucntion, and move CheckIfIndustryTilesAreFree + CheckIfCallBackAllowsCreation into it
14:39:56 <frosch123> then call that one from CreateNewIndustryHelper and the loop
14:40:37 <andythenorth> ok, that's a project for later today
14:40:55 <andythenorth> I'm going climbing :)
14:41:34 <frosch123> considering the clock that sounds like in-door :)
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15:33:49 <SmatZ> is __ln__ one of those "eka" guys? :p
15:36:59 <fonsinchen> I have a method in a class which shall be inlined and it's 4 lines long. Shall I
15:37:12 <fonsinchen> b, put the definition in the header
15:37:22 <fonsinchen> c, put the definition in the class body
15:37:58 <fonsinchen> I mean, with regards to coding style.
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15:39:20 <SmatZ> "shall be inlined" doesn't work with "a"
15:40:20 <frosch123> nor with "c", does it? (except within the build unit)
15:40:56 <SmatZ> true, you would have to have class body in the header :)
15:41:10 <fonsinchen> the class body is in the header ...
15:41:51 <fonsinchen> like "class Path { ... };"
15:41:53 <SmatZ> I think it's nicer to have definition in class body
15:42:52 <SmatZ> eg. not what is in widget_type.h
15:43:23 <fonsinchen> yes, shorter and less confusing. Contradicting to coding style, though:
15:43:28 <fonsinchen> "Very short methods can have one-line definition (if defined in the class scope)."
15:44:24 <frosch123> [17:42] <SmatZ> eg. not what is in widget_type.h <- assuming you mean window_gui.h, i would not consider it to match coding style either :)
15:45:23 <SmatZ> frosch123: actually, both files have that "problem" at some places :)
15:45:36 <fonsinchen> in widget_type.h you have b, and c, ... and for the one-liners you use b, while for the longer SetPadding() you use c, ...
15:46:07 <frosch123> hmm, yeah, somehow i opened the wrong file :)
15:46:35 <SmatZ> fonsinchen: it seems to depend on who coded that part of code :)
15:46:55 <fonsinchen> OK, I'll put it in the class body.
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15:52:52 <Alberth> maybe I should reconsider becoming an OpenTTD dev :p
15:54:55 <frosch123> yeah, they are pretty annoying, you really do not want to be part of them :p
15:55:54 * avdg should really consider to program c++ and read a lot of mac api's
15:56:36 <frosch123> i thought the point of that is to learn objc++
15:57:32 <Rubidium> glx: nah, objective-C++ is way better
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16:36:34 *** Andel was kicked by DorpsGek (Wrong channel. Retry in #tycoon.)
16:37:19 <Andel> My mistake DorpsGek but is there really a need to kick me?
16:37:54 <__ln__> he's just following his orders
16:38:18 <Andel> he could have told me instead...
16:39:24 <TrueBrain> don't highlight me :(
16:39:35 <Andel> hmm - DorpsGek flaged as you
16:39:45 <SmatZ> Andel: glx has script that sayd DorpsGek to kick whoever says "!*"
16:39:47 <TrueBrain> that DorpsGek runs on my account means little
16:40:03 <TrueBrain> either way, is the kick needed: yes
16:40:11 <TrueBrain> there wre some people in here who never learnt otherwise
16:40:21 <dihedral> still works i think :-P
16:40:29 <Andel> hmmm - and those of us who wanted to know the link for downloading?
16:40:32 <TrueBrain> and if you are not such person, glx will have no problem appoligizing ;) But most don't learn so kick :D
16:41:31 <Andel> perhaps an anomoloy of 3 !questions before kicking?
16:41:42 <TrueBrain> too much effort, too little gain
16:41:49 <TrueBrain> no bot in here reacts on !, so :)
16:42:10 <SmatZ> Andel: don't be ashamed, nobody is safe :)
16:42:13 <dihedral> TrueBrain, incorrect - at least one bot reacts to ! :-P
16:42:13 *** SmatZ was kicked by DorpsGek (Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.)
16:42:18 <dihedral> just not in the desired sense :-D
16:42:23 <TrueBrain> dihedral: it is no bot :)
16:42:43 <dihedral> it's a automated process scripted into an irc client
16:42:43 <TrueBrain> 1 script does not make a bot
16:42:45 <olleman> feels good man yes/no?
16:43:40 <dihedral> TrueBrain, as of when does it count as a bot? :-P
16:43:56 <TrueBrain> 2 or more? :p No, in my opinion when it is dedicated to it
16:43:59 <Andel> i'm gonna go play some openttd
16:44:27 <Rubidium> openttd.org/download-stable
16:44:36 <Rubidium> openttd.org/download-trunk
16:44:40 <Rubidium> openttd.org/download-opengfx
16:44:46 <Rubidium> openttd.org/download-grfcodec
16:44:49 <SmatZ> hmm topic misses "binaries."
16:44:57 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: binaries. is no website really
16:45:02 <Rubidium> SmatZ: binaries isn't that useful for users
16:45:22 <TrueBrain> (where most people also find the download link *hint* Andel *hint* :D :D )
16:45:51 <glx> a big green button on the official www is enough anyway :)
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16:45:53 <dihedral> not sure he was looking for the link
16:46:09 <TrueBrain> dihedral: [18:40] <Andel> hmmm - and those of us who wanted to know the link for downloading?
16:46:38 <dihedral> well, there are some who use a !download command in #openttdcoop
16:46:47 <dihedral> and then just click a link
16:46:52 <dihedral> heck - they'd trust any source
16:47:02 <SmatZ> [17:52:58] <Alberth> maybe I should reconsider becoming an OpenTTD dev :p <== what happened? :(
16:47:02 <TrueBrain> we are not such community :D
16:47:06 <glx> my script "redirects" to #openttdcoop ;)
16:47:36 <SmatZ> glx: it wasn't your script then?
16:47:54 <dihedral> SmatZ, his script 'mentions' #openttdcoop when kicking ;-)
16:48:04 <TrueBrain> [18:36] *** Andel has been kicked from the channel by DorpsGek (Wrong channel. Retry in #tycoon.).
16:48:17 <SmatZ> it can mention #tycoon for !links :)
16:48:45 <dihedral> * DorpsGek has kicked SmatZ from #openttd (Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.) <- NOPE
16:48:46 <glx> well there are 2 options depending on the !command
16:48:52 <SmatZ> probably it was me, who lied
16:49:08 <TrueBrain> what a lovely useless conversation :)
16:50:28 <glx> regexp("!(links)") { <-- #tycoon
16:50:28 <glx> regexp("!(clients|dl|download|grf|help|info|ip|osai|password|playercount|players|rcon|revision|version|wiki)") { <-- #openttdcoop
16:50:53 <TrueBrain> @kick TrueBrain act normal
16:50:53 *** TrueBrain was kicked by DorpsGek (act normal)
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16:51:14 * SmatZ wonders what !osai should do
16:51:34 <TrueBrain> join #openttdcoop and try ;)
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16:55:15 <dihedral> why not kick !~ m/links/ with redirect to #openttdcoop?
16:56:21 <glx> because I do what I want :)
17:03:41 * andythenorth is done climbing, and types with tired chalky fingers :P
17:27:09 <SpComb> "I don't want to use one-way path signals as their constant red light is depressing"
17:30:11 <Eddi|zuHause> use semaphores :)
17:30:44 <Rubidium> replace the signal sprites with happy smiles
17:42:52 * andythenorth needs to learn how to declare a function in C++ :P
17:43:27 <Alberth> like a definition, except ; instead of { ... } at the end
17:43:51 <Eddi|zuHause> type name(type1 param1, type2 param2);
17:44:38 <Eddi|zuHause> probably ; instead of ,
17:44:54 <Eddi|zuHause> no matter which way round i write it, it's always wrong for that language :p
17:45:40 <glx> type name(type1, type2); should work too, but not recommended
17:46:02 <SpComb> default argument values!
17:46:23 <glx> ha it's a C thing only then
17:47:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i have a hard time imagining this to work properly...
17:47:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean there's an ambiguity of whether it's a type name, or a param name with implicit int type
17:48:03 <SmatZ> glx: should work in C++ roo
17:48:20 <SmatZ> name (param1, param2); is C-only
17:49:20 <glx> WINBASEAPI HANDLE WINAPI CreateMutexA(LPSECURITY_ATTRIBUTES,BOOL,LPCSTR); <-- indeed it works, though it's in extern "C" {}
17:53:16 <__ln__> that's type name(type1,type2); isn't it
17:55:28 <andythenorth> my method of learning C++ by guessing doesn't work
17:55:28 <Eddi|zuHause> so it's either "name(param1,param2)" or "type name(type1, type2)"?
17:55:56 <Eddi|zuHause> now i understand what's so difficult about syntactical analysis of C++ ;)
17:56:20 <Hirundo> omitting the return type is C-only (default-int)
17:56:58 <frosch123> nothing is as frightening as the ancient int name(bla1, bla2) int bla1, bla2; {..}
17:57:18 <frosch123> not sure though whether i got it right
17:57:26 <glx> yes, luckily I never used this syntax
17:58:05 <Alberth> frosch123: looks ok, except a real programmer would not type the first "int" as it is implied :)
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17:59:14 <Hirundo> Real programmers use 1-letter variable names to maximize the information entropy per character
17:59:36 <Rubidium> Hirundo: and it makes you application smaller as well
17:59:48 <thastig> where would one go around looking to help with translation?
18:00:23 <dihedral> totally depends on what you need :-P
18:00:24 <Hirundo> type 'translate openttd' in google?
18:00:38 <dihedral> Hirundo, but can you go there?
18:00:44 <thastig> i meant i wanna be an editor so i can translate my language
18:01:13 <andythenorth> real programmers don't use 1 letter variable names
18:01:25 <Hirundo> _ and __ are better, indeed
18:01:27 <andythenorth> they write a minify processors to do that
18:01:38 <Rubidium> thastig: what language would you translate to?
18:01:47 <planetmaker> thastig: did you try translator.openttd.org? :-)
18:01:59 <thastig> of course i did dammit >.<
18:02:08 <thastig> i logged in, registered, i need to be an editor to make changes
18:02:21 <thastig> enough with the shitty advice please
18:02:31 <Rubidium> question #3 in the FAQ :)
18:02:55 <dihedral> that little piece of attitude actually made me smirk
18:03:03 <Rubidium> oh, you already sent an email :)
18:03:22 <thastig> yep, i think i have done everything then
18:03:30 <thastig> must wait for a mail back now i guess
18:03:31 <Rubidium> yes, the emails are handled manually
18:03:34 * andythenorth has to learn difference between static and void types
18:04:15 <andythenorth> woah. I have to declare the type the function returns? What crazy world is this :o
18:04:16 <thastig> i follow this project on and off every 6-10 months
18:04:32 <thastig> is there any major updates to the game or is it all little performance tweaks in every release?
18:05:10 <dihedral> andythenorth, what crazy world do you come frome?
18:05:12 <Rubidium> lots of new features every major release, then bugfixes in each minor release
18:05:22 <andythenorth> dihedral: python of course
18:05:34 <dihedral> of course! how could i ask!
18:05:51 <thastig> hmm, i just got a new laptop and cant wait to try the game again. my previous laptop used to overheat and burn my crotch
18:05:53 <dihedral> well, yes, you need to define the type that is returned
18:06:00 <andythenorth> dihedral: I don't care for your shitty advice
18:06:10 <Rubidium> thastig: there should be a mail on its way, although you should be able to translate now (maybe you'd to relogin though)
18:06:23 <dihedral> thastig, the term 'laptop' is no longer meant literally
18:06:46 * andythenorth avoids trying to understand and just reads the instructions
18:06:53 <thastig> lol yeah thanks for that Rubidium, im gonna afk and start working
18:06:54 <andythenorth> no types in nfo :P
18:07:03 <dihedral> andythenorth, thanks, i'll take that as a compliment.
18:08:43 <dihedral> the magic in php "lets" you not define types too
18:09:44 <andythenorth> and in javascript to some extent, although it will probably blow up
18:09:58 <andythenorth> but blowing up is standard operating procedure for js
18:10:22 <dihedral> and only one type that needs 'declaring'
18:10:45 * andythenorth lives in a world of duck typing
18:10:45 <dihedral> the other of the 2 types is a given, as appart from arrays, everything is a string
18:12:03 <thastig> hey, can anyone help me with the basics of the translating interface. which parts do i clicky and change...and is there a certain way to do it etc?.
18:12:28 <thastig> just need a lil push to get started :)
18:12:30 * Rubidium is off for some dinner or something :)
18:13:05 * andythenorth tries to remember programming
18:13:17 <dihedral> thastig, there is a dropdown with which you can select 'all', 'in need of confirmation', 'recently changed', uncommitted', and 'not translated'
18:13:20 <andythenorth> nfo is not programming
18:13:21 <Yexo> thastig: if you just want to translate everything and don't care which parts you translate first: go to the edit tab
18:13:36 <dihedral> (watch out for a notice bar, it may appear if one of those
18:13:40 <Yexo> select "Untranslated strings" in the dropdown
18:13:54 <dihedral> searching is done on basis of the selected list
18:14:29 <dihedral> you are able to look at other translations (iirc) but cannot edit them, so perhaps that might also be a good hint ;-)
18:15:25 <dihedral> try to be consistent, i.e. with the translation you chose for 'waypoint' or 'drive through road stop
18:15:27 <thastig> like this is confusing me
18:15:29 <thastig> {COMMA} bag{P "" s} of valuables
18:16:12 <dihedral> P stands for plural, "" means, the singular has nothing to append to the word 'bag', and for Plural add an "s"
18:16:27 <dihedral> i.e. 1 bag of valuables
18:16:35 * andythenorth tries to understand why CommandCost is declared by so many functions in industry_cmd.cpp
18:17:03 <dihedral> andythenorth, every cmd has to return command cost, as they are called automatically depending on the CMD type sent in the network packet
18:17:18 <dihedral> and that is the value expected, probably to be deducted from the company
18:17:21 <andythenorth> so I have to declare it
18:17:42 <dihedral> as a return value, yes
18:17:54 <thastig> *goes to ponder some more
18:18:03 <dihedral> andythenorth, check some command that does not cost anything, i.e. CMD_COMPANY_RENAME
18:18:18 <frosch123> andythenorth: commandcost is used to sum up all costs or error codes during execution
18:18:43 <frosch123> i.e. it is not only cost, but also success/failure
18:19:04 <dihedral> CmdRenameCompany in company_cmd.cpp
18:19:14 <dihedral> return CommandCost();
18:19:40 <dihedral> or: return CMD_ERROR;
18:20:09 <andythenorth> ok so a new function related to building industry will need to return CommandCost
18:20:41 <thastig> and what does the "Mark" button do in translations?
18:20:50 <dihedral> but do not listen to me, as i give shitty advice which you do not care for anyway ;-)
18:21:10 <frosch123> thastig: there is a category "strings needing validation"
18:21:12 <dihedral> thastig, Marking a translation so that you or someone else can have a look at it later on
18:21:22 <Yexo> that depends, do you also need to return an error message from that function or not? If no, a bool would suffice as return value
18:21:35 <andythenorth> Yexo: I have no idea yet :)
18:21:39 <thastig> i think im all set now. im gonna shift to all strings and fix, write em
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18:37:37 <thastig> what do i do if the string does not match the original....in the translation
18:37:58 <thastig> like it says Cotton Candy in the string but Candyfloss in the Original
18:39:33 <dihedral> cotton candy is used in toyland only ^^
18:40:04 <thastig> soo do i change the Candyfloss to Cotton Candy and then translate it?
18:40:21 <dihedral> you cannot translate origianl string
18:40:22 <thastig> or do i just translate candyfloss
18:40:26 <dihedral> you translate FROM original
18:40:55 <frosch123> shouldn't you end up with the same when translating them?
18:41:22 <thastig> it was a tricky one as there is no such thing as a candy floss or cotton candy in the urdu language
18:41:53 <planetmaker> thastig: if there's no literal translation, translate it as good as possible. Something which fits
18:42:27 <planetmaker> If you translate something like 'cotton candy' to 'schocolate bars' it will do, too - if it makes sense ;-)
18:42:41 <SpComb> those pink fluffy things
18:43:10 <thastig> well we normally use letters and words which sound exactly like the english word if its not in our language
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18:45:46 <planetmaker> hm... shouldn't you give your players rather an idea what it is by the name than a translation which *sounds* the same but has no meaning?
18:46:42 <thastig> we're a lazy bunch. instead of making up new words we just use the foreign word but write it with our letters
18:47:40 <planetmaker> that's certainly ok. If the average urdu speaking person then knows what it means
18:49:02 <Eddi|zuHause> {COMMA} means it has an additional parameter which should be displayed as a thousand-separated number
18:54:38 <andythenorth> thastig: are you the stig?
18:57:22 <andythenorth> frosch123: cb28 should have no effect if I comment this (and following 2 lines)? (_game_mode != GM_EDITOR && !CheckIfCallBackAllowsAvailability(it, IACT_USERCREATION)) {
18:57:59 <andythenorth> the stig (allegedly) lives round the corner from my old flat
18:58:34 <frosch123> andythenorth: that is not cb28, but 22 or so
18:59:38 * andythenorth chalks up one more victory for the 'first try and break it to understand it' method of coding
19:00:09 <andythenorth> I could have stared at something for ages thinking "why doesn't it work"
19:00:20 <andythenorth> much more fun to say "why isn't it broken when it should be" :P
19:01:22 * andythenorth wonders where cb28 is checked
19:01:39 <andythenorth> CheckIfIndustryIsAllowed?
19:01:48 <frosch123> CheckIfCallBackAllowsCreation
19:04:37 <thastig> {COMMA} مسافر{P "" ﻴﻦ}
19:05:43 <frosch123> though it took me some time to understand the question :)
19:06:07 <thastig> this is a lot harder than i imagined
19:07:16 <frosch123> of course {P مسافر مسافرﻴﻦ} might also work
19:08:12 <thastig> so i write every word like that? {P plural singular}
19:08:29 <frosch123> no, {P singular plural}
19:08:52 <thastig> i wish my language was left to right -.-
19:08:53 <frosch123> but with rtl it might be displayed {P plural singular} :)
19:08:56 <Rubidium> only when there's {COMMA} or {NUM} in the string
19:10:37 <frosch123> thastig: there are languages with 5 plural forms :)
19:14:26 <thastig> {WEIGHT} shows up as 45kg or sumething like that right?
19:14:57 <frosch123> yes, though likely tons, not kg :)
19:15:29 <thastig> i gotta check everything thats already been done too
19:19:04 <andythenorth> is starting with a pencil the best way to understand industry code?
19:19:19 <andythenorth> i.e. writing out all the functions and vars, and what's in scope where?
19:19:48 <andythenorth> I can't seem to hold it in my head
19:22:42 <Alberth> write doxygen comments, and read the generated documentation?
19:24:26 <andythenorth> I can more or less understand the industry code in each function :)
19:24:45 <andythenorth> it's what's calling what when and with what vars that I can't keep track of
19:26:50 <andythenorth> for example, what is this declaring, and what's the scope of it? IndustryType it = GB(p1, 0, 8);
19:27:43 <frosch123> when commands are send over the network they usually just get a tile and two 32bit ints as data
19:27:51 <frosch123> so everything needs stuffing into those two p1 and p2
19:28:06 <Alberth> it creates a new varible 'it', assigns a value. Scope of 'it' is until the closing }
19:28:29 <thastig> k 81 strings checked. now to download the game and actually play it after months of hiatus :o
19:29:09 <Alberth> type of 'it' (a number 0 .. NUM_INDUSTRYTYPES-1)
19:30:28 <Alberth> there are sort of standard names for standard things, '*i' for Industry struct, it for IndustryType
19:30:41 <andythenorth> so this fetches some kind of data type holding industry props? const IndustrySpec *indspec = GetIndustrySpec(it);
19:31:02 <dihedral> andythenorth, what kind of editor are you using?
19:31:18 <Alberth> yep, IndustrySpec struct describes the IndustryType
19:32:26 <dihedral> there might be a menu item (linked to a hot key) that will take you to the definition of a variable / function / class / method /enum. ...
19:33:15 <andythenorth> dihedral: there is
19:33:27 <andythenorth> I think I need C / C++ for dummies first though ;)
19:36:16 <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> i.e. writing out all the functions and vars, and what's in scope where? <-- you might want to get your IDE to print a call graph
19:36:30 <andythenorth> functions seem (to me) to pass an insane amount of parameters :)
19:36:56 <Alberth> Command functions usually do yeah :)
19:37:15 <Eddi|zuHause> there's a system behind it
19:37:23 <Eddi|zuHause> it gets easier once you understand that ;)
19:37:24 <frosch123> they industry building functions only do since someone requested to be able to access ceratin stuff in those callbacks
19:38:13 <frosch123> thought it might be easier at some point to stuff everything into a struct
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19:39:06 <LunarWolf> needs a tool to encode that I embed graphics in the game and check
19:39:53 <frosch123> btw. i have not seen bennythenoob lately
19:41:38 <Alberth> LunarWolf: for what graphics?
19:42:18 * Alberth considers recommending NML as tool
19:42:57 *** andythenorth is now known as someone
19:43:06 *** someone is now known as andythenorth
19:43:53 <frosch123> hehe, but iirc the request to access the randombits was from ge*rge or so
19:45:30 <frosch123> gui? vehicles? landscape? industries? houses?
19:46:07 <frosch123> 8bpp normal zoom? 32bpp extra zoom?
19:46:32 <frosch123> extra zoom industries?
19:47:21 <frosch123> you couldn't get an easier projekt to start with?
19:47:51 <frosch123> replacing graphics of default industries? or new industries?
19:49:52 <LunarWolf> Industrial_Stations_Renewal-0.8.0 With someone we do this in an image to 32bpp Extra Zoom
19:50:56 <frosch123> so, extrazoom stations, not industries?
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19:52:45 <frosch123> ok, do you want to replace the graphics of the original stations? of industrial-stations-renewal-8? or separate new ones?
19:54:06 <LunarWolf> e have two test models to check, but I do not have to encode
19:56:00 <LunarWolf> so want to replace the original, and this applies to all contents of this supplement.
19:57:44 <frosch123> i guess then you only need pngcodec
19:58:01 <LunarWolf> so want to replace the original, and this applies to all contents of this supplement.
19:58:27 <frosch123> you will need to figure out the spritenumbers of the original graphics
19:58:45 <frosch123> either by decoding them using grfcodec or grf2html, or by using the ingame spritealigner and spritepicker
19:59:18 <olleman> oh is the wiki also...
20:14:55 * andythenorth resumes staring at industry code :)
20:15:20 * avdg goes for another osx patch
20:16:35 <andythenorth> so if I'm trying to wrap two existing functions (a and b) in another function c, when I call c, I need to supply all the parameters used by a and b
20:16:56 <andythenorth> are parameters a strict list where order matters?
20:22:35 <andythenorth> so I can see how the function declaration handles what's passed
20:22:53 <andythenorth> assert != some form of unit test?
20:23:32 <frosch123> assert checks whether the term passed to it evaluated to true, and crashes ottd if not :)
20:23:50 <frosch123> so yes, for testing
20:24:24 <andythenorth> so declaring a new function also means understanding what needs to be asserted?
20:24:52 <frosch123> if you just call other functions you do not need to duplicate their assertions
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23:12:25 <Aali> oh what the hell is this
23:12:48 <Aali> since when do trains consider the back of a one-way PBS to be a valid destination?
23:14:00 <Aali> whenever a train gets lost in my current game it starts bouncing off the back of the nearest signal
23:14:47 <Aali> which pretty much guarantees it will be lost until I manually rescue it
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23:35:04 <V453000> Aali: a feature :D I consider it a bug though
23:36:46 <V453000> it breaks the game, and by having it you dont actually reach anything reasonable
23:40:20 <Aali> this was done *intentionally*?
23:40:51 <Aali> could atleast have made it an option
23:41:01 <Aali> and if I had any say it would default to off
23:42:50 <ccfreak2k> The backside of PBS signals aren't unpassable, and this is intentional behaviour.
23:43:06 <ccfreak2k> Instead, the penalty of going through the back is high as to "discourage" trains from taking that route.
23:43:52 <Aali> and penalties have nothing to do with it
23:43:58 <Aali> since it only affects lost trains
23:55:10 <Eddi|zuHause> lost trains are an unfixable issue
23:55:33 <Eddi|zuHause> that's why it's a Bad Thing (tm) to try to fix them
23:56:45 <Eddi|zuHause> it will only disturb perfectly valid situations where the behaviour is useful
23:57:14 <Aali> IMO, no train should ever reserv a path to the back of a one-way signal, lost or not
23:57:35 <Aali> the behaviour only affects lost trains
23:58:36 <Aali> so if you consider it "useful" you rely on lost trains finding their way
23:58:48 <Aali> which of course is a bad idea
23:59:47 <Aali> as I see it, the way it is now serves a select few odd situations and breaks everything else whereas the old behaviour was good most of the time
continue to next day ⏵
