IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-09-14
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00:59:19 <SineDeviance> anyone want to play online with me?
01:01:03 <VVG> why would you ask that question here?
01:01:40 <VVG> i mean, there are plenty of servers populated with people who want to play with/against someone
01:04:05 <SineDeviance> VVG: no, there aren't
01:04:30 <SineDeviance> VVG: there's like ... four servers that are populated right now
01:05:03 <SineDeviance> one of them is full, one is polish language only (i dont speak polish) and the other two have play rules
01:05:15 <SineDeviance> VVG: uh yeah i JUST looked in the master server browser
01:05:36 <VVG> i guess ingame browser only shows servers with same version as yours
01:05:51 <SineDeviance> i am using 1.0.3 stable
01:06:48 <SineDeviance> the servers on that page arent the same ones in the server browser
01:07:25 <SineDeviance> in any case, some of those are already in their 80th year or whatever
01:07:35 <SineDeviance> i'd rather play with someone start from scratch, yknow?
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04:39:30 <SineDeviance> TruePikachu: i am. kinda.
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07:29:54 <VVG> I've put together a working version of vehicle sorter based on vehicles' arrival/departure times. http://www.pastie.org/1157628 . I'd really appreciate some comments on it.
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07:38:23 <planetmaker> what's the difference between arrival and expected arrival?
07:39:29 <VVG> expected takes latenesss counter into account. same as scheduled/expected panel in timetable window
07:40:39 <Terkhen> why is loop_failsafe_check required? you could just check for i >= v->GetNumOrders()
07:41:38 <Eddi|zuHause> i still think the "expected arrival" should not take into account waiting times at stations...
07:42:03 <planetmaker> why not, Eddi|zuHause ?
07:42:27 <VVG> primary condition is order's destination == destination wanted. loop failsafe there in case by some accident it will try to calculate a/d times for a vehicle that has no such station in its orders
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07:42:47 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: when one plans buffer times at stations, so the train can catch up, this is currently not considered for the lateness...
07:43:38 <Eddi|zuHause> might be difficult to explain...
07:43:58 <Eddi|zuHause> VVG: because i said so a year ago already...
07:44:42 <planetmaker> hm... is there a flexible waiting time at stations?
07:44:58 <Eddi|zuHause> what do you mean?
07:44:59 <VVG> regardless that still part, i don't quite get you :)
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07:45:28 <norbert79> Morning/Afternoon everyone
07:45:29 <Eddi|zuHause> VVG: example, a train has 4 stations: A,B,C,D,C,B[,A...]
07:46:03 <Eddi|zuHause> and travel times A->B 100 ticks, B->C 100 ticks and C->D 100 ticks
07:46:11 <Eddi|zuHause> and waiting time at each station 10 ticks
07:46:23 <Eddi|zuHause> except at A and D, where it has waiting time 100 ticks
07:46:39 <Eddi|zuHause> now, if the train is 50 ticks late
07:46:54 <Eddi|zuHause> it will show for each station at the round trip 50 ticks expected delay
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07:47:14 <Eddi|zuHause> but this doesn't make sense, because the waiting time at A or D would catch up this delay
07:48:40 <VVG> i don't think it's easy to fix that
07:48:45 <Eddi|zuHause> so when calculating the expected arrival, it should substract the scheduled waiting times at each intermediate station
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07:49:18 <Eddi|zuHause> this slightly underestimates the expected arrival, since the train still will have real waiting times for loading
07:49:54 <Eddi|zuHause> but imho that's better than the "naive" overestimation currently done
07:53:24 <VVG> i wonder why it hasn't been done yet :)
07:55:05 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, why is an under-estimation better than an over-estimation?
07:55:25 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: the emphasis is on _naive_
07:55:39 <planetmaker> as I understood you, you advocate to ignore the waiting times at stations
07:56:26 <planetmaker> and I fail to see the advantage of one method over the other. Both are not perfect, both fail somewhat
07:56:30 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: yes, for lack of sensible estimation how long the train will actually have to stay
07:56:55 <norbert79> You guys never rest, don't you? :)
07:56:59 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: because the current method utterly fails for scheduled buffer times
07:59:51 <planetmaker> norbert79, we do. But we live in the same time as you ;-) Thus we sleep at the same time ;-)
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08:10:01 <Rubidium> you *could* actually make a better guess by looking at the order of a vehicle and its load, e.g. if it's full you set transfer and leave empty you'd need X amount of time
08:10:50 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: yes, but that cannot work over more than one station, and it isn't really a good estimate with cargodist either
08:11:18 <Rubidium> then base your estimate on full loads
08:11:41 <Rubidium> it'll definitely be better than assuming it doesn't do anything
08:12:44 <Eddi|zuHause> so it needs a cached value over how many load/unload steps are needed to fill the vehicle [using gradual loading], or whatever non-gradual-loading does for waiting time calculation
08:13:10 <planetmaker> yestion then is: what happens with the estimate for a train with orders goto A; goto Z (and not goto non-stop) where stations B ... Y are in between implicitly?
08:13:26 <Eddi|zuHause> that might be a fairly large overestimation for trams and cargodist
08:13:59 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: why should that change anything?
08:14:09 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: this is solely about _scheduled waiting times_
08:14:29 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: no order, means no schedule, so nothing to worry about
08:14:45 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: the actual waiting and travelling times are not changed
08:16:06 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, yes, but it influences the estimated travel time :-)
08:16:12 <planetmaker> at the final station
08:16:19 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: how?
08:16:42 <planetmaker> if I load and unload at 16 stations or travel through them makes a difference, does it?
08:17:04 <planetmaker> and it strongly depends upon how much I can unload and load there.
08:17:21 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: no? the timetable is fixed, if you didn't include that in your timetable, the estimation is useless, and you are stupid.
08:17:44 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, I included that in my time table.
08:17:58 <planetmaker> But the estimation is done by the algorithm. thus it has to account for that
08:18:10 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: then i don't know what you're talking about, it has nothing to do with my suggestion
08:18:58 <planetmaker> assume schedule: travel A->Z in 100 days.
08:19:38 <planetmaker> now, assume that works in 120 days, if I do full unload + load everywhere inbetween
08:19:55 <planetmaker> and takes 80 day, if I run empty and the stations are empty, too
08:20:02 <planetmaker> what is the estimated arrival time at Z?
08:20:18 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: again, only _scheduled_ stops are considered. you have only two scheduled stops
08:21:16 <planetmaker> yes. But the algorithm gives me an estimation for when the train arrives at Z
08:21:23 <Rubidium> being early doesn't happen often, and if it happens you won't know about it until you actually arrive (or you have timetabled via orders). After that the earliness is removed completely by just waiting at that station
08:21:41 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: yes, which is lateness at departure at A, plus scheduled travel time A->Z
08:21:59 <Eddi|zuHause> none of the proposed algorithms change this calculation
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08:22:51 <VVG> Rubidium: lateness is also removed at stops right? as much as wainting_times allows
08:23:30 <Rubidium> as such, arriving early is not something to be concerned about; it's about arriving late in which case you can use the lateness of the departure to determine the lateness at arrival, plus the time to (fully) load/unload (or only load or unload depending on the order) minus the scheduled waiting time which gives you the (estimated) lateness at departure of that station
08:23:38 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: the only difference is at the expected arrival back at A. which is either:
08:23:47 <Eddi|zuHause> 1) lateness + scheduled time A->Z + scheduled time at Z + scheduled time Z->A
08:24:10 <Rubidium> you should, however, clamp the estimated waiting time with the scheduled waiting time
08:24:38 <Eddi|zuHause> 2) min(lateness - scheduled time at Z, 0) + scheduled time A->Z + scheduled time Z->A
08:24:50 <Eddi|zuHause> 3) min(lateness - scheduled time at Z, full load at Z) + scheduled time A->Z + scheduled time Z->A
08:25:17 <Eddi|zuHause> 3) min(lateness - scheduled time at Z + full load at Z, full load at Z) + scheduled time A->Z + scheduled time Z->A
08:26:11 <planetmaker> Rubidium, also for early arrivals?
08:26:18 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: the presence of stations B->Y is completely irrelevant
08:26:19 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, yeah :-)
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08:26:55 <Rubidium> planetmaker: as I said, early arrivals don't matter. There the train will depart on time, not too early.
08:27:09 <Rubidium> the estimation only matters for vehicles being too late
08:30:23 <Eddi|zuHause> what i mean is that the current method (1) is the worst, because it totally negates the existence of buffer times
08:32:24 <VVG> since estimation of expected times is that flawed, if i get it right, is it kinda useless to actually try sorting using those estimated values?
08:33:20 <Eddi|zuHause> VVG: it's still fairly accurate for trains that are close to this station
08:40:53 <planetmaker> VVG, _that_ flawed is always relative
08:41:06 <planetmaker> and estimates are more inaccurate the further future they relate to. That's normal
08:41:18 <planetmaker> It's just a matter whether the estimates can be made better
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08:47:16 <Eddi|zuHause> on my network, the trains usually build up lateness over the course of the route, and it gets balanced by the buffer time at the final station
08:47:35 <Eddi|zuHause> that last part is the key point where the current estimate fails
08:48:12 <VVG> what do you mean build up? won't they leave earlier if they arrived late?
08:48:50 <Eddi|zuHause> they wait for as long as it takes to unload/load
08:49:17 <Eddi|zuHause> the lateness usually comes from blocked signals
08:49:26 <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. a slow freight train
08:50:26 <VVG> michi_cc some time ago introduced a fix for gradual loading. Vehicle should leave a station according to timetable now even if it's still loading. Not sure about unloading part
08:51:13 <Eddi|zuHause> or sometimes i simply underestimate the travel times at the intermediate stations, to prevent the trains needlessly waiting
08:51:39 <Eddi|zuHause> VVG: no, that was not the fix he commited
08:52:31 <Eddi|zuHause> VVG: what he actually commited was something unrelated to timetables
08:55:19 <VVG> before that fix i had trains continiously loading even though wait_time has already passed by
08:55:32 <VVG> after it - they leave as scheduled
08:55:51 <Eddi|zuHause> VVG: yes. but it still has nothing to do with wait_time
08:56:57 <Eddi|zuHause> VVG: if a vehicle arrives late, it still makes a complete unload/load before leaving
08:57:48 <Eddi|zuHause> no, without full load
08:58:01 <Eddi|zuHause> full load overrides timetable
08:58:32 <Eddi|zuHause> normal load also overrides timetable, but the "worst case" scenario of drop-by-drop loading was reduced by the fix
08:59:06 <Eddi|zuHause> still, both the problem and the fix are unrelated to timetables
08:59:26 <Eddi|zuHause> it's just because the people with timetables cared the most about it
08:59:29 <VVG> wait. your vehicles build up lateness at station where they are set to stop and do something that overrides timetable?
09:00:20 <Eddi|zuHause> i think you misunderstand me
09:02:08 <Eddi|zuHause> loading/unloading _always_ takes precedent over timetabled departure
09:02:42 * dihedral does not ever use timetables
09:03:35 <VVG> if i don't specify via orders gui what to do exactly at station, vehicles will try to make up for lateness, wait more or less before leaving.
09:04:23 <Eddi|zuHause> there is no way a timetable may cause the vehicle to "wait less"
09:05:03 <VVG> vehicle is schedulet to waint x ticks. but it arriaved with lateness y. it will stay there x - y.
09:05:11 <Eddi|zuHause> it "waits more" if loading finishes early, or it "waits the same" if loading stops late
09:05:18 <dihedral> stop and (un)load if not late :-P
09:06:40 <Eddi|zuHause> VVG: make an experiment. set all waiting times to 1 tick, and watch the vehicles load/unload
09:07:51 <Eddi|zuHause> what's the time of a gradual load step? 40 ticks?
09:12:48 <VVG> seems like i had pretty big waiting times to not notice such thing
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09:33:39 <VVG> hehe. forgot to stop the test, it was running in background. vehicle only had 2 stations to stop at, with wait times 100 ticks. It is late by 30000 ticks by now.
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09:59:41 <norbert79> The German Democratic Republic left the chat :]
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10:19:54 <beyre83> wonders if there is a page that states whats new with the current RC candidate since its been 3-4yrs since i last looked at openttd and am wondering whats new
10:20:45 <dihedral> good places to look are... changelog? wiki? forums?
10:21:12 <beyre83> i did look but i must be blind :p it states that you can see the change log from the links on the left
10:21:37 <dihedral> did you download an rc?
10:22:09 <beyre83> as i wanted to know if the network sync issues have been resolved yet
10:22:30 <dihedral> totally depends on the sync issue you had
10:22:35 <dihedral> which version you had
10:22:43 <dihedral> perhaps it's something openttd cannot even fix ;-)
10:23:08 <beyre83> mmm an oldish version that when you had a big company it would desync and the game would stop due to the ammount of data
10:24:10 <beyre83> well if i could find a list of the old versions then i could tell you :p
10:24:32 <Aali> what do you consider a big company?
10:24:39 <dihedral> right - anyway, i do not know of such a bug
10:24:45 <Eddi|zuHause> beyre83: i'm fairly sure all desync issues from 4 years ago are resolved by now...
10:24:56 <beyre83> well then thats good :D
10:25:12 <beyre83> it was around version 0.3 maybe 0.4
10:25:16 <beyre83> cant really remember :p
10:25:20 <Aali> also what Eddi|zuHause said, they have probably been replaced by shiny new desyncs by now
10:25:42 <dihedral> hard to find and hard to debug :-P
10:25:48 <beyre83> and i found the changelog :p
10:25:53 <beyre83> if you click on download
10:26:19 <beyre83> tho the front page is a bit missleading as it says you can find out from the links at the top left
10:26:23 <dihedral> and if you know which version you played before, you do not have to read the entire file
10:26:24 <beyre83> there isnt such a thing :p
10:27:16 <beyre83> well its nice to see the project is still going
10:28:18 <planetmaker> Concerning desyncs: we don't see any on our servers... and yes, we have big companies ;-)
10:28:28 <Aali> it has come a long way since 0.6 (released around the time I found out about it)
10:28:44 <planetmaker> yeah. quite a long
10:28:52 <Rubidium> most desync fixes lately are hypothetical desyncs uncovered by code reviews instead of people actually triggering the desync
10:28:52 <Aali> I can only imagine the things I take for granted that weren't there in 0.3
10:28:58 <planetmaker> and I'm amazed to see you here, Aali ;-)
10:29:08 <beyre83> mmm i think it was 0.3.5
10:29:29 <Rubidium> ghehe... the *first* version with network play :)
10:30:20 <Aali> planetmaker: unfortunately I will not stay for long, I have to leave in 15 minutes
10:30:53 <planetmaker> but nice to see you're still around. If only occasionally :-)
10:31:01 <beyre83> so yea 0.3.5/0.3.6 it was :)
10:31:03 <planetmaker> beyre83, you will hardly recognize the game
10:31:17 <beyre83> and that can only be a good thing
10:31:44 <Rubidium> then even 0.4.0 would've been much better w.r.t. desyncs, anyhow I've not seen a user-triggered desync since April 2010
10:32:01 <planetmaker> we did - a year ago - a legacy game with 0.4.5 IIRC. And, behold. that was _really_ backward already
10:32:12 <planetmaker> missing a lot of convenience things
10:32:17 <Aali> planetmaker: I've been watching the development of certain swedish grfs and I check in with the coop public server sometimes but thats about it
10:32:28 <Aali> too much of time goes to other things :/
10:32:51 <beyre83> how about Certain patchs being applyed have thoes issues been resloved?
10:33:01 <beyre83> i remember there where patchs that crashed the game
10:33:06 <beyre83> but i cant remember them
10:34:07 <Rubidium> with patch you mean NewGRF?
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10:34:57 <Rubidium> as NewGRFs were freaking new back then as well :)
10:35:20 <planetmaker> they're _new_grfs after all :-P
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10:35:32 <Rubidium> if you mean patches as in changes to OpenTTD's source code, then no... some of them still crash but that's not something the OpenTTD developers can fix
10:36:06 <planetmaker> not bad, norbert79 :-)
10:36:16 <norbert79> Thank you! Still missing lot, but almost done
10:36:28 <planetmaker> while you're at it: create also the construction stages. Easier, probably, to do at the same time
10:36:58 <Rubidium> that image isn't 200x87, but 198×120
10:37:00 <norbert79> Ok, I will try but remember, that it took me around an hour to create this :)
10:37:10 <planetmaker> and it might have some kind of small garden or whatever in front. Or bicycle stands. or...
10:37:11 <TheUros> hi to all ... i need an advice .. when i build stations for passengers i try to build them as closest possible to the city center so i get more passengers .... but in this way i'm limited with space to upgrade station in future ... in what way i can build station on city border and get a lot of passengers ?
10:37:15 <norbert79> Rubidium: That was just a reference for myself :)
10:37:42 <norbert79> TheUros: Use CTRL button while placing new stations, which are close to your exsting one, so you can cover more area
10:37:44 <planetmaker> TheUros, not one station, but uses busses to transfer
10:38:10 <norbert79> or that, get more passengers, but select 'Transfer' mode, instead of clear transportation
10:38:12 <Rubidium> enable the magic bulldozer
10:38:29 <norbert79> Rubidium: I think it's easy to solve without cheating :)
10:38:32 <planetmaker> and then drag the map :-P
10:38:38 <Rubidium> or as TTDPatchers call it: extra dynamite
10:39:19 <TheUros> ok thanx .. i try to build realistic network so use of CTRL to connect stations isn't good realisem .. so i'll use busses to transfer passengers from the center
10:40:27 <beyre83> well yes it was pritty new back in the day :)
10:40:31 <Rubidium> hmm, that reminds me of those "trainer" programs for OpenTTD
10:40:57 <TheUros> another question ... is there any difference if i transfer passengers from A to B and back from B to A .. or just in one direction .. from A to B ... ?
10:41:53 <beyre83> but trying to find the time to play the game now, that could be a issue :p since i am currently trying to self architect my house :S
10:42:10 <beyre83> so i am having to learn cheif architect x2 inside and out
10:42:43 <beyre83> it has a 1200page manual :s
10:43:00 <beyre83> tho thats a little off topic :p
10:46:06 <beyre83> mmm thinks people have gone quiet :p
10:47:20 <Eddi|zuHause> oh the young impatient ones
10:47:33 <Eddi|zuHause> they think 3 minutes is quiet
10:48:01 <norbert79> beyre83: Work in progress :)
10:48:13 <Wolf01> they never tried TruePikachu
10:48:29 <Wolf01> 300 lines in 5 minutes
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10:50:15 <beyre83> norbert79: very nice :)
10:50:23 <norbert79> beyre83: Thank you!
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10:53:11 <norbert79> beyre83: So I think you can guess why I am silent
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10:55:06 <beyre83> thats what ive been working on
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10:55:54 <norbert79> beyre83: Very nice indeed! Mine is a bit harder, since it doesn't happen, that I have to work on a such low resolution
10:56:04 <norbert79> so it's a real challenge for me
10:56:27 <beyre83> mm but i have calculations to preform, so it dosnt fall down when its actually built
10:56:42 <beyre83> i am trying to cut out the architect totaly
10:56:58 <beyre83> and just get the calcs checked by a structal engineer
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10:58:08 <beyre83> bought a 33000m2 plot of land in estonia on which i plan to build said house
10:59:05 <LunarWolf> how to install a patch: 32bpp for 20445.patch
10:59:31 <peter1138> beyre83, strange lack of windows...
11:01:13 <beyre83> mmm well it is not finished yet
11:01:23 <beyre83> and ive redone it since then
11:01:30 <beyre83> as the messurements didnt work out
11:01:41 <beyre83> but that was an idear to give you some example :)
11:02:17 <beyre83> is currently uploading a 3d model (avi) of the house you just seen for a 360o view
11:02:23 <LunarWolf> Damn, I do not know why I played terribly cut
11:03:43 <beyre83> but i am new to the program so i have to read the 1200page manual i printed out :p
11:04:33 <Rubidium> hmm... 33000m2 is like 20% bigger than the average Ikea store
11:04:57 <Rubidium> you must be aiming for having a huge garden :)
11:05:42 <Eddi|zuHause> i think our patch of land is more like 800m²
11:06:13 <LunarWolf> I also included too slow
11:06:45 <beyre83> but its a forest with out being a forest
11:06:51 <beyre83> as its not classed as forest
11:07:35 <beyre83> but the trees are useable for sale
11:09:20 <Rubidium> LunarWolf: whining about the EZ patch in here won't help you; there is nobody in here that is involved in that patch, so whatever you're talking/complaining about won't get picked up in any way
11:10:05 <Rubidium> besides reinforcing the perception of others that the EZ patch is not worth looking at
11:14:29 <LunarWolf> and good, I'll give it a rest, as amended, and Check out other versions
11:14:40 <Wolf01> gah, they really need to put a manual of "how to open this box" inside the box... I had to destroy the new stereo headphones' box to be able to extract it, it was a labyrinth of paperboard, glue and plastic
11:23:21 <beyre83> anyone look at the video :)
11:25:19 <TomyLobo> with all these 3d models flying around, did anyone ever think of an "export 3d mesh" button, which would export your current map and all as some kind of 3d mesh file?
11:27:05 <TomyLobo> rendering everything live in a proper 3d engine would probably suck, given the sheer amount of stuff flying around
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11:33:50 <Eddi|zuHause> there is no such thing as a 3d model in openttd
11:34:27 <Eddi|zuHause> your best bet would be bounding boxes, but those are wrong all over the place
11:37:01 <TomyLobo> Eddi|zuHause i mean the models used to render the 32 bit graphics
11:37:34 <Eddi|zuHause> then you're in the wrong place to discuss those
11:37:56 <TomyLobo> i just threw out a random idea, nothing else
11:38:13 <TomyLobo> feel free to steal :)
11:41:37 <beyre83> Eddi|zuHause: i feel like ive been in the wrong place all my life :p
11:42:07 <Eddi|zuHause> there's a wrong place for everything ;)
11:42:39 <Nite> and here it is THE wrong place for everything sometimes
11:43:38 <Noldo> TomyLobo: the main issue is that the game knows nothing about the 3d models
11:44:40 <Nite> i always wondered if it would be easyly possible to implement rotating the map, without 3d models just s n e w ...
11:46:09 <Nite> (by the way *i plant some trees around the coop community to raise my rating again*)
11:47:10 <Noldo> Nite: the industries that span more than one tile are the problem
11:48:31 <Nite> ok the none square buildings
11:50:01 <planetmaker> Nite, yes and no. It's possible. But it requires a considerable graphical effort
11:50:19 <planetmaker> you need to draw all industries and most houses from at least one other perspective
11:50:26 <planetmaker> same with airports
11:50:58 <Nite> well the square ones could stay the way they are
11:51:22 <planetmaker> yes, that's easy, though people will complain about that later, too. But it's not required for a first step
11:52:50 <planetmaker> If *someone* wants to e.g. have a go at the default airports and provide them in a rotational variation. By all means: please do so
11:52:50 <Nite> i guess i remember its doen that way in other non 3d buildup games - the map rotates but not the buildings ...
11:53:04 <planetmaker> it can even already be implemented as newgrf and would ease this step :-)
11:53:36 <planetmaker> (and I know which newgrf I'd put those sprites into ;-) )
11:54:24 <Nite> ok so its almost there ... just some sprites needed ...
11:55:20 <planetmaker> well. Only airports can be rotated
11:55:29 <planetmaker> Industries is a big task. As are buildings
11:55:52 <planetmaker> And that's several hundreds to a few thousand sprites
11:56:21 <planetmaker> and then there's the programming effort :-)
11:56:23 <Nite> btw many grfs haev total non uniform industry buildings so all the newgrf devs would have to do a lot of wurk too
11:57:11 <planetmaker> but that *could* be taken care of somehow. E.g. to disallow rotation if such newgrfs are present
11:57:25 <planetmaker> unless they provide information that they support this feature
11:57:40 <Nite> and i guess then there is the fact that it is superb playable without rotating already
11:58:08 <planetmaker> until you add cliffs and alike ;-)
11:58:42 * TrueBrain runs to planetmaker, gives him a hug, and runs away
11:58:59 * planetmaker hugs TrueBrain quickly back :-)
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12:01:04 <Nite> all the eyecandy aside ... hows the cargodIEst advancing?
12:01:19 <Nite> somone has a server up atm?
12:02:33 <Ammler> I would guess, that the server versions starting with g are such
12:04:06 <planetmaker> probably one server around. At least last time I looked, same assumptions as Ammler
12:04:59 <Ammler> cargodist is not playable on MP, imo
12:06:27 <Nite> well i would say playable but experimantal
12:06:50 <Nite> (the graphs on the map where ugly)
12:07:10 <Nite> how do i get to these "g versions" ? *confused*
12:08:27 <planetmaker> if it's not there, you have to build it yourself from the git repository
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12:23:07 <VVG> Ammler: why it isn't playable?
12:26:51 <Ammler> because it needs micro management
12:28:21 <Nite> 2 players both have tehir cities, and tehn some "IC" kind of lines linked the cities
12:28:38 <Nite> id did work out nicely at first sight ...
12:28:58 <Nite> (exept it was hard to read the graphs)
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12:29:43 <Ammler> well, I meant you build something then leave for an hour and the server continue
12:30:51 <Nite> you mean idle players are bad for cargodist ...
12:31:13 <Nite> well then it would be perfect for coop games ...
12:32:41 <Ammler> also it is a bit silly, that the cargo does chose the destination acording to the route available
12:32:43 <Nite> ... cargodist sure does alot 4 singelplayer ..
12:33:14 <Ammler> so it is like normal transfer game without the need to set transfers :-)
12:33:15 <Nite> cargo should have a city or destination in mind, then search for a route
12:33:42 <Ammler> no, it shouldn't care about the route
12:33:48 <Nite> exactly, i remember that bummer now
12:33:51 <Ammler> that should be up the transport companies
12:34:07 <Nite> its still you choose where cargo has to go not the system
12:34:31 <Ammler> yep, that does make the name cargodist kinda invalid
12:36:11 <Ammler> hmm, maybe that is the reason for the i, should check the wiki :-)
12:36:20 <Nite> so "places" (= towns industreis) should be desired destienations not stations ... i guess
12:36:53 <Nite> could be its distribution not destination
12:37:22 <Nite> i wonder is it more distribution or destination in rl ?
12:38:57 <Ammler> cargo destination could be fun together with infra sharing, so you would be forced to transfer the cargo to an other comp or use it's infra.
12:38:59 <__ln__> did you just talk about something related to realism?
12:39:29 <Nite> and somehow the cargo has to choose routes itself or it will constantly go on wrong trains (or rvs ships)
12:40:44 <Nite> many things work with it still it seems and is incomplete
12:41:08 <Nite> i didnt really aask bout realism more wondered about it ...
12:42:56 <Nite> another quick idea would be that it si quickly chekced to how many towns another town is connected and then producing more or less pax and mail ...
12:48:55 <Nite> cargo has destination in mind chekcs if train(vh) has it in orders then geos on train or not, that would be it for simple minds like me ...
12:49:14 <Nite> (no checking the fastest route oslt
12:49:40 <VVG> so, it's not convinient for ottd to work out transfers using cargodist in mp? for example in those coop pax games?
12:49:49 <norbert79> God it takes a lot of time to draw in such small resolution...
12:50:03 <norbert79> I thought vector graphics are hard...
12:50:24 <planetmaker> norbert79, it not harder nor more difficult, I guess. Just different. And not easy :-)
12:50:42 <planetmaker> Guess why OpenGFX took more than two years to get a first set of sprites for everything
12:50:46 <norbert79> planetmaker: Yeah, not at all, despite I manage... Btw I did some updates
12:50:50 <planetmaker> And why most sets take years to develop
12:51:33 <planetmaker> VVG, convenient or not. It's different. It'd need a different network design approach probably
12:51:33 <norbert79> planetmaker: I see, well I am not planning on working on these for years, I want to create a roadmap based on the first experience of the first building
12:52:46 <norbert79> planetmaker: Mine will be a bit complicated at a point, where we cross the timedate 1990, since the first adverts start appearing on these condos, and from 1995 the first GSM Mobile network antennas, etc, so those will appear on them with time
12:53:09 <norbert79> planetmaker: But I want to make those randmozied
12:54:18 <norbert79> I want to create this first building with and without snow, including additional items, like GSM antenna sender/receiver and it's renewed look
12:56:45 <beyre83> norbert79: sounds like it will make for a very intresting building :)
12:56:52 <beyre83> if it changes with the timeline
12:57:33 <norbert79> Will try to accomplish that, at least the graphics will be there for those add-ons
12:57:39 <TomyLobo> [13:43:36] <Noldo> TomyLobo: the main issue is that the game knows nothing about the 3d models
12:58:02 <TomyLobo> however the game knows where to put certain models. the rest could be done by referencing external model files or something
12:59:04 <planetmaker> norbert79, I meant it takes real life years to create a good set
12:59:11 <planetmaker> not that you span a few or many years ingame
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13:00:36 <planetmaker> norbert79, and I fear... if you don't continue yourself...
13:01:31 <norbert79> planetmaker: I know, but I want to create at least the hungarian building set, this will be also a good lesson for me too
13:03:13 <beyre83> well i am glad that people still wanna make new sets, as it makes the game more intresting to have diffrent graphics as then it never gets boring :)
13:03:49 <norbert79> beyre83: I always wished for some hungarian sets, but since they don't exist, and ideas are way too seperated/fragmented, it seems that I have to do it on my own :)
13:04:38 <beyre83> well sometimes norbert79 if you want sometrhing doing you have todo it your self
13:04:42 <beyre83> or it will never get done
13:05:11 <beyre83> norbert79: if i might ask you, are you from hungry/
13:05:19 <Belugas> words of wisdom, beyre83
13:05:22 <norbert79> Hungary more like :)
13:05:42 <beyre83> but i take it, that is a yes
13:05:49 <norbert79> Indeed, it is a yes
13:07:06 <beyre83> mmm i am gunna buy my heating system from hungry :)
13:07:45 <norbert79> beyre83: Don't forget, that you still have to pay for the delivery as well, and if you live outside the EU there is an additional tax present as well
13:07:50 <beyre83> because well its 60% cheeper for the samr thing :)
13:08:05 <beyre83> but i can get it for 3000gbp
13:08:12 <norbert79> beyre83: Are you within EU or outside? Ah, It's ok then, yet maybe the delivery might cost you
13:08:37 <beyre83> if i bought from my country
13:08:58 <beyre83> so where you gunna buy it from
13:09:47 <beyre83> kinda sounds expensive in your currency
13:10:40 <beyre83> <---- British but moving to estonia
13:10:49 <beyre83> so either place i am in the eu :)
13:11:15 <beyre83> tho i must admit Google Translate sucks
13:11:21 <beyre83> at translateing webpages
13:12:50 <__ln__> what's interesting in estonia besides cheap land?
13:16:14 <norbert79> __ln__: Nice surroundings
13:17:18 <norbert79> Never been there, but I guess it's similar to Hungary, since being a former east block country too
13:19:19 <norbert79> Wow, only around 1.3 million inhabitants...
13:19:39 <norbert79> I thought you guys were more
13:20:06 <__ln__> only around half of them russian-speaking
13:21:39 <norbert79> __ln__: We used to had Russian also a must in elementary school, but this got changed in 1989 back then... I could start with German
13:23:05 <beyre83> i know a little german
13:23:23 <beyre83> and yes half of estonian's population is russians
13:24:14 <beyre83> and norbert79 compaired to england, estonia is a beautifull country
13:24:37 <beyre83> over priced rip off country
13:24:59 <norbert79> That's a bit vague, don't you think? I was in England, and I have found it pretty pleasent
13:25:21 <norbert79> Comparing one country to another isn't a very wise think in my opinion
13:25:45 <norbert79> loved the area, and I was alos visitng the D-Day museum... Ouch, come on, that's not true!
13:25:45 <beyre83> i am about 30miles from portsmouth
13:25:49 <beyre83> on the south east coast
13:26:07 <beyre83> well norbert79 its intresting for visiters sure
13:26:19 <beyre83> but if you have lived here for 27yrs you get fed up of it
13:26:36 <beyre83> house prices are sooooooooo over the top
13:26:48 <norbert79> Well, what I know for sure, that I was never afraid of any challenge in my life... So is in the Czech Republic recently
13:27:04 <beyre83> cant get a house for less than 210000 euros
13:27:28 <norbert79> Well, I am fine with my flat too, wondering why I have started the GRF Pack I am working on? ;-)
13:27:51 <beyre83> i bet your flat is nice but i doubt its very expensive
13:27:56 <norbert79> and it's not that easy to get a house over here neither
13:28:11 <beyre83> how much is your flat worth/
13:28:17 <beyre83> if you dont mind me asking
13:28:23 <norbert79> beyre83: Compared to what? And don't forget, you earn the 5x 10x of my pay I bet :)
13:28:38 <beyre83> doubtfull unemployed at the moment
13:28:54 <norbert79> What did you for living?
13:29:02 <norbert79> before you got unemployed
13:29:07 <beyre83> but people cant afford to get the work done
13:29:17 <beyre83> so there isnt a call for my work
13:29:27 <norbert79> beyre83: Why don't you move back home?
13:29:43 <beyre83> thats where the problem is
13:29:46 <SmatZ> it's cheaper to throw things away and buy new instead of trying to fix them
13:30:13 <norbert79> SmatZ: Yeah, this is the new trend recently, which I also don't really sympatize with
13:30:21 <beyre83> my plot of land cost around 2564euros
13:30:47 <beyre83> now you cant even buy a garage in england for that
13:30:57 <norbert79> SmatZ: East or West Germany?
13:31:08 <beyre83> yea i bought a plot of land in estonia :)
13:31:15 <beyre83> as thats where i plan to move to
13:31:16 <SmatZ> norbert79: I am not German, I am Czech
13:31:20 <__ln__> norbert79: those two reintegrated 20 years ago
13:31:26 <norbert79> SmatZ: Damn hostnames :D
13:31:47 <beyre83> who drinks coca cola?
13:31:53 <Eddi|zuHause> norbert79: it's a bouncer :)
13:32:09 <norbert79> Eddi|zuHause: Yeah, thought so, yet in your case it's almost obvious :D
13:33:02 <beyre83> for example in most of europe you can buy a 2x 2ltr bottles of coca cola, for the same price it costs in england for 1 2ltr bottle
13:33:10 <beyre83> like i said rip off england
13:33:11 <Nite> ... at least everyone has drunk coke once ...
13:33:32 <norbert79> oh my I almost referred to something else on 'coke' :D
13:34:02 <beyre83> tho norbert79 you never did answer my question on your flat?
13:34:06 <beyre83> as in how much it is worth
13:35:23 <beyre83> idd guess at not more than 22000euros
13:35:42 <norbert79> beyre83: I won't tell you mine, but nromal flats starts here at 35m2 at 24,500 €, normals are around 28.000-30.000 and the most expensive ones are at 55 m2 35.500 €
13:35:46 <Eddi|zuHause> "socialistic" flats aren't that expensive, at least around here...
13:36:08 <norbert79> depends in which area you live in, at least this is my surroundings
13:36:09 <beyre83> well ok see i wasnt far off
13:36:20 <norbert79> Capital, Budapest is much more expensive
13:36:58 <norbert79> yeah, but the minimum wage here is 265 €, normal pays are around 500-550 €
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13:37:24 <Nite> at about 35 k € you get a 20 m² hole here ...
13:37:36 <beyre83> try around 66,000 132,000+ euros for flats here
13:37:45 <beyre83> i could own a string of them in your country
13:37:49 <beyre83> for the cost of one here
13:37:50 <norbert79> and what about the wages?
13:38:04 <Nite> 80 K € for something you can live in ...
13:38:18 <beyre83> minimum wage is 6.43euros per hour
13:38:27 <norbert79> ok let me calculate that
13:38:46 <norbert79> around 1100 € each month
13:38:59 <norbert79> Double of the normal pays over here
13:39:17 <beyre83> tho if your on goverment benefits whilst out of work you get paid 9.82euros per day
13:39:20 <norbert79> food costs around 1.2-1.5 more in England, I have already experienced that
13:39:21 <beyre83> thats per day not hour
13:39:32 <Nite> its 400 for ok - to 700 for nice here ...
13:39:50 <beyre83> you try and live on 9euros per day
13:40:03 <norbert79> beyre83: If you are unemployed, you get around 100 € each month from the govemrnet but thats also for a very limited time
13:40:15 <norbert79> 3 months to 6 months, maximum
13:40:22 <Nite> well you could have one nice meal eery day and nothing else ;)
13:40:46 <beyre83> you get 286euros a month here
13:40:56 <beyre83> if on goverment benefit
13:41:01 <norbert79> almost the third time of ours :)
13:41:09 <Nite> phew 700+ here ... if you admit to act as slave
13:41:09 <norbert79> tthree times more I mean
13:41:30 <beyre83> yea but the costs are 3* more
13:41:41 <beyre83> you certainly could not live on that pittance here
13:41:43 <norbert79> So if you start comparing flkat prices don't forget to compare the prices and wages for everyday living
13:41:46 <beyre83> might feed you 1 meal
13:42:22 <beyre83> but norbet even with food prices and living expensis compaird eastern european countrys are still cheeper
13:42:28 <Nite> so thats what tehy give oyu for free everyhwere "one meal" a day ?
13:42:33 <beyre83> even if there wages are lower
13:43:01 <beyre83> i am lucky i can still live at home with me mum and dad at the moment
13:43:10 <norbert79> beyre83: You always forget to think about surroundings, wages, food prices and possibilities... If you want to compare two things, like two coutnries, don't forget these factors netiher
13:43:26 <beyre83> i dont norbert but as i said
13:43:34 <beyre83> our prices are still higher
13:43:40 <__ln__> beyre83: do you speak estonian yet?
13:44:02 <beyre83> but this is a english only channel so i cant demo my skills
13:44:07 <norbert79> Like for example I could get an original CD for 10 punds in England, where it costs us almost the double for new releases, so compared to this England is half the expensive? :)
13:44:28 <beyre83> well maybe i noticed electronics are around the same cost
13:44:43 <beyre83> but food is cheeper in eastern euro countrys
13:44:49 <__ln__> beyre83: any language is ok if you enclose it in quotes ... (i take no responsibility for this piece of advice)
13:44:49 <Nite> do ppl buy discs anymore here - ahem noo ...
13:44:53 <norbert79> What is the price of one litre or one gallon of petrol in England?
13:45:10 <norbert79> Nite: I still do for some releases/bands
13:45:12 <beyre83> a loaf of bread is 88euros for the cheepest
13:45:29 <norbert79> It is a typo, right?
13:45:31 <Hirundo> must be gold-plated, then
13:45:33 <beyre83> 1ltr of petrol is 1.32euros
13:45:43 <Nite> wee do for some special dvd's ...
13:45:46 <norbert79> beyre83: Ook, let me calculate our prices
13:46:18 <beyre83> deisel is 1.43euros per liter
13:46:19 <SmatZ> I would trust that 1.32 :)
13:46:29 <norbert79> beyre83: It's 1.22 € for one litre of petrol over here
13:46:37 <Nite> almost exactl 1€ per liter diesel here
13:47:09 <beyre83> its 0.88euros per liter of petrol in estonia
13:47:18 <norbert79> so fuel prices aren't so far off from the english ones
13:47:23 <beyre83> around the same for deisel
13:47:37 <beyre83> ahh but norbert we have road tax to pay
13:47:52 <norbert79> beyre83: So same again still :)
13:47:57 <beyre83> my car costs 209euros poer year
13:48:16 <beyre83> then it has to have a mot road worthy test every year
13:48:28 <Nite> teh unsurance for ma car costs 2000 € per year ! here
13:48:29 <beyre83> kinda makes it very expensive
13:48:49 <beyre83> least in estonia there is no road tax
13:48:55 <Nite> the insurence for a human body only 1000 € (!)
13:48:58 <beyre83> just a roadworthy check and insureance
13:49:26 <Nite> (both under 200 or under 1000)
13:49:30 <norbert79> ook, I have to pay yearly 50 € tax, 145 € for insurance, required by the goverment, 165 € CASCO
13:49:44 <__ln__> Nite: you get a new body paid by the insurance company if the original one is damaged?
13:49:55 <norbert79> 360 € per year for my car and I haven't calculated the petrol
13:50:03 <beyre83> brings a new name to the word "bodyshop"
13:50:08 <Nite> yes pretty much, it covers all but teeth
13:50:36 <norbert79> beyre83: My 360 compared to your 209 is much worse, and I haven't moved my car yet :)
13:50:51 <beyre83> that was only road tax
13:51:03 <beyre83> the total bill is 907.5euros
13:51:14 <norbert79> oh, our road tax is built in the petrol's tax,. and additional fees apply to roadways
13:51:17 <Nite> norbert oyur insurance prices are monthly ?
13:51:43 <beyre83> we pay high tax on fuel, and then have to pay for a tax disc ontop
13:51:59 <beyre83> and my car takes 70ltrs
13:52:15 <norbert79> Nite: Let me remind you I drive an old Suzuki Swift 1.3, built in 2000... So it's a small car, like the Geo
13:52:31 <Nite> well cant compare that in weeks ;)
13:52:42 <beyre83> so if i calculate a years running costs with fuel for a whole year 3000euros
13:52:50 <norbert79> It eats a lot in town, but outside town it's fairly ok
13:52:50 <Nite> i need 5 lt diesel on 100 kilometers ...
13:53:10 <norbert79> I need 5.5-6 outside town per 100km, and 8-9 witner time
13:53:11 <Nite> nothing has changed there since year 2000
13:53:20 <beyre83> drives a 1.9tdi ford galaxy 7 seater
13:53:34 <norbert79> beyre83: Hehhehh, now who is complaining? :)
13:53:44 <norbert79> I on the other hand have at least a small car :)
13:53:58 <beyre83> i need a large car to fit in all my work tools
13:54:03 <beyre83> at least when i was working
13:54:11 <Nite> wow swollowing in winter ... i dont have that its about 0.2 liters more in winter
13:54:28 <norbert79> Nite: Yeah, it sucks a lot, literally :D
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13:55:00 <beyre83> how cold does it get in winter there norbert79
13:55:08 <Nite> i ownder how long the individual transport will last at all ...
13:56:04 <norbert79> beyre83: Last year it was the coldest, we had every day 10-30 cm of snow, and we had -10 to -25 Celsius lastyear for a month
13:56:18 <beyre83> wow not that cold then
13:56:40 <beyre83> compaired to estonia, its around -25 - 32c most of winter thats november - feb
13:56:48 <norbert79> Nite: Surprisngly not at all
13:56:59 <norbert79> Nite: I had only once an issue with it, but thats because of my fault
13:57:17 <Nite> i drove it it shaked around so much we had to lough
13:57:33 <norbert79> Nite: Works ll the time... Only problem is the thickness of the bodywork, it's realtively thin, so it's not the safest one
13:57:37 <beyre83> Nite: where you from again?
13:57:56 <beyre83> well norbert dont crash then
13:58:03 <norbert79> Nite: Yet it accelaretes well, helped me through some very exciting moments :D
13:58:14 <norbert79> beyre83: Not planning doing so :D
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13:58:35 <__ln__> beyre83: do you have some statistical data to support your claim about -25 to -32 celsius?
13:59:10 <beyre83> but you should know estonia is next to russia
13:59:22 <norbert79> beyre83: Yet still not that close to Siberia ;-))
13:59:23 <__ln__> you should know that russia is a BIG country
14:00:29 <norbert79> we had the worst winter, the most rain this year, the hottest summer, and now again we had rains for a week, now it has calmed down so far
14:00:35 <__ln__> beyre83: you should also know that estonia is on the coast, which tends to keep the temperature higher.
14:01:23 <beyre83> well Estonia −43.5 °C (−46.0 °F) Jõgeva, Jõgeva County 1940-01-17[22]
14:01:45 <beyre83> ok it was a long time ago
14:01:48 <norbert79> Talk about last winter
14:01:56 <beyre83> i am trying to find that data
14:01:56 <norbert79> we also had days with -30
14:02:49 <Eddi|zuHause> the number -46.0°F is "funny"... because mr. Farenheit lived in Königsberg, which is not THAT far from estonia, and he defined 0°F as the coldest winter he could find...
14:03:25 <beyre83> think that contains last years data
14:03:41 <beyre83> for a city in estonia
14:03:50 <TomyLobo> Eddi|zuHause now the question is, why did he use such a silly, arbitrary basis
14:04:20 <Eddi|zuHause> TomyLobo: why not?
14:04:33 <norbert79> beyre83: Thats generic to Hungary too, nothing serious, don't consider records, we also had records every year :)
14:04:39 <norbert79> beyre83: Like the worst flooding
14:04:47 <norbert79> but thats not common, thats special, extraordanary
14:05:08 <norbert79> But not common at all
14:05:13 <Eddi|zuHause> TomyLobo: it's not that much more arbitrary than taking freezing and boiling point of an arbitrary liquid
14:05:16 <beyre83> well it was that cold last year
14:05:28 <beyre83> and they had a very hot summer
14:05:32 <TomyLobo> of an everyday liquid which everyone knows
14:05:36 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, that definition of the zero point of the Fahrenheit scale is not correct, nor was it when it was invented
14:05:56 <planetmaker> it was a cold bath he created with a specific mixture of constituents
14:05:57 <norbert79> beyre83: Well, thats chilly here :D We had 41-42 during daytime, and 25 during night for July
14:06:04 <planetmaker> a kind of eutectic melt
14:06:14 <beyre83> well i am glad i was not there
14:06:19 <TomyLobo> people dont tend to experience freezing and boiling water more often than extreme winters :)
14:06:25 <beyre83> to it did peak to 35-37 on a few days
14:07:02 <norbert79> beyre83: Yet I must repeat myself: it was the hottest summer so far
14:07:18 <beyre83> mmm and i was cutting down large trees with a chainsaw
14:07:44 <norbert79> Well, guys, have to leave for now, see you then!
14:07:48 *** norbert79 has left #openttd
14:08:01 <beyre83> anyone cut down trees? with a chainsaw?
14:08:49 * __ln__ checks whether this is #openttd
14:09:06 * planetmaker hands __ln__ a magnifying glass
14:09:08 <TomyLobo> oh crap, the 96F point is really arbitrary
14:09:16 <TomyLobo> body temperature of his wife
14:09:21 * beyre83 dosnt state in the topic open ttd chat only
14:09:39 <beyre83> just says english only
14:10:21 <Eddi|zuHause> almost none of the people here are english, so they are violating the rules!
14:10:39 <__ln__> indeed, only englishmen should be allowed
14:11:04 * TomyLobo gets a tall hat and a monocle
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14:12:10 <TomyLobo> aussies are cool. you're all just criminal englishmen anyway
14:12:40 <roboboy> My Mum is English but my Dad is Italian
14:13:08 <roboboy> so how can I be a criminal Englishman?
14:14:04 <beyre83> well england sent its prisioners to australia
14:14:32 <roboboy> but that was a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time ago well before my Mum
14:14:48 <beyre83> but your mum will be a decendant
14:15:26 <Eddi|zuHause> beyre83: how can she, when she was born in england, and england had no prisoners anymore?
14:15:42 <beyre83> she was born in england
14:15:46 <Eddi|zuHause> he said the mother was english
14:15:50 <beyre83> she just said she was english
14:15:54 <Eddi|zuHause> as in born in england
14:16:05 <beyre83> all oz's speak english
14:16:42 <Eddi|zuHause> "be english" != "speak english"
14:17:06 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, i'm gone
14:17:49 <beyre83> then there were SmatZ and Nite left
14:18:48 <beyre83> roboboy: was your mum born in oz?
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14:19:16 <beyre83> i missunderstood you :p
14:19:46 * roboboy thinks beyre83 intentionally misinterpereted him
14:20:03 * beyre83 miss placed my glasses :p
14:20:13 <beyre83> blind as a bat with out them
14:20:36 <roboboy> or should I say gmorning
14:20:55 <roboboy> since it's gone midnight
14:22:26 <planetmaker> sleep well, roboboy
14:28:33 <BCMM> what causes industry closure? do they just time out after a certain number of years, or does it happen due to not serving them well enough?
14:29:41 <TomyLobo> you cant keep them from closing, but you can delay it by serving them well
14:32:04 <TomyLobo> [The Fahrenheit scale] is still in use in few nations, such as United States and Belize.
14:32:11 <TomyLobo> i love things like that :)
14:32:49 <TomyLobo> the USA share their units basically only with 3rd world countries
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14:33:09 <TomyLobo> but enough about fahrenheit now :)
14:34:26 <planetmaker> BCMM, service them well and they won't close down. This only applies to default industries. If you have newgrfs which provide industries anything may be true
14:34:36 <planetmaker> read the readme of concern then
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14:39:15 <TruePikachu> ^^ forgot, and typo
14:43:33 <Belugas> TomyLobo, officially, people in canada do not use fahrenheit either, bt the use of it is still in place
14:43:43 <Belugas> old habits take a long time to die
14:44:04 <TomyLobo> sure, but it's at least not official policy :)
14:44:17 <Belugas> plus, since we're dealing a lot with the USA, i guess it has to stay for comodity reasons
14:48:39 <TomyLobo> stop buying your thermometers in the us then :)
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15:52:17 <DorpsGek> glx: topic [<channel>]
15:52:26 <tHOMIEs> soory I need some help
15:52:27 <DorpsGek> glx: topic [<channel>]
15:52:46 <Rubidium> glx: you're failing somehow :)
15:52:49 <DorpsGek> glx: Don't ask to ask, just ask
15:53:28 <tHOMIEs> when i try too download the new open ttd 1.0.3 there is no openttd.app in the file
15:53:53 <glx> we don't provide OSX builds
15:54:28 <Rubidium> 1.0.1 is not from us
15:54:34 <dihedral> <__ln__> no thanks, i'm fine <-LOL :-)
15:55:57 <Rubidium> another happy customer?
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15:56:30 <tHOMIEs> thats weird i was sure i always used your version
15:56:36 <Rubidium> Belugas: that's not the topic I hoped you would link to
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15:57:31 <Belugas> i was looking for it, Rubidium :)
15:57:34 <tHOMIEs> so if i want the newest version for my mac where should i go?
15:57:53 <Rubidium> to the wiki "how to compile on Mac OS X" page and compile it yourself
15:57:55 <dihedral> the newest official version?
15:58:33 <Rubidium> there's no official Mac OS X support as described/announced in the forum thread I just linked to
16:02:13 <dihedral> could have given him a pre 1.0 release :-P
16:04:33 <Rubidium> dihedral: that unsupport pile of bugs?
16:05:04 <beyre83> Rubidium: i do declair you pissed tHOMIEs off
16:05:24 <Rubidium> I counter declare that it's Bjarni's fault
16:05:46 <beyre83> tho it isnt hard to type .make in
16:05:47 <Belugas> he might has gone off simply because his network died
16:05:50 <Ammler> on the 20k party, half of the participants had a mac
16:05:55 <dihedral> beyre83, there are enough people who do not like Rubidium :-P
16:06:06 <dihedral> even if they don't know anything about it :-P
16:06:08 <beyre83> well should look at the Ban ip list
16:06:19 <beyre83> he is responsibull for banning most people
16:06:47 <dihedral> he is responsible for maintaining a lot, sir.
16:07:09 <dihedral> just because nobody does the job does not mean, the one doing the dirty work really is the bad egg
16:07:16 <dihedral> isn't that so Belugas ? :-P
16:07:21 <beyre83> i never said they were
16:07:53 <Rubidium> yup, I'm definitely an arsehole
16:08:04 <beyre83> but if tHomies has a intel mac, he could run bootcamp
16:08:06 <Rubidium> all those features I don't backport to the stable release
16:08:09 <beyre83> and play from windows
16:08:17 <Rubidium> all those bugfixes I'm delaying till the next stable release
16:08:52 <planetmaker> beyre83: if he has an intel mac the easier choice is to just build it yourself
16:08:54 <Rubidium> all those bugfixes that I value higher than the pleasure of the minority that plays secretive tricks with OpenTTD
16:09:12 <beyre83> mm but that requires a knowledge of codeing :)
16:09:26 <Rubidium> and I'm definitely an arsehole for disabling the compilation of Mac OS X binaries
16:09:30 <beyre83> well it does if the sources are broken
16:09:36 <beyre83> and you have to fix em
16:09:45 <planetmaker> you usually don't
16:09:58 <Ammler> Rubidium: nobody using nightly anymore proves it :-)
16:10:25 <Rubidium> Ammler: we're just not packing enough fancy features in the nightlies
16:10:39 <planetmaker> yes. all features since 1.0 are worthless
16:10:48 <planetmaker> just the spleen of a few
16:11:06 <beyre83> still hasnt tried out the newest version yet
16:11:12 <planetmaker> I <3 them though :-)
16:11:23 <Ammler> there is no 1.1 needed next year, if it continues that way :-P
16:11:25 <planetmaker> beyre83: what is 'newest'?
16:11:31 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20803 /branches/1.0/ (Makefile.grf.in Makefile.in):
16:11:31 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: [1.0] -Backport from trunk:
16:11:31 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Change: Move removal of bin/data/opentt[dw].grf from distclean to maintainer-clean (r20752)
16:11:31 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: Recent NFORenum does not know '-?' (r20715)
16:11:42 <Belugas> Rubidium, i'm even meaner than you, i reject lots of bogus bug reports and deny a lot of feature requests :)
16:11:50 <beyre83> well planetmaker i havent used ottd since 0.3.5/0.3.6
16:11:53 <Belugas> and i kicked a few butt heads as well
16:11:56 <beyre83> so anything after that is new :p
16:12:26 <planetmaker> anything before 1.0.0 is old. anything before 0.7.0 ancient
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16:13:08 <planetmaker> interesting list you have there concerning newgrf collisions, Rubidium
16:13:12 <Rubidium> arguably 1.0.4 is newest!
16:13:48 <beyre83> oh __ln__ Assuming "winter" is referring to a calendar computation
16:16:03 <beyre83> and its not counting november and december
16:16:37 <beyre83> not really valid stats
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16:17:41 <beyre83> well i guess planetmaker that makes me ancient :)
16:18:07 <planetmaker> more fossil-like :-P
16:19:35 <beyre83> i ran a irc server for ottd, back in 2004/2005 but i had to stop doing it as of time commitments :)
16:20:10 <Belugas> somebody's digging my bones
16:21:29 <beyre83> Belugas: that isnt a type of dinosaur :p
16:21:30 <Belugas> T-rex was a good band, not really in my veins
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16:22:34 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20804 /branches/1.0/ (6 files in 4 dirs): [1.0] -Prepare: for 1.0.4
16:23:08 <planetmaker> looks like a new newest ;-)
16:25:22 <beyre83> are ottd irc servers co-lo these days?
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16:26:29 * Rubidium sniffs... no servers using 1.0.4 yet :(
16:26:29 <Timmaexx> Yeah, we can enjoy the birth of a new release :D
16:26:35 <planetmaker> what is an "ottd-irc"-server?
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16:28:34 <planetmaker> Rubidium: maybe because svn sw svn://svn.openttd.org/tags/1.0.4 doesn't work yet?
16:29:43 <Timmaexx> When will the first "maverik" ubuntu 10.10 .deb's arrive?
16:31:40 <planetmaker> svn: Target path '/tags/1.0.4' does not exist :-(
16:32:55 <Rubidium> Timmaexx: with 1.0.5?
16:33:11 <Timmaexx> Thank you for the info!
16:33:52 <Rubidium> don't fancy targetting Ubuntu unstable due to the amount of flux in there, even when they're somewhat frozen
16:34:06 <Rubidium> planetmaker: works for me
16:34:13 <Timmaexx> is it shure, there will be a 1.0.5 or is the focus on 1.1.0?
16:34:16 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20805 /tags/1.0.4/ (9 files in 4 dirs): -Release: 1.0.4
16:34:48 <avdg> now waiting for the compile :)
16:35:00 <Rubidium> Timmaexx: now... go to Ubuntu's bugtracker and request it to be included into Maverick :)
16:35:11 <Rubidium> or whatever it's called
16:35:27 <Timmaexx> They will not include it because package frozen has been for long
16:35:53 <Timmaexx> it will come to 11.04 if I am right informed
16:36:05 <planetmaker> which will be outdated by then ;-)
16:36:20 <Rubidium> 1.0.0 got into into 10.04, so why 1.0.4 not into 10.10?
16:36:30 <Timmaexx> Yeah, thats everytime the problem with those freezes
16:36:58 <planetmaker> wow. I didn't know we had unstoppable fun with 1.0.3
16:37:10 <planetmaker> I hope we'll have something better than even with 1.0.4
16:38:10 <Timmaexx> feature freeze was two days before this date....
16:39:26 <Rubidium> Timmaexx: good luck finding new features in the changelog for 1.0.4
16:39:51 <Timmaexx> but security bugfixes?
16:41:06 <Belugas> looks like either construction of a pipeline or an electric power line
16:41:40 <Rubidium> Timmaexx: if you look hard enough and stretch "security bugfixes" far enough, then possibly
16:42:38 <__ln__> Belugas: ok... asking you because i took that photo more or less in quebecian airspace
16:43:02 <Timmaexx> Well most Multiplayerservers will update/upgrade to 1.0.4 and in 1.0.3 will be less ones
16:46:02 <__ln__> now that i was able to find such stripes on google maps, it does seem power line is a plausible answer
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16:48:20 <dihedral> source code has support for custom client netlang settings?
16:49:16 <Rubidium> dihedral: yes, in the same way you can get a T-Ford in any colour you want as long as its black
16:49:49 <Belugas> __ln__ : then, power line is REALLY possible
16:49:58 <Belugas> we have a huge network in here
16:50:23 <Belugas> feeding some us states as well as other provinces nearby
16:51:52 <Belugas> where were yu heading to?
16:51:53 <dihedral> network_client.cpp:152 p->Send_uint8 (NETLANG_ANY); // Language
16:51:57 <dihedral> just find that odd then :-P
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16:52:14 <dihedral> but i guess that's the black you want :-P
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16:54:23 <uros> hey .. is possible to see what planes i can buy without buying airport first ?
16:55:43 <__ln__> Belugas: heading for new york (newark), (then continuing to san francisco)
16:56:11 <Rubidium> -> vehicle list -> available vehicles
16:56:29 <__ln__> i will visit canada at a lower altitude some day :)
17:02:16 <Belugas> you'll be welcome to stay in :)
17:03:53 <Timmaexx> How long does the sync between the mirrors doing?
17:15:32 <dihedral> Belugas, he'll correct your english all the time :-P
17:16:28 <Ammler> they would parlez français
17:17:47 <frosch123> dihedral: according to a lot of movies canadian forests are filled with psychopaths
17:18:45 <Belugas> i'm sure that my writing is far worse than my verbal english ;)
17:18:58 <Belugas> who knows who will correct who ^_^
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17:27:29 <beyre83> most forests are filled with psycopaths
17:28:03 *** thvdburgt has joined #openttd
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17:32:45 <Belugas> rather see psychopaths in forests than in towns ;)
17:33:25 <Ammler> and you hunt them with your camera?
17:36:23 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +o Yexo
17:36:38 *** Yexo changes topic to "1.0.4 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | English only"
17:45:22 <planetmaker> so... have we been fast enough? ;-)
17:46:56 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r20806 /trunk/src/lang/ (catalan.txt unfinished/thai.txt):
17:46:56 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:46:56 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: catalan - 1 changes by arnau
17:46:56 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: thai - 12 changes by kenny
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17:47:24 <planetmaker> with the server :-)
17:48:22 <Rubidium> ah, yes... you're the top server! :)
17:48:34 <dihedral> i wonder how long the luukland servers will need to upgrade :-P
17:50:33 <dihedral> SpComb, your bot's down
17:50:44 <Belugas> i only chase beauties, with my camera. even more when they are on bikini, Ammler :)
17:51:28 <Ammler> hmm, isn't there always winter in Canada :-P
17:55:11 <Belugas> ho lord no.. please... i'd have left th country by now!
17:55:53 <glx> 11 cold months are enough ;)
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17:56:17 <Belugas> and no, indians are not wearing feathers and chasing their meals with bows and arrows and spears!
17:57:35 <Rubidium> Ammler: my trips abroad seem to show that the colder the shorter the skirt. In Hokkaido the (school) girls were wearing mini-skirts while it was freezing, in Tokyo the skirts stopped above the knee and in Nagasaki the skirts stopped below the knee
17:58:03 <glx> Rubidium: but they are forced to do that
17:58:15 <Belugas> and in canada, they are not wearing skirts
17:58:42 <orudge> in Scotland, of course, the kilt is popular, despite the weather never being great
17:59:16 <Prof_Frink> Canada: Who would have thought a cross between the USA and France would be so awesome?
17:59:21 <Rubidium> Belugas: still, it shows that the temperature doesn't say much about the length of clothes, or rather that the inverse might be true (those long dresses used in hot deserts)
17:59:26 <Ammler> well, we had almost no summer here :-(
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18:00:07 <Ammler> Rubidium: he, true :-)
18:00:56 <dihedral> <orudge> in Scotland, of course, the kilt is popular, despite the weather never being great <- they are talking about girls!
18:01:13 <Belugas> right that, Rubidium :)
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18:01:27 <Rubidium> so maybe Belugas lives north enough that the length of the skirt becomes negative
18:01:31 <orudge> dihedral: well, yes. But the point is, in Scotland, wearing a skirt is so popular even the men are doing it ;)
18:01:50 <dihedral> orudge, so you like men in short skirts? :-P
18:01:57 <orudge> it's not my own cup of tea
18:02:28 <dihedral> some girls are not my cup either :-P
18:04:47 <dihedral> monit might help keep it up :-P
18:05:18 <SpComb> no, the whole server kind of crashed
18:05:23 <SpComb> so I gutted it and restarted the userland
18:05:37 <SpComb> that handled all the /etc/init.d/ stuff, but not cron's @reboot
18:10:47 <Ammler> [20:01] <Rubidium> so maybe Belugas lives north enough that the length of the skirt becomes negative <-- LOL
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18:19:01 <dihedral> negative might really look odd
18:28:00 <Rubidium> those engines and wagons are unrealistically too long
18:28:17 <Rubidium> the distance between tracks seems about right though
18:28:31 <andythenorth> also the corners are too smooth
18:28:42 <andythenorth> can't be real OTTD, must be a photoshop fake :P
18:28:50 <andythenorth> nice to see them using opengfx shores though
18:29:05 <andythenorth> the transmitter looks a bit different?
18:29:09 <andythenorth> has someone redrawn it
18:29:21 <Rubidium> SAC's newobjects light thing?
18:29:48 <andythenorth> they've used some ISR tiles bottom left
18:30:16 <Wolf01> how did you get the water to reflect the sky?
18:30:21 <andythenorth> the football pitch sprites have been changed to a baseball pitch?
18:30:32 <andythenorth> what bridge set is that?
18:32:10 <Ammler> too many trees, old game
18:32:14 <Wolf01> uhm.. there has ever been a sky on ottd?
18:33:55 <Rubidium> there a plenty of limits and the sky is the limit, so yes, there must be sky in OpenTTD
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19:02:39 <planetmaker> apropos... as this CF compiles also the TTDP nightlies: should the DOS nightly patch the DOS version?
19:02:58 <planetmaker> When I use that on a working and running TTD install inside dosbox, it won't start afterwards anymore
19:03:44 <planetmaker> or asked differently: should it turn into a windows application?
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19:05:53 <frosch123> no, dos ttdp is for dos ttd in dos
19:06:21 <frosch123> i also ran it in dosbox, though not recently
19:06:22 <planetmaker> or I somehow seem to have the wrong dos ttd version
19:06:57 <frosch123> somewhen dos ttdp was broken, but iirc dalestan returned for one night and fixed it
19:07:48 <planetmaker> hm... I get an OOM error...
19:07:51 <SmatZ> frosch123: does it mean the problem reported ^^^ is fixed nowadays?
19:08:10 <frosch123> one of the problem was fixed, not sure whether all
19:08:22 <frosch123> planetmaker: you have to set the low memory switch for the dos version or so
19:08:27 <Lakie> I remember DaleStan said he had a go at "blind" fixing it.
19:08:27 <SmatZ> planetmaker: OOM probably indicated dosbox error :p
19:09:06 <SmatZ> thanks, I should try if it works now :)
19:10:34 <planetmaker> the windows version fails in wine with registry errors for me. That's even more cryptic ;-)
19:11:02 <frosch123> the windows version requires some registry stuff
19:11:23 <Ammler> planetmaker: use the "howto" from our wiki
19:11:40 <SmatZ> planetmaker: you should run the installer from your original (tm) TTD for Windows CD-ROM
19:11:55 <frosch123> you can download some ttd registry tool from the ttdp site
19:12:25 <frosch123> a lot easier than dealing with the original installation thingie
19:12:25 <planetmaker> Well... I used the installer. And afterwards I got that registry error
19:13:24 <Ammler> ask at tt-ms.de how to install, mb will help ypu :-P
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19:17:45 <Noldo> hmm "In the cloud since 1985", how would you interpret that?
19:21:48 <planetmaker> "desperately craving for attention"
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19:28:51 <planetmaker> :S fantastic. Set 'fullscreen' in preferences of dosbox, try to start. Watch reboot. grrrrr
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19:32:51 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: how badly can you screw up dosbox?
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19:34:00 <SmatZ> planetmaker: dosbox killed your mac?
19:35:16 <SmatZ> mac is becoming windows-ish
19:35:30 <SmatZ> (jk, I had few crashes on linux too :)
19:35:43 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not... it would try to maintain backwards compatibility then...
19:36:25 <planetmaker> there's quite a difference IMHO between a crash and a severe interference with the host
19:36:50 <planetmaker> especially as it hasn't root priviliges
19:38:57 <andythenorth> Hirundo: ship patch works for me
19:39:54 <andythenorth> I haven't extended FISH to support it though :o
19:40:00 <andythenorth> I just tested with what there is
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19:44:41 <Muxy> Seen on #goulp: [21:43] <Fugas> IMPORTANT INFO: get your openttd 1.0.4 ready, next games will start on new version
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19:46:02 <andythenorth> Hirundo: I can't test with FISH
19:46:20 <andythenorth> I can't seem to suppress the renum warnings about 1C being an invalid property
19:46:28 <andythenorth> which means the makefile bails out
19:47:12 <Eddi|zuHause> you can set it to ignore warnings
19:48:28 <Eddi|zuHause> i just read "alpina"
19:48:56 <Eddi|zuHause> and thought "why the hell would you post a website about white colour?"
19:49:18 <SmatZ> the picture is mostly white ;)
19:49:46 <andythenorth> my uptime is 15 days
19:49:55 <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: mac people don'
19:49:56 <SmatZ> it looks really trustworthy
19:50:01 <Eddi|zuHause> t read mail really fast anymore?
19:50:05 <dihedral> my laptop's uptime used to usually hit 30 - 40 days
19:50:16 <dihedral> until i sudo rm -rf /'ed it
19:50:22 <SpComb> my laptop's uptime is 138 days!
19:50:23 <andythenorth> should I type rm -rf /*?
19:50:27 <SpComb> although that includes standby periods
19:50:43 <SpComb> or includes, or whatever, but a little iffy if you can count them as uptime
19:50:46 <SmatZ> andythenorth: you need to make yourself root first - it will make your MAC faster
19:51:04 <andythenorth> what does root have to do with the address on my NIC?
19:51:31 <SmatZ> or Mac or whatever is that spelled :)
19:51:39 <andythenorth> rm -rf /* is nearly a 10 year old joke on mac users
19:51:50 <andythenorth> it just never got a poster before :P
19:52:04 <andythenorth> there is at least one video on YT of someone doing it
19:52:30 <SmatZ> andythenorth: try this: :(){ :|:& };:
19:52:55 * andythenorth does not paste random commands into terminal without some idea of what they actually do :P
19:53:04 <Eddi|zuHause> i think it misses an & at the end
19:53:17 <planetmaker> looks like a fork bomb
19:53:17 <andythenorth> Hirundo: ship patch works with prop 1C for FISH
19:53:18 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: I think it's not needed
19:53:35 <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: you can ^C or ^Z it this way
19:53:47 <SmatZ> you have to be quick enough though
19:54:07 <Noldo> : could be replaces with something else propably
19:54:10 <Hirundo> andythenorth: I will add it to FS
19:54:17 <andythenorth> it is time for beer
19:54:25 <Eddi|zuHause> Noldo: the point is that it looks like a smilie
19:54:41 <dihedral> * SmatZ nomnoms <- LOL?
19:54:46 * dihedral pats SmatZ on the head
19:55:09 <Noldo> Eddi|zuHause: that makes sense
19:55:47 <Eddi|zuHause> "for one it is a forkbomb, for others it's the most evil smilie of the world"
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20:13:08 <Eddi|zuHause> # Tell me what you want to hear
20:13:09 <Eddi|zuHause> # Something that will light those ears
20:13:11 <Eddi|zuHause> # Sick of all the insincere
20:13:12 <Eddi|zuHause> # So I'm gonna give all my secrets away
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21:48:45 <KeithM> anything going on here?
21:50:31 <KeithM> was just wondering if anyone here had any experience with cargodist + "sprinkles"
21:50:50 <KeithM> I installed cargodist a long time ago, and love it!
21:51:29 <Chris_Booth> well you want someone to make you cargodist + sprinkles?
21:51:37 <Chris_Booth> or advise on how to make it?
21:51:43 <KeithM> I might be able to do it myself actually
21:51:50 <KeithM> but is the sprinkles any good?
21:52:12 <Chris_Booth> never used sprinkles
21:52:20 <Chris_Booth> check it as tt-forums
21:52:47 <KeithM> it might be fun to play the game in a more static worl
21:53:59 <Chris_Booth> well i am sure that you will be a first to compile cargodist + sprinkles
21:54:12 <Chris_Booth> you will have to tell how you get on
21:54:29 <KeithM> I thought sprinkles was intended to work with cargodist
21:54:45 <KeithM> but I remember from the first time installing cargodist it wasn;'t easy
22:00:02 <SpComb> someone's been too lazy to update it
22:00:42 <SpComb> sprinkles, it's a little stale
22:01:07 <KeithM> it's a combination of a couple of other patches, right?
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22:11:35 <KeithM> is the drastic change to the timetabling due to the patch or due to a newer trunk?
22:25:56 <Nite> is there a way to "stop time" in ottd - to stay in a year - mostly for (large) singelplayer maps
22:26:10 <luckz> SpComb: how would one go about compiling your sprinkle party, ie what compiler(s) work?
22:27:13 <Rubidium> Nite: yes, as long at it's the year 5 000 000 :)
22:27:40 <Rubidium> (or 2090 in a pretty old OpenTTD)
22:27:53 <Nite> oh i rather wanted to stop in 1960's
22:29:22 <Chris_Booth> Nite: you can sheat
22:29:30 <Chris_Booth> cheat and turn the year back
22:30:21 <Nite> ah i just saw that - very nice !
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22:38:50 <SpComb> luckz: standard OpenTTD procedure
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23:05:40 <Ammler> what is the advantage of building openttd.grf self, if it is still in the source?
23:06:12 <Eddi|zuHause> but some distributions insist on having everything built from source
23:09:12 <Rubidium> Ammler: maybe those patch packs start stopping requiring a number of grfs to exist somewhere? But instead include them in openttd.grf
23:09:16 <Ammler> but shouldn't the grf be removed and maybe supplied by a special downlaod "with grfs"
23:09:51 <Rubidium> also it's rather the other way around, what is the advantage of keeping openttd.grf: well, it's not adding a more of less unneeded dependency without adding much cost
23:10:06 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: why make it needlessly more complicated for 99.9% of all people?
23:10:55 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: this is for selber compiler only, currently it is rather confusing then easy
23:14:26 <Rubidium> how is it confusing? 99.9% uses MSVC anyways ;)
23:15:44 <Ammler> does it compare the files?
23:23:39 <Ammler> so for distro building, it is better to use without grf tools, if there is no such strict source rule
23:25:47 <Rubidium> openttd's grf doesn't use cropping or anything fancy that grfcodec wouldn't understand
23:26:20 <Rubidium> in case it fails it simply means that you're shipping a broken grfcodec
23:26:46 <Markk> Could you say "...and I am hoping to hear from you"?
23:26:54 <Rubidium> IIRC Debian's package building checks whether the files after build + cleaning are the same as before the build
23:30:20 <Ammler> hmm, a reason to reintroduce the grf tools packages :-)
23:30:40 <Rubidium> don't you need it for opengfx as well?
23:31:25 <Ammler> well, the suse guy made it that way
23:32:09 <Ammler> with currently ogfx it is an advantage, it wouldn't build anyway
23:33:08 <Belugas> [18:27] <Nite> oh i rather wanted to stop in 1960's <--- i would have rather chosen the 80s, or even the 70s... man...those were THE years!!
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23:35:46 <Ammler> hmm, the zip names differ on your mirror :-(
23:37:36 <Ammler> opengfx-0.3.0.zip - opengfx-0.3.0-all.zip
23:37:58 <Ammler> is that the only difference?
23:38:04 <Rubidium> that's to give them a "fancy" name
23:38:55 <Rubidium> no, we're also hosting sha1 and sha256 checksums
23:42:39 <Ammler> well, that is a serious issue imo, if you have a spec or whatever, you mostly depend on the names like %{name}-%{version}.zip or whatever
23:43:49 <Rubidium> that's just bollocks
23:44:15 <Rubidium> how can you both the binary and source package have the same name?
23:44:45 <Rubidium> .zip can be anything, also -all.zip
23:44:58 <Rubidium> it shouldn't matter at all for the spec
23:45:08 <Rubidium> or it's even more stupid than I expect it to be
23:45:59 <Ammler> Rubidium: it should be the same on binaries.openttd.org and bundles.openttdcoop.org, I didn't say, it is wrong
23:46:04 <Rubidium> or is it a problem that now you can't use both your "mirror" and our "mirrors"?
23:46:34 <Ammler> I guess, it can also be changed on the DevZone
23:46:49 <Rubidium> if you want/like it to show up on the page -something.extension is (sadly enough) needed for OpenTTD's website
23:47:42 <Ammler> I setup the spec with the names from devzone, but now, I liked to download the basesets from openttd.org as I get there the source.
23:51:32 <Ammler> the source has another name btw. opengfx-0.3.0-source.tar.gz
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continue to next day ⏵
