IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-09-13
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01:55:05 * TruePikachu is having a problem with OpenMSX
01:55:51 <TruePikachu> On the jukebox, it keeps just scrolling past each song
01:56:16 <TruePikachu> I have no idea as to what the problem is
01:58:03 <TruePikachu> I had just gotten MIDI properly set up on this computer (which took ages thanks to the EMU10k1 requiring asfxload to load in a specific SoundFont before it would work)
01:58:54 <TruePikachu> Then I load up OpenTTD to try to listen to it's music, and the jukebox just scrolls past each song without playing a single note
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03:32:29 <TruePikachu> If they are a spammer, why are they killed after join instead of after connect?
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04:23:11 <TruePikachu> ...what's with all the spammers?!
04:24:45 <TruePikachu> Anyone here who is not ignoring me? I'm having a problem with music in OpenTTD - it keeps scrolling past all of the tracks without playing any music in the first place
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06:13:40 <TruePikachu> I'm having a problem with music in OpenTTD - it keeps scrolling past all of the tracks without playing any music in the first place
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06:44:07 <TruePikachu> What is up with all these spammers?
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07:19:31 <TheUros> hey i have a few questions question about GRF ... i installed .. few grf sets ... and starrt play the game .. all worked fine unitl i need it an oil cariage wich was missing ... my question is .. different GRF sets can make a conflict with some other set ?
07:20:46 <TheUros> and . what GRF sets you ussualy use and why ? ...anyone know a good combination of GRF sets ?
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07:25:09 <Eddi|zuHause> TheUros: different grf sets may conflict, yes. but have you checked if you can refit a wagon to something else?
07:26:11 <TheUros> well ...i can't refit any carriage for oil .. and default one is missing
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07:27:47 <TheUros> anyway .. i corrected the problem with installing another train set
07:28:07 <TheUros> .. is there any good GRF combinations ?
07:29:29 <dihedral> google, search the forums, wiki....
07:30:45 <TheUros> i did .. and i found a lot of GRF sets ... but not good combos :)
07:31:46 <Eddi|zuHause> people choose grf sets for all different kinds of reasons...
07:32:12 <Eddi|zuHause> it's difficult to get a comprehensive answer to such a question
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07:32:48 <Eddi|zuHause> except for the basic rule: only use one grf of each kind (train, bus/truck/tram, aircraft, ship, industry, house)
07:33:08 <Eddi|zuHause> you can safely use multiple station sets
07:33:14 <TheUros> aha ... so is not a good idea to use two train sets for example
07:34:17 <TheUros> i tryed one alpha train set ..where oil carriage was missing .. alpha mean that isn't finished yet ?
07:34:43 <dihedral> wikipedia search: software alpha
07:36:09 <TheUros> is possible rto make backup of current installed sets ? .. if i want to have sam sets in another openttd installation .. can i just copy them or i have to install them ?
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07:38:53 <dihedral> TheUros, different config files?
07:39:51 <dihedral> else read the readme.txt file about where openttd looks for config / data / grfs and then have another wild guess :-P
07:39:56 <TheUros> what you mean ? .. i have an openttd installation on my ubuntu system .. i installed openttd on my laptop with windows 7 .. i want to have same GRF sets on both installation
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07:46:17 <planetmaker> TheUros: look for NewGRF pre-set
07:46:35 <planetmaker> it's found in the newgrf selection window
07:46:50 <planetmaker> you can save and load a selection of newgrf there
07:47:15 <planetmaker> no need to hand-edit any config files or alike
07:48:20 <Eddi|zuHause> TheUros: newgrfs and configuration are stored in "My Documents\Openttd" in windows, and "~/.openttd" on linux
07:48:48 <Eddi|zuHause> you can copy the content of one directory to the other, and you get the same configuration
07:49:35 <TheUros> aha thanx ... so i'll try just copy them ... should work
07:49:38 <Eddi|zuHause> or you can reuse the windows location on linux if you have the drives mounted, then you can start "openttd -g /path/to/windows/config" on linux, and reuse the windows stuff
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07:50:59 <TheUros> how often new openttd version arrives ?
07:54:17 <dihedral> the nightly build obviously nightly
07:54:32 <dihedral> the stable release.... i do not think there is a release cycle... but i could be wrong there
08:05:08 <planetmaker> once a year a major version, every few months a bug fix release
08:05:55 <planetmaker> otherwise: for me arrives a new version once a commit is done ;-)
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08:37:08 <TheUros> i have a station in the city with 4 platforms 7 tiles long ..... i tryed to add one more platform but i can't demolist one big building .. what options i have to do that ?
08:38:23 <dihedral> TheUros, search the fucking forums, the wiki, or google (with extra keyword 'openttd')
08:38:44 <dihedral> what do you want people in the channel to do? hand feed you every little tile?
08:39:26 <TheUros> i read a lot of forums .. but i like to ask here on irc .. so i don't need few hours for a respond like on forums
08:39:30 <dihedral> once you have done at least a little research of your own, feel free to ask, and mention what you have done so far to at least try to find an answer
08:39:49 <dihedral> you should SEARCH the forums!
08:39:55 <dihedral> it has that feature you know
08:40:00 <dihedral> and the wiki is full of useful hints also
08:40:20 <dihedral> there - you do not even have to enter the url in your browser anymore
08:40:29 <TheUros> ok i won't bug you anymore
08:40:55 <dihedral> the point is - first do something to find an answer yourself - then ask if you still fail
08:42:41 <Goulp> TheUros: Dynamite or Magic Buldoze
08:44:12 <Eddi|zuHause> TheUros: likely you need to check on the town rating
08:46:08 <TheUros> well my rating is good .. i can remove roads and small houses .. but i can't remove big buildings .. it's even possible to have so high rating to be allowed to destroy any building you like ?
08:46:44 <dihedral> i.e. remove a church will hurt your rating plenty
08:46:57 <Goulp> TheUros: Magic Buldoze then, only in local games
08:46:58 <dihedral> not a building you would want to remove last
08:47:06 <TheUros> so it takes time to demolish all building i need ...
08:47:36 <Eddi|zuHause> TheUros: some newgrf houses may be unremovable
08:47:40 <Goulp> TheUros: then plan your developpement with buying land at begining of game
09:00:07 <planetmaker> still, the magic bulldozer should be able to solve that. If all things fail: you can - in single player - load the game in the scenario editor, remove that, and continue playing afterwards.
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10:18:09 * Rubidium wonders how long it takes until the patchpacks set that default to "allow"
10:25:28 <dihedral> paste.openttd.org down?
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10:28:12 <Yexo> <dihedral> paste.openttd.org down? <- for several months already
10:29:09 <dihedral> alternative is any or something subdomainish like openttd.pastebin.com
10:29:32 <dihedral> you could cname to pastebin.com :-P
10:30:18 <peter1138> I always used it because it was much faster than these other pastebins...
10:31:09 <dihedral> should have linked it to openttd.org user accounts :-P
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10:35:52 <planetmaker> yes... it was nice.
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10:58:04 <norbert79> Guys, good afternoon/good morning. What is the official name of the viewmode, what OpenTTD uses? Ortogonal view?
10:59:10 <norbert79> Isometric, thank you
10:59:16 <norbert79> It was driving me crazy :)
10:59:22 <norbert79> couldn't remember the word
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11:00:13 <peter1138> It's just dimetric projection.
11:00:49 <peter1138> Assuming the pixels are square, anyway.
11:02:11 <norbert79> Yeah, kinda between isometric and dimetric... But I will use dimetric
11:02:42 <peter1138> Isometric is always 120°
11:03:05 <peter1138> In dimetric there are two angles the same, but they don't have to be any particular value.
11:03:13 <norbert79> Not really, if I use the reference tile sprite, it doesn't look that dimetric to me
11:03:27 <peter1138> Your example image is misleading...
11:03:48 <peter1138> It doesn't state how the angles related to the projection method.
11:03:53 <norbert79> It's not, since it is the base tile image, and I want to draw a new house based on that :)
11:04:04 <norbert79> I know, this is what I am trying to find out
11:04:20 <peter1138> Anyway, it's 2 pixels across by 1 pixel up.
11:04:21 <norbert79> since I need them for calculations for width and length
11:05:04 <norbert79> so basically it means 8 pixels high means 16 pixels wide, right?
11:06:17 <norbert79> I just made some calculations for the condos/blockhouses I would like to draw, and it turns out, that 3 metres are around 8 pixels high
11:06:17 <peter1138> The actual angles at 116.565° and 126.87°, but that doesn't help much.
11:06:21 * Rubidium claims OpenTTD uses axonometric projection :)
11:06:26 <norbert79> it does though a bit
11:07:10 <norbert79> so now I am trying to figure out how those 3 meters => 8 pixels translates to this view and how I can draw a cube of that
11:07:12 <peter1138> norbert79, and nothing is to scale either.
11:07:17 <norbert79> which I could use as a base :)
11:07:37 <norbert79> but I need some reference, so I used a bus sprite, from colossal's Ikarus set
11:07:59 * Eddi|zuHause thinks that's a bad idea
11:08:11 <norbert79> Eddi|zuHause: I don't, it looks ok so far
11:08:39 <TheUros> who play solo games .. how big maps you ussualy choose ?
11:08:51 <norbert79> doesn't matter to be honest
11:09:07 <Eddi|zuHause> but i should probably go smaller
11:09:09 <Rubidium> peter1138: just declare the scale: 1 pixel = n meter, n ∈ ℝ :)
11:09:32 <peter1138> 64x128 provides a challenge.
11:09:57 <peter1138> Hard to make huge profits...
11:10:05 <norbert79> I prefer large scale for more optimal allocations of trains and tracks, more possibilities :)
11:10:20 <norbert79> and for more realistic track-layouts
11:10:22 <planetmaker> oh, possibilities are not larger on a large map really
11:10:38 <Eddi|zuHause> every time i try to choose a scale, i find things that don't fit the scale...
11:11:11 <Eddi|zuHause> like, wagons are too short. or hills are too low
11:11:12 <Rubidium> planetmaker: nah, 1 tiles = 686 km :)
11:11:17 <norbert79> planetmaker: Wow, imagining 10 km wide houses :D
11:11:32 <Eddi|zuHause> or curves are too wide or too narrow
11:11:40 <Eddi|zuHause> or don't fit the mountains
11:12:43 <SmatZ> Rubidium: are you still playing that game?
11:12:48 <planetmaker> generally maps < 0.25M tiles are nicely playable
11:13:13 <Rubidium> SmatZ: not really, but then... I'm not really playing at all lately
11:13:15 <planetmaker> norbert79, consider distances between towns and you'll find that the scale 1tile=1km is not that bad
11:13:35 <Rubidium> and my last version of the save is someone corrupted :)
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11:13:42 <norbert79> planetmaker: Still sounds stupid, considering it would mean every 1 tiled building is 1 km wide :)
11:14:18 <Rubidium> norbert79: but a vehicle moving 300 meter a day sounds equally stupid
11:14:38 <Rubidium> SmatZ: it's all *your* fault :)
11:14:41 <planetmaker> or a train loading passengers for 5 days
11:14:43 <norbert79> Rubidium: Agree, but I still go for my mesaurements :)
11:15:00 <planetmaker> norbert79, don't go by measurements but go by looks
11:15:00 <Rubidium> ran your lovely "execute random command"-patch on it!
11:15:08 <planetmaker> scale is... arbitrary
11:15:20 <norbert79> planetmaker: That was the intention, maybe should have reprhased my last sentence :)
11:15:30 <Rubidium> planetmaker: lies, I just defined the scale
11:15:50 <Rubidium> planetmaker: 1 tile = n meter, n ∈ ℝ
11:16:03 <planetmaker> that's quite limiting ;-)
11:16:32 <Rubidium> yes, I know... it's a factor infinite smaller
11:17:19 <norbert79> Well, I made also my decision based on other buildings
11:17:24 <norbert79> coming from OpenGFX
11:18:02 <planetmaker> norbert79, slightly different thing: better don't combine vehicles and stations and infrastructure in one single newgrf (that's how I understood your forum posting)
11:18:06 <planetmaker> it's a bad idea [tm]
11:18:34 <norbert79> No, I am just about to draw my first building, I don't even have too much on my hands so far
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12:14:46 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20795 /trunk/src/vehicle_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: clarify code/documentation of the start/stop bit in CmdMassStartStopVehicle (Krille)
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12:21:26 <Rubidium> oh, pretty early today :)
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12:23:24 <dihedral> Belugas, can be nice too some times :-P
12:24:10 <Rubidium> how much a single space can mean :)
12:24:11 <norbert79> dihedral: Except it comes with some very unpleasent symptomps
12:24:44 <Rubidium> a space seperating from between being at home and not being at home
12:24:52 <glx> like leaking from both sides ?
12:25:30 <Belugas> fortunately, ain't my case :)
12:25:50 <dihedral> work can involve unpleasent symptoms too :-P
12:26:21 <Belugas> like high dose of caffeine!
12:27:52 * robotboy gives in to playing rct1 on windows 7
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12:39:04 <norbert79> rolling candyy tycoon 1? :S
12:40:04 <Eddi|zuHause> wasn't there an rctpatch?
12:41:31 <X-2> rct 1 & 2 were addicting.. I dont like rct 3 =(
12:42:57 <Eddi|zuHause> i never played any of these
12:43:11 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: isn't that locomotion? :)
12:43:26 <Rubidium> like rct is a "patched" ttd :)
12:43:37 <Eddi|zuHause> no, that was openloco :p
12:44:18 <TheUros> GRF packages have dos and windows version .. what kind i have to use on linux ?
12:45:11 <Rubidium> TheUros: doesn't matter that much; OpenTTD can convert them on the fly
12:45:51 <Rubidium> TheUros: the major caveat is that OpenTTD can't detect the DOS/Windows "version" (rather palette) of a NewGRF and as such assumes it's the same as the base graphics.
12:46:37 <Rubidium> TheUros: so if you use OpenGFX or the original Transport Tycoon Deluxe for Windows you're better off with the Windows graphics, with the Transport Tycoon Deluxe for DOS you're better of with the DOS version
12:47:25 <Rubidium> however... in trunk there's a feature that allows NewGRFs to declare their palette and if a NewGRF actually declares a palette it will use that palette, unless overridden by the user
12:47:48 <Rubidium> you can override the palette by clicking of the "toggle palette" button in the NewGRF settings window
12:48:29 <TheUros> heh .. i didn't know that
12:48:43 <peter1138> Is that not in version 1?
12:50:14 <Rubidium> the palette of a NewGRF?
12:50:30 <Rubidium> or do you mean OpenTTD 1.0.x?
12:53:15 <peter1138> Seem to remember it being around a while.
12:56:28 <Lakie> Rubidium: quick question with var64 they count themselves towards count but distance must be from another object?
12:58:06 <Rubidium> the NewGRFs declaring their palette is quite new (maybe 2 months old)
12:58:57 <planetmaker> and a good thing [tm] :-)
12:59:01 <Rubidium> Lakie: yes, distance to self would be silly and counting themselves is only if it's actually built
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13:02:37 <JackSwagger> someone can change me values to the airplanes? im n00b, i give that
13:03:18 <Lakie> You mean alter capacities etc?
13:03:31 <JackSwagger> i want to edit running cost...
13:03:48 <Lakie> Is this plane from a grf or the sttock game?
13:04:51 <planetmaker> JackSwagger, load another newgrf which can edit base costs
13:05:01 <JackSwagger> i dont know how to edit :|
13:06:41 <JackSwagger> because i use this, its nice but running cost are expensive
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13:08:55 * Belugas listens to Lisa Gerrard - Glorafin
13:09:10 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20796 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix: make sure all houses in the house spec array are valid. It was possible that part of a multitile house was not copied because the array was full
13:09:41 * Rubidium wonders why VanHalen sounds so awkwardly familiar
13:10:05 <planetmaker> JackSwagger, look for the BaseCost newgrf
13:10:26 <planetmaker> But unless you have a nightly, setting the parameters will be a pain.
13:11:02 <JackSwagger> i have stable version.
13:11:54 <SmatZ> Rubidium: sorry, my rmb is broken
13:13:57 <JackSwagger> planetmaker : can i use save game from stable to nightly?
13:14:51 <planetmaker> yes. But not the other way around
13:15:30 <JackSwagger> what is the command to edit cost ?
13:15:41 <Rubidium> Belugas: that sounds quite India-ish
13:16:56 <planetmaker> there's no such single command, JackSwagger
13:17:07 * Rubidium returns to something more "western", although still "eastern" to Belugas :)
13:17:20 <Belugas> i love the sounds, the dreamy texture, the highly emotively charged voice
13:19:34 <Rubidium> although the question is whether Celtic music is considered "western" :)
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13:23:53 <Belugas> celtic music has very deep middle eastern roots ;)
13:24:22 <Belugas> although ain't a specialist on da matter
13:24:43 <planetmaker> looks promising, norbert79
13:24:55 <planetmaker> does it extend beyond the tile boundary, though (on the right?)
13:25:08 <norbert79> planetmaker: Thank you, I am also satisfied with the size. No, it was just a very quick test drawing
13:25:19 <norbert79> So I can see how it might look within the game
13:25:42 <norbert79> ah, from the size point of view, yes it will be a bit larger
13:26:04 <planetmaker> height is no issue. Width is a real problem and should not exceed 64 pixels
13:26:13 <planetmaker> or you'll run into nice glitches
13:26:36 <norbert79> Nah, it's just fine
13:26:41 <norbert79> just within 64 pixels
13:27:06 <planetmaker> I wasn't sure and couldn't be bothered to zoom in ;-)
13:27:27 <norbert79> I had to measure too, but I see it's just within the limit
13:27:38 <norbert79> it is not even at the boundary of the 64 pixel limit
13:27:51 <norbert79> so I think it will go fine
13:28:00 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20797 /trunk/src/ (house.h newgrf.cpp): -Fix: disable houses without a size that are available according to their building flags
13:28:30 <norbert79> Hope I can release first finished one soon
13:29:07 <norbert79> what's the maximum? Btw it won't be that large, since these buildings are 9-10 stories high
13:29:18 <norbert79> we have some 25 storied high too, but I won't include them yet
13:30:06 <SmatZ> something about 70px, I think
13:30:10 <planetmaker> SmatZ, but that needs a certain minimum building height, right?
13:30:24 <SmatZ> but I don't know how high is that
13:30:34 <planetmaker> That building is like 250 or so
13:30:45 <norbert79> hmm, but I have seen much larger buildings in the game
13:31:05 <planetmaker> tile width=64 ;-)
13:31:07 <norbert79> It's an important factor for me to be honest
13:31:41 <norbert79> width for 64 pixels is ok with me, but it would be nice to know what's the maximum height
13:31:55 <planetmaker> actually...tile height=32, slope=18 IIRC
13:32:22 <Lakie> Aren't most tiles actually 64x31?
13:32:35 <Lakie> As the standard flat tile
13:33:04 <planetmaker> Lakie, plust one border IIRC?
13:33:06 <Ammler> Lakie: he meant the house height, I guess
13:33:14 <Rubidium> Point pt = RemapCoords(x, y, 241);
13:33:21 <Rubidium> height = (_vd.dpi.top + _vd.dpi.height - pt.y) >> 5 << 1;
13:33:35 <norbert79> Rubidium: Which means 241 pixels then?
13:33:36 <Rubidium> I think that's where the number should come from
13:33:45 <Rubidium> norbert79: not necessarily
13:34:17 <Lakie> I guess so too, Ammler, as the flat tiles in trg1r are definitely 64x31.
13:34:18 <norbert79> I really would like to know the exact maximum height... It affects some parts of the pack I am planning to have
13:34:39 <Ammler> SmatZ: that house is from TTRS, but there are higher ones, aren't?
13:34:42 <planetmaker> 15 is indeed the tile height on the screen for those steep slopes
13:34:45 <Lakie> Although height, I'm not sure about, since it uses 8 per level?
13:34:57 <Rubidium> it doesn't take tile height into account, so I *fear* that you only have 121 (or maybe 153) pixels of height
13:35:43 <planetmaker> that gets subtracted?
13:36:02 <norbert79> Ok, the building on the picture is 186 pixels high
13:36:08 <Ammler> norbert79: maybe it isn't worth to care about it, just make nice houses :-)
13:36:29 <JackSwagger> what year is the end? no new vehicules ?
13:36:40 <JackSwagger> on nightly version
13:36:58 <Ammler> nobody ever complained about the high ttrs houses
13:37:04 <planetmaker> JackSwagger, it depends upon your newgrfs.
13:37:05 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20798 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_tile.hpp: -Doc [FS#4117]: [NoAI] AITile::HasTransportType doesn't work for TRANSPORT_AIR
13:37:05 <norbert79> Ok, measuring the cut-off part from it makes 158 pixels
13:37:13 <planetmaker> No change between nightlies and stable versions
13:37:27 <planetmaker> Ammler, people do / did :-)
13:37:28 <JackSwagger> but where is the maximum ?
13:37:33 <planetmaker> But it never got much attention
13:37:41 <planetmaker> JackSwagger, you can play till year 5000000
13:37:52 <planetmaker> new vehicles... like in TTD. around 2050ish
13:38:00 <SmatZ> Ammler: maybe there are
13:38:34 <Rubidium> norbert79: you've got to see that's pretty close to the 153 I was talking about, though the train probably doesn't run at level 0
13:39:23 <Rubidium> and there seems to be plenty of rounding stuff as well :)
13:39:52 <Rubidium> guess someone must figure out what the exact limits are and whether stuff can be optimised by looking at the tileheight as well
13:40:23 <Rubidium> and making buildings consistently equally glitchy at heightlevel 0 and 15
13:40:27 <planetmaker> except if the proper setting is enabled?
13:41:19 <Rubidium> planetmaker: what if you're loading a savegame with missing NewGRFs?
13:41:41 <planetmaker> you can still do that
13:41:44 <Rubidium> well, you'd be removing NewGRFs, which isn't allowed as per that setting
13:42:06 <Rubidium> so those games shouldn't be unpausable with that setting as well
13:42:12 <planetmaker> it's only a setting disallowing it while playing the game
13:42:18 <Ammler> norbert79: the situation SmatZ illustrated is quite uncommon, I would like to see glitches on regular maps
13:42:38 <Rubidium> planetmaker: but missing NewGRFs while loading is "while playing the game"!
13:42:38 <planetmaker> that might be a good idea, to not unpause those. Question then: what about compatible newgrfs?
13:42:49 <SmatZ> Ammler: with ttrs and tram traffic in town, it isn't rare to happen
13:42:56 <Rubidium> planetmaker: not allow those either, it's changing NewGRFs as well
13:43:07 <planetmaker> Rubidium, yes... but it's IMHO a slightly different thing despite
13:43:31 <planetmaker> I guess it can be done, though
13:43:32 <Rubidium> and if you downloaded everything you'd still need to reload the savegame
13:43:57 <planetmaker> re-load? I think it's loaded anyway only after I press the 'load' button?
13:44:39 <Rubidium> planetmaker: but stuff got changed by the missing NewGRF, so reloading the NewGRFs isn't always enough
13:44:59 <Rubidium> actually... you should forbid loading the NewGRF if there are missing NewGRFs at all
13:45:08 <planetmaker> Rubidium, I see only one situation where that is relevant: the load dialogue, right?
13:45:41 <planetmaker> and... does it already load the thing? How does it handle it now that I can download newgrf from the load dialogue?
13:45:55 <planetmaker> Doesn't it only load the game after I downloaded missing stuff and after I pressed 'load'?
13:45:58 <Rubidium> and loading compatible hasn't proven to be safe at all
13:46:25 <Rubidium> planetmaker: if you do it from the load dialog it'll probably work
13:46:28 <planetmaker> But I wonder whether that might be too harsh
13:46:48 <Rubidium> but I'm wondering about -g and friends (fail to intro?)
13:47:14 <Rubidium> planetmaker: "Murphy" is all I've got to say about it being too harsh
13:48:19 <planetmaker> Rubidium, with disallowing 'compatible' I fear that such setting would easily become ineffective: everyone would turn on 'newgrf_add_remove' and nothing is won
13:55:31 * Rubidium wonders how often a compatible NewGRF is loaded causing a crash when no other NewGRFs have been added/removed as well
13:55:38 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20799 /trunk/src/newgrf_engine.cpp: -Fix: [NewGRF] clamp vehicle var 0xC2 (max age) to uint16 (Hirundo)
14:03:44 <norbert79> Have to go guys, see you!
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14:20:42 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20800 /trunk/src/newgrf_engine.cpp: -Fix: [NewGRF] clamp some more vehicle variables
14:22:53 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: now you're 10% leet :)
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15:14:50 <JackSwagger> why autorenew its not working ?
15:15:20 <planetmaker> why do you think it's not working?
15:15:46 <JackSwagger> because my cars its old
15:15:54 <JackSwagger> and i put 6months.
15:16:04 <planetmaker> you have too little money
15:16:24 <planetmaker> vehicle is not available anymore
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15:48:42 <LunarWolf> what is the latest version of OpenTTD?
15:49:15 <Yexo> 1.0.3, 1.0.4-RC1, r20789 or r20800
15:50:45 <LunarWolf> aha, I managed to bury a lot of the scripts, and tomorrow I'll have your model in Maya 2011
15:54:12 <LunarWolf> search is not just r20800
15:54:36 <LunarWolf> you can link to the forum where the latest version?
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15:59:37 <Progman> LunarWolf: r20800 is the number of the revision on the svn server
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16:03:16 <JCaesar> I've got some weird connection problems.
16:04:40 <JCaesar> The pings to the server look good, the data throughput is fine, anyone else using ottd can play perfectly on that server, only I get disconnected at least once per minute
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16:06:55 <JCaesar> Have there been similar problems?
16:07:22 <JCaesar> I already experienced that once, but it seemed gone some weeks ago.
16:12:32 <LunarWolf> how to set up a game that benefited from the accelerated driver?
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16:44:03 <Rubidium> accelerated driver? Where? What?
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16:44:23 <Rubidium> JCaesar: it might be that your client is too slow to keep up with the server?
16:44:31 <LunarWolf> Problem: does not work for me 32 extra zoom version of the game r20789
16:44:57 <Rubidium> or that the connection isn't as stable as you think it is; OpenTTD doesn't like unstable connections at all
16:45:09 <Rubidium> LunarWolf: still, what accelarated driver?
16:45:11 <JCaesar> Dunno, PC is fine to play Crysis or SCII with highest settings (apart from AA)
16:45:30 <JCaesar> Rubidium: And, already the downloading is slowed.
16:46:29 <Rubidium> downloads don't have much to do with stability of the connection
16:47:42 <Rubidium> and for downloads it doesn't matter that much when it has to wait relatively long for a resend of a lost packet. For OpenTTD you're basically screwed
16:48:10 <Rubidium> as OpenTTD has to wait till the lost packet is resent
16:48:58 <Rubidium> and if your OS doesn't manage to do that in time OpenTTD terminates the connection; lagging of 10+ seconds definitely not useful when playing OpenTTD
16:50:25 <LunarWolf> I do not remember what else you had to download !!!
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16:56:48 <LunarWolf> This is not to version r20789
16:58:15 <SmatZ> this is not extra zoom levels support channel
17:04:26 <SmatZ> implying latest version of OpenTTD != latest version of extra zoom levels patch
17:06:06 <Rubidium> still... what accelerated driver? 32bpp extra zoom is in NO way an accelerated driver
17:10:00 *** [com]buster has joined #openttd
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17:18:59 <LunarWolf> version only works r20739
17:19:52 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: GT was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 19 hours, 13 minutes, and 19 seconds ago: <GT> Do you OTTD-devs have a specific sequence of performing user actions when profiling?
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17:27:30 <Ammler> LunarWolf: you could report 32bpp-ez issues to the thread or its tracker
17:29:05 <frosch123> he, sm*tz talking to himself? :p
17:30:03 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster
17:38:22 <LunarWolf> if I started to write about these issues that I knew in order to book OpenTTD32bpp the forum was
17:45:38 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r20801 /trunk/src/lang/ (belarusian.txt hungarian.txt slovenian.txt):
17:45:38 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:38 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: belarusian - 1 changes by KorneySan
17:45:38 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: hungarian - 1 changes by IPG
17:45:38 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: slovenian - 3 changes by ntadej
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18:25:33 <Belugas> #ceremony of the cloud people
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19:11:11 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster
19:18:18 <azaghal> I think someone posted wrong update on HappyPenguin
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19:45:51 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20802 /trunk/src/ (bridge_gui.cpp town_cmd.cpp tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp): -Fix: Building bridges on water/watery objects behaved inconsistently for towns and the bridge selection GUI.
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20:20:15 <planetmaker> LunarWolf: on no official one
20:20:28 <planetmaker> thus none in the dir you linked
20:23:50 <LunarWolf> Seeking such which will work: FIRS "Everything in FIRS" Economy
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20:26:46 <planetmaker> there is only one economy in FIRS
20:28:59 <ccfreak2k> One economy to rule them all.
20:29:32 <planetmaker> so... just a random statement then, LunarWolf ?
20:32:23 <LunarWolf> I just collect such additions to and then treating them to 32bpp Extra Zoom
20:41:26 <LunarWolf> I have a problem with one addition - FISH, did not work for me, namely that it is active even though it has nothing on the map
20:44:24 <Hirundo> FISH does nothing to notify you of its presence until you construct ships, as intended by the author.
20:45:27 <Rubidium> what? Doesn't fish add fisheries?!?!? :)
20:45:51 <planetmaker> that's FIRS' task ;-)
20:46:08 <Hirundo> Nope, nor does it put fish into your stomach
20:46:12 <planetmaker> FIRS(t) FISH SHIPS :-P
20:53:47 <LunarWolf> Here are add-ons that will be in version 32bpp Extra Zoom: Industrial Station Renewal, Firs + transport (rail, road, sea, air)
20:55:01 <Nite> is there a more non technical irc for ottd?
20:57:02 <Noldo> Nite: just talk what you need to talk about
20:57:44 <__ln__> this channel is very non-technical at times
20:59:12 <Nite> well as for now i would liek to know your expierience with openttcoop, but not about their undoubtly absolutely stunning networks, but wiht their lets say conceit ...
21:01:32 <planetmaker> :-D I have good experience there Nite. But bad with some users ;-)
21:01:45 <SmatZ> I have very good experience as well
21:02:15 <LunarWolf> is an addition to the ports and quays?
21:05:04 <Ammler> Nite: #openttdcoop sucks, keep away there
21:08:01 <Nite> nice trick to keep me away ammler - and it works
21:08:59 <Nite> i guess the coop needs no new intrested ppl at all
21:09:45 <Hirundo> indeed, only uninterested people should go there
21:11:05 <Nite> well they are seriously afraid of me, so it seems
21:11:44 <Nite> well put my question another way *coughs*
21:12:03 *** Progman has joined #openttd
21:12:25 <Nite> how many ppl are banned their already - because of ... whatever ...
21:12:32 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd
21:13:30 <Nite> wow i almost feel honored now ;)
21:14:36 <Nite> its fun that iam not banned on all their servers but only on the most welcoming ...
21:15:48 <Nite> and its fun taht ottd seems like a small village - rumors spread quickly, same ppl every day ...
21:16:57 *** Progman has joined #openttd
21:18:51 <planetmaker> yes. 100.000 people small village ;-)
21:19:37 <Nite> aww - well on irc and acros sthe server you often meet the same
21:20:13 <Nite> then you meet one who hates you abns you and the whole coop community tramples on you
21:21:17 <LunarWolf> but I have a strange problem this add Firs - instead of building plants have colorful boxes WTF!! Oo
21:21:55 <Terkhen> LunarWolf: some new industries of FIRS don't have graphics
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21:24:31 <Nite> hmm so i can hope that some coop ppl are still neutral to me, but that doesent help that few banned me ...
21:25:43 <SmatZ> Nite: you were banned, there was a reason for that according to players and V., you are still talking about it - do you think anything will change?
21:25:53 <SmatZ> this is only making us bored of you
21:26:32 <SmatZ> not taking into account what you are doing here
21:26:58 <Nite> and what am i doning here according to you?
21:27:23 <SmatZ> asking "who hates coop"
21:27:28 <Nite> well what else could i do?
21:27:32 <Chris_Booth> moaning about a ban wont get you unbanned
21:27:39 <SmatZ> then come back and apologise
21:27:41 <Chris_Booth> ask nicely to get unbanned
21:27:44 <SmatZ> as I told you already today
21:28:03 <Chris_Booth> or do what I do just piss everyone off :D
21:28:30 <Nite> well i should not talk then how could i say sorry
21:28:41 <__ln__> asking to get unbanned -- nicely or not -- is not guaranteed to shorten the ban
21:28:46 <Chris_Booth> Nite: ask one of the admins in person
21:29:16 <SmatZ> Chris_Booth: don't advice him how to make his ban longer :p
21:29:21 <Nite> i do not know anyone of ottd in person - its purely online
21:29:43 <Chris_Booth> SmatZ: i know i am great at it
21:29:47 <planetmaker> so it's the same for you as for most
21:29:50 <Chris_Booth> and i will never say i was wrong
21:30:06 <Chris_Booth> and will never ask for an unban
21:30:10 <__ln__> Nite: another option: go do something else for 24 hours; watch a movie, go walk outside, sleep... then see if you are still banned tomorrow.
21:30:10 <Nite> well maybee invent the sport who cna get banned on coop the quickest ...
21:30:15 <Chris_Booth> but i will moan at people in private
21:30:19 <SmatZ> hmm... so is #openttd becoming a #openttdcoop.chat ?
21:30:45 <Chris_Booth> i was just popping in to see what was happening
21:30:59 <Chris_Booth> as it sometimes has interesting things here
21:31:18 <Chris_Booth> Nite it may not be
21:31:23 <Nite> yeah you popped in strangely at the time i was bringing it up
21:31:57 <Nite> well they are on high horses but htey are reactive at least - reactively bashing ...
21:32:12 <Nite> sry but i simply cant take it too seriously ...
21:32:22 <__ln__> let me quote a retired OTTD developer: "End of discussion."
21:32:50 <Nite> ok what to discuss next?
21:32:57 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
21:33:01 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like Tron ;)
21:33:43 <Ammler> Why doesn't yapf have negative penalty?
21:33:47 <SmatZ> yes, the tron from movie is a ottd developer
21:33:58 <Chris_Booth> Nite how to get banned here? by talking off topic and starting arguments in this channel
21:34:10 <SmatZ> Ammler: because negative penalties don't work nicely with pathfinding :p
21:34:12 <Nite> ok so tron was developer ... cant know everything
21:34:52 <SmatZ> closed circuit with total negative (or zero) penalty is asking for deadlock
21:35:02 <Nite> well i was told that this channel is quiet untechnical sometimes
21:35:04 <Chris_Booth> wouldn't negative penalties help with things such as bypasses?
21:35:24 <Terkhen> what could make a computer that used to run windows 98 give a blue screen while installing it?
21:35:41 <planetmaker> well... negative penalties are not needed. One could just apply a different offset
21:35:49 <Rubidium> yes, then it finds out that taking the bypass *twice* results in a lower penalty, so it'll be looping the bypass forever
21:35:59 <planetmaker> so that the lowest value is still 1. or so
21:36:09 <Terkhen> no, it's an ancient 4 GB IDE drive
21:36:26 <SmatZ> planetmaker: then path with more segments will receive n-times penalty
21:36:36 <planetmaker> which is fine. isn't it?
21:36:45 <planetmaker> and which happens
21:36:49 <SmatZ> planetmaker: I don't think so
21:37:08 <__ln__> Terkhen: does the bluescreen say anything useful? guess not.
21:37:11 <planetmaker> doesn't the pf add a certain penalty for every tile? depending upon its properties different ones?
21:37:24 <planetmaker> like up-slope more. red signal way more. station more etc pp?
21:37:28 <Terkhen> hmmm... I'm too used to ignore them :P
21:37:56 <Chris_Booth> reverse pbs and roads are also pf items arent they?
21:38:10 <planetmaker> a reverse pbs is 5 roads ;-)
21:38:15 <Chris_Booth> ooh and tracks crossed or split/joined
21:38:18 <Nite> the questen terkhen should be what Din't cause a win 98 computer giav abluescreen ...
21:40:48 <Nite> well the bsod did actually say useful things ... *unbelievabel*
21:42:20 <Terkhen> of course, it did not appear now that I was actually paying attention
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21:53:44 <Nite> Whats the nicest goal/competition server ya all think?
21:54:40 <Rubidium> definitely "Rubidium's crappy server
21:54:54 <planetmaker> luukland / goulp is the most popular one
21:55:35 <Rubidium> my crappy server's goal is removing desyncs and it's pretty good in that competition; so far all desyncs have lost!
21:56:33 <Rubidium> a side goal is spreading IPv6 capable servers (okay, I've been too lazy to actually set up port forwarding)
22:18:42 <glx> Rubidium: why set up port forwarding when ipv6 just works :)
22:42:17 <TomyLobo> glx faulty firewalls?
22:42:53 <TomyLobo> (and no, that's not the next ubuntu version)
22:43:27 <glx> firewall setup is the same for ipv6 and ipv4
22:43:57 <TomyLobo> but nat is a nice blanket solution
22:44:17 <glx> nat is not a security solution
22:44:38 <TomyLobo> but it works like one
22:45:21 <glx> when it just opens ports on request
22:45:28 <TomyLobo> i think you didnt think that through
22:45:46 <TomyLobo> firewalls block attacks from outside, not from inside
22:46:12 <TomyLobo> unless you mean "desktop firewalls"
22:46:50 <TomyLobo> well that doesn't replace a good "real" firewall
22:47:18 <TomyLobo> desktop firewalls can be broken. nothing is safe
22:47:48 <TomyLobo> and if something can open a connection to use upnp, it can just as well connect somewhere else
22:48:54 <glx> but the firewall asks me when a new program tries to connect somewhere
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23:11:26 <ccfreak2k> glx, it's basically a game of cat-and-mouse.
23:11:53 <ccfreak2k> Plus: if a program manages to bypass the firewall, what makes you think the firewall would tell you about it?
23:12:17 <glx> if it can bypass the firewall it will bypass the nat
23:13:10 <ccfreak2k> The difference is that NAT isn't security.
23:13:25 <ccfreak2k> It's a way of multiplexing more than one host behind a single public IP address.
23:13:39 <glx> but many thinks it is a security layer
23:14:08 <ccfreak2k> And I think I have a million dollars. A peek at my bank statements tells me otherwise.
23:17:20 <Chris_Booth> I am off to bed night all
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