IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-06-17
⏴ go to previous day
02:19:45 *** fjb is now known as Guest259
02:25:05 *** devilsadvocate has quit IRC
02:25:40 *** rhaeder1 has joined #openttd
02:54:50 *** rhaeder has joined #openttd
03:48:54 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge
04:54:14 *** roboboy has joined #openttd
04:56:27 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
05:31:31 *** Morloth_ has joined #openttd
05:35:12 *** Rubidium has joined #openttd
05:44:13 *** Kurimus has joined #openttd
06:36:37 *** ^Spike^ has joined #openttd
06:46:19 *** Progman has joined #openttd
07:02:09 <andythenorth> Yexo: Express, piece goods, refrigerated.....should be 00A4 ?
07:54:27 <planetmaker> peter1138: I think that the tunnel sprites for rail types need two additional sprites
07:54:45 <planetmaker> only an overlay doesn't do it as there'll be always wall which will be behind the train for two of the directions
07:55:08 <planetmaker> thus those directions need two overlays, one before and one behind the train sprite(s)
07:55:19 <planetmaker> like current base set tunnels do as well.
07:55:54 <planetmaker> and as no one yet uses it to my knowledge, it's not a big compatibility issue either
08:02:21 <peter1138> planetmaker, the wall is already provided, no?
08:02:50 <peter1138> by the base graphics
08:03:23 <peter1138> wall & tunnel graphics are set by the base graphics set
08:03:32 <peter1138> the rail type just overlays the track
08:04:48 <planetmaker> so how would I provide different tunnel entrance sprites? By actionA only?
08:05:00 <peter1138> because they're landscape specific
08:05:42 <planetmaker> yes, I know they are. Somewhat. I could provide landscape-unspecific sprites
08:06:48 <planetmaker> (mind it's a big site)
08:07:00 <planetmaker> sprites 2365+ define the tunnel sprites
08:07:26 <planetmaker> so the 4 railtype tunnel sprites define exactly what?
08:08:14 <planetmaker> I mean... the track is defined with overlay and underlay... what kind of track is different in a tunnel?
08:08:38 <peter1138> because it might be shaded
08:08:56 <peter1138> due to being in shadow
08:09:29 <planetmaker> so that track piece os drawn over the back of the tunnel(s)
08:09:38 <planetmaker> then the train, then the front of the tunnels
08:11:09 *** JVassie has joined #openttd
08:12:45 <peter1138> something like that
08:14:17 <planetmaker> ok, but we'll see. Now I know how those four sprites are meant to be used
08:14:49 <planetmaker> thanks for clearing that up for me
08:15:52 *** einKarl has joined #openttd
08:17:04 <planetmaker> I assumed wrongly their use as tunnel sprites as opposed to tunnel track sprites :-)
08:18:41 <planetmaker> I elaborated a bit (more) in the newgrf wiki
08:20:23 *** JVassie_ has joined #openttd
08:28:32 <planetmaker> is the mulitplayer mode yes/no available for newgrfs?
08:33:50 <planetmaker> well. There's no base-set independent way to define tunnel sprites
08:34:07 <planetmaker> thus I want to ignore a parameter related to that, if it's a MP game
08:34:25 <planetmaker> But for SP I'd like to provide a switch for TTD or OpenGFX-base set compatible tunnel sprites
08:35:09 <peter1138> that's the whole point of only specifying the track
08:35:48 <planetmaker> But I cannot provide tunnel sprites without considering the base set in use
08:36:12 <planetmaker> I got that now. But it means I cannot define tunnel sprites without knowing the base set in use.
08:37:40 <peter1138> backing up 1GB files at 2MB/s is tiresome :(
08:39:46 <__ln__> "Die vielbefahrene Strecke Braunschweig-Hannover bleibt mindestens bis Montag gesperrt."
08:40:21 <planetmaker> sounds pretty bad :S
08:40:40 <planetmaker> it's about 30km from here
08:40:47 <peter1138> yeah, unreadable gibberish
08:41:59 <peter1138> "We have been sitting in the room and as it has gerummst. I have quite a few here and rausgeholt through my garden here led to the street"
08:42:19 <peter1138> "I have a few minutes trying aufzubekommen the door and I first started"
08:42:25 <peter1138> germans never make sense!
08:42:42 <planetmaker> :-P English fail at foreign languages it seems ;-)
08:43:17 <planetmaker> the translator seems pretty bad. No really uncommon words there
08:43:25 <peter1138> i learnt french, more useful
08:43:30 <peter1138> they have nice wine & stuff
08:43:43 <peter1138> (i'll pretend it still know any of it, hehe)
08:44:08 <SpComb> almost another bridge-trick
08:46:31 <planetmaker> Ce n'est pas très facile, peter1138 :-P
08:46:55 <planetmaker> Encore, changerais la langue d'ici ;-)
08:47:40 <peter1138> it is not very... something :p
08:49:04 *** peter1138 changes topic to "1.0.1, 1.0.2-RC1 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Speak French Day | Don't ask to ask, just ask"
08:49:18 <SpComb> so, how do you detect a derailed train and warn oncomig trains?
08:50:05 <peter1138> je ne sais pas, spcomb
08:55:21 <__ln__> c'est un sensor, ne pas toucher
08:56:35 <planetmaker> peter1138: seems to work quite nicely with the tunnels. But indeed they need their own track sprites, the default track sprites look a bit strange
08:56:58 <peter1138> i'd imagine they draw through the ground
08:57:17 <peter1138> i, uh, didn't really test it might
08:57:44 <planetmaker> yes, the tunnel sprites need to supply some kind of underlay, too so that the default track is over-painted
08:58:03 <planetmaker> but they need to provide shadowing, too and their sleepers should not extend over the wall ;-)
08:59:18 <planetmaker> ^ that's how it looks with my default sprites (combined underlay + tracks)
08:59:43 <planetmaker> I'll have to push Irwe to provide dedicated sprites there
08:59:51 <peter1138> that's not *too* bad
08:59:57 <peter1138> but yeah, needs to go darker
09:00:08 <planetmaker> nope, not too bad. And the snow should go a bit deep in the tunnel
09:00:22 <peter1138> what's with the bloody mess? heh
09:01:31 <planetmaker> oh, you mean the tracks there?
09:01:38 <planetmaker> It's just my track type testing savegame
09:01:47 <planetmaker> having many things visible at one glance
09:01:55 <peter1138> nah, the red blob in the middle
09:02:02 <peter1138> error highlight marker
09:02:40 <planetmaker> yes. I cannot build a rail there with that slope
09:02:48 <planetmaker> mouse cursor with rail building tool enabled
09:03:13 <planetmaker> or rather rail removal tool
09:51:58 <__ln__> i guess someone at DB is assigned to figuring out how to get from Hannover to Braunschweig on saturday
09:52:44 <planetmaker> probably. If all fails, there'll be replacement busses.
09:53:04 <planetmaker> don't you come from Berlin, though?
09:53:30 <__ln__> nope, I come from Hannover but leave from Berlin
09:53:39 <planetmaker> ah. Just vice versa than Zuu :-P
09:54:41 <__ln__> got a cheaper return flight from Berlin, and besides haven't been to Berlin yet.
09:57:08 <planetmaker> ok, I can also read arabic. The question is whether I'd understand it :-P
09:59:10 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
09:59:26 <__ln__> fünf jahre deutsch in der schule, ich erinnere mich noch etwas.
10:00:01 <Eddi|zuHause> that's better than me with 4 years french...
10:07:51 <Eddi|zuHause> of course i wasn't in france for 10 years...
10:38:12 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttd
10:41:21 <Eddi|zuHause> with the roads, it doesn't show snow at all, and with the rails, it shows snow on the ground tile, but no snow on the rail overlay
10:42:20 <planetmaker> nothing I can do about...
10:44:00 <Ammler> yeah, looks silly, snow in the tunnel, but not on the tracks after it
10:44:21 <planetmaker> well... that's a matter of how the tile height is defined
10:44:58 <planetmaker> but I have no good solution(s)
10:45:21 <Ammler> the missing snow on the road foundations might be a openttd bug...
10:45:59 <Ammler> or is that different with original base set?
10:47:47 <Ammler> seems like foundations use the level from bottom instead the "real" level they are thanks to foundations
10:51:46 <peter1138> you could fix it :D
10:52:37 <Ammler> oh, you reported the issue
10:53:18 <DorpsGek> Ammler: Commit by smatz :: r12098 /trunk/src (rail_cmd.cpp rail_map.h) (2008-02-10 11:35:05 UTC)
10:53:19 <DorpsGek> Ammler: -Fix: make snow appear on rail tiles dependant on track height, not on height of the lowest part of the tile
10:54:01 <Ammler> so you reverted that commit again?
10:55:14 <planetmaker> hm, indeed, it doesn't seem to work
10:56:41 <planetmaker> well. The rail type uses the lowest corner, not the height it is built upon - unlike the snow - awareness of the ground tile used
10:57:02 <planetmaker> For roads it uses the lowest corner - unlike for rail sprites
10:57:05 *** Wizzleby has joined #openttd
10:57:25 <Ammler> well, on your screen, it works partially for rails
10:57:41 <Ammler> it has snow on side but not between the tracks
10:58:01 <Ammler> like it has on non-foundation tiles
11:03:10 <planetmaker> yes. But ground tiles and tracks are different sprites
11:03:20 <planetmaker> so they obviously determine their height differently
11:03:30 <peter1138> should be easy to fix
11:03:39 <peter1138> apply r12098 to whatever new bits i added
11:04:12 <planetmaker> @openttd commit 12098
11:04:12 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: Commit by smatz :: r12098 /trunk/src (rail_cmd.cpp rail_map.h) (2008-02-10 11:35:05 UTC)
11:04:13 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: -Fix: make snow appear on rail tiles dependant on track height, not on height of the lowest part of the tile
11:04:22 <planetmaker> damn. No link :-(
11:09:26 <Ammler> peter1138: imo, not just a bug from you, seems also for example buggy on road foundations..., maybe a generic foundation bug
11:10:12 <SmatZ> maybe it doesn't work as expected...
11:10:23 <SmatZ> it worked in the cases I tested
11:10:34 *** devilsadvocate has joined #openttd
11:10:53 <Ammler> SmatZ: you might have fixed it for rails only
11:11:19 <Ammler> and on that time, there were no rails overlay, iirc :-)
11:11:44 <SmatZ> yeah, it worked only for rails
11:12:18 <SmatZ> the most visible issue was track on the higher part of a steep slope
11:18:25 <planetmaker> most notably there were no rail types, yes
11:18:41 <planetmaker> and that's the issue we see. It might work with just ground tiles
11:18:53 <planetmaker> that's what it looks like :-)
11:22:34 <peter1138> yeah the "is it snow" code for railtype overlay is in the varaction2 resolver
11:47:07 *** Progman has joined #openttd
12:26:32 *** Chruker has joined #openttd
12:35:42 *** Devroush has joined #openttd
12:41:15 *** einKarl has joined #openttd
13:01:00 *** Devroush has joined #openttd
13:16:31 <Belugas> bonne journee peter. Ca vas bien ce matin? ou cet apres-midi, pour toi
13:24:28 <Belugas> Bois du café! Penses pas a la bouffe!
13:24:44 *** JVassie has joined #openttd
13:26:01 <__ln__> they actualky call quarter-pounder with cheese a royale with cheese in france
13:26:23 *** roboboy has joined #openttd
13:26:26 <__ln__> but the argument about metric system doesn't hold with other countries
13:27:47 *** James is now known as Guest308
13:42:54 <VVG> I have an autoreplace order which i can't undo. It's been done in some past save i don't have anymore, now replace gui shows that vehicles aren't being replcaed, but they are, when visiting depot. I can't find a way to stop it.
13:44:03 <Eddi|zuHause> might be an individual group replacement
13:45:50 <VVG> that group i actually wanted replaced was replaced long ago and since then i deleted that group
13:47:17 <VVG> didn't think it's done per group
13:47:32 <VVG> i had ungroped group ordered with autoreplace
13:55:45 *** Coco-Banana-Man has joined #openttd
14:14:49 <VVG> Is it possible to turn off "train profit was xxx" messages but still have "train is lost" messages on?
14:23:50 *** Yrol_Denjeah has joined #openttd
14:36:38 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, in advanced settings->vehicles->warn when vehicle has negative profit
15:07:34 *** Yrol_Denjeah has left #openttd
15:44:15 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
15:45:14 *** Adambean has joined #openttd
16:18:05 *** |Jeroen| has joined #openttd
16:40:29 *** michi_cc has joined #openttd
16:40:29 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v michi_cc
17:10:58 *** fonsinchen has joined #openttd
17:26:57 *** Grelouk has joined #openttd
17:33:40 *** Brianetta has joined #openttd
17:45:25 *** devilsadvocate has quit IRC
17:45:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r19993 /trunk/src/lang/ (brazilian_portuguese.txt croatian.txt hebrew.txt):
17:45:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: croatian - 6 changes by VoyagerOne
17:45:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: hebrew - 47 changes by dnd_man
17:45:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 11 changes by Tucalipe
18:01:18 *** devilsadvocate has joined #openttd
18:11:12 *** Alberth has joined #openttd
18:17:32 * Hirundo ne parle pas Francais aussi
18:34:39 *** |Jeroen| has joined #openttd
18:41:15 * andythenorth ponders converting FISH to nml
18:41:28 <andythenorth> there isn't much code in FISH, mostly just action 0
18:42:22 <planetmaker> then it's pretty easy to convert, andythenorth
18:43:25 <andythenorth> well maybe a project for later in the year then :)
18:43:55 <planetmaker> I guess it mightbe pretty straight forward and could be done in a day
18:44:00 <PeterT> planetmaker: nice job ;)
18:44:11 <planetmaker> PeterT: mostly not my job
18:44:18 <peter1138> so can i still use the feature of newgrf of setting the same property for multiple objects at the same time?
18:44:19 <planetmaker> I'm just the messenger
18:44:28 <PeterT> planetmaker: yes, nice post
18:44:45 <planetmaker> peter1138: I haven't tried... dunno
18:45:15 <peter1138> doesn't look like the syntax supports it at all
18:45:24 <Hirundo> While loop should work, I think
18:45:29 <peter1138> but it might be a 'compiler optimization' i guess
18:45:50 <Yexo> peter1138: that's not possible currently
18:46:03 <Yexo> it's indeed a possible "compiler optimization" later on, though not really a high priority
18:46:21 <peter1138> it's required! i need to save 3 bytes from my newgrf!
18:46:42 <Yexo> in that case I'll gladly refer you back to nfo :p
18:46:45 <peter1138> generic buffers uses it
18:47:59 <planetmaker> I hardly ever needed to define the same thing for a whole range of items only and nothing else which didn't differ
18:58:15 *** Grelouk has joined #openttd
19:00:03 *** rhaeder1 has joined #openttd
19:06:38 *** zachanim1 has joined #openttd
19:21:01 *** ajmiles has joined #openttd
19:22:53 <andythenorth> maybe I can make 1k by Saturday :P
19:24:23 <DorpsGek> Alberth: 28.6666666667
19:42:09 * andythenorth is clustering mines
19:42:17 <andythenorth> not sure if Sand / Gravel Pits should cluster
19:42:31 <andythenorth> they are large, and tend to cluster on the map anyway due to needing flat land
19:43:46 <Terkhen> I agree on that, they cluster already
19:44:21 <planetmaker> they don't need to cluster (more)
19:46:31 <Eddi|zuHause> have i mentioned that i don't like the gravel pits?
19:47:20 <Eddi|zuHause> my understanding of a gravel pit is more what pikka is doing
19:51:28 *** michi_cc has joined #openttd
19:51:28 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v michi_cc
20:04:02 <fjb> Cluster them around rivers. :-)
20:06:01 *** rhaeder has joined #openttd
20:08:23 *** rhaeder2 has joined #openttd
20:13:28 *** theholyduck has joined #openttd
20:16:13 <Eddi|zuHause> the speak french day doesn't cause them much luck...
20:19:45 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
20:31:31 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: the problem is that I don't want to draw proper quarrries
20:31:40 <andythenorth> the bauxite and iron ore mine have the same issue :P
20:34:06 <andythenorth> is it likely there will be a TTDP implementation of nml?
20:35:05 <planetmaker> andythenorth: NML supports newgrf specs
20:35:15 <planetmaker> you can code newgrfs with it just as with NFO
20:35:16 <andythenorth> so separate project
20:35:24 <andythenorth> I was thinking wrong
20:35:45 <planetmaker> same as before. Just use if (ttd_platform == TTDPATCH) { blubber } else { blah }
20:36:20 <planetmaker> like in my opening posting :-)
20:36:28 <planetmaker> the code should show that both are supported ;-)
20:50:31 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttd
20:58:15 * andythenorth is baffled by advanced varaction 2
21:01:38 * andythenorth solves clustering for mines
21:01:52 <andythenorth> but it looks about the same as the default placement routine :P
21:03:32 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you should increase the spread (in numbers to generate) between primary and secondary industries
21:04:10 <Eddi|zuHause> if the average cluster size is 3, and you might want 2 clusters per secondary industry, you should maybe create 6 ore mines for each steel mill
21:05:41 <andythenorth> but the numbers of industries generated aren't under my control to that extent
21:05:50 <andythenorth> the random generation is unfathomable
21:05:58 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, you can set the ratio
21:06:35 <andythenorth> it's very rough, and frosch explained it to me once, it made sense, but has the potential to produce unexpected results
21:07:01 <andythenorth> the scaling by map size is also currently bizarre
21:08:43 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but it shouldn't change the ratios
21:09:29 <andythenorth> I wouldn't rule out some tweaks to get good ratios of secondary : primary
21:09:45 <andythenorth> there's also distance to consider
21:10:06 <planetmaker> I wouln't bother about distances
21:10:16 <andythenorth> I meant that a surfeit of secondary can be useful to prevent insane distances from primary to seconday
21:10:48 <andythenorth> fewer secondary on the map = higher chance of insane distance
21:12:33 <planetmaker> there's no insane distance on any map size
21:13:13 <planetmaker> it might happen to be large for a single primary -> secondary type. But not for all
21:13:20 <planetmaker> And when I have money, I prefer the long routes
21:13:32 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i agree with planetmaker
21:13:39 <planetmaker> Chines manufacturers may be far away, but they're cheap :-P
21:13:49 <Eddi|zuHause> it makes for more variation on which cargo to start with
21:14:13 <Eddi|zuHause> besides i usually start with passengers anyway ;)
21:14:45 <Eddi|zuHause> there's always a large city which can sustain a tram network
21:14:57 <Eddi|zuHause> makes for low but steady income without large investment
21:17:03 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i have a feeling ntfs-3g corrupts my files...
21:18:10 <andythenorth> and everything is a valid commit, no stupidly atomic changes :)
21:19:24 * andythenorth blew up the game
21:21:21 <Eddi|zuHause> as long as you have not lost the game ;)
21:21:49 <andythenorth> I just lost the game
21:22:00 <andythenorth> I believe you just cheated :P
21:26:48 *** valhallasw has joined #openttd
21:33:17 * andythenorth wonders whether to make clustering optional
21:34:57 <planetmaker> no need IMHO. As long as not everything clusters :-)
21:36:34 <andythenorth> makes minimap look kind of funky :P
21:36:55 <andythenorth> I'm going to use the same code to anti-cluster secondary industries
21:37:08 <andythenorth> players will still be able to cluster them if desired of course
22:45:40 *** Coco-Banana-Man has quit IRC
22:54:02 *** andythenorth has left #openttd
23:00:50 *** devilsadvocate has quit IRC
23:40:23 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
23:54:29 *** roboboy has joined #openttd
continue to next day ⏵
