IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-05-29
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05:36:29 * andythenorth wonders "when is it time for a break from the game?"
05:40:25 <Eddi|zuHause> what? blasphemy!!
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07:22:56 <Rubidium> yes, OFTC's system to prevent that has definitely failed
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12:00:35 <OsteHovel> now i got a pack of 32bpp sprites... are they suposed to be in /data/sprites/ (and folders for each grf it replaces) ?
12:01:34 <Ammler> (the tars should have folder sprites/<grf> in it
12:02:28 <OsteHovel> im not suposed to extract them,...
12:04:49 <Ammler> yes, no need, but you can
12:06:39 <OsteHovel> i dont get it to work so it must be something im doing wrong...
12:06:45 <OsteHovel> gonna try with a siple small tar
12:07:14 <Ammler> you need to enable the blitter, thee is a wiki page about...
12:07:25 <Ammler> also a lot tt-forums threads
12:07:31 <OsteHovel> this one right: blitter = 32bpp-optimized
12:07:38 <OsteHovel> in the [misc] part of the openttd.cfg
12:10:32 <OsteHovel> yaya but see the bright spot it worked ;)
12:10:36 <Ammler> you might need a openttd version from that time
12:10:46 <OsteHovel> everything exept that one spirte got replaced
12:10:50 <OsteHovel> the rest of the toolbar got replaced )
12:12:53 <Ammler> because that is from trg1r.grf, which doesn't change...
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12:48:37 <OsteHovel> stuff looks so cool in 32bpp ;)
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12:55:07 <andythenorth> any chance of FS #3822 ?
12:55:14 <andythenorth> I'll bake cookies if so
12:55:43 <andythenorth> (cookies will look and taste somewhat like code for industry clustering)
12:56:02 <PeterT> you haven't learned that asking will only delay you?
12:56:13 <PeterT> they will get to it eventually ;-)
12:57:17 <Alberth> Its author seems to be busy with other things atm
12:57:39 <andythenorth> PeterT: asking rarely does delay it
12:58:04 <andythenorth> quite often asking nicely seems to work
12:59:26 <andythenorth> the patch is tested and works (in single player, haven't tried MP)
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13:01:00 <frosch123> it lacks doxygen comments
13:02:42 * andythenorth could add those?
13:08:42 * andythenorth prepares cookie mix
13:09:13 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r19901 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Add: [NewGRF] Access to industry founder (var A7) during callbacks 28 and 2F. (yexo)
13:09:32 <Rubidium> aren't those cookies stale on the 19th?
13:10:38 <frosch123> the time it takes to prepare them depends on the amount. i.e. he would first have to order some kg of chocolate and such
13:10:42 <planetmaker> there'll be new ones
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16:14:06 <DJNekkid> hi guys. Anyone who is driving windows Vista or earlier who can send me mspaint.exe ?
16:14:58 <SmatZ> I can send you czech version, if you don't mind...
16:15:12 <Forked> I have mspaint.exe in win7
16:15:34 <DJNekkid> win7 have mspaint, but its "broken" compared to is predesessor
16:15:43 <DJNekkid> and a czech version is ok :)
16:16:11 <DJNekkid> but forked is sending me a russian version :)
16:16:30 <PeterT> would you prefer an english version?
16:16:51 <DJNekkid> any old mspaint.exe would hopefully work :)
16:16:59 <PeterT> I didn't find it very broken :-P
16:17:01 <DJNekkid> the text isnt important :)
16:17:06 <fjb> Chinese version would look funnier.
16:17:16 <PeterT> well, being able to read it helps :-)
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16:18:55 <DJNekkid> i'll get back to you PeterT if i need an english one
16:21:17 <DJNekkid> there is ONE function i cant seem to find in the win7 version
16:21:27 <Forked> what function is that?
16:21:33 <DJNekkid> the ability to copy only non-background colors/pixels
16:21:41 <DJNekkid> and paste that on top of an exsisting sprite
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17:44:45 <DJNekkid> probably another stupid question,but is a tile underneeth or to the right of another tile?
17:44:50 <DJNekkid> if that were understandable
17:45:29 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r19902 /trunk/src/lang/danish.txt:
17:45:29 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:29 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: danish - 4 changes by silentStatic
17:55:23 <frosch123> it was not understandable :)
17:57:48 <DJNekkid> dont matter... i found out :)
18:05:54 <DJNekkid> yey, perfect aligned step1
18:13:56 <frosch123> all spammers are in all channels anyway
18:48:23 <Ammler> [20:47] <Stablean> *** tkjacobsen has left the game (desync error) <-- after newgame
18:49:06 <Rubidium> still the same thing
18:49:24 <Rubidium> probably solved in trunk / 1.0.2
18:50:28 <Ammler> silly is, he joined right after desync
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19:18:44 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... song contest
19:18:48 <Eddi|zuHause> is that worth it?
19:19:58 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: Well, its the called the Annual Great British Embarrassment here :p
19:20:19 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: well, germany got last place twice in the last 5 years, or so :p
19:20:24 <glx> no result since 1977 here
19:20:52 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: I think we got last 3 times last 5 :p
19:21:47 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: well, austria didn't take part in the last 5 years, which always was a safe 12 points
19:22:09 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: Heh. Didn't take part or didn't pass the semifinals?
19:22:17 <Eddi|zuHause> i think didn't take part
19:23:13 <Eddi|zuHause> other fairly safe 12 points usually come from spain (= mallorca) :p
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19:24:08 <Eddi|zuHause> but even with those we managed to get last place...
19:24:35 <glx> I don't even know what is the french song this year
19:24:37 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: Can't have. For a few years we got zero...
19:24:53 <OwenS> Thats right. Even Ireland didn't vote for us
19:25:24 <Eddi|zuHause> the german 12 points often go to turkey
19:25:50 <Eddi|zuHause> except the one time where denmark won
19:26:46 <OwenS> Its fun that back in the 90s Ireland won so many times they couldn't afford it :p
19:27:12 <glx> the 1st place is not always goo :)
19:27:35 <Eddi|zuHause> i think germany won only once
19:28:15 <OwenS> You're joint second with the UK for that
19:28:18 <OwenS> Ireland is 1st with 7 wins
19:29:21 <Eddi|zuHause> do you have the list of songs that won?
19:29:58 <OwenS> The UK commentary is trying to convince everyone to vote Cyprus, rofl
19:30:29 <glx> 1965 ,... Luxembourg ,..."Poupée de cire, poupée de son" ,...France Gall <-- why did she contest for luxembourg ???
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19:31:50 <OwenS> Yikes... geography fail
19:31:51 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: it says germany won only in 1982 with "Ein bißchen Frieden", and four times 2nd place
19:32:01 <OwenS> Why did I read France as Germany? Brain needs a slap
19:33:40 <OwenS> Norway are having fun with the CGI, rofl
19:35:18 <Eddi|zuHause> "Four countries tied for first place at the 1969 Contest. As no tie-break structure was in place, all four were declared joint winners."
19:35:51 <dihedral> i flew my model plane - oh what fun :-)
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19:36:37 <OwenS> In spite of only 5 wins, we have hosted the contest 8 times...
19:38:54 <Eddi|zuHause> because countries like luxembourg didn't want to host twice in a row?
19:39:35 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: Netherlands, France, Monaco, and Luxembourg. Netherlands have also hosted once on behalf of Israel since it coincided with their rememberance day
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19:55:04 <OwenS> Great British Embarassment time :p
19:55:15 <OwenS> (We are making fools of ourselves on stage ATM :P)
19:55:44 <Eddi|zuHause> far below most of the previous songs...
19:57:14 <OwenS> "DO NOT CALL FOR THE UK - Your vote won't count and may be charged" <-- They really needed to say it? :P
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20:21:28 <Zuu> Oh, andy would be proud, have implemented drag support for Junctioneer so you do no longer need to right click and select the move action to move multi-line points. :-D
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20:23:14 <glx> Eddi|zuHause, OwenS finally we may have a chance
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20:26:04 <Rubidium> OwenS: your country can decrease it's embarassment by stepping out of the magic group that goes to the finals in all cases. In that case you'll be voted out in the semi-finals and not as many people watch that!
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20:43:33 <andythenorth> frosch123: thanks for that earlier commit :)
20:45:25 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... in comparison, i don't like the german song that much...
20:45:41 <Eddi|zuHause> there are a few interesting songs in there...
20:47:38 <frosch123> maybe listen to trio instead?
20:49:22 <Ammler> This year Swiss participant born on same village as me. :-)
20:49:29 <Rubidium> or aren't we talking about cows here?
20:49:43 <Ammler> (we are 1400 habitants)
20:49:48 <Eddi|zuHause> "Pech für die Kuh Elsa"
20:50:04 <frosch123> yeah, poor elsa died
21:09:33 <OwenS> Rubidium: Stepping out of the magic group would require us decreasing our financial contribution. Which would possibly kill it.
21:09:52 <Rubidium> so it's even more effective!
21:09:57 <OwenS> The BBC provides a heck of a lot of the transmission equipment
21:10:58 <OwenS> Rubidium: But I think we would prefer to decrease our embarassment by making ourselves less embarassing :p
21:17:18 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i only have 1.2GB left...
21:17:28 <Eddi|zuHause> i should probably do something about that
21:17:41 <OwenS> Resize the logical volume? :p
21:19:29 <b_jonas> write some of the films to dvds
21:19:45 <OwenS> b_jonas: I have TV show episodes bigger than DVDs :p
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21:20:14 <Eddi|zuHause> b_jonas: i tried that once, but after only couple of years half the DVDs were bad...
21:20:15 <b_jonas> also, I'll have to make a backup
21:20:40 <OwenS> b_jonas: Besides, I don't have 93 DVD-R-DLs :p
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21:25:58 <OwenS> Its always impressive how quickly Wikipedia is updated once voting concludes :p
21:26:32 <Rubidium> can't be worse than the NL
21:27:52 <OwenS> Oh get on with it Germany
21:28:18 <Eddi|zuHause> only 10 points for turkey...
21:28:49 <OwenS> At least not more for Denmark from you :p
21:29:40 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: how good is your memory? What is the possible security issue you're talking about in r509?
21:30:24 <Eddi|zuHause> this might get interesting...
21:33:13 <Eddi|zuHause> "et läppert sich"
21:34:38 <OwenS> Germany in the lead? :o
21:35:03 <Eddi|zuHause> never 12 points, but often 6-8
21:35:31 <OwenS> Spoke too soon there :p
21:36:49 <Eddi|zuHause> what if i bet against germany winning? :p
21:37:13 <OwenS> You'd only get a couple of pennies anyway :p
21:39:08 <Eddi|zuHause> almost no country has not given any points to germany
21:42:30 <Eddi|zuHause> "the thing on the left is the sun, not a volcano" :p
21:42:59 <OwenS> Our commentator just complemented the beautiful volcanic ash sunset :p
21:42:59 <Eddi|zuHause> said the german commentator ;)
21:43:21 <OwenS> Also, when we got two points "Look at us! We are racing ahead! 3 more and were in double figures!" :p
21:44:32 <OwenS> "Again with the Eiffel Tower! Build something else famous! Come on!" :p
21:46:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd be very surprised if germany not got 12 points from spain...
21:46:39 <OwenS> BBC's stream must be a bit ahead of yours
21:46:44 <Eddi|zuHause> as far as i remember, we never not got 12 points from spain
21:47:28 <OwenS> I've got to say Oslo's interval stuff has been surprisingly unsucky
21:48:11 <TrueBrain> @openttd commit 509
21:48:11 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Commit by truelight :: r509 /branches/network (15 files) (2004-11-05 15:24:43 UTC)
21:48:12 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: -Add: [New Network] Ingame visible text-message (chat and stuff)
21:48:13 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: -Add: Made possible to draw strings in player-color
21:48:14 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: -Fix: [New Network] Possible security issue in players.c
21:48:27 <TrueBrain> why on earth do you want to know
21:48:37 <OwenS> Strangely Trac refuses to pull the diff
21:48:46 <TrueBrain> have the same issue, yes
21:49:01 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: most important note is that the commit is in a branch, and never was in any kind of release
21:49:18 <frosch123> OwenS: it is in branch 'network', not trunk
21:49:54 <Rubidium> I think I made a small mistake when the svn got reimported with branch renamed to branches
21:50:09 <TrueBrain> some meta data most likely
21:50:13 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: but why do you want to know?
21:50:43 <Rubidium> because I rather lose the _current_company = OWNER_NONE in CmdCompanyCtrl
21:50:54 <TrueBrain> something silly could happen under certain conditions
21:52:42 <TrueBrain> I believe it was an issue when holding down the shift
21:52:59 <TrueBrain> no, that was sooner
21:53:10 <TrueBrain> (holding shift caused all network-client commands to be queries :p)
21:54:49 <OwenS> O_o @ Malta's representative
21:54:54 <Eddi|zuHause> would you quit that damn on-topic talk?!? you're disturbing the discussion ;)
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21:55:12 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +o TrueBrain
21:55:25 <TrueBrain> damn, I am in one mean mood :p
21:55:48 *** Rubidium changes topic to "ESC"
21:56:01 <Rubidium> so, now we can talk off-topic about OpenTTD again! :)
21:56:33 <TrueBrain> btw, Rubidium, did you spot the null-reference in r509 players.c? :)
21:56:51 <Rubidium> no, haven't looked at it thoroughly
21:57:05 <TrueBrain> if pDoStartupNewPlayer is NULL, it makes a null reference :p
21:57:07 <Rubidium> only looked at the diff
21:57:09 <TrueBrain> but I asusme that is fixed :p
21:58:08 <TrueBrain> you are streching my memory here :p
21:59:38 <Rubidium> but a bit of brain training is good
21:59:57 <Rubidium> hmm, CmdCompanyCtrl is significantly smaller in r509
22:00:03 <TrueBrain> well, I know myself, so I can tell by the commit log that is was a hypotetical situation
22:01:36 <Rubidium> looks like you could join as spectator and be "joined"/"put" into the first newly created company
22:03:13 <OwenS> "Who has the X factor in Oslo tonight?" "...this is Eurovision"
22:03:54 <Rubidium> OwenS: Eddi|zuHause has asked you not to discuss on-topic stuff here
22:04:03 <OwenS> (For those unaware, X Factor is a UK song competition)
22:04:18 <OwenS> Rubidium: First time I've been told off for being on topic :p
22:05:09 <TrueBrain> so many bugs I find which I wonder how I could have missed them :p
22:05:12 <TrueBrain> I was young back then :p
22:05:42 <OwenS> Eoin: First, one of the points announcers; Second, our commentator
22:06:52 <OwenS> "Gosh, Moldova looks lovely. Its got a wall in it"
22:06:57 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: I have no clue why that line was required
22:07:28 <Eddi|zuHause> how great that you commented it in an immediately understandable fashion :p
22:07:48 <TrueBrain> good chance it was me being too pedantic
22:08:49 <OwenS> "We are in double figures ladies and gentlemen! isn't it amazing?!" :P
22:08:51 <Rubidium> can't find any reason in the called functions why _current_company needed to be set either
22:09:07 <TrueBrain> @kick Eoin talking in capitals all the time is annoying, at least
22:09:07 *** Eoin was kicked by DorpsGek (talking in capitals all the time is annoying, at least)
22:09:17 <TrueBrain> @kban Eoin 3600 talking in capitals all the time is annoying, at least (no-auto-return)
22:09:17 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +b *!eoin@cpc1-dund8-0-0-cust3.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com
22:09:18 *** Eoin was kicked by DorpsGek (talking in capitals all the time is annoying, at least (no-auto-return))
22:10:08 <TrueBrain> hmm .. should have been 1 minute
22:10:16 * PeterT disables auto-return, for the love of God
22:10:19 <TrueBrain> guess I forgot the input was in minutes :p
22:10:33 <OwenS> Wait... You banned him for 60 hours? XD
22:10:48 <TrueBrain> input was minutes, and I thought it was seconds
22:10:53 <TrueBrain> so I typed 60, which clearly is an hour
22:11:04 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: remove it and see what happens?
22:11:06 <OwenS> PeterT: He said "minutes", I thought kban took minutes :p
22:11:18 *** TrueBrain sets mode: -b *!eoin@cpc1-dund8-0-0-cust3.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com
22:13:11 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: as far as I can trace my memory (go figure), it had to do that some commands were executed as player instead of in the non-world, and that this could potentially avoid that problem
22:13:19 <TrueBrain> just, if it worked at all, it is a very unclean solution
22:15:46 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: to conclude, no sub-function should care if the _current_player is NONE or not .. and if the current code has the same assumption .. well :)
22:15:50 <TrueBrain> k, nuff said about this :)
22:16:00 *** TrueBrain changes topic to "1.0.1 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | UTF-8 please | No Unauthorised Bots | Continental breakfast only | Don't ask to ask, just ask"
22:16:12 <TrueBrain> OwenS: floor is yours
22:16:18 <Sacro> hmm, why was Eoin banned?
22:16:18 <OwenS> Continental breakfast only? :s
22:16:24 <OwenS> TrueBrain: ESC is nearly over anyway :p
22:16:27 <PeterT> TrueBrain: I quit enjoyed this, thank you
22:16:31 <TrueBrain> "spuit elf geeft ook modder"
22:17:08 <Eoin> i never even noticed i was banned lol
22:17:21 <TrueBrain> the ban was just to avoid your auto-return thingy
22:17:30 <TrueBrain> which defeats the idea of a kick
22:17:52 <PeterT> so the idea of a kick is to make the person work by writing "/join #channel" to get back in?
22:17:56 <OwenS> TrueBrain: Depends. Some channels I've been kicked from in jest :p
22:18:11 <TrueBrain> PeterT: no, to make them aware they were kicked; some clients otherwise do not even report the kick
22:18:28 <ccfreak2k> Eoin, it's default on in some clients.
22:18:34 <OwenS> TrueBrain: They'd see the @kick line
22:18:36 <TrueBrain> one of those 'features' in clients which makes another
22:18:45 <PeterT> TrueBrain: I see. I've disabled my kick_rejoin
22:18:50 <TrueBrain> OwenS: they go on the mental ignore :p
22:18:56 <TrueBrain> @kick PeterT of course I need to test that
22:18:56 *** PeterT was kicked by DorpsGek (of course I need to test that)
22:19:01 <TrueBrain> that he just asked for
22:20:39 <PeterT> OwenS: @kick is only if you have a supybot like DorpsGek
22:22:04 <OwenS> PeterT: Sure. But I'm refering to #openttd specifically
22:22:52 <TrueBrain> OwenS: did you know that 'ban after auto-return after kick' is part of the IRC etiquette nowedays? :)
22:23:57 <TrueBrain> then again, it also says not to kick users if they beg for it
22:24:44 <OwenS> TrueBrain: I suppose I'll have to adopt my official solution: Only ever get kicked in jest :p
22:25:44 <TrueBrain> sounds like a plan ;)
22:28:19 <Eddi|zuHause> depends on your definition of "beg" :p
22:28:46 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... this file is 9.7GB...
22:29:11 <TrueBrain> hmm .. can I define this as a beg? :p :p
22:29:17 <TrueBrain> ps: won't fit on a FAT32 filesystem :p
22:29:33 <Eddi|zuHause> i think it's ext3
22:30:12 <Eddi|zuHause> i believe they declared it stable, not sure if it actually is ;)
22:30:23 <TrueBrain> depends on your definition of "stable" :p
22:30:58 <Eddi|zuHause> but i'm on an old kernel
22:31:21 <Rubidium> I've not experienced any problems with it since the cooling paste has been removed
22:31:22 <Eddi|zuHause> so apparently "stable" was after 2.6.25
23:09:38 <Katje_> Ihave a multiplayer question, where do you set difficult settings and advanced settings
23:10:13 <__ln__> congratulations germany!
23:10:53 <PeterT> Katje_: can you elaborate on that?
23:11:01 <PeterT> starting a server, using rcon, or what?
23:13:40 <Zuu> Katje_: If it is a game that has not yet started the settings you should tweak are in openttd.cfg
23:14:19 <Zuu> If you want, you can use OpenTTD in non-dedicated mode to edit the config and then quit and start it as a dedicated server if that is how you want to host the server.
23:14:24 <Katje_> the bits normally controlled in "Advanced settings" and "difficulty (custom)"
23:14:36 <PeterT> Are you starting a server?
23:14:44 <PeterT> or are you remotely controlling a server?
23:15:48 <Eddi|zuHause> Katje_: easiest is if you prepare a savegame on single player, and upload that to the server
23:16:10 <Eddi|zuHause> Katje_: otherwise, you have to adjust stuff by hand in openttd.cfg
23:19:24 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: the weird part about that is, i don't find the song that great...
23:20:30 <__ln__> it's not the best song ever, but i thought it was quite nice
23:20:39 <Katje_> where would I find the openttd.cfg ?
23:20:39 <Zuu> I though it was normal that one is not liking the winning song.
23:20:52 <Eddi|zuHause> Katje_: in the readme.txt
23:21:03 <Eddi|zuHause> Katje_: and only after you ran openttd once and exit properly
23:21:14 <Zuu> Katje_: Or use the find file tools of your operating system. But reading the readme.txt is a good thing anyways.
23:21:21 <Katje_> hmm, thats not easy to find either, I wonder where debian hides it
23:21:28 <Eddi|zuHause> Katje_: or just put your single player cfg on the appropriate place
23:21:34 <Katje_> Zuu: well the wiki sugguests it should be in ~/.openttd/
23:21:40 <Katje_> I can find all my save games
23:21:42 <Eddi|zuHause> Katje_: in /usr/share/games?
23:21:55 * __ln__ received a flag of the federal republic of germany as a gift
23:21:56 <Zuu> We said the readme, not the wiki
23:22:15 <Katje_> aah, theres an openttd.cfg in there
23:22:24 <Eddi|zuHause> Katje_: well, savegames and config should be at the same place
23:22:32 <Rubidium> docs in debian go to /usr/share/doc/<package> ; so in this case /usr/share/doc/openttd
23:22:58 <OwenS> Note to self: If your mailing list comment disappears, check you aren't subscribed with an old address
23:23:13 <Zuu> Katje_: What does "locate openttd.cfg" tell you?
23:23:26 <Katje_> I found one in /usr/share/games/openttd
23:23:31 <SmatZ> bash: locate: command not found
23:23:32 <Rubidium> Zuu: that doesn't work until the next updatedb is ran
23:23:32 <Zuu> Shouldn't that give you rather quickly the file you want.
23:23:35 <Katje_> have copied it to ~/.openttd/
23:23:41 <Eddi|zuHause> Katje_: that shouldn't be the right place...
23:23:52 <Eddi|zuHause> Katje_: as stuff in /usr shouldn't be writable
23:24:15 <Katje_> this may explain why my settings never stay constant between games
23:24:40 <Eddi|zuHause> Katje_: i'd also advise removing
23:25:02 <Eddi|zuHause> Katje_: and telling your package maintainer to fix it...
23:25:24 <Rubidium> openttd.cfg in /usr/share/games/openttd? That's quite unlikely to happen
23:25:39 <Katje_> Rubidium: thats where its hiding...
23:25:56 <Rubidium> well, unless OpenTTD can't find a $HOME
23:26:06 <Zuu> That would mean that it was put there by the installer/packagemanager?
23:26:13 <Katje_> I have copied it to ~/.openttd/
23:26:45 <Rubidium> Zuu: it isn't for me; I've got the Debian package installed, so it isn't the Debian package that's the problem
23:26:59 <Katje_> Rubidium: which version are you using from debian ?
23:27:59 <Rubidium> though 0.6.2-lenny doesn't have an openttd.cfg either
23:28:32 <Rubidium> OwenS: why not? "Sehr Schnell"
23:28:43 <Zuu> Isn't there a deb tool that can tell you which package a file comes from?
23:28:53 <OwenS> Rubidium: Indeed. Invoking Godwin's law in a standard logo...
23:28:55 <Rubidium> there is, just don't know how it's called
23:28:58 <Zuu> Which would also tell if the file was not put there by the package manager.
23:31:07 <Rubidium> OwenS: where has that law been invoked?
23:31:44 <Rubidium> because if that's the case... don't talk about the Norwegian railway company either
23:31:53 <OwenS> At least they resisted the temtation to have it lightning style :p
23:32:47 <Rubidium> poor Swati people...
23:33:02 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: in germany it is forbidden to mimic nazi symbols
23:33:38 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: I'm aware of that. Stupid law IMO, but I understand why
23:34:26 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: well, apparently "freedom of speech" is a lesser good in germany than e.g in america
23:34:59 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: At least you have a constitution ;-). Ours is all unwritten, and in theory the House of Commons could change it on a whim without oversight
23:35:11 <OwenS> (OK, I suppose the Queen could refuse to sign it)
23:36:02 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: technically, we have a constitution that is not "active", but not really invalidated either. and another constitution that isn't a constitution and says it should be turned into a real constitution
23:36:03 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: then why does maps.google.de use swastika's?
23:36:30 <OwenS> (The House of Lords is supposed to oversee them... But in the 20s the Commons passed a bill that allows them to go around the lords. How did they do this? They threattened to get the then King to stuff the Lords with people to get the vote passed anyway)
23:36:49 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: At least yours doesn't involve trawling 400 year old court cases
23:37:28 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: some of our laws date back to pre-napoleonic times
23:38:05 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: I think some of ours date back to the 12th century. We certainly have some laws written in french
23:38:11 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: and with the history of throwing everything around, it gets pretty messy
23:38:58 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: there have been extensive court discussions on which parts of which constitution actually apply ;)
23:39:29 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: Well, at least you have some form of real constitution. Not one the government can just decide "We're gonna rewrite this bit today"
23:39:33 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: and the outcome certainly contained the words "parts of the 1918 constitution still apply"
23:40:42 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: well, we have that kind of government, too, but at least it is defined that it needs a 2/3 majority in the parliament
23:41:11 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: Majority only here. And you know what our parliments are like...
23:42:01 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: well, the last time your king ruled without parliament is a little further away than our last dictatorship
23:42:38 <Eddi|zuHause> several parts in our semi-constitution have been written especially with the events of 1933 in mind
23:42:51 <OwenS> And at least the Queen can refuse to sign a law here if the need arises
23:43:08 <Eddi|zuHause> well, our president has the same right
23:43:26 <Katje_> am I right in thinking when generating a map, if I remember the seed, I will always get the same map ?
23:43:29 <Eddi|zuHause> that actually did happen a few years ago
23:43:37 <Eddi|zuHause> Katje_: yes and no
23:43:42 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: Is your president elected?
23:44:02 <Eddi|zuHause> Katje_: things may change depending on loaded newgrfs and other settings
23:44:15 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: yes, but not directly
23:44:36 <Katje_> but if all other settings remain the same
23:44:42 <Katje_> the map will be the same each time?
23:44:45 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: I think its kind of good that our checks and balances (Lords, Queen) aren't affiliated with a political party
23:45:00 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: it's some weirdly convoluted scheme between the "Bundesrat" [representation of individual governments] and the "Bundestag" [parliament]
23:45:48 <Eddi|zuHause> Katje_: PS: game version is also relevant
23:46:32 <b_jonas> a parliment building for cities?
23:47:10 <Eddi|zuHause> b_jonas: possible via newgrf
23:47:36 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: I also like that your constitution only allows declaration of war for defensive purposes
23:47:38 <Eddi|zuHause> b_jonas: pikka once introduced the concept of "town halls", but i think he scratched that again
23:47:42 <__ln__> is there something that's not possible via newgrf?
23:48:07 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: they recently had a very wide definition of "defensive", e.g. in kosovo and afghanistan
23:48:53 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: resulting in the coined phrase "germany's borders get defended at the hindukush"
23:48:53 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: Don't they fall under the definition of peace keeping?
23:49:09 <OwenS> Certainly Kossovo was under UNMIK
23:49:19 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: no, theoretically it requires a direct threat against german territory
23:49:51 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: Hmm. Perhaps its too tightly defined in my eyes then.
23:49:57 <OwenS> Theres certainly a balance required, as in all things
23:50:26 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: the allies wrote that part into our constitution...
23:50:45 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: over here the problem is solved by calling those things "crisis", not "war".
23:51:05 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: yes, they tried that here, too. but they didn't manage to keep that up
23:51:35 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: in the recent months, they were pressured into calling it a "war" in afghanistan
23:52:20 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: especially in the aftermath of the bombing of two fuel trucks with hundreds of dead civilians
23:52:48 <Eddi|zuHause> which was kind of a turning point in german involvement in afghanistan
23:53:17 <Eddi|zuHause> that was around a year ago, i think, and cost the "head" of the previous defense minister
23:53:39 <OwenS> The interesting thing is that at this point Afghanistan truely is a peace keeping mission
23:53:43 <Zuu> Katje_: Not sure if the town names will be the same each time though. When I use the 'restart' command, the town names change even if the map is the same as before.
23:54:09 <Eddi|zuHause> Zuu: that might be a bug
23:54:15 <OwenS> Or perhaps "Peace making" or "nation building"
23:54:22 <glx> Zuu: it should be the same unless number of town changed
23:54:49 <b_jonas> how does that work together with NATO?
23:55:24 <Eddi|zuHause> b_jonas: it caused problems e.g. in bosnia, and iraq
23:56:55 <Eddi|zuHause> of course being against iraq war was one great way to get reelected back then :p
23:59:03 <Eddi|zuHause> nothing better suited to get reelected than inscenating a natural catastrophe and an instrumentalising an unwanted war ;)
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