IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-05-28
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09:35:29 <Illegal_Alien> Morning? Its almost that other part of the day :P
09:35:42 <planetmaker> still half an hour to go ;-)
09:40:53 <Illegal_Alien> 15 minutes here
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09:44:53 <sparr> that other part? prevening?
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10:49:48 <borgfish> can someone tell by what city growth is limited ? i got like 420k in there and its not growing anymore
10:50:20 <planetmaker> I got like 1.2 million
10:50:42 <planetmaker> but it depends upon which (if any) house newgrf used
10:50:59 <planetmaker> when a city builds something it can either replace an existing house or expand.
10:51:36 <planetmaker> the ratio of rim tiles vs. tiles within the town gets smaller the bigger a city gets. Thus growth will slow down quite naturally
10:51:38 <borgfish> well there is no newgrf.
10:52:10 <borgfish> and if it has small cities arround it obviously cant grow into them.
10:52:18 <borgfish> but is not stopped genreally from growing arround ?
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11:14:29 <borgfish> i set "same_industry_close" but it still spawns alot of oil riggs
11:14:34 <borgfish> its too many of them
11:14:58 <borgfish> and is there a train lenght limit value for the mammoth train setting ?
11:15:11 <borgfish> i would love it to be like 14 instead of 8
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13:08:17 <planetmaker> hello Alberth :-)
13:08:18 <Alberth> Belugas: how are you doing?
13:09:20 <Alberth> hmm, my system doesn't know the time any more :(
13:09:35 * planetmaker gives Alberth 15h and 10 minutes
13:10:03 <planetmaker> Alberth, let it retreive time via ntp services :-)
13:11:00 <Belugas> Alberth, i;m fine, thanks. just in a rush as usual...
13:11:09 <Belugas> i've got a certification on-site in about 20 minutes
13:11:27 * Alberth starts the ntp service
13:11:30 <Belugas> and a few other projects almost simultaqenously
13:11:41 <planetmaker> network time protocol
13:12:10 <Alberth> yeah, last friday of the month
13:12:22 <planetmaker> Alberth, you start the service or connect to it? :-P
13:12:38 <planetmaker> ntp.alberth.nl :-P
13:12:58 <planetmaker> Friday afternoon sillyness
13:13:30 <Alberth> planetmaker: I expect the system to sort out itself now :p
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13:15:10 <Alberth> the bios got messed up, I think. On boot, I also got the message that the case was opened.
13:16:58 <planetmaker> uh... probably old battery
13:17:19 <planetmaker> you might consider to replace it :-)
13:18:17 <Belugas> if ever it's still possible
13:23:40 * andythenorth considers trying civ 4
13:25:41 <planetmaker> consider the time it'll eat ;-)
13:27:23 * Belugas considers his mug of coffee
13:27:44 * Belugas looks at the kitchen and wonders if he feels like walking up to there for a refill
13:28:41 <Alberth> do you rather work, or refill your mug?
13:28:58 <planetmaker> there might be pre-conditions to be considered
13:29:31 <planetmaker> like optimising the net-gain function
13:29:36 * SpComb considers svn committing
13:30:28 <planetmaker> if work/time ~ coffee, it might well be worth to consider coffee. As zero coffee would result in zero work
13:30:40 <Belugas> Alberth, i've asked a colleague to refill for me :D
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15:37:52 <DJ_Nekkid> here is a very stupid question, but still ... What is the height of a tile (in px)
15:40:43 <planetmaker> or you mean of a flat tile the y height?
15:43:24 <DJ_Nekkid> from one level to another
15:43:34 <DJ_Nekkid> how many px is that
15:44:43 <planetmaker> IIRC it says 8 px between two height levels
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17:27:35 <Belugas> toum te de le de le doum
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17:29:51 <Eddi|zuHause> sometimes i don't get xkcd
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17:45:48 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r19900 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
17:45:48 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:48 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: french - 24 changes by ElNounch
17:45:48 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: german - 10 changes by planetmaker
17:45:48 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: greek - 8 changes by fumantsu
17:45:49 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: indonesian - 4 changes by prof
17:45:49 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: irish - 69 changes by tem
18:04:50 <Belugas> sometimes, i don't get coffee
18:15:27 <Eddi|zuHause> that's a huge problem, obviously
18:15:33 <Eddi|zuHause> you should work on that
18:15:46 <lennard> sudo make me a sandwich
18:16:09 <Eddi|zuHause> you're not a sudoer
18:16:35 <Alberth> not in this channel anyway :)
18:22:10 <Alberth> Belugas: I can make you a cup of tea, or is that not strong enough for you?
18:23:02 <Alberth> lennard: nobody outside the unix community will understand that joke
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18:24:06 <planetmaker> The linux community is strong within here ;-)
18:24:56 <lennard> well, some of the math people might recognize it
18:24:56 <Belugas> Alberth, in case of extreme limit, i MIGHT appreciate a cup of tea
18:24:59 <Alberth> the force is strong here :)
18:25:17 <Belugas> note: iced tea is wonderfull ;)
18:26:20 <Alberth> I tend to have very light tea, but I can make your cup stronger :)
18:29:30 <planetmaker> You could bring Vla ;-)
18:33:34 * Alberth hands Belugas a hot cup of green tea
18:33:46 <Alberth> there you go, plenty of caffeine :)
18:34:49 <Belugas> lennard, who cares, as long as it gets right "ein"
18:36:21 * Eddi|zuHause is fairly confident that Belugas really got mad now :p
18:36:45 <Alberth> friday afternoon, what do you expect ;)
18:37:13 <Eddi|zuHause> why are you at work that late on fridays anyway?
18:37:39 <Alberth> at the other side of the big pond? sure :)
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18:39:59 * frosch123 considered working a half day stupid. it is a whole lost day
18:41:07 <Belugas> THIS friday is so crazy that i've gone mad just by looking at my workload
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18:47:07 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: so you don't go to work on fridays? :p
18:47:51 <frosch123> i'm not working for volkswagen
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19:11:05 <Alberth> good evening andythenorth
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19:52:41 <Belugas> 1:08 minutes still to ENDUUUUUURE!
19:53:16 <Eddi|zuHause> and i need to get up early...
20:16:09 <Belugas> 20h15. 26 secomds or so in GMT?
20:18:28 <Eddi|zuHause> only nobody is in that time zone actually ;)
20:18:46 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe the icelandics
20:19:22 <Eddi|zuHause> i heard they shut down their aircraft inhibitor
20:22:46 <Belugas> time zones bloodying me quite madly
20:50:07 <Wizzleby> Rubidium: (much belated response) AFAIK, 0.7.3 was gone from the tree by the time 0.7.5 was hardmasked. As it is currently, 1/2 of the arches needing to act on openttd-1.0.1 stabilization have done so. So FWIW, I think that things are not as bad as you suggest. I've been doing as much as I can currently to smooth things over between you folks and the gentoo devs, so, its not as if no-one cares.
20:56:47 <Rubidium> Wizzleby: my point was that for 4 months they can live with a security issue which can be trivially exploited *without* modified binaries
20:57:09 <Wizzleby> Rubidium: and my point is, since I've started trying to smooth things over, that has changed
20:57:13 <Rubidium> but now..., after 0.7.5 got stabilised, they hardmask it
20:57:34 <Wizzleby> only two packages remain for arch teams to act on until 1.0.1 is entirely stablized
20:57:58 <Wizzleby> its still sub-optimal, that I will readily admit, but its better than when we first discussed the issue
20:58:04 <Rubidium> Wizzleby: the hardmasking on itself isn't my big problem, just their seemingly stupid reasons for (not) doing it
20:58:31 <Wizzleby> Rubidium: To which I pose no argument. I can't account for that, all I can do is attempt to rectify the situation
20:58:45 * Belugas gets the fuck-outta-heeeeere
20:58:53 <Rubidium> have a nice weekend Belugas
20:59:06 <Belugas> i will i will i will!!!
21:00:50 <Rubidium> Wizzleby: it just shows me there is no proper process for handling security issues in Gentto
21:01:39 <Wizzleby> Rubidium: there is, they just don't give a rat's arse about games security bugs (which is an issue I am aware of, and eventually aim on helping also). If it was not a game, they'd be much more responsive, which is silly I agree.
21:06:14 <Rubidium> Wizzleby: but if they don't care, they shouldn't hardmask either
21:06:44 <Rubidium> but then... Gentoo has had a hand in seeing major issues in basically non-issues and no issue with the real issue
21:08:17 <Wizzleby> Rubidium: they didn't hardmask. mr bones did at my request
21:08:39 <Wizzleby> after I informed him of the nature of the vulnerabilities
21:09:24 <Rubidium> e.g. a theoretically possible buffer overflow, only possible when using a custom language file with a string of > 2000 bytes, is seen as serious enough to actually make the effort to create a CVE record (why do that if you don't care?). And when you can possibly remotely execute code / a definite remotely exploitable buffer overflow isn't cared about.
21:10:38 <Wizzleby> Rubidium: we're on the same page that security issues related to games are not handled well. All I can do is put the same devotion towards fixing that as I have to addressing your concerns about how openttd is handled by us, which may take time, but is not something I intend to give up on
21:10:39 <Rubidium> still... the 0.7.5 issue is definitely a magnitude worse than any of the 1.0.1 issues
21:11:10 <Wizzleby> FWIW, it seems that when I applied that effort, things moved, which is at least better than them not moving.
21:11:37 <Rubidium> so "basically" (assuming packages aren't removed automatically) you'll leave people with 0.7.3 which is security wise worse than 0.7.5
21:12:02 <Rubidium> but yes, getting some movement in the repository is good
21:14:12 <Wizzleby> yes, currently, x86 and amd64 users will not see any openttd upgrade path until the x86 and amd64 teams stable the remaining two packages: opengfx and openttd. Its sad that ppc and ppc64 Arch Teams beat them to the punch, but if they don't have it addressed by tomorrow, i'm going to start asking them about it
21:14:48 <Rubidium> Wizzleby: 0.7.5 took 4 months for amd64
21:15:08 <Wizzleby> Rubidium: yeah, but catcodec only took them 1d. I'm giving them 2 till i start poking
21:15:10 <Rubidium> hmm, even more like 5 months
21:15:33 <Rubidium> catcodec is (almost) extremely trivial
21:16:13 <Wizzleby> They also reacted promptly for: grfcodec, nforenum, opensfx, and opengfx
21:16:38 <Wizzleby> I'm not sure what the hold up is for openttd and gfxcodec, but the others were prompt
21:18:14 <Rubidium> I'm wondering whether there's some sort of proces for checking which packages have requested stabilisation for a particular architecture
21:19:49 <Wizzleby> There is. Without actually discussing it with the amd64 AT, I can't speculate as to why they were so slow about openttd-0.7.5, but I intend to ask when I get the chance
21:23:04 <Wizzleby> Part of it could be a big queue, I'm seeing ~96 open STABLEREQ bugs addressed to the amd64 arch team
21:23:34 <Wizzleby> Their roster looks fairly small for handling such a widely used arch
21:23:51 <Wizzleby> roster of team members that is
21:23:53 <Rubidium> also, in theory at least, should be supportable on all platforms it supports; Debian has a compiled version for each of those architectures and I've never heard about any problems with it
21:27:50 <Wizzleby> Well, yeah. And I know for a fact that it is more than ready for stabilization on those two arches (which I actually use regularly). Each AT is composed of different folks though, and alas some seem faster to act than others. I will say that in general, the Gentoo ATs are understaffed, which has lead to a general lag into what gets a stable keyword
21:28:47 <Wizzleby> Also that discussion has been going around the developer MLs on how to address when an AT is slow to respond over such stable requests as the ones we are discussing
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22:15:42 <Jezekus> I'm little bit confused by generating random map when starting new dedicated server. It always results in same shape of map.
22:17:36 <Jezekus> I did in cfg and also by parameter -G
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22:28:21 <Rubidium> Jezekus: how do you generate the new map? By "restart"?
22:29:43 <Rubidium> there's your problem; restart is meant to start the same map again
22:30:50 <Jezekus> Rubidium: ok so I have to login to rcon a do a newgame
22:32:12 <Jezekus> Rubidium: it looks like that it worked, thanks
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