IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-05-24
⏴ go to previous day
00:05:22 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge
00:14:33 *** GhostaCoasta has joined #openttd
00:15:52 *** lobstar has joined #openttd
00:17:17 <Jolteon> silly thing didn't process it's message to move to the correct network, for some reason it joined here of it's own accord instead of the right network ;__;
00:29:21 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
01:19:18 *** Devedse has joined #openttd
01:34:26 *** Coco-Banana-Man has quit IRC
02:52:51 *** rhaeder has joined #openttd
04:15:09 *** theholyduck has joined #openttd
04:56:26 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
06:11:12 *** lasershock has joined #openttd
06:36:18 *** ^Spike^ has joined #openttd
06:37:49 *** lasershock has joined #openttd
07:15:56 *** lasershock` has joined #openttd
07:17:45 *** lasershock has joined #openttd
07:24:57 <planetmaker> care to switch off the rain? I have to go to the bakery :S
07:25:03 <planetmaker> but it's raining cats and dogs
07:25:32 <Mazur> You could go naked to the stores, here.
07:25:50 <Mazur> Tell us about it, Moiz.
07:26:22 <moiz> my problem is regarding congestion in big cities
07:26:32 <planetmaker> Mazur: I could here, too. But it'd draw more attention than I'd like and it wouldn't be comfortably warm either
07:26:44 <moiz> all the roads get blocked
07:26:51 <moiz> due to so many road vehicles
07:27:09 <moiz> well the AI makes a lot of them
07:27:15 <planetmaker> place stations and set orders more intelligently
07:27:21 <planetmaker> and avoid the routes the AI blocks
07:27:41 <moiz> how to set a route for RVs
07:27:53 <moiz> there isnt waypoints for RVs
07:28:02 <planetmaker> by placing stations and using them as waypoints
07:28:06 <moiz> they travel by their own will
07:28:07 <planetmaker> using the "go via" orders
07:29:40 <planetmaker> using one-way roads may sometimes help, too :-)
07:30:07 <moiz> well i cant make town roads one way :/
07:30:20 <planetmaker> maybe just making some single road tiles one-way so that vehicles don't go there the other direction
07:30:35 <planetmaker> I bet you can. You might need to allow building on town roads
07:30:41 <planetmaker> It's somewhere in the adv. settings
07:31:03 <moiz> i thought it only enables you to build buss bays
07:31:17 <moiz> well if we assign one way to a road
07:31:29 <moiz> only my vehicles will follow that order?
07:31:41 <planetmaker> it's a one-way road then. For everyone
07:31:56 <moiz> well this can help i guess
07:32:14 <planetmaker> it's not like one-way roads in my town need not be followed by people from other towns on visit here ;-)
07:32:56 <moiz> but it will alter the AI routes too
07:33:11 <moiz> so i was wondering... will they follow that or not..
07:34:26 <moiz> the prob i face is this that
07:34:40 <moiz> AI makes a lot of vehicles
07:35:24 <moiz> and there is like of line 50 vehicles being created
07:35:40 <planetmaker> yeah. Just don't use RV where the AI uses them in this number
07:35:50 <planetmaker> there are more profitable routes, if you use trains anyway
07:36:07 <moiz> i can limit the no of vehicles AI use
07:36:32 <moiz> because i fail to manage so much road traffic :(
07:37:01 <planetmaker> well, but RV is what AIs are best at. So if you want some competition, let them build some RV
07:37:29 <planetmaker> please avoid these silly pointless "." lines
07:38:08 <__ln__> why the hell did you type those anyway?
07:38:26 <moiz> so.. can i limit the no of bus bays a person can built in a city
07:38:42 <planetmaker> you can't limit the amout of stations per city
07:38:50 <moiz> when ever i end my statement.. i used it as a breaker
07:39:15 <planetmaker> That's why one can finish sentences with a ".".
07:39:19 <moiz> so that when the next one responds.. i can distinguisg the reply easily
07:39:32 <planetmaker> use a proper IRC client to distinguish different people
07:39:41 <planetmaker> but don't force that onto others who do
07:40:09 <moiz> well actually im using irc for the first time
07:40:25 <moiz> so dun know its rules and regulations
07:40:52 <planetmaker> you survived the first step well: you had patience. You didn't expect a reply in 2 minutes ;-)
07:41:19 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: topic [<channel>]
07:41:23 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: Don't ask to ask, just ask
07:41:36 <planetmaker> ^ also quite important
07:41:47 <planetmaker> the people can answer if they know and have time
07:42:11 <planetmaker> asking whether <someone> knows <something> about <something else> is... mostly not giving you replies you might expect
07:42:20 <moiz> and can i limit the no of buss and loading stations one can make in a specifin city.. a question..
07:42:43 <planetmaker> [09:38] <planetmaker> you can't limit the amout of stations per city
07:43:24 <moiz> amount of stations per city per player... what about it?
07:43:41 <planetmaker> note: I didn't say that you 'violated' the rule 'don't ask to ask'. It was rather an explanation what will not work
07:45:06 <planetmaker> rain stopped. I'm off to the bakery
08:11:59 *** Progman has joined #openttd
08:12:41 *** last_evolution has joined #openttd
08:24:36 *** JVassie has joined #openttd
08:28:44 *** Weeknie has joined #openttd
08:28:59 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
08:43:29 *** Alberth has joined #openttd
08:52:06 *** fonsinchen has joined #openttd
08:55:33 *** Adambean has joined #openttd
09:13:49 *** Grelouk has joined #openttd
09:22:54 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
09:27:02 *** Coco-Banana-Man has joined #openttd
09:27:46 *** [com]buster is now known as Combuster
09:44:42 *** Coco-Banana-Man has quit IRC
09:57:43 *** |Jeroen| has joined #openttd
09:58:44 <Alberth> cat test | xxd ; ssh -qt localhost cat test > xxd
10:05:12 <Alberth> too busy, last free day this week, and too many things to do
10:09:41 <moiz> i wanted to ask if you can use traffic signals GRF with openttd 1.0.1
10:10:10 <peter1138> nope, it's for a patch
10:11:36 <moiz> cant we patch openttd 1.0.1 to include it?
10:11:48 <Alberth> moiz: see, this works much better, I would not have known that answer.
10:12:41 <Alberth> traffic signals is somewhere in the development forum?
10:12:58 <moiz> yess.. openttd development
10:15:55 <Alberth> you can build your own patched version, but it is not 1.0.1 any more then
10:17:56 <Alberth> do you have an URL to the thread?
10:18:32 <peter1138> Ammler, new unix2dos tool? :p
10:18:52 *** Polygon has joined #openttd
10:19:29 <moiz> and i dun know how to patch.. :$
10:19:40 <moiz> i just know how to install GRFs
10:20:02 *** Xaroth_ has joined #openttd
10:20:26 <Ammler> I need to quote the ssh command
10:21:01 *** Devroush has joined #openttd
10:22:27 <Alberth> moiz: in the first post, at the top, there is a link to the patch and to a win32 binary.
10:22:50 <Alberth> if you are using windows, that would be an option
10:23:50 <Alberth> moiz: otherwise, first install a c++ compiler, learn how to get and compile a program, then learn to patch
10:24:12 <peter1138> Ammler, why would you add -t anyway?
10:24:36 <Ammler> I thought, that is needed to execute commands like that
10:25:20 <peter1138> -q isn't needed either...
10:25:21 <Ammler> something I once did and then automatically used always...
10:30:02 *** Xaroth_ has joined #openttd
10:40:08 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttd
10:52:55 *** welshdragon has left #openttd
10:56:49 *** |Jeroen| has joined #openttd
11:04:25 *** asnoehu has joined #openttd
11:09:29 *** last_evolution has quit IRC
11:18:16 *** last_evolution has joined #openttd
11:28:49 *** last_evolution has quit IRC
12:03:10 *** asnoehu has joined #openttd
12:05:16 *** Chruker has joined #openttd
12:16:35 *** Doorslammer has joined #openttd
12:41:08 *** asnoehu has joined #openttd
12:58:27 *** Coco-Banana-Man has joined #openttd
12:58:29 *** JostVice has joined #openttd
13:01:16 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
13:01:52 *** asnoehu has joined #openttd
13:02:31 *** asnoehu is now known as tycoondemon
13:12:04 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd
13:22:02 *** Polygon has joined #openttd
13:43:49 *** OwenS is now known as Guest1307
13:56:10 *** NukeBuster has joined #openttd
13:56:49 *** Kurimus has joined #openttd
14:03:14 *** orudge_ has joined #openttd
14:46:58 *** Devedse has joined #openttd
14:48:17 *** Dreamxtreme has joined #openttd
15:17:01 *** fonsinchen has joined #openttd
15:20:13 *** rhaeder has joined #openttd
15:38:19 *** George3 has joined #openttd
16:03:46 *** guru3_ is now known as guru3
16:15:06 *** valhallasw has joined #openttd
16:31:16 *** Chris_Booth has joined #openttd
16:34:46 *** George is now known as Guest1323
16:49:45 *** last_evolution has joined #openttd
16:50:58 *** NukeBuster has left #openttd
17:00:58 *** lobstah has joined #openttd
17:03:52 *** OsteHovel^PDA has joined #openttd
17:17:54 *** lobstar has joined #openttd
17:40:23 <__ln__> crap, flights have become even more expensive.
17:43:52 <Terkhen> planetmaker, andythenorth: how are you dealing with the create scenario and play from heightmap windows in the GUI rework?
17:44:38 <planetmaker> Terkhen: just use the very same as for new game
17:45:04 <planetmaker> with a small conditional part of the window which shows the map name + size + rotation if a map is selected
17:46:03 <Terkhen> also for creating flat land at the SE, I guess
17:47:03 <planetmaker> Yes, I'd use the very same
17:47:16 <planetmaker> makes for higher re-recognition of things
17:47:28 <planetmaker> only thing I'm not sure about is the load scenario thingy
17:48:16 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r19893 /trunk/src/lang/ (7 files): (log message trimmed)
17:48:16 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:48:16 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: danish - 22 changes by silentStatic
17:48:16 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: indonesian - 4 changes by prof
17:48:16 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: italian - 1 changes by lorenzodv
17:48:17 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: polish - 4 changes by silver_777
17:48:17 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: romanian - 6 changes by tonny
17:48:50 <Terkhen> I have tried to clone it but my internet is being stupid today :)
17:49:12 <planetmaker> I haven't actually touched that window. But it should / could link to the same
17:49:32 <planetmaker> It'd need only adding the flatland height widgets
17:49:39 <planetmaker> and the flatland widget
17:50:31 <planetmaker> It should not be a big thing. It'd just need adding those buttons and a few more conditionals
17:50:34 <Terkhen> the flat land widget could disable all widgets that are not used in that case, to make things more clear (clicking on generate would create the flat scenario)
17:50:53 <planetmaker> One thing I fear about though: It's getting a hell of a bloated window, if tabs are truely added
17:51:10 <planetmaker> Terkhen: yeah... or just add a new tab :-)
17:51:37 <planetmaker> which shows only the scenario editor things. But I guess just disabling those is in this case more logical
17:56:46 <Terkhen> for code bloatness, you could define the contents of each tab as different windows and make them work together somehow... but that would be very confusing
17:57:44 <planetmaker> Terkhen: yeah, somehow
17:58:05 <planetmaker> As I see it Alberth used some higher-order abstraction for the three window parts of the newgrf window
17:58:46 <planetmaker> Such approach might make sense, too. Though IMHO it looks codewise like stretching the window system a bit beyond what it was designed to ;-)
17:59:15 <Alberth> basically moving as much code out of the window as possible into the list handling classes, so re-use in a different window was easier
18:00:53 <planetmaker> Well, point is, that the current window system works quite well for that as it's now.
18:01:13 <planetmaker> One just has to document well which parts are responsible for which :-)
18:04:16 <planetmaker> Terkhen: if you feel like playing around with this gui restructuring, too, feel free to use that repo (once checkout works for you)
18:04:32 <Alberth> you could consider a class for each tab, and do a callback from the window based on a range of widget numbers or so
18:04:33 <planetmaker> it's a multi-head repo with several heads
18:05:05 <Alberth> does a mult-head repo with one head even exist? :p
18:05:20 <planetmaker> with one visible: yes
18:06:03 *** theholyduck has joined #openttd
18:06:30 <planetmaker> the purpose of that repo is to get several things tested out so that the single nicely small enough to be commited patches can be somewhat extracted from it
18:06:54 <planetmaker> in a separate mq repository
18:07:13 <planetmaker> so playfield vs. production so-to-speak ;-)
18:07:43 <planetmaker> in other words: feel free to give your gui ideas a try there
18:07:59 <planetmaker> and don't worry about new heads there
18:08:24 <planetmaker> but then you certainly have your own repos for that :-)
18:31:21 *** ajmiles has joined #openttd
18:36:15 <Alberth> planetmaker: basically, with the new newgrf gui tests, I introduced a function for each operation on the lists (which in normal windows lives as a blob of code in a OnClick() case), and moved those functions into the list manager classes.
18:43:36 <planetmaker> thx. I shall have a closer look at that probably, too :-)
18:45:47 *** asfsasdf has joined #openttd
18:46:27 *** asfsasdf is now known as Arie-
18:50:10 <Arie-> I had a crash, however in 1.0.1-rc2 (just noticed i was using an old version)
18:50:28 <Arie-> i'm not able to reproduce the crash, even in 1.0.1-rc2
18:51:27 <Eddi|zuHause> so do you have at least a crash.log and a crash.sav?
18:51:42 <Arie-> but i've search through bugs.openttd.org
18:51:48 <Arie-> and could not find a similar case
18:51:52 <Rubidium> and crash.dmp I hope
18:51:53 <Eddi|zuHause> then upload them to bugs.openttd.org
18:52:13 <Arie-> yes, those are there, i
18:52:34 <Arie-> 'll search through bugs.openttd.org again to be sure
18:58:03 *** George is now known as Guest1334
19:03:01 <Alberth> Arie-: by default the search excludes closed bugs, be sure to enable them being searched too
19:13:48 <Arie-> but searching for command.cpp + 666 does not give related resultsand
19:14:12 <Arie-> and the changelog from 1.0.1-rc2 -> 1.0.1 does not state a similar bug being killed
19:14:41 <Arie-> Message: Assertion failed at line 666 of ..\src\command.cpp: cmd_id == CMD_COMPANY_CTRL || old_company == _current_company
19:14:46 <Arie-> ^^ that was the message
19:14:52 <Arie-> bug report almost finished
19:15:04 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd
19:18:16 <DorpsGek> PeterT: Dalestan was last seen in #openttd 9 weeks, 1 day, 2 hours, 38 minutes, and 31 seconds ago: <DaleStan> <PeterT> Why would one have info version 5 instead of info version 7? <-- because you didn't use any Info version 6 or 7 features, and there was no header telling NFORenum to use any particular version.
19:21:01 <Alberth> PeterT: that means absolutely nothing. It is just the last time he spoke here. It has little relation to being present, especially for people saying very little here
19:21:25 <PeterT> That, in addition to the fact that he's not here now
19:22:08 <Alberth> not visibly here, at least
19:22:27 <Alberth> so if you know that, why ask dorpsgek?
19:22:28 *** Adambean has joined #openttd
19:30:35 <OwenS> It makes me wonder what NewGRF and NFORenum's bus factors are
19:31:15 <Arie-> ll check there again tomorrow might there be other questions
19:31:25 <Arie-> (this is an online IRC applet) ;)
19:32:35 <Alberth> what is a bus factor?
19:33:24 <OwenS> Alberth: The number of people that must go missing ("be hit by a bus") before something becomes unmaintainable
19:33:46 <OwenS> Or, in other words, how many people know the NewGRF specs in all their intricacies
19:35:08 <OwenS> frosch: Fractional people are allowed, I suppose :p
19:35:34 <Alberth> depends on how detailed you look, but close to 0 most likely, it is a large system built by many people over a long span of time
19:36:09 <Alberth> I don't see how a program like NFORenum is involved in the specs though
19:36:18 *** egladil has joined #openttd
19:37:01 <Alberth> On the other hand, the source code that implements the specs is freely available, so recovery of current implementation is easy
19:37:07 <OwenS> Alberth: Its not. But it is used by the vast majority of GRFs
19:37:21 <OwenS> And source code is notoriously difficult to read ;-)
19:37:52 <Alberth> any lanuage that defines the entire behavior of a spec is
19:38:25 <OwenS> True. But source code tends to be more obtuse
19:39:07 <Alberth> but it is executable, so you can throw a test case against it
19:40:24 <frosch> reading the source code is easier than writing a testcase
19:41:51 <OwenS> frosch: Even the TTDPatch source code? :p
19:42:08 <OwenS> (Being as its assembly and all)
19:42:18 <Lakie> Depending on where you read
19:42:30 <Lakie> Some sections are fairly well commented
19:42:31 *** OsteHovel^PDA has joined #openttd
19:42:36 <frosch> i could answer several questions by reading ttdp source
19:42:41 <Lakie> Others require common sense
19:42:59 <Lakie> And some just avoid, arvs in ttdpatch = avoid like plague
19:43:18 <frosch> usually i crep for the callback id, and look what is done next
19:43:21 <OsteHovel^PDA> Its technical posible to run openttd on a ARM architecture? (with correct lib's, compiler and stuff)
19:43:37 <OwenS> OsteHovel^PDA: It has been done
19:44:37 <OsteHovel^PDA> Someone got a version running on a "android"-based device?(like not using the jni interface)
19:44:46 <OwenS> Theres even a very stripped down DS port...
19:45:38 <OsteHovel^PDA> I tried before using some "unofficial" compiler & libraries...
19:46:03 <OsteHovel^PDA> I did indeed got openttd compilled (dedicated server build), but never got it running on the device
19:46:38 <glx> put on the device wiht required files?
19:47:15 <Rubidium> Debian's able to build ARM binaries (whether they are actually used in unknown to me); Maemo (which is a mobile phone derivative of Debian) has an OpenTTD port that appears to be used and Gentoo has a bug report about someone asking to ask ARM support as it works for that person
19:47:39 <OsteHovel^PDA> I did indeed copy with some libs no idea if it was all of them...
19:47:44 <OsteHovel^PDA> I was thinking of trying again
19:47:58 <OsteHovel^PDA> This time using the official ndk libraries from google (android)
19:48:07 <glx> I'm talking about graphics and sound files ;)
19:48:27 <OsteHovel^PDA> Last time i tested those was not require in a dedicated-only build
19:48:28 <glx> dedicated builds need them too
19:49:02 <OsteHovel^PDA> How does that work on one of my servers then...
19:49:08 <OsteHovel^PDA> Lol i think i know why now
19:49:18 <OsteHovel^PDA> Maybe i put them in /usr-blablabla
19:49:42 <OsteHovel^PDA> Yaya gonna test using the libraries from google
19:49:48 <OsteHovel^PDA> When i get time later this week
19:50:23 *** asnoehu has joined #openttd
19:52:39 *** Luukland has joined #openttd
19:59:40 *** asnoehu is now known as tycoondemon
20:12:05 <PeterT> the 'English only' part of the topic has been taken out, is that intentional
20:24:03 *** Luukland has joined #openttd
20:24:41 *** Grelouk has joined #openttd
20:41:55 *** ajmiles2 has joined #openttd
20:58:49 *** ajmiles has joined #openttd
21:04:56 <sailo> hey, someone here? Does anybody know a multiplayer server with active players?
21:05:26 <sailo> there are lots of games running, but nowhere is anyone actively playing.
21:05:50 <PeterT> that's sorted by most active
21:06:16 <sailo> ah, this overview is not available in the game, is it?
21:06:26 <PeterT> well, you can sort by players in game
21:16:03 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd
21:17:47 *** Westie is now known as Garsino
21:17:59 *** Garsino is now known as Westie
21:20:28 *** fonsinchen has joined #openttd
21:23:57 *** JostVice has joined #openttd
21:38:43 <Rubidium> how is DB with respect to refunds and such when an one-train-per-two-hour train is cancelled/delayed by more than 1:30 and you're missing a lot of connecting services abroad (that need reservation) because of that?
21:43:22 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
21:47:01 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i don't know the specifics, but at least a partial refund, depending on how bad it is
21:47:19 <Eddi|zuHause> situation has been significantly improved recently
21:47:29 <Rubidium> well, I'd be missing an overnight train, so definitely a lot
21:47:45 <Rubidium> unless I can take e.g. the TGV at their costs
21:48:13 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: be sure to get the train staff to sign a document that the train was left out...
21:49:44 <Eddi|zuHause> if you complain loud enough, they might even pay you the TGV ticket
21:51:19 <Eddi|zuHause> i have heard of people getting paid a taxi ride from Erfurt to Halle
21:51:37 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: it would be from Munster(Westf) to Luxembourgh :)
21:51:58 <Rubidium> 5 hours by (direct) train :)
21:52:26 <Rubidium> seems there's an indirect fallback route that might make me on time
21:52:40 <Rubidium> with two changes and no time to get dinner in Luxembourgh
21:53:20 <Eddi|zuHause> waiting 5 minutes at the döner and eat on the train?
21:53:44 <Eddi|zuHause> don't remember if there was a döner near luxemburg station
21:54:37 <Rubidium> oh, 45 minutes... that should be just enough :)
21:56:38 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i hope you make it ;)
21:56:51 <Rubidium> not even sure I'm going to do it, just researching
22:03:38 *** rhaeder has joined #openttd
22:15:54 *** LostTrustFun has joined #openttd
22:16:35 *** LostTrustFun has left #openttd
22:18:40 *** Brianetta has joined #openttd
22:30:12 *** Nite_Owl has joined #openttd
23:21:45 *** KritiK_ has joined #openttd
23:23:53 *** lolman_ has joined #openttd
23:25:06 *** ProfFrink has joined #openttd
23:25:17 *** peter1138 has joined #openttd
23:25:18 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd
23:25:18 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink
23:25:19 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o peter1138
23:25:26 *** KritiK_ is now known as KritiK
23:25:50 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
23:26:46 *** Terkhen has joined #openttd
23:27:58 *** last_evolution has quit IRC
23:28:20 *** asnoehu has joined #openttd
23:31:16 *** PierreW has joined #openttd
23:36:31 <PeterT> that netsplit essentially shows the number of europeans in this channel
23:36:44 *** michi_cc has joined #openttd
23:36:45 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v michi_cc
23:38:03 <Eddi|zuHause> that is not very true...
23:38:46 <PeterT> ret. and kinetic are euro servers, right?
23:38:51 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
23:39:19 <PeterT> and irc.oftc.net (usually) connects you to the nearest server
23:39:40 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm on canadian server
23:40:30 <Eddi|zuHause> and if the netsplit says "reticulum" and "kinetic", that means one of those is broken, not both
23:40:50 <glx> just the link between them
23:41:18 <PeterT> i thought all servers were connected to the main serv. individually
23:41:30 <glx> and usually people on the other side of the split are still in the chan (and for them we are gone)
23:42:12 <Eddi|zuHause> not necessarily a star
23:42:58 <Eddi|zuHause> and not necessarily there needs to be a "main server"
23:43:43 <Ammler> maybe a "services host"
23:44:11 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe, but i think even these may be decentralised
23:44:27 *** lasershock` has joined #openttd
23:51:24 *** lasershock has joined #openttd
continue to next day ⏵
