IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-05-23
⏴ go to previous day
00:00:19 <ccfreak2k> If it's using the IE embedded API, you're probably stuck with Gecko.
00:00:49 <ccfreak2k> If it's using a call to open an external web browser, Wine should have a configuration for it somewhere.
00:01:29 <Eddi|zuHause> i have some installers that open a "readme", then it says something about "winebrowser" and opens firefox
00:02:50 <Eddi|zuHause> guys in #winehq say something about registry key
00:03:05 <SmatZ> orudge is the wine guy here :)
00:17:14 <orudge> [18:51:46] <Eddi|zuHause> how do i tell wine to use konqueror as browser instead of firefox? <-- basically, it just opens whatever the default browser is on your system
00:17:59 <Eddi|zuHause> orudge: apparently it has a predefined list of browsers in the registry key, and it will take the first one that works
00:18:16 <orudge> hmm, maybe things have changed since I last looked at that
00:28:22 *** Fast2_ is now known as Fast2
00:29:14 *** Mikhailjrjrsmo has joined #openttd
01:29:43 <SmatZ> --18125-- VALGRIND INTERNAL ERROR: Valgrind received a signal 11 (SIGSEGV) - exiting
01:30:05 <SmatZ> it's so easily killed by hand-written asm :-/
02:12:04 *** Mikhailjrjrsmo has quit IRC
02:19:12 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
02:26:01 *** rhaeder1 has joined #openttd
03:14:40 *** robotboy has joined #openttd
04:56:25 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
05:11:26 *** robotboy has joined #openttd
05:32:12 *** roboboy has joined #openttd
06:35:46 *** ^Spike^ has joined #openttd
06:41:39 *** einKarl has joined #openttd
06:52:20 *** Alberth has joined #openttd
06:52:53 * andythenorth has an evil idea
06:53:34 <andythenorth> town growth cargos could be faked by having FIRS town industries produce passengers at varying levels (general store etc.)
06:54:38 <Alberth> evil seems like the right description to me :)
06:54:59 *** Weeknie has joined #openttd
06:55:45 <Alberth> so how are houses really different from industry?
06:55:57 <andythenorth> no production callback
06:56:11 <Alberth> ie could we make a town consisting of industry that looks like houses?
06:56:11 <andythenorth> only 2x2 max dimensions
06:56:34 <andythenorth> it would do some conceptual damage to the industry mini-map though :P
06:56:39 <andythenorth> and to the industry list
06:56:50 <Alberth> houses are probably a bit cheaper in cpu time
06:57:40 <andythenorth> we could make the whole town as an industry....
06:58:04 <Alberth> if you let go of arganic growth ;)
06:58:54 <Alberth> with the square-ish road styles, that may make sense
06:59:16 <Alberth> one industry for one square
07:00:39 <andythenorth> 7x7 industries: four 3x3 blocks with a + shaped gap for roads
07:02:05 <andythenorth> why are we planning this escapade?
07:02:11 <andythenorth> thought experiment?
07:06:42 <Alberth> just wondering about houses versus industries
07:07:00 <Alberth> and you having an evil idea, of course
07:19:16 <andythenorth> morning planetmaker
07:19:29 <andythenorth> what do you think about implementing towns as industries? :P
07:20:28 <Weeknie> Just a quick question, what are cargo ID's precisely?
07:21:00 <planetmaker> :-P andythenorth great idea. Then we finally could found Wolfsburg ;-)
07:21:17 <andythenorth> Weeknie: in what context?
07:21:25 <andythenorth> they can be at least two things
07:21:34 <Weeknie> andythenorth, in the context of NFO rules and defining a vehicle
07:21:50 <andythenorth> probably the ID of the action 2 or varaction 2
07:21:57 <Weeknie> Unde "using actions 2 and 3"
07:22:12 <andythenorth> unless you are working with actual cargo slots / IDs
07:22:37 <andythenorth> the TTDP wiki refers to action 2 IDs as cargo IDs a lot, for historical reasons
07:23:32 <andythenorth> it's easier to think of them as action 2 IDs, unless you are actually doing something with 'coal' (or 'goods' or whatever)
07:24:22 <Weeknie> Quite confusing, but I'll keep that in mind
07:25:27 *** |Jeroen| has joined #openttd
07:26:02 <andythenorth> TTO secondary industry supplies some cargo even if unsupplied
07:26:11 <andythenorth> is that a nice feature?
07:26:53 <__ln__> what is a secondary industry?
07:27:04 <andythenorth> factory, steel mill, food processing plant
07:27:20 <Weeknie> Primary are things like farms, that produce without supplies
07:27:29 <Weeknie> Secondary take primary goods and turn them into secondary and so on
07:28:08 <Weeknie> I don't know if you also refer to things like power plant as final industries, but f you do, final industries take goods without producing
07:28:13 <__ln__> ah, secondary in that sense.
07:32:31 <Weeknie> __ln__, in what sense did you think then?
07:38:49 <Weeknie> What number should I give for version in my action 8?
07:39:02 <Weeknie> (since they refer to TTDPatch versions, not openTTD)
07:39:21 <Weeknie> Does doesn't OTTD care about them, because of what I just mentioned
07:40:07 <andythenorth> Weeknie: have a look on the coop devzone for examples
07:40:31 <andythenorth> I don't know....I just copy and paste :P
07:41:28 <Weeknie> Oh great, page isn't loading (problem on my side though)
07:41:49 <Weeknie> Whole internet is down
07:42:17 <andythenorth> dns failure perhaps
07:43:59 <Weeknie> Lol, well, first it wasn't a dns failure
07:44:12 <Weeknie> An instant dns failure though
07:45:06 <Weeknie> But erm, andythenorth, could you perhaps tell me?:P
07:45:19 <Weeknie> Or will I just have to wait untill my dns is finally workingz again
07:45:31 <andythenorth> Looks like I'm using version 7
07:48:25 <planetmaker> version7 is the latest newgrf version. You want that usually
07:48:52 <Weeknie> Oh damn this is irritating, not having internet...
07:49:19 <Weeknie> Any idea why my nforenum keeps saying that the file doesn't appear to be a NFO file, though it most certainly is?
07:49:33 <planetmaker> yes. missing header
07:49:33 <Weeknie> What does it expect to find?
07:50:11 <planetmaker> don't touch the first four lines
07:52:41 <Weeknie> Might have internet there
07:54:29 * andythenorth wonders how many tiles for a petrol station?
07:57:47 <Alberth> 1x2 would give you nice entry and exit lanes
07:58:23 <andythenorth> wonder if I can restrict layouts by date?
07:59:15 <Alberth> I was thinking that too some weeks ago, it would be great if we can have different styles of houses depending on when they are built
07:59:41 <Alberth> it is just too many graphics, I guess :)
08:00:45 <andythenorth> default game does it to some extent
08:01:37 <planetmaker> It's just that industries cannot change their size according to date
08:01:50 <planetmaker> I guess with some animation hack you could change their looks by date
08:02:07 <Alberth> draw some green tiles in the first years :)
08:02:10 <planetmaker> houses can use the latter, too
08:02:15 <andythenorth> just use regular varaction 2 and check the date, it's easy
08:02:20 <planetmaker> Alberth: yes, just plain ground tiles
08:02:23 * andythenorth likes being able to say "it's easy"
08:02:37 <planetmaker> the only problem with that is: the player will see them as plain ground tile, too :-)
08:02:59 <planetmaker> so you have to start big already :-)
08:03:23 <planetmaker> it might be more interesting to grow :-P
08:03:37 <andythenorth> even if expansion was possible in code, it wouldn't work in gameplay
08:03:56 <andythenorth> it would too often be blocked by stations, routes, immovables, terrain, houses
08:04:12 <andythenorth> it's TMWFTLB even though I would like the feature in principle
08:04:49 <Alberth> grey street tiles would be better, which you can later turn into buildings
08:06:06 <Alberth> 'industry buys ground claims ground from company X'
08:07:14 <planetmaker> Well, the idea to use *any* ground tiles makes sense
08:07:39 <planetmaker> it doesn't make sense to use concrete ground tiles for the places an open pit has not yet expanded to
08:07:42 <Alberth> hmm, what about moving the industry?
08:08:04 <Alberth> or extending at a second site?
08:08:46 <planetmaker> moving is not necessarily nice, if you have it in your station coverage area :-)
08:09:14 <planetmaker> that'd again result in too much micromanagement
08:09:35 <planetmaker> and it's not like one can build fully a bigger map within the game speed anyway
08:12:18 <Alberth> what about the player needing to make room for expansion? ie the manufacturer asks the player to make room. if he complies, he gets a bigger factory. If not, he doesn't
08:13:37 <planetmaker> that'd be somewhat against the game concept: transport
08:14:53 <andythenorth> I thought of overbuildable industry tiles....but that has problems too
08:15:03 <andythenorth> I think we get industries at the size we get them :)
08:15:29 * Alberth agrees, it gets quite complicated otherwise
08:16:12 <andythenorth> if FIRS has 'expanding' industries I'll do it with some empty tiles that get filled over time
08:16:21 <planetmaker> well, allowing an action2 to reserve more tiles?
08:16:26 <planetmaker> That *could* somehow work
08:16:46 <planetmaker> to build another layout over the exiting one.
08:16:53 <planetmaker> Layout-change callback
08:17:08 <planetmaker> if there's no space: nothing happens
08:18:10 <andythenorth> 'try and add a small block of tiles nearby' might work
08:18:15 <andythenorth> like 1x2 or something
08:18:30 <andythenorth> but it's completely *not* how current layout code works :o
08:18:53 <planetmaker> that's why I proposed a "new layout" callback - or however that may work :-)
08:19:31 <andythenorth> would be easier to just close and reopen
08:19:38 * planetmaker adds that to the list of grf features :-)
08:19:40 <andythenorth> which is more plausible
08:19:44 <planetmaker> andythenorth: that generates news messages
08:19:50 <planetmaker> and I don't find it more plausible ;-)
08:20:12 <andythenorth> code wise? check if new layout fits. If yes, close industry, rebuild industry
08:20:13 <planetmaker> why do you find it more plausible?
08:20:25 <andythenorth> it's one of the few bits of ottd where I'm familiar with the source
08:20:27 <planetmaker> yes, implementation-wise I imagine it that way
08:20:35 <planetmaker> just that everything else is kept
08:20:49 <planetmaker> no re-random, no reset of stockpiles etc
08:21:00 <andythenorth> copy properties to new industry
08:21:01 <planetmaker> so "just" change layout
08:21:27 <planetmaker> though we really don't found it newly, thus don't want to announce it as "new industry"
08:21:34 <andythenorth> suppress the message
08:21:58 <andythenorth> expansion is something I thought about a lot. I'm not sure what it really adds to gameplay though
08:22:01 <planetmaker> and that's where we then are at "new layout" :-)
08:22:24 <planetmaker> which shares a lot o code with "new industry" - but not everything
08:22:34 <Alberth> andythenorth: it is probably more than just suppressing the message
08:22:37 <andythenorth> 'close and rebuild' also solves the 'replace this industry with a different one' case
08:23:02 <planetmaker> andythenorth: it doesn't, if subsequent "can place there" checks fail
08:23:11 <planetmaker> e.g. due to mutual distance restrictions or so
08:23:19 <andythenorth> that would have to run before closure
08:24:03 *** Progman has joined #openttd
08:24:15 <planetmaker> You got a point with the substitution by another industry
08:25:37 * Alberth imagines: every ten year we replace every industry by a random different one
08:26:00 <yorick> then you build a station, and your industry has changed
08:26:09 <yorick> (factory -> coal mine)
08:26:23 <Alberth> and your trains are all wrong
08:26:35 <yorick> unless you have conditional orders
08:26:52 <Terkhen> that's really evil :)
08:27:01 <planetmaker> lol, make for a nice challange :-P
08:27:12 <andythenorth> the real case was something like quarry -> landfill
08:27:35 <planetmaker> andythenorth: can't you do that already?
08:27:48 <planetmaker> Everything except the name?
08:27:50 *** Weeknie has joined #openttd
08:27:57 <andythenorth> depends on how many cargos you need to accept / produce
08:27:59 <planetmaker> or can accepted cargo not be changed
08:28:17 <yorick> planetmaker: I think it can...see ISR
08:28:18 <planetmaker> so there's the limit of 2 / 3 cargos
08:28:19 <andythenorth> acceptance can be enabled / disabled
08:28:30 <planetmaker> yorick: ISR = stations
08:28:55 <andythenorth> think of the minimap. I want to find a landfill, but they are all named quarry
08:29:09 <planetmaker> have a coffee ;-)
08:29:11 <andythenorth> or they could be 'quarry / landfill'. but which are they actually :P
08:29:28 <andythenorth> expansion...what gameplay effect does it actually have?
08:29:30 <planetmaker> andythenorth: yes, but otherwise, assuming that amount of cargos is not a problem?
08:29:48 <andythenorth> planetmaker: it's fine, just....low quality :o
08:30:20 <andythenorth> expansion has *no* gameplay effect?
08:30:30 <planetmaker> you could make it one:
08:30:36 <Terkhen> the tiles for expanding the industry would already be empty industrytiles or the industry would need to check if the required tiles are free?
08:30:38 <planetmaker> high production only with high land usage
08:30:48 <planetmaker> so it's in the hand of the newgrf author
08:31:08 <planetmaker> Terkhen: the idea is possibly to get the latter
08:31:15 <planetmaker> the first is already readily possible
08:31:35 <planetmaker> (we're just phatasizing here right now)
08:31:45 <planetmaker> arg *phantasizing
08:31:46 <andythenorth> I can see a use for quarries etc
08:32:13 <planetmaker> andythenorth: you asked for animations with industries
08:32:22 <planetmaker> ECS has quite a lot of moving vehicles in their industries
08:32:27 <planetmaker> you might want to look there
08:32:35 <Terkhen> hmmm... when I'm playing road/tram only, the industries are usually "jailed" into my network
08:32:38 <planetmaker> and actually it looks quite nice there
08:32:42 <andythenorth> I know how to do the animations, they are just bonkers
08:32:52 <andythenorth> I have to define an awful lot of tile action 2s
08:33:06 *** last_evolution has joined #openttd
08:33:25 <andythenorth> is expansion mostly just eye candy?
08:33:57 <planetmaker> [10:30] <planetmaker> high production only with high land usage
08:33:58 <Terkhen> I like the "high production only with high land usage" idea, specially for farms
08:33:58 <planetmaker> [10:30] <planetmaker> so it's in the hand of the newgrf author
08:34:41 <andythenorth> Terkhen: do you think routing would get hard / annoying with very large industries?
08:34:42 <Terkhen> couldn't you fake this by making these industries more probable to appear near industries of its type that have an high rating?
08:35:04 <planetmaker> :-) that's a nice idea
08:35:17 <andythenorth> can't check properties at other industries (very annoying)
08:35:30 <Terkhen> andythenorth: no, I just think I'd need to change the way I build my networks
08:35:32 <planetmaker> ah, another feature request :-P
08:35:43 <andythenorth> I've asked for that one n+1 times.
08:35:50 <andythenorth> it's generally thought to be a bad idea
08:36:12 <Rubidium> that just makes industries extremely unlikely to be constructed
08:36:20 <andythenorth> even though it's already possible to check the layout, and the var has 'bits reserved for future use' :P
08:36:51 <andythenorth> I'm going to implement clustering in FIRS anyway for farms etc
08:37:01 <andythenorth> I know how to handle it
08:37:02 <Rubidium> and checking other industries means callbacks get considerably more time consuming
08:37:44 <andythenorth> I can see how it could be abused and become insanely cpu intensive
08:38:07 <Rubidium> just look at the insane time required to build a full set of ECS industries
08:38:23 <andythenorth> that's not the abuse I was thinking of
08:39:06 <andythenorth> if standard graphics action 2 always used var 68....that could be bad
08:39:15 <andythenorth> especially if multiple var 68 calls were in the chain
08:39:44 <andythenorth> "every time I draw graphics look up 1 gazillion things at other industries" :P
08:46:05 * andythenorth wonders if the fields patch by frosch123 allows tiles to write to industry storage....
08:46:45 <andythenorth> it can access many industry vars so probably
08:47:46 <andythenorth> Terkhen: if the fields patch from frosch123 was finished....I think farm production could depend on industry 'size'
08:49:44 <Terkhen> hmm... it is a good idea, but (standard) farm fields take up a lot of space in the map: it would be too hard to build without reducing the farm production
08:50:18 <andythenorth> it's a better route than filling the map with large blocks of tiles that can't be built over
08:50:57 <Terkhen> I just think you should use smaller fields (2x2 maybe)
08:51:31 <andythenorth> I am looking at a farm that has >300 tiles of fields. If each contributed 5t production *on top* of default production...you would have to build over a lot of them to cut production significantly
08:51:38 <planetmaker> they're small compared to the buildings
08:51:55 <planetmaker> the default field sizes IMHO match the game quite well
08:53:24 <andythenorth> I think the 'fields' patch would also be the best way to handle 'expansion'
08:53:39 <andythenorth> as long as it's ok to overbuild industry buildings :P
08:55:38 <planetmaker> actually... yeah, why not :-)
08:55:45 <planetmaker> overbuilding buildings. Can be done
08:57:33 <andythenorth> work in progress
08:57:41 <andythenorth> causes the game to go....'boom'
09:03:15 <planetmaker> I need a pointer on how to ensure that the bounding box for a string gets adopted properly, if the string changes
09:03:42 <planetmaker> or alternatively: how I make the bounding box such that it matches the maximum string size (it accepts two numerical parameters)
09:06:05 <planetmaker> I can hack in a fixed string when calculating the bounding box. But that might be... sub-optimal...
09:06:15 <Alberth> call GetStringBoundingBox() with two sufficiently large (in pixels) numerical parameters
09:06:16 <planetmaker> is there any language which uses non-arabic numbers?
09:06:50 <planetmaker> yes, in principle. But ingame :-)
09:09:43 *** fonsinchen has joined #openttd
09:10:20 <planetmaker> hm... giving the max. numbers is too easy, I guess. And it even works :-)
09:12:51 <yorick> I think a literal nfo sprite thingy would be nice for nml
09:14:49 *** lasershock` has joined #openttd
09:15:50 <yorick> as in nfo { 00 00 01 01 XX XX 12 FD }
09:20:10 *** lasershock has joined #openttd
09:23:27 *** [com]buster has joined #openttd
09:26:23 *** _fonsinchen has joined #openttd
09:26:46 *** _fonsinchen is now known as fonsinchen
09:27:56 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttd
09:57:09 *** Fast2__ has joined #openttd
09:59:06 *** Fast2__ is now known as Fast2
09:59:44 <andythenorth> planetmaker: regarding general stores....you would prefer players to be able to build them adjacent?
10:00:10 <andythenorth> it's possible. but it's more work than just setting prop 16 :P
10:00:28 <andythenorth> if you do the work....I'll include it :P
10:00:49 <andythenorth> there is already a stub for location-based restrictions
10:00:56 <planetmaker> not being able to get the map one wants leaves one frustrated
10:01:09 <planetmaker> restrictions for the game: fine
10:01:16 <planetmaker> restrictions for the player: not so fine
10:01:33 <planetmaker> if they build something they usually know exactly where they want it
10:02:06 <planetmaker> it should just be an additional action2 call, shouldn't it?
10:02:17 <planetmaker> when deciding placement?
10:02:19 <andythenorth> we need something in trunk first....let me see
10:03:38 <planetmaker> ok, forgot about that not being yet available
10:03:40 <andythenorth> it needs to be available during the location cb
10:03:52 <andythenorth> it just needs a dev to commit it :)
10:04:40 *** |Jeroen| has joined #openttd
10:07:00 <andythenorth> which is most generic:
10:07:22 <andythenorth> Filling Station / Gas Station / Petrol Station / Fuel Station
10:08:40 <andythenorth> Lego calls them Service Stations (and they sell internationally)
10:10:29 <andythenorth> |Jeroen|: which side of the atlantic are you on?
10:13:10 <andythenorth> wikipedia thinks they are most commonly Filling Stations
10:14:12 <planetmaker> andythenorth: gas station = AE, petrol station = BE
10:14:15 <planetmaker> that's what I learnt
10:14:24 *** Brianetta has joined #openttd
10:14:35 <andythenorth> and your preference? as I am about to add files to FIRS repo...
10:14:36 <planetmaker> so use either. As the game uses BE, I'd use petrol station
10:15:11 <andythenorth> my game has 'color' not 'colour'
10:15:30 <planetmaker> that's a bug IMHO
10:15:33 * andythenorth changes language settings back to UK English
10:15:35 <planetmaker> there's a special AE translation
10:15:49 <andythenorth> FIRS can support US English if it's defined?
10:16:03 <planetmaker> but then the user has to have AE selected
10:16:28 <planetmaker> but the default should always be BE
10:16:44 <planetmaker> that's the specs :-)
10:16:50 <andythenorth> we have Aluminium not Aluminum so I guess FIRS is BE
10:17:07 <planetmaker> it *should*. Even if it was aluminum ;-)
10:17:13 <planetmaker> aluminum is only AE
10:17:42 <planetmaker> what are translations for otherwise, if you don't obey what they shall translate into?
10:18:16 <andythenorth> funny thing is, I call them gas station as often as I call them petrol station :p
10:18:54 <andythenorth> it's always diesel I need anyway
10:19:02 <Alberth> you just haven't made up your mind on what they actually sell :)
10:21:12 <andythenorth> adding another small town building brings up the fun question of map colours again :o
10:21:25 <andythenorth> building / industry /s
10:34:08 *** ajmiles has joined #openttd
10:43:41 <andythenorth> house tiles can't accept more than 3 cargos?
10:48:13 <planetmaker> they're even more restricted actually
10:48:42 <planetmaker> though via callback flag you get basically what you get for industries
10:50:29 <asilv> 3/cargoes per tile, so multitile houses can accept more than 3
10:52:05 *** Fast2_ is now known as Fast2
10:52:13 <planetmaker> so a big mall can accept like 12 cargos :-)
11:02:51 <andythenorth> so a 2 tile filling station could accept Fuel Oil, Food, Goods, PAX, Mail...
11:03:14 <andythenorth> chemicals? ENSP?
11:04:27 <andythenorth> flowers we could add :P
11:05:05 <Rubidium> money, but only when passengers from a "robbery vehicle" are accepted
11:09:48 <Eddi|zuHause> wtf is it with forums disabling search for guests?
11:10:29 <FauxFaux> It's an expensive operation!
11:10:42 <Rubidium> probably their way of ensuring a steady stream of personal information to sell
11:18:15 *** Weeknie has joined #openttd
11:23:45 *** JVassie has joined #openttd
11:33:31 <planetmaker> I'm trying to print a literal string wich I hoped would work by SetDParam(0, "some string");
11:33:44 <planetmaker> obviously that doesn't work this way as the 2nd param is an uint64
11:34:31 <Rubidium> you need a {RAW_STRING} in english.txt for those strings though
11:36:19 <planetmaker> that can be done and is fine
11:37:27 <Ammler> joining clients are already counted as active_clients, is that intended?
11:39:07 <Rubidium> only when their status is STATUS_ACTIVE
11:39:10 <Ammler> it does unpause the server when they join
11:39:41 <Ammler> so a slow client does unpause the server until it disconnects
11:40:17 * andythenorth wonders if Gas Stations need to be road-aware?
11:40:57 <Rubidium> Ammler: I have clue what could even explain that behaviour
11:42:43 <andythenorth> there's no way to place a road tile when placing an industry. So gas station entrances won't connect to road tiles unless the player connects them :o
11:44:50 <Ammler> andythenorth: shouldn't that be a house anyway?
11:46:18 <andythenorth> well maybe. Go 'vote' in the FIRS thread if you wish :)
11:47:11 <Ammler> what is the difference?
11:47:56 <andythenorth> it comes down to: would you rather be able to bulldoze or construct?
11:49:12 <planetmaker> hm... alignment of strings is a bitch :S
11:51:15 <Ammler> magic_bulldozer, so industries is indeed better
11:52:30 <Ammler> does a industry also bulldoze houses to make space for construction?
11:54:05 <Ammler> but one "nice" behavior houses have, they can disappear, also if serviced...
11:56:26 *** Devroush has joined #openttd
11:58:54 <Wasila> The 32bpp automated bundle is now officially compatible with trunk!
12:01:58 *** lasershock has joined #openttd
12:04:19 <asilv> so, from houseset point of view, are there other newcargoes in addition to tourists and fuel oil/petrol that should be accepted by houses?
12:07:14 <Eddi|zuHause> coal (for city houses built before 1960)
12:07:58 <planetmaker> goods and food don't count as 'new cargos', right?
12:08:24 <planetmaker> they *could* accept 'cement'
12:08:39 <planetmaker> or clay for years < 1700 :-P
12:09:15 *** last_evolution has quit IRC
12:10:10 <asilv> almost all houses accept food, and many accept goods, so I didn't mention then
12:10:56 <asilv> i was mostly thinking about special cargoes that would be accepted by just a couple special houses
12:11:05 <asilv> that is actually done already
12:11:33 <asilv> and diamonds and gold too
12:11:34 <planetmaker> do you also accept gold
12:12:08 <asilv> the bank also produses valuables
12:12:18 <planetmaker> I know. But that's an industry
12:13:01 <asilv> as it makes compability with industry sets easier
12:13:10 <planetmaker> will your bank come and go, or will it be a reliable destination?
12:13:52 <asilv> it stays forever if not destoroyed by player or ai
12:14:09 <asilv> (not sure about ai part)
12:15:11 *** lobster has joined #openttd
12:17:01 <asilv> i'm a bit worried if bank as a house will confuse players who are used to having it as industry, and if industry set llike FIRS is used it actually won't accept or produce anything which may seem strange too
12:17:16 <Alberth> planetmaker: perhaps banks should close when a depression happens :p
12:21:44 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19885 /trunk/src/console_cmds.cpp: -Fix [FS#3761]: allow loading savegames from the console without specifying the ".sav" extension, i.e. make it consistent with saving savegames from the console
12:24:48 *** TrueBrain has joined #openttd
12:27:01 <planetmaker> can I tell a string to be right-aligned?
12:27:29 <planetmaker> a string widget that is
12:28:34 <Alberth> but you can make an as small widget as possible, and push it to the right with a spacer widget
12:28:54 <Alberth> or you can make another widget type ;)
12:28:57 <planetmaker> well... the string length is not fixed
12:29:08 <planetmaker> so... widget type would seem like the solution
12:29:34 <planetmaker> but I hoped there'd be a thing like SetRightAligned(), or so :-)
12:29:50 <Alberth> perhaps unify both label widgets to a more general solution
12:29:53 <planetmaker> or rather for WWT_TEXT, RIGHT_ALIGN...
12:30:06 <Alberth> then find all right-aligned cases, and rewrite that code
12:30:26 <Alberth> yep, some additional option, like with the containers
12:30:39 <planetmaker> both label widgets = WWT_TEXT and WWT_LABEL ?
12:30:54 <Alberth> afaik they are the same, except for alignment
12:31:06 <Alberth> but you should check that of course
12:31:14 <planetmaker> I'll look at that :-) Thanks
12:31:53 *** lasershock has joined #openttd
12:32:06 <Alberth> don't say that too soon, it may be a lot of work ;)
12:32:51 <planetmaker> ignore the size string in the 2nd line
12:33:20 <planetmaker> I think it looks better if name and size are in the same line
12:33:57 *** Coco-Banana-Man has joined #openttd
12:35:08 *** Fast2_ is now known as Fast2
12:37:20 <Alberth> just the size: string? I'd push all labels to their button
12:37:59 <planetmaker> you mean right-align the button labels?
12:38:23 <Alberth> most likely, those things are handled by DrawWidget code, and 'manually' drawing the string right-aligned
12:38:33 <planetmaker> I talked previously about the heightmap size string (orange, on the right over heightmap rotation)
12:39:37 <Alberth> why not left-align with the rotation button under it?
12:40:33 <planetmaker> I didn't want to do that as the heightmap title might be longer
12:40:38 <planetmaker> otherwise: no reason
12:47:03 *** lasershock has joined #openttd
12:47:25 *** mikegrb_ has joined #openttd
12:48:06 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd
12:49:39 *** Kovensky has joined #openttd
12:51:38 *** mikegrb_ is now known as mikegrb
12:53:02 *** Chillosophy has joined #openttd
12:55:20 *** reven123 has joined #openttd
12:55:38 <reven123> question: how do i convert grf to tar?
12:56:36 <reven123> but in openttd v1.0 my new grf menu cant find files unless they are tar formats
12:56:59 <Rubidium> then don't put it in the content download, but data directory
12:59:19 <Rubidium> then you're doing something wrong (tm)
12:59:26 <Rubidium> or in other words: it works for me
12:59:27 <reven123> it cant see grf files for some reason
12:59:52 <reven123> no its not about the coding
13:00:17 <reven123> i load new grfs from the gui inside openttd
13:00:42 <reven123> but the gui cant see grf files for some reason. only tar files
13:01:08 <reven123> like its only searching for tar files withouth givig me options to change that
13:01:22 <reven123> what version are you running rub*?
13:01:25 <glx> it searches in all locations
13:01:37 <planetmaker> :-D reven123 the question should be vice versa
13:01:38 <Rubidium> anything from 0.7.0 to recent trunk
13:01:46 <reven123> i think i have a different version then you then
13:02:16 <reven123> or maybe im just a noob
13:02:39 <reven123> how do i convert noob to tar?
13:02:56 <planetmaker> it's a archiving programme
13:03:11 <SmatZ> nicknames matching mask "*123" should be reserved for frochs
13:03:19 <reven123> tar didnt want to archive grf files
13:03:33 <planetmaker> reven123: tar packs *everything*
13:03:43 <Rubidium> 14:59 <@Rubidium> then you're doing something wrong (tm)
13:03:58 *** Devedse has joined #openttd
13:04:25 <planetmaker> If I did it wrong I could probably even tar the device file for my keyboard
13:04:32 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: frosch123 was last seen in #openttd 15 hours, 13 minutes, and 20 seconds ago: <frosch123> night
13:05:06 <Rubidium> anyhow, to answer the first question... you make tars with a tool called tar
13:05:34 <Rubidium> which is installed by default in all but one major OS
13:06:03 <planetmaker> windows is the one which doesn't know it by default
13:06:52 <planetmaker> just use 7zip to get your tar.
13:06:58 <glx> 7zip is the only archive tool needed for windows (it handles every format)
13:07:23 *** Adambean has joined #openttd
13:08:01 <glx> there's even a 64bit version
13:09:21 <planetmaker> hm... the blitter should become a GUI option :-)
13:10:19 <Rubidium> changing the blitter in-game is far from trivial; it's like changing the video backend in-game
13:10:43 <planetmaker> I thought about the same place as base set selection
13:10:59 <planetmaker> but currently it's not user-friendly to use or not use 32bpp sprites
13:11:09 <Rubidium> planetmaker: that doesn't require reloading the video backend
13:11:27 <planetmaker> how do I switch that w/o changing blitter?
13:11:39 <Rubidium> you can't (at the moment)
13:12:28 <reven123> 7zip did the job in 1 sec
13:12:35 <reven123> everything works perfectly
13:12:46 <planetmaker> ok. Then... switching 32bpp / 8bpp is what I really want / need :-)
13:13:05 <planetmaker> as it's like switching grfs, but w/o trouble wrt the game state
13:13:22 <glx> but grf are not forced to be in a tar
13:13:38 <planetmaker> hm... and I could steal straw bales from 32bpp...
13:14:48 <planetmaker> and I actually like the ore mine more :-)
13:15:04 <Ammler> you can't legally steal there I fear, they don't use any license
13:15:05 <planetmaker> and the availability of the trunk-compatible 32bpp pack actually made me try it ingame :-)
13:15:16 <planetmaker> yeah, that's true, I fear, too
13:15:40 *** ajmiles2 has joined #openttd
13:15:58 <planetmaker> they should quickly change to gpl ;-)
13:16:12 <Rubidium> Ammler: there not being a license makes it easier to steal (in the legal sense of the word)
13:16:50 <Ammler> steal has another meaning in the ttd world :-P
13:17:16 <Ammler> as some steal goods from others on a MP game
13:17:36 <Rubidium> that's not stealing, but competition
13:18:02 <planetmaker> tell that some players :-)
13:18:49 *** ajmiles3 has joined #openttd
13:23:19 *** ajmiles has joined #openttd
13:33:39 *** fonsinchen has joined #openttd
13:50:27 *** last_evolution has joined #openttd
14:04:03 *** Chruker has joined #openttd
14:16:06 *** Weeknie has joined #openttd
14:20:39 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
14:25:55 <planetmaker> http://img.openttdcoop.org/images/bildsctpt.png <-- should adding the extra widget for the darker inset be one of the first patches or should that rather be a later one (so that the window re-work works without that newly re-coloured inset widget, or doesn't it matter at all?
14:32:21 <Alberth> it should be near of be part of a patch that changes the window structure imho. When exactly it happens is not very important
14:33:01 *** rhaeder has joined #openttd
14:34:46 <planetmaker> ok... Then I guess I'll have that the first of my patch queue. It avoids subsequent changes to widget types
14:53:52 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r19886 /trunk/src/ (window.cpp window_gui.h): -Add [FS#3705]: Perform window callback during mouse dragging for the purpose of highlighting the destination (sbr).
14:59:41 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r19887 /trunk/bin/ai/regression/regression.txt: -Fix (r19881): Update regression.
15:02:38 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r19888 /trunk/src/ (depot_gui.cpp train_gui.cpp vehicle_gui.h): -Add [FS#3705]: Add highlighting of drag destination in depot gui (sbr).
15:06:56 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r19889 /trunk/src/order_gui.cpp: -Add [FS#3705]: Add drag destination highlighting to order gui (sbr).
15:17:18 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r19890 /trunk/src/town_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Use real spritewidths for drawing town authority window.
15:26:11 <planetmaker> [17:25] <snc> Message: Assertion failed at line 80 of /home/openttd/svn-public/src/pbs.cpp: (GetTileTrackStatus(tile, TRANSPORT_RAIL, 0) & TrackToTrackBits(t)) != 0
15:26:33 <snc> we removed pbs signals of a two-way roro
15:27:52 <SmatZ> planetmaker: do you have crash.sav too?
15:28:00 <planetmaker> possibly on the server
15:28:07 <SmatZ> it crashes on its own :)
15:28:17 *** ajmiles2 has joined #openttd
15:28:47 <SmatZ> planetmaker: 143.sav is broken too...
15:30:24 <SmatZ> planetmaker: 142.sav is OK
15:30:58 <SmatZ> planetmaker: will you open a bugreport?
15:31:32 <planetmaker> but no crash.sav there or needed?
15:31:48 *** Barbaar has joined #openttd
15:31:58 <SmatZ> planetmaker: it is reproducible from the save... maybe it would be nice to upload last fine save (142) too
15:32:16 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge
15:32:34 <Rubidium> by any change have logged the commands?
15:33:07 <SmatZ> it seems to have something to do with crashed train
15:33:20 <SmatZ> #5 HandleCrashedTrain (v=<value optimized out>, mode=<value optimized out>) at /home/smatz/openttd/rev/src/train_cmd.cpp:3586
15:33:21 <planetmaker> I'll try to gather all info
15:34:00 <Rubidium> maybe, but... if actions are needed to get into the crashing state, the actions (i.e. command log) would be quite useful
15:34:54 *** tycoondemon has left #openttd
15:34:54 *** tycoondemon has joined #openttd
15:42:35 *** JostVice has joined #openttd
15:44:55 *** ajmiles has joined #openttd
15:47:49 <planetmaker> Rubidium: SmatZ: all info I have are in FS3856
15:48:12 <planetmaker> Older savegames and logs are available, if needed
15:48:56 *** ajmiles3 has joined #openttd
15:55:37 <Yexo> hello Alberth and planetmaker
15:56:23 <planetmaker> SmatZ: Rubidium I'm surprised about that the game uses nutracks-r8
15:56:42 <planetmaker> That's not intended actually... maybe the cause for the assertion is in that (early) version of the newgrf
16:01:05 <andythenorth> if I had a bigger terminal window, I'd be able to see FIRS compile errors without scrolling :P
16:02:08 * andythenorth is confused about grep
16:02:26 <andythenorth> make install | grep warning will show the line "Warning on sprite 1192 (level 1)."
16:02:41 <andythenorth> but make install | grep error won't show "make: [firs.nfo] Error 3 (ignored)"
16:03:14 <Yexo> grep is case sensitive by default
16:07:34 *** Fast2__ has joined #openttd
16:11:42 <andythenorth> still doesn't find it
16:12:42 <andythenorth> judging by aerial photos a gas station should be up to 2x2 tiles compared to house tiles
16:12:45 <andythenorth> seems a bit large though
16:13:21 *** oskari89 has joined #openttd
16:16:57 <andythenorth> TTRS has fuel pump icons for petrol stations in transparent mode :o
16:17:42 <frosch123> so, it anyone draw a broken coin yet?
16:19:27 <andythenorth> I still think only show an icon if the information is useful - i.e. "This vehicle makes a loss"
16:21:27 <frosch123> showing a greyed icon is better than showing no icon. that makes it obvious that the icon is disabled, and the user is not wondering why it is missing
16:21:54 <andythenorth> waste of pixels in my view :D
16:22:08 <andythenorth> but you could be correct
16:22:22 <frosch123> "intentional greyed" vs. "somehow missing" :)
16:23:34 <frosch123> resp. noob vs. advanced user
16:25:06 <andythenorth> does that require a grey 'everything is ok' icon?
16:25:25 <frosch123> no, there is an obvious column
16:25:43 <andythenorth> I was thinking lack of columnation might be part of the problem :)
16:26:19 <andythenorth> I'm a bad tester - I don't use the icons at all. I look for negative profits using the actual numbers....
16:26:30 <andythenorth> ...I rely on the red which is no help for r/g colour blind
16:27:20 <planetmaker> andythenorth: and you could even borrow them from TTRS :-)
16:27:29 <planetmaker> (the fuel pump icons)
16:27:34 <andythenorth> do you like them?
16:28:16 <andythenorth> if used for one industry, does that imply using them for all industries (and cargos)
16:28:48 <planetmaker> it doesn't. Though it might make sense and would be nice
16:29:02 <andythenorth> it would be hard to achieve I think
16:29:06 <planetmaker> But given the amount... ^
16:29:10 <andythenorth> it would also mean a lot more ground sprites :P
16:29:24 <planetmaker> I basically like it with TTRS a lot as it's the only easy way to find them
16:29:30 <andythenorth> it's a hack on something that the game ought to provide
16:29:42 <planetmaker> it does make sense therefore with industries which are likely to be in a town.
16:29:48 <planetmaker> Like bakery, bank etc
16:29:58 <planetmaker> The small ones which don't stand out
16:30:02 <andythenorth> the game should have an overlay of sprites showing acceptance / production per tile
16:32:06 <andythenorth> coin icon with an exclamation mark? instead of broken
16:32:23 <andythenorth> bank note - on fire (use the fire cycle!)
16:33:44 <andythenorth> just use a red disc, but with concentric rings using the fire cycle or the crossing cycle
16:34:03 <andythenorth> r/g colour blind should still be able to discern contrast changes.
16:34:10 <andythenorth> doesn't work in pause mode though :(
16:46:53 * andythenorth ponders icons some more
17:00:41 *** ajmiles has joined #openttd
17:02:08 *** ajmiles2 has joined #openttd
17:45:59 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r19891 /trunk/src/lang/ (10 files): (log message trimmed)
17:45:59 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:59 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: catalan - 6 changes by arnau
17:45:59 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: croatian - 2 changes by VoyagerOne
17:45:59 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: finnish - 1 changes by jpx_
17:46:01 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: french - 1 changes by glx
17:46:01 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: italian - 7 changes by lorenzodv
17:56:32 *** fonsinchen has joined #openttd
18:14:11 <Rubidium> andythenorth: the difference between stdout and stderr (grep only "works" on stdout)
18:20:45 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
18:48:02 *** Devedse_ has joined #openttd
19:05:24 *** JVassie has joined #openttd
19:07:03 *** Doorslammer has joined #openttd
19:16:19 <planetmaker> meh... no good sign, if grfcodec issues an "Abort trap" upon de-coding a newgrf, eh?
19:26:38 <planetmaker> holy handgrenade. 3938 sprites for the ECS wood vector forest alone...!
19:28:35 <planetmaker> lines of NFO code for a single industry...
19:33:02 <andythenorth> does it do a lot of tile / slope detection?
19:33:55 <Guest1086> 3617 without comments
19:34:00 *** Guest1086 is now known as George
19:34:15 <George> <andythenorth> does it do a lot of tile / slope detection? Yes
19:34:36 *** George is now known as Guest1234
19:35:30 <Guest1234> Including variants and production code
19:35:30 <DorpsGek> Muxy: beerface was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 0 days, 0 hours, 6 minutes, and 7 seconds ago: <beerface> planetmaker: what do you mean hacked servers?
19:36:06 *** Guest1234 is now known as George
19:39:50 <George> 3462 sprites of layout code
19:40:20 <George> For all 4 landscapes including snow covered version
19:40:26 <planetmaker> that's frigging amazing :-)
19:40:46 <planetmaker> with like 7 layouts or so, if I got it right
19:41:21 <planetmaker> I just replied in forums: do you have the real sprites at hand? My grfcodec only works for the code
19:41:26 <planetmaker> It writes invalid image files
19:41:44 <George> BTW, there is a feature with trees in temperate, because it uses sub-arctic trees instead to keep TTDPATCH compatibility
19:42:56 <planetmaker> So it basically re-uses the trees which are there and "just" arranges it into the industry?
19:43:04 <George> planetmaker: real sprites at hand? - what sprites? It uses trees from TRG1R (default trees)
19:43:16 <planetmaker> oh, ok. And the house?
19:43:33 <George> planetmaker: arranges it into the industry? Yes
19:43:57 <George> The house are the sprites. Do you need a psd file?
19:44:59 <planetmaker> would be nice :-)
19:46:20 <planetmaker> and the pile of cut trees would be nice, too :-)
19:46:48 <planetmaker> When I browsed the game I initially wondered whether only the house is the industry... :-)
19:48:47 <George> planetmaker: of cut trees - I suppose I do not have them in PSD, i think they were drawn inside the PCX
19:49:05 <planetmaker> well, that's fine for me, too :-)
19:49:13 <planetmaker> But they certainly add to the flair
19:49:28 <George> If you mean logs - they are also game defaults
19:53:25 *** Grelouk has joined #openttd
19:53:53 <planetmaker> hm... taken from the saw mill?
19:54:52 <planetmaker> hm, is it me or the psd file only the arctic version?
19:55:01 <planetmaker> or am I too stupid to see the other layers?
19:59:47 <planetmaker> what I also like a lot are those industries with the animated vehicles :-)
20:13:31 <George> planetmaker: hm... taken from the saw mill? Yes
20:14:00 <planetmaker> yeah, I see that now :-)
20:14:16 <planetmaker> Quite a neat idea to re-arange existing things this way :-)
20:15:15 <George> hm, is it me or the psd file only the arctic version? or am I too stupid to see the other layers? Snow is stored on the layers
20:17:02 <planetmaker> thanks, I'll figure it out then
20:18:48 <planetmaker> But a very nicely drawn and elaborately coded newgrf those vectors :-) Kudos!
20:53:16 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd
21:07:19 *** fonsinchen has joined #openttd
21:08:13 *** PeterT_ has joined #openttd
21:15:49 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
21:16:29 *** Progman has joined #openttd
21:26:47 *** Wizzleby has joined #openttd
21:38:55 *** Nite_Owl has joined #openttd
21:40:13 <SmatZ> hello Nite_Owl, greetings from the country which just won the world hockey championship :)
21:43:21 <SmatZ> PeterT: Canada wasn't even in final
21:43:33 <PeterT> Canada is supposed to be good at hockey
21:44:22 <SmatZ> so is Russia and Czech republic :-p
21:44:51 <PeterT> good job, Czech Republic
21:58:01 <__ln__> has anyone else experienced an off-by-one error with Lost S06 episodes?
21:58:24 <PeterT> what's an off-by-one error?
21:59:28 <Nite_Owl> Maybe the smoke monster or the polar bear got a hold of the video files......
22:00:15 <PeterT> __ln__: I'm looking at that, but I didn't see how that relates to TV shows
22:00:36 <PeterT> it says it's in programming or mathematical context
22:01:35 <__ln__> Just finished watching "Episode 16" which must be Episode 15 according to IMDb description.
22:01:58 <__ln__> Same for "Episode 15" vs. Episode 14.
22:14:46 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19892 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#3856] (r19792): crash when trying to reserve 'in depot' track on clearing a crashed train
22:19:54 <__ln__> a-ha, IMDb's numbering is misguided
22:22:11 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: basically it depends if you count the first episode as 1 or 2 episodes [since it's double length]
22:22:36 <__ln__> yeah, that's the thing
22:23:16 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, most of the time double length episodes are counted as two
22:23:35 <Eddi|zuHause> but there are exceptions
22:23:36 *** ajmiles has joined #openttd
22:29:36 <__ln__> they have a lot to explain in the finale
22:31:36 <__ln__> and they've kind of promised an explanation
22:35:20 *** ajmiles has joined #openttd
23:00:27 *** Jolteon has joined #openttd
23:10:11 *** rhaeder has joined #openttd
23:14:41 *** ajmiles2 has joined #openttd
23:18:12 *** ajmiles3 has joined #openttd
23:23:27 *** Jolteon has joined #openttd
23:25:57 *** Jolteon has joined #openttd
23:27:27 *** Jolteon has joined #openttd
23:29:39 *** last_evolution has quit IRC
continue to next day ⏵
