IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-03-01
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00:00:45 <Reinbachh> Hmm, the mystery deepens, when I rename one of the files to .mid and try to play it, it's silent
00:01:10 <OwenS> I think we can safely assess it's not an OpenTTD problem then
00:02:04 <Eddi|zuHause> Reinbachh: if you open the windows mixer settings, maybe midi output is set to silent?
00:02:47 <PeterT> Is it too late to vote?
00:03:11 <Reinbachh> Eddi|zuHause- I just checked that and it was. I've turned it up and it's still not playing.
00:03:23 <Reinbachh> Also the equaliser thing on the jukebox doesn't move up and down, nor does it play at all
00:03:33 <peter1138> no soundfont loaded?
00:03:58 <Eddi|zuHause> Reinbachh: the equalizer never moves, as openttd cannot get feedback from the midi player
00:04:19 <Reinbachh> I'm 100% sure it's my system though, definitely not ottd :p
00:04:24 <PeterT> Is it too late to vote?
00:04:33 <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: yes, 5 minutes
00:04:53 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe if you ask nice enough ;)
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00:05:10 <PeterT> Rubidium: Would you mind if I please told you my vote here?
00:08:30 <Reinbachh> Hm, PC won't play midi files *at all*
00:09:14 <Eddi|zuHause> so much for "definitely does play midi" :p
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00:10:01 <Reinbachh> I've got two soundcards in this machine
00:10:09 <Reinbachh> And it's using the one I've mostly disabled
00:10:31 <__ln__> surprisingly, the implication "false → true" is false.
00:10:52 <Reinbachh> Yes it mightn't be is.
00:13:08 <Reinbachh> Thanks for your help, I think it'll be fixed after the restart :p
00:13:28 * Reinbachh watches his PC burst into flames
00:14:22 <PeterT> That can't be a good sign
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00:53:37 <Eddi|zuHause> aber bitte mit Sahne?
00:54:21 <Eddi|zuHause> ... i wonder if i have this song...
00:55:22 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... looks like i don't...
00:56:39 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... why did anybody put "cargo" in "cargodist"? i never get to actually transport cargo in such a game...
01:00:18 <Eddi|zuHause> and we definitely need a river port that can be placed on flat land, instead of a slope...
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01:14:17 <OwenS> OpenTTD soo needs a "crashed trains disappear sooner" option
01:29:26 <Eddi|zuHause> debian and php is kind of a cold war, i have the feeling...
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01:51:48 <Eddi|zuHause> man, the ship pathfinder is stupid... it can't even manage a simple bend in a river...
01:53:32 <Rubidium> OPF? It's not stupid, it just stops after 4 turns
01:55:42 <Eddi|zuHause> 4 is kinda very little...
01:55:58 <Eddi|zuHause> it's probably fine on open sea, but on narrow rivers?
01:57:01 <Eddi|zuHause> and opengfx rivers need more visible "rocks" in the waterfalls, so it is more noticeable that they cannot be passed by ships...
01:57:39 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: please, I agree :-)
01:58:38 <Eddi|zuHause> and why can i not build a bridge over a lock?
02:03:06 <glx> glitch prevention in case some use a way too big sprite replacement ?
02:03:39 <glx> like for stations and houses
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02:12:55 <Eddi|zuHause> why is openttd using 10% cpu when paused and minimised?
02:13:32 <Eddi|zuHause> music is stopped
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03:10:59 <zachanima> so wait oh I can still make the vote, right?
03:12:01 <Eddi|zuHause> (actually the vote goes till TOMORROW night :p(
03:12:11 <zachanima> until 01-03-2010 23:59
03:12:55 <zachanima> well I had better make up my mind NOW, then
03:14:01 <Eddi|zuHause> the spontaneous decisions sometimes are the best
03:14:55 <zachanima> arguably so - or at least might be truest to your feelings (without the abstraction of reason)
03:15:09 <zachanima> anyway, I am still somewhat undecided between two of them
03:16:50 <Eddi|zuHause> if you're unsure from the screenshots, load them into the game and watch for a while
03:17:29 <zachanima> I spent like 10 minutes just looking at each of them in motion
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03:17:41 <zachanima> so way past spontanity now
03:18:56 <zachanima> I am undecided between #1 and #3
03:23:30 <zachanima> I can't sleep - so I shall wake up and do the voting
03:39:40 <zachanima> gee, that took a while
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09:16:34 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: using pulse or so?
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10:32:10 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: good morning; would've replied sooner, but then it wouldn't be slowchatting anymore!
10:35:23 <peter1138> how can i tell if a rail tile is within a town?
10:35:51 <Rubidium> getting the town zone? As done for houses
10:41:18 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: no, i don't use pulse
10:41:24 <peter1138> don't see much relevant there
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11:03:12 <__ln__> wisdom of the day: never use NFS for anything on Linux unless you are a thirty-ton elephant
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11:06:07 <__ln__> because in any error situation everything blocks forever, in a non-interruptable way.
11:07:33 <ccfreak2k> NFS is, in general, a terrible thing.
11:29:54 <SpComb^> how does being a 30t elephant help?
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11:38:31 <thingwath> No 30t elephant ever had a problem with NFS, I guess.
11:41:41 <peter1138> there's a "soft" mode, which generally doesn't help much
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11:59:25 <peter1138> DaleStan, do you know of the elrail pylons & wires action5 layout is documented?
12:00:26 <planetmaker> peter1138, I don't know about 'documented', but I'd suspect something like that in the DutchCatanery or CanSet to happen
12:01:55 <planetmaker> or you didn't mean documented in as 'is used'?
12:02:07 <peter1138> i mean documented as in documented
12:03:16 <DaleStan> peter1138: I'm pretty sure the closest thing we have to documentation is elrails[w].grf/ttdpbase[w].grf.
12:04:39 <lestat> hay alguien que hable espaol?
12:05:52 <lestat> as do I start server and see me?
12:06:09 <Eddi|zuHause> you need to configure your router and firewall
12:06:11 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
12:07:03 <lestat> I have port 7939 open on your router and firewall
12:08:04 <planetmaker> well. wrong port ;-)
12:09:41 <lestat> OPENTTD 3979 3979 TCP/UDP 3979 3979 192.168.1.30
12:09:41 <lestat> openttd 3978 3978 TCP/UDP 3978 3978 192.168.1.130
12:10:01 <Eddi|zuHause> that should be ok
12:11:36 <lestat> in windows firewall too?
12:14:12 <lestat> ports are already open and can not see the server but I do?
12:14:35 <lestat> or is it takes a while?
12:14:54 <Eddi|zuHause> it should list on servers.openttd.org after a few minutes
12:16:41 <Eddi|zuHause> if it's more than 5 i'd start to worry...
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12:31:36 <J1gS9nA4k> fingers crossed, to see if they are lucky now
12:31:51 * J1gS9nA4k se va a cambiar el nick
12:31:56 <J1gS9nA4k> fingers crossed, to see if they are lucky now
12:32:08 * J1gS9nA4k se va a cambiar el nick
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13:02:42 <lestat> can not get my server appears
13:04:39 <jordi> lestat: Rubidium told you IPs differ
13:04:50 <jordi> are you sure your network setup is OK?
13:06:44 <lestat> I connect to that ip 130
13:08:05 <planetmaker> yes, but 30 != 130
13:08:16 <planetmaker> seems an unstable connection ;-)
13:11:49 <SpComb^> get a SixXs tunnel and set up an IPv6-only server
13:12:48 <jordi> SpComb^: an ipv6 server wouldn't get an outstanding nuimber of remote players
13:13:10 <SpComb^> perhaps, perhaps, but you never know until you've tried it
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13:30:21 <OwenS> Sixxs? I;d suggest 6to4 but I realise that would duplicate your problems ;p
13:30:24 <OwenS> You could just rent a VPS :P
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13:42:16 <SpComb^> "Probably a lot of potential players rejected the game because of old/trivial look in opposition to present-day commercial games"
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13:42:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i thought that retro look was the entire point of the game ;)
13:43:31 <Eddi|zuHause> it isn't cluttered by fancy but pointless graphics, instead it is reduced to pure gameplay
13:45:47 * fjb doesn't like Civ IV for its eye hurting user interface.
13:46:20 <SpComb^> same thing with S2 / S2TNG
13:46:22 * Eddi|zuHause does like Civ IV for its complex and flexible gameplay
13:47:08 * fjb would like the game play of Civ IV with the user interface of Civ III.
13:47:29 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know the user interface of Civ III, tbh...
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13:48:33 <fjb> Not everything overdimensionally big and eye hurting colorful.
13:50:19 <SpComb^> one friend already told me that he'd rather play S2TNG than S2, because he "likes graphics and doesn't mind sacrificing a little clarity"
13:51:05 <SpComb^> 2D isometric graphics are a lot more polished than the 3D stuff :(
13:51:29 <SpComb^> Settlers II - 10th anniversary thing
13:51:35 <SpComb^> (or The Next Generation)
13:52:27 <Eddi|zuHause> internally, it's called S2DNG, i believe
13:52:37 <Eddi|zuHause> as in "Die nächste Generation"
13:53:35 <Forked> too bad I wont buy settlers 7 .. even if it's good. freaking insane copy protection
13:53:41 <Eddi|zuHause> it's basically the whole opposite of OpenTTD, they focused on new graphics without changing gameplay at all
13:53:50 <Eddi|zuHause> except a handful of bug fixes
13:54:30 <Eddi|zuHause> although i do think the graphics look neat ;)
13:54:51 <Eddi|zuHause> they could have used one or two zoom out steps, though...
14:08:40 <Rubidium> yeah, point'n'drool vs good gameplay
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14:12:51 <blathijs> Eddi|zuHause: But the gameplay was already pretty much ok IMHO :-)
14:13:14 <zachanima> neat. There's a town here in Denmark with a station that, if translated, would be called "Darkness Station"
14:21:28 <Eddi|zuHause> blathijs: that is true, but it doesn't mean there wasn't room for improvement. but i guess the community did ask for an almost-unchanged gameplay
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14:43:07 <Eddi|zuHause> blathijs: one thing that is definitely missing is attack by ship. once you settled an island, there's no way that enemies can interfer
14:44:18 <blathijs> Eddi|zuHause: Yeah, ship stuff is still a bit lacking (also the lack of management of goods transfers by ship)
14:44:53 <Eddi|zuHause> and relocating goods between storage houses is... inadequate...
14:46:28 <Eddi|zuHause> and you can only see when houses are underoccupied, not when they are overloaded
14:46:52 <Eddi|zuHause> you lack diagnosis tools for which is the bottleneck in your economy
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16:30:11 <mjk> How can I use the original TTD MIDI music from the DOS version? I have a 0,4 MB file named "gm.cat", and I can use a tool from the net (tttools.zip) to extract 22 files from it, but when I name the resulting files "gm_tt00.gm" etc., OpenTTD 1.0.0rc1 claims it's the Windows version MIDI files, and that they are corrupted.
16:31:25 <Eddi|zuHause> openttd does not understand the dos midi format
16:31:37 <mjk> Eddi|zuHause: Okay, thanks for the sad news. :-}
16:31:49 <mjk> Interesting, that the formats differ at all ...
16:32:35 <Eddi|zuHause> the dos music files contain some obscure formats optimised for certain sound cards, the windows version contains clean general midi
16:32:40 <Rubidium> the DOS version is something midi-ish specific for a specific 'brand' of sound cards, the Windows version is generic
16:32:45 <mjk> Eddi|zuHause: Aaaah, okay ...
16:32:49 <mjk> Rubidium: Okay, thanks ...
16:32:52 <Rubidium> same that the dos graphics use another palette than the windows version
16:33:05 <mjk> Rubidium: Ah, right, I saw that in a menu somewhere ...
16:33:45 <mjk> At least I'm glad that OpenTTD runs with the original DOS gfx and sfx files. Thanks to the developers!
16:34:41 <mjk> (Yes, I know OpenGFX and OpenSFX, but the orig files are just in case that Open* proves to be not "different" enough from the originals and some assh^Wlawyer/judge claims it's not free)
16:57:11 * Belugas looks at the clock and is desperate
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17:03:34 <Eddi|zuHause> it's already 18:00
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17:25:24 <OwenS> Why do people make crappy JPEGS then upload PNG conversions of them?
17:26:02 <Rubidium> OwenS: are you sure? Maybe it's the forums dimwitty resize "feature"
17:26:35 <OwenS> Opera Turbo has enabled itself
17:26:41 <OwenS> My connection is obviously sucking
17:26:42 <Rubidium> (the one that converts a 200 KiB 1-pixel-too-big png to a 800+ KiB png)
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17:58:27 <SpComb^> darn, you can't transport boats between islands in S2 :o
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18:45:49 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r19296 /trunk/src/lang/ (10 files): (log message trimmed)
18:45:49 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:49 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: afrikaans - 12 changes by Kayos
18:45:49 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 1 changes by josesun
18:45:49 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: dutch - 1 changes by habell
18:45:50 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: esperanto - 22 changes by Ailanto, kristjan
18:45:50 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: greek - 1 changes by fumantsu
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19:13:22 * Belugas plays som eBloody Time Zones, agina
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19:17:54 <SmatZ> peter@cats.meow.at, that's scary
19:18:31 <peter1139> also, can,t place that ebay bid :/
19:18:44 <frosch123> maybe he searched for pikka
19:19:02 <Belugas> peter1139, when will it expire?
19:32:38 <peter1138> it's about the only shell account i have that doesn't need an ssh key
19:33:28 <mjk> Okay, this is *way* to confusing, so I have to ask here: Can I run a plain vanilla 1.0.0rc1 with 32bpp graphics? Not necessarily with full-zoom-support, but the nice 32bpp graphics.
19:33:49 <peter1138> and, indeed 0.7.x, and 0.6.x (i think)
19:34:17 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r19297 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Variable scope and documentation of DoCreateNewIndustry().
19:35:49 <SpComb^> lolwtf, just found 255 boats in one harbor building
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19:40:24 <mjk> Hmmm ... is there any object on the 1.0.0rc1 intro screen where I could see a noticable 32bpp improvemtn? Because I think it doesn't work (yet).
19:42:24 <frosch123> just turn on transparency
19:42:38 <frosch123> or font antialiasing
19:42:38 <Rubidium> mjk: depends on the blitter and whether you've got the right grahpics
19:43:00 <mjk> As far as I understood, copying the content of the "32Bpp Graphics Base Set" to ~/.openttd/data should be enough ... so I unpacked the .7z file and put the resulting sprites/ directory into ~/.openttd/data
19:43:38 <frosch123> most important: you have to start it with "-b 32bpp-optimized" or "-b 32bpp-anim"
19:43:43 <frosch123> resp. set it in openttd.cfg
19:44:03 <mjk> frosch123: A-haaa! Will try ...
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19:49:24 <__ln__> gaah. okay, *now* my NFS server finally got back operational and all the blocked processes on another system were unblocked.
19:49:45 <mjk> Interesting. The only difference (also switched transparency on/off with "x") I can see that with "-b 32bpp-*", the mouse cursor looks more like the original. Everything else seems the usual 8bpp dithered gfx ...
19:50:07 <mjk> __ln__: NFS suxx, we know ... :-/
19:50:17 <mjk> __ln__: (Even with operational hardware)
19:50:25 <__ln__> 13:03 < __ln__> wisdom of the day: never use NFS for anything on Linux unless you are a thirty-ton elephant
19:51:12 <mjk> __ln__: Damn, too late. :-} Using NFS for exported $HOME ... including Maildir-style mailbox. No, new mail checking was more reliable w/o NFS.
19:52:40 <mjk> Is there anything I'm missing: OpenTTD 1.0.0rc1 +
19:53:01 <mjk> Is there anything I'm missing: OpenTTD 1.0.0rc1 + OpenGfx + OpenSfx (unused) + 32 Bpp Gfx Base Set + 32 Bpp Full Tar Pack?
19:53:19 <mjk> And "-b 32bpp-anim/optimized", of course.
19:53:42 <Rubidium> might be that the bases gfx things depend on the original graphics or so
19:53:55 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r19298 /trunk/src/newgrf_station.cpp: -Fix: [NewGRF] segfault when station vars 0xF2/0xF3 is accessed when there is no truck/bus stop
19:54:02 <mjk> Rubidium: Okay, I got the DOS original, will try that ...
19:54:18 <Rubidium> it's just that "nobody" seems to want to use 32bpp, so it probably does not work very well
19:54:34 <peter1138> at least you don't need to untar them now :D
19:54:37 <Rubidium> mjk: and then probably only the window version of the graphics
19:56:23 <frosch123> if you untar it hte foldername has to match the .grf files
19:56:23 <mjk> Rubidium: Interesting ... why is that so? It's so much nicer! On the screenshots at least ...
19:56:47 <peter1138> there are screenshots?
19:56:57 <peter1138> the full-zoom packs are not even compatible with trunk's 32bpp, so...
19:57:37 <Rubidium> mjk: the dos graphics is very seldomly used
19:57:39 <mjk> frosch123: for the 32bpp base gfx set, that's true, e.g. I have: ~/.openttd/data/opengfx1_base.grf and ~/.openttd/data/sprites/opengfx1_base/
19:58:01 <mjk> Rubidium: Yes, I thought I'd bought the Windows version, because it came on CD ...
19:58:17 <mjk> Rubidium: But it seems the DOS version also came on CD ...
19:58:23 <mjk> Rubidium: The DOS files are 16 MB.
19:58:54 <mjk> frosch123: The full tar pack has only TAR files, however.
19:58:55 <frosch123> with opengfx it should work :)
19:59:14 <mjk> frosch123: *growl* Seems to work for everyone except for li'l mjk :-(
19:59:20 <peter1138> mjk, the only difference, for 32bpp purposes, is the directory name
20:00:46 <mjk> peter1138: So ~/.openttd/data/opengfx1_base.grf and ~/.openttd/data/sprites/opengfx1_base/ is okay? OpenTTD will override the files in ~/.openttd/data with the files from ~/.openttd/data/sprites?
20:02:47 <mjk> Oh well, it seems I have to wait until the 32bpp (and maybe the full-zoom-support) gets officially supported ... I shouldn't be so impatient at my age. ;-)
20:02:56 <mjk> Thanks for your help anyway, folks!
20:03:15 * OwenS ponders why ld cant find symbols supposedly generated by my explicit template specialization
20:03:24 <Belugas> mmh... why wold you say that? There is an age to be patient?
20:03:39 <peter1138> mjk, sure they're not graphics for extra zoom? heh
20:04:16 <mjk> Belugas: Yeah, when you're so old that you have to wait for the nurse. ;-)
20:04:49 <Belugas> at that age, you actually forget that there is a nurse coming in !
20:05:04 <peter1138> then that will be graphics for extra zoom
20:05:04 <mjk> peter1138: Though the post says "OTTD with Full zoom support", I didn't think that they needed different versions ...
20:05:30 <peter1138> the author of the patches decided to make it non-compatible
20:05:31 <mjk> peter1138: You don't happen to have a link for the 32bpp (w/o Zoom) files?
20:05:47 <mjk> peter1138: We need more versions !!!111oneeleven
20:07:19 <frosch123> mjk: if you use opengfx 32bpp from dev.openttdcoop.org you can easily notice its presence by looking at the openttd letters in the intro menu
20:07:32 <mjk> That's not fair ... everything that says only "32bpp" is actually "32bpp full zoom"
20:09:06 <frosch123> but despite of that it only contains 3 toyland houses, mabye one tropical, and the info icon :)
20:09:52 <peter1138> heh, yeah, not very complete
20:14:11 <mjk> What is the FSCKing matter? Am I too stupid to copy files??!!
20:15:03 <mjk> I can see the graphics with a picture viewer, yes. But the absolutely do not appear in the game. Not with -b 32bpp-anim and not with -b 32bpp-optimized
20:16:09 <frosch123> i have ~/.openttd/data/sprites/ogfx1_base/4627.png, 32bpp-anim and the opengfx 8bpp base set
20:16:42 <peter1138> not too old, just less young
20:16:59 <mjk> what, what, what??! sprites? Okay, will copy it to that directory -- the original hierarchy in the zip file was: data/opengfx1_base/....
20:17:23 <mjk> YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
20:17:24 <frosch123> 8bpp opengfx has yellow letters, when 32bpp is activated they become - hmm - a bit blue
20:17:33 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r19299 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
20:17:33 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Codechange: store the most compatible ttd airport type in AirportSpec
20:17:33 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Fix: [NewGRF] return the ttd airport type in station var 0xF1
20:17:40 <peter1138> it works. now you just need to find grpahics... :s
20:17:42 <mjk> Now I want the balls of the guy who packed that zip file!
20:18:06 * mjk tries to cool down -- by looking at the new 32bpp logo ;-)
20:18:09 <frosch123> just open a task at their bug tracker :)
20:18:17 <mjk> frosch123: Thanks a zillion!
20:18:48 <mjk> Bug trackers ... tried to register for the openttd bts, but to no avail ...
20:19:18 <mjk> I hate it when there is no standard, GUI-less bug reporting tool ...
20:20:05 * Rubidium considers HTTP and HTML to be standards
20:20:17 * Rubidium also considers telnet/nc GUI-less
20:20:38 <mjk> Rubidium: Errr ... well ... GUI-less, but also ... USE-less. :-)
20:20:52 <mjk> Rubidium: I thought more of a ncurses/CLI based tool.
20:20:57 <mjk> Like "reportbug" in Debian.
20:21:16 <Rubidium> then report it there
20:21:22 <Ammler> frosch123: that isn't 32bpp project...
20:21:42 <planetmaker> There is none really ;-)
20:21:43 <Rubidium> but then, reportbug *is* not standard
20:21:46 <frosch123> it just says in its name
20:21:47 <glx> opengfx32bpp is not 32bpp ?
20:21:49 <Rubidium> it's custom-build for Debian
20:21:51 <Ammler> that is just for opengfx 32bpp sprites
20:21:57 <mjk> Rubidium: Hmmm ... yes, best bet. Though that should be for specifically Debian-related bugs ...
20:21:59 <planetmaker> well, it is... sort of
20:22:01 <Rubidium> whereas flyspray is *more* a standard
20:22:11 <mjk> Rubidium: flyspray? cvhecking ...
20:22:34 <mjk> frosch123: As always, I cannot register for their BTS ... *sigh* But thanks for finding out the URL anyway!
20:22:39 <Ammler> I guess, best place for 32bpp issues is at tt-forums, imo.
20:23:08 <mjk> Rubidium: Hm, the homepage says "web-based" .. does that mean: no ncurses/CLI tool?
20:23:11 <glx> Ammler: but at tt-forums they tend to do only extra zoom
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20:23:48 <planetmaker> so... the extra newgrf replacement
20:23:59 <Rubidium> mjk: yes, unless someone has written such a tool
20:24:06 <Rubidium> feel free to do so by the way
20:24:17 <Rubidium> just like someone did for Debian
20:24:26 <planetmaker> mjk, why would you not be able to register at a bug tracker?
20:24:45 <mjk> Rubidium: Okay, thanks ... if I had the nerves, I'd do that ... but then again, what good is such a tool, if not everyone uses the underlying database?
20:25:18 <mjk> planetmaker: I don't know. I never get validation emails ...
20:25:39 <Rubidium> 'cause reportbug was written *months* after debbugs was written
20:25:42 <Ammler> then you should look for a better email isp
20:25:47 <mjk> planetmaker: Maybe I should switch to another spam-mail-address supplier than spambog.com ...
20:26:20 <mjk> Ammler: The only BTS I ever supplied a "real" address is the Debian bug tracker.
20:26:22 <Rubidium> I hate people using those for the bug tracker. Those bug reports are as useless as anonymous bug reports
20:26:31 <planetmaker> mjk, then use an e-mail address which you actually can receive...
20:27:02 * planetmaker agrees with Rubidium ... then there's no way to get back. And the quality is usually the same
20:27:07 <mjk> planetmaker: I can receive spambog.com mails. It's a temporary mailbox with arbitrarily chose mailbox names.
20:27:51 <mjk> planetmaker: The quality of my bug reports is not like "hey this stinx, nothing works, I got an error message but will not tell you which !!!11", rest assured. |-)
20:28:22 <Rubidium> then what kind of bug report is it?
20:28:26 <planetmaker> Your effort to report kinda leads to this assumption
20:28:30 <Rubidium> "the 32bpp full zoom graphics don't work"
20:28:53 <Rubidium> "the 32bpp non-full zoom graphics don't work with the dos base graphics set"
20:29:05 <mjk> Rubidium: In this case, I already know the reason for the bug (it's trivial once you find out), and I would supply a "patch" for it.
20:29:10 <Rubidium> "the readme of the 32bpp graphics is totally crappy"
20:29:43 <yorick> "help i download this file and then i put it in and now its not working"
20:29:51 <mjk> Rubidium: :-) The path stored in opengfx...zip is wrong. It's "data/opengfx1_base/..." instead of "sprites/opengfx1_base/...". Something like that.
20:30:23 <Rubidium> oh, then it doesn't belong to our bug tracker anyhow
20:30:38 <mjk> Rubidium: It was for the BTS frosch123 gave me ...
20:31:09 <Ammler> well, it is for the tracker you get the pack from
20:31:34 <Ammler> if you downloaded from tt-forums, you should also report there
20:35:24 <mjk> planetmaker: Although I use only throw-away mail addresses for web-based BTSes, I do track the bug report a while (up to 1 or 2 weeks) and answer questions from the developer.
20:36:30 <planetmaker> current spam filters are not that bad. Even my most exposed e-mail addresses have an acceptable ratio after filtering
20:37:33 <mjk> planetmaker: Yes, but I'm a litte too paranoid regarding false positives ... and it's more work perusing your spam folder for false positives than deleting spam from your inbox.
20:38:19 <mjk> Social problems cannot be solved by means of technology ...
20:38:38 <planetmaker> mjk, I'm not telling that you should use your primary address there... I don't either
20:38:51 <frosch123> most spam i get are the notifications from bugs.openttd.org :p
20:38:55 <mjk> In my next section of life, I might try to produce world peace. :-}
20:39:32 <mjk> planetmaker: Actually, I can have as many addresses as I want ... just the interface to creating new mail addresses is ... lame. :-/
20:40:03 <yorick> privacy is a huge crime
20:40:07 <yorick> and you should be punished
20:40:51 <mjk> yorick: Yes, #debian.de on Freenode doesn't like real-name-deniers ...
20:41:06 <mjk> When I was younger, I also demanded real names on the net from everyone.
20:41:16 <yorick> at least you have mine
20:41:23 <mjk> But well ... I've grown older ... (not necessarily "up" ;-)
20:41:43 <yorick> older as in...you're 12 now :P
20:42:19 <frosch123> mjk is 12 times as old as yorick
20:42:57 <mjk> yorick: Interestingly enough, "children" are actually adult from an development-psychiatric(?) point of view. Except when their parents etc. treat them like kids, then they actually can even develop back for a while. :-(
20:43:26 <mjk> yorick: Wow ... you're an adult! :-)
20:43:32 <mjk> yorick: (At least in theory ;-)
20:45:33 <Nite_Owl> parents will always treat their children as kids even when you ram your wheelchair into theirs
20:50:12 <mjk> Nite_Owl: This is very nice ... I'll quote that somewhere if you permit. :-)
21:20:17 <peter1138> that is not openttd :s
21:20:37 <mjk> Looks more like Settlers ...
21:20:56 <frosch123> it looks like settlers 2 campaign 8
21:20:58 <mjk> Wasn't there talk about a settlers clone? Like OpenSettlers, sotosay ...
21:21:12 <frosch123> you mean widelands?
21:23:20 <mjk> SpComb^ called that Settlers2.5 or so =)
21:24:30 <SpComb^> ^ the interesting bits
21:24:36 <SpComb^> they're not very good at GPL
21:25:12 <Ammler> s2tng might have made a blockage?
21:25:27 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd
21:34:43 <Belugas> customer service... how fun...
21:35:06 <__ln__> what kind of "quotes" is one supposed to use in german?
21:35:10 <_newage_> SpComb^ I'm hearing you
21:35:50 <mjk> __ln__: lower quote, upper quote ... or do you mean the quote chars? single/double/french/...
21:36:37 <__ln__> mjk: are »these« sometimes used?
21:37:15 <mjk> __ln__: Those are called French Quotes (I guess) or "Guillemets"
21:37:51 <mjk> __ln__: Otherwise, we use <lowerquote>blah<upperquote>, either single or double, depending on the nesting.
21:38:09 <mjk> __ln__: :-) No, French quotes are absolutely okay.
21:38:51 <mjk> __ln__: Oh, and in Germany or Austria, it's >>blah<<, while in Switzerland and Liechtenstein, it's <<blah>> (direction reversed)
21:40:13 <mjk> (Thank $DEITY, umlauts are URL-encoded =)
21:41:51 <aber> with the "Left Double Quotation Mark" used in the right side?
21:41:59 <__ln__> mjk: ja, ich kann deutsch lesen, und habe gefragt weil ich es jetzt auch schreiben versuche. :)
21:42:31 <mjk> aber: No, they're asymmetrical. Lower quote left, upper quote right.
21:43:17 <aber> mjk: The upper quote shown is the "Left Double Quotation Mark"
21:43:43 <mjk> aber: Where? In the German Wikipedia article?
21:44:32 <mjk> aber: The first two "pictures" (next to "Im Deutschen") show the quotes available only on typewriters.
21:44:55 <mjk> aber: German typewriters (at least older / mechanical ones) have only the upper quotes.
21:45:43 <aber> its like „“, but it could be „” or „‟
21:46:15 <mjk> aber: Hmm ... your last sentence contains ,," three times. :-}
21:46:38 <mjk> aber: Post a screenshot somewhere =)
21:46:44 <mjk> aber: Imageshack or something ...
21:48:38 <mjk> Ah, I see that there's another form of single quotes: two upper single quotes, where the left quote is at the same height of the right quote, but upside-down.
21:49:44 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd
21:50:25 <mjk> Aaaah, now I remember ... yeah, these "same height, but upside-down"-quote pairs are simply English quotes. :-))
21:50:46 *** Wintersoldier has joined #openttd
21:50:50 <mjk> So the image on Wikipedia seems to be actually wrong.
21:52:22 <mjk> Hihi, Japanese quotes are funny ...
21:55:37 <aber> I have never quoted the right way. dammit.
22:03:52 <Belugas> and it's time to wave good night!!!!
22:04:04 <Rubidium> night oh white whale
22:04:55 *** Polygon has joined #openttd
22:13:49 <Yexo> but I haven't done anything on your request :p
22:14:24 <dih> just wanted to ping and say hi
22:15:46 <Eddi|zuHause> <SpComb^> darn, you can't transport boats between islands in S2 :o <-- what? that worked in S2TNG
22:17:30 <SpComb^> dunno, tired to build a sea-route between two islands, but it never got a boat
22:17:43 <SpComb^> there were only a couple in the HQ, a separate continent from these two islands
22:21:30 *** kannerke has joined #openttd
22:51:01 <zachanima> when did this place become #settlers?
22:51:12 <FauxFaux> <3 settlers 2 forever.
22:51:28 <PeterT> zachanima: #not-openttd, rather
22:52:06 <zachanima> it's a good game, yes
22:52:14 <zachanima> and so is *gasp* openttd
22:53:07 <Eddi|zuHause> i talked so much about s2 that i got SpComb^ addicted...
22:53:34 <zachanima> well it happens I guess
22:55:06 <zachanima> perfecting this heightmap has taken all day
22:55:24 <SpComb^> Eddi|zuHause: pfft, I'd dug it up before you did, but I did only started doing the roman campaign after you mentioned it
22:55:26 <Rubidium> and now your image editor crashed and while doing so trashed the backups too?
22:56:19 <zachanima> I'm about 90% done - I expect that to happen at or around 98%
22:59:22 <_newage_> yeah I'm waitin for Settlers 2.5 rttr & theme hospital (CorsixTH) to be fully playable on windows and linux, it's my favorite game
23:01:16 <zachanima> I had a look around about a year ago, looking for open sourced theme hospitals
23:01:28 <zachanima> yet I didn't hit CorsixTH
23:01:40 <Rubidium> that didn't really exist back then
23:01:58 <_newage_> I repost bugs, I try at least
23:01:58 *** Sasakura has joined #openttd
23:02:11 <zachanima> Rubidium, well that explains it
23:02:23 <Sasakura> ive noticed that when running two different versions of ottd that both want to use the same active set of newgrfs, which gives errors when opening the exe if those are not present
23:02:24 <zachanima> _newage_, looks interesting
23:02:38 <zachanima> and google gave me the google code project
23:04:02 <_newage_> any way they use too much lua code
23:04:13 <Eddi|zuHause> Sasakura: you can make the grfs available to all versions, by putting them in My Documents\OpenTTD (or ~/.openttd on linux)
23:05:08 <Sasakura> Eddi|zuHause: ok, but i normally have this problem when trying out different versions
23:07:24 <Eddi|zuHause> Sasakura: you can also avoid sharing the config file by creating a new openttd.cfg before running for the first time
23:14:34 <Sasakura> i'm sure i have this happen regularly, not just on the first instance
23:17:53 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you should read the readme to get some insight about what's going on
23:18:13 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not entirely certain you understood my solutions...
23:18:28 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: reading a readme? Isn't that like reading a manual? Or reading a TOS/EULA before agreeing to it?
23:19:22 <Sasakura> the first solution wouldnt work for me
23:22:46 * Rubidium likes the PS/3 leap year bug :)
23:23:19 * Rubidium wonders whether it has to do something with the Y2010 bug
23:23:42 <Sasakura> Eddi|zuHause: i dont see how to create a pair of openttd.cfg to avoid this issue
23:24:34 <zachanima> top right is usually north, right?
23:25:15 <Rubidium> in OpenTTD's code north is ^
23:25:46 <zachanima> so top right would be north-east?
23:26:14 <PeterT> Rubidium: So, what are the results of the competition?
23:26:21 <Rubidium> if I'm not mixing left and right up (as I quite often do), yes
23:26:47 <PeterT> Also, is there a way to keep the old one? Perhaps by placing an opntitle.dat in the global data folder?
23:29:23 *** Rhamphoryncus has joined #openttd
23:31:40 <SpComb^> Rubidium: first even-year'd, non-leap feb for the PS3's release lifetime
23:32:01 <SpComb^> but somehow, I doubt it's as simple as someone typoing `year % 4` for `year % 2` :(
23:34:50 <Rubidium> SpComb^: that's why I suspect the Y2010 bug, i.e. 2*4096 + 0*256 + 1*16 + 0*1
23:36:04 <Rubidium> then doing a % 4 would result in the shown behaviour
23:45:05 <Eddi|zuHause> BCD date? who in his right mind uses that?
23:47:12 <SpComb^> Eddi|zuHause: german banks? :)
23:50:10 <zachanima> 1:10 ratio of real-life to in-game population seems to work well for a 2048x2048 Denmark
23:50:26 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't have such a chip card yet, so i didn't look into the specifics of the bug...
23:51:37 <Eddi|zuHause> zachanima: remember to use the real-life population of the 19th century instead of current population...
23:51:58 <zachanima> not if I set the scenario at 2010
23:52:20 <zachanima> which is kind of what I intended - so as to recreate some of the more recent developments of the network
23:53:17 <Eddi|zuHause> imho it's bad to make the initial city size too large...
23:53:31 <Eddi|zuHause> you can't place stations properly...
23:53:52 <zachanima> Eddi|zuHause, indeed. Danish cities rarely have more than 200,000 inhabitants (sp?) though
23:54:02 <zachanima> which works out nicely as 20,000 in-game
23:54:49 <zachanima> Copenhagen being the obvious exception
23:55:17 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure if that's a newgrf issue, but in the USA map using NACS, New York starts with ~11k inhabitants and covers a huge area
23:56:34 <zachanima> hmm. I made a 100k Copenhagen and, while it did take up quite a lot of space, I think that could probably be halved by making sure it develops mostly skyscrapers (those DO have more people/tile, right?)
23:56:56 <zachanima> how big is the USA map?
23:57:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i think it's 2048^2
23:58:23 <zachanima> well 20k was not at all big when I just did it
23:59:14 <zachanima> with enough bribes and trees, is it possible to clear an arbitrary amount of houses?
continue to next day ⏵
