IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-02-23
            
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00:16:01 <Nite_Owl> Hello all
00:24:06 <PeterT> SmatZ: So, I see that the Big Brother patch implements a GUI of sorts. Does it actually log anything to file?
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00:26:05 <ccfreak2k> Big Brother patch?
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00:26:55 <PeterT> http://devs.openttd.org/~smatz/bb/
00:27:08 <PeterT> Oh, wait
00:27:17 <PeterT> I'm looking at bb_r19111.diff
00:27:19 <PeterT> woops
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00:30:28 <ccfreak2k> Smatz A and Smatz 1.
00:30:55 <PeterT> Hm?
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01:54:05 <CrazySpai> Hey!
01:54:33 <CrazySpai> Is #openttd open about answering questions?
01:54:44 <PeterT> Yes
01:54:49 <PeterT> And development talk
01:55:18 <CrazySpai> Well, my question is, is there a way to -not- have the game end.
01:55:25 <CrazySpai> (Server not single player)
01:55:37 <PeterT> Are you the server, or the client?
01:55:46 <CrazySpai> I'm both?
01:55:55 <PeterT> What do you mean by "end"?
01:56:04 <CrazySpai> The game ends at 2050 correct?
01:56:09 <PeterT> No
01:56:13 <CrazySpai> Oh?
01:56:16 <CrazySpai> I thought it did.
01:56:19 <PeterT> Well, it "ends", but it doesn't end.
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01:56:27 <CrazySpai> So.. the game doesn't reset?
01:56:28 <PeterT> it says it's over, but you can continue playing
01:56:39 <PeterT> the server decides when the game resets
01:56:40 <CrazySpai> Ah
01:56:55 <CrazySpai> Alright, in that case, thank you very much :D
01:57:04 <PeterT> You're welcome
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02:05:13 <Eddi|zuHause> there is a setting "restart_date" or something
02:05:29 <Eddi|zuHause> you can set that to year 5.000.000
02:06:00 <PeterT> CrazySpai: restart_game_year
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04:46:45 <CrazySpai> Thanks
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04:47:13 <CrazySpai> Is there a way to unlock bigger airports?
04:52:14 <FauxFaux> Time heals all desires for bigger airports.
04:52:37 <CrazySpai> Gotcha
04:52:46 <CrazySpai> and thanks Eddi|zuHause for the tip.
04:53:19 <CrazySpai> I'm gonna head to bed, I save the server in case my company clear command of 0 doesn't work ;)
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06:30:50 <kd5pbo> Hi folks.
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06:38:46 <Terkhen> good morning
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09:22:30 <peter1138> no you
09:22:47 <kd5pbo> ?
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09:32:45 <Pikka> peter peter pumpkin eater
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09:38:16 <Sacro> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/b4ylu/dear_proggit_in_response_to_the_worst_programmer/c0kzjbl
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10:01:34 <roboboy> hello
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10:17:02 <HackaLittleBit> good moaning
10:17:10 <roboboy> gmorning
10:17:13 <kd5pbo> Morning.
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10:56:21 <HackaBit> Imagine I have a tunnel with defined entrance and exit, and I do not wan't the pathfinder to continue to find a path
10:56:21 <HackaBit> when the first tile it encounters from a tunnel is the exit.
10:56:21 <HackaBit> Tunnel exit works like a one way signal that can only be passed from inside tunne to outside.
10:56:21 <HackaBit> So tunnel works as one-way signal.
10:56:21 <HackaBit> I would like to use a line like:
10:56:23 <HackaBit> If (Exit(tile) && lookingdirectionis towardstunnel ) {
10:56:24 <HackaBit> found inpassable signal
10:56:28 <HackaBit> return
10:56:30 <HackaBit> }
10:56:32 <HackaBit> Question 1:
10:56:34 <HackaBit> Do I have to look in the three PathFinders.?
10:56:36 <HackaBit> Question 2:
10:56:38 <HackaBit> I would like to use YAPF, so in wich file to look?
10:56:40 <HackaBit> Is there anybody willing to give me a hint?
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10:59:44 <Eddi|zuHause> you likely want to grep for "FollowTrack"
11:00:17 <Rubidium> 1) no, 2) have you tried searching for 'YAPF'?
11:00:36 <Rubidium> unless you're working on some old version of OpenTTD ofcourse
11:01:48 <HackaBit> working with trunk
11:02:18 * roboboy ponders trying ti apply the OpenTTD ScreenSaver patch
11:03:21 <HackaBit> but this is enough for now thanks, tonight I will contactfor more :)
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11:11:19 <roboboy> why does it take for ever for my nightly builds of openttd to start. im using the release option
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11:42:23 <Eddi|zuHause> large data directory?
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11:42:53 <Eddi|zuHause> it must scan all newgrfs etc. for their MD5
11:42:56 <PeterT> <roboboy> why does it take for ever for my nightly builds of openttd to start. im using the release option <-- Shit happens?
11:43:47 <roboboy> its most likel my Data dir is too large
11:44:40 <Eddi|zuHause> there have been rare occurances of people having a "data" dir that had nothing to do with openttd, but was in the current working directory, so openttd scanned it
11:46:40 <roboboy> whats the best way for me to update the revision my patchpack is applied to? Would SVN update be a good idea?
11:48:12 <Eddi|zuHause> hg queues or git are a better idea for patch packs
11:49:19 <PeterT> roboboy: Get another clean directory, updated to the given revision, then use your patch on that dir
11:49:40 <roboboy> ok
11:49:53 <Ammler> openttd doesn't compile on the oldest suse distro anymore: http://pastebin.ca/1806670 (SLES_9)
11:50:23 <Rubidium> should we start a vote on when this patchpack becomes unmaintained (i.e. it gets so big it becomes unmaintainable)?
11:51:21 <Noldo> Ammler: which version of g++?
11:51:50 <Rubidium> why override the version with configure?
11:52:29 <roboboy> but I get to chose what goes into my patchpack
11:53:16 <Rubidium> Noldo: I guess 3.3.x
11:57:06 <Ammler> yes, installing cpp-3.3.3-43.41
12:00:43 <Rubidium> that's the c preprocessor
12:00:47 <Ammler> RHEL 4 has cpp 3-4
12:00:51 <SirSquidness> Why are there so many plane crashes in games with disasters off?
12:01:03 <Ammler> 3.4*
12:01:51 <Eddi|zuHause> "gcc-c++-3.3.3-43.41"
12:02:24 <Eddi|zuHause> "gcc-3.3.3-43.41"
12:02:31 <Eddi|zuHause> those are the compilers
12:03:09 <Ammler> for those old distro, I had to make lzo2 pack, now all rpm distros on obs works fine for 1.0
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12:03:45 <Ammler> (well, except sles9)
12:04:24 <Eddi|zuHause> '--menu-group=Game;StrategyGame;' <-- that doesn't sound right...
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12:06:09 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: syntax or the names?
12:06:16 <Eddi|zuHause> the names
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12:06:24 <Ammler> what else?
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12:08:12 <Eddi|zuHause> don't know... but "strategy" isn't really in the game description :)
12:08:59 <Eddi|zuHause> something with economy...
12:09:06 <Eddi|zuHause> or simulation
12:09:19 <Rubidium> 'Urban planning and simulation game'
12:10:01 <Ammler> http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/menu-spec-1.0.html#category-registry
12:10:44 <Ammler> don't think, it is simulating...
12:11:12 <Eddi|zuHause> "Simulation" i would choose
12:11:28 <Eddi|zuHause> it's way more simulation than strategy ;)
12:11:53 <Ammler> sim city is also in that caegory for example
12:12:15 <Rubidium> sim city is a strategy game?
12:12:17 <Eddi|zuHause> that's probably wrong then, too ;)
12:13:06 <Eddi|zuHause> strategy is anything that involves getting to war, like civilization, master of orion, age of empires
12:13:11 <Ammler> hmm, dunno, where I initially looked
12:13:43 <Ammler> it is "Tactic & Strategy" in KDE
12:14:38 <Ammler> well, what is the official openttd dev category?
12:15:05 <Ammler> iirc none
12:15:58 <roboboy> You could call OpenTTD simulation, infact CS called TTO Interactive Transport Simulator
12:16:14 <Eddi|zuHause> really, anything that doesn't involve war, shouldn't go into strategy...
12:16:22 <SmatZ> SirSquidness: those aren't disasters; you can turn off crashes in the Advanced Settings (in 1.0 or nightlies)
12:16:34 <Ammler> roboboy: it isn't the publisher, who tells the category.
12:16:43 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: does chess involve war?
12:17:00 <kannerke> economy = war
12:17:03 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: knights fighting each other? certainly is war.
12:17:34 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: you don't need strategy, if you play in MP?
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12:18:25 <Rubidium> if OpenTTD is a strategy game, then TTD is and Railroad Tycoon is too
12:18:27 <Ammler> he, maybe TTD was a simulator, but openttd isn't anymore ;-)
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12:19:06 <SirSquidness> SmatZ: ah, kthnx
12:19:30 <SirSquidness> SmatZ: any idea where the option is?
12:19:49 <Rubidium> according to http://www.andynash.com/nash-publications/2009-Nash-Web2forPT-14nov09.pdf OpenTTD is a simulation game
12:20:23 <Ammler> well, I remove it...
12:20:30 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: some people say (yay weasels) that age of empires is both a simulation and a strategy game
12:21:50 <SirSquidness> nm, found it
12:21:57 <Ammler> SLES_9 ends at 31 Aug 2011
12:22:40 <SmatZ> SirSquidness: :)
12:22:55 <Ammler> there is no supported debian distro anymore with a gcc 3.3?
12:23:15 <Ammler> cpp*
12:23:32 <SmatZ> cpp 3.3?
12:23:49 <Ammler> cpp-3.3.3
12:23:54 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: cpp is only the preprocessor
12:23:59 <Eddi|zuHause> gcc is the c compiler
12:24:06 <Eddi|zuHause> and gcc-c++ is the c++ compiler
12:24:34 <SmatZ> actually, it's only the frontend
12:24:38 <SmatZ> compiler is cc1/cc1plus
12:25:01 <SmatZ> gcc/g++ calls preprocessor, compiler, assembler and linker
12:25:01 <Eddi|zuHause> nitpicking++ :p
12:25:04 <SmatZ> hehe
12:25:09 <Ammler> libgcc-3.3.3
12:25:26 <SmatZ> that's some compatibility library for program compiled with old gcc
12:25:55 <Ammler> SmatZ: http://pastebin.ca/1806670
12:26:32 <Ammler> (the whole setup and compile with sles9, might be interesting at bottom :-)
12:27:11 <SmatZ> @commit 19207
12:27:11 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: Commit by smatz :: r19207 trunk/src/misc/str.hpp (2010-02-22 16:24:38 UTC)
12:27:12 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: -Fix (r19127): compilation was broken for gcc 3.3
12:27:17 <SmatZ> Ammler: ^^^
12:27:48 <Ammler> 0.7.5 worked with it
12:28:15 <SmatZ> it was broken by r19127
12:28:29 <Ammler> ah, fine :-)
12:28:47 <Ammler> so it will be fixed on next RC...
12:29:13 <SmatZ> yes
12:29:40 <SmatZ> or you can apply http://devs.openttd.org/~smatz/fix_r19127_gcc33.diff
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12:31:56 <Ammler> Fedora does the same: --add-category=StrategyGame
12:32:13 <Ammler> blathijs: what category do you use?
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12:35:57 <roboboy> ello andy
12:36:57 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: I guess, packman uses simulator...
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13:06:07 <Gar`zzz> Oh my god! A Dodo bird stole my keys! D8
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13:08:39 <roboboy> what happened with the iphone/itouch port?
13:09:32 <Gar`zzz> It turned and became starboard.
13:09:38 <Gar`zzz> 8D
13:12:06 <blathijs> Ammler: Simulation I think
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13:49:10 <roboboy> gmornight
13:52:03 <SmatZ> hello roboboy
13:52:55 <roboboy> I managed to get DOS TTDP to start so long as I turned newstations off and enhancedgui off
13:54:13 <roboboy> Apparently its something in enhancedgui thats broken and newstations automatically turns enhancedgui on if its turned on
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14:02:20 <SmatZ> roboboy: I have more problems running TTDP :( It fails to start with cargodest
14:03:36 <SmatZ> maybe it's a bug in dosbox....
14:04:42 <roboboy> maybe
14:05:38 <roboboy> well I might have a machine running win 95 by Sunday so I can test it under real DOS
14:06:11 <roboboy> I have a spare PC lying around and its PS died but I can get a new PS for $30
14:07:56 <SmatZ> I have "old" PC too
14:08:01 <SmatZ> but it doesn't have CD drive
14:08:22 <SmatZ> mmmm floppies :)
14:08:33 <roboboy> mine has both
14:08:59 <roboboy> I destroyed a CD drive yesterday
14:09:25 <roboboy> it wouldn't open so we pulled it apart to see if there was a CD in it
14:10:09 <Eddi|zuHause> and you didn't happen to try the emergency eject button first?
14:10:35 <roboboy> I did
14:11:04 <roboboy> you mean the little hole to stick a paper clip into
14:11:13 <Belugas> \hello
14:11:14 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that one
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14:16:57 <roboboy> gnight
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14:29:22 <Gar`zzz> Hiya all!
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14:32:26 <SmatZ> night roboboy
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15:08:08 <yorick> what happened to minilzo?
15:08:22 <peter1138> alas, poor yorick, it was removed
15:09:08 <yorick> I noticed, but why
15:09:28 <Belugas> for the Greater Good of Mankind
15:09:38 <peter1138> because a system library version of it exists
15:09:43 <peter1138> so we use that instead
15:09:54 <peter1138> so we have less code to maintain
15:09:59 <yorick> didn't a system library version of it exist all the time?
15:10:20 <peter1138> probably. so?
15:10:33 <yorick> :/
15:10:40 <yorick> but then why not use that from the beginning
15:11:00 <Eddi|zuHause> ammler just said for SLES 9 it didn't exist
15:11:14 <yorick> hmm
15:11:36 <Ammler> centos doesn't have it in the system repos
15:11:36 <yorick> who uses lzo saves anyways
15:11:44 <Eddi|zuHause> hysterical raisins
15:13:04 <Ammler> (or RHEL)
15:13:49 <peter1138> yorick, well, we can't answer that. it has not been the same dev team from the beginning
15:14:12 <planetmaker> the only thing constant is change ;-)
15:14:18 <peter1138> presumably originally it was felt a good idea to include it
15:14:27 <Rubidium> yeah, even the 'constant' speed of light is not constant
15:14:38 <yorick> planetmaker: until it dies
15:14:38 <planetmaker> besides it's not a hard requirement. So... not a bad thing
15:15:03 <planetmaker> yorick, you think that then there's no change anymore?
15:15:04 <Belugas> why are you concerned about minilzo, yorick?
15:15:33 <yorick> because of the (optional) extra dependency
15:16:04 <Rubidium> peter1138: I reckon originally there were no external libraries. Adding LZO would mean adding a library 'infrastructure'. Over time zlib got added which introduced the library 'infrastructure', then more libraries came and finally minilzo got replaced by a library
15:16:33 <peter1138> yes
15:16:39 <Rubidium> besides that the standard minilzo headers cause an enormous amount of compile warnings with our set of warnings enabled
15:16:41 <peter1138> i think so too
15:17:09 <Rubidium> which means we need to mess with them, which is bad. Having the header in the system headers means gcc doesn't complain about it, i.e. no compile warnings
15:17:35 <peter1138> libopenttd :D
15:18:46 <Rubidium> yeah, then someone can write his own GUI!
15:19:35 * yorick thinks it's an idea
15:21:23 <Ammler> ajaxttd
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15:27:27 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i don't find the discussion anymore where it was said the maximum production of an industry depends on the number of tiles the industry has...
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15:33:21 <peter1138> does it depend on that?
15:34:04 <Eddi|zuHause> i believe so, but i can't find the reference...
15:34:46 <Belugas> that is... strange. I can't remember anything about that
15:35:25 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: was the reference in German? And written by, well say... one of the dimwits?
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15:38:05 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think it was german
15:38:12 <Eddi|zuHause> but i don't remember
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15:40:59 <Eddi|zuHause> it involved coop people talking about how they load balanced four factories, or something...
15:46:18 <Ammler> the game with "WP-bug"
15:49:05 <Eddi|zuHause> "The goal of was to transport enough grain and livestock to produce 100,000 crates of goods per month.[1]. Later in the game we were limited by OTTD production limit of secondaries, which is roughly 2295 per industry tile per month. For factories, it means 27,540 crates of goods per month - so we had to build four factories and balance them well. We managed to accomplish our goal in 2177."
15:49:14 <Eddi|zuHause> public server game 121
15:49:48 <peter1138> ah, openttdcoop?
15:49:55 <peter1138> they rarely know what they're talking about
15:50:30 <Ammler> :-)
15:51:31 <peter1138> isn't 2295 the limit per industry? not per tile..
15:51:41 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19219 /trunk/src/music.cpp: -Fix: having OpenMSX's files in a subdirectory did not work as it should.
15:52:03 <Yexo> peter1138: only for primary industries
15:54:46 <peter1138> so is it right?
15:55:06 <Yexo> I don't know, it might be right
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15:58:05 <Belugas> a fun fact: industries have absolutely no clue how many tiles they are composed of
15:59:51 <Rubidium> looks like every tileloop cargo is transported
16:00:02 <planetmaker> <peter1138> isn't 2295 the limit per industry? not per tile. <-- definitely not for secondary. For primary at least close
16:01:09 <planetmaker> The limit mentioned in the quoted text is one "experimentally" established by one of those "heavy-duty" players ;-)
16:01:58 <planetmaker> e.g. if you show a (default) factory to produce significantly more, I'm happy to see it, otherwise I tend to believe that statement.
16:02:33 <Ammler> coop is ALWAYS right :-P
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16:05:33 <Rubidium> once every 256 ticks for every tile at most 255 of the waiting produced cargo is moved to the produced cargo
16:05:51 <Belugas> mmh... i hate that... can't remenber where the funiton is located withouth useuign a grep :(
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16:06:45 * planetmaker hugs Belugas
16:06:56 <planetmaker> grab the grep ;-)
16:06:59 <Rubidium> meaning an average of 2244 per tile per month
16:08:18 <planetmaker> quite close then what was actually produced ;-)
16:08:36 <Rubidium> which means on average a little under 27000 per month per 12-tile factory
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16:08:58 <Rubidium> assuming 365.25/12 days per average month
16:09:49 <planetmaker> @calc 9*256
16:09:49 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 2304
16:09:55 <planetmaker> @calc 9*256*12
16:09:55 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 27648
16:10:08 <planetmaker> ^ if it's amonth with 9 of such consumption events
16:10:21 <Rubidium> nope
16:10:35 <Rubidium> 27540 is the right number
16:11:20 <planetmaker> hm, how does it calculate?
16:11:55 <Rubidium> like I described, but you're mixing up numbers
16:12:07 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: does that mean only tiles within reach of a station get considered?
16:12:26 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: no
16:12:44 <planetmaker> @calc 9*255*12
16:12:44 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 27540
16:12:49 <Rubidium> moving production happens in the tile loop, which runs over *all* tiles
16:12:49 <planetmaker> right ;-)
16:13:17 <Belugas> so the only limit is the amx 255 per tile per loop
16:13:42 <planetmaker> that's the cause. The rest are then derived limits
16:13:57 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: but how is the station found that should get these 255 goods?
16:13:59 <Belugas> ah... station_cmd.cpp...
16:14:19 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, in the usual way, I assume?
16:14:31 <Belugas> Eddi|zuHause : MoveGoodsToStation -> station_cmd.cpp
16:14:37 <Belugas> at least on the version i have...
16:15:29 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: the station is found using the 'location' of the industry
16:15:43 <Rubidium> i.e. the bounding box of the industry
16:15:51 <Eddi|zuHause> ah, ok
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16:18:58 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't find a filter for location in MoveGoodsToStation...
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16:28:43 <Ammler> Error: Assertion failed at line 102 of /usr/src/OpenTTD/compile/src/os/unix/unix.cpp: path[strlen(path) - 1] == PATHSEPCHAR <-- with nightly r19163
16:28:49 <Ammler> on startup
16:30:39 <Eddi|zuHause> so the path didn't end with a pathsep
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16:31:32 <Eddi|zuHause> can you -d <high level> to find out which file it's trying to open?
16:31:43 <Rubidium> what the where you doing
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16:32:18 <Eddi|zuHause> feature request: disable sounds in the title screen
16:32:38 <Rubidium> use nosound!
16:32:51 <Rubidium> or use another title screen
16:32:52 <Eddi|zuHause> feature request: disable sounds _only_ in the title screen
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16:33:13 <Rubidium> oh, that reminds me
16:33:19 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, use your loud speakers volume control ;-)
16:33:22 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: ./configure --without-zlib && make run
16:33:31 <Eddi|zuHause> haha :p
16:36:13 <Ammler> http://pastebin.ca/1807004
16:36:25 <Ammler> dunno, if there is more visible
16:37:02 <Ammler> it looks like something with the system
16:37:14 <Ammler> as self compiled also Asserts
16:37:31 <Ammler> but the package (1.0-RC1) I just made works
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16:43:11 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i usually like the sounds, but they get annoing very fast when doing something on the main menu, like settings or online content
16:44:00 <Eddi|zuHause> so... cargodist or not?
16:44:26 <Ammler> fresh compiled trunkt tip: http://pastebin.ca/1807008
16:45:46 <Rubidium> Ammler: build a debug build and run it in gdb; maybe then some useful information is retained
16:46:35 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, especially the value of path might be useful
16:51:35 <Ammler> it is something in the trunk, branch 1.0 works
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16:52:30 <Rubidium> but the diff between both isn't that big
16:54:42 <Ammler> make run-gdb is the target for debug?
16:55:12 <Rubidium> you said r19163 is broken too, right?
16:55:27 <Ammler> no
16:55:42 <Ammler> something is broken with my last suse update
16:55:51 <Ammler> where I can't run it anymore
16:56:43 <Rubidium> libc?
16:56:50 <Ammler> possible
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16:58:30 <Eddi|zuHause> make run-gdb is for running in the debugger, it doesn't magically configure an unstripped/debug build
16:59:09 <Eddi|zuHause> for that you do somthing like ./configure --enable-debug 3 or so...
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17:00:41 <Ammler> oh, fresh compiled 1.0 fails too
17:00:44 <Ammler> :-(
17:03:43 <Ammler> oh, RC1 does compile without asserts?
17:04:02 <Ammler> then, this is the reason, that works :-)
17:04:03 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, releases tend to have asserts disabled
17:04:05 <Rubidium> it compiles with asserts
17:04:15 <Ammler> thought, thought prereleases don't
17:04:41 <Ammler> don't without*
17:05:42 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: only 'stable' gets released with asserts disabled; the rest has asserts enabled
17:06:19 <Eddi|zuHause> alright...
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17:08:23 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... updating cargodist takes so long i lose interest in it before it's finished...
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17:34:13 <Ammler> http://pastebin.ca/1807049 <-- what next?
17:34:53 <Eddi|zuHause> "bt"
17:35:25 <Eddi|zuHause> then "up" [enter]* until you are in a function that's not a crash handler
17:35:46 <Eddi|zuHause> then something like "print path"
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17:36:02 <Yexo> or directly "bt full" and copy all output
17:36:28 <Ammler> http://pastebin.ca/1807053
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17:37:44 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: looks like it's recursing through "openttd" directories (symlinks?)
17:37:50 <Rubidium> ooh... symlink massacre :)
17:38:15 <Rubidium> odd that that didn't happen before and only after a recompile
17:38:27 <Ammler> those are fresh checkouts
17:38:34 <Ammler> no additional files
17:38:44 <Ammler> (or symlinks)
17:39:05 <Ammler> ah, in openttd/data, ok :-)
17:39:10 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: so then what is /usr/local/share/games/openttd/data/openttd?
17:39:19 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19220 /trunk/os/windows/installer/install.nsi: -Change: remove NoSound from the installer and add OpenMSX.
17:39:47 <Ammler> I added that, so local installs can use the opengfx installed with rpm
17:39:59 <Ammler> or local compiles
17:40:12 <Ammler> but that worked once...
17:41:05 <Rubidium> the code seems to imply that you've got an infinite recursion with symlinks (or something is horribly wrong with libc)
17:42:21 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: that is not an answer to my question
17:42:33 <Ammler> Oh, I see :-)
17:42:57 <Ammler> inspiron:/usr/share/openttd/data # l openttd
17:42:59 <Ammler> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 1 2010-02-22 16:25 openttd -> ./
17:43:13 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, and that's what it chokes on...
17:43:17 <Rubidium> so, infinite recursion
17:43:37 <Ammler> yes, I forgot to remove that again from the "backport"...
17:43:40 <Eddi|zuHause> because it gets longer and longer, until the path does not fit into the buffer anymore
17:43:59 <Rubidium> be happy there're no massive amounts on NewGRFs in those dirs because then it takes ages before it starts (if at all)
17:44:30 <Ammler> openttd branches to symlink the trunk openttd
17:44:34 <Ammler> do*
17:44:45 <Ammler> because shared-dir didn't work
17:44:59 <Eddi|zuHause> what?
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17:46:09 <Eddi|zuHause> ah, so you make a sumlink openttd-branch/data -> openttd/data
17:46:15 <Eddi|zuHause> symlink
17:46:24 <Eddi|zuHause> but why does shared dir not work?
17:46:44 <Ammler> that is a windows only feature, afaik.
17:47:21 <Eddi|zuHause> shared-dir was introduced for mac, with the comment "this should work for other platforms as well"
17:47:32 <Ammler> or mac :-)
17:47:49 <Eddi|zuHause> if it doesn't work, it might be useful to fix
17:47:49 <Ammler> maybe, I should try again...
17:48:34 <Ammler> but thanks, cool debug helped
17:49:30 <Yexo> Ammler: does it still crash if you apply this patch?
17:49:31 <Yexo> http://devs.openttd.org/~yexo/fix.diff
17:50:04 <Rubidium> Yexo: probably not
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17:51:09 <Ammler> hmm, do I need to rebuild?
17:51:20 <Rubidium> because if path+d_name isn't truncated there, it can still get in trouble at the AppendPathSeparator at line 768
17:51:29 <Ammler> it compiled filio.cpp only and still asserted
17:52:44 <Eddi|zuHause> what if the path truncates exactly at the pathsep?
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17:54:41 <Eddi|zuHause> is there a function that checks whether two files/directories opened via different paths are the same?
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18:02:47 <Eddi|zuHause> hey... that can't be right... git fetch is still running...
18:03:33 <Eddi|zuHause> it's over an HOUR now...
18:03:52 <Belugas> bwarf.. wasted my lunch hour.... nothing to shoot:( grey day = grey pictures
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18:05:37 <Eddi|zuHause> Resuming fetch of pack 6070560482e8fff0718af0ca76680e4c9a106c2c at byte 113267520 <-- why is that more than 100MB?!?
18:05:56 <Eddi|zuHause> and where is fonsinchen?
18:08:56 <Rubidium> he can't join because his internet is too slow?
18:09:20 <Eddi|zuHause> no really, wtf is git doing there?!
18:09:37 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: What are you git fetching?
18:09:46 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: cargodist
18:09:53 <Eddi|zuHause> http://fickzoo.com/fonsinchen/openttd.git
18:09:59 <OwenS> You do realise Git fetches the repo's full history, right?
18:10:08 <SpComb^> OwenS: not clone, fetch
18:10:17 <SpComb^> OwenS: i.e. update over the last week or two
18:10:24 <OwenS> Hmm.. Someone's been doing too many git rebases?
18:10:35 <Eddi|zuHause> well, one or two months maybe
18:11:07 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: how is that relevant?
18:11:16 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: git rebase = history rewriting
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18:11:56 <OwenS> If one rebases significantly then they can cause all the hashes in their repo to change (i.e. complete refetch)
18:12:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea what that means...
18:12:45 <OwenS> In other words, all the revision IDs have changed because the maintainer has trashed the repo's history
18:13:03 <OwenS> Alternatively, it could be because you're using git over http, as git http support is dumb
18:13:42 <Eddi|zuHause> it's fucking annoying...
18:14:07 <OwenS> Tell him to set up a git-daemon instance (i.e. git://) or use SSH :p
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18:23:44 <Eddi|zuHause> -r--r--r-- 1 johannes users 134436889 30. Dez 15:20 pack-941035bd025be71a1a80f70b805a90214dbc78c5.pack
18:23:46 <Eddi|zuHause> -rw-r--r-- 1 johannes users 133544145 9. Jan 19:45 pack-fb9557f0498116a53566bd1ababfc2d9bae248e9.pack
18:24:01 <Eddi|zuHause> -rw-r--r-- 1 johannes users 135002880 23. Feb 19:18 pack-6070560482e8fff0718af0ca76680e4c9a106c2c.pack.temp
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18:32:28 <SpComb^> Eddi|zuHause: ls -lh
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18:34:04 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb^: doesn't change that the files are >100MB :p
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18:36:03 <SpComb^> makes it more obvious
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18:38:36 <Eddi|zuHause> -rw-r--r-- 1 johannes users 145795108 23. Feb 19:30 pack-6070560482e8fff0718af0ca76680e4c9a106c2c.pack <-- the file is now done, not sure what git is doing now...
18:41:37 <aber> What's the mnemonic for -h ?
18:42:36 <Eddi|zuHause> human readable?
18:46:13 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r19221 /trunk/src/lang/ (19 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
18:46:13 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:46:13 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: afrikaans - 44 changes by Kayos
18:46:13 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: croatian - 4 changes by VoyagerOne
18:46:13 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: finnish - 7 changes by jpx_
18:46:15 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: french - 6 changes by glx
18:46:15 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frisian - 35 changes by Fopper
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19:49:58 <sparr> I'm trying not to spam too much about the cargo competition bug... I replied to the relevant thread on the forums, but someone previously mentioned that similar issues should go in the development forum instead of the problems forum. Is that common?
19:54:09 <Eddi|zuHause> only patches and problems with these patches go in the development forum
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20:39:02 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't suppose there's a road vehicle set that goes with NARS
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20:43:03 <PeterT> [15:42:08] <PeterT> Your logic is wrong
20:43:04 <PeterT> [15:42:18] <Mega> logic cant be wrong
20:43:04 <PeterT> Sign
20:43:07 <PeterT> *Sigh
20:44:06 <Eddi|zuHause> that's logical ;)
20:49:16 <__ln__> well why not
20:49:50 <__ln__> logic is based on some theorems; if they contradict each other, then isn't that wrong
20:50:44 <Eddi|zuHause> "contradictory" and "wrong" are two entirely separate things
20:51:44 <Eddi|zuHause> err... segmentation fault...
20:52:01 <__ln__> see
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20:53:47 <Eddi|zuHause> and now inflate() failed?
20:55:12 <Eddi|zuHause> funny... i downloaded a 3.7MB file, but it is 8.7MB large :p
20:56:24 <PeterT> You're 8.7MB large.
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21:05:02 <Nite_Owl> Hello all
21:12:16 <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: i'm not familiar with that culture, but is that the place to provoke a "that's what she said"?
21:12:32 <PeterT> No
21:12:56 <PeterT> Something like: "It hurt me to put it in." would be a that's what she said
21:14:22 <Eddi|zuHause> oh... i thought anything that involved the word "large" or "small" or otherwise playing on size would be appropriate...
21:14:47 * Eddi|zuHause goes writing in his notes again: still not understood culture...
21:16:15 <PeterT> Right
21:16:17 <PeterT> well
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21:16:29 <PeterT> "Oh gawd, that is way too big for me!" Would work
21:19:02 <Eddi|zuHause> it's way easier over here... kids just laugh at everything involving the number 6
21:19:30 <PeterT> That doesn't make very much sense?
21:19:34 <Nite_Owl> The Prisoner fans are they ??
21:19:46 <PeterT> 6 isn't a very sexual number, 69 perhaps
21:20:11 <__ln__> that's pornographic, not sexual
21:23:19 <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: it's that 6 is "sechs" in german, which sounds the same as "sex"
21:23:43 <Eddi|zuHause> only the s is a little sharper in "sex" than in "sechs"
21:25:23 <frosch123> that difference is smaller than the word spoken in various dialects
21:26:09 * Nite_Owl revels in the obscure
21:27:58 <PeterT> Google translate does not have an audio version of "Sechs" :-(
21:29:26 <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: http://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/Sechs
21:29:57 <PeterT> In german, it sounds more like "zex"
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21:33:25 <Eddi|zuHause> that's what i said, the s in "sex" is sharper...
21:33:32 <Eddi|zuHause> voiceless
21:34:10 <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: it's close enough to make fun of when you're 12...
21:36:07 <aber> http://dict.leo.org/
21:37:23 <ashb> "That's what she said" can be used as a retort for pretty much anything
21:37:28 <ashb> as can "So's your face"
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21:49:49 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i can never remember how to set the parameters of ECS
21:50:34 <Eddi|zuHause> especially because the "general behaviour" parameter is not always the first one...
21:50:42 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea what george was thinking...
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22:12:46 <Terkhen> good night
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22:20:16 <__ln__> är kanalens jourhavande svensk på kanalen?
22:21:18 <SpComb^> "I verify in the Boot Dock if I put the oil boat to put there the oil to pass to a train the oil despaired if there are no train in the dock"
22:21:21 <SpComb^> intelligble
22:21:26 <Eddi|zuHause> english only.
22:22:18 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb^: he says "when i transfer oil from a ship to a train, and there is no train waiting, the oil disappears
22:23:26 <__ln__> some would call that an environmental catastrophe
22:23:42 <Nite_Owl> not everyone is brilliant or even multilingual
22:25:11 <SpComb^> Eddi|zuHause: fonso replied, you need to tell him it wasn't a clone
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22:28:55 <CrazySpai> Hello once again
22:29:28 <CrazySpai> I've looked all around and yet cannont find the answer to my question, what is the purpose of the "stocks" if they are always greyed out?
22:30:52 <Rubidium> you need to enable them via advanced settings
22:32:02 <Eddi|zuHause> also the company must be more than 6(?) years old
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22:35:31 <PeterT> Yes, 6
22:35:47 <Eddi|zuHause> hahaha, he said 6! :p
22:35:58 <PeterT> I said six.
22:36:20 <PeterT> it's not that funny-sounding when you read in English
22:37:04 <devilsadvocate> "r kanalens jourhavande svensk p kanalen?" translates to ""I verify in the Boot Dock if I put the oil boat to put there the oil to pass to a train the oil despaired if there are no train in the dock"?
22:37:20 <devilsadvocate> thats a high density language :\
22:37:51 <CrazySpai> How does one enable stocks via the openttd config file?
22:38:32 <CrazySpai> nvm
22:38:34 <CrazySpai> Found it
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22:49:22 <PeterT> Eddi|zuHause: So then the only way for someone to understand the "6" joke, is if they knew what the word "sex" is
22:49:29 <PeterT> Is it the same in German?
22:50:06 <Eddi|zuHause> it's fairly well-known ;)
22:52:39 <Eddi|zuHause> you know, german words are longer than english words, so english words have it easy to sift into the language
22:52:53 <Eddi|zuHause> so, if you compare "sex" to "Geschlechtsverkehr"...
22:53:01 <PeterT> haha
22:53:11 <PeterT> Geschlechtsverkehr is secks?
22:53:19 <Rubidium> well, you Germans are good in making your own words :)
22:53:39 <Eddi|zuHause> plus, you hear it in movies and songs...
22:53:59 <devilsadvocate> does anyone actually _use_ that word in conversation?
22:54:05 <Rubidium> what? They don't dub songs?
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22:54:24 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: actually, they do ;)
22:54:56 <lugo> gelb gelb gelb ist die yellow suybmarin
22:55:19 <Eddi|zuHause> the beatles actually translated some of their songs into german
22:56:52 <Rubidium> ah well, we just export our crappy presenters to you lot :)
22:56:55 <Eddi|zuHause> what i meant: even in dubbed movies they use the word "sex"
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23:02:14 <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: "Geschlechtsverkehr" means "sexual intercourse", only the germans have no funny abbreviation...
23:02:42 <Eddi|zuHause> occasionally "GV"...
23:03:45 <PeterT> funny abbreviation?
23:03:54 <PeterT> !logs
23:03:57 <PeterT> @logs
23:05:48 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... is it normal that the ECS cement plant accepts "regearing"?
23:06:09 <Yexo> you use nars?
23:06:25 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah
23:06:28 <Coco-Banana-Man> nope, but NARS replaces limestone with (regearing)
23:06:39 <Yexo> nars only works with ecs if you disable regearing
23:06:43 <Yexo> there is some parameter for it
23:07:10 <Coco-Banana-Man> I'm loading NARS before ECS so my locos are loading limestone :P
23:07:16 <Eddi|zuHause> if only they would say that from within openttd
23:07:44 <Coco-Banana-Man> hmm
23:07:50 <Nite_Owl> It might be on the NARS wiki
23:07:58 <Eddi|zuHause> just fucking tell the parameters in the description, damnit!
23:08:27 <Coco-Banana-Man> but when I loaded ECS and NARS together (with NARS after ECS), the cement plant only accepted Sand and no limestone/regearing :/
23:08:59 <Coco-Banana-Man> and the quarry was only accepting vehicles and not producing anything.
23:09:33 <Coco-Banana-Man> what do you mean by description, Eddi?
23:09:39 <Nite_Owl> I have the parameters on a text file on, I think, page 25 of the NARS thread
23:09:44 <Coco-Banana-Man> the readme file or that in-game box?
23:09:53 <Eddi|zuHause> the ingame box
23:10:10 <Eddi|zuHause> as in Action 8 - grfid - name - description
23:10:14 <Coco-Banana-Man> There are probably far too much parameters to show them there...
23:10:32 <Eddi|zuHause> there is plenty of space
23:10:53 <Coco-Banana-Man> http://users.tt-forums.net/pikka/wiki/index.php?title=NARS_GRF_Parameters
23:11:11 <Eddi|zuHause> by trial-and-error, 2 seems to be the right parameter
23:12:43 <Nite_Owl> correct - 1st parameter = 2 disables regearing
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23:16:26 <Nite_Owl> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=811651#p811651
23:16:47 <Nite_Owl> page 21 - my bad - that is the text file
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23:19:04 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19222 /branches/1.0/src/ (6 files in 3 dirs):
23:19:04 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: [1.0] -Backport from trunk:
23:19:04 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Change: Improve error message with track building when signals are in the way (r19190, r19189)
23:19:04 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: GetDestination() is invalid for nearest-depot orders (r19210)
23:19:04 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: Compilation was broken for gcc 3.3 (r19207)
23:19:05 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: The vehicle info in the autoreplace gui was drawn even when the window was shaded [FS#3634] (r19187)
23:19:07 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: When selecting 'build many industries' in the scenario editor the 'build' button was not enabled [FS#3632] (r19176)
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23:21:46 <Nite_Owl> now that was odd
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23:25:56 <Eddi|zuHause> no, both your quit time and your join time are even ;)
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23:26:49 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19223 /branches/1.0/ (32 files in 8 dirs):
23:26:49 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: [1.0] -Backport from trunk:
23:26:49 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Feature: Add OpenMSX to the installer (r19220, r19219)
23:26:49 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Feature: [NewGRF] Add CB36 support for aircraft properties 0F and 11 (r19218)
23:26:50 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Feature: Scroll to current order destination when ctrl+clicking the start/stop bar (r19216, r19215)
23:26:51 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Feature: Concept of fallback base sets, i.e. do not automatically load the NoMusic/NoSound sets when there is another set; make NoSound part of base installations (r19214, r19213, r19212, r19211, r19206)
23:26:53 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Feature: Support for genders for cargos, industries, vehicles, stations (r19180, r19179, r19178, r19177)
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23:27:14 <Nite_Owl> not that but the fact that it was involuntary
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23:34:29 <Eddi|zuHause> what about genders for newgrf strings?
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23:35:37 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: that needs some very serious work/design first
23:36:19 <Rubidium> I've brainstormed about it quite a number of times, but it's pretty darn non-trivial
23:36:44 <Rubidium> e.g. genders can change over time making the mapping in the NewGRF invalid
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23:37:23 <Eddi|zuHause> well, that should be the responsibility of the newgrf author
23:37:24 <Rubidium> also there needs to be some sort of way to encode cases, although it has more or less the same problems
23:38:04 <Rubidium> and then ttdp needs some way to filter the gender/case code out of the strings before drawing
23:38:07 <Eddi|zuHause> openttd should only add some sanity checks for genders/cases in case they mismatch
23:38:21 <Eddi|zuHause> and fallback to the default behaviour in that case
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23:57:07 <Nite_Owl> need to feed - later all
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