IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-02-22
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00:22:36 <Ammler> Hey, good work Rubidium, didn't expect annoucement of round 2 that fast :-)
00:23:06 <PeterT> shiiiiiiiiit, i missed voting
00:24:16 <__ln__> no shit, obama was elected over a year ago.
00:24:18 <Rubidium> well, the grades seemed stable the last half week, so I just prepared everything; if the grading made the first 3 change I only needed to copy another set of savegames/screenshots which is almost trivial to do
00:27:13 <PeterT> Rubidium: Where did you get OpenTTD 1.0.0 from? :-P
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00:32:26 <PeterT> Rubidium: the link to all the save games on your round 2 page is broken
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01:48:55 <Bluelight> Is this the map size? map_x = 10
01:49:07 <PeterT> Bluelight: for what, where?
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08:25:04 <roboboy> grr my OpenTTD has stopped building
08:38:09 <roboboy> Is it a bad idea to rename the folder my OpenTTD source is in?
08:41:37 <roboboy> hm I renambed the folder my source is in and now it fails to compile
08:41:59 <roboboy> it goes looking for a file under the old foldername
08:43:32 <Ammler> well, then you lost :-P
08:43:40 <Ammler> no, sorry, no idea there...
08:43:51 <roboboy> It also seems to be a file thats generated on build that teels it to go looking in this location
08:43:54 <ccfreak2k> roboboy, wasn't a problem for me.
08:44:12 <ccfreak2k> But then I switched to a custom static makefile.
08:45:05 <roboboy> c:\Users\Leo.Giusti\Documents\Visual Studio 2008\Projects\OpenTTD\r19145\src\thread\thread_win32.cpp is the path its looking for but the revision should be r19163
08:47:39 <roboboy> if I rename the folder to the old name it starts looking for files under the name it currently has
08:59:27 <roboboy> hm setting it to debug allowed it to compile
09:03:20 <Zuu> Rubidium: The download links for the savegames of round2 have not been updated for v2 and give a 404.
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09:17:16 <roboboy> I wonder why ompiling a debug build worked but not a release
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09:20:08 <roboboy> hm I might just create a new directory and start again
09:25:13 <Zuu> MSVC? Did you change the project properties to set library paths?
09:25:29 <Zuu> If you did so, then you probably need to do that for both debug and release.
09:26:05 <Zuu> I usually don't edit project properties for libraries, but instead set those path globally in the MSVC properties.
09:30:12 <roboboy> I changed all my OpenTTD include and library settings to global settings
09:32:16 <roboboy> well I think my new copy of r1613 plus my patches is compiling in release mode
09:33:17 <roboboy> well its further than it as on my other checkout
09:40:10 <Zuu> I guess you found it, but otherwise it is the links to the zip-files.
09:40:40 <Rubidium> Zuu: should be fixed now
09:43:03 <Zuu> Oh, all the round2 title games are smaller in file size than the current title game.
09:45:14 <planetmaker> he, interesting :-)
09:46:52 <Rubidium> and likely they're going to be a tiny bit smaller when adding them to trunk
09:48:43 <planetmaker> how would they shrink in size?
09:49:30 <planetmaker> and Zuu asked an interesting question: do you add it to trunk or to the 1.0 branch?
09:49:58 <planetmaker> I would even see reason to only add it to the 1.0 branch: you keep the old savegame loading test savegame
09:50:06 <planetmaker> (what a nice word combination! :-P )
09:50:38 <Zuu> I mentioned it, but IIRC I didn't do it as a question. :-)
09:50:40 <planetmaker> hm, I though. Or you stated that it would only be the stable branch. ;-)
09:51:33 <planetmaker> so I take your savegame is in round two, too, yes? :-)
09:51:54 <planetmaker> which reminds me... I should vote. Now
09:52:28 <Rubidium> planetmaker: yes, only for the 1.0 branch; the old savegame stays in trunk
09:52:34 <Zuu> Yep, both our savegames somehow got to round 2. :-)
09:54:59 <planetmaker> Zuu, interestingly those three savegames which I rated highest are now in the final round :-)
09:55:12 <planetmaker> Except my own I didn't know for whom I voted, so :-) congratz
09:56:30 <Zuu> I didn't vote highest for any of the round2-savegames (though all three are >= 7)
09:57:03 <planetmaker> I didn't mean highest = 10. But my top 3.
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10:08:12 <planetmaker> Rubidium, so might be a new competition every year for every release branch?
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10:27:13 <Pikka> or frosch who isn't here!
10:28:13 <ccfreak2k> What happened to callbacks 0-35?
10:28:53 <Pikka> they only start from 10, and nothing?
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10:30:18 <Pikka> I guess Eddi would do...
10:30:57 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think so...
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10:42:44 <Rubidium> oh, it's already on frosch' todo list :)
10:43:34 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, for a whole year :)
10:44:06 <Eddi|zuHause> this looks fairly easy at first glance, but there's magic with passenger_capacity and mail_capacity going on that i don't understand
10:44:36 <peter1138> anyone got a copy of doom.wad i can borrow?
10:48:10 <Eddi|zuHause> the only places that need changing are engine.cpp:GetDisplayDefaultCapacity and vehicle.cpp:GetVehicleCapacity
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10:53:27 <peter1138> yeah, i found a doom2.wad download :D
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10:58:06 <roboboy> whats the best way to update a patched copy of the source?
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11:00:05 <Eddi|zuHause> git is fairly powerful in that way, i believe
11:07:24 <Eddi|zuHause> *mental note* don't write this-index when you mean this->index
11:07:54 <Eddi|zuHause> causes fairly cryptic error messages ;)
11:17:10 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka, Rubidium, peter1138, anybody: does this look proper to you? www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/cb36_aircraft_capacity.patch
11:17:51 <Eddi|zuHause> (compiled, but untested)
11:18:43 <Rubidium> that fails as a proper URI
11:19:43 <Eddi|zuHause> well, that might be true, but most browsers tend to add http:// automatically ;)
11:20:01 <TrueBrain> it fails as proper httpd (no inline view)
11:20:42 <Eddi|zuHause> that i do not have an influence on :p
11:20:54 <Noldo> isn't that a matter of right mime-type
11:21:23 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: the first line I look at I see a coding style error :o
11:21:30 <TrueBrain> (missing space after a , :p
11:22:27 <Eddi|zuHause> but if i fix that, i also need to fix alignment in surrounding lines, and that adds clutter to the diff...
11:22:46 <TrueBrain> GetVehicleProperty(v, PROP_AIRCRAFT_MAIL_CAPACITY,e->u.air.mail_capacity);
11:22:49 <TrueBrain> it simply misses 1 space
11:23:12 <TrueBrain> alignment is lost already
11:24:00 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, give me two minutes to fix ;)
11:24:07 <TrueBrain> IT IS A SHOW STOPPER! :p
11:25:28 <Eddi|zuHause> should be fixed (reload)
11:25:45 <TrueBrain> can't reload, as it is not inline :p MWHAHAHA :P
11:25:50 * TrueBrain hugs Eddi|zuHause :)
11:26:20 <TrueBrain> yeah for coding style! :)
11:26:22 <Eddi|zuHause> then set up your browser correctly :p
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11:41:37 <TrueBrain> I hate crappy music on the radio
11:41:41 <TrueBrain> I want a 'skip-to-next' on it
11:43:49 <Eddi|zuHause> i know that problem!
11:44:05 <SirSquidness> It happens to me all the time when I'm watching TV shows.
11:46:29 <Pikka> you know, I'm not sure I've ever seen a definitive answer on this problem from the devs... it's come up several times and is caused by loading too many grfs/sprites...
11:46:50 <peter1138> there is, in theory, no sprite limit
11:47:08 <peter1138> there is, but it's unfeasibly high
11:47:25 <Pikka> how high is unfeasably high?
11:47:34 <Eddi|zuHause> people will hit the file limit before hitting the sprite limit
11:48:02 <Pikka> so what causes the error?
11:51:10 <peter1138> i think it's 2^24 actually
11:52:23 <peter1138> as for the problem, no idea, i don't think anyone's ever reported it
11:58:31 <Pikka> peter1138: because it's only encountered by idiots who try to load every single grf they possibly can?
11:59:27 <Pikka> there have been half a dozen threads about it at various times, and it doesn't seem to be caused by any particular grf...
12:01:00 <peter1138> that's not reported though
12:01:48 <Pikka> peter1138: because people who try to load every grf can't file proper bug reports, and no-one else cares enough to? *shrugs* :)
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12:28:20 <Eddi|zuHause> so. Pikka, did you find the above patch helpful?
12:29:13 <planetmaker> oh hey, a Pikka ! :-)
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12:34:36 <Eddi|zuHause> is that an answer?
12:36:07 <Pikka> well... yes, thankyou. :) but the question is whether it can make it into 1.0.0, and people will stop asking me why their aircraft capacity changes on refit... ;)
12:36:58 <Eddi|zuHause> well, Higher Powers (tm) have to decide that ;)
12:37:37 * Pikka glares accusingly and pleadingly at Rubidium
12:38:17 <Eddi|zuHause> but i have to rely on your word that it actually does what it should do
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13:54:55 <Priski> btw does anyone know any wordchecker when deciding new name fro app/game/etc you don't accidentally pick some word that might mean something embarassing in some foreign country
13:56:44 <Zuu> Eh, any word could have an embarassing meaning in another language. There are too many languages to care about that.
13:58:10 <Priski> well lets just count out the million african dialects :)
14:03:22 <Priski> maybe ill just pick 'project name' and rename when it's ready to be published
14:05:04 <Eddi|zuHause> they had this british theatre play with the harry potter guy, and it had a horse named "Trojan" in it, which was fine in britain, but when they wanted to show it in the USA, they had to change the name :p
14:06:02 <Eddi|zuHause> (apparently, "Trojan" is a brand of condoms in the USA)
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14:08:04 <Eddi|zuHause> so... the "embarrasing name" doesn't even work in english-english...
14:08:27 <Priski> I wouldn't consider that a embarassing
14:09:27 <Eddi|zuHause> when "everyone starts giggling when hearing the name" does not run under "embarrasing", then i don't know...
14:09:35 <Priski> that would suggest trademark issue
14:09:43 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r19191 /trunk/ (6 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: move AirportTileSpec to newgrf_airporttiles.h
14:10:20 <Priski> Eddi|zuHause: trojan was then almost same to condoms in US what google is to search engines?
14:10:26 <Priski> then I would understand
14:11:01 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i'm an outsider, but that's how i understood the issue...
14:12:42 <Belugas> mister Priski, i salute ya
14:12:55 <Priski> didn't pepsi just changed their name en spain?
14:13:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't heard that...
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14:13:34 <Eddi|zuHause> although coca cola is the dominating brand in europe anyway
14:14:08 <Priski> "Recognizing that its name is hard to pronounce in some countries, Pepsi is going by the name Pecsi in Argentina and Pesi in Spain. Ads show Spanish soccer star Fernando Torres unable to pronounce "Pepsi" while making a commercial and finally ripping the letter "p" from a Pepsi sign and telling the director the pronunciation is "Pesi" in his neighborhood."
14:15:49 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r19192 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_airporttiles.cpp newgrf_airporttiles.h): -Fix (r19191): forgot to svn add the new file
14:15:56 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, some languages have trouble pronouncing multiple consonants... that's similar to asian people unable to distinguish l and r
14:15:57 <Priski> it's great that coca cola still has the "coca" in it despite brands history :)
14:16:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r19193 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: increase the maximum number of airport tiles to 256 and introduce AirportTileOverrideManager
14:16:31 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r19194 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Feature: action 0/1/2/3 support for newgrf airporttiles
14:16:53 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r19195 /trunk/src/ (7 files): -Codechange: actually draw newgrf airport tiles
14:17:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r19196 /trunk/src/ (station_cmd.cpp table/airporttiles.h): -Codechange: change the airport tile animation info so it works just like for industry tiles
14:17:09 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r19197 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: introduce animation callbacks for airport tiles
14:17:12 <Priski> I guess best way is to make it simple as possible, like no consonants next to each other etc
14:17:20 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r19198 /trunk/src/ (12 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: store the size of stations in savegames
14:17:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r19199 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: add a 'name'-property to airport tiles
14:17:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r19200 /trunk/docs/ (landscape.html landscape_grid.html): -Doc: update the map array documentation
14:17:44 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r19201 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_airporttiles.cpp station_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: airport tiles now have 4 random bits per tile.
14:20:30 <planetmaker> NewGRF airports :-)
14:20:39 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: wrong
14:20:45 <Eddi|zuHause> NewGRF airporttiles
14:21:02 <planetmaker> I wasn't done reading yet ;-)
14:21:59 * roboboy needs a new power suply for his old p2 machine
14:22:28 <Priski> we live here in the GMT timezone
14:22:58 <Priski> thats, err, around americas?
14:24:17 <Priski> must be hard when everything is upside down and inside out there :>
14:25:28 * roboboy goes on an upside down and inside out rampage
14:25:34 <Priski> southern hemisphere would be nice now, it just snows and snows here :(
14:25:34 <Eddi|zuHause> Priski: not if you are born there...
14:25:56 <Eddi|zuHause> thought experiment: assume you have a drug that switches the perception of red and green in your eyes
14:26:08 <Eddi|zuHause> if you give that drug to an adult, he'll be very confused
14:26:34 <Eddi|zuHause> but if you give that drug to a toddler, that child will learn "red is the colour of blood, and green is the colour of grass"
14:26:42 <Eddi|zuHause> and just go with that
14:26:51 <Eddi|zuHause> it'll never know that it ever got switched
14:26:53 <Priski> but Eddi|zuHause I know what you mean, that was just lame ass joke :)
14:26:57 <SirSquidness> 01:21:59 * roboboy needs a new power suply for his old p2 machine <-- it would be cheaper to replace the entire PC than to just replace the power supply... almost
14:27:29 <roboboy> I can get a low powered PS for $30 AUD
14:27:46 <SirSquidness> If it's a P2, it's likely to be an old AT PSU?
14:27:51 <SirSquidness> I haven't seen them around the shops for a while
14:28:22 <roboboy> I think its a Micro ATX
14:29:52 <Eddi|zuHause> AT boards have a single row of power supply pins, ATX have a double row
14:37:45 <Priski> only intresting thing about winter olympics is hockey and cannot even watch that since ridicilous times they play it
14:38:27 <Eddi|zuHause> that's what they have invented recording for...
14:38:32 <Priski> why earth would just be flat
14:38:55 <Priski> Eddi|zuHause: well its hard not get the score before you can watch it
14:39:23 <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't seen any (ice-)hockey scores in years...
14:39:30 <Priski> and fin vs swe, they could made so that it would be played around midnight here but nooo....
14:40:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r19202 /trunk/bin/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Fix (r19181): some translations were wrong
15:06:31 <Priski> oh those russian truck drivers
15:09:27 <Priski> there is given warning about slippery road, then comes russian with big lorry drunk as hell and drives wrong side of road with big lorry
15:10:39 <Priski> on a wide busy 4 lane in middle of day
15:12:09 <SmatZ> why do you think he was drunk?
15:12:55 <Priski> because police took the test and in it showed 0.245%
15:13:26 <Priski> I cant even walk straight when I get that drunk...
15:13:43 <SmatZ> obviously you don't have to walk when you are driving
15:14:42 <Priski> 4 cars had to steer into ditch to safety but no big accidents
15:16:16 <Priski> When I was yougn and could not get boose legally sometimes we went to russian truck drivers to buy some vodka
15:17:53 <Priski> you just walk up to them and ask for vodka, 1/3 of drivers would sell it, and almost half the price than legally
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16:02:49 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r19203 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_airporttiles.cpp water_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: silence some gcc warnings
16:03:41 <Priski> don't speak deutchlanddialect but that I figured
16:04:02 <Eddi|zuHause> when i read "to silence" i always get an image of a gun and a pillow...
16:05:58 <Eddi|zuHause> Priski: well, the main gist is that the Lufthansa pilots are on strike, so in this parody, "Luft" [=air] has been replaced by "Boden" [=ground]
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16:07:37 <Eddi|zuHause> Priski: the other stuff plays on bad service, requiring patience and "Going by train is also fun" :p
16:08:05 <Priski> in finland national rail company has been kinda like that for a while, because of snow
16:08:43 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r19204 /trunk/src/table/airporttiles.h: -Fix (r1919x): airport tiles without animation had an incomplete contructor
16:09:13 <Priski> CEO just said that publicly "don't ride trains" couple days ago
16:09:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r19205 /trunk/ (10 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: move AirportSpec to newgrf_airport.h/cpp
16:10:25 <Priski> it's pretty ridicilous since everything else seems to work, it is said to be only company in finland that winter comes by suprise every year
16:11:36 <Priski> seems like transport is jammed everywhere in EU in some form nowadays
16:13:09 <Priski> my brother works at maintaining rail tracks, he said he's been gone to work 5-6am to work and comes back at 8pm to sleep at home every night for while now
16:14:19 <Priski> said only thing he does at home is come to sleep and leave for work in morning
16:16:45 <Priski> that just gave me an idea, summer/winter mod for OTTD? :D
16:17:08 <Eddi|zuHause> already implemented, GRFs can modify snow line depending on date
16:17:53 <Eddi|zuHause> and industries can change production depending on above/below snow line
16:18:14 <Priski> do GRFs can modify maintenance cost dynamically also?
16:18:29 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure about that
16:18:29 <Priski> I know that they can modify some base values
16:19:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i think i have seen varation depending on running/waiting in station, not sure which other variables are available
16:19:33 <Priski> I use one that increases cost of terrain modifying so much that it does actually make sense to use bridges and make detours
16:20:19 <Priski> makes game much more fun that way IMO
16:20:43 <Priski> otherwise it's way too easy on most of the maps
16:24:35 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19206 /trunk/ (6 files in 2 dirs): -Add: concept of fallback base sets, i.e. do not automatically load the NoMusic/NoSound sets when there is another set
16:24:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r19207 /trunk/src/misc/str.hpp: -Fix (r19127): compilation was broken for gcc 3.3
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16:33:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r19208 /trunk/src/newgrf_airporttiles.cpp: -Codechange: fix a gcc warning
16:38:41 <Priski> "he tried to slide in on both occasions"
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17:59:13 <Priski> hmm quess I have to learn yet another new language; LINQ :P
18:00:06 <u1> I kinda wish i could contribute to the project
18:00:12 <u1> dont have any porgramingskills
18:00:35 <u1> ive spent sooo many hours with ottd
18:00:53 <Priski> well anyone can surely do that
18:02:09 <Rubidium> the part about the configuration settings; what everything means, what the implications are etc.
18:02:35 <U1> well ill see what I can do
18:02:49 <U1> ill look in to it Rubidium
18:03:32 <Priski> new pics from game since it now has OpenGFX? or does 1.0 eventually have OpenGFX as default grephics set?
18:04:05 <U1> theres an option for it in the installation if i remember correctly
18:04:15 <U1> atleast with the win installer
18:05:31 <Priski> didn't jump to 1.0.0 meant that finally OTTD is complete standalone, without need of external grfx from old TTD
18:05:56 <U1> if you go with the ogfx sure
18:06:36 <U1> i still prefer the old one tho :P
18:07:07 <U1> makes me remember the good old days when the game was new
18:08:26 <Priski> I didn't like OGFX at first but now I like it, it has more 'cleaner' look
18:15:13 <SpComb^> I'm considering sticking to principles and never playing OpenGFX :P
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18:41:51 <aber> What build system is used to create the makefiles? Gnu Build System, autoconf? I have some trouble to track the files down...
18:42:26 <Yexo> for openttd? a custom configure file
18:46:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r19209 /trunk/src/lang/ (16 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
18:46:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:46:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 2 changes by josesun
18:46:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 6 changes by habell
18:46:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: finnish - 1 changes by jpx_
18:46:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: french - 2 changes by glx
18:46:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: german - 1 changes by planetmaker
18:51:06 <aber> "custom"? This is done the hard way and handmade? That would explain the comments inside this files...
18:52:21 <Rubidium> aber: yes, autoconf is annoying
18:52:43 <Rubidium> and slow, horribly slow :(
18:54:18 <planetmaker> aber, ever heart of the --help option ;-)
18:54:59 <aber> There is something from with loading libraries in OS X
18:55:02 <planetmaker> ./configure --help
18:55:18 <planetmaker> it's a universal configure file
18:55:19 <aber> There is something wrong with loading libraries in OS X
18:55:49 <planetmaker> *something* cannot be fixed nor explained
18:56:13 <Rubidium> planetmaker: it's already fixed; it's unsupported thus no guarantees it works
18:56:50 <dihedral> Rubidium, i have a mac i don't use, you can come and pick it up if you like :-D
18:57:29 <frosch123> does it include some spirit?
18:58:45 <glx> [19:54:05] <aber> Ever heard from cmake? <-- yes worse than autoconf for me
18:59:47 <Rubidium> dihedral: to do WHAT with it?
19:00:03 <Rubidium> I guess beagling is a something I would do with it
19:03:39 <Yexo> planetmaker: I know you created the ttdpatch wiki pages for newgrf railtypes, can you help me creating them for newgrf airporttiles too? (feature 11)
19:03:57 <Yexo> addnig the content is no problem, but I'm not sure how to add new pages
19:04:32 <planetmaker> Yexo, I cannot add new pages, too. It needs DaleStan to add them.
19:05:02 <dihedral> Rubidium, one of your replies to a thread emphasizes the fact that you do not yourself have a mac to fix the bugs and test etc. :-P
19:05:02 <planetmaker> Looking at it... it's pretty similar to IndustryTiles?
19:05:12 <planetmaker> Except action0 and VarAction2AirportTiles I guess
19:05:33 <Yexo> normal action 2 is the same
19:05:40 <Yexo> so yes, only action 0 and varaction 2
19:05:42 <Rubidium> dihedral: many others that I can't be bothered to become the OS X maintainer
19:06:30 <planetmaker> Yexo, should the same be requested for Airports at the same time?
19:06:40 <Yexo> there are alraedy pages for airports
19:06:49 <planetmaker> And why is no one of the OpenTTD devs a newgrf wiki admin :S
19:07:21 <Yexo> oh, there aren't actually
19:07:25 <planetmaker> Well. Actually: we can create the pages. We cannot add them to the TOC
19:07:26 <Yexo> so yes, that might be a good idea
19:07:48 <planetmaker> It just needs a link (or URL-editing) to start a new page
19:09:00 <planetmaker> I'll start with action0
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19:22:49 <planetmaker> Yexo, concerning the callback flags and animation triggers: what is already decided there wrt their values (actions 0E and 11)?
19:23:08 <sparr> there is a feature request open for better competing station rating / cargo distribution. i am submitting a patch to fix a bug in the current calculation. should i file a new bug (instead of feature request), or add it to the feature request?
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19:36:05 <dihedral> since when is darkvater back in the forums? :-P
19:36:32 <Rubidium> since 22-02-2010 20:03:17 ?
19:41:13 <Yexo> I'll check it later, there is something wrong :(
19:41:25 <Yexo> Please note that callback 153 doesn't have a bit here. To use callback 153, simply set the wanted bits in property 11 and it will work as intended. <- under the callback flags
19:41:35 <Yexo> but the table lists bit 0 as bit for cb 153
19:42:43 <Yexo> Animation triggers via callback 153 (11) <- that should be 152
19:42:58 <Yexo> so also "callback 152 doesn't have a bit here..."
19:43:25 <Yexo> that wasn't documented at all in my forum post
19:43:47 <planetmaker> it wasn't. But I failed at translating the callbacks ;-)
19:45:14 <frosch123> planetmaker: never write "unused", always "reserved" :)
19:45:28 <planetmaker> ok, I'll change that then in this go, too ;-)
19:46:24 <PeterT> Do you think they're not going to see it unless you spam it in here? :-P
19:46:46 <sparr> PeterT: probably not, but that's me being jaded over bug handling
19:48:28 <Yexo> bug handling is easy: chose one of: * bug->feature request and forget about it, * close as "works as intended", * blame mac osx
19:49:01 <sparr> PeterT: also, my thought is that most people aware of the issue think it's a long term feature request, not realizing there's a small bug in the code that is exacerbating the deficiencies in the intended algorithm
19:49:26 <Yexo> or they are aware of the issue and think it works as it should
19:49:41 <planetmaker> Yexo, the callbacks still need implementation, right?
19:50:12 <planetmaker> hm... "callbacks for animation"... maybe there ;-)
19:50:14 <Yexo> planetmaker: no, they're already implemented (except the "callback xx")
19:50:19 <sparr> that is, some people think 100%/99% rating causing a 66%/33% split is unfair. arguing against that is hard, and causes feature request level bugs. but there is a bug that causes the split to be 66%/16%, which makes the problem appear bigger than it really is
19:51:15 <sparr> i happen to agree on that first part, but it's outside the scope of getting the bug fixed
19:54:38 <Hirundo> Or 'they' prefer a patch that adheres to the coding style
19:58:44 <sparr> I'm not familiar with openttd's specific style. For such a small change it seems trivial to fix if you point it out to me.
19:59:17 <frosch123> or they consider it normal that if you are constantly spammed by the advertisements of two companies, you decide for none
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20:08:24 <sparr> frosch123: you assume some level of advertising with no advertising campaign?
20:09:11 <sparr> Hirundo: the problem is ">>" vs " >> "?
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20:10:01 <planetmaker> hmpf. Newgrf wiki gong gaga
20:11:07 <frosch123> planetmaker: go to the forum and suggest to port it to mediawiki :)
20:11:25 <planetmaker> Nah, I like my head where it is now
20:23:29 <sparr> Yexo: I think there's a difference in "players disagree with the design" and "the implementation differs from the design"
20:24:55 <Yexo> sparr: I completely agree
20:25:21 <Yexo> however I doubt you can show any design that says the cargo distribution to stations should behave in another way then it does now
20:26:16 <sparr> the comments seem, to my reasonably practiced eye, to indicate that the penalty is meant to be applied to the split of available cargo between the two stations
20:26:29 <sparr> it being applied again later looks like an oversight on the part of the responsible coder
20:28:06 <sparr> i admit they aren't entirely clear
20:28:10 <Yexo> the code has been like this since r1 (in this svn repo), so I'm wondering how plain ttd handles this case
20:28:26 <Yexo> if ttd handles this the same, then the comments are in no way a reference to the design
20:28:39 <sparr> an interesting question. is anyone here able and willing to test in ttd?
20:30:24 <sparr> it should be easy to test. build two stations with the same <100% rating and consistent service, see if the % transferred for the industry matches the ratings to within 2%, or differs by 5-10%
20:30:58 <Yexo> openttd 0.1.4 (earliest source I could find) already works this way
20:31:33 <sparr> i would expect it's been this way since the code was first written
20:31:54 * sparr *acquires* a copy of TTD to test
20:32:23 * SmatZ is happy sparr does that instead of him ;)
20:32:44 <PeterT> I've been looking for you
20:32:52 <sparr> so much for not needing to get TTD now that opengfx is ready :)
20:33:13 <PeterT> Do you have a copy of the DoCommand log patch used at #openttdcoop available for me to use?
20:33:24 <PeterT> if so, I would be most grateful
20:33:56 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19214 /trunk/bin/ (8 files in 2 dirs):
20:33:56 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Add: NoSound, just like NoMusic; makes installation easier
20:33:56 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update: translation of NoSound and other sets
20:36:32 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r19215 /trunk/src/ (order_base.h order_cmd.cpp order_gui.cpp): -Codechange: Add Order::GetLocation() to deduplicate code.
20:42:47 <sparr> waiting for my test station ratings to stabilize
20:42:55 <sparr> i had forgotten how much UI improvement ottd has over ttd
20:43:56 <sparr> two stations stable at 80%, waiting one month for the industry % transported to catch up
20:45:44 <sparr> in openttd 80%:80% ratings results in goods split 66%:33% and goods actually moved as 52%:13% (total 65%)
20:46:03 <sparr> in ttd the total moved is 79%, which is within rounding error of 80%, imo
20:49:02 <sparr> doublechecking in openttd to make sure my math is right
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20:53:57 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r19216 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt vehicle_gui.cpp): -Feature: Scroll to current order destination when ctrl+clicking the start/stop bar.
20:54:08 <sparr> in openttd i see 82%:82% ratings resulting in 71% transported
20:54:17 <sparr> so i THINK openttd behavior differs from ttd behavior here
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20:55:25 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r19217 /trunk/src/lang/english.txt: -Codechange: Unify punctuation marks.
21:01:56 * planetmaker Ctrl+clicks on frosch123 's start/stop bar
21:02:56 <planetmaker> hm... no scroll, no quak... outside OpenTTD :-P
21:03:41 <sparr> with ratings 63%:55%, the distribution of moved goods seems to be about 5:1, which disagrees with openttd and any other algorithm i can think of
21:03:58 <frosch123> maybe next order is nearest depot
21:04:19 <PeterT> Thanks frosch123, that's a neat feature
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21:04:49 <frosch123> if someone asks whether it will be backported to 1.0, i will revert it :p
21:05:22 <sparr> backported to a version that's not released yet? was 1.0 forked already?
21:06:04 <frosch123> rc's are from branches in ottd context
21:06:11 <PeterT> svn.openttd.org/branches/1.0
21:21:36 <aber> Should i append this to the bug tracker?
21:25:48 <sparr> Yexo: so, differening from TTD is a significant factor?
21:27:04 <Yexo> <sparr> with ratings 63%:55%, the distribution of moved goods seems to be about 5:1, which disagrees with openttd and any other algorithm i can think of <- how does openttd behave with 63%:55% ratings?
21:27:41 <Yexo> sparr: no, but if openttd behaves the same as ttd then it the comments would be wrong and it'd behave "as designed", at least for this code
21:27:58 <sparr> hmm, perhaps i was unclear
21:28:01 <sparr> there are two issues here
21:28:41 <sparr> first, how the available goods are split between the stations. that may or may not be fair, and may or may not match ttd. that is a more debate-worthy topic and much harder to test
21:29:14 <sparr> second is how many goods are wasted by each station after the split happens. this is the area i am investigating, and where i see the probably-bug in the openttd code and the difference in ttd and openttd behavior
21:31:02 <sparr> this being my first openttd patch, i opt to limit the scope to the easier problem :)
21:31:37 <sparr> this bug, if it is a bug, skews discussion of the first issue by making the current distribution method appear to be less fair than it was meant to be
21:32:10 <frosch123> so, try to locate the code in the ttd executible
21:33:24 <sparr> that is far beyond my skills
21:34:07 <sparr> if such was done to create the openttd code (ignoring the copyright implications), the possible origin of the bug is more clear
21:34:12 <sparr> a simple variable transposition
21:34:50 <sparr> frosch123: you realize that looking at the executable for ttd taints future contributions to openttd?
21:35:56 <ccfreak2k> Have someone look for you.
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21:36:06 <ccfreak2k> Someone not intent on making patches.
21:38:37 <frosch123> fine, then i will continue looking at ttdp, to improve compatibility
21:38:37 <sparr> that doesn't really help
21:39:14 <sparr> the folks over in #winehq on freenode can give you a more thorough briefing on the problems with having people look at the original binaries
21:39:48 <Yexo> you do realize that in case of openttd that doesn't matter much?
21:46:32 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r19218 /trunk/src/ (engine.cpp newgrf.cpp newgrf_properties.h vehicle.cpp): -Feature: [NewGRF] Add CB36 support for aircraft properties 0F and 11. (Eddi)
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22:30:58 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, of course i missed him...
22:40:34 <sparr> some forumgoers seem unhappy at posting in old threads
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23:11:37 <Eddi|zuHause> # Und Gott sprach zu der Menge:
23:11:44 <Eddi|zuHause> # IHR SEID SO LEISE
23:14:52 <OwenS> Sun.com is now a redirect to Oracle.com
23:18:03 *** [com]buster has joined #openttd
23:19:05 <OwenS> The unfortunate side effect of the redirect is I will never be able to find information there again
23:19:13 <OwenS> Because Oracle's site organization is terrible
23:19:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't remember ever being to either of these sites, except for downloading java
23:20:16 <OwenS> I work on some BerkelyDB based code
23:20:21 <OwenS> Navigating Oracle's site is a nightmare
23:22:49 <OwenS> On the other hand, I'm glad the acquisition went ahead before all the regulatory burden killed Sun completely
23:28:11 <Eddi|zuHause> not even my freezer has that...
23:28:46 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
23:29:23 <Eddi|zuHause> # Chicks were born to give ya fever
23:29:24 <Eddi|zuHause> # Be it fahrenheit or centigrade
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