IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-02-21
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00:30:51 *** Bluelight has joined #openttd
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00:37:52 <Bluelight> How do I reset company?
00:38:03 <Bluelight> rcon pass reset_company 2?
00:38:26 <Eoin> seen as i dont know, ill use the infamous line
00:38:58 <PeterT> Bluelight: rcon <password> "reset_company <company-number>"
00:40:38 <Rubidium> "Have you tried turning it off and on again?"
00:41:12 <Bluelight> Well I tried that, but got an how to use command message..
00:41:20 <Eoin> in my microsoft certification
00:41:24 <Bluelight> And the company will not be reset..
00:41:28 <Eoin> one of the questions was bloody stupid
00:41:47 <Eoin> one of the answers for fixing a hardware problem was Switch it on and off 6 times rapidly
00:42:59 <Rubidium> Bluelight: have you read the "how to use" message? It actually gives a hint to what might be wrong
00:50:29 <Bluelight> The password is correct.. Why do I get this message instead of a kick..?
00:51:09 <Rubidium> type rcon (or help rcon)
00:51:12 <PeterT> I can't see, do you have quotation marks?
00:51:13 <Xaroth> rcon <password> "kick 3"
00:51:29 <Xaroth> the game thinks you just sent the command "kick" to rcon
00:53:52 <Bluelight> It worked.. THanks.. :)
00:54:12 <PeterT> glad you were able to kick that poor fellow
00:55:23 <PeterT> where is the output of the "script" command?
00:55:33 <PeterT> is it in the local (install) dir or the shared dir?
01:01:56 <PeterT> Zuu: Hi there, is the latest version of your filter sign list patch available at the FS task, or at the tt-f topic?
01:03:11 <Eddi|zuHause> and the damn forum did it again...
01:04:07 <PeterT> I have a feeling it will do it again tommorow
01:09:19 <Eddi|zuHause> that is the question, yes.
01:10:02 <Eddi|zuHause> the first comment says "print and fold"
01:11:47 * PeterT wonders how he long it took him to find that out
01:11:53 <Eddi|zuHause> very interesting... the post actually got through, but the forum bavckup intercepted the reloading of the page to view it...
01:13:18 <PeterT> you mean the "view your submitted message"?
01:14:34 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that is done automatically like 5 seconds after the post
01:26:59 *** Gargami is now known as Gar`zzz
01:32:37 <Eddi|zuHause> so, have you found the fifth pig yet? :p
01:32:53 <PeterT> I stopped looking when you said print and fold
01:34:10 <Eddi|zuHause> aww... spoil sport...
01:34:17 <Eddi|zuHause> well then, look at the rest of the comments ;)
01:36:07 <PeterT> The only thing I can understand without a translator is "arschloch"
01:36:32 <Eddi|zuHause> you won't need a translator for the solution ;)
01:36:51 <PeterT> "kein bock just post the result you asshole"
01:38:39 <Eddi|zuHause> you missed the important one :p
01:39:00 <glx> folding in my head, it seems to be a face
01:39:28 <PeterT> Right, I didn't look after the porn advert, I assumed it was the end of the page
01:39:43 <Eddi|zuHause> glx: yeah, that's how far i got before looking at the solution
01:40:14 <glx> and I think I recognised which one
01:42:38 <thingwath> The final one. (Sorry.)
01:44:43 <Eddi|zuHause> ... that's a bad joke...
01:45:24 <thingwath> It's almost 3 at morning. What would you expect…
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01:50:48 <Zuu> PeterT: The last version should be at FS, but check the dates if you are in doubt. Also all files should contain the version info.
01:51:12 <PeterT> Zuu: got it and patched latest trunk
01:52:10 <Zuu> I still need to make the match-button use a static variable so its state is remembered when you close and then re-open the window.
01:52:27 <Zuu> I think there is a list in one of the later FS-comments on what is left to do.
01:55:23 <Zuu> The static var should be quite easy for me to do now that I got the staticness done in my ai break on string-patch.
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09:20:58 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19181 /trunk/bin/ (7 files in 2 dirs):
09:20:58 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Change: rework the order of the data in the base graphics metadata files.
09:20:58 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Add: translations for Czech, German, Finnish and Spanish to the base graphics metadata files.
09:21:47 * roboboy doesm't expect his patched build to build
09:24:38 <roboboy> oo it seems to have compiled
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09:28:48 * roboboy waits for his build to start
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09:49:29 * roboboy wonders how often timetables are used
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10:04:19 <kd5pbo> Terkhen: Good morning.
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10:18:51 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v Belugas
10:18:51 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v DorpsGek
10:19:58 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: TrueBrain
10:20:09 <TrueBrain> who is a good doggy .. who is a good doggy! YES ! YES!
10:27:05 <Rubidium> or is it an dyslexic dog?
10:27:51 <Muxy> and does he knows a lot of people ?
10:28:24 <Rubidium> oh... the mean and median for the title game vote is almost the same :)
10:28:41 <Rubidium> so the votes must be pretty evenly distributed
10:28:45 <TrueBrain> but shouldn't you have the top? :p
10:31:59 <Rubidium> yeah, the top 3 (or maybe 4) will go to the next round
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11:12:12 *** Yexo is now known as Guest5
11:30:10 <kd5pbo> What's the point of @whoami?
11:30:34 <Zuu> To see if DorpsGek know who you are?
11:30:38 <DorpsGek> Zuu: I don't recognize you.
11:31:01 <kd5pbo> Not to tell you who you are, then?
11:31:02 <Zuu> So I can't do op commands which people who are recognized can.
11:31:15 <Zuu> (at least that I think is what it is for)
11:31:34 <Muxy> Zuu: and to do Ops commands, then you need to have Op capability also
11:32:44 <Muxy> kd5pbo: you can have more information with googling supybot
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13:32:26 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r19182 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Use CommandCost return value in CheckIfIndustryIsAllowed() and CheckIfFarEnoughFromIndustry().
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14:17:22 <PeterT> with the changes in trunk, will commands like "!name" be unavailable?
14:17:40 <PeterT> or do the changes in trunk only disallow things like CityBuilder?
14:22:05 <Eddi|zuHause> do you have a specific change in mind?
14:22:53 <PeterT> I believe it was some kind of "CompanyCheck"
14:22:58 <PeterT> let me look at the flyspray
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14:57:40 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r19183 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Return CommandCost from FindTownForIndustry().
15:14:40 <PeterT> what would go after the equals sign in a ban?
15:17:07 <Eddi|zuHause> why would there need to go anything?
15:17:47 <PeterT> Why is there an equals sign?
15:19:24 <Eddi|zuHause> that's what you get for using a standard format...
15:26:18 * PeterT should learn to use rm -Rfv
15:27:23 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r19184 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Return succeeded/failed command from CheckIfIndustryTilesAreFree().
15:34:22 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: hey, people received mails like that, billing them for downloads they made with that IP ;)
15:58:03 <andythenorth> anything interesting happening?
16:01:12 <PeterT> even though it's only 11:00Am
16:01:38 <Alberth> PeterT: you are in the wrong time zone.
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16:32:46 <Alberth> trying a few different jobs ?
16:33:32 <Eddi|zuHause> making planets all day long might get boring after a while...
16:35:06 <planetmaker> server issues :-)
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16:44:16 <ashb> wow. thats quite some train
16:57:20 <PeterT> Is there any reason that a file might fail to be deleted?
16:57:35 <PeterT> "<PeterT> !rcon rm test.sav
16:57:35 <PeterT> <Server> PeterT: test.sav: Failed to delete file"
16:57:52 <ashb> no perms, or the file is open on windows, or it doesn't actualyl exist
17:01:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r19185 /trunk/src/ (industry_cmd.cpp newgrf_industries.cpp newgrf_industries.h): -Codechange: Return succeeded or failed CommandCost from CheckIfCallBackAllowsCreation().
17:02:40 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r19186 /trunk/src/terraform_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Remove use of _error_message from CmdLevelLand().
17:04:19 <Ammler> PeterT: might not be possible with rcon
17:05:06 <PeterT> <Jolteon> the openttd user has no permission to delete anything.
17:05:50 <Alberth> simply save a more useful game over it
17:06:04 <Ammler> doesn't work here either
17:07:07 <Ammler> no rcon issue, !rcon of ap does access the console directly
17:09:47 * andythenorth awards himself a cup of tea
17:10:02 *** Muxy is now known as Guest48
17:10:31 <Ammler> rm looks like obsolete/deprecated
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17:11:50 <Ammler> PeterT: if you have write access, you usually also are able to remove those things
17:11:56 <Ammler> else it is quite a silly setup
17:13:26 <Ammler> PeterT: write a custom command to delete files
17:13:46 <Zuu> A cup of tea sounds like a good idea.I have only had one cup today. (usually I'll have 3-5 cups of coffe/tea / day)
17:15:01 <Ammler> you still don't know what a custom command in AP+ is?
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17:31:02 <PeterT> Why is strgen compiled for macosx when mac builds have been canceled?
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17:52:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r19187 /trunk/src/autoreplace_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#3634]: the vehicle info in the autoreplace gui was drawn even when the window was shaded
18:41:10 <PeterT> is there a way to move all ungrouped vehicles to a group?
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18:45:45 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r19188 /trunk/src/lang/ (8 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
18:45:45 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:45 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: arabic_egypt - 1 changes by kasakg
18:45:45 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: catalan - 1 changes by arnau
18:45:45 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: esperanto - 59 changes by Ailanto
18:45:46 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: hungarian - 8 changes by IPG
18:45:46 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: luxembourgish - 2 changes by Phreeze
18:47:53 <DJNekkid> i've found yet another "bug" with the new railtypes
18:49:21 <DJNekkid> discribed in the new railtype thread in the dev section on the tt-forums
18:51:28 <ccfreak2k> I had a dream that I mentioned something about DOS graphics in here.
18:51:34 <ccfreak2k> And you guys kept kicking me out.
18:51:46 <ccfreak2k> Linking to the FAQ/wiki/whatever.
18:51:51 <ccfreak2k> I think it was Eddi|zuHause.
18:53:05 *** _Muddy is now known as Muddy
18:53:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i kicked you in your dreams?
18:53:20 <Eddi|zuHause> man, i don't want to know about that stuff...
18:53:54 <DJNekkid> ehm, nevermind that that comment from me...
18:54:25 <ccfreak2k> It is impossible to unknow.
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19:06:44 <Frankr> Does anybody here know the use of the CB36 Cost property, for a newgrf?
19:07:20 <DaleStan> What are you doing now?
19:07:57 <DaleStan> And what unexpected behaviour are you seeing?
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19:08:02 <Frankr> well i want to see whether i can attribute this cost property to a specific sprite
19:08:38 <Frankr> i was wondering what it was used for
19:08:51 <Frankr> or if it just doesn't have a use
19:09:37 <Yexo> the cost is only used when the vehicle is bought, so why would you want to change it later?
19:09:40 <DaleStan> You can't attribute a property to a sprite. In NFO, you can't attribute anything to anything, in fact.
19:09:51 <Yexo> in other words, what does it have to do with a specific sprite?
19:10:14 <DaleStan> But even if you'd used the correct verb: You can't set a property for a sprite.
19:10:20 <Frankr> well we want to put in a kind of landing fee charge for aircraft
19:10:38 <Yexo> you can't do that with a newgrf
19:10:43 <DaleStan> Then CB 36 is not your friend.
19:11:42 <Frankr> Is there no point in the Cost property then?
19:11:53 <DaleStan> It has a point, that's just not it.
19:11:59 <Yexo> of course there is, it's the price you have to pay for the vehicle to buy it
19:12:01 <DJNekkid> it can change over years for example
19:12:19 <Frankr> ah that would make sense
19:12:27 <DJNekkid> or it can change during "exclusive testing"
19:12:30 <DaleStan> Just because it doesn't do what you want (or what you think it does) doesn't mean it doesn't do anything.
19:12:36 <Frankr> i know Yexo i just wondered why you would have a cb for it
19:12:40 <DaleStan> There are very few things in NFO that have no point.
19:12:45 <Yexo> what you could do it give a plane a very high running cost while landing
19:13:17 <Frankr> that is an area i have looked into
19:13:25 <Frankr> but it would get a bit stupid
19:14:43 <Frankr> say for example people have the plane speed rightly so on 1/1 then the landing will be one tick, if we want the fee to be £30k then we are at 12mill
19:15:11 <Frankr> thanks anyway guys for your help
19:16:48 <DJNekkid> word size running costs would be nice :P
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19:19:59 <ccfreak2k> Has anyone come up with a patch to allow competetor vehicles to stop at your stations for a fee per vehicle?
19:20:24 <Yexo> it's called infrastructure sharing
19:20:34 *** Matthew is now known as Guest60
19:20:44 *** Guest60 is now known as Nekomaster
19:21:11 <Nekomaster> hmm, but IsS doesn't allow you to connect your networks to competitors
19:21:42 <Yexo> then you must've forgot to enable the settings or so
19:21:52 <Nekomaster> I was playing on a ISS server
19:21:58 <Nekomaster> with the most recet ISS version
19:22:23 <planetmaker> The ISS is controlled from Houston, Texas.
19:22:49 <Nekomaster> International Space station now has email
19:22:52 <lennard> heh, openttd on the internation space station
19:23:07 <Nekomaster> i bet someone already has
19:23:16 <lennard> also, gprs sucks when typing over ssh :P
19:23:35 <Nekomaster> they have computers
19:23:36 <lennard> they get to look down on the world irl
19:23:37 <planetmaker> Time and resources cost way more than you probably think
19:23:53 <planetmaker> Nekomaster: yes, I DO know.
19:24:01 <Nekomaster> Are you on the ISS?
19:24:12 <Hirundo> Yes, his planet factory is there
19:24:17 <planetmaker> And I know that is a problem to get a simple uplink to the ISS for WORK purposes
19:24:26 <ccfreak2k> They finally have e-mail up there?
19:24:38 <Nekomaster> there was a thing on google news a few weeks back
19:25:13 <Nekomaster> before they'ed have to get the guys on the ground to deal with email for them
19:25:36 <PeterT> ccfreak2k: It's called IS, and we have a server at #jonty, and #openttdcoop.dev
19:25:40 <PeterT> ccfreak2k: Working !dl commands, too
19:25:51 <ccfreak2k> I don't know what !dl is.
19:25:56 *** PeterT was kicked by DorpsGek (Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.)
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19:26:36 <PeterT> ccfreak2k: Just join either #jonty, or #openttdcoop.dev, then type "!download" to get IS binaries
19:26:41 <PeterT> then you can join the server
19:29:31 <Nekomaster> why was peter just booted?
19:29:47 <Yexo> Nekomaster: how hard is it to read the kick message?
19:31:55 <Nekomaster> So, anyone here that has free time that can code a small, 2 train grf?
19:32:08 <Nekomaster> well, 2 loco and 2 Passenger cars
19:32:29 <DaleStan> I'll direct you to my price list, posted somewhere on the forums.
19:33:12 <Nekomaster> I don't know how many times i've told people, but I can't code any programing language, its just too much for me, I can sprite, but not code
19:33:41 <Nekomaster> and its only a simple set, just to update my QR Tilt Train Set
19:34:57 <andythenorth> Nekomaster: that wasn't a "meh" at you
19:35:13 <andythenorth> it was 'meh' at underground suggested yet again.
19:35:48 <Nekomaster> thats why we need to try and do street running railways, it'll be some work but it'll probably be easier to do
19:36:19 <Nekomaster> Street running rails eliminates the need for underground view
19:36:50 <Nekomaster> but for running railways in cities it helps
19:37:47 <andythenorth> Nekomaster: that one's not going to happen :)
19:37:57 <andythenorth> I know it would be cool, but it's too hard
19:38:07 <Yexo> <Nekomaster> thats why we need to try and do street running railways, it'll be some work but it'll probably be easier to do <- it won't be any easier
19:38:09 <Nekomaster> hasn't alot of other things?
19:38:15 <andythenorth> road vehicles don't really have much in the way of the collision detection code
19:38:23 <Yexo> there is not enough room in the map array for that, so it'll be as hard as underground railways
19:38:51 <Nekomaster> 1 lest realistic thing to think about
19:39:02 <andythenorth> it would be way too easy to deadlock a whole city / rail system because the code for street running can't move vehicles out of the way
19:39:11 <andythenorth> but....I think I've just 'solved' underground
19:39:17 <andythenorth> I need RoadTypes though
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19:39:31 <andythenorth> hmmm....who was working on that
19:40:06 <Nekomaster> yeah, I think there was a peter on it
19:40:13 <andythenorth> All underground needs is a road type. The trains can be invisible, the tracks are invisible, all that's needed are stairway entrances to the subway
19:40:36 <andythenorth> there will be some interesting side effects on other RVs though
19:40:54 <Nekomaster> but then wouldn't we have to make the roads have diagonals too"?
19:41:15 <andythenorth> it would basically just be invisible trams. Which could be 'underground'
19:41:15 <Nekomaster> since a one tile turn is unrealistic even for subways
19:43:21 <Nekomaster> those are unrealistic prices
19:44:20 <PeterT> don't mention realism in front of Belugas!
19:44:51 <PeterT> also, $30 is hardly unreasonable for doing work that no one wants
19:44:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't see why these prices would be unrealistic
19:45:08 <Nekomaster> oh, well I only saw like over 100 per hour
19:45:21 <andythenorth> what's wrong with that?
19:45:32 <Eddi|zuHause> really, i don't see that being unrealistic
19:45:34 <andythenorth> that's reasonable for coding
19:45:53 <Nekomaster> no programmer for something this small would get paid that much per hour
19:46:02 <Nekomaster> maybe 50 USD per hour
19:46:16 <Eddi|zuHause> you go at this from the wrong side
19:46:17 <Nekomaster> but 100-200, thats unrealistic
19:46:37 <Eddi|zuHause> the price for doing work is not only the wage that comes out at the other end
19:47:26 <Eddi|zuHause> besides, the hourly rate is not really what counts... what counts is the amount of previous knowledge that goes into the work
19:48:03 <Eddi|zuHause> also, a mentor of mine once said: "the price is not based on the work that it takes, but on what the client is willing to pay for"
19:48:59 <Eddi|zuHause> so you overcharge clients for the "easy" features, while you spend actual work on the strategic core
19:49:05 <planetmaker> of course. If only the amount of actual work would count, every person would get the same per hour.
19:49:26 <planetmaker> But edudation and personal value for the client paying is what make the prices
19:50:26 <planetmaker> but I like this line from the posting: "Locate the existing implementation: USD 150 per hour, three hour minimum."
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19:51:25 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: that's what i said, the "easy" (meaing "boring") things are heavily overcharged for
19:52:27 <Eddi|zuHause> so you get room for making the "interesting" (but less lucrative/less easy to sell) stuff
19:53:09 <planetmaker> :-) yeah. That's how it works. Makes interesting work to actually work out such work offers.
19:53:34 <planetmaker> How much can I actually charge for A without it being "unrealistic" and so on.
19:53:39 <Yexo> DaleStan: are you already working on nforenum support for newgrf railtypes (or do you know that someone else is already working on it)?
19:54:37 <jordi> catcodec is now in Debian
19:59:13 <Eddi|zuHause> so, how do i decode what my cat says?
19:59:55 <Eddi|zuHause> wait... that's what the program does, right?
20:00:52 <Nekomaster> Is there any program that converts a regular wave into one that matchs the bit rate, bit depth, and freq. of the waves in the original sample.cat?
20:01:26 * Alberth was thinking about categories of TeX
20:01:27 <Nekomaster> Is it catcodec? or a differnt program?
20:01:40 <Eddi|zuHause> Nekomaster: yes.
20:02:08 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, it's catcodec or a different program...
20:02:20 <Nekomaster> nice, very helpful :|
20:02:24 <Eddi|zuHause> why do people have so big problems with simple logic?!?
20:02:43 <Nekomaster> Why do people have problems awnsering simple questions?
20:03:28 <DaleStan> We don't. We answer the question you asked. Why do people have problems asking the question they want answered?
20:03:48 <Nekomaster> Why do people have to be an ass about it?
20:03:50 <DaleStan> Yexo: I'm essentially not working on it now, as I'm pretty sure adding feature 10 support will hide the crash DJ found. I'm also not aware of anyone else working on it.
20:04:27 <Yexo> adding feature 10 support will give the same crash with feature 11
20:04:42 <Yexo> I was able to reproduce that crash before
20:06:04 <Frankr> or petert he has left actually
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20:09:08 <Nekomaster> You know I really hate lmgtfy
20:09:38 <Nekomaster> its not like you could just say "Catcodec will covert sounds"
20:10:27 <Yexo> its not like you could search yourself before asking
20:11:33 <Nekomaster> *sigh* here we go again, simple question, simple awnsers, how hard is that? Q "What can convert sound to sample.cat format?" A " Catcodec"
20:11:43 <Nekomaster> Is something like that so hard?
20:12:04 <Yexo> yes, as I have no idea what catcoded can do exactly
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20:14:05 <Nekomaster> I did once make a newsfx pack but it contained material that i did not own nor could I get explicit permission from the author of the sounds
20:14:34 <DaleStan> <Yexo> yes, as I have no idea what catcoded can do exactly <Nekomaster> Nor do I<-- Which is why you ask someone who knows. i.e. Not us.
20:14:59 <DaleStan> The person who wrote TFM and TFReadme is a good guess.
20:15:00 <Nekomaster> Then who does, DaleStan ?
20:15:15 <DaleStan> We don't know that either. Ask someone who does.
20:15:16 <DaleStan> The person who wrote TFM and TFReadme is a good guess.
20:15:49 <Nekomaster> Rubidium appers to be the author of the readme
20:17:41 <Nekomaster> Anyways, so im guessing no one has free time that can code or doesn't feel like doing a bit of work for maybe 10-20 minutes for a grf
20:18:33 <PeterT> <DaleStan> Which is why you ask someone who knows. i.e. Not us. <-- Eg Google
20:19:21 <PeterT> I can't say this from experience, but I think coding a GRF takes more than 20 minutes
20:19:22 <Nekomaster> Google wont help, Uh, google, wheres someone that can code nfo for someone who can't do it (google) uh..... idk...
20:19:40 <Nekomaster> thats probably for larger sets
20:19:46 <Frankr> Neko have you even tried
20:20:07 <Nekomaster> its too much for me, I got a headache trying to understand newgrf nfo coding
20:20:17 <Nekomaster> the numbers dont make sense to me
20:20:43 <DaleStan> How long did you spend on getting the realsprites right? That alone takes about a minute each.
20:20:50 <PeterT> That is why you read all of the wiki, and not just some of it
20:20:51 <Nekomaster> Anyways, all the QR TT set is right now is 1 DMU, and 1 EMU, plus their corrisponding passenger cars
20:21:21 <Nekomaster> So, in total 4 Vehicles
20:21:23 <DaleStan> So, 32 sprites minimum, meaning approximately 32 minutes just for the real sprites.
20:21:35 <Nekomaster> theres only 4 sprites for the pax cars
20:21:44 <Nekomaster> and what do you mean for real sprites?
20:21:52 <Nekomaster> I already drew up the sprites
20:21:54 <andythenorth> or there's grfmaker
20:22:09 <DaleStan> The lines in the NFO what aint pseudosprites.
20:22:17 <Nekomaster> Doesn't work for me, it keeps complaining about "Range Check" errors
20:22:51 <DaleStan> Ah. Blessed silence.
20:23:06 <PeterT> DaleStan: You broke it
20:23:18 <Nekomaster> and you made it worse petert
20:23:29 <peter1138> why is ssh not working? D:
20:23:44 <DaleStan> OK then. Blessed not-listening-to-a-certain-idiot-blather.
20:24:00 <DaleStan> /ignore is my friend.
20:24:19 <Eddi|zuHause> people do occasionally find that helpful, indeed ;)
20:24:31 <Eddi|zuHause> unfortunately, the forum's ignore function is useless...
20:25:31 <DaleStan> It is indeed less useful than it could be.
20:25:32 <peter1138> DaleStan, oddly enough, it looks like you were having a conversation with yourself...
20:26:11 <DaleStan> I do that occasionally.
20:26:28 <Eddi|zuHause> nothing to see here... move along...
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20:26:42 <DaleStan> ... I mean ... um ...
20:26:52 <Nekomaster> Uh.... crap.... Nothing to see here folks.....
20:27:53 <Eddi|zuHause> DaleStan: you need to watch what your alter egos write :p
20:27:55 <peter1138> oh, how i love thee, giant jacket potato
20:27:59 <peter1138> 2 hours to cook, 5 minutes to eat
20:29:16 <peter1138> not particularly environmentally friendly, hehe
20:30:00 <andythenorth> anyone object to new cargo class LMBR for Lumber? Due to some disagreements with ECS...
20:30:07 <andythenorth> I'll get on with it then
20:30:26 <planetmaker> actually... does there exist means to convert mp3 or ogg into midi?
20:30:41 <andythenorth> Nekomaster as well you shouldn't, given that you don't (yet) code vehicle grfs (but you might!)
20:31:03 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: why a new one?
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20:31:17 <andythenorth> George doesn't want us using WDPR for lumber
20:31:24 <Nekomaster> Well, i agree with coding it that way, only though , as long as lumber doesnt end up in the wrong place
20:31:31 <andythenorth> I think I know why
20:31:43 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: and what does PBI use?
20:31:45 <Nekomaster> well, then again, maybe after 1980 lumber could end up in hoppers
20:31:57 <andythenorth> I'm guessing WDPR can also be sawdust, wood chips etc which are bulk. In FIRS, lumber is not bulk
20:32:20 <andythenorth> George - think so...it was a long time ago, we haven't made the change to FIRS yet
20:32:24 <andythenorth> maybe not though :o
20:32:29 <George> I have nothing against WDPR for lumber as long as the cargo class is the same
20:33:06 <andythenorth> Well FIRS devs want WDPR to be piece goods only, which is different to ECS definition, so I guess we use a new label :)
20:33:07 <Nekomaster> IRL wood gets carried to the saw mill on flat cars, wether its traditional or pulp wood, then it can be cut and the saw dust\wood chips can be sent to a paper mill
20:33:23 <George> andythenorth: In that case - yes
20:33:31 <andythenorth> George: agreed :)
20:33:43 <DaleStan> planetmaker: Not easily. MIDI is "play this note on this instrument for this long"; MP3/OGG is "send this voltage to the speakers at this time".
20:34:28 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: problem with inventing a new label is always vehicle set support
20:34:54 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: only for those silly sets which ignore cargo classes
20:35:02 <Eddi|zuHause> is it really that problematic when saw mill products get thrown into bulk wagons?
20:35:16 <George> Eddi|zuHause: Using new label is amaller problem than different classes for one label
20:35:17 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: but you can't decide the graphics only based on cargo class
20:35:20 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r19189 /trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: CheckTrackCombination() returns a CommandCost.
20:35:27 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: do you transport 2x4s in a hopper?
20:35:32 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: the problem is the xor-ness of a certain refitmask
20:36:02 <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: get a room...
20:36:10 <frosch123> someone got a friend
20:36:10 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I'm just trying to fix bugs :|
20:36:15 <Nekomaster> Also, do you think that a factory can turn chips into SOLID wood for quality furniture, though they could turn it into partical\chip board
20:36:24 <andythenorth> how do I ignore Nekomaster for a bit?
20:36:51 <planetmaker> DaleStan: yeah, I know. That's my / the problem
20:36:51 <Eddi|zuHause> /ignore Nekomaster
20:37:23 <andythenorth> ok (sorry Nekomaster, you're noisy )
20:37:31 <Nekomaster> Am I really that annoying that every one has to be hostile to me?
20:38:26 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: really, when i weigh the pros and cons of introducing a new cargo label, the cons win
20:38:35 <andythenorth> I would rather not either
20:39:01 <andythenorth> I think we'll just make FIRS consistent with ECS
20:39:08 <andythenorth> and see what happens
20:40:41 * planetmaker also prefers to rather re-use existing cargo labels than introducing new ones.
20:41:12 <frosch123> except there is nothing worse than using different classes for the same label
20:41:26 <andythenorth> frosch123: that also sucks
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20:41:59 <Eddi|zuHause> if i were to decide, i would just live with the cargo being carried in the "wrong" wagons...
20:42:15 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: that's nice for you, you don't get the bug reports :P
20:43:20 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it's not any different as when someone carries "Food (Milk)" in tank wagons from a fish processing plant...
20:44:00 <frosch123> or fruit in self-discharging hoppers
20:44:01 <andythenorth> they are clearly carrying....hmm...actually you're right :)
20:44:09 <DJNekkid> peter1138: (or any others) suggestion on Rail Types: if Action0 property 10 is set, then use the "standard" catenary build menu items as well (unless new ones are provided)
20:44:49 <Nekomaster> Well I prefer Wood being on flat beds or gondolas and lumber\wood products being on flatbeds, centerbeams, hoppers or gondolas.
20:46:05 * andythenorth adjusts WDPR in FIRS: sky doesn't fall in
20:46:05 <Nekomaster> Hmm, does paper pulp ever get transported as a cargo?
20:47:08 <planetmaker> [21:41] <frosch123> except there is nothing worse than using different classes for the same label <-- that's, of course, assumed with "re-using existing cargo labels"
20:47:37 <planetmaker> otherwise it doesn't make sense and has similarily weired effects as ISR's re-order or station sprites. Which I still swear at.
20:48:55 <Yexo> DaleStan: I need this patch to be able to compile nforenum on cygwin
20:48:57 * andythenorth does define FRVG as a new label. Sky doesn't fall in
20:49:11 <Yexo> g++ --version returns: g++ (GCC) 4.3.4 20090804 (release) 1
20:50:00 <Yexo> but with this patch it does link to cygwin1.dll
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20:55:42 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r19190 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt rail_cmd.cpp): -Add: Improve error message with track building when signals are in the way.
20:56:45 <PeterT> nooo why did you add that?
20:56:54 <Nekomaster> I think that "Impossible track combination" was good enough
20:57:23 <peter1138> DJNekkid, hmm, maybe... dunno... post it in the thread
21:02:44 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... the 2.0 thread is useless... people are only short sighted as in "include XYZ patch", nothing remotely visionary
21:02:52 <Eddi|zuHause> except maybe the underground bit
21:03:21 <PeterT> It is really just a smaller version of the OpenTTD Suggestions forum
21:05:24 * planetmaker agrees with Eddi|zuHause
21:05:46 * andythenorth has been thinking of something for 2.0
21:05:59 <Nekomaster> what, are people already asking for a 2.0?
21:06:32 <PeterT> planning goals for 2.0
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21:09:44 <frosch123> it was waiting for a test grf :p
21:11:49 <planetmaker> he... what should the grf look like, frosch123 ?
21:12:25 <frosch123> no idea, i would have to read the topic myself again
21:13:38 <andythenorth> I am reading it and trying to understand, but my brain is fried. I learn about bits, and I forget about bits.
21:13:39 <planetmaker> as I read it, any vehicle newgrf *could* serve which deals with some cargos explicitly
21:14:25 <planetmaker> but... difficult with all those (a and not b) xor c
21:14:34 <planetmaker> thrown on top of a cargo translation table
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21:16:27 <frosch123> planetmaker: actually i would expect a testgrf to use the callback
21:16:46 <frosch123> (though 14E is likely already used nowadays)
21:18:18 <andythenorth> I could have a go at that some time, but not in the next few weeks
21:18:24 * andythenorth is likely to forget
21:19:44 <planetmaker> he... I didn't notice that there was a test implementation and a callback involved. Must be in another than the linked posting ;-)
21:20:26 <frosch123> so you read how it is for years?
21:20:44 <Zuu> Buying a train ticket is like a lottery. Shall you buy a too early ticket and hope that the train will be late or buy one which is at the time you want to departure? :-p
21:22:40 <Zuu> Shall you buy a high-speed train ticket and hope that that track is less delayed than the track for the slow-trains? etc. :-)
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21:25:10 <gr00vy> i need some help with a mainline i built
21:25:18 <gr00vy> 2 rails for each direction
21:25:30 <gr00vy> but only one rail is preferred
21:25:42 <gr00vy> the 2nd is nearly never used
21:26:05 <gr00vy> any connection to the mainline is built so trains can choose which track to use
21:26:40 <Zuu> Perhaps they have different pentalty to the pathfinder?
21:27:19 <Zuu> The one not used probably have higher penalty than the other even if there is many red signals on the used one.
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21:43:44 <Zuu> turns, hills, (red) signals, stations
21:44:00 <Zuu> backside of path-signals.
21:44:29 <Zuu> Even straight track gives a small penalty.
21:45:01 <Zuu> So that a shorter track will give lower penalty if everything else is the same.
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