IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-02-16
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00:02:06 <planetmaker> Rubidium: any idea how the cache causes the desync?
00:02:31 <planetmaker> I understand _what_ the commit says, but I don't understand why it fails
00:05:59 <planetmaker> let's hope that I didn't just have luck right now
00:06:12 <planetmaker> after all people still play on our unpatched server
00:07:28 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19143 /trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: trunk's going for 1.1 now.
00:09:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19144 /branches/1.0/src/train_cmd.cpp: [1.0] -Fix [FS#3569]: under certain circumstances one could crash a competitor's train
00:17:10 <Eddi|zuHause> why fix that only for 1.0 and not for 1.1?
00:19:42 <planetmaker> you want something to do also in the future ;-)
00:23:36 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: 1.1 will have better solution
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00:55:33 <SpComb^> the FS# links are broken in trac
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02:02:58 <ezracooper> Is it possible to use road vehicles with ECS cargo? If so, what NewGRF do I need?
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08:08:55 <gr00vy> is there any easy way to do a conversion of electrified rail to maglev
08:09:02 <gr00vy> including trains and depots?
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09:03:03 <kd5pbo> gr00vy: Use the upgrade tool.
09:09:06 <SirSquidness> kd5pbo: that will only upgrade the track/stations
09:09:13 <SirSquidness> that wont auto-upgrade vehicles
09:09:20 <SirSquidness> or depots with vehicles in them
09:09:49 <kd5pbo> Though, it will upgrade empty depots.
09:09:59 <kd5pbo> My trick is to collect as many trains as I can into one depot.
09:10:19 <SirSquidness> and then manually clone them in to the depot next to the one they'rei n
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10:40:01 <TrueBrain> stupid winter olympics blabla swapswap ... no BigBang on TV :(
10:42:36 <Noldo> the show with sheldon, penny and the other guy?
10:47:40 <Eddi|zuHause> "The Theorists" ;)
10:49:20 <Eddi|zuHause> (in case you haven't heard, in Belarus they made a show with remarkable similarity to TBBT (similar names, similar intro, similar stories), but did not pay for a license)
10:50:32 <Noldo> they are showing a russian version of the Nanny named Fran here
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10:52:47 <Eddi|zuHause> well, it's fairly common that successful shows from other markets are altered for a localised adaption. but that usually involves buying the appropriate licenses
10:53:53 <Eddi|zuHause> although it's more common in germany to just buy the show itself and translate it into german
10:55:39 <Eddi|zuHause> there are only a few adaptions that i know... for example "the office" was adapted as "Stromberg"... adaptions are usually from non-american tv markets
10:55:59 <Uresu> Didn't the Germans remake "The Office", call it "Das Job" (or somethign) and pretend it wasn't a clonoe of The Office?
10:56:23 <Uresu> And ended up admitting it when Gervais & Merchant came a-calling.
10:57:13 <Eddi|zuHause> Uresu: do you have a source for that story?
10:57:52 <Uresu> I remember then saying it on one of the recent Office documentaries on BBC called "A Night At the Office" (I think)
11:03:18 <Eddi|zuHause> " I can't go into details but yes there was an agreement reached and we are very happy with it. I must say I was very surprised when I saw the new unauthorised version. It's not like the Germans to just march in and take something that isn't theirs." <-- haha :p
11:04:30 <Uresu> You know, no Englishman (seriously) thinks that.
11:06:54 <Eddi|zuHause> we germans do (occasionally) understand irony ;)
11:13:50 <Eddi|zuHause> "Weitere autorisierte Adaptionen der britischen Serie entstanden in den USA (The Office), Frankreich (Le Bureau), Quebec (La Job), Russland, Chile und Israel."
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11:30:26 <fonsinchen> So Stallman is encouraging the use of DeCSS which is not clearly free software, tststs ...
11:32:57 <fonsinchen> he could change that for libdvdcss, though. And then there'd be no reason for him to not use it either. Stallman is sort of crazy.
11:33:51 <kd5pbo> nicoleisthebestgirlfriend
11:34:03 <kd5pbo> Well, that's rather embarrassing.
11:34:09 <kd5pbo> Time to change my password.
11:34:28 <Noldo> you have the same all over don't you?
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11:35:22 <kd5pbo> __ln__: Nah, thought my screensaver would ask for it.
11:35:32 <kd5pbo> I should have switched on my monitor first.
11:36:10 <kd5pbo> There's some sort of bug in gscreensaver or whatever it is I have installed.
11:37:10 <kd5pbo> Every so often I wondered if a password like that would be broken less quickly than a bunch of random numbers and letters and symbols.
11:37:48 <Eddi|zuHause> alone for the length, that's a really unlikely-to-be-broken password...
11:38:01 <kd5pbo> Easy to remember and really long.
11:38:29 <Uresu> Typically a dictionary attack would be tried first and all the words in your password are "dictionary" words (from a password cracking perspective anyway)
11:38:56 <kd5pbo> Uresu: Yeah, but it'd require the concatenation of five words.
11:39:08 <kd5pbo> Well, three plus is and the.
11:39:46 <kd5pbo> At what point do you give up on a dictionary attack and start with random characters?
11:39:48 <SmatZ> you can type it backwards :)
11:39:51 <Uresu> It's a good question, my gut says it would still be cracked quicker, but it would be an interesting project for a uni student.
11:40:08 <SmatZ> like, dneirflrigtsebehtsielocin
11:40:17 <kd5pbo> SmatZ: Then I have to remember that.
11:40:24 <SmatZ> you get used to that :)
11:40:34 <kd5pbo> Or, I change passwords all together.
11:41:34 <KenjiE20> SmatZ has a secret weapon for that :)
11:42:06 <SmatZ> I don't remember having any weapons
11:42:21 <KenjiE20> then what's that you just hid?
11:42:43 <KenjiE20> kd5pbo: try www.keepass.info
11:44:39 <kd5pbo> I just remember them all.
11:45:09 <kd5pbo> Why does only one menu item have a tooltip?
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12:14:13 <roboboy> what time GMT are nightlies built?
12:14:40 <gr00vy> thx @ SirSquidness and kd5pbo|Zzz
12:15:25 <TrueBrain> roboboy: 20:00 CE(S)T
12:15:44 <TrueBrain> in 6 hours and 45 minutes
12:15:59 <Rubidium> roboboy: TZ="CET-1CEST,M3.5.0,M10.5.0/3" 20:00
12:17:57 <Eddi|zuHause> whatever it is, it's in 7 hours
12:26:03 <Eddi|zuHause> how the hell did that guy get a "160MB image" when compiling openttd?
12:27:34 <Rubidium> fat library, uncompressed, debug build
12:27:47 <Rubidium> s/fat library/universal binary/
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12:28:29 <Rubidium> one debug binary is 52 MiB for me, universal adds 3 giving 156 MiB
12:29:26 <Timmaexx> I have a suggestion! Would it be possible to add opntitle.dat to bananas?
12:29:28 <Timmaexx> So you can choose multiple backgrounds?
12:29:38 <Rubidium> then add 6 MB for languages and title game, et voila 162 MiB
12:29:52 <Rubidium> would be possible, rather do not do it
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12:30:42 <Rubidium> cause you quickly end with: which of the 30 to take?
12:31:21 <Rubidium> and: here's mine, with AIs and NewGRFs
12:31:23 <roboboy> OpenTTD should be able to load the original TTD title.dat but it can not
12:31:23 <Timmaexx> wELL I DONT HAVE TO DOWNLOAD THEM ALL...
12:31:33 <Rubidium> and: here's mine, it's 8 MiB
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12:32:41 <Eddi|zuHause> roboboy: it might be necessary to convert the game first, as the file extension is relevant to the way the game is loaded
12:32:58 <Rubidium> roboboy: technically it probably can, but as Eddi said... the extension is relevant
12:33:50 <Rubidium> Timmaexx: it's not what YOU do, but what the unknowing does... like trying to load all 100+ NewGRFs into a single game
12:33:58 <Rubidium> or uploading cargodist savegames
12:34:05 <roboboy> I know that as TTD's title.dat is just a sv0 renamed to .dat
12:34:58 <Rubidium> roboboy: with .sv0 it assumes it a TTD savegame, with .dat/.sav it assumes it's an OpenTTD savegame
12:35:44 <Rubidium> now given that someone 'borked' the savegame format long ago, it's not that easy to detect TTD vs old OTTD savegames
12:35:54 <roboboy> and Assumes is the key word
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12:37:43 <Rubidium> well, show me an ingenious way that assures that it won't misdetect and I'll look at it
12:41:28 <Rubidium> and... in the beginning of OpenTTD savegames there was no "header", so missing the header doesn't mean it's a TTD savegame
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13:42:13 <roboboy> are there any major differences in compiling OpenTTD unders MSVC++2008 Professional than Express
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13:43:48 <Eddi|zuHause> there shouldn't be... but with microsoft, you never know...
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14:02:23 <glx> Pro supports 64bit out of the box
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14:03:32 <glx> (express supports 64bit too, but it requires user intervention to set it up)
14:08:59 <roboboy> Does the OpenTTD project have config details for 64bit builds?
14:10:42 <glx> projects are ready for 32 and 64
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14:29:10 <nicfer> I have a multiple ottd setup under windows xp and want to know if there's a way to share the grf files between them, having each one an own cfg file
14:29:55 <glx> put grfs in mydocs/openttd/data, and a config in each ottd dir
14:31:59 <Ammler> was there ever a FR to be able to have a generic cfg, which then can be overruled by a kind of local cfg?
14:35:48 <nicfer> (to glx) I can't do that because the cfg file in each installation makes the game for ignore mydoc
14:36:41 <glx> it still searches for grf there
14:40:18 <Eddi|zuHause> but it will download online content into the individual data dirs...
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14:48:16 <Rubidium> roboboy: where's the source for the binary you posted on the forum? It's definitely not a stock version if desyncs are disabled. Anyhow, WHY did you disable desyncs?
14:50:07 <roboboy> can I just post a link to the diff I used?
14:50:15 <Belugas> desyncs are boring, they stop the fun of the game. it's an evil thing done by devs
14:51:38 <roboboy> is that sufficient for GPL?
14:52:20 <roboboy> providing a link to the diff?
14:53:15 <Rubidium> technically probably not, but it's common practice and it's at least a million times better than no source and for seeing what you changed it's also better than providing the full source
14:54:02 <Rubidium> nevertheless, it doesn't make much sense to disable desyncs
15:00:18 <Rubidium> roboboy: #openttdcoop is running that?
15:02:43 <Rubidium> have they hit a new all-time-low in doing stupid things?
15:02:58 <roboboy> the bundle/build will not be needed after the next nightly comes out
15:03:20 <Rubidium> yeah, but now half will desync and the other half won't
15:04:04 <Rubidium> then at least call it r19068M or so
15:04:15 <Rubidium> makes the 'suckers' with the wrong binary fail to connect
15:04:40 <Rubidium> but no, we're going to use an incompatible version and give it the same version number...
15:04:47 <roboboy> so rename the bundle but not recompile the binary?
15:05:52 <Rubidium> according to http://www.openttd.org/en/server/105 they're running an unmodified version, if that's not the case it should say r19068M as version number... not claim it's unmodified. That's just incredibly stupid
15:08:26 <roboboy> theyve hacked findversion.sh which is definately stupid
15:08:59 <planetmaker> :S Someone provided a IMO BAD diff which supposed was meant to "work around" the desync. Why ever.
15:09:19 <planetmaker> I don't know what the binary has we currently run.
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15:21:29 <Ammler> roboboy: might be better you remove the binary there.
15:22:01 <Ammler> Rubidium: we run a patched server for quite a long time already.
15:22:34 <Ammler> since dih run his autonightly
15:22:53 <Rubidium> Ammler: and in it you're modifying how the @#$%@#$%@#$ pathfinder works?
15:24:07 <Ammler> someone had the idea, that backport the fix might work, also for unpatched clients.
15:24:10 <Rubidium> if you change it so the server dumps a bit more information to the console... that's fine, but modifying the game engine's logic, that's bad... very bad
15:25:08 *** Rubidium sets mode: +b someone!*@*
15:25:16 <Ammler> yeah, it seems also very lagging now
15:25:27 <Ammler> dunno, if that is caused by the backport :-)
15:25:33 <roboboy> I will remove the patch when I get up in the morning
15:25:38 <Markk> welshdragon: Is your name Mark MacDowelle?
15:26:18 <Rubidium> Ammler: might be... the pathfinder caching is disabled when going to a multi-tile waypoint
15:26:44 <Ammler> Rubidium: so it will also lag after we use again a regular nightly?
15:27:13 <Rubidium> unless you come up with a better fix
15:27:29 <Markk> My first nick was MarkMc. :)
15:27:47 <Ammler> what is the diff to a "via station"?
15:28:06 <Rubidium> stations are safe waiting points
15:28:34 <Ammler> we have already too many trains to change the orders, else we could try it :-)
15:33:16 <Belugas> we have lost our dns server
15:33:55 <Belugas> anyone can verify what is the exact definition of CVV2, regarding credit card number? would be nice
15:36:09 <Belugas> our dns service does not work, SirSquidness. But thanks for the effort
15:36:21 <Belugas> IP addresses work, not "named" IP
15:37:42 <SirSquidness> I thought you meant OpenTTDs DNS server was down or something
15:37:55 <SirSquidness> It's the extra number on most credit cards
15:38:00 <SirSquidness> that you enter as a 'security measure'
15:38:30 <SirSquidness> The Card Security Code (CSC), sometimes called Card Verification Value (CVV or CV2), Card Verification Value Code (CVVC), Card Verification Code (CVC), Verification Code (V-Code or V Code), or Card Code Verification (CCV)[1] is a security feature for credit or debit card transactions, giving increased protection against credit card fraud.
15:38:47 <Ammler> SirSquidness: pm it :-)
15:38:48 <SirSquidness> If you need an alternate DNS server, 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4
15:39:05 <Eddi|zuHause> Belugas: use an external nameserver? like 4.2.2.1 or 208.67.222.222
15:50:01 <Belugas> thanks SirSquidness, that's perfect
15:50:38 <Belugas> Eddi|zuHause, i'll try something like that. dunno if it would fit our "corporate" network...
15:52:06 <SirSquidness> surely if you're on a corporate network, your IT admins would have redundant DNS servers?
15:52:25 <SirSquidness> 'cos.. you know... not having a DNS server sort of prevents a lot of stuff happening, especially if you're on an Activedirectory network...
15:54:11 <Belugas> works, Eddi|zuHause. milles fois merci!
15:56:56 <Eddi|zuHause> as long as you don't start to kiss me...
15:57:27 * dihedral has a powerbook he does not use anymore....
15:59:12 <Belugas> our IT admin???? buwhahahahah!!!!!
16:00:09 <dihedral> SirSquidness, you gotta be joking
16:00:35 <dihedral> some admins dont even have a secondary domain controller
16:01:02 <dihedral> well... windows admins :-P
16:01:47 <dihedral> but if you are surprised by that, ask if their server has some sort of RAID configured :-P
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16:05:50 * jonty-comp doesn't have a secondary domain controller, or a redundant DNS, or RAID on his workplace's server
16:06:17 <jonty-comp> but then I don't even know why we have a domain in the first place, Small Business Server is completely useless
16:06:52 <jonty-comp> if it wasn't already there when I started working there, I'd have got a nice linux server for serving files, and e-mails
16:08:09 <SirSquidness> dihedral: sorry, I like to live in an imaginary world where everyone does things the smart way, not the cheap way
16:09:37 <dihedral> i am the only linux admin at work, and i get the cache to setup stuff my way :-)
16:10:48 <SirSquidness> how many windows admins do you have to argue with?
16:14:57 <SirSquidness> lol, that makes more sense
16:18:47 <dihedral> who wants a 75 eur voucher for google adwords?
16:19:05 <dihedral> (after the 28th it's only 50 eur)
16:19:11 <SirSquidness> donate it to openttd!
16:19:34 <dihedral> TrueBrain, Rubidium?
16:19:45 <dihedral> feel like having a 75 eur google adwords voucher?
16:20:29 <TrueBrain> those are only valid after you pay Google 50 euro to activate it
16:22:19 <dihedral> nope, you need to pay 5 eur exc. vat
16:22:25 <dihedral> and it only works with new accounts
16:22:33 <dihedral> (new = younger than 14 days)
16:23:19 <TrueBrain> then you think you get things for free
16:23:22 <TrueBrain> tss, it is Google, of course not
16:24:09 <dihedral> perhaps someone wants it... i know i dont
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16:52:22 <jonty-comp> < dihedral> who wants a 75 eur voucher for google adwords? <-- we have one of those at work!
16:53:54 <jonty-comp> TrueBrain: awesome :D
16:54:05 <jonty-comp> wish cooking was as easy as photoshop :P
16:54:10 <jonty-comp> or perhaps the other way around
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18:45:29 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r19145 /trunk/src/lang/ (french.txt galician.txt slovak.txt):
18:45:29 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: french - 2 changes by glx
18:45:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: galician - 25 changes by Drenghist
18:45:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: lithuanian - 2 changes by
18:45:31 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: slovak - 4 changes by keso53
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19:00:29 <peter1138> heh, people seem to expect nforenum to magically understand new stuff
19:00:59 <Rubidium> peter1138: well, I'd expect it to not crash horribly on 'wrong-to-nforenum' data :)
19:01:17 <peter1138> probably just an assert ;)
19:05:13 <TrueBrain> wow, I feel like Futurama .. skipped 1000 years :p
19:07:08 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: yeah, in 2020 maybe :)
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19:09:11 <TrueBrain> would be cool, to just skip 1.0 :p
19:09:19 <TrueBrain> that would annoy a lot of people
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20:30:12 <kd5pbo> How do I see net_fram_freq's value?
20:30:18 <kd5pbo> I seem to get a lot of errors because of it.
20:32:19 <Alberth> iirc there is a command to display vars in the console. does 'help' say anything useful?
20:33:27 <kd5pbo> list_vars, but that only gives me two vars
20:33:28 <peter1138> 23329 petern 20 0 2198m 1.5g 8616 D 81 77.0 12:11.42 firefox-bin
20:33:55 <Alberth> in only 12 mintues :)
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20:35:01 <kd5pbo> Alberth: Time to switch browsers.
20:36:24 <Alberth> nah, it will hit the process upper limit all by itself
20:38:00 <aber> ahh, thats the point they do not supply 64bit firefox binaries.
20:40:52 <kd5pbo> aber: Do you have a 64bit processor?
20:41:38 <kd5pbo> Why not build a 64-bit version and see if it works better.
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20:44:07 <frosch123> maybe they use lots of [(uint32)-1] to access the previous element in an array
20:44:39 <kd5pbo> frosch123: Can you even do that in C?
20:44:50 <kd5pbo> Wouldn't that just access the memory before the array?
20:45:13 <Alberth> not if you have a pointer pointing to the end
20:45:39 <frosch123> int a[5]; int *b = a + 1; assert(b[-1] == a[0]);
20:46:20 <frosch123> now replace the -1 with an uint, an it will magically work on 32bit
20:46:57 <frosch123> #define assert(cond) {if (!(cond)) burp();}
20:48:14 <Eddi|zuHause> why did that make me burp?
20:48:55 <kd5pbo> aber: Shouldn't matter.
20:50:39 <aber> Eddi is compiled without -ea ?
20:50:59 <Rubidium> rather with -ea (enable asplodes)
21:03:07 * andythenorth deletes a draft forum post
21:03:22 <frosch123> what did you suggest? :)
21:03:41 <Rubidium> full TTDP 2.0 compatability! :)
21:04:28 <frosch123> "you have to post all your personal details to openttd.org to acquire your personal key for ottd, and you have to send all your keystrokes, passwords and data to openttd.org"
21:04:42 <frosch123> oh, wait that was web 2.0, right?
21:05:11 <frosch123> Rubidium: that is not very future proof, what to do in ottd 3.0 ?
21:07:10 <Rubidium> full TTDP 3.0 support ofcourse
21:07:20 <Rubidium> i.e. no 3.0 before TTDP 3.0!
21:07:35 <andythenorth> frosch123: my suggestion for 2.0: "ship working code"
21:07:42 <andythenorth> I know, I know, it's a big ask :)
21:07:52 <frosch123> what is ship working?
21:08:07 <andythenorth> ahem, try reading that again?
21:08:13 <frosch123> oh, "ship" is also a verb, right?
21:08:36 <Eddi|zuHause> kd5pbo: it's either a command or a setting, not a variable
21:08:43 <andythenorth> every other version of OpenTTD appears to work, so I think 2.0 should continue that nice pattern
21:08:50 <andythenorth> working code is a top feature in my view
21:08:53 <Eddi|zuHause> (the net_frame_freq)
21:09:01 <SmatZ> [22:04:08] <pcmattman> I'd have banned yorick if I had his mask
21:09:05 <SmatZ> [22:06:07] *** pcmattman nastavuje režim: +b *!*yorick@*
21:09:07 <frosch123> my suggestion: "make andy support macos port"
21:09:11 * andythenorth may have dry humour
21:09:12 <SmatZ> everyone loves yorick :)
21:09:17 <andythenorth> and no to the mac os port
21:10:14 <andythenorth> so these forums....I just post a suggestion, and then you guys magically implement it right? So I can have anything I like in 2.0?
21:10:49 <SmatZ> andythenorth: yes, that's exactly how it works
21:11:04 <SmatZ> too bad it's too late to have everything implemented in 1.0
21:11:21 <Sionide> as long as you help with bug testing/triaging andythenorth
21:11:44 <andythenorth> in that case, I WANT UNDERGROUND RAILWAYS!
21:11:51 <andythenorth> never mind that you can't bloody see them :o
21:11:59 <SmatZ> andythenorth: whan an original idea!!!!!1111oneoneone
21:12:13 <Rubidium> andythenorth: so how do you know they aren't there, but serviced by another company?
21:12:37 <andythenorth> dunno, why don't we just implement some code that just moves all the cargo around the map automatically? No routes required.
21:12:41 <frosch123> hmm, underground railways... that would need backporting of quite some revisions from 2.0 branch to trunk
21:12:43 <andythenorth> kind of 'underground'
21:13:05 <Eddi|zuHause> teleportation railtype
21:13:12 * andythenorth decides to stop twatting around and go eat
21:13:32 <frosch123> andythenorth: actually heisenberg rail is already part of 1.0
21:13:54 <Sionide> what's all this talk of 1.0 ??
21:13:56 <andythenorth> can we measure a piece of cargo in one place and have it manifest somewhere else
21:15:06 <frosch123> well, when i was young there was always the discussion, how you could turn the game money into real money. since i transport tons of candy and toffee in toyland that changed somewhat
21:15:52 <Sionide> frosch123, branson did it.. I bet he played TTO as a teen.
21:15:58 * andythenorth awards himself today's beer
21:16:55 <Rubidium> Sionide: I bet he didn't
21:17:11 <Rubidium> but then, my math may be broken
21:17:41 <Rubidium> assuming 1950+20 < 1994
21:18:22 <frosch123> anyway, did someone ask branson whether he would brefer 2000 bags of sweets per month?
21:18:53 * andythenorth goes off to model some bulldozers in 3D
21:18:59 * andythenorth gets bored and comes back
21:19:29 <Sionide> frosch123, someone's gotta haul the sweets around..
21:19:47 <frosch123> dihedral: someone registered to post that...
21:24:33 <Alberth> now if only everything looked the same from every direction...
21:24:37 <dihedral> hehe - someone claims all sprites exist in 4 directions already ....
21:25:41 <frosch123> rotation in steps of 90 degree is quite easy if you choose the right axis
21:26:03 <dihedral> rotation in 360 degree steps is even easier :-P
21:26:26 * andythenorth turns his laptop upside down for rotation of 180
21:26:31 <Sionide> a lot of the later tycoon/theme games have 4 point rotation..
21:26:41 * andythenorth hmmm....the podcast skipped
21:26:42 <Rubidium> frosch123: the 't' axis?
21:26:48 <Sionide> is ttdpatch still going??
21:27:24 <Terkhen> why stop at that? go for free view camera
21:27:25 <Rubidium> frosch123: nah, time :)
21:28:12 <Alberth> Rubidium: only in positive direction :)
21:28:46 <dihedral> Terkhen, if you create the amount of sprites RCT had
21:28:57 <Sionide> ohh that'd be good, a rewind time button so you can watch a crash, rewind it and prevent it...??
21:29:06 <Alberth> RCT only had 4 directions
21:29:17 *** devilsadvocate has quit IRC
21:29:28 <Terkhen> but they are already done, right? :P
21:29:52 *** devilsadvocate has joined #openttd
21:29:54 <frosch123> dihedral: every monkey gets a 3d impression from just two pictures
21:29:55 <Alberth> Sionide: we already have that feature, it's called autosave
21:30:21 <andythenorth> Terkhen: I *always* draw many more angles than the game can handle....it's just....so fun :)
21:30:22 <Sionide> Alberth, not quite the same..
21:30:40 <Alberth> Terkhen: yep, they were generated with a renderer, I think
21:30:50 <frosch123> Sionide: you mean a "undo knob" ?
21:31:01 <aber> rendering, we need to implement ray tracing...
21:31:22 *** Combuster has joined #openttd
21:31:23 <andythenorth> can we also implement a first person shooter in the game?
21:31:44 *** fonsinchen has joined #openttd
21:31:44 <Alberth> aber: why, how does that transport cargo?
21:31:56 <Alberth> andythenorth: Doomed OpenTTD
21:32:01 <frosch123> andythenorth: magic bulldozer?
21:32:47 <Alberth> yeah, "Magic bulldozer runaway, causing havoc over the land" news
21:33:05 <Terkhen> I didn't know, I was just kidding :P
21:33:23 <TrueBrain> hmm .. more disasters ....
21:33:27 <Alberth> Terkhen: that's when you get the best insane ideas :p
21:33:32 <Sionide> more work on new industries would be good.. new stuff to transport, post 1.0 release..
21:34:05 * Alberth points at andythenorth
21:34:28 * andythenorth points at Yexo's industry patch
21:34:45 * TrueBrain slaps andythenorth for pointing
21:34:54 <andythenorth> Alberth started it
21:35:02 * TrueBrain puts andythenorth in the corner for telling
21:35:19 * andythenorth eats dinner and drinks a beer
21:35:34 <Sionide> but that's an optional patch right?? not in trunk?
21:35:51 <TrueBrain> slapping andythenorth? That is always optinal :)
21:36:09 <andythenorth> the patch to slap me definitely doesn't compile on mac
21:36:22 <TrueBrain> I do need to fix that
21:38:00 <dihedral> frosch123> Sionide: you mean a "undo knob" ? <- LOL
21:38:19 <dihedral> <andythenorth> OpenTTDoom <- OpenTTDNukem
21:38:31 <jonty-comp> openttd should have a bonus level like theme hospital
21:38:36 <jonty-comp> where you shotgun all the rats
21:38:45 <TrueBrain> wasnt someone working on that?
21:38:49 <jonty-comp> well, that already exists
21:39:01 <Sionide> they have a playable beta out..
21:39:03 <kd5pbo> What's Therme hospital?
21:39:04 <FauxFaux> It still works in dosbox.
21:39:14 <FauxFaux> We played it at a recent LAN.
21:39:24 <TrueBrain> of course it works in DOSBox
21:39:24 <Sionide> kd5pbo, take a guess..
21:39:32 <TrueBrain> TT work sin DOSBox too
21:39:40 <kd5pbo> Well, I know what a hospital is.
21:39:48 <kd5pbo> I'm still trying to figure out what a therme is.
21:39:57 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: OpenTTD even work(s|ed) in DOSbox
21:40:06 <Sionide> kd5pbo, okay so... extrapolate from that.. what other "Theme" games do we know? Theme Park etc.
21:40:13 <jonty-comp> kd5pbo: try removing the r
21:40:23 <jonty-comp> darn, beaten to it
21:40:28 <kd5pbo> So, a hospital where I can get treated on a roller coaster?
21:40:29 * jonty-comp spirals into depression
21:40:53 * KenjiE20 makes jonty take off his elvis constume
21:40:55 <Sionide> kd5pbo, there are no roller coasters.. just different treatment rooms and doctors and nurses..
21:41:34 <Sionide> jonty-comp, if openttd had a bonus level such as you describe, what would it be?
21:41:41 <Sionide> jonty-comp, shoot the UFOs???
21:41:44 <TrueBrain> 300 revisions in 2 months ... not bad, for a game like OpenTH :p
21:41:52 <jonty-comp> something like that
21:42:33 <Sionide> if you ever played the original, whether it be on PC or playstation... it's just a classic!!
21:43:21 <Rubidium> simtower... with santa claus! :)
21:43:25 <Rubidium> don't forget SimFarm :)
21:43:29 <jonty-comp> I found out the other day I could play Jazz Jackrabbit in DOSBox on my PDA
21:43:31 <Sionide> SimTower, yeah or one better.. SIM ANT!
21:43:33 <aber> they can research new illnesses, oO
21:43:38 <jonty-comp> unfortunately it's not fast enough for anything else :(
21:43:42 <IPG> does anyone know SimSig?!?
21:43:43 <KenjiE20> I was considering opensimant
21:43:52 <KenjiE20> then I realised simant still owkrs fine
21:43:55 <jonty-comp> oh, it can play Sim(Ant|Earth) in the SNES emulator
21:44:12 <Sionide> I think I'm going to have to investigate this DOSBox
21:44:34 <Sionide> anybody ever play Hocus Pocus???
21:44:35 <TrueBrain> I can convert old 16bit DOS application to C code! WHOHO! :)
21:44:47 <jonty-comp> I have SimFarm somewhere in my cupboard
21:44:49 <KenjiE20> anyone remember Afterlife?
21:45:01 <jonty-comp> TrueBrain: good, there's a long list to convert! :D
21:45:03 <Rubidium> KenjiE20: no, I'm not dead yet (I think)
21:45:11 <kd5pbo> KenjiE20: Actually, sounds familliar.
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21:45:29 <KenjiE20> pretty much what it says in the title
21:45:34 <TrueBrain> jonty-comp: openDUNE is the first :p
21:45:41 <jonty-comp> I also remember having Flight Simulator 3 on a floppy disk
21:45:48 <jonty-comp> and now I have FS2004 on five CDs :s
21:45:51 <glx> <TrueBrain> I can convert old 16bit DOS application to C code! WHOHO! :) <-- with MIDI sound ;)
21:46:11 <TrueBrain> MPU support, yes, tnx to glx :p
21:48:19 <glx> jonty-comp: high quality textures and sound ;)
21:48:25 <TrueBrain> jonty-comp: even OpenTTD no longer fits on a floppydisk
21:49:07 <TrueBrain> at least the executable :p
21:49:08 <KenjiE20> I remember TTO disks, but not TTDLX
21:49:18 *** Grelouk_ has joined #openttd
21:49:47 <Terkhen> NewGRF disasters... I created a few while trying to understand callbacks
21:50:12 <IPG> does anyone know what is the timeout at a server when your account goes to negative to let other people to take over your company?
21:50:19 <TrueBrain> easy to make a disaster out of NewGRFs :p
21:51:51 <kd5pbo> IPG: It's something a server can change, though.
21:52:13 <planetmaker> IPG: IIRC you get three warnings at the 1st of the quarter and if you're still at a negative balance at the 4th you get bancrupted
21:52:30 <planetmaker> and good evening everyone :-)
21:53:23 <Eddi|zuHause> TTO was on 2 floppy disks (installable)
21:53:53 <Eddi|zuHause> and OpenTTD perfectly fits on a 100MB Zip disk ;)
21:54:11 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: not with all the BaNaNaS content :p (275 MiB)
21:55:08 * Alberth uses just 10 letters to get OpenTTD :p
21:55:43 * planetmaker updates to the server's version just by means of "./start ps" ;-)
21:56:01 <planetmaker> which is incidentially also 10 letters :-)
21:56:15 <TrueBrain> makes his system unusable by just 7 chars: rm -rf / :p
21:56:35 <TrueBrain> I don't see the point in this game
21:56:41 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: you forgot one prerequisite, though
21:57:19 <planetmaker> I would only screw my data - usually :-P
21:57:32 <TrueBrain> I was talking about my system .. hence the 'his system'
21:58:01 <planetmaker> well, yes. But you're surely not always loged in as root?
21:58:21 <TrueBrain> I didn't say under which conditions
21:58:27 <TrueBrain> same for you: you aren't always in the right dir, are you?
21:58:49 <jonty-comp> that and most sane distros don't let you carelessly rm -rf / anymore
21:58:50 <planetmaker> hence "...forgot prerequisite..." ;-)
21:58:56 <jonty-comp> damn these "are you sure?" messages!
21:58:59 <planetmaker> hehe. also true ;-)
21:59:01 <TrueBrain> but you said: _you_ forgot
21:59:05 <TrueBrain> but it is _we_ forgot
21:59:15 <TrueBrain> jonty-comp: mine does .. Gentoo for the win :)
22:00:41 <peter1138> gentoo is not sane...
22:01:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r19146 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Use CommandCost in industry checking routines.
22:01:37 <TrueBrain> depends on the user
22:02:11 <Rubidium> the user running x86_64 wanting a stable OpenTTD?
22:03:28 <kd5pbo> Gentoo is perfectly sane.
22:03:35 *** Lippern has joined #openttd
22:04:01 <andythenorth> I had an idea, so you guys will code it right :P
22:04:06 <Lippern> hi. I have problems using OpenTTd multiplayer over internet. can anyone help me?
22:04:13 <andythenorth> idea above could be 'new in 2.0'
22:04:43 <Lippern> hi. I have problems using OpenTTd multiplayer over internet. can anyone help me Please?
22:06:06 <Rubidium> Lippern: can you be more elaborate about the problems?
22:07:28 <Lippern> ok, I want to start a server so I can play with my friends. but they cant find me on their lists, its over internet not LAN
22:07:36 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
22:08:19 <planetmaker> ^ Lippern open those ports in all firewalls and routers
22:08:34 <planetmaker> well. mostly the server firewall and router
22:11:05 *** nicecupoftea has joined #openttd
22:11:20 <Eddi|zuHause> surely, the emergency number should be '112'
22:14:38 <Lippern> ok, I went into my router adress and went on the firewall and DMZ on advanced, but they ask for a destination connection?
22:16:00 <aber> DMZ is probably not the right place. In my opinion this is a special port and your computer is not connected to this port.
22:17:11 <aber> You need to forward this ports, to your IP Adress.
22:17:22 <Lippern> ok, how do i do that?
22:18:15 <planetmaker> your Router's manual should help you
22:18:47 <Lippern> im a bad manual reader
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22:29:05 <kd5pbo> What can cause a city's population to shrink?
22:30:26 <planetmaker> people moving to other towns :-D
22:30:37 <__ln__> a border opening to west
22:31:01 <planetmaker> city population fluctuates. It can go up or down, if houses get replaced
22:31:12 <Eddi|zuHause> birth rate falling below death rate
22:31:46 <TrueBrain> people getting murdered more than people can fuck new ones
22:31:52 <Eddi|zuHause> in case of openttd, the "birth rate" is controlled by the number of stations, while the "death rate" is dependent on the number of houses
22:31:57 <TrueBrain> 9 month delivery time is a bitch
22:32:12 <Eddi|zuHause> so each town stagnates somewhere
22:32:37 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: I'm not sure there's a hard limit in OpenTTD.
22:32:50 <planetmaker> Except the map size of 2048^2
22:32:55 <Eddi|zuHause> there's not a hard limit, but a dynamic limit...
22:33:00 <kd5pbo> More houses mean a higher death rate or a lower death rate?
22:33:04 <Eddi|zuHause> a dynamic balance
22:33:29 <planetmaker> Well... not really. If it can grow it will continue to grow.
22:33:32 *** Progman has joined #openttd
22:33:42 <kd5pbo> There's plenty of room.
22:33:47 <planetmaker> Just the percentage growth won't stay the same
22:33:55 <Eddi|zuHause> you can expand a city to 300.000 in the scenario editor
22:34:03 <kd5pbo> I left my city when I went to bed and half of my population left in the middle of the night.
22:34:10 <planetmaker> We've built 1.5M cities ingame
22:34:12 <Eddi|zuHause> but once you start playing the game, and cannot manually adjust size, it will drop
22:34:21 <Eddi|zuHause> to something around 100.000
22:34:51 <planetmaker> so 100000 is not the max town size, by far
22:35:05 <kd5pbo> Eddi|zuHause: I was at 120k last night.
22:35:22 <Pod> What grfs do you guys play with?
22:35:46 <Eddi|zuHause> house sets might increase the number of inhabitants
22:35:59 <Eddi|zuHause> then of course towns can get bigger
22:36:22 <Pod> do you play with just that?
22:36:33 <Pod> I have that and have played with it, but in conjunction with UKRS
22:37:03 <Pod> I just wanna know a good "combo" set, if that makes sense? :P
22:37:04 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: the calculation is simple. each tick, a town has an x% chance to grow a house. each existing house has a y% chance to close in a given tick
22:37:19 <Pod> like, I don't want one thing changing the values/prices massively, but another grd not doing so
22:37:24 <Eddi|zuHause> so when x = n*y, the growth and shrinking rates are balanced
22:37:29 <Eddi|zuHause> where n is the number of houses
22:39:56 <planetmaker> are you sure that it's not "replace house" instead of "close house" actually, Eddi|zuHause ?
22:40:16 <Eddi|zuHause> no, those are separate things
22:40:58 <Eddi|zuHause> and TTRS might contain very high density houses, that the standard set does not
22:41:32 <planetmaker> might be that those games are with TTRS. Actually it's likely
22:42:10 <planetmaker> another game was like 4 x <~ 1 million. Can be fun actually ;-)
22:42:30 <planetmaker> Bad thing is that the ICE stations have no chance to get a good rating.
22:42:45 <planetmaker> The PAX turn-over is so high that there's too often too much waiting
22:43:10 <planetmaker> even if it's transported away in the next second by the next TGV or ICE
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22:51:03 <Eddi|zuHause> why would they need a good rating?
22:55:50 <planetmaker> well, they don't *need* it. But too many bad stations make the local authority quite unhappy
22:56:06 <planetmaker> Thus it inhibits further development of public transport within that city very much
22:56:20 <planetmaker> and that easily happens within large cities
22:57:09 <planetmaker> Especially the s-bahn stations near the center are also very crowded and through-put is also high. Thus their rating is also bad, even despite good vehicle coverage
23:01:55 <kd5pbo> planetmaker: What's s-bahn?
23:02:16 <planetmaker> inner-city rail. metropolitan rail
23:02:24 <planetmaker> whatever fits ;-)
23:03:17 <planetmaker> in a certain way also trams would or could qualify
23:06:45 <planetmaker> hm... I just got a 'connection lost' message from the server when I quit my client normally.
23:07:16 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i thought that was supposed to be fixed?
23:07:29 <planetmaker> well. r19145 is what I just used
23:07:41 <planetmaker> I *thought* so, too, though
23:08:57 <planetmaker> leaving normally = ctrl+q: want to leave OpenTTD? -> Yes
23:11:17 *** Brianetta has joined #openttd
23:20:27 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, it's after midnight, so technically it is morning
23:21:40 *** Dreamxtreme has joined #openttd
23:26:51 <Fast2> Eddi|zuHause: His local time is half past ten in the morning ;)
23:26:57 <Eddi|zuHause> australians are weird, they really have everything upside down... gravity points upwards, days are at night, summers are in winter
23:30:13 <__ln__> freedom of speech is censorship
23:31:43 <Eddi|zuHause> mammals carry their children on the outside
23:33:16 <Hirundo> War is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength
23:33:24 <__ln__> kangaroos are spotted much more frequently than in austria
23:34:21 <Eddi|zuHause> i never spotted a kangaroo in either austria nor australia
23:35:25 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... nick colours are dangerous...
23:35:40 <Eddi|zuHause> i constantly mix up people...
23:36:56 *** DJGummik1h has joined #openttd
23:37:30 <Eddi|zuHause> it's bad enough if you mix uo Hirundo or Terkhen with Rubidium
23:37:31 <Eddi|zuHause> but mixing up planetmaker and TrueBrain may be lethal...
23:44:10 *** DJGummikuh has joined #openttd
23:45:09 <planetmaker> good night for now, though
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23:52:45 *** Richard is now known as zephyris
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