IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-01-21
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00:00:16 <PeterT> Well, the "good arguments, good arguments" was sarcastic
00:00:46 <TrueBrain> no, cynical, as you were delivering 'drog redenen' .. dunno the english :p
00:03:32 <Eddi|zuHause> sarcastic is when one's trying to teach somebody, and cynical is when one's given up hope? :p
00:03:43 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: SSSTTTTTT
00:05:12 <TrueBrain> # geoiplookup6 -f /root/GeoIPv6.dat 2001:1af8:4100:a000:1:0:0:2 GeoIP Country V6 Edition: NL, Netherlands
00:05:21 <Eddi|zuHause> i can't figure out what "drog" is, though
00:05:46 <TrueBrain> if I ask: why is that yellow? You answer: because it is flying!
00:05:52 <TrueBrain> That kind of argument is 'faulty'
00:06:03 <Yexo> according to google translate "drograden" is "fallacy"
00:06:04 <DJ_Danni> How do i chance to 2045x2045 the biggerst or where can i get ir with a loat of buiesnesses and towns?
00:06:05 <Rubidium> drogreden: sophism, fallacy
00:06:11 <Yexo> although I've never heard of fallacy before
00:06:33 <TrueBrain> Other example: all elephants I have seen have trunks. Therefor, all elephants have trunks
00:07:15 <TrueBrain> or the ones I like: There have been spotted UFOs, therefor aliens exist
00:07:58 <Rubidium> oh lol... can't reach IPv4 only sites right now, but can reach IPv6. Usually it's the other way around
00:08:01 <SmatZ> TrueBrain: don't elephants have trunk by definition?
00:08:06 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: concratz :)
00:08:21 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: that is exactly the correct question ;)
00:08:38 <Rubidium> > Cutting people is a crime. Surgeons cut people. Therefore, surgeons are criminals.
00:08:42 <DJ_Danni> How do i chance to 2045x2045 the biggerst or where can i get ir with a loat of buiesnesses and towns and have Tram in to my TTD Online Play?
00:09:36 <Rubidium> > More cows die in India in the summer months. More ice cream is consumed in summer months. Therefore, the consumption of ice cream in the summer months is killing Indian cows. :)
00:09:41 <Yexo> > Did you know elephants can hide in strawberry fields? Ever seen an elephant in a strawberry field? See? it works
00:10:09 <Eddi|zuHause> DJ_Danni: search for settings like "map_x" and "map_y" (or similar) for 2048 you have to set value 11 (2^11=2048)
00:10:42 <Eddi|zuHause> DJ_Danni: in the cfg
00:11:41 <Eddi|zuHause> DJ_Danni: easiest is if you set up the game on a client, copy the savegame to the server, and load it there with the -g option
00:12:25 <DJ_Danni> you mean put 2048 to boath map__X and map_y?
00:13:11 <DJ_Danni> map_x = 11 This is now
00:13:49 <DJ_Danni> And in map_y = 11 this
00:14:47 <Eddi|zuHause> now save it, and try it out
00:15:44 <DJ_Danni> I have and i get Chose Map
00:16:38 <DJ_Danni> ok know i know. Thang you.
00:17:03 <DJ_Danni> I can also open from Save Games.
00:17:12 <TrueBrain> now I have smooth criminal in my head
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00:17:50 <SpComb> Alien Ant Farm hath good lyrics
00:17:50 <DJ_Danni> Thang you ALL for the HELP.
00:18:01 <DJ_Danni> With Greetings from Iceland
00:19:17 <Eddi|zuHause> "gzip -d would fail with a CRC error for some valid inputs. So far, the only valid input known to exhibit this failure was compressed "from FAT filesystem (MS-DOS, OS/2, NT)". In addition, to trigger the failure, your memcpy implementation must copy in the "reverse" order." <-- that must have been funny to debug :p
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00:20:07 <Rubidium> sounds like using memcpy when memmove should've been used
00:20:08 <SpComb> the memcpy sounds like something with overlapping regions
00:20:26 <SmatZ> memcpy should crash in that case or something
00:20:40 <SmatZ> valgrind luckily warns about that ;)
00:20:50 <SpComb> no, it just corrupts the data I presume
00:21:11 <SmatZ> it depends on the direction of copying and block size :)
00:21:36 <SmatZ> eg. it can fail only on SSE systems and such
00:26:39 <glx> TrueBrain: for the fun you can try to geoip me
00:27:18 <TrueBrain> # geoiplookup6 -f /root/GeoIPv6.dat 2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:d19e:d17c:208a:58d6 GeoIP Country V6 Edition: FR, France
00:27:37 <TrueBrain> now the python plugin ...
00:29:32 <TrueBrain> too bad, for IPv6 it only gives the country
00:29:40 <TrueBrain> not where on the world it is .. in lon/lat for example
00:31:27 <glx> my IPv6 has my IPv4 in it if you want more details ;)
00:31:49 <TrueBrain> that is not a general rule, so tnx, but no tnx :p
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00:32:55 <glx> should work for all 2a01:0e3x::x
00:33:32 <DJ_Danni> Hey where can i Download Savegame 100% Completed and with the Biggerst Land?
00:33:47 <Eddi|zuHause> nibbles was a snake-like game i used to play...
00:34:48 <luckz> PeterT, SpComb - so the everything build does not contain automated timetables & separation?
00:37:18 <Eddi|zuHause> BUT!!! why would it be called EVERYTHING!!! when it does not have EVERYTHING!!! in it !1!111!einself
00:38:00 * SpComb renames it to almost-everything for the future
00:39:29 <Rubidium> SpComb: just rename it to: a little bit :)
00:39:50 <Rubidium> or do you intend to add 32bpp 'extra zoom'
00:40:15 <Rubidium> "boldly going where no visual hack looks right anymore"
00:42:39 <Eddi|zuHause> the question is, which one is the "evil" mirror universe :p
00:42:59 <TrueBrain> whoho, Python plugin works, I can now find the country for IPv4 and IPv6 :)
00:43:07 <TrueBrain> now .. the location of a country .. so we can give some estimate ...
00:43:32 <PeterT> the command is "make bundle_zip", correct?
00:43:40 <Eddi|zuHause> statically built mapping?
00:44:15 <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: the command is "make help"
00:48:33 <Eddi|zuHause> i imagine there are tables with distances between countries...
00:48:55 <Eddi|zuHause> there are only in the order of 200 countries in the world, the table wouldn't be that big
00:49:18 <TrueBrain> this should be sufficient, I say
00:49:30 <TrueBrain> bit outdated, but okay
00:49:33 <Eddi|zuHause> 600? where do they all come from?
00:49:35 <wysiwtf> just how long would a tras-atlantic flight take if you modeled it in ttd?
00:49:50 <wysiwtf> and how many revenue it would bring?
00:50:08 <Eddi|zuHause> wysiwtf: there are at least half a dozen different scales that you could model in...
00:50:21 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: 203 countries are acknowledge by the world
00:50:24 <TrueBrain> the rest are not so much
00:50:50 <TrueBrain> 10 of them are those 'debate' countries, giving 193 real countries
00:51:22 <TrueBrain> 192 are part of the UN .. hmm .. didn't know that :)
00:51:24 <DJ_Danni> Where can i Download a Savegame in 2048x2048?
00:51:32 <TrueBrain> (Vatican of course is not part of the UN)
00:51:55 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: yeah, members of UN are the number of about 200 that i had in my head when making above statement
00:52:38 <Eddi|zuHause> but how do you get 600? that would mean on average every official country has 2 separatist regions
00:53:11 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: the US is already 50 "countries"?
00:53:14 <Eddi|zuHause> or you're counting stuff like the US states
00:53:49 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: let me try to find that for you .. but last time we looked in detail into this, because we had this huge debate in our house .. 400 countries are those 'independent' shit
00:54:27 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: if you're counting on that level, you also have to count every autonomous "native" nation within the borders of the US [which are orthogonal to the states]
00:55:04 <Rubidium> oh, you mean those places with relatively cheap food? :)
00:55:58 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: they share the territory, but not the jurisdiction
00:56:02 <TrueBrain> can't find it one-two-three on the web
00:56:30 <TrueBrain> now help me find an easy distance matrix
00:56:53 <PeterT> TrueBrain: Have you always used mibbit?
00:57:08 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: you mean calculate spherical surface distance from lat/long coordinates?
00:57:26 <TrueBrain> as then we ignore curvature ;)
00:57:42 <thingwath> coordinate of a coutry?
00:58:33 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: I worked a lot with VMAP0 and SRTG (mapgen?), so I do know how to compenstate for curvature even .. but I rather have a table :p
00:58:33 <Eddi|zuHause> what's difficult to understand in "no"?
00:59:01 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: uses google-maps .. possible, but .. rather not :)
00:59:05 <TrueBrain> (limited amount of requests per second)
00:59:07 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: well, when you have the formula, it's easy to build a table ;)
00:59:32 <Rubidium> @calc 200 * 200 / 3600
00:59:32 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 11.1111111111
01:00:09 <Rubidium> takes 11 hours at 1 a second... would be a bit slow I guess
01:00:28 <Rubidium> on the other hand, you only need country -> mirrors, so 200 * 3
01:00:45 <TrueBrain> but for every new mirror .....
01:00:50 <TrueBrain> so I rather have the table now
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01:02:36 <TrueBrain> there are faster 'approach' values :)
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01:04:40 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: the math should be easy enough to implement...
01:06:25 <TrueBrain> well, something for tomorrow
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01:38:27 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18872 /trunk/src/ (33 files): -Codechange: introduce PaletteID and use it
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01:45:03 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18873 /trunk/src/blitter/ (9 files): -Codechange: use PaletteID also in the blitter
01:46:53 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18874 /trunk/src/table/sprites.h: -Codechange: Change enum Sprites { to static const StringID = for each SPR_ entry and similar for cursors and palettes. This avoids the need for a cast in some places and thus provides better type-safety.
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02:38:37 <DJ_Danni> Hey i wan to Publish a Savegame with Icelandic Town Names for Open TTD. Where do i publish that?
02:41:21 <Eoin> as in, you have renamed all the cities to icelandic names?
02:42:07 <DJ_Danni> All town names are in Icelandic
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03:06:07 <DJ_Danni> Hope you all like it
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04:25:43 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Rubidium
04:25:43 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v Belugas
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06:16:54 <Sev_1> hmm, I've noticed the running cost stops changing shortly after a train is commisioned, even with varying loads, acceleration and whatnot.
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07:06:22 <Tera> you can remove the signals front of the station
07:17:54 <peter1138> the block signal is wrong though
07:20:34 <Lapsus> If you mean at the inflow to the station, it's a one-way PBS
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07:36:59 <peter1138> no, i mean the exit
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07:38:39 <Lapsus> peter1138: I'm guessing because of the lack of signalling after it, or what?
07:42:22 <Lapsus> Also, can openttd resolve addresses to IPs when adding a server to the serverlist, or do I need to give people my IP directly?
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07:44:34 <Terkhen> I use my DynDNS address when I act as server
07:46:32 <Lapsus> That's exactly what I needed to know, thanks :3
07:46:56 <Lapsus> saves me the trouble of having to learn tcl to modify ap+ :v
07:47:57 <Terkhen> I don't know if a dynamic address will be good for a dedicated server, though
07:49:29 <Lapsus> It's only for a small community, and it's on a dedicated system in my house anyways
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08:29:37 <sparr> the wiki doesn't seem to detail train speed/acceleration for original behavior, instead of realistic
08:29:43 <sparr> anyone got info on that?
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08:45:14 <Terkhen> besides checking the code directly... try the TTDPatch wiki, maybe it is documented there
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08:59:44 <Nite_Owl> So what exactly does the 'feeder leg percentage' refer to in that new advanced option? Is it the overall percentage of that total delivery's profit that only that feeder leg receives with the remainder going to the final leg? Or is it the percentage of the profit that the feeder leg gets just from the leg it travels?
09:02:18 * Nite_Owl is confused by his own phrasing but cannot do better at the moment
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10:00:25 <TrueBrain> in 20 lines I have a webserver running .. you got to love Python :)
10:00:31 <TrueBrain> anyone found a distance matrix yesterday? :p
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10:03:11 <Phazorx> hrm... run into interesting ethical question... I suggested a game type/GRF/Scenarios for economic model supporting warfare logistics... with emphasis on consumption level tiers cargo having very different expiry values and industries have major change in amounts of produced/required cargo... but them i was stomped for violating OpenTTD mission statement and brining militaristic aspects int totally pacifistic game... is that really the case?
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10:04:22 <wysiwtf> yeah and theres a border moving around and the cpu player has to build on the other side of it ;)
10:05:13 <Phazorx> well i wouldnt go that far
10:05:26 <Nite_Owl> The vast majority of the military themed ideas I have ever seen get shot down
10:06:05 <Nite_Owl> the few exceptions are graphic changes to the disasters
10:06:33 <Phazorx> Nite_Owl: military part in this case would be appropriate cargoes pretty much
10:07:38 <Nite_Owl> tanks, guns, ammo, etc. - very much frowned on by the development team
10:07:39 <planetmaker> Even then he's right, though. There are forum threads. I'm too lazy to search for them, though
10:08:11 <Phazorx> Nite_Owl: think about medkits, wounded and reinfrcements instead then :)
10:08:32 <Phazorx> tanks and guns wont be fun in terms of expiry though
10:09:58 <Nite_Owl> planetmaker: do you have an answer for the question I asked before <scroll up>
10:10:21 <planetmaker> I read it. But I have no definite answer.
10:11:28 <planetmaker> I *assume* it's the amount you'd get paid if it was delivered there
10:11:37 <planetmaker> (assuming it's the 1st part of a journey)
10:11:55 *** Eddi|zuHause3 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
10:12:01 <planetmaker> But I didn't check the source for the details
10:13:20 <Nite_Owl> so then each leg would be paid independently of the others which means ideally it should be set to 100%
10:13:50 <Nite_Owl> why get paid less than what the journey is worth
10:14:40 <Nite_Owl> but if that is the case then why have a percentage setting at all
10:15:10 <Nite_Owl> who would want to be paid less than what the trip would normally pay
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10:15:33 <Noldo> when the feeder drops it's cargo off there is no way to know how much the cargo will generate real income when it's really delivered
10:16:09 <Nite_Owl> which is why I am leaning towards the first option I asked about
10:17:05 <Nite_Owl> that the percentage setting is what percentage that feeder leg would get out of the whole journey
10:17:33 <planetmaker> well. The percentage setting can change it such that you don't get paid everything. You latest statement makes more sense
10:17:39 <planetmaker> Possibly that's the solution
10:17:58 <planetmaker> well... look up the commit and check the changelog associated with it :-)
10:20:59 <Eddi|zuHause> it only changes the virtual transfer profit
10:21:25 <Eddi|zuHause> the actual payment is still on the final leg, and still 100%
10:21:47 <Nite_Owl> so then my last statement was correct
10:23:33 <Nite_Owl> makes sense - if your feeder leg is long and the final delivery run is short then you want a higher percent going to the feeder leg
10:23:58 <Nite_Owl> of course it is a global setting...
10:24:53 <Nite_Owl> so no variation in feeder leg lengths
10:24:58 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: your bouncer is in CA, so it is correct
10:25:09 <Rubidium> no, it's in Amsterdam
10:25:23 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: your bouncer announces itself as being in CA, so it is correct :p
10:25:33 <TrueBrain> mine nicely says NL, so :p
10:25:46 <Rubidium> it's maybe that the IPv6s were first requested in Montreal (hi Belugas :))
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10:26:03 <Eddi|zuHause> ('::ffff:84.183.123.60', 10503, 0, 0) Your country code: DE
10:26:49 <roboboy> bah my internet is slow
10:27:23 <roboboy> my country code is correct
10:28:04 <Maedhros> it's been "connecting" for about 3 minutes so far, for me
10:28:16 <TrueBrain> by the fact 10 people loaded the page, and 4 only replied, I have to conclude the other 6 agree on the result as well? :p
10:28:20 <TrueBrain> Maedhros: port blocked?
10:28:43 <Noldo> TrueBrain: I got 3 good FIs
10:28:45 <Maedhros> TrueBrain: probably. this is a university network, after all
10:29:11 <TrueBrain> k ... so the results looks promising, good good :)
10:29:22 <TrueBrain> shutting down the server
10:29:42 <Noldo> is it for the mirroring thing?
10:29:45 <TrueBrain> now distance calculation ......
10:29:48 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: matches in my case
10:30:02 <TrueBrain> k, thank you all :)
10:30:30 <Phazorx> heh back in ... 96? i made a very low cost mirror selection for some site
10:31:38 <Phazorx> which loads set of hidden frames in each of which it requests a script from different mirrors that would reload the main frame using that mirrow
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10:31:59 <Phazorx> *mirror... naturaly whichever does it first is the fastest for you, ignoring other aspects
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10:36:05 <Nite_Owl> Ahhh '96 - the Internets was still just for cowboys back then... nerdy, geeky cowboys perhaps with very slow connections but it was still a wholesome place... none of that MMO crap to deal with...
10:36:41 <Phazorx> welll in 97 MMOs were quit big
10:36:49 <Phazorx> they were called MUDs tho
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10:37:31 <Nite_Owl> close but not quite the same thing
10:37:44 <Phazorx> what exactly is the difference?
10:37:52 <Eddi|zuHause> WoW is only a glorified MUD...
10:37:55 <Phazorx> aside of 13 yearolds populating the moder alternative
10:38:16 <Nite_Owl> MUDs did not have all of the glitz and glamor
10:38:19 <roboboy> MUD's were text based if I remember correctly
10:38:48 <Phazorx> Nite_Owl: there was more glamor in muds than there is in wow if you ask me
10:38:52 <Eddi|zuHause> hence "glorified"...
10:39:05 <Phazorx> and roboboy yes, text and ascii gfx... very beautiful and clean
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10:39:43 <Nite_Owl> MUDs were still in the realm of the user's imagination
10:40:01 <Phazorx> brain for rendering fantasy images is still unsurpassed by any video card tho... and quite cheap solution too...
10:40:04 <TrueBrain> orudge / peter1138: can you provide me with more exact graphical location of the server? (longitude / lattitude)
10:40:57 <Nite_Owl> nothing beats a brain
10:41:34 * Nite_Owl waits for the drum roll
10:42:17 * Nite_Owl waits for someone else to provide the punch line
10:43:24 <Eddi|zuHause> honestly, the discussion is turning a little sad...
10:45:42 <Eddi|zuHause> the other kind of sad...
10:46:28 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: luckily my IRC client picks up on that and starts to lag :)
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10:50:55 <Eddi|zuHause> good, because i'm starting to get awake now...
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10:57:45 <Luukland> Guys is it possible that all Russian IP's have the same UNIQUE ID in multiplayer?
10:58:05 <Luukland> The newly installed UNIQUE-ID checker is going all mad
10:58:22 <Eddi|zuHause> wouldn't be that unique then...
10:59:05 <Luukland> indeed, I got 4 russian players, all different IP
10:59:10 <Luukland> but all same Unique-ID
10:59:19 <Luukland> Might be some bug :S
10:59:29 <TrueBrain> I call it copy/paste
10:59:59 <__ln> In Soviet Russia, ..........
11:00:19 <Luukland> I could make a bug report about this if you like TrueBrain?
11:00:38 <TrueBrain> I am just suprised to read unique-id is still there
11:00:39 <Noldo> __ln: everyone is unique in the same way?
11:00:42 <TrueBrain> I thought it was obsolete
11:00:53 <Rubidium> unique id isn't used for anything anyway
11:00:55 <Luukland> Not really, we use it for autologin on the servers
11:01:04 <Luukland> its like a cookie :)
11:01:04 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know what the unique id is about either...
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11:01:11 <TrueBrain> well, then you should know it is in your openttd.cfg, so not as 'unique' as you might hope
11:01:17 <TrueBrain> and that it is horribly broken, and should have been removed
11:01:41 <Rubidium> oh... unique id is used for password hashes IIRC
11:02:00 <Rubidium> together with more random-ish data
11:02:01 <Luukland> I see, in that case could you make a flyspray entry?
11:02:04 <Eddi|zuHause> Luukland: part of the idea of a cookie is that the server has write permissions for it...
11:02:19 <TrueBrain> Luukland: make one yourself
11:03:22 <Luukland> Eddi, the only purpose of this ID is to connect players ID to webaccount :)
11:03:50 <Luukland> so if it got removed it would be very unfortunate
11:03:53 <TrueBrain> Luukland: I once suggested a more sophisticated way of assigning unique-id (via a centralized user system :p :p), but never got any time to implement any of it
11:04:30 <Luukland> Truebrain, you are right it is broken, when we ban ID, ppl can see the server, but get always a "Server is Full" message
11:05:05 <TrueBrain> in that case: Rubidium , I strongly suggest to remove most traces of unique-id ;)
11:05:19 <Luukland> That will break the whole server system
11:05:37 <TrueBrain> so make a patch for a better system ;)
11:06:56 <Luukland> Geez, I need a patch for everythin dont I :P
11:07:05 <TrueBrain> that is the general idea of development
11:07:13 <planetmaker> Luukland, the unique ID has a lifetime at most to the next re-install. Or deletion of the cfg
11:07:29 <TrueBrain> and an uniqueness of the amount of copies
11:08:31 <planetmaker> that said, we used it IIRC in wwottdgd/2 for identification purposes, too. But that was dih's part :-)
11:09:17 <Luukland> TrueBrain, development, I dont have time for ^^
11:09:46 <TrueBrain> should give you the closest mirror
11:09:58 <TrueBrain> (the closest 3 in fact)
11:10:26 <planetmaker> might be, if there's no DE
11:10:38 <TrueBrain> NL, GB, CZ and US exist
11:10:59 <TrueBrain> if you can use your own sanity to check if indeed the order is correct, that would be useful :)
11:10:59 <Luukland> And what should I do with those mirrors?
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11:11:13 <Luukland> Aye, well looks ok to me
11:11:20 <planetmaker> BUT: I deduce points for giving an accuracy which is based purely on fiction
11:11:27 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: in other words, is CZ closer than GB? (in reality?)
11:11:44 <planetmaker> TrueBrain, no, but distances up to the micrometer
11:11:59 <TrueBrain> what are the distances?
11:12:17 <planetmaker> 336.442169788 km, 481 and 814 (NL, CZ, GB)
11:12:34 <planetmaker> you know where I am :-)
11:12:39 <TrueBrain> owh, that was what you are talking about :p
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11:12:49 <TrueBrain> yeah, but I was wonder if CZ really was closer
11:13:08 <TrueBrain> k, let me load another database, see if that improves it
11:13:51 <planetmaker> well... NL distance might be correct. CZ... maybe. GB... maybe, too. Sounds big, though
11:14:21 <Rubidium> planetmaker: it's center-to-center
11:14:49 <planetmaker> Rubidium, centre of what? To the data centre? Yeah, that's why I cannot really judge
11:15:11 <Rubidium> planetmaker: country
11:15:30 <planetmaker> I thought geoIP would take the IP and try to locate it better
11:15:32 <Rubidium> center of UK is a bit further than e.g. London
11:15:46 <planetmaker> E.g. my IP can be located quite a lot better than centre of Germany
11:15:51 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: I loaded the IPv6 COUNTRY database
11:16:11 <Luukland> Guys, ignore my unique-id notice
11:16:24 <Luukland> these russian ppl got some russian openttd website thing
11:16:42 <planetmaker> yes. And share the cfg supposedly ;-)
11:16:57 <TrueBrain> owh, was that what I said? OWH DARN!
11:17:52 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18875 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: remove some unneeded bits from the network protocol and improve the naming of some variables
11:18:10 <TrueBrain> that happens when you set things in motion
11:18:46 <TrueBrain> so now we all point to you
11:19:03 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i get connection refused...
11:19:17 <Luukland> This version, also known as "assembly", is based on the official version of the game and contains a number of unofficial patches and new features. First of all, this version has a file of russianw.grf, adds Russian fonts into the game, as well as the choice of names of Russian cities
11:19:29 <Eddi|zuHause> "openttd.org: Network unreachable"
11:19:40 <Eddi|zuHause> what's that supposed to mean?
11:19:49 <peter1138> Luukland, yes, those crazy russains
11:19:51 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: CZ really is closer to you :)
11:20:02 <peter1138> ottd has support utf-8 for quite a long time now...
11:20:05 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: that I am working on it, and it is no longer functional
11:20:26 <Luukland> well planetmaker, they distribute openttd without license :)
11:20:48 <Luukland> So please, use your voice again
11:21:08 <Luukland> Link to open.ttdrussia
11:21:42 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: try it now
11:21:50 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: I made the placement slightly better, still ..
11:22:00 <peter1138> Luukland, have you ever tried speaking to russians?
11:22:07 <TrueBrain> I need more exact coordinated from peter1138 to make it better ;)
11:22:16 <Luukland> Yes, thats where I got the weblink from in the first place
11:22:26 <Eddi|zuHause> Distance to CZ mirror: 314.301566541 km Distance to NL mirror: 512.229366585 km Distance to GB mirror: 980.557971943 km
11:23:24 <Eddi|zuHause> 300 sounds a little low, where in CZ is that mirror?
11:23:31 <Rubidium> 13. ``Perfection (in design) is achieved not when there is nothing more to add, but rather when there is nothing more to take away.'' :)
11:23:35 <peter1138> TrueBrain, from me? what?
11:23:37 <TrueBrain> in the center of the country
11:23:47 <TrueBrain> peter1138: latitude / longitude values of the mirror
11:23:55 <Rubidium> 17. A security system is only as secure as its secret. Beware of pseudo-secrets.
11:24:04 <peter1138> middle of london somewhere
11:24:15 <TrueBrain> can you give any estimate of values?
11:24:25 <TrueBrain> I know have 54N, 2W
11:24:32 <TrueBrain> might not be the best :p
11:24:55 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: have you tried geoip-ing the ip of the mirror?
11:24:59 <Luukland> Meh, normally nobody listens to me suggestions, and now, poof unique-id gone
11:25:03 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: yeah, but this is easier ;)
11:25:29 <Rubidium> I'd say 0W or 0E is a better guess if it's in London
11:25:57 <Rubidium> pediwikia says: 51°30′29″N 0°7′29″W
11:26:11 <TrueBrain> 51.8N / 0.8W is what GeoIP suggests
11:26:31 <Rubidium> that seems to be a good suggestion
11:26:49 <TrueBrain> far outside of London
11:26:53 <peter1138> hmm, google maps doesn't give lat/long?
11:27:39 <peter1138> 51.522366,-0.083583
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11:29:07 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause / planetmaker: does that improve the result?
11:30:01 <Rubidium> Distance to NL mirror: 17.7432537595 km
11:30:42 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: Amsterdam ;)
11:30:57 <planetmaker> Well... if 366/398/732 (CZ/NL/GB) is an improvement. Dunno
11:31:05 <planetmaker> NL would seem better to me from my POV
11:31:15 <planetmaker> but not from central Germany, of course
11:31:19 <TrueBrain> can you ping them? (nl.binaries.openttd.org, cz.binaries.openttd.org, ..)
11:31:28 <TrueBrain> no, it picked up more or less your location
11:31:45 <Luukland> 154KM from Enschede to Amsterdam
11:31:49 <Luukland> well sounds reasonable
11:32:06 <peter1138> hmm, geoip is pretty... fail
11:32:33 <planetmaker> ping times = 21 / 25 / 29 in NL / CZ / GB order
11:32:37 <planetmaker> so NL would be faster
11:32:55 <TrueBrain> yup .. but clearly it doesn't really matter :)
11:33:02 <TrueBrain> so the estimates are good enough for me
11:33:25 <Rubidium> yeah... the fastest wireless connection ever was earth-moon IIRC, but the ping is dreadful
11:41:44 <Phazorx> you shoul really use my ancient approach for mirror selection imo :)
11:41:55 <Phazorx> dirty, simple and durable
11:42:59 <TrueBrain> yeah, lets put the extra unneeded load, the tons of things that can go wrong, and most of all: javascript, in the deps of our mirror
11:43:49 <Phazorx> the files used in my case were empty with 304 headers
11:44:02 <Phazorx> that's as low cost as you can get
11:44:28 <TrueBrain> 11:31 Phazorx which loads set of hidden frames in each of which it requests a script from different mirrors that would reload the main frame using that mirrow <- reload the mainframe == script
11:44:48 <Phazorx> yeah... so you have 3 frame setup
11:45:28 <Phazorx> reach of 2 hidden ones loads something like m1.site.top/pcikme.html and m2.site.top/pcikme.html
11:45:53 <TrueBrain> anyway, I like this approach much more :)
11:46:20 <Phazorx> pickmy.html is a blank file with header 304 which then goes to what you want it to do wih your top frame
11:46:27 <Phazorx> you can use anythin else instead of frames
11:47:28 <TrueBrain> a html file which gives a 304 back .. cool ....
11:48:06 <TrueBrain> either way, might have been a good idea back in the 80s, but it is a bit obsolete now, such ideas :)
11:48:06 <Phazorx> te point is not the html but the header it has
11:48:12 <TrueBrain> it gives an unneeded and unwanted load (socket-wise)
11:48:27 <TrueBrain> a client makes N (where N is the amount of mirrors) connections
11:48:31 <TrueBrain> which are completely unneeded
11:48:40 <TrueBrain> it requires frame support, javascript support, completely unneeded
11:48:44 <Phazorx> oh... so it's better for server to do N conecton ather than client
11:48:45 <TrueBrain> this approach is much more subtle
11:48:48 <Phazorx> checking if mirros are alive
11:48:53 <Phazorx> that saves a lot of cpu time indeed
11:48:59 <TrueBrain> hahahaha :) You should have asked what our plan was
11:49:05 <TrueBrain> before jumping to such conclusions
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13:34:18 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r18876 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: make sure m4 is always 0 for non-railroad station tiles
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13:59:18 <orudge> TrueBrain: 32.778176, -96.798206, I bleieve :p
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14:06:57 <TrueBrain> there .. balancer application finished .. seems to work rather well .. now it needs some live testing :)
14:21:22 <peter1138> i have a pair of switches that have suddenly decided to refuse to talk to each other
14:25:33 <Eddi|zuHause> get them to pair counselling :p
14:28:19 <peter1138> switch A: extreme summit
14:28:28 <peter1138> switch B: cisco w/ poe
14:28:46 <peter1138> telephone connected to switch A could see cdp from switch B and tried to POE off it
14:28:53 <peter1138> which fails of course
14:29:05 <peter1138> switch B sees several fails and disables the port
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14:43:47 <nick> what version of open TTD do you find the best?
14:43:59 <Belugas> peter1138: why did they suddenly decided to ignore each other? someone changed something? or it's the installatioj of your new server?
14:44:13 <Belugas> nick: is it for a poll? do we win something?
14:44:26 <Belugas> the nightlies, of course...
14:44:58 <nick> Nop,I've seen better then the stale version that all
14:45:42 <Belugas> you are making no sens to me
14:45:48 <peter1138> yeah, the powersupply of the phone was unplugged
14:45:49 <Belugas> what's a stale version?
14:46:02 <peter1138> so it started trying POE
14:46:12 <Belugas> peter1138: that would make sens :)
14:47:25 <nick> Deluxe is the expansion?
14:47:55 <Yexo> there is "transport tycoon", "transport tycoon deluxe" and "OpenTTD"
14:48:51 <Eddi|zuHause> nick: it's more like a successor, not an expansion
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14:49:40 <nick> So, OpenTTD is the newest one?
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14:51:09 <Belugas> no really a successor... It's a program based on Deluxe
14:51:29 <planetmaker> comercial game designers don't do it much differently, though ;-)
14:51:44 <planetmaker> They "only" have the advantage to not need to re-invent the wheel.
14:51:44 <Belugas> successor would imply that the orignal author of TTD kept on working and provided OpenTTD. Which is not the case
14:53:13 <Eddi|zuHause> well, there are different kinds of successors
14:54:46 <Eddi|zuHause> of course the "official" successor to "Transport Tycoon Deluxe" is "Locomotion"
15:00:27 <Phazorx> and then RCT... an the hell broke loose
15:01:00 <Phazorx> any of devs bothered to answer my Q from earlier btw?
15:01:37 <Coco-Banana-Man> Is RCT 3 a successor of 1 & 2? :P
15:02:10 <Phazorx> i didnt even know there was more than one....
15:03:01 <nick> hey guys,with the latest version AI's dont work,where can I download them?
15:03:28 <peter1138> from the content window
15:03:31 <Yexo> did you read the instructions?
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15:46:09 <Eddi|zuHause> at least it fails my url parser :p
15:47:17 <TrueBrain> to us. ? That is weird ...
15:47:28 <Eddi|zuHause> second try to cz
15:48:05 <Goulp> which is 15 hops from where i am
15:48:08 <TrueBrain> it is now just doing round-robin :(
15:48:49 <Maedhros> TrueBrain: works for me (gives me gb)
15:48:55 <Yexo> maybe because there is no load?
15:49:08 <Yexo> maedhros: try loading the page again, you'll end up somewhere else
15:49:25 <SmatZ> TrueBrain: us, cz, gb, us, cz, gb
15:49:42 <TrueBrain> can you guys try it again?
15:49:59 <TrueBrain> k, no longer doing round-robin :)
15:50:01 <SmatZ> TrueBrain: cz, cz, cz, cz, cz
15:50:23 <TrueBrain> I wonder why Yexo goes to gb ...
15:50:38 <TrueBrain> IPv6 always ends in .nl yes ;)
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15:50:56 <TrueBrain> Yexo: you should end up at nl ...
15:51:12 <TrueBrain> well .. not really .. NL prio is ten times as high ..
15:51:31 <TrueBrain> we need a real NL mirror ;)
15:51:43 <TrueBrain> no US hits so far, so that is promising :)
15:51:57 <Rubidium> unless someone from the US has been hitting it :)
15:51:59 <Goulp> what about a fr at freeix ?
15:52:24 <Luukland> ah nevermind, I am wondering if the ai-selling is still in openttd
15:52:41 <TrueBrain> you thought about your question carefully?
15:52:52 <TrueBrain> you know what happened last time?
15:53:00 <Luukland> Yes yes, I am sure :P
15:53:45 <Luukland> well, seems nobody removed it, so it is still there :)
15:55:25 <Eddi|zuHause> writing lots of small files to NTFS is sloooooow...
15:56:25 <TrueBrain> k ... started the new balancer in live env ...
16:09:50 <Eddi|zuHause> you might want to check the topic
16:11:00 <Eddi|zuHause> you can check the topic by writing /topic
16:11:38 <Eddi|zuHause> seriously, have you been here longer than two days?!?
16:11:43 <peter1138> /dev/cciss/c0d0p9 259G 188M 246G 1% /home
16:12:11 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: what do you do with devices that small?
16:12:45 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, amnesia is a bliss and a pain at once ;-)
16:13:24 <Eddi|zuHause> /dev/mapper/cr_sdc1 917G 910G 7,2G 100%
16:13:25 <peter1138> plenty enough for most things
16:13:26 <Eddi|zuHause> /dev/sdf1 932G 801G 131G 86%
16:13:41 <Eddi|zuHause> /dev/sda4 423G 385G 38G 92%
16:14:04 <planetmaker> that's acceptable
16:14:14 <Eddi|zuHause> /dev/mapper/pdc_cfbaej373G 346G 28G 93%
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16:19:36 <Luukland> Hmmm, someone did remove the ai-buying part
16:19:57 <Luukland> When an AI bankrupts now no option shows if you want to buy it
16:20:31 <planetmaker> you are a blitzmerker
16:20:39 <Luukland> Still the news message says that the "ai will be sold or decleared bankrupt"
16:21:06 <Eddi|zuHause> well, you can buy it from their company screen
16:21:36 <Luukland> "ai can be bought or decleared bankrupt"
16:21:42 <Luukland> Not what the message says :)
16:23:35 <Luukland> I want this sold thing back plz
16:23:47 <Luukland> It must serve for another purpose...
16:24:19 <planetmaker> tsk. You want it back so you can abuse it?
16:24:38 <planetmaker> then you should bring it back yourself.
16:24:41 <Luukland> no use it for the multiplayer system, for selling companies
16:25:19 <Eddi|zuHause> like i said, it's on the company screen...
16:25:55 <Luukland> Yes thank you for your very sharp eyes
16:26:06 <Luukland> back to the drawing board then
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16:28:12 <Vaevictus> greets. My brother asked me a question i thought i knew the answer to, but... apparently there's no cost estimate on tunnel creation?
16:29:01 <frosch123> shift works on almost every command
16:29:19 <woldemar> shift estimates anything: buying, building...
16:29:49 * TrueBrain clicks the shift on frosch123's face
16:29:58 <Vaevictus> woldemar: no way to default it on ?
16:29:59 <Belugas> "Ho, I did not knew that"
16:30:08 <woldemar> Vaevictus: default?!
16:30:19 <planetmaker> Vaevictus, you don't want to build by default?
16:30:22 <TrueBrain> capslock :p :p :p (no, not true)
16:30:23 <Belugas> so,,, default is to estimatem, not to build...
16:30:24 <planetmaker> Are you a **** accountant?
16:30:49 <woldemar> Vaevictus: just hold shift whie click
16:31:05 <planetmaker> hide the useful things behind key combinations like ctrl+meta+shift+print
16:31:14 <Vaevictus> seems like there was a hover for tunnels originally or ages ago.
16:31:19 <Vaevictus> but that'll work, thanks
16:32:06 <woldemar> planetmaker: i am using emacs, shift is not so hard to find out )
16:32:12 <Vaevictus> kinda like the length indicator option, but for estimate
16:32:21 <Eddi|zuHause> Vaevictus: there is a hover tooltip for the length
16:32:39 <Eddi|zuHause> Vaevictus: might be possible to patch it so it displays the cost estimate, too
16:32:52 <Eddi|zuHause> that's not even a bad idea...
16:32:54 <Vaevictus> Eddi|zuHause: yeah, i know. it'd be nice if there was a estimate tooltip, for tunnels at least, since they're potentially huge.
16:33:09 <Vaevictus> Eddi|zuHause: i really thought that it was like that, once upon a time.
16:33:31 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't remember anything like that...
16:33:38 <Vaevictus> just for tunnels though
16:33:48 <Vaevictus> maybe it's just my imagination. :)
16:33:58 <planetmaker> vivid and colourful
16:34:06 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you mix it up with a different game...
16:34:14 <Vaevictus> ahh... probably. :)
16:34:22 <Vaevictus> other games are terrible in comparison, though :)
16:34:25 <Eoin> there is a "cost" estimate for tunnels isnt there
16:34:43 <Vaevictus> don't reinforce my delusions :)
16:34:54 <Vaevictus> Eoin: you mean, like a tooltip?
16:35:11 <Vaevictus> yeah, we covered that, i was expecting a hover
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17:13:22 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r18877 /trunk/src/ai/ai_gui.cpp: -Change: make the default size of the AI debug window bigger so the 'no ai found' message can be read completely without resizing
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17:15:18 <Rubidium> geoiplookup gb.binaries.openttd.org
17:15:18 <Rubidium> GeoIP Country Edition: GB, United Kingdom
17:15:37 <TrueBrain> yes, it is uk, but we named it gb, just to be funny
17:20:54 <Ammler> he, why do they call their domain .uk?
17:21:16 <TrueBrain> I think you need to write someone a letter for that, to find that out :)
17:26:36 <Rubidium> Ammler: why is Germany not using .ge? As Japan uses .jp (Nihon/Nippon), Greece uses .gr (Hellas)?
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17:27:23 <Ammler> Rubidium: Germany has de in the iso table
17:28:05 <Vaevictus> germany is deuchland :)
17:28:25 <Eddi|zuHause> i still don't know who had the bright idea to use "gr" for germany in the dos keyboard layout settings ;)
17:29:56 <TrueBrain> peter1138: and another request: can you adjust the RDNS to say gb.binaries.openttd.org? uk.binaries.openttd.org will be phased out relative quick now
17:34:43 <Ammler> he, wikipedia knows (as mostly)
17:35:11 <orudge> the use of UK comes from JANET, as I recall
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17:35:27 <orudge> really, our ISO country code should be UK, although that'd then bugger up the Ukraine, I guess :p
17:36:22 <TrueBrain> go to war with them :)
17:36:22 <orudge> ah, hmm, no, they are actually still UA
17:36:33 <orudge> UK is actually still reserved for us
17:36:39 <orudge> although GB is our 'main' code
17:36:50 <orudge> so there's nothing wrong with uk.binaries.openttd.org, and indeed, I think it personally would be better than gb, but that's just me :p
17:39:10 <TrueBrain> dra.hmg.gb <- the only .gb, how sweet :)
17:39:33 <TrueBrain> orudge: the country is now dictated by GeoIP, which says GB. To keep one uniform value, we moved everything to gb
17:39:41 <TrueBrain> much easier to have one :)
17:40:23 <SpComb> fi.binaries.openttd.org would look good
17:40:43 <TrueBrain> you have all the info to make that happen spcomb :)
17:41:02 <SpComb> kind of wondering how much 1TB/month actually is atm
17:41:19 <TrueBrain> 4mbit/s (under 95% rule)
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17:42:22 <SpComb> unfortunately this is a best-effort line, so there's actually no traffic billing...
17:42:58 <orudge> ah, I see us.binaries.openttd.org has used 86GB this month already, heh
17:43:26 <TrueBrain> orudge: we currently push through (in total) 1 GB/h
17:43:29 <orudge> hmm, binaries.openttd.org sends me to nl.binaries.openttd.org, despite being in the US
17:43:40 <TrueBrain> IPv6 requests all end up in nl.
17:43:44 <TrueBrain> the only IPv6 mirror for now
17:43:47 <orudge> I was wondering, yes :)
17:44:09 <TrueBrain> it would be a bit bad to redirect that to a IPv4 mirror ;)
17:46:49 <SpComb> I don't have native IPv6, but I do have redundant IPv6 tunnels (i.e. multiple AAAA's + policy routing so all of them work)
17:47:44 <Vaevictus> orudge: nice. is there a monthly usage chart for us.binaries?
17:47:54 <orudge> not publically accessible, no
17:47:56 <TrueBrain> the nl. has native IPv6 :)
17:48:35 <SpComb> unfortunately my provider isn't that advanced, but I have good routing to fihel01.sixxs.net
17:48:48 <TrueBrain> orudge: btw, bandwidth on your end will decrease, we are keeping European users in Europe now ;)
17:49:18 <orudge> I'd best pack up the last of my stuff
17:49:21 * orudge is heading back to the UK
17:49:23 <TrueBrain> meaning you now got 10% of the users, instead of the 20% ;)
17:51:07 <SpComb> TrueBrain: but the mirror selection is done separately for IPv4 and IPv6?
17:51:42 <TrueBrain> how do you mean: seperarely?
17:51:56 <SpComb> IPv6 connections are balanced out to IPv6 mirrors
17:52:07 <TrueBrain> yes, of course .. would be silly to not to
17:52:17 <TrueBrain> say there is an IPv6 only mirror .. would you want to get that as IPv4 user? :p
17:52:43 <TrueBrain> or if you have an IPv6 only connection .. would be sad if you got directed to a IPv4 only mirror
17:53:09 <TrueBrain> either way, it is just wrong, to accept an IPv6 connection, then redirect to a non-IPv6
17:53:43 <SpComb> well, IPv6 traffic volumes isn't anything to be scared about either :P
17:53:46 <TrueBrain> now we just need IPv6 mirrors :)
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17:56:31 <Rubidium> SpComb: true, though 2-3% connects with IPv6 to our server
17:57:18 <Rubidium> similarly 3-4% of the (game) servers is IPv6 right now
17:58:25 <Eddi|zuHause> does that translate to "2-4% of the internet is IPv6"?
18:00:03 <Rubidium> more like 1-2% of traffic at AMS-IX is IPv6
18:00:39 <Eddi|zuHause> so we're "better" than the average internet :p
18:01:08 <Eddi|zuHause> how does a mere mortal like me get IPv6?
18:02:28 <Eddi|zuHause> tunnel to where? and can i get a static IPv6 while on a dynamic IPv4 line?
18:02:33 <Phazorx> the question shoudbe why nothw :)
18:02:39 <heffer> Eddi|zuHause, www.sixxs.net
18:02:47 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: tunnel to somewhere :)
18:03:15 <Phazorx> Eddi|zuHause: concept of tunneling is used as a term for encapsualtion... think of VPN
18:05:39 <Eddi|zuHause> i know what a tunnel is... it still needs and end point other than mine..
18:05:47 <Prof_Frink> Build a railway and tunnel to the coast!
18:06:32 <Phazorx> Eddi|zuHause: well you have ipv6 and server has ipv6... and all 30 hops in between it is ipv6-over-ipv4
18:07:59 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: the 'IPv6-broker' has a server which you'll be using as the other end of the tunnel
18:08:44 <Phazorx> that still very much avoids the question why would you do something like that....
18:09:05 <glx> IPv4 15 hops to openttd.org, IPv6 9 hops
18:09:10 <Rubidium> freenet6.net was the fastest to give you an account, but that got reorganised/commercialised so I'm not sure about that anymore
18:09:14 <Phazorx> this is like get a turbojet, put in on railway car load passengers into the jet and let them fly on rails like that
18:09:59 <glx> IPv4 pass through London :)
18:10:00 <Rubidium> because ipv6.google.com is so much better than google.com
18:10:52 <Phazorx> Rubidium: you i heard you get 2 cool points for that
18:10:54 <Rubidium> and because IPv6 removes the need (for me) to add portforwards in NATs; I just connect directly via IPv6
18:12:33 <Eoin> heffer: they require a reason for wanting IPv6
18:12:34 <Phazorx> dont get me wrong, i understand that v6 is needed and it works just fine and offers more features... but you need completely v6 environment to enjoy these benefits... such as corporate LANs or university net
18:12:46 <Eoin> what if i just think its cool :D
18:12:54 <heffer> Eoin, then that is you reason
18:13:28 <Rubidium> IPv6: 2001:1af8:4100:a000:1::2 (2001:1af8:4100:a000:1::2) 29.519 ms 29.784 ms 30.157 ms
18:13:31 <Rubidium> IPv4: openttd.org (85.17.162.188) 32.015 ms 32.320 ms 32.805 ms
18:13:36 <heffer> don't know. they accepted "Testing IPv6 Apps"
18:13:50 <Rubidium> and my IPv6 tunnel is even faster than raw IPv4 :)
18:14:25 <Phazorx> Rubidium: however probably due to lack of traffic on it compared to "usual routes" ?
18:15:27 <Rubidium> probably due to the router here having to NAT the IPv4 package and simply routing the IPv6 package
18:16:25 <glx> hmm v4 is faster than v6 for me (even if v6 route is shorter)
18:17:03 <Eoin> Im awaiting human verification now heffer
18:17:22 <Eoin> though, i dont actually get all this IPv6 stuff, so ill have to find out what its useful for!
18:17:59 <heffer> i use it to manage servers in my school where we only have an adsl line with a single dynamic ip
18:18:09 <Eddi|zuHause> Eoin: they say "can take between 1 day and 1 week" for the human verification
18:18:26 <heffer> in my case it took them 4h
18:18:49 <Eddi|zuHause> probably depends on the time zone as well...
18:19:13 <heffer> most of them are in the EU
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18:28:17 <Eddi|zuHause> (HUB = Haupt-Umschlagbasis) <-- who had that genious idea for an acronym? :p
18:31:57 <SpComb> hey, nginx has IPv6 support these days
18:32:56 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r18878 /trunk/src/ (3 files): -Fix [NewGRF]: crash when a newgrf used var62 in an industry tile chain when the industry tile was part of an original industry
18:41:00 <rait> hello. some dev's might remember that i had a freeze while exiting on windows server 2008 r2 (x64) with 1.0.0-beta2. the thing is, i'm having the same problem pretty much every time i try to exit openttd. could this be further analyzed? as far as i can remember it was a M$ issue, not a ottd one
18:42:47 <Rubidium> rait: does it happen with -s null ?
18:45:16 <rait> some kind of killswitch for sound?
18:45:28 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r18879 /trunk/src/lang/ (portuguese.txt slovenian.txt spanish.txt):
18:45:28 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:28 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: portuguese - 2 changes by SupSuper
18:45:28 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: slovenian - 6 changes by ntadej
18:45:28 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: spanish - 149 changes by Terkhen
18:46:33 <rait> it's kind of hard to test, can't be sure what trigers the problem ... so i just need to play a while
18:48:08 <rait> "hard" isn't the correct word, "time-consuming" would be it
18:49:19 <Eddi|zuHause> not only is ubuntu getting more like windows, now windows is getting more like ubuntu! :p
18:50:07 <rait> in the mean time, could i request that the dump i have from few days ago would be further analyzed? maybe it has a hint. if it's possible, i'll re-upload it
18:51:08 <Rubidium> rait: it showed that it was waiting on something somewhere in ntdll.dll when shutting the audio down
18:51:51 <rait> so ... thinking backwards, what causes the audio to open in the first place?
18:53:06 <rait> i'm not an expert but shouldn't openttd just be able to "hang up" and let windows deal with its own problems?
18:56:08 <glx> yup it hangs when shuting down sound
18:56:43 <glx> it's not openttd, it's windows
18:57:01 <glx> openttd just ask windows to close sound "channel"
18:57:21 <rait> what would happen if openttd would just "forget" to do so?
18:57:43 <glx> when you open something, it's nice to close it
18:58:01 <Eddi|zuHause> either she faints, or the universe explodes
18:58:57 <rait> in what point does the audio channel get opened? as soon as you start or at some event?
19:00:44 <rait> so no clues why it works sometimes and not on others?
19:01:46 <glx> maybe the calls order, but it's hard to tell as it works for me
19:03:55 <rait> so basically, it's a b**ch to debug?
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19:05:37 <glx> as always when you can't reproduce it :)
19:06:56 <rait> it doesn't seem to be something that can be reproduced with just load game and exit
19:18:44 <rait> where can i get the symbols to locally debug?
19:21:13 <Eddi|zuHause> most likely by compiling a debug build yourself
19:26:50 <Yexo> binaries.openttd.org also has the pdb files
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19:31:37 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r18880 /trunk/src/aircraft_cmd.cpp: -Fix: aircraft can be send to an hangar when the target airport has one and when it can land, not only when it has a plane terminal
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20:02:53 <rait> since i can't figure out how to setup my debugger to use symbols and beta3 is out, i'm kind of abandoning it. unless beta3 has the same thing, it's case closed by me ...
20:06:14 <Eddi|zuHause> well, as nobody knows what your problem is, it likely is not fixed between beta2 and beta3
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20:17:34 <Belugas> and it's likely something on your side. update your drivers?
20:18:14 <dihedral> why on earth do you need sound on win 2008 server?
20:18:51 <TrueBrain> oeh oeh oeh, I know thatone: to listen to music!
20:19:15 <dihedral> er.... server? hello?
20:19:24 <dihedral> it's not like it's some media thing
20:19:36 <dihedral> if you want a workstation install an opropriate os
20:19:41 <Alberth> it needs to say 'beep' when you press the wrong key
20:20:02 <dihedral> usually that goes through the speaker :-P
20:23:19 <Belugas> appropriate, not opropriate
20:23:34 <Belugas> plus... as long as it can drive a machine, it's an appropriate os
20:24:50 <Eddi|zuHause> is that the "onomatopée" that a rim shot makes? ;)
20:25:45 <dihedral> Belugas: you are saying DOS 5.2 is an appropriate OS todays, because it can drive a machine?
20:26:08 <Eddi|zuHause> there never was a DOS 5.2
20:26:20 <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, who cares? :-P
20:26:39 <Eddi|zuHause> (at least if you mean MS DOS)
20:26:44 <Belugas> so the question would be... if the Os supports waht you expect it to do, who cares
20:27:26 <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: if it's a "don't care", then don't fill in any numbers at all
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20:43:39 <sakishrist> where could i possibly find info about the tcp interface the game uses while in multiplayer?
20:43:53 <TrueBrain> wiki.openttd.org (although outdated
20:44:01 <TrueBrain> vcs.openttd.org/svn/, under trunk/src/network
20:44:05 <Yexo> source code src/network/*
20:45:17 <sakishrist> I have looked there ... I only found a (very useful) file that explains the udp interface ... but only the udp
20:45:42 <TrueBrain> then I think you have to look a bit better ;)
20:46:44 <sakishrist> there is only the source code ... but in the udp.h file there is info about the packets the client and the server exchange ... that is the info I am looking for
20:46:59 <sakishrist> not the actual code
20:47:13 <Yexo> I don't think there is other info then the actual code
20:47:24 <TrueBrain> on the wiki, the first version of this protocol is documented
20:47:32 <TrueBrain> but it was never updated, so it doesn't reflect the latest
20:47:57 <TrueBrain> but if you look at the URL I gave you, you will see that at each function is clear documentation about the usage
20:48:37 <sakishrist> hmm ... ok then, ill have another look at the wiki and see if I can get along with the source. Thanks a lot! :)
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20:50:56 <Rubidium> what do you intend to do with the application that supports the protocol?
20:56:14 <sakishrist> Ok ... I found some info thanks to your help.
20:57:15 <Belugas> most likely studying how a networked application might work, in my humble opinion
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20:58:34 <sakishrist> @Rubidium, well ... actually what belugas said is correct ... + I just have a wild dream to make an external ai
20:58:39 <Rubidium> hi Terkhen; marked a string in the Spanish translator because someone said the string wasn't right. Could you test that?
20:58:59 <Terkhen> I was just reading the closed flyspray task
20:59:41 <TrueBrain> sakishrist: there are easier ways ;)
20:59:59 <Rubidium> sakishrist: you are aware that you need to (more or less) keep the state of OpenTTD in your external AI so you know how the map looks?
21:00:20 <Rubidium> i.e. you need to basically implement the whole game logic of OpenTTD
21:00:40 <Yexo> sakishrist: it's much easier to patch openttd so it can run an AI company locally and sent all DoCommands to the server
21:00:41 <TrueBrain> sakishrist: use the client ;)
21:00:57 <sakishrist> yeah ... I thought of that ... and that's the reason I said wild
21:01:10 <sakishrist> what do you mean by "the client"
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21:05:38 <Belugas> Yexo, don't say that word... you're scaring customers away ;)
21:09:14 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18881 /trunk/src/ai/ai_gui.cpp: -Codechange: make the AI debug window look nicer when not at its minimum size
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21:24:22 <Bluelight> Does the OpenTTD server work on a network with several computers?
21:24:48 <TrueBrain> we call it The Internet
21:25:18 <Eddi|zuHause> more than one computer in ONE network? blasphemy! herecy!
21:25:49 <Bluelight> I heard something about it not working correctly..
21:26:18 <Eddi|zuHause> next thing you want to tell us is that the world is actually _round_ ...
21:26:36 <Bluelight> I have a server and my personal computer behind the same ruter.. Can I host internet games with my server?
21:26:43 <Eddi|zuHause> seriously... how would people not fall off it?!?
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21:27:54 <Bluelight> Ohh my.. Can't you just reply to the question. please? .. :P
21:27:59 <Eddi|zuHause> Bluelight: yes, you can host a game, but local computers might not be able to join from the server list, only by adding the (local) IP manually
21:28:32 <Bluelight> I just set the list to LAN..
21:28:34 <Prof_Frink> You will also have to set up port forwarding on the router.
21:28:46 <Bluelight> I'm not that stupid..
21:28:59 <Bluelight> I have all ports open on the server
21:29:19 <Yexo> you have to set up port forwarding on the _router_ to the server
21:29:24 <Bluelight> Do you think I but a havy duty serverhardware and not open the ports? H ehe.. :p
21:29:30 <Eddi|zuHause> honestly, we have no idea how stupid you actually are...
21:29:55 <Yexo> Bluelight: you'd be amased at the stupidity of some questions that are asked here
21:30:49 <heffer> actually buying heavy duty server hardware to run openttd on IS stupid :P
21:30:55 <Bluelight> Is it possible that the listserver got some issues sometimes? Some times the server have trouble listing..
21:31:29 <Yexo> possible, but it's more likely the problem is on your end (either your connection or your port forwarding or your server)
21:31:29 <Bluelight> Well I will run more then just OpenTTD on it though..
21:32:39 <Bluelight> I don't think it's on my end.. It only happens sometimes..
21:34:59 <Bluelight> Here is a picture of my server hardware.. :)
21:35:44 <KingJ> 6 nice high speed, high noise fans at the front ;)
21:36:12 <heffer> the fans on the g3 aren't too bad. it's the drives :D
21:36:32 <Bluelight> Is there any drivers? lol
21:36:48 <Prof_Frink> You can't chuck that in a rucksack and go off mapping unencrypted wifi very easily
21:37:30 <Bluelight> It's kind of stationary..
21:37:33 <KingJ> I would love to see someone try though
21:37:50 <Bluelight> I will run FreeBSD on it in a few days.. And I think I have WMvare..
21:38:16 * SpComb has partially migrated his lighttpd stuff to nginx
21:38:17 <heffer> but the g3 doesn't do hardware virt
21:38:38 <SpComb> the lack of CGI, FastCGI-spawning and PATH_INFO is making life difficult
21:38:42 <heffer> the hard drives are loud was what i was saying
21:39:07 * SpComb has one of those in his cupboard as well
21:39:37 <Bluelight> Well that was all I could affoard..
21:39:57 <Prof_Frink> Bluelight: Nah, mount it on some casters, ramp up the fans and watch it go!
21:40:27 <Bluelight> I don't know what that is.. I guess I'm stupid after all..
21:40:41 <SpComb> Bluelight: it's great hardware, and cheap (you could probably even nab a palette-load for free if were in the right place at the right time...) - but it's netburst, and SCA :(
21:41:17 <Bluelight> SpComb.. What does that mean?
21:41:35 <SpComb> Bluelight: old CPUs and old hard drives
21:41:44 <Prof_Frink> netburst means get your frying pan out
21:42:11 <Bluelight> Well it's 2 CPU's at 2.8 each and 6 SCSI discs..
21:42:44 <SpComb> Bluelight: imagine those CPUs to be Pentium 4's, and you're about there
21:43:28 <Bluelight> Well, should be good enought to host OpenTTD?
21:43:35 <SpComb> if you can stand the noise and heat
21:43:52 <SpComb> and the hardware's good quality
21:43:54 <Bluelight> Yeah I've been thinking about it, lol
21:44:14 <Prof_Frink> Bluelight: I've run openttd on my "server" before.
21:45:18 <Bluelight> The only think I'm wondering about is the temperature in the room where I have the server.. It should be less then 16'C ,right? And I have 23 degrees..
21:45:45 <peter1138> why less than 16°C ?
21:46:12 <Bluelight> To reduce stress on the hardware..
21:46:49 <Prof_Frink> Didn't google do research that showed that actually it isn't?
21:46:57 <peter1138> flunctuations are bad
21:47:02 <SpComb> Bluelight: well, it'll depend on the CPU load, but normal room temp without adequate ventilation is quite likely to lead to thermal protection shutdowns
21:47:30 <peter1138> yes, ventilation is important, not temperature
21:47:37 <peter1138> well, within reason :)
21:47:39 <SpComb> Bluelight: the BIOS ambient temperature limit for the thermal shutdown is very low, I can't remember exactly, but I think it was under 30°C
21:47:55 <SpComb> Bluelight: good news is, you can disable the termal protection shutdown :)
21:48:01 <Bluelight> Ok, so the server might shut down?
21:48:12 <SpComb> Bluelight: if it gets too warm, yes
21:48:26 <SpComb> that's been the only issue I've had with the hardware so far
21:48:29 <Bluelight> Well I'm planning to buy a UPS now..
21:48:41 <SpComb> don't spend more on the UPS than the server...
21:48:52 <peter1138> 2.7W that won't get you far
21:49:08 <blathijs> Bluelight: You're considering putting a beast like that in your home?
21:49:11 <Bluelight> What do you mean? Server uses only 800W
21:50:21 <Prof_Frink> Shirley UPSes should be rated in Wh rather than just W
21:51:32 <peter1138> i buy old DL3[68]0s... they cheap and perform well enough
21:51:47 <SpComb> if you don't have to pay for power yourself
21:52:02 <SpComb> peter1138: do you buy replacement disks/fans from somewhere?
21:53:12 <SpComb> perhaps I should take a photo of our HL DL380 G3 + SATA RAID setup sometime
21:53:24 <peter1138> the newer kit is just as power hungry, it just does more with it
21:55:00 <Bluelight> Ok, I want some sort of latency value in the server list.. Is that possible?
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21:58:03 * SpComb wonders what to do with his 1464 SixXS-ISK
21:58:44 <peter1138> TRANSACTION LOG File Layout
21:59:03 <peter1138> tlccno variable text, 16 characters credit card number
21:59:13 <peter1138> 1) storing unencrypted card numbers
22:01:10 <glx> it's enough if you don't care about validity date and the code behind the card ;)
22:01:37 <glx> and as it's not encrypted it's better to not store all infos
22:01:50 <Bluelight> Ok, I'm going to bed.. Nice to chat.. cya! Good night! :)
22:05:58 <Belugas> HO...NIGHT.. INDEED... gOOd Night!
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22:29:44 <Eoin> I now have IPv6 supposedly
22:29:54 <Eoin> now, what do i do with it :D
22:30:09 <Eoin> Ive got the account verified on SixXS
22:30:36 <Rubidium> tss... who's in charge of the topic of this channel?
22:31:14 *** Progman has joined #openttd
22:31:19 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: I have not seen You.
22:31:55 <Eoin> i dont quite get how to i can "use" IPv6
22:34:51 <SpComb> Eoin: pick your tunnel endpoint and some suitable tunnel type
22:34:58 <SpComb> Eoin: then request a tunnel
22:35:34 <Eoin> as far as i can tell i want AICCU
22:38:25 <SpComb> if you're on windows, yes
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22:56:24 <Eddi|zuHause> so if i run the tunnel on the router, i can choose heartbeat?
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23:04:06 <mirQus> I just read commit for r18828 and the code was wrong and was changed to be wrong.
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23:04:52 <Yexo> why do you think it's still wrong?
23:04:54 <mirQus> C++ says, that only pointers to array elements and +1 are valid.
23:04:59 <mirQus> So this code should be:
23:05:17 <mirQus> T *p = this->data + length;
23:05:33 <mirQus> while (p != this->data) { --p; p->~T(); }
23:05:50 <Yexo> that's exactly the same as the current code
23:06:18 <mirQus> No. This code can actually make an assignment p = this->data - 1;
23:06:39 <mirQus> And that's not guaranteed to work (but works anyway probably in all current compilers).
23:07:02 <Rubidium> but... what's the value of this->data?
23:07:16 <mirQus> C++ purists would tell you that current code is not C++. ;)
23:07:44 <Yexo> maybe not, but since this->data != NULL (if NULL is not 0 then there are a lot more problems in openttd code)
23:07:51 <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause: dunno, I just use a plain 6in4 tunnel because I have a static address and upstream doesn't break on proto 41
23:08:02 <Rubidium> for the fun of it...
23:08:19 <Rubidium> this->data[-1] is the begin! of the allocated array
23:08:41 <Rubidium> or something like that
23:09:12 <Rubidium> i.e. that whole class/struct is one big hack
23:09:15 <mirQus> If this->data is a value from new sth[]; then no.
23:09:41 <mirQus> this->data[0] is the beginning.
23:09:46 <Rubidium> this->data = malloc(something) + offset;
23:09:57 <mirQus> And this->data[-1] is undefined.
23:10:06 <Rubidium> in the destructor it does
23:10:12 <Rubidium> free(this->data - offset)
23:11:36 *** Tennel is now known as andreas
23:12:18 <mirQus> Still, this is not C++, but C. And even then I'm not sure it's standards compliant. :>
23:13:16 <mirQus> In userland it's probably not important, but array elements might be not properly aligned in the array if allocated like that.
23:13:29 *** andreas is now known as Tennel
23:14:26 <mirQus> BTW, what's the point of allocating the header if the object needs it anyway and can have it as a field?
23:14:54 <Rubidium> definitely true and definitely not a nice piece of code... but YAPF kinda depends on how the thing works, so I rather keep it as-is unless someone is really interested in rewriting YAPF
23:15:39 <Rubidium> 'luckily' the developer of YAPF left quite soon after this hit a stable release
23:16:07 <SpComb> hit-and-run contribution
23:17:55 <mirQus> But is it using the SmallArray's internals?
23:18:03 <mirQus> Quick grep didn't show anything like that.
23:19:25 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18882 /trunk/src/table/settings.h: -Change: default to zero AIs
23:20:18 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18883 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt settings.cpp settings_gui.cpp): -Codechange: warn in the difficulty and AI configuration window when setting the number of AIs to non-zero when you don't have AIs
23:20:31 <SpComb> sounds like a good default to me
23:21:14 <mirQus> Ok, back to reading git log. ;)
23:22:03 <SpComb> but difficulty changes to custom?
23:22:37 <Yexo> the other difficulty levels have more then zero AIs
23:23:42 <mirQus> Yexo: BTW, c++ says that you can compare 'empty' pointer to int(0) even if the pointer's internal representation is not all-zeros.
23:24:15 <Yexo> mirQus: and memset(struct with a pointer, 0, sizeof(that struct)); <- does that also work as expected?
23:24:30 <mirQus> memset() is not in C++. :>
23:24:37 <Yexo> it's used a lot in openttd
23:25:40 <mirQus> But it's an interesting question, regarding c++ standard. I don't have a copy unfortunately.
23:26:18 *** glx changes topic to "0.7.5, 1.0.0-beta3 | Website: *.openttd.org (BaNaNaS: bananas, translator: translator, server list: servers, nightly-builds: nightly, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | #openttd.notice for SVN notices | UTF-8 please | No Unauthorised Bots | English only"
23:27:10 <mirQus> It's in <cstring> co actually memset() is ok.
23:28:03 <Yexo> I wonder how that could actually work then, as memset accepts void* so doesn't know about what struct it zeroes
23:28:35 <mirQus> Though not if the struct has anything other than POD's as members probably.
23:29:37 <mirQus> I mean if there's some member of a class that wants to be initialized by it's constructor, then after memset it might be in invalid state.
23:29:40 <Eoin> SpComb: i have a DMZ set up
23:30:18 <Rubidium> isn't the 0 as pointer but the 'NULL' doesn't necessarily be literally 0 stuff also in the C standard?
23:30:46 <Rubidium> cause I very much doubt that they add such a thing to only C++
23:31:00 <mirQus> I remember some discussions on one mailing list or newsgroup, that NULL is not in C++ actually.
23:31:02 <Rubidium> and as such the problem with memset is in there too
23:31:08 <SpComb> Eoin: then proto 41 might work, so heartbeat/static could work as well
23:32:19 <mirQus> And in C++ you should compare/initialize pointers with 0. But I think it's goot do differentate integer 0 and empty pointer, so #define NULL 0 is a good thing in my book. ;)
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23:33:43 <Eoin> i picked that other one already
23:36:42 <luckz> how do I dispose of a crashed train again?
23:36:58 <luckz> I'm playing around with PBS and I made three trains crash :D
23:37:29 <SpComb> luckz: be careful when removing signals or connecting two track segments
23:37:35 <Vaevictus> luckz: or make dupe them irst
23:37:48 <Vaevictus> first... is there a tutorial for pbs?
23:38:23 <Nite_Owl> just the wiki entries
23:39:13 *** Coco-Banana-Man has quit IRC
23:43:43 <Eddi|zuHause> there are lots of tutorials
continue to next day ⏵
