IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-12-08
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00:00:36 <Chrill> Name that car @ TT-Forums
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00:15:28 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18428 /trunk/src/roadveh_cmd.cpp:
00:15:28 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Fix: if lots of road vehicles are leaving a depot and the first in the hash
00:15:28 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: linked list is basically the last of the vehicles to leave the depot then due to
00:15:28 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: the 'jam prevention' code all vehicles would fairly quickly increase the blocked
00:15:28 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: counter and drive off all simultaniously
00:16:44 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18429 /trunk/src/roadstop.cpp:
00:16:44 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#3360]: when road vehicles are, because of the 'jam protection' running
00:16:44 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: through eachother more vehicles could be in a road stop than there could be
00:16:44 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: under normal circumstances. As such an assert when the road stop's limits are
00:16:45 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: reached isn't good.
00:16:46 <SpComb> (spoiler: those are usually song lyrics)
00:26:17 <Zuu> It would be interesting with a non-drive-through variant of the drive-through bus stop. Having one of the entries/exits cut of so that the road vehicles are forced to turn back.
00:27:08 <Zuu> You could make that with the current drive-through bus stops untill a town or other player "sabotage" your bus stops by building a road at the other end.
00:32:13 <Eddi|zuHause> Zuu: unfortunately it doesn't work with trams
00:32:45 <Zuu> Sure, but the original bus stops do neither work with trams.
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00:33:17 <Eddi|zuHause> i so desperately want real tram turning loops
00:33:46 <Zuu> I could imagne that with your playing style.
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02:33:46 <curriegrad2004> hey, has anybody tried to compile OpenTTD against the Windows 7 SDK yet?
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02:38:12 <Belugas> i have not heard of anyone who did,curriegrad2004
02:38:44 <curriegrad2004> well, I'd doubt that anybody has tried
02:38:44 <Belugas> but at the same time, if somebody did it, that som eone would not have rported it either
02:39:05 <curriegrad2004> I've compiled OpenTTD against Vista's SDK and it came out fine
02:39:11 <Belugas> you make an ss of you and me
02:39:34 <Belugas> therefor there s no reason why it would fail under win 7
02:39:56 <Belugas> therefor there is no reasons to worry
02:40:05 <Belugas> besides, i don't have win 7
02:40:16 <Belugas> nor any of the devs, i THINK
02:40:23 <glx> I compile on win7 and it works
02:40:34 <curriegrad2004> against the Win7 SDK?
02:40:43 <curriegrad2004> with the DX SDK from 2008?
02:41:48 <Belugas> haaaa... glx has win7 .. so i was wrong, but i was right at the same time about the fact that people mght do comlile on win 7 na dnot shout it out on all roofs:D
02:41:56 <glx> using default v6.0A SDK and DX from august 2007
02:42:18 <glx> ottd can't use more recent DX SDK
02:44:10 <glx> v6.0A is the SDK included with MSVC 2008 express
02:45:20 <curriegrad2004> is there a way to get ottd to compile without DX SDK?
02:45:37 <curriegrad2004> I read the wiki that you could compile it without the dx sdk
02:46:08 <curriegrad2004> under msvc that is
02:47:34 <glx> edit project properties and remove WIN32_ENABLE_DIRECTMUSIC_SUPPORT from preprocessor defines
02:48:40 <glx> but it's easier to install the SDK
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02:52:45 <Belugas> why would someone want to do that?
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06:26:43 <Maki> I have a question I don't know where else to go to.
06:40:20 <Maki> I was wondering where to find more information with regards to r17338.
06:40:37 <Maki> I've been trying to find it in the forums without much luck
06:42:04 <Maki> With regards to r17338, I was wondering if it solved the issue I see mainly in small airports, which is that the airplanes on the ground often are allowed to move while there may be a queue of several planes in the air.
06:42:41 <Maki> Considering I would rather first see if this is solved before bothering people on the forum with it, I'll stick around for another hour or so here.
06:53:23 <Forked> I have no idea, but you could always test it yourself?
06:54:17 <Sacro> if it solved the issue I see mainly in small airports, which is that the airplanes on the ground often are allowed to move while there may be a queue of several planes in the air.
06:55:49 <Maki> I use Kubuntu Hardy because KDE 4 isn't stable enough yet for me to want to change to it. So I'm waiting past Karmic. Kubuntu has the nasty habit of not updating packages such as OpenTTD until the next Kubuntu release. I already checked to see if I could upgrade by adding Karmic to my repositories but it seems there are some KDE 4 dependencies it won't run without. So I'm stuck running 0.6.0
06:56:47 <Maki> Karmic, by the way, has OpenTTD 0.7.1 from the top of my head.
06:59:22 <Maki> Aanyhow.. information about r17338 should be available online somewhere, no? I just want to know where. @_@
07:03:34 <Maki> Basically I just want to know if this apparent "better behavior for airplanes at airport" has to do with a change in the priority of planes in the air and ground or if the movement of airplanes on (larger) airports had been finetuned.
07:05:03 <Maki> I just have no idea where to find more information and the one-line wiki explanation doesn't help.
07:07:54 <Forked> One could always compile it, or use the nightly build
07:08:37 <Maki> If one had the know-how. I can read code, but I am notoriously bad at compiling from source.
07:08:52 <Maki> But seriously. Isn't there an online archive of these things somewhere?
07:10:45 <Maki> Forked: Will that include descriptions as to what r17338 means exactly? Like what got changed in what?
07:12:07 <Forked> 17338: -Feature(tte): Add extra entry points for all airports so planes don't make strange turns when entering the holding stack
07:12:22 <Maki> You got that out of there?
07:13:24 <Forked> looks like there are several airport/plane-related things in the commits right before 17338 as well
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07:13:58 <Maki> Now we're getting somewhere. I didn't know of this
07:16:36 <Forked> Yexo: yes, it's your own fault for making commits :)
07:18:48 <Maki> So basically that deals with movement patterns. Not so much the priority.
07:19:03 <Yexo> I haven't seen any requiest for changng the priority before
07:19:16 <Maki> I'm that kind of person, no worries.
07:19:52 <Yexo> what is it that you want changing exactly? First land all planes and move them to the hangar before any other plane is allowed to take off?
07:20:44 <Maki> Well, yes and no. Basically I end up early in the game with several airports where there might be a 10-plane holding queue. This can be rather problematic and when you look at real airports they tend to want to make that queue smaller while still allowing airplanes on the ground to fly away again.
07:21:10 <Maki> Small airports will tend to let one plane land, unload, go service at the hangar if needed and then take off, before allowing another plane to land.
07:21:51 <Maki> It would be better to have one airplane land, move to the gate, then allow another to land and move to the gate. The first airplane can then move to hangar or take off, allowing another to take its place.
07:22:23 <Maki> Considering I'm using 0.6.0 this might have already changed..
07:27:09 <Maki> I'm not sure how the priority system works for OpenTTD, so I can't come up with an idea for how to implement this. o.o
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08:14:18 <Maki> Happy Tuesday, planetmaker
08:40:02 <planetmaker> Rubidium: you should fix your URL quote in the forums
08:41:48 <Rubidium> stupid forum not allowing [] in urls :(
09:01:41 <Rubidium> ah bugger... no "Happy Tuesday" for me... and I wanted to say that I was on Christmas Island and that is was Wednesday
09:01:55 <Rubidium> (or almost wednesday at least)
09:27:31 <TrueBrain> [08:16] <Yexo> did I see my name? <- ghehe, now I don't see my name, but
09:27:37 <TrueBrain> tricky thing ... :p
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10:00:01 <Rubidium> oh look, that are numbers that are interesting :)
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10:27:38 <bartavelle> might be interesting to you anyway :/
10:28:23 <Rubidium> the tsa is stupid anyway
10:29:37 <Rubidium> e.g. what's the most common explosive-ish?
10:30:14 * Forked overloads a fully charged laptop battery
10:31:41 <Rubidium> getting explosion grade alcohol might be tricky, and I didn't think of gas.. but getting that in a plane is quite tricky
10:32:07 <Rubidium> but Forked is right... laptop batteries are quite hazardous
10:32:37 <peter1138> yeah but a bottle of water might be dangerous too
10:33:17 <Rubidium> although the most dangerous, health wise, is that you can't smoke in aircraft anymore
10:35:55 <Rubidium> which meant that they do now recirculate more of the air instead of having to presurise outside air (resulting in less fuel usage)
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12:24:52 <peter1138> hmm, is there a linux filesystem that will do compression?
12:25:16 <Noldo_> peter1138: apparently no
12:27:29 <Noldo_> well, there seem to be some on top of fuse
12:27:50 <bartavelle> there are read only filesystems
12:29:43 <bartavelle> if btrfs works it should do it, as it is supposed to have all the features you need
12:30:04 <bartavelle> or you could finally use actual OSes :p
12:30:19 <blathijs> Woah, can you tell _all_ the features peter1138 needs just from that one line? :-)
12:30:37 <bartavelle> btrfs has them all :)
12:30:44 <bartavelle> it is supposed to be the linux zfs
12:30:58 <blathijs> bartavelle: What's an actual OS in your opinion? Solaris? :-)
12:31:18 <bartavelle> but zfs seems to be the best FS
12:31:29 <blathijs> bartavelle: Too bad, I was hoping for a nice flamewar :-p
12:31:38 <bartavelle> and solaris has really cool features that will never appear in linux
12:31:45 <bartavelle> like it is actually made for people who work
12:32:50 <blathijs> That's a bit of a meta-feature :-p
12:33:23 <bartavelle> one great feature of solaris is that when you use the "top" function, you do not notice that it is top who is taking all the CPU
12:33:50 <blathijs> Eh? Is that a feature?
12:34:04 <bartavelle> my phrase is poorly worded
12:34:22 <bartavelle> with a busy linux server, top always come on top of the cpu usage, because it is a ressource hog
12:34:32 <peter1138> oh, yeah, i need read/write :)
12:34:54 <bartavelle> peter1138, solaris or windows offer this feature :p
12:36:21 <blathijs> bartavelle: I think hiding a process that _is_ taking CPU is really not a solution. Making top not eat CPU would (though I have not seen this particular problem on my linux systems, IIRC)
12:36:33 <bartavelle> it is not hiding it
12:36:39 <bartavelle> solaris top is not a ressource hog
12:37:12 <bartavelle> because their OS is (arguably) designed for people with real server workload
12:37:17 <bartavelle> this was however a troll attempt
12:37:25 <bartavelle> not to be taken too seriously (but it is true)
12:37:51 <peter1138> blathijs, reminds of the people who complain that pulseaudio takes a lot of cpu... and that mixing should be done in kernel because it takes less
12:39:05 <Rubidium> the only problem I have with top is that it occasionally says that xmms is using 9999% CPU, which is kinda hard with only 2 cores
12:39:28 <Eddi|zuHause> temporary overclocking!
12:39:29 <bartavelle> cloud computing is now !
12:41:18 <Eddi|zuHause> so... how can i hijack the seti@home network to do my video processing? :p
12:41:27 * fjb sees a lot of noncomputing clouds at the sky.
12:42:01 <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: just that you are incapable of seeing the computation doesn't mean there's no computing going on
12:42:39 <Eddi|zuHause> after all, they could be busy trying to calculate The Question
12:44:18 <TrueBrain> [13:37] <bartavelle> not to be taken too seriously (but it is true) <- best quote ever
12:44:19 <Rubidium> the 'real' question is whether the computer for that calculation would scale Moore-ian
12:44:31 <TrueBrain> (it wasn't a compliment)
12:44:43 <bartavelle> well this is what happens when trolling
12:44:56 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: I already know the answer ;)
12:45:20 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: exactly ;)
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12:46:07 <Rubidium> because then those 7.5 million years would be more like 50 years
12:46:34 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: or they already considered that in their estimate...
13:05:25 <peter1138> hmm, so there's possibly a fuse solution...
13:36:29 <blathijs> peter1138: Yeah, because everyone knows the kernel runs in kernel^Wturbo mode!!
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14:09:15 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... does PBI not change arctic gold mine/bank? or is there a special arctic PBI that i must load?
14:12:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i seem to successfully have hacked alpinew.grf to skip the industry part, but how do i make the houses accept food?
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14:25:26 <peter1138> hmm, depots and tunnels
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14:29:50 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: Force them by law.
14:29:52 <Eddi|zuHause> station-like depots and bendy tunnels!
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15:18:53 <Belugas> + return begin <= check && check <= end; <-- for me, this is so strange to read...
15:20:38 <Noldo_> why check needs to before both?
15:21:55 <Belugas> it's not that, Noldo_... it's the begin end stuff... Pascal keywords in C syntax
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15:53:37 <Katje> can anyone explain how water towers work ?
15:55:29 <Eddi|zuHause> they need to be built on top of a house
15:56:57 <Belugas> exactly like the banks
15:57:13 <Belugas> in fact, they have quite a lot in common...
16:00:03 <planetmaker> Nekomaster is such an idiot
16:02:10 <Eddi|zuHause> how did you get to this sudden conclusion?
16:02:46 <planetmaker> Let's rather say: he recently strongly emphasised that impression yet another time
16:07:17 <Belugas> i need to repeat something i said before : he is NOT representative of the Canadian population
16:08:11 <fjb> Nobody is useless. He can always serve as a bad example.
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16:51:38 <Wheatbix> {just a random question would there be able to get some way to build subways or something} (Like stations built in tunnels)
16:53:03 <Rubidium> as in eventually or as in now?
16:53:33 <Wheatbix> eventualy (i dont think there is anyway now)
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16:54:14 <Rubidium> then the answer is possibly
16:54:18 <Wheatbix> sry i am fairly new to the whole open TTD thing (i am a long time fan of TTD though and love what yous are doing here)
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16:55:18 <Wheatbix> that would be great if there could be subways (ishall look foward to hopefully seeing it oneday)
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17:05:05 <fjb> Using just a "." is easier than using "{" and "}" etc..
17:05:22 <fjb> At least it is way easier to read.
17:09:06 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18430 /extra/ottd_grf/split/ (chars.nfo chars.pcx openttd.nfo): [OTTD_GRF] -Add: some missing latin-ish characters from the OpenGFX set so we get less people complain about the OS chosing an unreadable font
17:09:27 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18431 /trunk/bin/data/ (5 files): -Add: some missing latin-ish characters from the OpenGFX set so we get less people complain about the OS chosing an unreadable font
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17:36:48 <Eddi|zuHause> why does the second not reference the first? [as in "forward port: r18430" or something]
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17:58:30 <Chrill> people here speak German, yes?
17:58:48 <Sacro> there are real live germans in here
17:59:08 <Belugas> some can speak germans, but none do it in this channel publicly
17:59:21 <Belugas> apart when singing, which is not speaking...
17:59:27 <Rubidium> if speaking German is the same as saying German... maybe
17:59:41 <Chrill> well, I would need some quick assistance for a friend with her homework in German
18:00:20 * Eddi|zuHause generally does not react well on nudging
18:00:25 <Chrill> they're told to look the translations up online
18:00:46 <Eddi|zuHause> so. what's the question anyway?
18:00:50 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: aww :( bitte?
18:00:59 <Chrill> Well, there are a few setences I'd like to find a decent translation to
18:01:03 <Chrill> it's about sporting and activities
18:01:12 <Chrill> so for example "What do you do in your spare time?"
18:01:15 * planetmaker is also off to the Christmas market - eating "Grünkohl und Bregenwurst" and having a few cups of hot, spiced wine and bowl
18:01:23 <Chrill> "What are you interests?" / "Why do you like your interests?"
18:01:44 <Hirundo> Add "Where can I find google translator?" to that list
18:01:54 <Chrill> Google Translator is quite crap at times
18:02:10 <fjb> Google translator is not worth a look.
18:02:15 <Eddi|zuHause> so "Ich möchte diesen Teppich nicht kaufen" will generally get you a beer ;)
18:03:29 <Eddi|zuHause> Chrill: so is the question now "what are the translations" or "where can i find the translations"?
18:03:36 <frosch123> what's the point of looking up translations online?
18:03:36 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: But only if you are Japanese.
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18:04:15 <Chrill> Eddi|zuHause, if someone would know the translations, I'd be very grateful if one could translate them for me
18:04:23 <Chrill> I've tried Google Translator but it doesn't really cut it, now does it?
18:04:40 <Eddi|zuHause> what does google translator say?
18:05:01 <TinoDidriksen> It's fine for reading text. You can usually make out the sense of things.
18:05:16 <Chrill> Warum mgen Sie Ihre Interessen?
18:05:25 <Chrill> What is it you like with your interests
18:05:42 <Eddi|zuHause> that's fairly accurate
18:06:23 <TinoDidriksen> A bit odd to ask what you like about your interests in such a general fashion...
18:06:54 <Chrill> they're stuyding German and the test they have tomorrow is all about spare time activites and hobbies and interests
18:07:24 <TinoDidriksen> Ah, so school conversations...they're never quite right.
18:07:42 <Eddi|zuHause> TinoDidriksen: well, that was fairly obvious ;)
18:08:09 <Chrill> but then again, I've built all my English knowledge from scratch through school :P
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18:11:03 <Eddi|zuHause> a person with no nick!
18:11:15 * Eddi|zuHause is scared of these people
18:12:07 <Rubidium> 101 uses for a wee on a wii?
18:15:03 <mib_440n3j> nope thERE are not that many
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18:45:23 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: translators * r18432 /trunk/src/lang/ (portuguese.txt spanish.txt):
18:45:23 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:23 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: portuguese - 1 changes by JayCity
18:45:23 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: spanish - 2 changes by Terkhen
18:45:35 <fjb> We are having strange guests today...
18:50:52 <Alberth> should I leave again?
18:51:30 <Rubidium> Alberth: yes, just before going to bed though :)
18:53:01 * fjb wasn't talking about Alberth.
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19:16:39 <Chrill> Google Translator failed to translate this for me, would anyone else possibly know the German translation? "Where does your spare time activitites take place?"
19:16:43 <SineDeviance> i'm just curious... is there any advantage to using electric signals over semaphore?
19:17:30 <SineDeviance> okeis. thanks :D
19:18:41 <Alberth> there are probably a few additional NewGRF files with signal graphics if you get bored of the standard ones
19:18:58 <SineDeviance> yeah i'm already using the combined north american signals
19:19:38 <Sacro> Chrill: Wo bist dien whatever?
19:19:47 <Sacro> Wo bist i think is where is
19:20:27 <Chrill> Wo bist dien spare time activites? :p
19:20:35 <frosch123> Wo finden Deine/Ihre Freizeitaktivitäten statt
19:20:44 <Sacro> not done german in 9 years
19:20:46 <Chrill> thank you, frosch123 :)
19:21:51 <Eddi|zuHause> Chrill: what kind of german course
19:22:08 <Eddi|zuHause> is this, that it gives no hints about how to translate stuff?
19:23:08 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean, to correctly translate into a foreign language you need a big active vocabulary and excellent knowledge of grammar
19:23:13 <frosch123> yeah, lots of questions with no answer :p
19:23:19 <Eddi|zuHause> it's one of the most difficult tasks at all
19:23:42 <Chrill> Eddi|zuHause, the teacher has given them a test on subjects not in the book
19:23:42 <SineDeviance> okay i have one more question... how do i disable gridlines?
19:23:49 <Chrill> nor have these things been discussed in class
19:23:53 * Sacro has a tatoo that says "The Bart, The"
19:24:00 <Chrill> so they're more or less fucked and I'm trying to help in whatever way I can
19:24:45 <Chrill> they're supposed to sit about and talk with each other in grammatically correct German for 30 minutes tomorrow
19:24:53 <Chrill> and they've studied German an hour a week since August 2009
19:25:50 <frosch123> but then you also need answers, right? or does only one ask, and the others have to answer?
19:26:10 <Eddi|zuHause> well, alright, we did have to make descriptions about ourselves in english after half a year of learning
19:26:15 <Chrill> but I think Google Translator helped them on "I like to ***"
19:26:29 <Chrill> "I like to swim/walk/run/play football"
19:26:43 <Chrill> she's only sending questions my way that she cannot find out herself :P
19:29:06 <Sacro> Chrill: Mein Luftkissenfahrzeug ist voller Aale
19:29:51 <Chrill> also, she sends thanks to you all for the help
19:30:13 <Sacro> Chrill: Min svävare är full med ål
19:30:22 <Chrill> My hovercraft is full of eels
19:30:55 <Chrill> hey Sacro, Immah teach you some Swedish
19:31:08 <Sacro> also Ich bin kein Mitglied dieser Konferenz, dennoch möchte ich einen Pinguin.
19:31:32 <Chrill> skip the first 20 or so seconds
19:36:05 <Sacro> Wenn hinter Fliegen Fliegen fliegen, fliegen Fliegen Fliegen hinterher.
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19:51:17 <fjb> Sacro: Wenn Fliegen hinter Fliegen fliegen, fliegen Fliegen hinter Fliegen her.
19:53:26 <fjb> Sacro: Try: Brautkleid bleibt Brautkleid und Blaukraut bleibt Blaukraut.
19:54:22 <blathijs> I was about to complain about that. :-p
19:54:56 <frosch123> what wood would a woodchuck chuck, if a woodchuck could chuck wood
19:55:30 * Sacro can offend many people at once
19:55:43 <Sacro> like calling the norwegian girl at uni dutch/swedish/danish
19:56:29 <fjb> We always knew you have to learn lots about girls.
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19:59:34 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: frosch * r18433 /trunk/src/ (date.cpp lang/english.txt town_gui.cpp): -Codechange: Show different texts in town GUI when the town does not need food the whole year to grow.
20:06:00 <Belugas> yeah... too much to learn about girls. Better start learning 'bout women instead...
20:06:46 <fjb> They will be women till Sacro learned...
20:09:43 <SineDeviance> long time no see
20:09:47 *** SineDeviance is now known as DarkED
20:11:54 <DarkED> i'm playing openttd again, obviously
20:12:18 <DarkED> i was wondering if you still play online?
20:12:23 <DarkED> i kinda miss those games
20:12:39 <KenjiE20> yup, not peak atm though
20:12:53 <DarkED> what's not peak? the community
20:12:56 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18434 /trunk/src/currency.cpp: -Change [FS#565]: use z?\197?\130 instead of zl for the Polish Zloty.
20:13:15 <KenjiE20> as in time spent playing isn't at peak
20:13:30 <DarkED> i cant play as much either
20:13:36 <DarkED> still it gets boring playing alone
20:13:46 <DarkED> i was thinking about running a server again
20:15:59 <DarkED> huh... the ETG channel is still there
20:16:52 <DarkED> yeah dont go to ETG much anymore
20:17:20 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
20:18:13 <Belugas> Excessively Tedious Game
20:18:29 <Belugas> Electronic Tempo Generator
20:19:26 <Belugas> Everywhere They Grind
20:20:50 <KenjiE20> heh, that pic's like what? 2/3 year old now :)
20:21:23 <KenjiE20> that's just when it was uploaded to wpress
20:22:49 <KenjiE20> pretty cure I'd seen it previous to that
20:42:42 <frosch123> iirc it is by richk
20:43:14 <frosch123> there is some topic about fake screenshots somewhere on the forums
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20:48:08 *** Guest773 is now known as planetmaker
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20:51:02 *** Guest782 is now known as planetmaker
20:56:56 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18435 /trunk/src/roadveh_gui.cpp: -Fix (r18136): articulated road vehicles weren't properly drawn in the vehicle list/details windows
21:15:24 <sparr> there's no inherent reason you couldn't replace the rendering engine of openttd with something fully 3d, textured, etc. it would probably only take a few dozen hours of coding... and thousands of hours of producing models and artwork
21:17:27 * frosch123 hopes he only forgot the quotes
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21:21:04 <sparr> who forgot what quotes?
21:28:22 <glx> sparr: feel free to code it :)
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21:30:54 <Eddi|zuHause> sparr: "one hour of coding" costs approximately 100€, and with "coding" you still get no models and textures...
21:31:40 <planetmaker> hm... I still didn't quite understand why a static newgrf cannot decide upon sprites via an action2 depending upon the loading state.
21:31:42 <Xaroth> sparr: define 'few dozen'
21:32:07 <planetmaker> Problem is, if another newgrf overrides the original sprite via actionA or alike?
21:32:16 <Xaroth> and does that include doing the 'should-do' documents like use case, functional design and the sorts
21:32:37 <planetmaker> But that's something I also already do, if I add a climate dependence via a 7/9 conditional inclusion
21:35:13 <frosch123> planetmaker: the is a hell lot that is triggered by action3
21:37:03 <planetmaker> I know I asked it before... can you give me an example which breaks? :-)
21:37:23 <frosch123> action3 triggeres the vehicle being associated to a certain grf
21:37:34 <planetmaker> probably a newgrf disabling it?
21:37:51 <planetmaker> oh... ok. I disable disabling it then?
21:38:47 <frosch123> of course it is possible to work all around that and check everywhere if a static grf is involved, but ... well .. a lot is possible
21:39:20 <planetmaker> well, yeah. I don't want to put anything on any newgrf author. OpenGFX has to know and deal with that and all contingencies
21:39:58 <frosch123> and then all that stuff inside the action123 chain, like randomactions, callbacks, ...
21:40:30 <planetmaker> well. I don't want random stuff. I just want: if loaded, sprite 1, otherwise sprite 2
21:40:41 <planetmaker> nothing fancy, you know :-)
21:40:54 <planetmaker> no game mechanic changes
21:43:27 <planetmaker> I basically wonder: where do static grfs break - if OpenTTD produces desyncs, if only game state differences (as opposed to graphical differences) are important
21:48:25 <frosch123> planetmaker: problem is that they influence other grfs
21:50:07 <frosch123> currently a action3 triggeres the vehicle to be reserved for the newgrf defining the action3 (engine override manager), and it also triggers all those "global" properties to only apply locally
21:50:36 <frosch123> then there is stuff like livery overrides, which cause other action3 to be called only in some cases, ....
21:51:05 <frosch123> grfs reading the grfid of another vehicle
21:51:39 <frosch123> grfs enabling/disabling callbacks, custom graphics, ....
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21:52:50 <frosch123> you can continue infinitely. fact is, currently the rules for "static" newgrfs are quite simple, and it adds a totally new complexity to add less-simple actions
21:52:53 <planetmaker> ok... Let's assume a grf which wants to add some callbacks to a (default) wagon. That would then fail, if I have already in my static newgrf some action3/2/1 attached to it - or rather I'd have that wagon then twice, right?
21:53:22 <planetmaker> as it'd then make the wagon local to both?
21:53:23 <frosch123> that already depends on the "multiple newgrf" setting
21:53:31 <planetmaker> assuming engine pool on.
21:53:42 <planetmaker> in above argument I made with my last two statements
21:53:47 <frosch123> likely you would have to load the static newgrf last, and only apply the action3 if there is no other action3 present already
22:08:09 <planetmaker> thanks yet another time, frosch123 :-) I guess I'll now have to sleep over it :-)
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22:09:18 <fjb> My industry town grows a lot waste collection points (compared to the number of houses). But I would not want to live there anyway.
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22:43:06 <Eddi|zuHause> question: has anybody ever tried alpine climate with opengfx?
22:43:39 <Eddi|zuHause> alpine grf doesn't seem to contain the actual houses, only the snowy roofs
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22:50:58 <sparr> Eddi|zuHause: nothing about your statement alters mine...
22:51:18 <sparr> Xaroth: 30-40 hours, maybe?
22:51:47 <sparr> assuming a coder already familiar with the openttd graphics system, and with a tile-based 3d rendering engine
22:52:00 <Eddi|zuHause> sparr: so when can we expect your 3000-4000 euro?
22:52:16 <sparr> why would you think I want or am able to fund it?
22:52:39 <Eddi|zuHause> well, "somebody" has to...
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22:53:18 <sparr> the 2d graphics are plenty for most players and devs, i would think, otherwise someone would have done it already
22:54:13 <Eddi|zuHause> sparr: so what do you actually want?
22:54:36 <sparr> I am not sure what you mean
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23:08:03 <Rubidium> sparr: it's just that you came with a statement about 2 hours ago that isn't a reply to anybody and doesn't make any sense at all
23:12:24 <Xaroth> sparr: hah, 1 workweek worth of hours? or 1 day for 5 people?
23:12:38 <Xaroth> try a few weeks for multiple people
23:17:39 <Eddi|zuHause> i actually do want to see a 300loc patch for 3d-support ;)
23:20:26 * SmatZ gives Eddi|zuHause a 'k'
23:21:36 <Rubidium> and only when it's written for KDE :)
23:21:39 <Eddi|zuHause> only in kde projects ;)
23:25:03 <sparr> Rubidium: I was replying to the photo-realistic fake screenshot
23:26:17 <Rubidium> even then a few dozen hours is quite off based on the number of people that already tried to do so and where we never heard of again
23:26:19 <Eddi|zuHause> afair there's an opengl-blitter somewhere, but it has nothing to do with actual 3d support
23:32:45 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18436 /trunk/src/ai/ai_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#3357]: unselect an AI in the AI Settings window when it falls out of the range of active AIs
23:33:55 <Eddi|zuHause> usability request: when clicking on "new town" in the scenario editor, unfocus the town name edit box
23:34:01 <PeterT> is it possible to delete a statue built in honor of the company?
23:34:24 <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: the query tool will tell you
23:35:52 <Eddi|zuHause> (or shift+dynamite)
23:36:12 <SmatZ> or actually trying to do so :-p
23:36:43 <SmatZ> (didn't Belugas want to do something with that? :)
23:37:53 <SmatZ> PeterT asking here so he can aswer the question at tt-forums :-D
23:38:33 <PeterT> KenjiE20: Wake up, you have some new material to put into your quote book.
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