IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-11-25
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00:00:37 <R0b0t1> Hey, sorry for the semi-stupid question... But I updated (supposedly) to the revision the openttd server is using, and then tried make in that folder
00:00:44 <R0b0t1> however, the binary in ./bin does not get updated
00:01:43 <Rubidium> probably something had opened the binary which made it fail to copy the new binary there
00:01:52 <Xaroth> make install ?
00:02:20 <Xaroth> or make clean before normal make
00:03:04 <Rubidium> manually copy the binary from objs/release to bin and see if that helps
00:03:35 <Rubidium> by the way, how did you update what kind of version?
00:03:53 <Rubidium> e.g. if you tried updating from 0.7.2 to 0.7.3 with some 'svn up' that's not going to work
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00:12:44 <thomas001> hi,do i need to supply fertalizer to food plantations to make them produce any fruit? current production without fertalizer is 8 at a normal level...
00:14:24 <frosch123> you should at least mention the industry set you are using :p
00:17:48 <thomas001> oh ecs agricutlure vector...sorry
00:18:22 <frosch123> then it is likely a production booster, and you need to supply some to get reasonable output
00:18:35 <frosch123> never player it myself though
00:19:39 <thomas001> oh ok,thanks
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00:20:47 <frosch123> but transporting some fruit with a good rating might also help a bit
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00:22:55 <thomas001> d'oh
00:23:08 <thomas001> food production seems to depend on the date ;)
00:23:12 <thomas001> *fruit
00:23:32 <thomas001> how annoying
00:24:24 <frosch123> ecs has lots of parameters, maybe you can change that
00:24:49 <thomas001> that whould be cheating ;)
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00:26:52 <planetmaker> parameters are not cheating.
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00:27:27 <planetmaker> They are there to make life nice for those few guys (and girls) who actually read the readme ;-)
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00:30:45 <frosch123> night
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02:47:50 <PeterT> night
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09:50:27 <bartavelle> hello
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10:12:04 <fjb> moin
10:17:53 <Eddi|zuHause> wäääh
10:17:54 <Eddi|zuHause> > Error: Assertion failed at line 1130 of /home/johannes/spiele/OpenTTDx/cargodist/src/economy.cpp: v->load_unload_time_rem != 0
10:18:19 <petern> pfft, that's not trunk ;p
10:18:29 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, it's not...
10:18:47 <Rubidium> and even fonsinchen isn't in here
10:18:58 <Eddi|zuHause> how dare he!
10:20:41 <Eddi|zuHause> can i post-mortem-debug this crash somehow?
10:20:43 <fjb> Just remove that assertion. :-)
10:21:44 <Rubidium> not really as you need to know what caused that variable to be 0 at that time
10:22:20 <Rubidium> and the crash dump (if you have one; ulimit -c IIRC) only contains that the variable is 0
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10:48:57 <petern> hmm, is there a c++ library for dealing with ini files?
10:49:28 <petern> heh, sdl_config
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10:54:54 <Rubidium> ini.cpp? :)
10:56:48 <petern> hehe
10:59:32 <Sacro> curse you makefile
10:59:36 <Sacro> why do you keep eating my lex file
10:59:55 <Sacro> flex -o acw.lex.c lex.c
11:00:02 <petern> Rubidium, it still contains ottd specific bits doesn't it?
11:00:04 <Sacro> works fine if i run it, eats my input if the Makefile runs it...
11:00:58 <Rubidium> petern: true, only minor bits
11:01:29 <planetmaker> Sacro: then check your rules in the makefile
11:01:58 <Sacro> planetmaker: it's a very basic makefile\
11:02:11 <Sacro> acw: acw.y acw.lex bison -d acw.y flex -o acw.lex.c acw.lex gcc -o acw acw.lex.c -lfl -lm
11:02:14 <Sacro> erm
11:02:17 <Sacro> hmm
11:03:12 <Sacro>
11:03:15 <Sacro> is my makefile
11:03:22 <Sacro> and \o/ for the number
11:03:51 <JVassie> lol
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11:58:27 <dihedral> Sacro, use maven2 + the maven flex mojo ^^
11:58:53 <planetmaker> Sacro: I don't know flex. But my guess would be to swap the two filename parameters.
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12:00:23 <dihedral> planetmaker, there are a few untranslated german strings ;-)
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12:00:36 <dihedral> eh i mean, yeah you know what i mean
12:01:05 <planetmaker> :-) You mean in the comic houses set?
12:01:26 <planetmaker> I guess 11 untranslated ones.
12:03:19 <dihedral> 5 left
12:03:27 <dihedral> i did the easy ones :-P
12:04:18 <planetmaker> Gimme the whole diff for all 11 :-)
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12:05:18 <planetmaker> Not sure that I care too much for translations so far - even though the translation system is the easiest I ever made for a grf ;-)
12:05:36 <planetmaker> too much changes still :-)
12:06:02 <dihedral> you want to tell me fund a town stings are from a grf?
12:06:50 <planetmaker> oh. OpenTTD strings :-)
12:07:07 <dihedral> what did you expect?
12:07:09 <dihedral> :-P
12:07:16 <petern> town stings?
12:07:19 <planetmaker> Comic houses translations, of course ;-)
12:07:25 <dihedral> pfft
12:07:35 <dihedral> i have not looked at any openttd stuff in a while
12:07:51 <dihedral> just popped in to the translator website
12:09:16 <dihedral> planetmaker, you have a link where i can swee what you are working on?
12:10:20 <planetmaker> changed the other "found town" strings.
12:10:55 <planetmaker> dihedral:
12:13:00 <dihedral> oh man that is nice
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12:13:15 * dihedral feels like playing again :-P
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12:15:30 <planetmaker> :-)
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12:17:40 <dihedral> now "all" you need to do is trees, ground sprites, trains, cars, ships, rails, airports, bus stops, docs, industries, water, stations, ....
12:18:16 <dihedral> but perhaps you can find a way to simply 'convert' the existing spirtes :-P
12:18:21 <petern> planetmaker, 1st or 3rd
12:18:43 <petern> prefer 3rd
12:19:17 <dihedral> i prefer second :-P
12:21:06 <petern> nobody asked you
12:21:16 <planetmaker> he... Opinions are as diverse as there are people, I guess. Though dihedral is the first to say "2nd", I think :-)
12:21:48 <dihedral> petern, who cares?
12:22:13 <petern> nobody cares
12:24:38 <planetmaker> dihedral: I hope to get the whole comic set sprites. So... I'm not sure what to expect, though
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12:45:56 <petern> hmm, found a headerfile implementation
12:46:04 <petern> it's... 120KB... ouch
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13:02:29 <thomas001> hi what do you think about a design like to manage traffic of the station, which comes from many different directions?
13:06:16 <Eddi|zuHause> ask again when you increased the number of trains tenfold
13:07:31 <thomas001> = your design sucks,but you will see that yourself as traffic increases?
13:08:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think roundabouts work well
13:08:56 <thomas001> why?
13:09:36 <Eddi|zuHause> too much blocking potential when switching lanes, and complete gridlock potential with a lot of trains
13:10:17 <Eddi|zuHause> you mix incoming and outgoing traffic from the station, try to keep them separated
13:11:40 <thomas001> hmm ok,i thought its a nice way to avoid building big junctions
13:12:48 <Eddi|zuHause> lots of traffic planners fell into that trap :p
13:14:33 <thomas001> we have some really nice street roundabouts here ;)
13:17:22 <Eddi|zuHause> i loathe and despise roundabouts
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13:27:13 * Rubidium wonders when people start making roundabouts like in,4.186215&spn=0.00115,0.003095&z=19
13:28:34 <thomas001> Rubidium, thats a spiral? ;)
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13:29:17 <Rubidium> kindof yes
13:31:36 <thomas001> mi favourite is . it always fun to drive there ;)
13:32:34 <Rubidium> that one got traffic lights... then they're no fun anymore
13:34:33 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, it was way more fun 10 years ago ;
13:34:36 <Eddi|zuHause> ;)
13:35:41 <Eddi|zuHause> they're even done with the construction work by now... it's really boring
13:40:53 <petern> that's pretty odd
13:41:08 <thomas001> i like the arrows on the highway above it,telling the cars they are going in the right direction ;)
13:41:51 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know how often i have gone over those bridges, i never noticed those "arrows" :p
13:42:07 <thomas001> next time you will ;)
13:42:21 <thomas001> or the picture is outdated
13:44:45 <Eddi|zuHause> must be > 1 year old, because they're rebuilding the bus station on the top right of the picture
13:46:26 <thomas001> so Eddi|zuHause how does this roundabout handle high traffic? :D
13:47:32 <Eddi|zuHause> i believe it once was one of the highest traffic locations in europe ;)
13:47:51 <Eddi|zuHause> but you had on average like 3 accidents per day...
13:48:13 <Eddi|zuHause> and now they put up traffic lights
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13:48:29 <thomas001> the street planner must have gone mad,nobody understands his pretty roundabout ;)
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13:49:15 <Eddi|zuHause> lots of street planners have gone mad on this junction over time :p
13:49:36 <Eddi|zuHause> like 50 years ago, this was a 12-way-roundabout :p
13:49:57 <Eddi|zuHause> they reduced that to 5 by building those bridges ;)
13:51:00 <thomas001> it whould be nice if you could build this in openttd ;)
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13:55:07 <petern> GAH
13:55:14 <petern> this bloody library deals in char * :s
13:56:07 <Rubidium> what did you expect? java.lang.String?
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13:57:44 <thomas001> wchar_t* ;)
14:00:45 <Eddi|zuHause> i really don't know why pascal-strings are not more common... (i.e. length-prefixed instead of 0-terminated)
14:02:19 <thomas001> c++ strings can be viewed like that
14:09:22 <petern> it's a c++ library
14:09:25 <petern> i'd expect std::string
14:09:38 <Sacro> dihedral: is maven easy?
14:09:54 <SpComb> doesn't every C++ framework have it's own string type that's better than std::string?
14:10:55 <petern> apparently
14:11:33 <thomas001> SpComb, better is more like "better" ;)
14:15:13 <petern> qt has QString, heh
14:15:25 <petern> but i hate qt anyway, so that's no problem
14:15:40 <TinoDidriksen> ICU has UnicodeString
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14:20:26 <Belugas> good morning
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14:25:45 <thomas001> TinoDidriksen, i don't like UTF-16 strings as internal representation
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14:29:05 <TinoDidriksen> I don't care what the internal representation is, so long as it works and can output in any encoding I want...which ICU can.
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14:37:13 <thomas001> TinoDidriksen, you need to take care of surrogates in utf-16,which is annoying
14:37:23 <TinoDidriksen> ICU does that for me.
14:38:09 <TinoDidriksen> You need to take care of combining marks in any encoding anyway...even UTF-32 glyphs can span multiple elements.
14:38:45 <dihedral> <Sacro> dihedral: is maven easy? <- define easy??
14:38:47 <TinoDidriksen> No Unicode format is safe to access as single elements.
14:39:14 <dihedral> maven is not small, and it can get quite complex
14:39:20 <dihedral> but a simple setup is easy yes
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15:00:01 <Terkhen> hello
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15:03:44 <ezra> what is the dev channel?
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15:05:55 <dihedral> ezra, i do not think you want to go there :-P
15:06:08 <dihedral> because if you did, you would not remain in there for very long
15:06:15 <dihedral> at least i would not expect you to
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15:07:41 <ezra> dihedral: why, is it full of bots talking to each other?
15:08:06 <dihedral> no, you will most likely just be kicked if you entered
15:08:28 <ezra> do they not want new developers to get involved?
15:08:30 <dihedral> besides, this is the official #openttd channel, this is where you can meet the devs ;-)
15:08:32 <frosch123> let's say, this is the dev channel
15:09:00 <dihedral> ezra, i think it's up to them to decide who they consider an addition to the development team ;-)
15:09:04 <dihedral> frosch123, nice one :-P
15:09:22 <ezra> seems a little inhospitable
15:10:12 <dihedral> well... not everybody can simply come and say they want to be on the dev team and expect to be acceppted with open arms
15:10:21 <dihedral> it takes a bit more than that
15:10:40 <dihedral> does not mean you cannot fix bugs and hand in your patches
15:11:22 <ezra> i thought I'd start by lurking and seeing what kinds of issues were being discussed
15:11:26 <ezra> maybe learn something about the codebase
15:11:33 <dihedral> good start
15:12:13 <dihedral> another good place to 'lurk' is (the openttd section esp.) and
15:12:37 <ezra> k
15:18:55 <planetmaker> and everywhere the same people lurk :-P
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15:20:17 <dihedral> odd :-P
15:21:00 <dihedral> but i must say it's cute to see someone enter the channel (for the first time) and straight away request to talk to the devs because one wants to join the team :-P
15:21:15 <dihedral> and only after that mention one could learn about the codebase
15:21:30 <dihedral> well, at least he/she/it knew the word 'codebase' :-D
15:21:37 <dihedral> way better than past experiences :-D
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15:50:16 <Belugas> ezra, you'll find more usefull infos in forums indeed ;) this room can be usefull sometimes, but not as much as forums
15:52:30 <ezra> Belugas: OK; I'll check out the forums then... another day.
15:52:53 * Forked < forum
15:53:50 <fjb> Forked is smaller than the forum?
15:54:01 <Forked> lesser than
15:54:02 <Belugas> [10:09] <ezra> seems a little inhospitable <--- would you expect anybody, perfect strangers to come in your home, just lurking in and there ?
15:54:05 <Belugas> heheh
15:54:43 <Rubidium> fjb: no, you have to dereference Forked first before you can do the comparison
15:55:44 <fjb> Rubidium: Thank you, I missed the *. But what is a dereferenced Forked like?
15:55:55 * Forked is not sure he likes where this is heading..
15:56:33 * Rubidium has no clue
15:56:35 <fjb> Now we know whta a referenced Forked is like.
15:56:46 <Forked> a smeghead? :)
15:58:00 <ezra> Belugas: on lots of channels, you can just join in. have you had lots of problems with trolls around here?
15:58:23 * Forked lurks
15:58:58 <Belugas> hint: on 115 people, only a handfull ones are really active
15:58:59 <Rubidium> ezra: basically yes, and 'stupid' conversations when trying to discuss something complex
15:59:11 <Belugas> that too :)
15:59:18 <petern> bah
15:59:23 <Forked> thats because people irc .. and people are idiots.. therefor most discussions on irc are stupid
15:59:28 <Belugas> like "hey, check that youtube"
15:59:42 <petern> "The collation (sorting) order used for sections and keys returned from iterators is NOT DEFINED. If collation order of the text is important then it should be done yourself by either supplying a replacement SI_STRLESS class"
15:59:56 <petern> by "NOT DEFINED" it means "alphabetical"
16:00:09 <petern> of course, i want it in the order specified in the config
16:00:18 <petern> maybe i should switch to this other ini lib...
16:01:21 <ezra> I've been really impressed by the #haskell channel on freenode. They have 600+ people there all the time, and the discussion is really relevant and productive
16:02:00 <ezra> they get trolls, but they almost deter them with love: they very energetically ask the troll questions until s/he gets frustrated
16:02:06 <ezra> almost like trolling the troll!
16:02:45 <petern> games bring out a different class of internet annoyance
16:02:57 <ezra> yeah, I suppose so
16:02:57 <Rubidium> #haskell has the benefit that most people there are coders in some sense
16:03:14 <Rubidium> #openttd is not that 'coder' centric
16:04:39 <fjb> But #openttd is also very helpfull in coding things like refreshing your C skills.
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16:15:24 <Belugas> that's for your container, petern?
16:17:01 * Belugas jsut had a "very nice" and "very productive" teaching session with a teenage underpaid american girl clerk trying to find out how to do a refund in our system
16:17:12 <Belugas> i just wanted to kick her big time
16:17:18 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18285 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 3 dirs): -Feature: show the expected arrival/departure dates in the timetable window. Based on work by PhilSophus.
16:17:40 <Belugas> learning curve is not steep, but you DO have to know how to learn, just a tiny little bit
16:18:09 <Forked> next time kick her, see how that goes :)
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16:20:54 <Xaroth> Belugas:
16:21:19 <Xaroth> last time somebody was being thick I printed that out and stapled it to his cublicle
16:21:23 <Xaroth> cubicle, even
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16:24:08 <Belugas> Xaroth, is it work safe?
16:24:14 <Belugas> really work safe?
16:24:14 <Xaroth> yes
16:24:45 <Xaroth> it's a xkcd ep, nice flow-chart for those not pc-savvy
16:24:53 <fjb> Teenage girl says it all.
16:25:52 <Belugas> lol
16:25:57 <Belugas> printed, Xaroth :D
16:26:37 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: frosch * r18286 /trunk/src/rail_gui.cpp: -Fix (r18280): Number of platforms and platform length start with 1.
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17:24:50 <Belugas> i almost forgot it was time for lunch box massacre
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17:41:43 <fjb> Poor lunch box.
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17:48:58 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18287 /trunk/src/network/network_content_gui.cpp: -Fix (r17841): a not properly updated list caused reading just freed memory which caused buttons to not work as they should
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18:10:12 <Xaroth> Belugas: I aim to please :)
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18:19:49 <Belugas> i aim and shoot
18:20:01 <Belugas> i like taking photos ;)
18:20:02 <Belugas> hehe
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18:35:50 <Xaroth> :)
18:36:26 <fjb> Poor photos get shot.
18:39:31 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i'm just scratching my head at r18285... wondering whether there's more to expect in that direction...
18:39:56 <SmatZ> what "more" would you expect?
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18:40:17 <Eddi|zuHause> like... more bits of the timetable management patch?
18:40:32 <SmatZ> thanks for answer :)
18:41:54 <Eddi|zuHause> synchronising the start times, spreading shared vehicles evenly, ...
18:42:35 <SmatZ> well, I don't know if there are further parts going to be included
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18:45:56 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: translators * r18288 /trunk/src/lang/ (13 files): (log message trimmed)
18:45:56 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:56 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: catalan - 3 changes by arnau
18:45:56 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: czech - 7 changes by SmatZ
18:45:56 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: dutch - 11 changes by habell
18:45:57 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: finnish - 19 changes by jpx_
18:45:57 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: french - 9 changes by glx
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20:31:36 <George> Hi.
20:31:54 <George> I try to make the code to skip parametrs on hard settings
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20:31:58 <George> // drop parameter to 0 if difficulty level is hard
20:31:58 <George> 32 * 9 07 A2 04 \7! 02 00 00 00 01
20:31:58 <George> 33 * 9 0D 00 \D= FF FF 00 00 00 00
20:32:17 <George> But forces the parametr to be always 0
20:32:27 <George> what am I doing wrong?
20:33:07 <Lakie> Shouldn't it be 09?
20:33:26 <Lakie> I thought Action7 was only done on load, and action9 more often, don't remember off hand though
20:34:29 <Lakie> Ah, wrong way round.
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20:43:15 <frosch123> <- yes, it has to be action 09
20:43:39 <frosch123> with 07 it is too late
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20:46:39 <Timbo> is there any where i can get hold of a prebuilt openttd exe (win32) that uses SDL?
20:47:27 <Rubidium> that's unlikely, why do you want to have a SDL build?
20:48:03 <Timbo> to test a bug in SDL i unwittingly introduced
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20:49:52 <Rubidium> maybe, oh so maybe, glx can quickly make a binary
20:50:33 <Rubidium> although I'm not quite sure whether it'll be statically linked or dynamically
20:50:51 <Timbo> i'd need it to be dynamic
20:50:53 <Timbo> tia
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20:51:33 <George> frosch123: Lakie: Thank you
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21:18:12 <Bubba_D> anyone able to help a computer-challenged individual with the openTTD, more specifically with being able to use and transport ECS
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21:22:00 <Bubba_D> hello?? anyone awake??
21:22:14 <Rubidium> yes
21:22:19 <KenjiE20> zzzzz
21:22:43 <Rubidium> ... but ... I don't know use ECS
21:23:28 <Rubidium> so no real reason for me to react, beside telling you that I won't be telling you the answer which isn't the answer you're looking for so it's totally useless
21:23:46 <Rubidium> maybe George knows enough of ECS to help you though
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21:23:51 <Bubba_D> hmmm... ok ty, lol
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21:26:30 <KenjiE20> quickest way to use ECS, would be to find the old wagons new cargos grf on the ingame content
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21:27:38 <Bubba_D> ok, should i place that above the ecs to make it work or after them?
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21:29:44 <KenjiE20> doubt it matters, these days, but beneath is the safe way iirc
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21:31:00 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18289 /trunk/src/toolbar_gui.cpp: -Codechange: if using RTL draw the toolbar in the reverse direction so the buttons overlap 'nicely'
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21:32:53 <Bubba_D> ty kenji, your assistance is appreciated
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21:33:54 <KenjiE20> there's an example ECS map/flow diagram floating around on the openttdcoop wiki too, if you need it
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21:46:12 <Prof_Frink> Nite_Owl!
21:46:15 <Cutter> what is the default font for the english language?
21:46:23 <Nite_Owl> Hello all
21:46:30 <Cutter> the default french font is usually unreadable
21:48:39 <Nite_Owl> Hello Prof_Frink
21:49:33 <Rubidium> the default font for english is the TTD font
21:49:48 <Rubidium> the default font for french is whatever your 'OS' tells us is the best
21:50:20 <Cutter> Rubidium: the TTD font has no support for accents?
21:51:07 <Rubidium> not for the crazy mu that's on your keyboard (OSK)
21:51:34 <Cutter> I beg your pardon?
21:51:56 <Rubidium> µ <- mu
21:52:05 <Cutter> is that all?
21:52:13 <Rubidium> yes
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21:52:44 <Cutter> what's the name of the TTD font for the config file?
21:52:58 <Rubidium> there isn't any
21:53:18 <Rubidium> might be OGFX has the µ
21:53:53 <Rubidium> haven't seen anyone interested enough to actually make (few) the missing characters for the other latin-ish languages
21:54:19 <Cutter> I can't set the font to TTD with french language?
21:56:03 <Rubidium> yes (you can't) unless you remove the mu from the langfile
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22:08:47 <Cutter> couldn't the game use TTD and replace missing characters with the system font?
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22:11:21 <Cutter> by the way, how should I edit lng files?
22:11:49 <Cutter> I get corrupted text using notepad, wordpad and openoffice
22:12:41 <Cutter> even when I manually specify "UTF-8 encoding"
22:13:13 <thingwath> most likely something that can handle unix newlines :)
22:14:35 <planetmaker> Those files are compiled and not edited
22:16:57 * Belugas retreats to some cousy environnement
22:16:58 <Belugas> called
22:17:00 <Belugas> home
22:17:03 <Belugas> night all
22:17:32 <Nite_Owl> later Belugas
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22:23:27 <planetmaker> night Belugas
22:24:39 <Cutter> I have to recompile to remove this char in my lng file ?
22:26:27 <glx> just change font size in the config
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22:38:13 <Cutter> it looks bad
22:38:15 <Cutter>
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22:41:51 <frosch123> Cutter: <- for 0.7.3 without "µ"
22:45:58 <Cutter> frosch123: thanks
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22:55:11 <glx> try nighlies, windows handle font size in a better way
22:58:41 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18290 /trunk/src/timetable_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: be more strict about what vehicles may use timetables
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23:23:27 <Terkhen> good night
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23:28:17 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18291 /trunk/src/ (date.cpp date_type.h): -Codechange: rework the calculation of the 'days till year' macro a bit so it can be properly reused and add a MAX_DAY
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23:37:27 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18292 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: add a command to set the start date of a timetable. Based on work by PhilSophus.
23:39:11 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18293 /trunk/ (7 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: add a window to set the date. Based on work by PhilSophus and Maedhros.
23:40:02 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18294 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt timetable_gui.cpp): -Feature: set the start time of a timetable
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