IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-11-24
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01:34:03 <Belugas> heheh...impatience... really funny sometimes...
01:34:40 <Belugas> and now, after a nice tv time, let's go back to work@work
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02:43:22 <jony123> can i advertise my server here?
02:49:10 <PeterT> jony123: sure, but you may get slapped
02:51:06 <De_Ghosty> is there any advantage to 64 bit openttd? no right
02:51:59 <thomas001> other than it runs native on 64bit operating systems?
02:53:18 <De_Ghosty> the data set is not big enough :o
02:53:31 <thomas001> the compiler might generate faster code
02:57:36 <thomas001> and as said,you do not need exta 32bit libs in memory nor 32bit context switches
03:03:13 <jony123> PeterT: the name is jony123
03:03:31 <PeterT> I spelt it correctly...
03:10:57 <Belugas> De_Ghosty, i'd say there is none. But then, the question would be : what are the advantage to run anything in 64 bits?
03:11:22 <De_Ghosty> large mermory space :o
03:11:40 <thomas001> x86_64 has more registers,instructions,SSE2 float path oO
03:12:12 <Belugas> that's a consequence of 64 bits, not an advantage ;)
03:12:14 <thomas001> yes,but from the other points benefit all applications,also those that do not use >2G memory
03:14:19 <Belugas> he would OTDbe ale o reach such a massive amount of memory?
03:58:19 <Belugas> mmmh... enugh work... time to hit thebed
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12:42:59 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18265 /trunk/src/company_gui.cpp: -Codechange: make the finance overview window big font aware
13:12:46 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: frosch * r18266 /trunk/src/ (8 files): -Codechange: Add a function to compute prices from price base and cost factor and use it consistently for vehicle purchase, running cost, and refit cost.
13:15:03 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18267 /trunk/src/ (53 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: make the music window big font aware
13:16:10 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: frosch * r18268 /trunk/src/ (12 files in 2 dirs): -Feature: [NewGRF] Make price base multipliers related to vehicles only apply to the GRF locally, if it defines engines of that type itself.
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13:28:30 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18269 /trunk/src/road_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#3326]: crash because there was no (hidden) one way widget for the tram toolbar
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14:06:32 <dihedral> that would look interesting :-) tram rails only on one side of the road ^^
14:06:51 <dihedral> or even in the center of the road :-D
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14:19:34 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18270 /trunk/src/ (roadveh.h roadveh_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: split the code for finding a road stop to stop at into a seperate function
14:20:52 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18271 /trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#3315]: road vehicles wouldn't reserve a road stop in tunnels/on bridges so when they leave wormhole they're still focussed on the main road stop causing unneededly long queues
14:23:29 <planetmaker> frosch123: do I read correctly that the base price madness kinda comes to an end? :-)
14:23:56 <frosch123> hehe, to some extent yes.
14:24:31 <frosch123> at least wrt. the most whining
14:25:10 <planetmaker> How are rail prices handled? They're still changed by all train newgrfs, I assume, yes?
14:25:49 <frosch123> only vehicle purchase, refit and running cost has been changed
14:26:15 <planetmaker> Very much appreciated! very much :-)
14:27:06 <frosch123> you can still globally change the costs for difficulty, but not define new vehicles with the same grf
14:27:23 <planetmaker> :-) Yes. And that's how it makes sense :-)
14:27:41 <frosch123> monolithic grfs are intentionally broken :p
14:28:34 <planetmaker> he, btw, frosch123: you proposed to make the construction stages for the comic houses white and grayscale.
14:28:53 <frosch123> i posted some examples
14:28:54 <planetmaker> Good thing is: gray scale is already provided by openttd as re-colour. No need for manual art work there :-)
14:29:12 <planetmaker> And it works :-) This is joy
14:29:45 <frosch123> the greyscale recolouring even works for 32bpp
14:30:04 <planetmaker> stage 1 and 2 will need sprites, though.
14:30:32 <planetmaker> My idea (now) is: stage1 = entirely white. Stage 2 = converted to b&w, thus that outlines are visible
14:30:53 <frosch123> i considered the entirely white quite ugly
14:31:15 <planetmaker> what is / was your proposal?
14:31:52 <planetmaker> assuming that re-colour to gray is the last constr. stage?
14:33:02 <frosch123> i liked the partly coloured ones, only red and green
14:33:36 <dihedral> one would have to see the partially coloured ones in the surrounding of fully coloured ones (the map)
14:33:53 <dihedral> as it would make a huge difference as opposed to the pink
14:34:28 <blathijs> You should have a sketchup for the first stage
14:34:40 <blathijs> with non-straight light grey lines and the like
14:34:42 <planetmaker> right. I missed the partial colours
14:34:50 <blathijs> Though that's probably hard to do with so few pixels
14:35:01 <planetmaker> hm... I could skip the sprites for construction stages altogether and go for (different) re-colourings...
14:35:32 <frosch123> well, 3 (A) was not really "partly coloured", but maybe you could make something like: 1) outline, 2) only colours mostly [red, green, blue], 3) two dominant colours, 4) finished
14:36:44 <frosch123> in any case, the groundsprite is especially ugly when entirely white :p
14:36:48 <dihedral> perhaps a sketchup of the different stages would really not be a bad idea
14:36:54 <dihedral> just so one can see the contrast etc.
14:37:15 <planetmaker> Well... I don't use anything else than default ground sprites so far.
14:37:36 <planetmaker> frosch123: how did you get the white with black outline?
14:39:00 <planetmaker> and that showed the result as in a few postings above that?
14:39:58 <frosch123> just "[R G B] := (max(R, G, B) <= 50 ? [0 0 0] : [255 255 255]" for every pixel
14:40:43 <planetmaker> Did you use gimp for that?
14:41:18 <frosch123> today i would, back then i guess i used delphi or fpc
14:41:31 <dihedral> planetmaker, imagic ^^
14:41:41 <dihedral> the convert command might be able to do a lot of that
14:42:01 <planetmaker> gimp can be scripted :-P
14:42:41 <planetmaker> frosch123: I don't understand then, how the difference between the outline and the b&w sketch you show relates to that formula
14:43:10 <frosch123> ah, well, the outline is just some floodfill
14:43:26 <frosch123> first b&w using rule above, then floodfill to find the outer border
14:43:49 <planetmaker> I guess 1) is an additional rule like: =255 when not attached to border? right...
14:44:03 <planetmaker> I'm looking for an efficient method how to obtain these results :-)
14:44:06 <frosch123> well, 1 was created from 2
14:44:31 <frosch123> but i fail to locate the source
14:46:08 <frosch123> found it :) but it was slow nevertheless. i did not care about speed for 10 sprites :p
14:46:49 <frosch123> hmm, and i did not comment it at all :p
14:48:27 <Belugas> i only comment when a bug is fixed ;)
14:48:38 <frosch123> but yes, it was just just a flood from the outside to the first edges
14:53:35 <frosch123> who added a spam filter to paste.openttd.org ? :p
14:55:40 <planetmaker> well... let's play around a bit :-)
14:57:03 * frosch123 starts an expedition to the kitchen
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15:53:10 <JVassie> anyone have any idea why my FIRS .grf wont activate in the latest OTTD Nightly? (r18258). I get this error 'Fatal: EO1: Incompatible set.' Have UKRS v3.04 active, no other train sets. (FIRSversion r365)
15:54:17 <Rubidium> maybe firs knows it UKRS doesn't have the appropriate vehicles and disables itself?
15:58:05 <Rubidium> JVassie: FIRS r366 + UKRS 3.04 together works fine for me; maybe it's some other NewGRF?
15:59:06 <Rubidium> basically *any* other industry related NewGRF
15:59:10 <JVassie> got rid of iron ore and coal mine grfs and no luck
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16:07:37 <Markk> Just got a question. I've used the ultimate 3-way-junction for a while and worked out a 4-way version of it, but hasn't found any info on the wiki about such a junction.
16:07:46 <Markk> Can I add that junction?
16:09:37 <planetmaker> That's hardly anything new, is it?
16:09:54 <Markk> Didn't think so, but as I said, didn't found it on the wiki
16:12:33 <planetmaker> In any case: it's a wiki. If you find something missing and you want to add it: go for it.
16:13:29 <Rubidium> planetmaker: I don't 100% agree with that :)
16:13:46 <planetmaker> maybe add "OpenTTD related"? ;-)
16:13:59 <Rubidium> yeah, that makes it more agreeable
16:14:18 <planetmaker> adding your p0rn just because you miss it there might be inappropriate :-P
16:14:19 <Rubidium> but especially spam, which some people find missing, shouldn't be added
16:15:25 <Markk> But that counts for any wiki I hope
16:15:57 <frosch123> but you should try for a smaller image :p
16:17:24 <Markk> Rubidium: Yeah, but uncyclopedia and other language version of it are there for the humour
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16:55:04 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18272 /trunk/src/ (widget.cpp widget_type.h): -Codechange: make FindScrollbar a const function
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17:13:36 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18273 /trunk/src/ (widget.cpp widget_type.h window.cpp):
17:13:36 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Codechange: do not require widget numbers for default widgets (close, sticky,
17:13:36 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: resize buttons and the caption), except when you want to use SetStringParameter
17:13:36 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: for the caption ofcourse. Also remove the requirement for some of the WDF flags;
17:13:36 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: no need to test for both the flag whether a feature is used and whether the
17:13:38 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: feature is in action.
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17:28:42 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18274 /trunk/src/ (43 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: remove the unused WDF flags
17:40:51 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: frosch * r18275 /trunk/bin/ai/regression/regression.txt: -Fix (r18266): Need to update regression due to different rounding.
17:56:33 <Zuu> Is there a known issue with uploading to BaNaNaS?
17:56:58 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: frosch * r18276 /trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs): -Fix: [NoAI] Make AIIndustryType::GetConstructionCost() return -1, if the industry is neither buildable nor prospectable.
17:57:07 <Zuu> I get an upload error that seams to be that file-uploads is not working on the server.
17:57:45 <Rubidium> Zuu: TrueBrain would like to know about that
18:04:04 <Zuu> Rubidium: Okay, I've PMed him with the details.
18:06:07 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18277 /trunk/src/ (39 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: remove unneeded widget indices for close, resize and sticky boxes and for window captions
18:28:11 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: frosch * r18278 /trunk/src/table/build_industry.h: -Cleanup (r1): No need to set a cost multiplier for raw-industry-construction of banks. They have never been raw industries.
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18:41:28 <Belugas> but there are raw sberries
18:43:05 <frosch123> is that something between straw- and rasp-berry?
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18:45:36 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: translators * r18279 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files): (log message trimmed)
18:45:36 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:36 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 3 changes by josesun
18:45:36 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: finnish - 2 changes by jpx_
18:45:36 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: greek - 34 changes by fumantsu
18:45:38 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: hungarian - 3 changes by alyr
18:45:38 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: polish - 3 changes by silver_777
18:53:28 <Belugas> raspberry indeed, but the joke would nt have been possible :)
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21:14:00 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18280 /trunk/src/ (29 files): -Codechange: remove widget indices that are not needed for custom drawing/handling input
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21:18:23 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: smatz * r18281 /trunk/src/ (12 files in 4 dirs): -Feature: founding towns in-game (based on work by Belugas, TheJosh, GeekToo, Terkhen and others)
21:19:22 <Rubidium> now it is in trunk... we can revert it while it's still in trunk :)
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21:20:51 <Alberth> Rubidium: now it is in trunk, now it isn't :)
21:21:08 * Rubidium wonders when the first bug report comes!
21:21:17 <Sacro> there's a bug for me to file?
21:21:22 <Belugas> ho boy... now i can die in shame...
21:21:27 <Rubidium> "I build a town and it's now mine!"
21:22:42 <frosch123> Belugas: hehe, smatz tried to blame a lot :p
21:23:21 <PeterT> Will Found a Town be in 0.7.4 or in 0.8.0?
21:23:27 <SmatZ> I hope I didn't miss anyone who came with his own custom patch
21:24:29 <Belugas> i think most are there
21:24:55 <Belugas> although TheJosh should have been the first one
21:25:19 <PeterT> Nice work Belugas, Terken
21:27:41 <_ln> It's an old idea, but was classified as interesting back then by mr C.
21:27:53 <Belugas> bad _ln... wishing andy to leave is not a good one :(
21:28:36 <_ln> And it is... International flights to destinations outside the map.
21:28:50 <PeterT> I read a topic about this once
21:28:56 <PeterT> in the suggestions forum
21:29:30 <Belugas> i guess it's still in the suggestion forum ^_^
21:29:55 <Alberth> several time probably
21:31:08 <_ln> And while you're at it, please also add international trains.
21:32:25 <PeterT> are you implying that they should add it right now?
21:33:12 <_ln> No, no, I'm going to bed in a few moments. So tomorrow night is very much sufficient.
21:36:15 <_ln> I wonder what Bjarni would say about PeterT's comment...
21:36:23 <DorpsGek> _ln: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 11 weeks, 0 days, 1 hour, 36 minutes, and 18 seconds ago: <Bjarni> Belugas: there is no reason to write to PeterT. We already know he is unable to read anyway :P
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22:02:35 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: frosch * r18282 /trunk/src/ (industry_cmd.cpp industrytype.h table/build_industry.h): -Codechange: Remove IndustrySpec::raw_industry_cost_multiplier and use 8 * cost_multiplier instead.
22:09:38 <PeterT> SmatZ: thanks for increasing the found town price
22:11:38 <Terkhen> for me it's too expensive :P
22:13:37 <SmatZ> PeterT: Terkhen: it will be configurable via newgrf (soon ;)
22:13:54 <SmatZ> it is already, though it's bound to price of building industry
22:15:54 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: frosch * r18283 /trunk/src/ (13 files in 2 dirs):
22:15:54 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Feature: [NewGRF] Add new price bases for removing industries,
22:15:54 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: building/removing unmovables (new objects), building/removing
22:15:54 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rail-waypoints/buoys, interacting with town-authority, building foundations,
22:15:54 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: funding primary industries (when not prospecting) and towns.
22:15:54 <frosch123> evil smatz, telling everything while i am a the commit message :p
22:15:56 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: If a GRF does not set price multipliers for these new prices, but for the previously used ones, the old modifiers will be propagated to the new bases.
22:16:54 <Belugas> evil frosch123, cutting his own commit mesage ;)
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22:21:16 <planetmaker> good evening you industrious, good folks :-)
22:21:20 <Chris_Booth> i see PeterT is annying people in here aswell as in coop
22:24:19 <Terkhen> SmatZ: I found a small bug... when pressing Shift + Found town, the estimated cost is 0
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22:28:48 <SmatZ> Terkhen: yeah, known :) in SE, it shows correct cost
22:28:56 <SmatZ> it shows 0 because you don't have enough money
22:29:18 <SmatZ> or cheat yourself money ;)
22:36:01 <frosch123> planetmaker: i hope one of you will properly test the new multipliers, e.g. the foundation one
22:36:28 <planetmaker> :-) Uh... more new multipliers?
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22:39:39 <planetmaker> hm? I just came back from sport and was offline the last hours :-) It was no criticism :-)
22:40:25 <planetmaker> It was a statement of surprise rather, that more things changed than I anticipated ;-)
22:40:41 <frosch123> you missed at least two features :p
22:41:49 <planetmaker> I'm just checking the logs right now :-)
22:41:53 <planetmaker> It's nice reading :-)
22:43:12 <planetmaker> foundations would affect rail building etc also, right?
22:43:58 <frosch123> well, i did not distinguish building foundations under road/rail/everything-you-can-autoslope-below
22:44:09 <Zuu> Congratz to everyone with Fund town, though that breaks my AIs a bit. :-)
22:44:32 <frosch123> Zuu: don't worry, currently there is no AIEvent, so it won't notice :p
22:45:15 <frosch123> SmatZ: more interesting, do you want to allow founding towns for ais :p
22:45:50 <SmatZ> frosch123: I think they should be allowed to do that, not?
22:46:06 <Zuu> frosch123: Sure, it shouldn't be much of a problem, but having AITownList include new towns that just before was not in there can cause interesting problems if one has assumed that not to happen.
22:47:22 <planetmaker> hm... I wonder whether a town set *should* modify the "fund town". I guess it could handle the "clear house" and "clear road", maybe objects, too
22:47:40 <planetmaker> Lovely, lovely grf parameters :-)
22:47:48 <planetmaker> is "clear house" also grf-local?
22:48:13 <frosch123> currently not, but it might make sense for houses and industries to add that
22:48:42 <frosch123> but actually i am more concerned about all the stuff that depends on build_industry
22:49:08 <planetmaker> I've not much overview about the interdependencies there. That's more than just industries?
22:49:09 <frosch123> i.e. a industry set making industries more expensive also changes stuff for town authority, funding towns, ....
22:49:26 <planetmaker> oh, do they? *That* does not make sense indeed
22:49:58 <frosch123> but maybe we should change some of them and not care about compatiblity :p
22:50:03 <SmatZ> TownActionRoadRebuild() doesn't create AIEvent... TownActionBuyRights() doesn't even create news item :-p
22:50:29 <frosch123> SmatZ: sounds like a long night for you :p
22:51:38 <Rubidium> but doing it in five minutes is fine too!
22:54:06 <planetmaker> frosch123: I'm not sure I understand that table... the comments give the base prices. There are two base price categories (constr. + running). but...
22:54:41 <frosch123> first column is the value without inflation and with normal construction an running cost
22:54:41 <planetmaker> ... the 2nd last row (the last which isn't a comment) is then what? Influenced by what is in the comment?
22:54:55 <frosch123> second columns specifies the difficulty setting that changes the cost
22:55:18 <frosch123> the third column is the grf feature that triggers the multiplier to stay grf local
22:55:40 <frosch123> the last column is the fallback multiplier that is used, if the newgrf only sets the old muliplier, but not the new
22:55:49 <planetmaker> GSF_END = global then
22:56:54 <planetmaker> yes. That's what I meant. The others: local when it defines those vehicle types
22:57:07 <frosch123> e.g. currently the fallback for remove_industry is remove_house, because that is the base price ttdp uses and ottd used before. but actually using build_industry might be move useful as fallback
22:58:01 <frosch123> similiar can be said about the buoy stuff. i guess only cs knows in what way buoys are related to truck stops :p
22:58:52 <planetmaker> you know... those trucks with a loooong snorkel so they can pass the channel without a bridge etc ;-)
22:59:02 <frosch123> PR_TOWN_ACTION and PR_BUILD_TOWN are the most questionable though
22:59:08 <planetmaker> it just needs a bit lead so they don't swim
22:59:38 <planetmaker> they're difficulty settings... Better changed via GUI IMO
23:00:35 <planetmaker> but yeah, having towns depend on industry... well.
23:00:38 <frosch123> you can say that about all :p
23:00:48 <planetmaker> noteworthy. Yes, one could ;-)
23:01:48 <planetmaker> But There's nothing in any newgrf which depends on those. Construction costs of rail or so... maybe. But well. Maybe I should make in the comic set town action by default insanely high ;-)
23:01:57 <frosch123> build_town depending on industries is not that bad actually, as it is also a source/destination for cargo
23:02:09 <frosch123> town authority does not fit anywhere though :p
23:02:12 <planetmaker> And give it mystic parameters, and for cash I'll tell the correct values to make it sane ;-)
23:02:38 <planetmaker> he, true. Cargo...
23:02:55 <planetmaker> Reminds me... That was something I wanted to add :-)
23:03:02 <frosch123> so after all, i guess it will just stay like it is currently :p
23:03:08 <planetmaker> Rubish generating houses
23:03:24 <frosch123> if someone cares, he can set the multipliers individually
23:03:46 <frosch123> planetmaker: rubish in comics?
23:04:24 <planetmaker> Dunno. And some houses might generate a few tourists, too.
23:04:54 <frosch123> you could add a saloon accepting tar and feathers
23:04:56 <planetmaker> It was a random idea when I thought about industry set support
23:06:13 <planetmaker> I don't yet have a good saloon in those 37 or so houses I have. It's all temperate houses basically.
23:06:30 <planetmaker> Though to my understanding simutran's comic set also features arctic and desert sprites.
23:10:17 <planetmaker> Ok, then let's see that we get a test grf for the new town parameters ;-)
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23:34:59 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: frosch * r18284 /trunk/src/ (economy_type.h newgrf.cpp): -Cleanup (r18268, r18283): Replace magic value with enum.
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