IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-11-11
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01:24:52 <tiaz> I'm on 0.7.3 and when I load a saved game with a new AI all of them error out with:
01:25:02 <tiaz> 'Your script made an error: the index `rawin` does not exist'
01:25:13 <tiaz> I tried redownloading the content but that didn't seem to do anything and I can't find anything in google. is this a known thing?
01:31:12 <glx> broken AI
01:36:13 <tiaz> it did fine until the save/restore
01:36:19 <tiaz> I guess I'll try starting a new one and see if it lives
01:37:14 <glx> maybe only saving/loading is broken in the AI, anyway it's a broken AI :)
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02:50:25 <zil> Hi, if anyone can help me just have a couple of questions - I usually just plan biggest routes possible, but reading the site has got me a little confused -
02:50:45 <zil> I do not understand the calulations for "late delivery" as long as you go fast, does the distance outweigh the penalty?
02:54:04 <Eddi|zuHause> some cargo (like food) must be delivered within a given time
02:54:22 <Eddi|zuHause> so with slow vehicles, you can make losses if you go too far
02:54:46 <Eddi|zuHause> the faster the vehicles get, the further you can bring them
02:54:55 <Eddi|zuHause> farther?
02:54:59 <Eddi|zuHause> whatever?
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02:58:16 <Eddi|zuHause> the "problem" is that maximum of -88%, so if you are _really extremely late_, the price goes up again for the distance
03:01:18 <Eddi|zuHause> quick calculation says for passengers that is 30 years ;)
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03:11:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure how to interpret this data correctly... my calculation says for passengers you make no money after 137 days...
03:12:06 <SirSquidness> hrm, so all those inter-continental rail routes I've done aren't actually that profitable afterall.
03:13:46 <Eddi|zuHause> but there are some limits in place that you don't actually make "no money"
03:14:08 <Eddi|zuHause> so after these 137 days, it seems to grow linearily with distance
03:14:16 <Eddi|zuHause> which might make the routes profital again
03:15:38 <zil> it makes sense - I am playing on a 1024x1024 field and I just made a airfield from one corner to another... 1930 and fully loaded I only got 3k :(
03:16:20 <zil> Journey took about a year! I am coming straight from TT DX to open TTD, never played before, just fancied some retro gaming and can't beleive it is still alive e.t.c.
03:16:29 <Eddi|zuHause> <-- suggests at 300km/h you can cross the entire map at optimum income
03:16:36 <zil> I remember doing a similar route with that fast plane you et later and getting 100+k for the same route
03:17:04 <Eddi|zuHause> note that plane speed might be scaled 1/4, so for airplanes you need 1200km/h
03:17:17 <Eddi|zuHause> [depending on setting]
03:17:22 <zil> im on default
03:18:40 <Eddi|zuHause> but again, i might be misreading the data
03:19:09 <zil> anyway, another question that is going to sound stupid but wondering - does building on farmland affect production?
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03:19:22 <zil> its ok, I understand briefly
03:19:52 <Eddi|zuHause> no, farmland is only there to make clearing it annoyingly expensive, it has no effect on the farm
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03:20:23 <zil> Thanks! I wondered that for many years! I havent played this game for 10+! I feel like a child again! :)
03:21:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i know that feeling ,)
03:22:21 <zil> oh well, time to play again... I remember bunking off school in order to play this on my 486 (original before delux!)... so happy
03:22:26 <zil> thanks for your help
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04:36:27 <Rhamphoryncus> zil: did your plane break down along the way? That severely reduces the speed
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05:07:36 <zil> yes it did - sorry, been playing the past couple of hours! so much fun but need sleep - I played this game for weeks at a time in the old days!
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06:46:41 <Rhamphoryncus> The chance of a breakdown on a long enough flight is high enough you might as well assume it always happens.. which makes any such flight impractical
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09:34:43 <Muxy> Is there somewhere a list of all fixes who have not been integrated into a release ?
09:36:46 <Eddi|zuHause> why would anyone do that?
09:37:07 <Eddi|zuHause> it'd consist of 90% "i messed up stuff in the last commit"
09:39:02 <Eddi|zuHause> other than that, everything tagged "Fix:" since the last release
09:42:16 <Muxy> i'm just trying to understand how is made a release and if it is possible to forget some fixes and who decide to integrate a particular fix in a release.
09:45:01 <Eddi|zuHause> every commit message that starts with "Fix" that does not refer to a "Feature" after the last major release branch
09:47:25 <Muxy> as an example : r16506, when this fix will be integrated into a release ?
09:47:39 <TrueBrain> @openttd commit 16506
09:47:39 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Commit by smatz :: r16506 trunk/src/network/network.cpp (2009-06-02 19:56:23 UTC)
09:47:40 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: -Fix: count only active clients (not those waiting for map download) when checking min_active_clients limit
09:48:25 <Eddi|zuHause> if it's not backported by now, it probably won't...
09:49:09 <Eddi|zuHause> except you talk Rubidium into it
09:49:09 <Muxy> so your 10:45 reply not really true (<Eddi|zuHause> every commit message that starts with "Fix" that does not refer to a "Feature" after the last major release branch)
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09:50:33 <Muxy> it means some fixes who are in trunk now but not backported can be forgetted... for ever...
09:50:44 <TrueBrain> how?
09:50:50 <TrueBrain> any next major release will have them
09:50:53 <TrueBrain> (by definition)
09:51:36 <Muxy> okay, it means that r16506 will be integrated from 0.8.0
09:51:57 <TrueBrain> by definition all trunk commits will be in the next major, so yes
09:52:00 <blathijs> Muxy: I think only the most important fixes are backported to minor versions (since backporting is still partly manual work)
09:53:40 <Muxy> that's what i want to know : backporting to release is a manual job.
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09:54:02 <TrueBrain> isn't that a 'dah'? Hmm :)
09:54:22 * Muxy doest know what a 'dah' is
09:54:51 <TrueBrain> maybe for the best
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09:55:18 <Muxy> and that's why i asked 10:42 if there is a list of all fixes already in trunk but not backported
09:55:38 <Eddi|zuHause> them why don't you ask for what you are actually wanting to know?
09:55:50 <TrueBrain> svn log svn:// > diff1.txt && svn log svn:// > diff2.txt && diff -u diff1.txt diff2.txt
09:55:51 <TrueBrain> ghehe :)
09:57:24 <Muxy> Eddi: what i wanted to know has been exposed at 10:34 : Is there somewhere a list of all fixes who have not been integrated into a release ?
09:57:41 <TrueBrain> so again: svn log will tell you
09:59:04 <blathijs> Or actually, no, there is no such list but you could make one with svn log :-)
09:59:05 <TrueBrain> (one of the beauties of a Version Control System)
09:59:12 <TrueBrain> blathijs: fair enough ;)
10:00:02 <TrueBrain> we can start a philosophical debate about it of course .. if you can generate something out of existing data, does the result already exist, and does it ever you generate the data, or was it never really there?
10:00:21 <TrueBrain> (to refer to xkcd and the lego one :p)
10:00:26 <blathijs> :-)
10:00:50 <blathijs> I love a good philosophical discussion, but I'm a bit busy right now :-p
10:00:54 <Muxy> okay, then i must improve my knowledge around svn
10:01:01 <TrueBrain> blathijs: you are always busy :(
10:01:15 <TrueBrain> Muxy: or just gain some experience in browsing .. like
10:01:50 <Muxy> TrueBrain: that's it : around svn
10:01:57 <blathijs> TrueBrain: Yeah, but I'm hoping to get a first draft version of my thesis finished in two days, and I'm organising a LARP event in two days, so I'm a tad extra busy right now :-p
10:02:09 <TrueBrain> fair enough ;)
10:02:10 <TrueBrain> good luck :)
10:02:25 <TrueBrain> (to blathijs btw)
10:02:31 <blathijs> :-)
10:02:32 <Muxy> blathijs: thesis about xhat ?
10:02:43 <Muxy> *what
10:02:50 <blathijs> Muxy: Translating hardware descriptions in Haskell to VHDL
10:03:20 <Muxy> blathijs: bless you :)
10:03:33 <Xaroth> blathijs: I take it the easy subjects were already taken? :P
10:03:56 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: if you would know blathijs a bit (and the fact he is Dutch), you wouldn't have asked that :p
10:04:21 <Xaroth> unfortunately I don't know him other than knowing he was dutch :P
10:04:32 <blathijs> Xaroth: This was a fun subject. Nice opportunity to learn Haskell :-p
10:05:16 <blathijs> Xaroth: And I've so far limited to the "easy" stuff, I'm not translating arbitrary Haskell programs, only ones that very explicitly describe hardware designs
10:05:49 <Xaroth> ah :)
10:06:27 <Xaroth> I'm long glad I never had to do any thesis :P
10:07:02 <TrueBrain> blathijs: make sure to pass us a copy when you are done ;)
10:07:09 <TrueBrain> I have to go to EVO .. bye all :)
10:07:16 <Xaroth> cya TrueBrain
10:07:39 <blathijs> TrueBrain: hf
10:08:03 <blathijs> Xaroth: The Haskell coding part was really cool, but the thesis writing part is taking a bit too long for my taste :-p
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10:08:58 <Terkhen> hello
10:09:48 <Xaroth> blathijs: writing stuff (project/thesis wise) is always the annoying bit
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10:13:50 <blathijs> Yup :-)
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14:35:48 <ZxBiohazardZx> heya
14:35:52 <ZxBiohazardZx> im back here XD
14:36:27 <ZxBiohazardZx> can someone explain what i did wrong with compiling after isbeta3 patching on the revision 16532 (language files missing/error compiling language file)
14:39:49 <ZxBiohazardZx> getting an error on the "make" command
14:40:51 <Rubidium> 1) patching gave absolutely no warnings/errors/failures/rejects?
14:40:59 <ZxBiohazardZx> lemmy check that
14:41:04 <Rubidium> 2) you worked on a clean version of trunk?
14:41:04 <ZxBiohazardZx> not sure anymore, think it didnt
14:41:07 <ZxBiohazardZx> yeah
14:41:18 <ZxBiohazardZx> i got clean trunk, rev 16532 as suggested with the file
14:41:25 <ZxBiohazardZx> but ill just get clean trunk again:P
14:41:27 <Rubidium> odd
14:41:39 <ZxBiohazardZx> and retry the patch before ill ./configure and make again:P
14:41:45 <ZxBiohazardZx> hoping to figure out the problem
14:42:44 <Rubidium> where's that diff?
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14:43:42 <ZxBiohazardZx> 1 sec lemmy get link again
14:43:47 <ZxBiohazardZx> it was on IS infra site
14:44:26 <Rubidium> applies and seems to compile fine on a clean r16523
14:44:27 <ZxBiohazardZx> there you go
14:44:59 <ZxBiohazardZx> i just got myself a clean revision 16532 with tortoise SVN (update till revision 16532 and NOT head)
14:45:07 <ZxBiohazardZx> but lemmy check that patch again:P
14:45:16 <ZxBiohazardZx> just redownloaded the 16532 again
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14:49:27 <ZxBiohazardZx> "completed, at revision 16532"
14:49:31 <ZxBiohazardZx> ok now i go apply the patch
14:50:41 <ZxBiohazardZx> alright now it returns me with 1 million errors wtf
14:50:52 <Rubidium> then you're doing it wrong
14:51:16 <ZxBiohazardZx> "c:\BuidOTTD\trunk\a' is not a working copy "
14:51:21 <ZxBiohazardZx> and again with does not exists
14:51:29 <ZxBiohazardZx> do i have to compile the trunk BEFORE patching?:S
14:51:35 <Rubidium> no
14:51:44 <ZxBiohazardZx> wtf
14:51:52 <ZxBiohazardZx> then why does it freaking come with THAT error?
14:51:53 <Rubidium> it's just not a svn diff, which means that anything that assumes it's a svn diff fails horribly
14:52:03 <ZxBiohazardZx> *sigh
14:52:05 <ZxBiohazardZx> alright
14:52:09 <ZxBiohazardZx> so can i try with mingw
14:52:17 <ZxBiohazardZx> or do i have to download another thing for patching?
14:52:32 <ZxBiohazardZx> cause i remember doing it on a different way but ive prolly removed that so:p
14:52:34 <Rubidium> no, patch is fine as long as you use the right parameters
14:52:55 <ZxBiohazardZx> with tortoise?
14:53:47 <ZxBiohazardZx> or do i need something else to apply that .diff file with?
14:55:45 <ZxBiohazardZx> alright found this BIZAR solutio (part1)
14:55:58 <ZxBiohazardZx> renamed "trunk" to "a" seemed to make the majority work
14:56:18 <ZxBiohazardZx> only have a problem with " \dev\null
14:56:30 <ZxBiohazardZx> could not open the file \dev\null (ok)
14:56:40 <ZxBiohazardZx> can only click Ok so i assume i do that?
14:58:31 <Xaroth> poor Rubidium
14:58:48 <ZxBiohazardZx> anyone know about this issue?
14:59:07 <ZxBiohazardZx> the null files DO contain some text
14:59:15 <ZxBiohazardZx> so im assuming they are wrong (isbeta3)
14:59:19 <ZxBiohazardZx> or wtf happend:p
14:59:45 <ZxBiohazardZx> rubidium still alive?
14:59:52 <Rubidium> ... you're probably bitten by microsoft's crappy patch implementation or so
15:00:01 <ZxBiohazardZx> pffft
15:00:05 <ZxBiohazardZx> the .diff
15:00:14 <ZxBiohazardZx> contains a few "null" entries
15:00:21 <ZxBiohazardZx> that should have been named
15:00:22 <ZxBiohazardZx> XD
15:00:45 <ZxBiohazardZx> it says /** @file infrastructure.cpp Implementation of infrastructure sharing */ in first line
15:00:57 <ZxBiohazardZx> on the first "null"
15:01:09 <ZxBiohazardZx> im guessing it should be infrastructure.cpp
15:01:12 <ZxBiohazardZx> but i hate to guess
15:01:28 <ZxBiohazardZx> and i hate a .diff that just doesnt work on apply XD
15:01:41 <ZxBiohazardZx> first i had to rename trunk to "a" and now i have this weird stuff
15:02:03 <ZxBiohazardZx> i just want IS to work on an openttd trunk XD
15:02:48 <welshdragon> I'd like IS and Cargodist for Christmas
15:02:54 <welshdragon> i doubt it wiuld happen
15:02:56 <ZxBiohazardZx> hehe
15:03:06 <ZxBiohazardZx> im struggling to get ISbeta3 working
15:03:13 <ZxBiohazardZx> but it keeps doing the same error
15:03:19 <ZxBiohazardZx> even after redownloading the .diff
15:03:37 <welshdragon> have you tried with the recent stuff in their repository?
15:03:42 <ZxBiohazardZx> hehe
15:03:46 <ZxBiohazardZx> i dont want the release
15:03:55 <ZxBiohazardZx> i just downloaded the file from their own site
15:03:59 <ZxBiohazardZx>
15:04:11 <ZxBiohazardZx> and i even got myself a r16532 trunk
15:04:14 <ZxBiohazardZx> to patch it against
15:04:22 <ZxBiohazardZx> but the .diff just wont work
15:04:26 <fjb> The patch needs option -p1 (with a POSIX compatible patch).
15:04:32 <ZxBiohazardZx> first i had to rename my trunk to "a"
15:04:40 <ZxBiohazardZx> and then i had an issue because of "null" entries
15:05:00 <ZxBiohazardZx> im using tortoise merger and tortoiseSVN
15:05:04 <ZxBiohazardZx> works fine
15:05:13 <ZxBiohazardZx> just that the .diff has 4"null" entries
15:05:21 <fjb> If you get that errors it is not working fine.
15:05:40 <ZxBiohazardZx> that shouldnt be "null" but some name of file to change.cpp
15:06:21 <fjb> First understand then complain.
15:07:38 <ZxBiohazardZx> *sigh
15:07:40 <ZxBiohazardZx> alright
15:07:43 <Rubidium> ZxBiohazardZx: if a plain text editor doesn't read your Word document right, do you start bashing at the file till it's fine it the text editor... or are you going to use Word?
15:07:55 <ZxBiohazardZx> tricky tricky
15:07:56 <ZxBiohazardZx> depends
15:08:06 <ZxBiohazardZx> i think id do the word option
15:08:21 <ZxBiohazardZx> but the point is that i only have the plain text editor
15:08:30 <ZxBiohazardZx> and dont know what the "word" program would be XD
15:08:31 <ZxBiohazardZx> aka
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15:08:35 <ZxBiohazardZx> im complete idiot/n00b
15:08:51 <ZxBiohazardZx> and im trying to get the IS3 diff working on the trunk it was designed for/updated to
15:08:55 <ZxBiohazardZx> but it wont let me
15:09:00 <ZxBiohazardZx> so i turn to my IRC
15:09:02 <Rubidium> then use the idiot/n00b proof binaries
15:09:06 <ZxBiohazardZx> where all the PRO's are
15:09:19 <ZxBiohazardZx> XD
15:09:30 <ZxBiohazardZx> i think ive said it before (with you here)
15:09:38 <Rubidium> if you can't handle patching, then you certainly can't handle solving rejects/compile failures
15:09:51 <ZxBiohazardZx> im willing to learn, just that the learning curve with you guys is really steep
15:09:53 <ZxBiohazardZx> XD
15:10:07 <ZxBiohazardZx> i figured, because the last 25 compiles/patches where fine
15:10:15 <ZxBiohazardZx> just this IS3 is giving me problems
15:10:50 <glx> it's an hg diff (which is a standard diff applyable using patch -p1)
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15:11:54 <glx> you can also make it usable by tortoise (remove a/ and b/, but do it carefully)
15:12:03 <Rubidium> which is more or less industry standard and subversion is one of the few not obeying
15:12:09 <ZxBiohazardZx> thx glx
15:12:19 <ZxBiohazardZx> alright:P
15:12:20 <KenjiE20> or use the beta5 SVN diffs >_>
15:12:36 <ZxBiohazardZx> where is the beta 5 .diff ?
15:12:45 <ZxBiohazardZx> their own site only has beta 2 and 3 .diff files
15:12:47 <ZxBiohazardZx> XD
15:12:48 <KenjiE20>
15:12:57 <ZxBiohazardZx> wow...
15:12:59 <ZxBiohazardZx> thx XD
15:13:10 <ZxBiohazardZx> and beta5 works against latest rev?
15:13:12 <ZxBiohazardZx> or ?
15:13:20 <KenjiE20> try reading the links
15:14:34 <ZxBiohazardZx> its jsut that i recall that on forums, they mentionned something like: revision =/= trunk revision
15:14:36 <ZxBiohazardZx> but alrightXD
15:14:42 <ZxBiohazardZx> ill give it a shot, nothing to lose anyway:)
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15:44:24 <fjb> Hm, using something else then TortoiseSVN is a steep learning curve? Strange guy...
15:45:23 <blathijs> 16:07:30 < ZxBiohazardZx> where all the PRO's ar <-- n00b :-p
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16:25:53 <guru3> ok this is odd...
16:26:05 <guru3> running openttd with SDL_VIDEOMODE=dga and i've lost mouse input
16:26:17 <guru3> and possibly keyboard input
16:26:47 <guru3> err SDL_VIDEODRIVER
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18:13:53 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18038 /trunk/src/script/squirrel.cpp: -Fix [FS#3290] (r17402): AIs failed to load their data from savegames by crashing them when they tried
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18:45:27 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: translators * r18039 /trunk/src/lang/ (4 files in 2 dirs):
18:45:27 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:27 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: bulgarian - 5 changes by Tvel
18:45:27 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: polish - 7 changes by amateja
18:45:27 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: ukrainian - 2 changes by Madvin
18:45:28 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: vietnamese - 12 changes by nglekhoi
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19:42:26 <planetmaker> !info
19:42:26 *** planetmaker was kicked by DorpsGek (Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.)
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19:42:38 <planetmaker> he :-)
19:49:39 <Ammler> noob!
19:50:03 <planetmaker> :-) Actually I was curious ;-)
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19:50:23 <planetmaker> but the kick-list of commands is quite up2date :-P
19:50:53 <planetmaker> I would have bet that !info wasn't in that list - but I proved myself wrong :-P
19:50:55 <frosch123> the command is piped to your bot in private, and if it answers the kick is issued
19:51:26 <planetmaker> haha :-) that's nice
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19:51:38 <frosch123> (no idea actually :p )
19:51:45 <planetmaker> :-P
19:51:54 <planetmaker> !tunnels
19:52:01 <planetmaker> wrong hypothesis ;-)
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20:14:17 <_ln> (sfw)
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20:19:09 <FauxFaux> Whatever language that page is in seems to be designed for people with sticky keys. ¬_¬
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20:23:11 <planetmaker> if I'd have to bet, it's Finish.
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20:29:12 <ptr_> yes, it's finish
20:29:21 <ptr_> finnish*
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20:32:10 <_ln> (surprising power line video)
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20:40:53 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18040 /trunk/src/ (core/alloc_type.hpp window_gui.h): -Codechange: the size parameter (if it's that actually) isn't needed for the delete operator
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20:41:35 <FauxFaux> _ln: How do they get the sound so good when the helicopter is sitting there? :/
20:42:40 <_ln> they're in america where anything's possible
20:43:18 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18041 /trunk/src/newgrf_text.cpp: -Codechange: some coding style
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20:53:35 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18042 /trunk/src/core/alloc_type.hpp: -Cleanup: remove some stale comments
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21:07:25 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18043 /trunk/known-bugs.txt: -Document: the resizing issue with SDL and OpenTTD
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21:09:17 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18044 /trunk/known-bugs.txt: -Change: mention (one of the) bug report(s) for the known-but-will-not-or-cannot-fix bugs and order them by FS ID
21:16:10 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18045 /trunk/src/ (core/pool_type.hpp newgrf_text.cpp stdafx.h window_gui.h):
21:16:10 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Fix: GCC 4.5@HEAD not compiling OpenTTD anymore because of a "non-placement deallocation function [is] selected for placement delete", or in other words delete(void *, size_t) is 'magic'.
21:16:10 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: We implemented these delete(void *, size_t) operator functions because MSVC warned that "no matching operator delete found; memory will not be freed if initialization throws an exception" for new(size_t, size_t).
21:16:10 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: This disables MSVC warning about this because we do not use exceptions in the (constructors that use the) overridden allocation functions, as such they will never be called; delete(void *) remains necessary though.
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21:46:05 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18046 /branches/0.7/src/ (9 files in 4 dirs):
21:46:05 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: [0.7] -Backport from trunk:
21:46:05 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: - Fix: AIs failed to load their data from savegames by crashing them when they tried [FS#3290] (r18038)
21:46:05 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: - Fix: Screen jumped a bit for at least SDL and Allegro when right-click-dragging (r18030)
21:46:05 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NewGRF] Improve parsing of RIFF data. Skip unknown chunks and check chunk sizes (r17999)
21:46:06 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: - Fix: Count only active clients (not those waiting for map download) when checking min_active_clients limit (r16506)
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22:09:46 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18047 /branches/0.7/src/ (core/alloc_type.hpp newgrf_text.cpp stdafx.h window_gui.h):
22:09:46 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: [0.7] -Backport from trunk:
22:09:46 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: - Fix: GCC 4.5 compiling (r18045, r18040)
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22:26:50 <Terkhen> good night
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