IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-10-28
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00:58:46 <cristian> hola alguien habla castellano??
00:59:53 <Muddy> cristian: take a look at the far right side of the topic :)
01:00:42 <_ln> alguien posiblemente entiende el castellano
01:01:56 <cristian> sabes como puedo descargar el ottd 32?
01:02:24 <cristian> por lo que vi,se puede darle mas zoom
01:03:05 <glx> and we don't support this version
01:03:55 <SmatZ> 32bpp zoom-in patch is not official
01:04:06 <SmatZ> so no support from ottd devs
01:06:37 <cristian> es un juego unico el 32???
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01:09:52 <cristian> ok gracias por responder,che
01:15:31 <_ln> i wonder if openttd has been featured on some spanish forum recently, as we've had two spanish-speakers here during the past days, and hardly anyone ever before.
01:17:30 <SmatZ> cristian seems to be from argentina
01:17:58 <_ln> benefits of a global language
01:18:03 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not that rare to have spanish speakers here
01:18:57 <glx> but they usually speak english ;)
01:39:17 <_ln> Eddi|zuHause: there's Terkhen, but who else?
01:39:38 <Eddi|zuHause> one regular is not enough?
01:40:00 <Eddi|zuHause> there are occasionally people who come here, but i can't name them...
01:40:46 <_ln> Terkhen is quite a new regular, afaict.
01:42:21 <_ln> just a statement, no implication.
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02:02:07 <WilliamC> What port does OTTD use?
02:02:37 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound)
02:17:35 <WilliamC> Can soeone test out my server?
02:18:38 <glx> check servers.openttd.org
02:19:38 <Eddi|zuHause> welcome to the night shift, where help comes more promptly than during the day :p
02:21:58 <WilliamC> It's not but I swear I setup the forwarding correctly.
02:28:14 <WilliamC> I think one of my firewall rules is preventing it from being listed.
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02:28:44 <Eddi|zuHause> we can't help with that
02:30:51 <WilliamC> Can you do me a favor?
02:31:13 <Eddi|zuHause> the question safest to be answered with "no" :p
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10:44:28 <pva> can anyone give me directions for the openttd code? I'd like to get involved...
10:47:40 <Rubidium> depends on what you want; the question is, to me at least, ambiguous. Either you want a link to the source code or you want to know where "something" is handling in the source code
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11:41:40 <dihedral> he seems very interested :-P
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12:07:13 <pva> my intention is to understand the architecture: I am really impressed by the performance and stability
12:08:55 <pva> Actually my first idea was to add 'cases' to strings. But then I found that it is already available (but not used though).
12:09:26 <pva> So now I just want to understand the main picture.
12:09:32 <planetmaker> just not in the English language
12:09:54 <planetmaker> if it's not needed there...
12:10:07 <planetmaker> it's a task for translators to handle that properly
12:10:35 <pva> but believe me, cases are needed in russian
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12:10:49 <planetmaker> Well. But maybe not for the translation of OpenTTD.
12:11:10 <planetmaker> Most languages need them. But some don't need them for translating the strings in OpenTTD
12:11:29 <pva> I just see that russian translation sometimes... not acceptable.
12:11:38 <planetmaker> then become a translator.
12:11:41 <planetmaker> and make it better
12:11:56 <pva> Good idea, I'll givi it a try.
12:12:22 <planetmaker> It's a very easy thing to do. Just register as translator. You'll be accepted within 24h usually and then just go to translator.openttd.org and change the strings which need them
12:12:28 <pva> But anyway, I'd like to explore the project.
12:12:30 <planetmaker> nice and easy web interface for it
12:12:47 <planetmaker> Then get the code and have a look
12:13:05 <planetmaker> Also the doxygen documentation might help you.
12:13:12 <planetmaker> it's all online, too
12:13:27 <pva> Yes, it is very nice. I saw it
12:14:02 <planetmaker> but you'll have a hard time, if you go and ask "please walk me through OpenTTD's code (structure)".
12:14:06 <pva> I just wonder if any general overview is available or not.
12:14:07 <planetmaker> That's a task which cannot be done.
12:14:33 <pva> no-no, it is not necessary :)
12:14:47 <pva> I just wanted to find an overview
12:15:21 <planetmaker> well... what does constitute an "overview" in your eyes?
12:15:26 <pva> the closest thing I found is the description of namespaces
12:15:30 <planetmaker> the source files all have well-chosen names
12:16:24 <planetmaker> I also assume, you know tt-forums.net ?
12:16:43 <pva> ok, I just need the edge to start. So again, the first thing I wanted to change was Format(), but it is already featured enough...
12:16:43 <planetmaker> There's quite an active development sub-forum for OpenTTD where a lot of people publish their source patches
12:17:04 <pva> Yes, I have sources and so on.
12:17:05 <planetmaker> From those discussions you might also get an impression on how it works
12:17:38 <pva> Ah, ok. Thanks for the hint
12:17:55 <pva> I didn't dig through forum...
12:19:08 <pva> Ok, one more question: is OpenTTD development independent on TTDPatch dev?
12:19:45 <Eddi|zuHause> fairly independent
12:20:33 <planetmaker> quite. It's different programmes
12:20:44 <planetmaker> They share a common newgrf format for extensions
12:21:10 <dihedral> and do not ask which one is better :-P
12:21:32 <planetmaker> Don't state which one is better either ;-)
12:21:44 <planetmaker> the results will be ugly
12:21:58 <planetmaker> They're different :-)
12:22:10 <pva> I wouldn't get involved into the holy war :)
12:22:36 <pva> I didn't play TTDPatch, so I have nothing to say and to compare with.
12:23:10 <pva> I am interested in OpenTTD, because... it is open
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12:28:34 <pva> Is it available for MacOS X?
12:28:50 <planetmaker> TTDP: no. OpenTTD: yes
12:29:21 <planetmaker> You can earn merits by fixing all OSX-related bugs.
12:29:56 <pva> Unfortunately, I am win/*nix programmer. I just like to use MacOSX
12:30:31 <planetmaker> you use MacOS but programme on win/*nix? That doesn't make sense...
12:31:44 <pva> I _did not_ program for mac os x yet
12:32:05 <pva> I just mean that I have no experience with all this cocoa etc.
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12:33:27 <planetmaker> there's a horde of people "oh, yeah, I want to help. But I don't know how to programme" Especially, if it comes to maintaining the OSX port
12:35:41 <pva> I know how to program for about fifteen years... I see no need of my help now: I thought that there is a problem with 'cases', but there isn't.
12:36:19 <pva> I was impressed with TTD when it appeared and I am impressed still.
12:36:31 <pva> So I want to understand it. That's it.
12:37:09 <pva> I am pretty sure, as soon as I understand details, I will suggest fixes/features.
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12:45:42 <dihedral> <pva> Is it available for MacOS X? <- now i like that comment
12:45:54 <dihedral> so.... are you interested in doing some os x specific coding??
12:46:22 <pva> not yet. I _have_ to understand the project first.
12:46:43 <dihedral> but.... there definately is space for os x coding :-)
12:46:47 <pva> I have already applied for translator to fix the most annoying things.
12:47:11 <pva> And after this I will have a look at max os x coding :)
12:47:42 <pva> But personally, the project is pretty stable under Leopard, why bother? :)
12:47:57 <Xaroth> because it's not pretty and not stable under snow leopard :P
12:48:29 <pva> I have no show leo yet :)
12:50:21 <dihedral> i have not showed leo either
12:50:34 <dihedral> how on earth is leo then ever going to know?
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13:11:10 <marc-andre> i miss brianetta's standard server...
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13:19:39 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd like to mention that "most people" didn't even know about its existence :p
13:20:15 <Rubidium> then why are most people that look for a 'good' server mention brianetta's server?
13:20:50 <marc-andre> and everywhere is nrianetta's server THE reference for a good ottd server
13:21:38 <marc-andre> i'll set up a replacement server for brianetta's standard...
13:22:02 <Noldo> what is it that made it so good?
13:22:11 <marc-andre> the way you played in it
13:22:17 <Rubidium> Noldo: the active moderator!
13:22:38 <planetmaker> a good server needs an admin which is reachable.
13:22:48 <planetmaker> There's at most a hand full of servers which have that
13:23:53 <marc-andre> planetmaker: but not the same rules
13:24:08 <marc-andre> planetmaker: nor the same conditions you played with
13:24:51 <marc-andre> how many times did i go into a server, created a company, built a line and went off for an hour to actually work and come back just to see that my company got cleaned
13:26:10 <LordAzamath> well if they didn't erase your companies, all servers would be full with idle companies
13:26:16 <LordAzamath> for people who actually DONT come back
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13:28:47 <glx> autoclean is ok, but not after 1 hour
13:31:47 <glx> 4 years is quite short for auto clean
13:34:22 <planetmaker> it should be like 30 hours (real-time) or so.
13:34:34 <planetmaker> at least if the game runs longer than a day
13:34:59 <planetmaker> at least for protected companies
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13:38:39 <Splex> when i scroll the map using RMB, the movement is as really slow, much slower than my mouse cursor sensitivity.. anyone else having this problem?
13:39:26 <Eddi|zuHause> Splex: is it the same when the game is paused?
13:39:49 <Eddi|zuHause> yes => it's your graphics driver
13:39:55 <Eddi|zuHause> no => your game is too big
13:40:53 <Splex> same paused as unpaused
13:41:07 <Splex> i tried changing the map size and that doesn't change things
13:41:50 <dihedral> <Rubidium> then why are most people that look for a 'good' server mention brianetta's server? <- most people looking for a good server != most people :-P
13:41:54 <Eddi|zuHause> Splex: then the next information you need to gather is your OS, the backend used, and the blitter used
13:42:20 <Belugas> and the Openttd version
13:42:25 <Belugas> LATEST DOES NOT APPLY
13:43:36 <dihedral> planetmaker, you sould set up a server admind by openttdcoop admins but not played in coop ^^
13:43:56 <Splex> Eddi|zuHause, 0.7.3, Archlinux, 32bpp-anim
13:44:11 <planetmaker> dihedral, we once had a stable 0.7.0 server (when that was current)
13:44:13 <Splex> i tried 32bpp-optimized as well, same problem
13:44:21 <planetmaker> was quite fun actually. But...
13:44:36 <dihedral> planetmaker, there ONCE was a server by brian :-P
13:44:40 <Eddi|zuHause> Splex: and if you try 8bpp?
13:45:06 <planetmaker> yes, once. But dunno whether I want to maintain such server, too
13:45:22 <planetmaker> Only, if I get a proper web interface for managing it.
13:45:29 <planetmaker> e.g. a working web config again
13:45:30 <Splex> Eddi|zuHause, 8bpp-optimized is the same.
13:45:49 <planetmaker> btw, dih, openttdlib seems to act a bit funny lately...
13:45:59 <Eddi|zuHause> Splex: ATI card?
13:46:39 <Eddi|zuHause> Splex: it's most likely your graphic card driver not providing 2D-acceleration
13:46:50 <dihedral> planetmaker, show me
13:47:59 <Splex> Eddi|zuHause, the framerate is fast, also.. it wasn't a problem before in earlier versions
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13:48:25 <Ammler> planetmaker: don't give him a link from openttdcoop.org ;-)
13:48:29 <Splex> Eddi|zuHause, 0.7.2 works great, same settings.
13:49:05 <Ammler> (there something else is buggy, I fear)
13:49:11 <Eddi|zuHause> Splex: then check if it switched between sdl and allegro as backend
13:49:22 <Eddi|zuHause> Splex: other than that, i have no idea
13:49:48 <Ammler> oh we should still start our server called " ! ! ! "
13:51:49 <glx> Splex: start with -d driver1 to check what drivers are used
13:51:51 <Belugas> of course, this is exactly trhe kind of server i'd never connect to...
13:51:58 <Splex> Eddi|zuHause, that is the problem.
13:52:05 <Ammler> Belugas: check the first 10 servers :-D
13:52:06 <Splex> I did -v sdl and all is working
13:52:15 <Splex> strange that it changed the default like that
13:52:39 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure if 0.7.2 even had allegro
13:52:48 <Splex> Eddi|zuHause, I will check
13:53:08 <Splex> Eddi|zuHause, its not an option
13:53:14 <dihedral> Ammler: i would be able to tell if it's openttdcoop or openttdlib :-P
13:53:17 <planetmaker> Ammler, you think it's the publicserver screwing, not openttdlib?
13:53:31 <Ammler> it is since I moved the web to my server
13:53:43 <planetmaker> like ps.openttdcoop.org ?
13:53:46 <Belugas> "There are 130 clients, 180 IPv4 servers and 2 IPv6 servers."
13:53:55 <planetmaker> oh... well. Then it's a good idea indeed to re-do everything :-)
13:53:56 <Belugas> incredible... as always, more servers than clients
13:54:11 <Ammler> KenjiE20: is working on it ;-)
13:54:30 <Belugas> what's the use of so many servers??? Apart comforting the admins ego...
13:54:47 <planetmaker> Belugas, why apart? ;-)
13:55:09 <Ammler> dihedral: I am aware of it's working ;-)
13:55:32 <planetmaker> sorry dih :-) Obviously then it's my mis-conception :-)
13:55:38 <Splex> Eddi|zuHause, thanks for the help
13:55:40 <dihedral> well, you can still show me
13:55:53 <planetmaker> well. ps.openttdcoop.org :-)
13:56:05 <Ammler> such a short grflist but still obsolete grfs in there :-(
13:56:30 <planetmaker> Ammler, I've seen worse. PSG with red marked grfs...
13:56:46 <dihedral> planetmaker, OpenTTDLib_Page_Detail_Info()
13:56:52 <dihedral> go back do brians server
13:57:00 <dihedral> there was a functions.php or something in the theme
13:57:21 <planetmaker> maybe that's it then
13:57:21 <dihedral> at least grep for the function name
13:57:26 <dihedral> in the wordpress folder
13:57:34 <dihedral> i believe you are basically missing that
13:57:35 <Ammler> yeah, everything copied
13:57:51 <Ammler> my server is the issue, maybe fw or a missing lib or so...
13:58:27 <dihedral> yes, it should be in the functions.php
13:58:31 <LordAzamath> Is there any way to make OpenTTD automagically download anything from Bananas without actually having the original graphics. Like a clean install.
13:58:42 <LordAzamath> Or do I have to get them manually :P
13:58:53 <Ammler> afaik windows nightly installer does that
13:59:15 <dihedral> then you are missing the openttdlib install directory
13:59:35 <glx> Ammler: it does, but nightlies don't use installer ;)
13:59:58 <dihedral> that's the thing you would need in functions.php
14:02:29 <dihedral> so in / you need the folder openttdlib ONLY containing the libs
14:09:33 <Ammler> thanks dihedral, I will tell it to our mates :-)
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15:23:28 <Xaroth> you broke your redmine yet? :P
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15:26:57 <Ammler> no, I have no idea, how :-)
15:27:28 <Ammler> but well, the system has 1GB ram, so this might be the difference
15:27:53 <Xaroth> yeh, but using 1gb ram on a single web app is a bit OTT :P
15:28:12 <Ammler> we don't have vm's, everything on the same
15:28:27 <Xaroth> still, what's the mem usage of redmine atm?
15:33:35 <Ammler> 4 rupy processes together use that, yes.
15:34:54 <Ammler> and the apache modul uses another 5%
15:36:49 <Ammler> and around daily, the apache does restart because of either not reachable at all or "derailed"
15:37:32 <Ammler> since I "tunned" mysql, that seems fine
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15:46:13 <Zuu> There are lots of people here :-)
15:46:47 <Stephan> anyway, does anybody know what happened to Brianetta’s standard server?
15:47:07 <Zuu> It was closed because he didn't play on it himself for like a year or so.
15:47:25 <Rubidium> some guy called Brianetta thought he didn't play enough on the server so he decided to stop it
15:47:27 <Stephan> that’s why I wondered
15:47:56 <Stephan> can you give me a hint which servers are aimed at realistic gameplay
15:48:02 <Zuu> Well, how should you be able to take responsibility for a server that you don't play on yourself.
15:48:53 <Stephan> you know, with nice people and no jerks that build stupid networks
15:49:00 <Goulp> what do you mean *realistic gameplay* ?
15:49:20 <Stephan> like not aimed at plain money making or speed
15:49:59 <Rubidium> so, bye bye all servers with 'goal' in their name :)
15:50:20 <Stephan> a server with people that adhere to common sense when building a network
15:50:34 <Stephan> and not scraping through the entire landscape
15:50:40 <Rubidium> then ignore all servers not running your prefered version and servers without clients/companies
15:51:00 <Stephan> Brianetta’s server was really nice actually
15:51:05 <Stephan> something comparable to that
15:51:09 <Rubidium> should leave say... maybe 10% of the servers
15:52:02 <Stephan> and which ones are these 10%? any ideas?
15:52:02 <Rubidium> sometimes ottdcoop might be somewhat for you, although they focus on performance they sometimes have a 'no terraform' rule
15:52:35 <planetmaker> but we usually don't feature more than one company.
15:52:52 <Stephan> ah that means all people work together in one company
15:52:53 <planetmaker> So... what is going to be built is a common decision
15:53:11 <Zuu> dihedral had a nice server, especially when it was called "fair play server".
15:53:13 <planetmaker> that's why we call ourselves #openttd*coop*
15:53:39 <Stephan> fair play… that’s the term I’m looking for, I guess
15:53:41 <planetmaker> also fell into decay...
15:53:57 <pva> isn't it a matter of the game balance? I mean, 'fair play'
15:54:20 <planetmaker> not really, pva. At least to my opinion
15:54:27 <Stephan> yes, sure. but the balance can also be how you build your networks
15:54:57 <Stephan> a well balanced network between profit making and “beauty”, so to speak
15:54:59 <pva> I can win without any network
15:55:09 <pva> just with planes, you know
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15:56:10 <planetmaker> Stephan, that's the balance you have to decide yourself. But not the "game balance" :-)
15:56:14 <Stephan> so there aren’t any servers comparable to Brianetta’s or dihedral’s?
15:56:17 <pva> but it is a bug in my opinion and I usually use it to relax a little bit :)
15:56:23 <planetmaker> pva, not on a server w/o planes ;-)
15:56:46 <planetmaker> ships only server :-D
15:56:55 <planetmaker> ships with yapf pf
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16:20:41 <Zuu> Hmmm, any GRF artists that uses Gimp? Seams that you need a plugin to save the palette from an existing pcx file to something Gimp can use in the color selection palette. :-s
16:22:11 <Zuu> I got an idea for the fizzy drinks industry for OpenGFX.
16:22:37 <Zuu> Oh, nice didn't find those.
16:22:38 <planetmaker> Zuu, do you need basically the TTD palettes for gimp? Or...?
16:23:45 <planetmaker> he, seems you found what you looked for ;-)
16:24:05 <frosch123> [17:21] <Zuu> I got an idea for the fizzy drinks industry for OpenGFX. <- don't forget the special fizzy drink colour cycle :)
16:24:28 <planetmaker> frosch123, that's action colours then :-)
16:24:42 <Zuu> Let me come up with a base first :-)
16:24:46 <planetmaker> so... you might want to use the full newgrf palette
16:25:09 <planetmaker> take your time :-)
16:25:20 <Zuu> A bit further away from my 20 secods paper draft. :-)
16:26:05 <blathijs> Sacro: What's an MP?
16:26:17 <planetmaker> member of parliament?
16:26:37 <Zuu> Ammler: Thanks for that link. Worked good
16:27:41 <Xaroth> < Ammler> and around daily, the apache does restart because of either not reachable at all or "derailed" << in other words, the app is structurally failing and you accept it to do so :P
16:34:15 <Sacro> blathijs: what planetmaker said
16:59:43 <dihedral> i have not hosted a game for a bit now
17:00:02 <dihedral> not entirely sure i want to start it again :-P
17:03:09 <Belugas> please no!!! DON'T!!!!!
17:04:22 <dihedral> well.... of course just to annoy you
17:04:50 * dihedral pats Belugas on the head
17:05:23 <frosch123> dihedral: every server needs some unique property. so use 0.5.0 rc 4
17:06:02 <frosch123> "by dih" is not enough
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17:07:48 <dihedral> 0.5.0 rc4 was in fact the first version i ran as a server :-P
17:09:46 <dihedral> perhaps i'd run one when avignon, the new autopilot, is that far ^^
17:10:24 <Goulp> sur le pont d'avignon...
17:10:37 <dihedral> i hear that everytime!!!
17:13:42 <dihedral> 176 clients, 186 IPv4 servers and 1 IPv6 servers <- just 11 players short.....
17:13:59 <dihedral> then we'd have one player per server :-P
17:14:08 <Zuu> Oh, cool accidently got some action colors for the fizzy drinks. Now the drinks flash :-)
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17:22:15 <Belugas> the flash comes from the sun reflecting on the aluminium of the drink while the user is swalloing it
17:22:35 <Belugas> ... whatever... insatinyy
17:23:27 <dihedral> Belugas you are in a lovely mood today
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17:31:47 <Belugas> yu havent seen me yesterday...
17:33:52 <dihedral> well, then at least you are improving
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17:35:56 <Goulp> one client per server, a client might be a spectator, and not a player
17:36:06 <Belugas> let say that if i didn't kicked anyone would not mean i'm in a gloruious goody mood :)
17:39:48 <dihedral> Goulp: even specs are clients!!!
17:46:06 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: translators * r17896 /trunk/src/lang/ (8 files): (log message trimmed)
17:46:06 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:46:06 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: dutch - 1 changes by habell
17:46:06 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: french - 1 changes by glx
17:46:06 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: german - 1 changes by planetmaker
17:46:07 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: greek - 100 changes by fumantsu
17:46:07 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: indonesian - 2 changes by prof
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18:31:28 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: frosch * r17897 /trunk/src/ (8 files):
18:31:28 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#3255]: CB15 and CB36 (capacity) were not always called when they should.
18:31:28 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Move capacity calculation to a single function for all vehicle types, so the behaviour can be kept consistent easier.
18:33:01 <muep_> if I place a railway station next to an iron ore mine, should I expect iron ore to eventually get there?
18:33:32 <Rubidium> a) at least one train tried to pick it up
18:34:18 <Eddi|zuHause> b) not more than one other station with higher rating is surrounding the mine
18:34:20 <Rubidium> b) you have disabled the 'deliver cargo to station only when there is demand' option
18:35:18 <Rubidium> hmm, for clarity: from my options you need at least one
18:35:37 <Rubidium> and Eddi|zuHause's option is required in any case
18:36:48 <muep_> I had the problem with an iron ore train waiting on the station, but getting no ore from there
18:41:00 <Eddi|zuHause> with some train sets, you have to make sure the wagon is actually refitted to ore
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19:26:14 <Spucoly> Could any one tell me how to open openttd 7.3. I'v set up the .gif and .cat file like in the pre vr's. what am i doing wrong
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19:35:03 <Muxy> double click on the openttd.exe, and read error message if any. Windows, linux, ??
19:35:14 <Zuu> LOL, wondered why I couldn't remove a pink special color pixel just to a few tries realize that it was not pink, but transparent. There was a pink tree behind. (toyland)
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20:16:01 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: frosch * r17898 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (4 files): -Fix: [NoAI] Improve behaviour of (AIEngine|AIEventEnginePreview)::GetCargoType() and AIEngine::CanRefitCargo() wrt. articulated vehicles.
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20:31:32 <dihedral> why do people assume everybody is running windows? :-S
20:32:09 <frosch123> maybe they do not know something else
20:32:44 <frosch123> maybe they do not know about windows either, and take it as synonym for computer
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20:33:54 <Eddi|zuHause> i know people who think the computer is the bright thingie on the desk, and after years wonder what that weird useless box underneath is for
20:34:38 <frosch123> hehe, my mother usually calls it "motor" as it does all the noise
20:36:01 <Chruker> Mine often calls it the CPU
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20:46:46 <Belugas> which make her a little more savvy than the vast majority
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21:03:34 <Zuu> Or was that a greeting? :-s
21:09:50 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: frosch * r17899 /trunk/src/ (7 files): -Codechange: Deduplicate code for refitting vehicles.
21:10:15 <andythenorth> Zuu: greeting :)
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21:10:49 <Ammler> Zuu: would you also like to code the sprites?
21:11:31 <Zuu> I have been able to encode them back into a grf as you might see from the screenshot.
21:11:41 <Zuu> Didn't make any changes to the dimensions or anything.
21:12:57 <Zuu> But at the end it might be easier if i just give you the sprites and possible alignment changes and then you can put them into the set. Since I have no idea how I would do that. I mean do you just keep the entire pcx file or do you have some kind of compiler for that file?
21:15:12 <Ammler> we compile the parts together
21:15:30 <Zuu> Looking at the website I got the impression of that.
21:15:48 <Ammler> but the nfo is still one big file :-)
21:16:11 <Zuu> Sure, but version control for text files is a lot better too :-)
21:16:29 <Ammler> well, you know the address?
21:16:36 <Ammler> if you like to provide a patch :-)
21:17:03 <Zuu> Well, the first step is to actually have some nfo changes. (which I do not have at the moment)
21:17:16 <Ammler> but it is up2you, I guess, we should also be able to include it without patch ;-)
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21:17:36 <Zuu> Not sure if I shall try to resolve the tap-issue before submitting it.
21:17:53 <Zuu> And in that case there will be some nfo involved.
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21:18:18 <Zuu> No, just changing the size of the sprites.
21:18:30 <Zuu> Rubidium just told me that is possible.
21:18:56 <Zuu> But I guess that to big enlargements can cause blitting problems too.
21:20:53 <Eddi|zuHause> maximum sprite size is 256, afaik
21:21:09 <Eddi|zuHause> but i don't really know what you're talking about
21:21:49 <frosch123> Zuu: actually you cannot cut the sprites like that without causing glitches with foundations
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21:22:26 <Zuu> frosch123: Cutting like what?
21:22:45 <Zuu> Like I have done on tt-forums or as I am planing to try?
21:23:12 <Zuu> That was how they appeared in the pcx file I decoded.
21:23:16 <frosch123> put the factory on foundations, and you should see
21:24:03 <frosch123> hmm, oh, maybe you are right
21:24:16 <Zuu> Looks good on foundations here. (with the version that is on tt-forums)
21:25:08 <frosch123> in that case you have to make sure that 4742 and 4741 are cut between the left corner of the south tile and the right corner of the west tile
21:26:30 <Zuu> Okay, then my overlap won't work. Even if it will be mostly transparent?
21:26:47 <frosch123> transparency does not count
21:27:48 <Zuu> "4742 sprites/ogfx1_base.pcx 674 21000 09 78 23 -22 -53" <-- how do I change the width of the sprite (+ 8 pixels)
21:28:11 <frosch123> 78 23 <- that are y and x dimensions
21:28:21 <frosch123> -22 -53 <- that is the offset
21:28:35 <frosch123> i.e. whether you want to enlarge to left/top/right/bottom
21:28:49 <frosch123> mind that size is in y and x, and offset is in x and y
21:30:23 <Eddi|zuHause> that format is usually described in the 3rd line of the NFO
21:30:46 <frosch123> of course you could also press ctrl+b and make sure that the sprites to not extend over their individual bounding boxes
21:31:04 <Zuu> Eddi: You are right, I was too quick on locating the correct line in the file.
21:37:24 <Zuu> Okay testing it, the 4741 sprite is drawn ontop of 4742, so extending the tap "over" that sprite does not help. But I think I'll extend it as much as possible to not make it hover in the air at least. :-)
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21:48:22 <Zuu> Hmm, it is not deterministic which order the different parts appear?
21:50:53 <Rubidium> technically it is (input being 'location' of the tile loop at construction + location of the industry), visually probably not so
21:52:04 <Eddi|zuHause> means it is deterministic, but not constant
21:53:15 <Ammler> afaik the sprites shouldn't overlap anyway
21:53:22 <Ammler> as that migth glitch the transparent mode
21:55:13 <Zuu> Right now there is a small overlap of a few pixels, but I can remove that with the consequence of having a hovering tap for a few seconds.
21:55:57 <Zuu> It looks okay in transparent mode too. But if it is out of principle I can remove it.
21:57:56 <frosch123> Zuu: as all three sprites are drawn in bounding boxes, 4741 is always drawn in front. the other two are not defined in their order
21:59:27 <frosch123> but it might get cropped nevertheless if it extends to far to left and right
21:59:53 <Zuu> Yea, unless i do major work I will have a small glitch at the construction phase. The question is though if I should limit the glitch a bit by having a small overlap of the transparent parts of the sprites.
22:02:12 <Zuu> I could include the tap already in 4738, but then that sprite will need to be moved around a bit in the pcx file, and I rather keep it simple.
22:11:16 <Zuu> Ammler: Unless there is an objection against the slight overlap I think the Fuzzy drinks factory can be added now. I'd better spend my time on the toy factory or something else than polishing the fuzzy drinks factory to death. That a better artist can do later on. :-)
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22:25:22 <Zuu> Ammler: Okay, I guess you have a backup-script runnig right now or something becaue the site is unaccesible. So I'll have to wait a little before reading that.
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