IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-10-24
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00:05:15 <Xaroth> There are always limits
00:05:30 <Sacro> seeing as we managed to break past uint32 XD
00:05:32 <Xaroth> time to see if we can reach that :P
00:05:45 <Sacro> we managed to break past 4.2 billion a year
00:05:46 <Xaroth> 15 oct, 1.3 bil effective income this year.
00:06:11 <Xaroth> did cheat a tiny bit tho :P
00:06:32 <Xaroth> 2048*2048 map with a ton of coal up north, and a powerstation down south :P
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00:19:22 <Xaroth> anyways, back to od...
00:38:16 <AC6000> hey chrill, long time no speak :P
00:38:52 <Chrill> Indeed.. who are you? :p
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02:59:37 <kieran491> Does any one know of a good Ausrtralia Map including citys and industry?
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03:15:13 <Pikka> can't say I do, kieran491
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04:04:33 <kieran491> What are some good extension to openTTD to make the game more challenging and intresting?
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07:29:23 <andythenorth> Pikka: registers are mine
07:29:30 <andythenorth> mwah ha hah haha etc
07:29:43 <andythenorth> All your register belong to us
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07:39:04 <VirginiaTrioli> well done andy :P
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07:39:53 <andythenorth> escaping for dec not hex sorts out the signing issue
07:43:07 <Pikka> oh wait, I think I see why/what you've done. nothing to do with dec vs hex though ;)
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07:45:30 <andythenorth> the text stack is upside down
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07:50:24 <andythenorth> so when I print items from the text stack, it takes the highest register first?
07:51:17 <andythenorth> so it's like array.pop ?
07:51:35 <planetmaker> [09:16] <kieran491> [06:04:34] What are some good extension to openTTD to make the game more challenging and intresting? <-- did you check out the online content?
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07:52:16 <andythenorth> I was expecting it to be like array.shift
07:52:20 <planetmaker> Play with an expensive train set, limit yourself to minimal terraform, maybe use PBI or ECS as industries. Or test the FIRS industry set
07:52:23 <andythenorth> guess I'm wrong, the code it right
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08:00:40 <andythenorth> the pseudo code for industry production is on a piece of paper in the office :O
08:07:41 <andythenorth> nvm I am reading about signing in hex insteas
08:10:39 <Pikka> basically: if your value is > 1/2 the maximum size, it ends up a negative number
08:11:18 <Pikka> one unsigned byte goes from 0 to 255, one signed byte goes from -127 to 127
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08:11:42 <andythenorth> simple really :)
08:11:53 <Noldo> there are both + and - 0 then?
08:13:14 <Rubidium> well... more like 0..127,-128..-1 :)
08:16:29 <Pikka> I'll be glad when the steam locos are done, diesels are so much easier to draw
08:16:43 <Pikka> especially the symmetrical ones
08:17:07 <andythenorth> try industries...big, but only one view :)
08:17:23 <andythenorth> bulldozers fricking suck to draw
08:18:00 <andythenorth> ships sucked at first, but has turned into a copy and paste love-fest
08:18:35 * andythenorth is about to run out of text stack registers
08:19:45 <Pikka> then just two more steamers!
08:20:26 <andythenorth> right I've got 6 dword side registers available on the text stack, and 8 word sized values to display
08:21:03 <andythenorth> this will be fun
08:23:15 <andythenorth> what is a bitwise AND anyway (google time)
08:24:04 <Pikka> result = the bits that were set in both inputs :]
08:25:25 * andythenorth thinks some kind of bit shift is needed
08:25:47 <Pikka> if you want to read the high word of a dword? yes, shift 16 (0x10) bits.
08:26:29 <andythenorth> I need to stuff two words into a dword register...
08:26:47 <Pikka> but won't it then print both as one?
08:27:01 * Pikka doesn't know how the text stack registers work
08:27:42 <andythenorth> seems to just use registers 100-105h
08:28:14 <andythenorth> printing \7C (word) twice seems to pull the first word then the second word from the register
08:28:29 <Pikka> okay, if you have 0000aaaa and 0000bbbb and you want to make aaaabbbb
08:29:27 <Pikka> A, shift 0 AND 0000FFFF, add (operator 00) b shift 16 AND FFFF0000.
08:29:40 <Pikka> sorry, that's the wrong way round, that will give you bbbbaaaa, but you know what I mean.
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08:45:22 <kannerke> I'm currently adding some statistics logging to openttd
08:45:31 <kannerke> incmoe, expenses, etc
08:46:11 <kannerke> I managed to save the yearly expenses of the players company to a file
08:46:28 <kannerke> now, I'm looking to expand this with statistics of each vehicle
08:46:52 <kannerke> is someone familiar with the Vehicle code?
08:47:29 <kannerke> I found the Vehicle->name member is null by default (it's probably used to store a custom name)
08:47:55 <kannerke> I just found the Vehicle->unitnumber member
08:48:49 <Alberth> look in the vehicle details window in vehicle_gui to see how to get various costs
08:48:56 <kannerke> I guess this is just the number that is used for listing the vehicles?
08:48:56 <kannerke> (e.g. train 1, train 2, ship 1, ship 2, ...) ?
08:49:28 <kannerke> do you know where the vehicle class is stored?
08:50:58 <Tefad> you'd probably want to extend the vehicle class with whatever feature you're adding
08:51:02 <Terkhen> the class is not stored at the Vehicle class: Train, Ship, etc are implemented as classes that inherit from Vehicle
08:51:28 <Tefad> i'm sure there are arrays of each type, yes?
08:51:52 <Tefad> i'm not sure where they are
08:51:53 <kannerke> I found the 'VehiclesYearlyLoop' function
08:51:54 <Alberth> Vehicle is at "Definition at line 73 of file vehicle_base.h." says doxygen
08:52:22 <Tefad> where are each players vehicles stored
08:53:08 <kannerke> ah, now, my test code will probably store info of eache vehicle, also from the competitors..
08:53:29 <Tefad> so you iterate through each player and each of the type of vehicle of the player
08:54:03 <Tefad> then each vehicle of that type...
08:55:59 <Terkhen> Tefad: you use the FOR_ALL_TRAINS macro, there is an equivalent one for each vehicle type
08:56:12 <Tefad> talk to kannerke not me
09:00:14 <kannerke> I don't find the vehicles lists for each company
09:00:37 <kannerke> its not in the Company struct
09:02:07 <Terkhen> kannerke: check Vehicle->owner
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09:08:51 <kannerke> Terkhen: thx, for the hint, I added a check for v->owner == _local_company
09:09:16 <kannerke> Terkhen: do you know how I can find out the type of the vehicle?
09:09:32 <kannerke> or can I only find that on some higher level?
09:10:43 <Terkhen> check for example the FOR_ALL_TRAINS macro
09:11:11 <kannerke> just did it: I should probably use FOR_ALL_VEHICLES_OF_TYPE(Train, var) etc :-)
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09:24:55 <Pikka> dinner dinner dinner dinner, batman...
09:25:57 <kannerke> I also has a gameplay question
09:26:48 <kannerke> When you select for instance two bus stations and you let a bus drive between these two, the bus fill full load and unload at the same station
09:26:55 <kannerke> is this the normal behaviour?
09:27:52 <Rubidium> if the station accepts the cargo and you haven't selected 'no unloading' the unloading is expected behaviour
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09:30:38 <kannerke> so, when you want a service between two station, you must list each of them twice?
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09:31:24 <kannerke> ah, I found unload and take cargo
09:31:30 <kannerke> that's probably what I need :)
09:31:48 <kannerke> I have been some time I played the game
09:33:11 <kannerke> that was not a good sentence -> it have been a while since I last played the game ;)
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09:38:58 <kannerke> is the financial data to the road vehicles store in some other currency?
09:39:29 <kannerke> new vehicles cost, construction cost etc is correct
09:39:45 <kannerke> but for instance raod vehicle income is wrong
09:40:22 <kannerke> the game zays 2802 £, my log file says 4294964494
09:40:58 <Rubidium> let me guess, it warned about some printfs?
09:41:04 <kannerke> the same for a particular vehicle: bus 1: 1218 £, the log file says 311346
09:41:09 <thepalm> 4294964494 = FFFFF50E - perhaps negative issue?
09:42:10 <kannerke> for he first is is possible, I guess I forgot to change %u by %d
09:42:21 <kannerke> but for the vehicle is should be correct
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09:42:33 <Rubidium> money is in int64, chances are quite big that you're printing int32s
09:42:57 <Rubidium> which basically means the stack might get a bit mixed up causing printf to print different values
09:45:17 <kannerke> yes, I'm running an 64bit os
09:45:35 <kannerke> I'll check about printing values
09:47:14 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17850 /trunk/src/ (4 files): -Codechange: remove most usage of delta on OnResize
09:50:19 <Pikka> ttdpatch has a "statistics" button on the company info which shows how much cargo the company has transported.. that would be pretty cool in OTTD... :P
09:52:18 <Rubidium> Pikka: but that isn't enough for those 'statistics' hooligans
09:52:48 <Pikka> it'd still be pretty cool!
09:53:07 <Rubidium> they'd probably only be happy if you printed out *each* expense and income and said who/what caused it
09:54:08 <Rubidium> e.g. one deduction of running costs a year wouldn't be enough, they need to know how much is spent on personnel, new/revised parts, fuel, etc.
09:55:06 <andythenorth> code an option. mega-stats, but they *have* to only use maglev
09:55:45 <andythenorth> right enough nfo, time for domestic crap
09:57:36 <kannerke> added more statistic is part of my goal
09:58:14 <kannerke> but I'll log al data to files so external tools can make nice graphs or generate alerts
09:58:40 <kannerke> when logging of vehicle data works fine, I'll start checking out station statistics
10:00:14 <kannerke> I found the wrong road vehicle income issue:
10:00:23 <kannerke> that value seems to be shifted << 8
10:00:35 <kannerke> shifting >> 8 solved it :-)
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10:06:20 <Alberth> afaik those are fractions
10:08:37 <Xaroth> heh, 3 billion income from 2 stations connected :P
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10:09:17 <Xaroth> around 50 coal mines all at max production and there's more trains to take the cargo than there is cargo created..
10:09:41 <MyCatVerbs> andythenorth: I like Toyland.
10:09:46 <MyCatVerbs> Maglev, not so much.
10:10:14 <YoG_> Hi, I'm playing cargodist and the sound stutter somewhat, any ideas how can I improve it?
10:11:20 <YoG_> I forgot to mention, I'm on ubuntu and I compiled the latest code
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10:32:51 <CaptObvious> is there an easier way to upgrade rail->monorail or monorail->maglev than manually replacing all of my trains?
10:33:28 <|Jeroen|> can't it be done with autoreplace ?
10:33:52 <Xaroth> how do you want to fit a monorail train into a maglev depot?
10:34:23 <andythenorth> yay, I now have the pseudo code for my industries...thanks to the magic of the internets, it's not stuck in my office :D
10:35:58 <CaptObvious> I've finally realised that with long trains is better to use double locomotives
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10:36:40 <Xaroth> I always do max 8 carriages per dual-head
10:37:01 <CaptObvious> I'm running 24-long trains
10:37:10 <Xaroth> so a 15 tile length station will have trains with 3 dual-heads and 24 carraiges
10:39:56 <Xaroth> especially for heavy stuff like coals it's mandatory, else your trains take ages to get to max speed :P
10:40:11 <Xaroth> for passengers you can probably go for 13 carriages per dual-head
10:40:56 <CaptObvious> how would you do it?
10:41:01 <Xaroth> 2x 45 degree corners ruin yer speed
10:42:40 <Xaroth> i usually go for the 2nd or the 4th
10:43:41 <CaptObvious> bridges will slow trains down in the 4th one
10:43:49 <|Jeroen|> i always go out the other way
10:43:52 <CaptObvious> also, is it not better to use tunnels as they have no speed limit?
10:44:15 <Xaroth> but tunnels take up a bit more space
10:44:38 <Rubidium> that's definitely how I would NOT build a station entrance
10:44:46 <Xaroth> that said, I use #2 more than #4
10:45:16 <Xaroth> mainly because #4 is made for bigger stations, and I tend make my stations longer vs wider.
10:49:06 <Xaroth> er, yes, I would personally make a small modification to that
10:49:17 <Xaroth> add around 4 tiles of straight before starting the crossovers
10:49:38 <Xaroth> so you can make a line of two-way PBS with signal pointing to station in front
10:49:59 <Xaroth> on the bottom 4 lanes add a 2nd pbs pointing the same way
10:50:12 <Xaroth> with those added signals trains entering will prefer the top 4 lanes when possible
10:50:19 <Xaroth> which should increase the exit flow
10:50:26 <Xaroth> lemme demonstrate, one sec
10:51:01 <CaptObvious> and is it right for a PBS signal to be red if there's a train in the station?
10:51:33 <Xaroth> they don't calculate whether it's ok to go until a train is approaching
10:52:15 <YoG_> how can I change the audio buffer size for sdl?
10:52:29 <CaptObvious> oh nice, so if I'm making a cheap and nasty exit by just doing a crossover on my main line I can use a PBS there so trains can go in both directions through the junction at the same time?
10:53:18 <Alberth> yes, you can have several trains in the same block with pbs
10:53:28 <CaptObvious> first time I've heard of them
10:53:40 <CaptObvious> just started on openttd again yesterday, they weren't in last time I played
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10:55:35 <Xaroth> as you can see, the first train (that is now exiting) prefered the two top lanes because they have one less signal impeding his path
10:55:52 <Xaroth> which means that at this point a train can both enter and exit
10:56:07 <Xaroth> because the entering train will go to the bototm because he can't go top
10:56:15 <CaptObvious> so I put 2 signals in the bottom half, one signal in the top half?
10:56:58 <Alberth> even no signal will work
10:57:11 <Xaroth> no signal will work, but it won't do penalty lanes properly
10:57:42 <Xaroth> not that it matters a lot, it just improves flow if there's not that many trains in station
10:57:57 <CaptObvious> so if a train is exiting from one of the top platforms and another train comes along, it'll select one of the bottom 4 platforms to use?
10:59:27 <Xaroth> hah i just made an 11 million train..
10:59:37 <CaptObvious> how'd you manage that?
10:59:58 <Xaroth> and look at the date on that screenshot :P
11:00:35 <Xaroth> trying to see how much income I can generate :P
11:00:55 <Rubidium> YoG_: try -s sdl:hz=11025
11:00:56 <CaptObvious> I'd guess lots, but industries must be pretty sparse by then
11:01:08 <Xaroth> nah, i'm not doing it the ordinary way
11:01:13 <Xaroth> just a plain old brute force :P
11:01:34 <Xaroth> got around 60-70 coal mines up on top with each >1000 producing and other end of map some power stations
11:02:13 <Xaroth> just to see how far i can push the limit :P
11:03:21 <YoG_> Rubidium: Great, thanks, hz=22000 did the trick (11025 did not work - I didn't get any sound)
11:04:03 <Rubidium> YoG_: then you're getting screwed by a sdl-pulseaudio bug
11:04:53 <YoG_> Rubidium: um... I'm using alsa
11:05:31 <Rubidium> are you really sure? not sdl -> pulseaudio-alsa -> pulseaudio -> alsa?
11:05:55 <Rubidium> cause that's kinda default for ubuntu
11:06:41 <YoG_> Rubidium: I'm not sure, but when I run with SDL_AUDIO_DRIVER=pulse, I get no sound... and... it's not a deafult installation of ubuntu, I'm running it on arm machine
11:06:55 <Xaroth> heh, 11 mil for a trainload from one end of map to the other :P
11:07:23 <YoG_> Rubidium: how can I check which sound system is running on my machine?
11:08:50 <YoG_> Rubidium: anyway... I don't think I have pulse installed there... btw, what's the pulseaudio bug?
11:09:25 <Rubidium> that for some reason a huge amount of CPU is wasted for resampling the sound
11:09:57 <YoG_> yeah... that sounds bad... any workaround for that?
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11:10:12 <Rubidium> setting the 'output' sampling rate of OpenTTD to something else seems to help in 100% times the bug occurs, which I've only seen from people using ubuntu
11:11:17 <YoG_> what's the default? 44000?
11:11:21 <Rubidium> YoG_: sounddriver = sdl:hz=22050 or so in your config file; there's already a sounddriver line in there
11:13:09 <Rubidium> which is kinda a defacto standard as that's the sampling rate of CDs
11:13:27 <CaptObvious> just a quickie cos I'm late leaving for work
11:13:44 <CaptObvious> but anyone know if the iPhone port of OpenTTD in cydia is gonna be updated to the latest version?
11:14:05 <Rubidium> I reckon the person developing that knows
11:14:13 <CaptObvious> ah, it's not an openttd team thing?
11:14:32 <CaptObvious> right, off to work, bye all
11:14:33 <YoG_> Rubidium: my machine doesn't like the 22050 rate (no sound) just the 22000...
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11:17:51 <YoG_> Rubidium: indeed... but it works so I don't complain ;-)
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11:27:18 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: I now enabled the debug mode of the production website (which is always a bad thing, but okay)
11:27:37 <TrueBrain> next time someone gets an upload failure of BaNaNaS, I need the exact error (in high detail, including local variables, function-tracelog, etc etc)
11:28:14 <SpComb> and an interactive debugger? :)
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11:36:02 <Luukland> 3 of my servers in top 5 hmmm
11:36:35 <Luukland> Can someone provide me with a server in Spain or Italy?
11:36:43 <Luukland> I need to have some backup servers there
11:36:48 <Rubidium> no you don't need more servers... there're more than enough already
11:36:56 <TrueBrain> sure; 50 euro a month okay?
11:37:23 <Luukland> Depends, is it in Italy or Spain?
11:37:37 <TrueBrain> that can be arranged
11:37:58 <Luukland> But that means... That you are just a merchant...
11:38:18 <TrueBrain> I sell VPSes all over the world :p
11:38:39 <Luukland> I see, can't you make "special price" for me?
11:39:04 <TrueBrain> by the fact that you didn't even asked for the specs of a 50 euro machine, I would have to say: no :)
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11:39:56 <Luukland> dang, will have to start my secret server takeover scenario
11:40:25 <Luukland> Or I must kill you before you tell anyone esle...
11:41:07 <TrueBrain> 106 people to kill, of which at least 3 are not real people and 2 of them log directly on the web ... good luck ;)
11:41:26 <Luukland> Then I must activate another secret scenario
11:41:30 <Luukland> Which i wont tell ^^
11:41:35 <Luukland> Muwhahaha (evil laughter)
11:41:37 <YoG_> I didn't read anything about youre secret scenario...
11:42:43 <Luukland> <@Rubidium> there're more than enough already <--- Well, it seems like the servers lack attraction
11:43:53 <Luukland> To you maybe, but mine are currently growing like crops in Africa
11:44:32 <Luukland> Maybe I should have said France :P
11:44:42 <TrueBrain> nothing grows in France
11:44:42 <Luukland> or children in India
11:44:44 <TrueBrain> there only things die
11:44:54 <Luukland> I hope Belugas didn't hear that
11:45:05 <TrueBrain> he doesnt live in France, so he wouldnt mind
11:45:50 <Luukland> There are 201 clients, 180 IPv4 servers
11:46:00 <Luukland> Do you happen to know what was max clients ever online?
11:46:11 <Luukland> Or don't "they" keep track of those things...
11:48:21 <Luukland> Do you happen to know where I can find Ex? (the server admin)
11:48:32 <Luukland> I need to ki.., brib..., I mean speak to him...
11:48:54 <TrueBrain> you are not at all hostile, are you?
11:50:16 <Luukland> If I lose my temper maybe
11:50:30 <TrueBrain> well, I read you wanted to kill at least 2 people in the last 10 minutes :p
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11:51:08 <Luukland> True, maybe I am a kill
11:51:28 <TrueBrain> dutch people tend to be psycopats, yes
11:51:30 <Luukland> Or maybe I am Chizofrenic
11:53:07 <Luukland> Stil I need to get that monopoly
11:54:50 <Luukland> Which means I need to get Ex to work with me
11:55:38 <TrueBrain> so I am not sure, are you Pinky or the Brain?
11:55:53 <planetmaker> hm... what happened to src/ottdres.rc.in ?
11:56:32 <TrueBrain> I ATE IT! I was so hungry ....
11:57:57 <planetmaker> uh... it's quite tough to chew on it, I guess.
11:59:00 <TrueBrain> it was hidden under the rock? :)
12:01:16 <planetmaker> A big boulder called windows rolled nearly over it.
12:01:48 <planetmaker> yeah. But previously it was running around in the wild, unharmed by ./os/windows ;-)
12:01:59 <planetmaker> now it got enslaved by that folder
12:04:38 <TrueBrain> so as OSX user, why are you interested in that file? :)
12:05:04 <Luukland> He wants to sabotage it!
12:05:05 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: update of the infrastructure sharing repository
12:05:17 <planetmaker> and I like to release something called IS2.0-beta4 :-)
12:29:42 <AC6000> thought i had the wrong channel ^^;
12:30:38 <AC6000> possible brain fart... :I
12:39:43 <Luukland> Here comes another brain
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13:34:18 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: Rubidium: may I ask you to build a new version of the infrastructure sharing repository, please?
13:34:35 <planetmaker> I think, SmatZ will approve :-)
13:35:47 <TrueBrain> hg://mz.openttdcoop.org/hg/is2 right?
13:36:15 <planetmaker> you should still have also the data / login for where to transfer the resulting binaries
13:36:35 <planetmaker> e.g. the key is still active
13:36:53 <TrueBrain> I started the schedule .. we will see what it does :p
13:37:15 <TrueBrain> it is sitll (trying) to get the hg
13:37:33 <planetmaker> changed a few revisions ;-)
13:37:43 <TrueBrain> hg over http is just very slow
13:37:54 <planetmaker> you could use hg over hg ;-)
13:38:23 <planetmaker> but doesn't matter I guess :-)
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13:42:13 <Ammler> does hg have it's own transfer protocol?
13:42:49 <Ammler> you mean the thing with hg serve?
13:44:25 <planetmaker> Ammler: no: hg pull ...
13:44:35 <planetmaker> if you don't specify a http address
13:44:40 <planetmaker> but login via ssh
13:45:19 <Ammler> then it is hg over ssh :-)
13:46:03 <TrueBrain> ssh indeed is a transfer protocol
13:46:58 <Ammler> well, but not really hg's own
13:47:12 <TrueBrain> lol ... that is a wrong conclusion my friend :)
13:47:19 <TrueBrain> svn can also be done over ssh
13:47:27 <TrueBrain> does it means it isn't using SVNs own protocol?
13:47:44 <TrueBrain> SSH is a carrier, nothing more
13:48:50 <Ammler> same with http in that case, isn't?
13:49:01 <TrueBrain> http is a protocol, even a transfer protocol
13:49:20 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: alberth * r17851 /trunk/src/ (vehicle_gui.cpp vehicle_gui.h): -Codechange: Use pure nested widgets for the view-vehicle window.
13:50:01 <Ammler> nvm, we speak in different languages :-)
13:50:13 <Alberth> test worked, we can still do svn protocol over ssh
13:51:00 <Alberth> Ammler: in network land, it is normal to use one protocol in context of another.
13:51:35 <Alberth> eg, Unix has UDP, which is used to make TCP, which is used to make HTTP, which is used for hg
13:51:38 <TrueBrain> easiest examples are lower-level protocols: IP, TCP, Ethernet, ..
13:52:06 <TrueBrain> neither transfer .. they only carry :)
13:52:32 <TrueBrain> I guess HTTP is a hybrid, when looking at it like that
13:52:35 <Ammler> Alberth: so hg does also use http for ssh?
13:52:52 <TrueBrain> it uses file:// I believe :)
13:53:27 <Noldo> udp isn't used to make tcp
13:53:29 <Eddi|zuHause> so, if you're going to discuss protocols, what happened to OSI layers?
13:53:31 <Ammler> I would think it makes the bundles and then transfer those over http or directly with ssh
13:53:41 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: they still exist, dah :p
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13:55:57 <Alberth> Ammler: hg needs to transfer contents, and it uses a transfer protocol to do that. SSH and HTTP are both usable for that. (and I guess HTTPS too, but I don't know whether that is done)
13:56:43 <Ammler> yep, so we still don't have its own hg protocol, do we?
13:57:02 <Alberth> Noldo: technically your are right, IP is the common protocol, but UDP is a very thin layer :)
13:57:47 <Noldo> multiplexing is a feature!
13:57:49 <Alberth> Ammler: in URL speak, that would be 'hg://' not sure it exist.
13:58:30 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: alberth * r17852 /trunk/src/ (vehicle_gui.cpp vehicle_gui.h): -Codechange: Use viewport nested widget in the view-vehicle window.
13:58:32 <Ammler> yes, and that was my inital question, as I am not aware of it iehter.
13:58:55 <Alberth> well, it is open source, you can have a look :)
13:59:04 <TrueBrain> and that wasn't your question ;)
13:59:17 <TrueBrain> mercurial uses, as far as I know, raw file access to access repos
13:59:36 <TrueBrain> which makes it extremely slow in some situations :(
13:59:42 <TrueBrain> like git over http .. brrr slow :(
13:59:56 <Ammler> well, git has its protocol
14:00:24 <Ammler> doies openttd support that?
14:00:56 <Ammler> or soemthing like it...
14:02:52 <TrueBrain> I can only suggest to try it
14:07:18 <Ammler> TrueBrain: well, that sounded like a yes :-)
14:07:39 <TrueBrain> I don't deploy things partly ... I hate doing that. Well I had to for NoAI, but I still dislike that :(
14:07:49 <TrueBrain> oh, and Redmine sucks
14:08:15 <TrueBrain> (for 'repositories' is needs about twice the memory it normally is using, and if it isn't avaialble, it starts serving 500 pages, never to retry again)
14:08:48 <Ammler> I once loaded openDUNE in our redmine
14:08:56 <Ammler> Xaroth: wasn't able to break it :-)
14:09:55 <TrueBrain> if you have enough memory available, it is never a problem
14:10:11 <TrueBrain> for OpenDUNE is requires 300 MiB of free RAM for certain revisions
14:10:12 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound)
14:10:14 <TrueBrain> which I call an insane amount :(
14:11:38 <Ammler> do you get the message "Redmine deraild", if that happens?
14:12:00 <TrueBrain> no, it tells in the log that it is out of memory, and serves a 500 page
14:12:16 <TrueBrain> I believe "Insufficient memory to serve page blabla" or something closely like it
14:12:39 <Ammler> I had that with redmine-mysql
14:13:18 <TrueBrain> when I created 300 MiB of 'free' memory, it started to serve that page, only to use 10 MiB or RAM more ..
14:13:38 <TrueBrain> which to me reads something like: I AM POORLY WRITTEN SOFTWARE AND I NEED TO BE REPLACED
14:14:40 <Ammler> but those memory limits are reached only in short timeframes, then it went back to ~0?
14:14:52 <Ammler> I would need something to debug that
14:15:07 <Ammler> never saw big mem usage for redmine.
14:15:14 <TrueBrain> OpenDUNE! :p Create a VPS with, say, 50 MiB of RAM free after launching a single redmine thread, and enjoy
14:15:39 <TrueBrain> as I said: it doesn't use it, it just needs it (well, maybe for bursts, but it doesn't show up anywhere)
14:15:51 <TrueBrain> mind the 'free memory' limitation
14:15:55 <Ammler> if you browse around there, the memory doesn't rise
14:16:09 <TrueBrain> I believe I do write in a different language then the one you read :(
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14:30:19 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: please confirm IS2 is uploaded correctly?
14:31:26 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: looks fine. Thanks a lot!
14:32:30 <planetmaker> infrastructure sharing
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14:54:20 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17853 /trunk/src/ (26 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: remove the 'delta' parameter from OnResize; it was used in ways that aren't always wanted, causing bugs and the like. Also with nested widgets most reasons for handling OnResize have gone.
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15:19:18 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: alberth * r17854 /trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Merge different cases of setting widget data together in the view vehicle window.
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15:40:37 <Xaroth> Ammler: when a piece of software requires 300+ mem assigned to it to serve a single repository, it's flawed.. heck, even websvn does it all within the bounds of a single php instance
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15:42:02 <Ammler> Xaroth: I wasn't able to reproduce it, but maybe I am simply not able to debug that. :-)
15:42:31 <Xaroth> you don't have to either, we switched to separete packages that in combination, work better :)
15:43:04 <Ammler> well, we still run redmine
15:43:33 <Xaroth> if it works for you, use it :)
15:43:42 <Ammler> until now, I blamed apache and mysql if somehting failed
15:44:43 <Xaroth> apache and mysql are both mature enough to not be -that- lacking.
15:45:35 <Ammler> you didn't use apache anyway...
15:46:17 <Xaroth> but it's a known issue with apache as well :)
15:46:21 <Ammler> the funny thing is, those use redmine too :-)
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15:47:04 <Ammler> as I looked for alternative to apache, I found redmine ;-)
15:47:07 <andythenorth> Rubidium: what are the chances of have more registers available to the text stack? Even if it was a patch, not trunk?
15:47:12 <andythenorth> I have a use for them...
15:51:51 <frosch123> andythenorth: maybe you want a patch that displays all persistant registers? :p
15:52:41 <andythenorth> frosch123: omg, something resembling a debugger? wtf, lol etc :P
15:53:01 <andythenorth> I can't think what the gui would look like for that
15:53:38 <andythenorth> say 200 industries on a map, 16(?) persistent registers per industry....
15:53:39 <frosch123> showing some registers should be possible, tracing and singlestepping action2 would be very hard
15:53:58 <andythenorth> but my industry text window solution is *neat* dammit :P
15:54:06 <andythenorth> only involves about 20 lines of pointless code
15:54:08 <frosch123> lol, of course it would be shown in the industry gui and not for all industries at once :p
15:54:29 <andythenorth> frosch123: well it would be mighty useful if such a thing were possible :)
15:54:59 <frosch123> however, if you want to show more registers you would at first have to store multiple stuff in one register to not always have to print dwords
15:55:29 <andythenorth> yep, that is what I haven't figured out yet.
15:55:46 <andythenorth> Pikka gave me pseudo code this morning, but I haven't converted it to nfo
15:55:52 <andythenorth> or at least, nfo that works anyway
15:56:04 <andythenorth> I don't *need* it right now, it would just be handy
15:57:41 <andythenorth> frosch123: you've seen this?
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16:01:00 <andythenorth> cool, I'll try it now
16:05:29 <andythenorth> oh. it really is time for a new grfcodec for me :(
16:08:16 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I can't find grfcodec page on the devzone?
16:09:01 <planetmaker> ^ nightlies of both
16:09:45 <andythenorth> planetmaker: remind me, where do I put them on a mac? /bin ?
16:10:00 <frosch123> hmm, planetmaker: how often did you quote those two links in the last 7 days?
16:10:13 <planetmaker> frosch123: dunno. countless times
16:10:27 <planetmaker> andythenorth: I'd put them in /usr/bin
16:10:36 <planetmaker> or in /usr/local/bin
16:10:46 <planetmaker> dunno if the latter is in the search path by default
16:11:28 * frosch123 has symbolic links from /usr/local/bin to the checkout
16:12:19 * andythenorth wanted that too, but couldn't work it out...which is why I hadn't bothered updating
16:12:23 <andythenorth> a problem for another day
16:15:08 <planetmaker> andythenorth: if you download it always to the same location: sudo ln -s /usr/bin/renum /Users/<your-login>/path/to/renum
16:20:07 <andythenorth> planetmaker: mac version of grfcodec working flawlessly
16:20:26 <andythenorth> renum not so happy...it will be a local config issue, but I'm deep in nfo
16:20:38 <planetmaker> what does "not so happy" mean?
16:21:08 <planetmaker> hm... how do I tell configure to NOT use CXXFLAGS=-std=gnu++0x ?
16:21:37 <andythenorth> planetmaker 'not so happy' means...didn't work
16:21:56 <planetmaker> hm, strange. Mine works. But then I've built it myself
16:22:04 <andythenorth> NFORenum v3.4.6 r2251 - Copyright 2004-2009 Dale McCoy.
16:22:04 <andythenorth> Could not open output file "sprites/firs.nfo.new" for input "sprites/firs.nfo".
16:22:05 <andythenorth> make: [sprites/firs.nfo] Error 6 (ignored)
16:22:54 <planetmaker> that doesn't look like a renum error
16:23:20 <planetmaker> well... I've seen similar somewhen...
16:23:27 <Rubidium> planetmaker: you don't, why would you?
16:23:55 <planetmaker> Rubidium: what do you mean?
16:24:21 <planetmaker> andythenorth: you certainly have write permission in the sprite dir, do you?
16:24:36 <Rubidium> planetmaker: you don't remove -std=gnu++0x from CXXFLAGS
16:24:52 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I'm knee deep in text control chars :D I'll check in a bit
16:24:57 <planetmaker> Ah. Yes, I would like to: cc1plus: error: unrecognized command line option "-std=gnu++0x"
16:25:08 <planetmaker> ^ that's what our IS2 server tells me when I try to compile
16:25:18 <planetmaker> gcc 4.4 on suse linux
16:25:52 <Rubidium> and you'll have to remove the lines that add it from configure
16:26:09 <Rubidium> gcc 4.3 and higher have that command line option according to my man page
16:26:10 <planetmaker> since when is this added to configure?
16:26:35 <Rubidium> use svn praise to find out when exactly
16:30:58 <andythenorth> planetmaker: your code worked perfectly :)
16:31:18 <planetmaker> andythenorth: but I didn't add much code, did I?
16:31:32 <andythenorth> frosch123: your code worked perfectly :)
16:31:43 <andythenorth> although putting 3 words into 2 dword registers, then printing them with the correct control codes made my brain hurt
16:32:11 <andythenorth> took a bit of though
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16:36:07 <andythenorth> actually \7C \7C \7B if anyone cares!
16:45:23 <andythenorth> awesome, I now have potentially double the amount of debug information
16:45:40 <andythenorth> and a new grfcodec that understands escapes
16:45:47 <andythenorth> is it christmas already? :)
16:47:12 <frosch123> you can even teach it new escapes now :p (though i never tried)
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16:53:11 <andythenorth> unexpected...hmm. Is there a persistent register 0x00
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17:08:49 <andythenorth> writing nfo with some at least *some* debug is almost fun
17:08:57 <andythenorth> less of a black box :)
17:22:35 <frosch123> uhm, someone knows whether planes refitted to tourists carry mail in ttdp
17:23:37 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
17:25:51 * frosch123 wonders whether joining #tycoon would be of any use, or whether it would just be annoying
17:26:44 <TrueBrain> frosch123: more annoying than being here? :)
17:27:39 <frosch123> it is never annoying when you are here. no idea why
17:27:54 <TrueBrain> I dunno if I have to say thank you, or sorry .. :p
17:28:17 <SmatZ> how hard it would be to make this place annoying?
17:28:31 <SmatZ> maybe kick for asking questions
17:28:56 <TrueBrain> better yet, kick for answering them :p
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17:28:58 <DorpsGek> frosch123: yorick was last seen in #openttd 2 hours, 16 minutes, and 2 seconds ago: <yorick> hello
17:29:11 <frosch123> oh, he was even here
17:29:18 <SmatZ> it became annoying for him here :-p
17:29:32 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: kieran491 was last seen in #openttd 13 hours, 24 minutes, and 58 seconds ago: <kieran491> What are some good extension to openTTD to make the game more challenging and intresting?
17:30:17 <Alberth> not a man of many words
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17:32:07 <andythenorth> if using the production callback, what happens if more than 65k of cargo is delivered? Does cargo waiting overflow to a negative amount?
17:32:53 <Alberth> andythenorth: you have a 17 bit value?
17:32:54 <Eddi|zuHause> surplus cargo is thrown away, but still paid for
17:33:17 <SmatZ> hmm someone(tm) should finish the work
17:33:23 <SmatZ> and let it return to unloading vehicle
17:33:43 <Eddi|zuHause> well, it should be...
17:34:08 <Alberth> SmatZ: nah, just extend it to 32 bit :p
17:34:21 <TrueBrain> and a good day to you too pyhfol
17:34:29 <SmatZ> well callback can stop accepting cargo "anytime"
17:34:33 <pyhfol> quick question - is it possible to connect to a dedicated server from the same network as the host?
17:34:54 <SmatZ> ottd can bind on multiple addresses afaik
17:35:20 <andythenorth> I don't really care if 65k is the cap, as long as it doesn't overflow to negative :)
17:35:24 <Rubidium> SmatZ: trunk yes, 0.7 only via 0.0.0.0
17:35:24 <pyhfol> sorry i should clarify
17:35:29 <andythenorth> It's an *insane* amount of cargo anyway
17:35:34 <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: but this is not about stopping acceptance, it is about having more input than can ever be processed
17:35:43 <pyhfol> the dedicated is to be accessible via the net also
17:36:00 <Alberth> andythenorth: if it overflows to negative, it happens at 32768 with 16 bit
17:36:11 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: yeah, internally it's both done in one function
17:36:26 <Rubidium> pyhfol: you're using some DSL/Cable modem/router, right?
17:36:42 <andythenorth> yep, wiki says ~32k for input cargo
17:36:51 <Rubidium> in that case enter the IP in "Add server"
17:36:56 <pyhfol> home network, broadcasting the ded server for everyone else, but unable to play from my other pc
17:37:13 <pyhfol> in the network config? *looks*
17:37:15 <frosch123> andythenorth: it only says you cannot process more than 32k at once
17:37:29 <Rubidium> pyhfol: no, in the multiplayer window
17:37:46 <Rubidium> as in start OpenTTD -> Multiplayer -> Add server
17:37:51 <andythenorth> frosch123: oh well that would be fine too
17:37:51 <pyhfol> just the lan ip? *tries both*
17:37:59 <Rubidium> yes, the internal IP
17:38:18 <andythenorth> actually it might not be fine
17:38:49 <Rubidium> 'cause most DSL/Cable modems/routers can't/won't forward packets coming from the internal network via the external IP back to an internal IP, which is basically what happens when you 'Find servers'
17:39:07 <Alberth> rocks are very heavy, 32k is not that much?
17:39:11 <pyhfol> yeah i figured as much, still no joy
17:39:57 <Rubidium> did you set a different port or so?
17:40:02 <andythenorth> just trying to make sure I don't get myself into a confuddle with hex maths
17:40:08 <pyhfol> Rubidium: do i need to bind the dedicated to the internal ip?
17:40:36 <pyhfol> ports are set and forwarded. I can see the server listed, just cant connect, from any pc or os
17:40:41 <Rubidium> pyhfol: it only has one (internal) IP I reckon
17:41:10 <pyhfol> but is it listening for internal connections?
17:41:12 <Rubidium> unless you have a fancy network layout and then I'm not very useful
17:41:18 <andythenorth> So if more than 32k cargo is waiting (call that n), and I do min(n,21k), there is no chance I'll get n instead of 21k due to overflow into negative?
17:41:46 <pyhfol> nah, just run o the mill
17:41:51 <Rubidium> pyhfol: that depends on the network layout you've got, but generally if you do not bind to an IP OpenTTD listens on all ports
17:43:41 <frosch123> andythenorth: hmm, actualy the negative input might now work in ottd
17:44:39 <frosch123> well, it works when registers are used, and they are 32bit anyway
17:45:28 <andythenorth> frosch123: does that affect the min(n,21k) case I gave above?
17:45:42 <frosch123> if you use dword access, everything should be fine
17:45:56 <frosch123> and you need the signed min of course
17:49:06 <pyhfol> Rubidium: any other ideas?
17:51:22 <Alberth> pyhfol: you are listening at 0.0.0.0 for openttd 0.7?
17:52:41 <Alberth> otherwise a firewall may block lan traffic
17:54:38 <pyhfol> Tried on several PC's, one linux, one win firewalls on neither
17:55:07 <pyhfol> the binded ip in the network config is 0.0.0.0
17:55:21 <pyhfol> and yes, running 0.7.3
17:55:27 <Alberth> ok, so that should not be the problem :)
17:55:46 <Alberth> you enabled both udp and tcp?
17:55:53 <pyhfol> i was gonna cry if what rudi had said before was going to work
17:55:54 <Alberth> otherwise I am fresh out of ideas
17:56:02 <pyhfol> yeah, both tcp n udp forwarded
17:56:25 <pyhfol> even tried putting the host into DMZ
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17:57:03 <pyhfol> its clearly a networking issue that im either to stupid to figure out or too blind to see
17:57:21 <pyhfol> meanwhile, my cousin is in the game and no doubt monopolised me now
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17:57:50 <Alberth> you could try localhost
17:58:10 <SHADOW-XIII> looking for OTTD icons in SVG format (or 128/256px PNG/ICO)
17:58:41 <Alberth> run a OpenTTD client at the server
17:59:07 <pyhfol> just a pain in the ass
17:59:18 <pyhfol> i rather cmd prompt to gui :P
17:59:50 <Rubidium> SHADOW-XIII: tried the media directory of a trunk checkout?
17:59:56 <Rubidium> pyhfol: got no ideas for you anymore
18:00:46 <SHADOW-XIII> @Rubidium: but in the trunk will be not those from morphium
18:01:13 <Rubidium> SHADOW-XIII: then I have no clue; wasn't around back then
18:01:29 <Rubidium> haven't even heard of that guy
18:01:44 <SHADOW-XIII> he had 3 posts in 2004
18:01:49 <SHADOW-XIII> but icons are awesome
18:02:39 <TrueBrain> why do you want 'OpenTTD' icons which are not the official OpenTTD icons?
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18:03:48 <andythenorth> I want to divide one constant by another in advanced varaction 2
18:04:38 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: yorick was last seen in #openttd 2 hours, 51 minutes, and 41 seconds ago: <yorick> hello
18:04:51 <andythenorth> I need operator 06
18:04:55 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: still the same ;)
18:05:42 <TrueBrain> LOL! I put on the movie: 2012 Supernova .... I am already regretting it .. the intro already contains more than one flaw :p
18:06:26 <TrueBrain> things like 'fire' explosions in space .. supernova means a BIG explosion of a 'planet' like thingy (it does not) ... this is going to be fun :)
18:07:22 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: well... if you're going to complain... *any* sci-fi to do with space in any way is flawed (sound in a vacuum?)
18:07:47 <TrueBrain> well, to say ANY sci-fi has sound in vacuum is a bit overgenerlized
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18:08:13 <TrueBrain> and there are gradations of errors .. if you make a movie about a supernovea, at least make it like what it does and should do ...
18:08:24 <Rubidium> name me a few that don't
18:09:10 <TrueBrain> although the first is a serie (the second both a serie and a movie)
18:10:16 <TrueBrain> that it was ... that it was ..
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18:10:42 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: SGU episode 5, 33:37 Q.E.D.
18:10:51 <SHADOW-XIV> havent seen it yet
18:10:57 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: they are never in space, so ...
18:11:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i was watching stargate earlier, it's totally stupid this episode...
18:11:25 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: predictable with a big P
18:11:53 <pyhfol> for my problem earlier - i wasnt adding a port to the ip on adding server, and thus it was adding the default, but my dedicated has a custom
18:12:14 <pyhfol> thanks all, in particular Rubi who made me see the obvious
18:12:14 <Eddi|zuHause> and over the last few seasons, stargate was more and more "in space"
18:12:30 <pyhfol> Stargate universe? i havent watched any, is it any good?
18:12:41 <Eddi|zuHause> too early to tell...
18:12:48 <TrueBrain> if you like Grey's Anatomy or Defying Gravity, yes it is
18:12:52 <Eddi|zuHause> that last episode tending on the bad side
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18:13:33 <pyhfol> hmmm, ill not bother then
18:14:04 <pyhfol> i thought they began to lose it after oneil left in sg1, then atlantis came along, which wasnt bad, but after that it all went to shit
18:15:20 <Eddi|zuHause> atlantis started way earlier than o'neill leaving
18:16:03 <pyhfol> how about in between lol :P
18:16:08 <Eddi|zuHause> atlantis was good, yes
18:16:12 <pyhfol> its been that long since i watched em anyway
18:16:39 <Eddi|zuHause> so you didn't watch the atlantis finale yet?
18:16:41 <pyhfol> only just got net back and when you live in aus theres only 2 ways to watch em
18:16:51 <pyhfol> nah havent watched any of it for a while
18:17:41 <pyhfol> but both torrent and usenet require internet lol, which i didnt have again till recently
18:18:11 <pyhfol> anyone else here from aus?
18:18:11 <TrueBrain> whoho, they got a fact right!
18:23:57 <TrueBrain> whoho, another fact!
18:25:00 <Eddi|zuHause> something they got wrong, their "trajectory" is completely straight ahead...
18:26:22 <Eddi|zuHause> and like rubidium said, wait until you get to the last 10 minutes...
18:26:52 <TrueBrain> I was talking about 2012 supernova, you got that, right? SGUs end is just too stupid to be true ...
18:27:36 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: alberth * r17855 /trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Remove or move var declarations in DrawVehicleRefitWindow().
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18:33:49 <Eddi|zuHause> ah, no, i missed that
18:35:47 <TrueBrain> okay .. that really was once again one of the worst movies I have seen in ages :p
18:36:08 <TrueBrain> and the annoying SHADOW-XIII returned .. with his endless joins and leaves
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18:37:35 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: alberth * r17856 /trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Don't get the selected cargo as a sife effect of drawing.
18:37:42 <Eddi|zuHause> well, luckily it always correlates to SHADOW-XIV leaving :p
18:43:38 *** Xeryus|bnc is now known as XeryusTC
18:43:58 *** TrainzStoffe is now known as Stoffe
18:51:33 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: frosch * r17857 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp newgrf_industries.cpp newgrf_spritegroup.h): -Fix (r10442): [NewGRF] 'subtract-in' is also signed for production callback version 0.
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19:16:30 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: frosch * r17858 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Unindent some code.
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19:36:37 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17859 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp: -Codechange: make the fund/build/prospect industry window nested
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19:41:17 * dihedral just read the fs task on hp != ps
19:48:06 <andythenorth> some flyspray requests are kind of fun and strange
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19:50:51 <andythenorth> maybe I should flyspray my favourite feature request...
19:51:10 <planetmaker> andythenorth: not much point, I think
19:52:10 <planetmaker> quoting you: - provide a patch for it ourselves
19:52:12 <planetmaker> - or entice another dev to do so
19:52:26 <planetmaker> if not a) or b) there's not much point IMO
19:52:35 <planetmaker> and for b) there's no point either ;-)
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19:54:08 <andythenorth> frosch123: I've just used \2/ and \2* without any training wheels
19:54:11 <andythenorth> worked first time
19:54:47 * planetmaker pats andythenorth on the shoulder
19:56:41 <planetmaker> he... frosch123, did andy entice you to look at newgrf maths? (Looking at r17857)
19:57:16 <frosch123> andy always points me to some bugs
19:59:08 <andythenorth> 'fields' and forests and such would be cool no?
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19:59:34 <frosch123> sure, but not something for a weekend, and so nothing for me
20:00:46 <violetblood> I would like to buy a hamnmbunger
20:01:18 <planetmaker> hmnmbunger are out of stock
20:01:21 <andythenorth> there is no hamnmbunger here
20:01:32 <andythenorth> pick up hamnmbunger
20:02:19 <andythenorth> planetmaker / anyone? so I'm coding FIRS to support insane cargo input levels
20:02:29 <andythenorth> for you crazy coop people and other maglev-abusers
20:02:41 <andythenorth> but just how am I going to test the code works?
20:02:48 <planetmaker> andythenorth: apropos: care to upload an updated version / newer nightly to bananas?
20:02:57 <andythenorth> no, they are all broken
20:03:05 <Eddi|zuHause> that's certainly not addressing me...
20:03:06 <frosch123> andythenorth: you will only boost fish usage that way
20:03:08 <planetmaker> I just thought today to give your grf a test on one of our servers
20:03:40 <planetmaker> I guess that's ... a shameless plug. I like that prod. levels, though
20:03:49 <andythenorth> just how do I drop in 65535 units of cargo? It has too arrive in between two production callbacks...
20:04:04 <andythenorth> I really can't be bothered to set up a test for that
20:04:15 <andythenorth> can we just code review and say 'well it looks like it will work'?
20:04:17 <planetmaker> andythenorth: so... what can we do for you, if we have no working grf?
20:04:44 <andythenorth> give me a bit longer...grf will arrive
20:04:54 <andythenorth> meanwhile, templating would be *unbelievably* useful
20:05:05 <planetmaker> well... I'm not proficient enough with that kind of nfo code to do a thorough review
20:05:26 <planetmaker> I just saw your screenies and went 'wow' at the production levels
20:05:43 <planetmaker> He, templates, yes.
20:06:06 <planetmaker> First task (for me): rename STR_TYPE_WHATEVER into STRID_TYPE_WHATEVER
20:06:25 <planetmaker> so that STR_TYPE_WHATEVER can actually be used to define the strings themselves instead of the IDs for the strings
20:06:26 <violetblood> anyone mind showing me some nice curve junctions?
20:06:34 <planetmaker> violetblood: hi again. We didn't leave
20:06:41 <StarLionIsaac> violetblood: depends what you mean by nice curve
20:06:43 <andythenorth> planetmaker: are you ok to do that work?
20:06:54 <andythenorth> planetmaker: >> devzone
20:06:56 <planetmaker> andythenorth: it's boring but simple
20:07:08 <frosch123> StarLionIsaac: this is not #tycoon
20:07:28 <StarLionIsaac> eh, so I forgot to check what channel I'm on
20:07:54 <andythenorth> omg I just used \2< *without* having to look it up first.
20:08:38 <frosch123> hmm, signed, right?
20:10:19 <planetmaker> violetblood: did you look at the wiki?
20:10:34 <violetblood> didn't found anything helpfull for what i need
20:11:00 <planetmaker> or the wiki where that archive is hosted.
20:11:06 <planetmaker> It has a few examples, too
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20:13:03 <frosch123> "junctionary" is a nice term :)
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20:16:35 <nicfer1> I'm wondering if would be possible to create an special grf type that acts like a container of other grf files
20:17:40 <frosch123> there are newgrf presets, if you want more than 60 it is your fault
20:22:54 <nicfer1> hmmm... then, how about an icon somewhere on the start screen that changes your active grf files?
20:23:24 <DaleStan> You mean like the one that says "NewGRF Settings"?
20:24:51 <Rhamphoryncus> I've noticed that a lot of people seem to use very short trains. Is there a reason for this? Fitting into junctions maybe?
20:25:18 <frosch123> they load faster, load more regulary, and so provide better service
20:25:35 <Eddi|zuHause> the longer the train the more interference when they actually cross paths
20:26:29 <frosch123> a train should not wait longer for full load than it needs to travel to the destination
20:26:30 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: alberth * r17860 /trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Refit window uses pure nested widgets.
20:26:43 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a side effect of the exceptionally short signal distances, the trains should get shorter as well
20:26:49 <Rhamphoryncus> frosch123: I thought loading would scale with the number of cars, so long as the station's long enough?
20:27:17 <frosch123> Rhamphoryncus: ok, replace loading time, by time needed to produce the cargo
20:27:25 <Eddi|zuHause> Rhamphoryncus: yes, but that assumes that there is a large pile available
20:27:27 <CaptObvious> bah, there's always too much water even though it's on the lowest
20:28:07 <Rhamphoryncus> Okay, so rather than have 2 trains with 8 cars you'd rather have 4 trains with 4 cars
20:28:24 <frosch123> depends on distance and output
20:28:33 <Rhamphoryncus> Because the game favours short wait times
20:28:39 <Rhamphoryncus> Is there some ideal wait time factor?
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20:29:06 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: alberth * r17861 /trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp: -Fix (r17860): max(uint, int) does not exist.
20:29:20 <frosch123> well, afaik what counts is the time from production until delivery
20:29:22 <Alberth> Rhamphoryncus: of course there is, there is always an optimum
20:29:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think the loading time matters that much, but for busy main lines, there is a tradeoff between train length and line capacity
20:29:46 <frosch123> cargo should not wait most of the time for other cargo to load
20:30:26 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: but then longer trains are better
20:31:21 <Rhamphoryncus> Also acceleration time I assume. In real life a long train will get a long path allocated so it doesn't have to stop and start much. In openttd it's more erratic, and a small train can get up to speed quickly. Also, with realistic acceleration it's less affected by close turns
20:31:22 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: like i said, longer trains => higher chance that a train has to stop at a busy junction
20:31:47 <Eddi|zuHause> not even speaking about acceleration of longer trains
20:32:20 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: no, longer trains -> less trains needed over all -> less inter-train space -> more cargo on the same amount of tracks
20:33:19 <frosch123> a train with 4 engines and 16 wagons still needs less space than 4 trains with 1 engine and 4 wagons each
20:33:30 <Eddi|zuHause> exactly: less inter-train space means less "gaps" for a train entering a main line, so trains are more likely to have a full stop
20:33:39 <Rhamphoryncus> The main thing I've focused on thus far is to have the loading train be 90-95% full when the next train comes in, so there's no cargo building in the station
20:34:31 <nicfer1> with that button I meant something faster, having to disable grfs one by one is kinda slow
20:34:45 <Eddi|zuHause> longer trains perform better on a straight line, but worse at junctions
20:35:02 <nicfer1> my idea is to have a button that toggles two or more grfs at once
20:35:18 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: imo that long-enough gap only suggests to use trains of equal length
20:35:40 <frosch123> but the probabilty for a full stop is not changed
20:36:22 <StarLionIsaac> nicfer1: why not use the presets? They store the state of an entire newgrf list
20:37:13 <frosch123> nicfer1: of course you could also code some small patch which adds or removes the grfs of a preset to the list without replacing the whole, so you can use presets for subsets of grfs
20:37:31 <Eddi|zuHause> the newgrf window is in desperate need for improvement
20:37:48 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: i am happy with it since i can filter for filename
20:37:55 <Eddi|zuHause> like recently, i wanted to add the ECS grfs to a preset
20:38:17 <Eddi|zuHause> and i had to open the "add" window, and reenter the filter again for every single one
20:38:46 <StarLionIsaac> if an update was made to the newGRF GUI patch, that included the new features such as the string search, it would fix that
20:39:14 <Eddi|zuHause> because (still) the add window closes every time you select a grf, and you can't select multiple grfs
20:39:29 <Eddi|zuHause> it's an extremely tedious job
20:39:48 <Rhamphoryncus> I wonder if broken down trains are less of an issue if they're short. Less likely to tie up a junction?
20:39:53 <StarLionIsaac> well, then all you need is to add the string search to the top of the add part of the newgrf GUI, which doesn't close
20:40:00 <nicfer1> the options/difficulty/'advanced' menus should be reorganized also
20:40:10 <StarLionIsaac> that way, it'd still remain, the string theoretically should stay, and the list should remain filtered
20:40:28 <Eddi|zuHause> also it would be useful if you add a grf with a grf-id that is already present, it should ask you if you want to replace it
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20:41:18 <frosch123> hmm, the last part should be easier
20:41:22 <nicfer1> I propose merge them in one bigger menu called 'options'
20:41:33 <StarLionIsaac> that would be very useful, like when you need to upgrade from an old ECS grf to a new one
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20:45:19 <frosch123> hmm, except ottd has no modal windows
20:45:58 <Eddi|zuHause> the question that asks if you want to exit the game? or the confirmation to sell all vehicles?
20:46:35 <frosch123> yes, but they are not modal
20:47:10 <frosch123> how does that work :o
20:49:13 <frosch123> this is not #tycoon
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21:03:25 <andythenorth_> Eddi|zuHause: I have a solution to your ECS grfs problem
21:03:30 <andythenorth_> but it's kinda lateral...
21:03:36 <andythenorth_> and comes in just one grf :)
21:03:47 <andythenorth_> question....I suppose divide by zero works about as well in nfo as other common languages?
21:03:59 <Alberth> nicfer1: you're not the first person with that idea. You can be the first that implements it.
21:05:47 <DaleStan> Don't do it. I know TTDPatch won't blow up (Dunno about Open), but the results are undefined (even if they are predictable). If you don't need the divide, divide by 1 instead, which is special-cased to skip the div.
21:08:04 <andythenorth_> DaleStan: thanks
21:08:48 <andythenorth_> meanwhile, back at the ranch
21:08:53 <andythenorth_> I have to refresh my newgrfs about 40 times an hour when I'm coding
21:09:01 <andythenorth_> and I code for 10 hours a day at the weekend...
21:09:12 <andythenorth_> lot of refreshes...I am so sick of clicking that button
21:09:17 <andythenorth_> "Apply Changes"
21:09:24 <andythenorth_> it's right next to "Find missing content online" as well
21:09:31 <andythenorth_> which I hit about 1 in 4 times....grrr
21:09:52 <TrueBrain> that is kind of stupid, that after plenty of clicks on the same buttons, you still manage to miss them :p
21:09:53 <Eddi|zuHause> shall make the button bigger? or coloured?
21:10:39 <_ln> TrueBrain: even the disease description itself is hilarious :)
21:10:54 <andythenorth_> TrueBrain: I know, I'm just dumb...
21:11:08 <andythenorth_> but it's the duck watching me that causes me to miss
21:11:09 <TrueBrain> well, normally people condition faster :p
21:11:10 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: alberth * r17862 /trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Use edge positions of the matrix widget in DrawVehicleRefitWindow.
21:12:08 <Eddi|zuHause> i misclick buttons all the time...
21:12:26 <TrueBrain> I tried that excuse when I kicked yet another person .. nobody bought it :(
21:12:32 <Eddi|zuHause> sometimes i mis"click" the left mouse button :p
21:12:40 <Eddi|zuHause> and hit the right one instead ;)
21:13:35 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not very convincing if it says "oops, wrong button" in the kick message :p
21:13:47 <TrueBrain> I guess that is the problem yes ..
21:17:19 <andythenorth_> frosch123: I think this line is redundant: case '0' | WKC_ALT: // Crash the game
21:17:24 <andythenorth_> I already have code for that :)
21:17:52 <frosch123> don't press F12 in an online game, you will desync :p
21:18:17 <TrueBrain> frosch123: so add if (!_networking) in front of it :)
21:19:42 <frosch123> TrueBrain: or rather if (_networking) *(byte *)NULL = 0;
21:20:13 <TrueBrain> ghehe, effcieint too ;)
21:21:01 <frosch123> or if (_networking) ShowErrorMessage(INVALID_STRING_ID, STR_STUPID_USER, 0, 0);
21:21:05 <TrueBrain> I have been working on 16bit apps lately, they allow such actions :p
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21:21:36 <frosch123> is that specific to 16bit?
21:21:45 <TrueBrain> they just don't have code-pages yet
21:21:57 <Eddi|zuHause> how's the game going, anyway?
21:22:06 <TrueBrain> it runs, and it runs good :)
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21:23:38 <andythenorth_> frosch123: patch unexpectedly ends in middle of line
21:23:39 <andythenorth_> Hunk #2 succeeded at 279 with fuzz 1.
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21:24:33 <frosch123> do you have unix2dos?
21:24:48 <frosch123> then try "unix2dos <the file>"
21:34:03 <Eddi|zuHause> since when am i the cleaning up kind?
21:34:17 <TrueBrain> you don't like the promotion?
21:34:35 <frosch123> you are always at home, what should you do there elsewise?
21:37:05 <Eddi|zuHause> why's the function static if you need access to "this"?
21:39:18 <frosch123> because it passed as function pointer to ShowQuery
21:39:30 <Eddi|zuHause> strgen gets very noisy ;)
21:40:03 <Eddi|zuHause> and you can't pass non-static (possibly virtual) functions as pointer?
21:40:35 <frosch123> well, where shall ShowQuery get the "this" from?
21:41:18 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, you're probably right...
21:42:02 <frosch123> pascal has some function of objects with is basically a struct of this and function pointer
21:42:52 <frosch123> but you would still need another function than ShowQuery
21:43:28 <Eddi|zuHause> *mental note* don't press [Esc]:wq in kate...
21:45:08 <frosch123> vimness is a dangerous disease, be careful about it, don't leave house...
21:46:10 <frosch123> you might start to think an editor *needs* a special command to start editing
21:46:37 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not in that stage yet, i guess i'm lucky
21:47:20 <andythenorth_> frosch123: f12 :D
21:48:41 <Eddi|zuHause> funny... konqueror crashes when i open the text file links...
22:19:26 <Eddi|zuHause> there's no way i know enough about c-pointer-magic to clean up memory leaks...
22:20:13 <Eddi|zuHause> and of course i missed him...
22:28:01 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: I miss him too
22:28:07 <andythenorth_> the production callback insists on only looking at registers
22:28:12 <andythenorth_> it won't use persistent registers
22:28:31 <andythenorth_> that'll teach me the wrongs of top-down coding or whatever it's called
22:29:12 <andythenorth_> it's not exactly compatible with my magic debugger either :P
22:29:19 <andythenorth_> but is easy to fix
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