IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-09-16
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00:34:06 <DorpsGek> PeterT: Born_Acorn was last seen in #openttd 10 weeks, 0 days, 9 hours, 48 minutes, and 24 seconds ago: <Born_Acorn> Bbl
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04:17:26 <nicfer> so, is there such a set like the one I asked?
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10:10:25 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17553 /trunk/src/newgrf_callbacks.h: -Update: some documentation about the callbacks
10:42:36 <DorpsGek> umj: dihedral was last seen in #openttd 17 hours, 59 minutes, and 16 seconds ago: <dihedral> 40t 1hp :-P
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10:44:36 <DorpsGek> umj: mark was last seen in #openttd 3 weeks, 6 days, 21 hours, 10 minutes, and 31 seconds ago: <Mark> the distance between the station signs
10:44:56 <DorpsGek> umj: sirkoz was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 33 weeks, 2 days, 11 hours, 53 minutes, and 58 seconds ago: <SirkoZ> 90nite
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12:01:14 <dihedral> heh - i missed umj :-(
12:12:04 <Eddi|zuHause> well, that was not very difficult :p
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12:21:44 <dihedral> what's a good german translation for "filter string"?
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12:41:40 <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: i only have bad ideas... something between "Suchanfrage" and "Auswahlkriterium"
12:49:32 <dihedral> i dont even know where it's used
12:54:34 <dihedral> Rubidium, STR_LIST_FILTER_TITLE <- why "Filter String" and not "Search" ?
12:59:23 <dihedral> true - i did not check who did it :-P
12:59:29 <dihedral> i just had a wild guess :-D
12:59:39 <dihedral> (that should make you feel special now :-D)
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13:09:38 <DorpsGek> dihedral: frosch123 was last seen in #openttd 19 hours, 21 minutes, and 11 seconds ago: <frosch123> +'
13:12:37 <Eddi|zuHause> out of context this looks like a very screwed up smilie :p
13:14:26 <dihedral> +' was meant to be a smily?
13:18:17 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you need to read my sentence again
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13:27:17 <LadyHawk> if he had the shift backwards it'd be =@ on my keyboard
13:27:26 <LadyHawk> i mighta seen that once or twice
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13:43:21 <Audigex> does anyone know of a build with one of the timetable seperation patches and cargodist?
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13:45:09 <Rubidium> got to love answers that can be explained in two ways :)
13:46:13 <Eddi|zuHause> got to love questions that are undecidable ;)
13:51:16 <Audigex> what's wrong with that question :(
13:51:23 <Audigex> it's a simple "yes" or "no"
13:51:32 <Audigex> with hopefully the "yes" also containing a link
13:53:21 <Rubidium> does anyone know Audigex's birth date? The answer would (likely) be "yes (Audigex knows)", but that doesn't give us your birth date
13:53:30 <Rubidium> it answers the question though
13:55:58 <Audigex> i love doing that to my family
13:56:17 <Audigex> although i've never had the nerve to do it to a stranger in the street
13:56:22 <Audigex> "do you know what time it is?"
13:57:41 <Ammler> what I would like to do now, installing a 2nd version of openttd, is that possible? how?
13:58:35 <Eddi|zuHause> name the package differently, and ./configure a different prefix?
13:59:13 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: you mean, not installing to /usr/bin ?
13:59:53 <blathijs> There has been some work on having a postfix, e.g. /usr/bin/openttd-trunk, but I'm not sure any of that stuff was ever committed
14:00:14 <Ammler> yes, that is more what I was looking for...
14:00:36 <Ammler> well, it is also needed for the data files, I assume.
14:00:56 <SmatZ> Ammler: maybe something like ./configure BIN_DIR=/usr/bin/openttd-0.7 or so?
14:01:22 <blathijs> Ammler: Yup, though that probably means you want /usr/share/games/openttd-trunk
14:01:24 <Rubidium> ./configure --binary-name=ooh-ammler
14:01:46 <SmatZ> hmm not a good idea, it won't install to different dir
14:01:59 <Rubidium> ./configure --binary-name=ooh-ammler --data-dir=please/use/configures/help/and/put/the/data/in/another/directory
14:02:22 <Rubidium> languages are data :)
14:02:24 <Ammler> but I assume, it has also a parameter for it :P
14:02:49 <Rubidium> hmm, shouldn't have said that... configure's help does that already
14:03:03 <blathijs> The only "problem" would be that you can't share the original ttd manner between both installs
14:03:15 <Rubidium> blathijs: technically you can :)
14:03:15 <blathijs> (unless you put them in your homedir, and then you can't share them between users)
14:03:41 <blathijs> Rubidium: shared-dir?
14:05:16 <Rubidium> ./configure --shared-dir=<foo> (primarily intended for MS' shared documents stuff)
14:05:27 <Rubidium> but it ought to work for unix too
14:06:04 <blathijs> That means you just insert an extra datadir where data files are looked for?
14:06:10 <blathijs> What's MS' shared documents stuff?
14:07:34 <Rubidium> blathijs: yes, you add an extra data dir, although it's more like ~/.openttd than ~/.openttd/data
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14:19:46 <Ammler> default shared-dir=data-dir ?
14:20:49 <Rubidium> default for non-windows is: nothing
14:21:04 <Ammler> oh, well, doesn't matter
14:21:14 <Ammler> it just is an additional folder it would look.
14:21:58 <Ammler> so you add --shared-dir to the data dir of the stable binary.
14:23:02 <Rubidium> I'd say: just try it. That's probably better explain it than us trying to explain it
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14:33:28 <Rubidium> someone's pencil broke
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15:07:50 <dihedral> hehe mobile-phone companies are funny
15:08:15 <dihedral> i quit a contract... just got a phone call from the company "what can we do to make you stay a customer with us"....
15:08:34 <dihedral> "dont try - just hang up, i am not even interested!"
15:09:19 <Rubidium> dihedral: that's bollocks, they can always make you an offer that makes you stay
15:10:22 <Rubidium> if they pay me 1000 euros now and 100 euros a month I'll happily keep my contract with them; for that I can buy a new phone and get a nice contract at another telco :)
15:10:23 <dihedral> but i am not interested
15:10:48 <dihedral> well - the people who call you most likely cannot make such an offer :-P
15:11:34 <dihedral> + if there were anything they could do for me, i'd probably have given them a call myself
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17:41:30 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17554 /trunk/ (known-bugs.txt readme.txt): -Update: documentation about bug reporting and known bugs
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17:45:30 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: translators * r17555 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
17:45:30 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:30 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: czech - 4 changes by SmatZ
17:45:30 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: hebrew - 47 changes by dnd_man
17:45:30 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: italian - 1 changes by lorenzodv
17:45:32 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: russian - 3 changes by Lone_Wolf
17:45:32 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: vietnamese - 71 changes by nglekhoi
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17:58:58 <Ammler> why isn't /usr/share/games/openttd a shared directory? Why does it need its own category?
17:59:56 <Rubidium> because it generally isn't needed
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18:01:00 <Rubidium> the install and home directory are in 90+% of the time more than enough
18:01:29 <Ammler> yes, I just wonder, why you have a seperate category for linux
18:01:50 <Rubidium> given the extremely small percentage playing stable *and* nightlies
18:02:02 <Rubidium> Ammler: huh? seperate category for linux?
18:02:32 <Ammler> yes, shared directory for windows/osx and installation directory for linux
18:03:10 <Rubidium> who gave you that knowledge?
18:04:42 <Rubidium> because install directory and shared directory are conceptually different
18:05:57 <Rubidium> actually the readme is wrong
18:06:44 <Prof_Frink> Good thing no-one reads readmes.
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18:08:00 <Ammler> Rubidium: I guess "not available" is wrong?
18:09:12 <Ammler> and that is the default location for the original data or opengfx or other not version dependent data.
18:09:57 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17556 /trunk/readme.txt: -Fix (r12321): the OSX port doesn't use /Library/Application Support/OpenTTD.
18:12:10 <Ammler> the location for version independend data.
18:12:44 <Alberth> for system-wide install, /usr/share, or /usr/local/share
18:12:52 <Rubidium> whereever OpenTTD can find it
18:13:19 <Ammler> Alberth: /usr/share/games/openttd is already used
18:13:33 <Ammler> or can I use that for "other" data too?
18:14:24 <Rubidium> yes, as long as OpenTTD can find it's language files
18:14:53 <Rubidium> and that global directory has the newest data
18:15:08 <Rubidium> otherwise its going to get messy :)
18:16:16 <Alberth> Ammler: I think all OpenTTD related data could be placed there in it's own sub-directory
18:16:52 <Ammler> that wouldn't work, if you have 2 installs (stable and nightly)
18:17:31 <Ammler> but that might not matter, as usually, you don't install 2 versions.
18:20:13 <Alberth> I don't have system-wide installs, only user installs. All dev versions share the same data, I also have a 0.7.2 version and a test-play version with its own config
18:21:06 <Ammler> making userinstalls with rpm seems almost impossible.
18:21:12 <Alberth> You are fairly limited in your choices most likely, as OpenTTD should be able to find the files.
18:21:39 <Alberth> yeah, that seems pretty difficult, but I have never tried it.
18:22:42 <Alberth> I usually simply pull a source and build/install at user-level, leaving the system package manager using the 'official' distro packages only.
18:23:01 <Rubidium> each binary with its own install dir with version specific stuff, which is basically everything that is part of an OpenTTD release and use the shared directory for the rest OpenGFX, original files, etc.
18:24:12 <Ammler> Rubidium: do you have me the link to this fedora spec you once posted, again.
18:24:37 <Ammler> a bit hard to find in the logs or I am looking for the wrong...
18:24:39 <Rubidium> if I knew what spec you meant, probably
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18:30:51 <Audigex> stupid ghost command, sorry if anyone got flooded there
18:33:24 <Alberth> I just managed to hold on to the edge of the window
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18:48:25 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... my system gets really unresponsive when copying large files... any suggestions to solve that?
18:49:47 <Belugas> use FTP then, like a background service
18:49:50 <Eddi|zuHause> no. that does not help, i don't care how slow the file copy is, i want the rest of the system be usable
18:50:17 <Rubidium> different io scheduler?
18:50:27 <Rubidium> different task scheduler?
18:53:51 <Eddi|zuHause> where do i find the schedulers?
19:01:07 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: alberth * r17557 /trunk/src/ (order_func.h order_gui.cpp timetable_gui.cpp): -Codechange: Pass left and right edge to DrawOrderString().
19:02:24 <Eddi|zuHause> ah... /sys/block/$device/queue/scheduler
19:05:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i can't figure out how ionice works...
19:06:25 <L29Ah> Eddi|zuHause: that's a bug in linux kernel
19:11:03 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17558 /trunk/src/ (4 files): -Feature [NewGRF]: callbacks for houses to disable drawing foundations and to disable slope changes, like industry tile callbacks 30 and 3C.
19:11:23 <Eddi|zuHause> and plasma-desktop is an extreme ressource hog... i should have stayed with kde3
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19:53:59 <Prof_Frink> Belugas: You know what happens when you blink.
19:54:35 <Belugas> hem... yes... i can't see for a milli second
19:55:50 <Prof_Frink> That, and the weeping angels kill you. Nicely.
19:56:17 <Rubidium> Belugas: millisecond? More like hundreds of milliseconds
19:56:40 <Belugas> i'm tired... so milliseconds would be good enuf!
19:56:51 <Belugas> plus... no coffee since 10:00h am
19:57:09 <Prof_Frink> Mmm, ten o'clock ham
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20:15:06 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: do you prefer accessing 512 characters over blinking?
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20:18:28 <Rubidium> ooh... something to decypher
20:19:42 <Prof_Frink> I think it translates as: "Ops to DEFCON 1 - prepare for spammers."
20:20:53 <Chrill> To me, it looks like "I fail to run the TTRS with the Total Bridge Renewal Set - how do I do?"
20:20:56 <Chrill> but I might be mistaken
20:21:37 <frosch123> "z" is no roman number symbol though
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20:31:08 <Eddi|zuHause> i think he was saying his keyboard layout is wrong :p
20:33:25 <andythenorth> I am supposed to be testing improved RV acceleration aren't I?
20:33:46 <andythenorth> I'd better go and remember how to compile :/
20:33:49 <Eddi|zuHause> is that in trunk already?
20:34:09 <andythenorth> time for happy world of svn
20:34:13 <andythenorth> seems like my day job...
20:36:28 <Terkhen> andythenorth: thanks :)
20:36:31 <Terkhen> Eddi|zuHause: I still have a lot of work and polishing to do
20:38:37 <andythenorth> svn: Can't connect to host 'svn.openttd.org': No route to host
20:42:31 <Ammler> does openttd have a target for uninstall or something like?
20:42:48 <frosch123> never trust uninstall software
20:43:38 <Rubidium> there is no uninstall
20:43:39 <Prof_Frink> What, not even `aptitude purge`?
20:43:39 <frosch123> i only had once a virus on my disk. it was in some uninstall which i never executed :p
20:44:11 <andythenorth> right this is svn being batshit crazy. I *hate* svn
20:44:21 <andythenorth> can anyone tell me what I'm doing wron
20:44:42 <Rubidium> andythenorth: got ipv6?
20:44:53 <Rubidium> i.e. try ping6 svn.openttd.org
20:45:26 <andythenorth> pdq2s-macbook-3:OTTD andy$ ping6 svn.openttd.org
20:45:26 <andythenorth> ping6: UDP connect: No route to host
20:45:46 <Rubidium> there's your problem
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20:46:21 <Ammler> andythenorth: use hg :-)
20:46:44 <Eddi|zuHause> can't you tell svn to use ipv4 only?
20:46:46 <Ammler> well, not the solution for your issue.
20:46:47 <Rubidium> Ammler: hg doesn't solve his IPv6 broken network
20:46:58 <Rubidium> unless hg doesn't support IPv6, in which case hg is broken too
20:47:16 <Ammler> but maybe the solution for "I hate svn"
20:47:20 <andythenorth> Ammler: I have 2.5GB of ottd source checked out in svn. I mean, it's only bandwidth, but it seems wasteful
20:47:33 <andythenorth> I only hate svn because I haven't learnt it properly
20:47:57 <frosch123> 2.5GB? did you checkout every tag?
20:48:57 <Ammler> frosch123: is it that big then?
20:49:09 <Ammler> aren't those simple hardlinks
20:49:26 <Rubidium> not when svn does a checkout
20:49:26 <andythenorth> frosch123: I guess I did
20:50:09 <frosch123> you had spend the time better learning svn than wating on the checkout to complete then :p
20:50:31 <andythenorth> meanwhile I have to fix my network?
20:50:45 <Rubidium> just (temporary) disable IPv6
20:54:51 * Rubidium wonders whether we should hold a party to celebrate OSX rereaching the 25% of the open bugs are OSX bugs status
20:56:13 <Prof_Frink> Rubidium: Nah, wait for 100%, then drop OSX support and release. Bugfree!
20:57:00 <Rubidium> sad thing is that the number of open bugs is double that than the last time OSX has 25% of the open bugs :(
20:58:37 <Ammler> all bug reports without patch?
20:59:07 <andythenorth> fun fun fun. svn.openttd.org used to work. I moved house. same isp. same adsl modem. same access point. same mac. no svn.openttd.org :(
20:59:19 <andythenorth> my isp claim not to support ipv6.
20:59:26 <andythenorth> but it used to work anyway. bizarre
20:59:42 <andythenorth> time for some food
21:00:01 <andythenorth> Prof_Frink might like to know that the bouldering centre in Bristol is good. But makes you hungry
21:00:03 <Rubidium> Ammler: at least without a patch that definitely fixes the problem and doesn't cause any other problems
21:00:27 <Rubidium> furthermore, there doesn't seem to be anyone with the tools (read systems) to properly test the patches
21:00:41 <Rubidium> andythenorth: what OS are you running?
21:01:09 <Prof_Frink> andythenorth: Nah, TrueBrain would be more interested in that.
21:01:29 <Prof_Frink> I'm far more interested in going-to-the-Peak-this-weekend.
21:01:51 <andythenorth> meh. outdoors. over-rated. full of rain. not enough hot tea
21:02:14 <TrueBrain> I think Prof_Frink doesn't understand what fun is
21:02:18 <Prof_Frink> Trad > Sport/Bouldering.
21:02:52 <Prof_Frink> andythenorth: It was properly warm last Saturday.
21:02:52 <Rubidium> falling to death > falling to full paralysis?
21:04:00 <Prof_Frink> Having said that, I am going to Sicily clipping bolts Saturday week.
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21:04:43 * Belugas runs home... well... run... cannot describe that as running...
21:05:51 <Prof_Frink> andythenorth: Plus, outdoors has awesome sounding grades like "Hard Very Severe"
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21:13:10 <Ammler> he, if I change --data-dir, it needs to compile the whole source again?
21:13:14 <planetmaker> good night from here, too.
21:13:27 <Ammler> gute Nacht planetmaker
21:15:24 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: any reconfigure will trigger a full compile
21:15:32 <Eddi|zuHause> as it will change the makefile
21:18:20 <Ammler> ./configure --binary-name=openttdcoop --data-dir=/usr/local/share/games/openttdcoop && make install as root
21:18:33 <Ammler> but there is no data there
21:19:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i can't help with that.
21:21:27 <DorpsGek> umj: dihedral was last seen in #openttd 6 hours, 9 minutes, and 52 seconds ago: <dihedral> + if there were anything they could do for me, i'd probably have given them a call myself
21:23:43 <Ammler> maybe someone should tell umj about email
21:23:55 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, it was nice enjoying your company
21:26:07 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... why is it, every time someone posts a picture of a "junction", i have the need to puke?
21:28:31 <Rubidium> maybe someone should tell Ammler about ./configure --help
21:30:15 <Ammler> that wouldn't help :-(
21:31:23 <Ammler> do you mean "..prefixed with the prefix-dir "?
21:33:43 <Ammler> shouldn't that work anyway, in that case, it would make /usr/local/usr/local/....
21:34:47 <Ammler> just telling someone about readme or --help isn't enough :-P
21:36:39 <Rubidium> yes, it would be in /usr/local/usr/local/... unless install barfs on something
21:37:18 <Rubidium> although that would give a failure
21:37:30 <Rubidium> make VERBOSE:=1 does give you a better idea what actually happens
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21:39:22 <Ammler> well, thanks, I liked to blame myself :-)
21:39:33 <Ammler> meant, I should better read the output.
21:40:43 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe configure could do some sanity checks, when prefix is a prefix of data-dir, it could warn
21:41:15 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: What do you expect from somebody not even able to write something you can read and is even proud of that?
21:41:21 <Ammler> hmm, now the folder is there
21:41:41 <Ammler> with data, but I only have one language, looks like russian or something
21:43:03 <Ammler> hmm, maybe an other issue with the binary...
21:45:08 <Ammler> he, everything fine :-)
21:45:45 <Ammler> I screwed up the cfg with the non-working version before.
21:52:50 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i can't figure out to build a regexp which matches any word containing "abc" but not containing "xyz"
21:53:43 <Eddi|zuHause> what i built does work with "abcxyz", but not with "abcxxyz"
21:54:19 <Rubidium> I'm wondering whether it's actually possible
21:55:31 <Eddi|zuHause> well, it's easy with two regexpses
21:56:02 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean like "grep abc | grep -v xyz"
21:56:19 <Eddi|zuHause> but i can't figure out how to do it with one
21:56:52 <Eddi|zuHause> if it's possible to do with two finite automatons, it is possible with one as well
21:58:06 <Eddi|zuHause> sadly, regexpses have only an invert-operation on character level
21:58:33 <Eddi|zuHause> so it's difficult to construct
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22:24:04 <Rubidium> did I scare him away?
22:41:25 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: [^(xyz)]?
22:41:57 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: no, that is not valid
22:42:57 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: within [] you may only give a list of characters, not a sub-regexp
22:46:03 <Ammler> hmm, well it seems, I have it wrongly in mind anyway.
22:54:22 *** Polygon has joined #openttd
23:33:19 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
23:48:42 <gouki> Hi everyone. Just to see if I understood things correctly ... Up until 0.7.1, we need the original game graphics files, but 0.7.2 already contains open source ones?
23:49:00 <Sacro> well, there's a semi-complete set
23:49:43 <gouki> "This includes the OpenGFX set which replaces all of the games graphics allowing OpenTTD to be played for the first time without any of the original graphics files. In effect now, for the first time, OpenTTD is its own game"
23:49:58 <gouki> Read that on Wikipedia :S
23:50:46 * gouki learns a lesson about Wikipedia :P
23:51:02 <Sacro> opengfx isn't a full set afaik
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