IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-08-12
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00:00:05 <TrueBrain> it becomes .. weird ..
00:00:08 <OwenS> Haha I saw that in the chemistry department :p
00:00:08 <TrueBrain> it starts dancing around eachother
00:00:27 <Uberzten> they shoould do a freezing show on discovery channel
00:00:34 <TrueBrain> well, it can touch your hand as there is a small layer between the cold stuff, and your hand
00:00:36 <Uberzten> where they test stuff like that
00:00:43 <OwenS> I mean seriously... they must have emptied a significantly portion of the decanter :p
00:00:55 <Uberzten> no, i dont mean mythbusters
00:01:11 <TrueBrain> there are tons of programs which show the effects of liquid nitrogen
00:01:37 <TrueBrain> OwenS: well, as I said here before, we have those big containers with liquit nitrogen in them
00:01:40 <Uberzten> not miami ink i suppouse
00:01:44 <TrueBrain> once a valve was broken
00:01:49 <TrueBrain> too much presure inside the container
00:01:59 <OwenS> Uberzten: Brainiac is a show about blowing up caravans :p
00:02:00 <TrueBrain> 10 cm of 'smoke' on the ground
00:02:25 <Uberzten> smashlab is even better on it
00:02:28 <TrueBrain> lovely stuff .... :)
00:02:56 <OwenS> I heard about a university where the liquid nitrogen can's release valve broke. The bottle took off like a rocket and blasted it's way through 3 concrete floors
00:03:13 <TrueBrain> bad deisgned container, but okay :)
00:03:32 <OwenS> No. Repair work by a cowboy :p
00:03:51 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... is there kopete for kde4?
00:03:55 <TrueBrain> (our have 2 release valves; one on the normal valve itself, against overpresure and stuff .. normally releases a bit every N minutes (you scare yourself to dead the first time))
00:04:01 <TrueBrain> the second is on the container itself, built-in
00:04:08 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: Yes. It's called Kopete :p
00:04:19 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: install a real desktop
00:04:27 <Eddi|zuHause> then why did it not install it when i installed kde4?
00:04:43 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: no, that would be silly :p
00:04:44 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause:virus:command:install:kopete
00:05:16 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, nice idea, i give you root access on my machine ;)
00:05:26 <TrueBrain> you have OpenTTD installed, right?
00:05:37 <TrueBrain> then don't worry about giving that to me :)
00:06:50 <TrueBrain> you think I am joking? Owh ..
00:06:54 <Eddi|zuHause> err... somehow ktorrent just crashed...
00:06:57 <TrueBrain> I guess it is time to make a CVE
00:07:03 <OwenS> I also heard about a chemistry lab where a guy knocked the valve clean off a H2SO4 tank. They needed a new lab afterwards :p
00:07:17 <TrueBrain> I neither admit, nor deny!
00:08:40 <TrueBrain> I love how South Park can show that something is really wrong by doing it really explicit in the direction it is current going
00:08:45 <TrueBrain> (I love not being able to find the english words)
00:08:54 <OwenS> TrueBrain: You mean like they do with Scientology? :p
00:09:16 <TrueBrain> now watching the episode about Indian healing
00:09:21 <OwenS> They did it... and didn't get sued because they told the honest non-exagerated truth. And it still sounded ridiculous.
00:09:21 <Uberzten> like with the genetic research?
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00:09:46 <Uberzten> where cartman sells notfinished babys
00:09:53 <TrueBrain> OwenS: well, that is South Park always. They make fun of it by giving the truth ... in its admost positive way
00:09:59 <TrueBrain> Uberzten: more on your level?
00:10:14 <OwenS> The level has dropped quite a bit :p
00:10:22 <TrueBrain> yeah, I had to search really hard to drop this low
00:10:25 <TrueBrain> but South Park it is
00:10:54 <TrueBrain> I was going to watch a movie
00:11:00 <TrueBrain> OwenS made me look into ternary shit again :)
00:11:08 <TrueBrain> maybe I should build a ternary computer for my master thesis :p
00:11:25 <Uberzten> why can there by so many smartguys in here and not one fun ottd server?
00:11:53 <TrueBrain> LOL!!! Cherokee hair tampons
00:11:58 <Aali> you'll find that smart guys and "fun" do not go well together
00:12:03 <OwenS> Uberzten: What is your definiton of fun?
00:12:07 <TrueBrain> the commercial in SouthPark is really a back-reference to some idiotic thing in the episode :p
00:12:14 <TrueBrain> (it has real people for a chance :p)
00:12:26 <TrueBrain> Uberzten: those 'smart' guys do develop the game for you :)
00:12:46 <TrueBrain> yeah ... now I come to think of it
00:12:50 <Uberzten> a good rating system with different goals and a webpage
00:12:52 <OwenS> I've developed non-accepted patches :p
00:13:02 <TrueBrain> I developed accepted patches
00:13:17 <OwenS> You had a 5 year head start :p
00:13:32 <OwenS> Well, not so much, maybe a 4 yeard head start :p
00:13:44 <Uberzten> thats why you are nicking TrueBrain
00:13:56 <TrueBrain> the truth has to be told
00:14:11 <TrueBrain> OwenS: took me 6 months to get my first patch in I believe :p
00:14:27 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Commit by translators :: r17156 /trunk/src/lang (4 files in 2 dirs) (2009-08-11 17:45:14 UTC)
00:14:28 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
00:14:29 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: dutch - 290 changes by miloiw
00:14:29 <OwenS> TrueBrain: Well my first patch added NAND signals and was voted too confusing (for the user :P )
00:14:30 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: finnish - 38 changes by jpx_
00:14:31 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: indonesian - 11 changes by fanioz, prof
00:14:32 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: malay - 5 changes by rionix88
00:14:36 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 0.119200279785
00:14:42 <TrueBrain> 12% of the commits are mine! :p
00:14:49 <TrueBrain> ah, you were the NAND guy :p
00:14:57 <TrueBrain> at least allowed logic circuits :p
00:15:32 <Uberzten> so all you guys in this channel is just developing patches, not making hardcore train systems?
00:15:46 <TrueBrain> the only thing I do hardcore is ..
00:15:48 <TrueBrain> well .. lets not go there
00:16:23 <OwenS> Uberzten: Last week I worked on a 1ktrain system in #openttdcoop :p
00:17:19 <TrueBrain> I wish you all a good night
00:17:26 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause / OwenS: thanks for the conversation :)
00:17:38 <TrueBrain> Uberzten: good luck complaining about the level in this channel :)
00:17:51 <Uberzten> i have som very interesting opinions you know
00:17:54 <TrueBrain> Uberzten: at a given level, it no longer is a conversation, but just a mix of words and lines :p
00:17:56 <Eddi|zuHause> hey, i have programmed an accepted patch
00:18:08 <Eddi|zuHause> and one where the basic idea got introduced
00:18:19 <TrueBrain> welcome to #openttd :)
00:18:31 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: baisc idea of WHAT? :)
00:18:56 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i programmed a prototype patch called "middle stop"
00:19:11 <TrueBrain> well, this cocky person goes to sleep now
00:19:13 <Eddi|zuHause> an people really liked it, so someone made a real patch out of it ;)
00:19:21 <TrueBrain> so I wish you a very good night :)
00:19:24 <Eddi|zuHause> which is now in the game ;)
00:19:58 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: good night (and morning as you'll probably miss it)
00:20:22 <TrueBrain> you too, get some sleep :)
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01:28:35 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r17157 /trunk/src/ (58 files in 5 dirs): -Add: localised decimal separator
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01:35:28 <Eddi|zuHause> what do we need a decimal separator for?
01:41:14 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: size of downloads
01:42:02 <SmatZ> or do you mean generally?
01:42:21 <Eddi|zuHause> ahh, yes, didn't think of that
01:42:49 <Eddi|zuHause> all ingame numbers i could think of didn't have fractional values
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02:53:54 <Belugas> that's it... go to sleep all! let me have no fun when coming in, finally!
02:55:32 <Eddi|zuHause> good day to you, too, sir :)
02:56:20 <Belugas> a live Eddi|zuHause at this time
02:56:35 <Eddi|zuHause> but really, it's 5AAM
02:56:35 <Belugas> hello Eddi|zuHause. good day to you too
02:56:49 <Belugas> time for you to hit thebed?
02:57:01 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, 4 hours ago...
02:57:02 <Belugas> i'm checking mail@work
02:57:34 <Belugas> your train obsess youi still?
02:58:06 <Eddi|zuHause> no, not right now...
02:59:00 <Eddi|zuHause> i need to organise my final exams, but i'm unable to write emails...
03:03:02 <Eddi|zuHause> to get a date for an exam i need to ask the professor which holds it, and for that i have to go to his office or write him an email
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03:15:10 <Belugas> go on, sir. Youhave my full support
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05:26:55 <LordAzamath> Just wanted to discuss it before making a feature request at Flyspray. Would it be possible to change the intro letters OPENTTD so they'd be some certain distance in pixels from eachother not just defined positions
05:27:22 <LordAzamath> So if I don't have exactly the same width text than in trgir then the letter distance would still remain same
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07:47:32 <planetmaker> oh, and good morning #openttd
07:49:09 <Rubidium> because that... uhm... force-disables some NewGRFs?
07:50:51 <planetmaker> hm, does it? Like canset?
07:51:08 <planetmaker> hm... which actually?
07:51:47 <Eddi|zuHause> it doesn't matter if there actually is such a set. they CAN do it, it's in the specs, so you have to expect that they REALLY do it.
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07:52:42 <planetmaker> well, yes, they can... but IMO that's... single-minded. And if no-one uses it...
07:53:00 <Eddi|zuHause> several people have announced that they will do it
07:53:21 <planetmaker> those always-announcers :-P
07:54:06 <planetmaker> (I can only think of two people)
07:54:12 <Rubidium> nevertheless... if we can't switch settings in-game, how are we supposed to switch settings on saveload?
07:54:48 <planetmaker> Rubidium, afaik it's something different to convert right upon load, when the game is not running than when the thing is running?
07:55:17 <planetmaker> iirc it's a proplem with the assignment of the vehicleIDs, as their range / space is handled differently.
07:55:35 <Eddi|zuHause> during the conversion, the game is always "freezed"
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07:55:50 <planetmaker> you'll know that better than me, but before anything runs, a conversion could work, no?
07:56:10 <Eddi|zuHause> there is really no difference to the game state...
07:56:12 <Rubidium> the same way it could work in-game
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07:57:13 <planetmaker> Dunno. It just seems easier to me, if you haven't initilized anything yet :-)
07:58:14 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you have a misconception what the saveload code does...
07:58:32 <Rubidium> well, you've already initialised quite a lot at the stage where you *CAN* actually switch
07:58:34 <planetmaker> certainly possible
07:58:49 <Rubidium> because you also need the vehicle stuff loaded
07:59:12 <Rubidium> which means your like at 90% of the saveload
08:02:44 <Eddi|zuHause> good morning to you, too ;)
08:02:59 <Eddi|zuHause> like, your morning ;)
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08:11:47 <andythenorth> So...tractive effort for RVs....I need to calculate this for various vehicles as a new RV physics patch has appeared.
08:12:17 <andythenorth> I could do with a handy rule of thumb for it.
08:12:31 <petern> make it work for ttdpatch
08:12:50 <andythenorth> I have found the equations for it on Wikipedia, but they need information I don't have.
08:13:14 <andythenorth> Anyone want to help me either wing it, or do the proper maths?
08:13:15 <petern> it's just mass and power...
08:13:35 <andythenorth> petern: (this is to set values for vehicles in a newgrf set)
08:13:37 <petern> the maths is done by the engine, heh
08:13:51 <andythenorth> ...I have to provide a TE value in the newgrf
08:13:56 <petern> you should just need to set approximate real world values
08:14:10 <petern> there's a default value
08:14:49 <andythenorth> well I like that answer as it involves me doing less work...which is...better
08:15:22 <Eddi|zuHause> a max TE like the one for engines shouldn't be needed imho. except you want to start vehicles on mud or sand...
08:16:10 <Eddi|zuHause> rubber on asphalt has a really high friction ;)
08:16:24 <andythenorth> is it a factor of adhesion in any way? i.e. does a 6x4 truck have a greater TE than a 6x2 truck?
08:16:49 <andythenorth> i.e. more driven wheels on the 6x4 truck
08:16:49 <planetmaker> TE = weight * factor_of_adhesion
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08:17:12 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: adhesive weight != vehicle weight
08:17:17 <planetmaker> but the engine might have way less power :-)
08:17:41 <andythenorth> he :) this is fun
08:17:45 <Eddi|zuHause> adhesive weight is only the fraction of the weight that pushes on the powered axles
08:17:56 <planetmaker> well, yes, true. Thx
08:18:23 <petern> "factor_of_adhesion" is the "tractive effort coefficient" that newgrf/nfo uses
08:18:29 <andythenorth> so case of more powered axles for same HP && same weight == more TE?
08:19:08 <planetmaker> andythenorth, no. TE = overall weight on powered axles * factor_of_adhesion
08:19:43 <planetmaker> a powered axle without additional weight on it won't ever add any TE
08:20:08 <andythenorth> does that assume all powered axles will slip at the same point?
08:20:08 <andythenorth> in an idealised scenario?
08:21:52 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: imho in most cases, the engine is never able to deliver enough force to outgrow the theoretical max TE induced by the friction
08:22:01 <planetmaker> with differential gears
08:22:20 <Eddi|zuHause> i have never seen a truck starting with "squeaking tires"
08:22:35 <andythenorth> I have seen a truck spinout on a hill...
08:22:58 <planetmaker> that's something else. But starting from 0km/h
08:23:07 <andythenorth> ah, another BLB fan :)
08:23:55 <planetmaker> he... no objections that that truck without trailer could
08:24:18 <petern> planetmaker, i'd object to the idea that that 'truck' could carry a trailer
08:24:53 <petern> andythenorth, fraid not, just via google images
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08:27:15 <andythenorth> ok, so I am using Terkhen's RV acceleration patch, the TE values I am seeing are simply calculated. Makes sense now. I thought I'd set them somewhere...(smacks head)
08:27:36 <andythenorth> Why would I ever bother changing TE? Case of bulldozers perhaps?
08:27:50 <andythenorth> Case of new roadtypes with different friction properties?
08:28:05 <planetmaker> the capability to tow weight up hill and to accelerate is limited by TE
08:28:50 <andythenorth> but for a 'standard' truck on rubber tyres, on a 'standard' road, I'd need a special reason to bother setting TE explicity?
08:29:13 <Eddi|zuHause> it's maybe relevant for trams
08:29:29 <planetmaker> while power does certainly limit the max velocity, but also max acceleration
08:30:43 <Eddi|zuHause> max velocity of road vehicles is usually limited by outside circumstances (reaction time/braking distance)
08:31:22 <Eddi|zuHause> which is usually governed by speed limits
08:31:33 <andythenorth> Testing some more...think I need to look at unladen weight somewhere. I'm getting inconsistent TE values
08:32:15 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i don't really trust updates by people other than the original creator...
08:50:33 <valhallasw> Eddi|zuHause: so why do you trust the original author? ;)
08:53:30 <Eddi|zuHause> valhallasw: there is a huge difference between designing and implementing a patch, then handing over development to another person, and picking up an abandoned patch and hacking it so it applies to a newer revision
08:54:51 <Eddi|zuHause> independently from the quality of the original patch, the second way is not going to improve it.
09:03:31 <planetmaker> andythenorth, when you split files to new files, mind to add the new files to the repo.
09:03:47 <planetmaker> you keep forgetting that and heqs will fail to compile everywhere but at your place
09:04:05 <Eddi|zuHause> valhallasw: if someone was to seriously pick up development on the patch, he should start with the original patch-queue, and not hack the published patch
09:04:06 <planetmaker> gah, wrong channel :-P
09:05:23 <Eddi|zuHause> imho, the original patch should have focused earlier on getting a trunk inclusion, instead of adding more and more features
09:06:39 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean stuff like the synchronised clock, without all that advanced autospacing stuff
09:19:41 <Rubidium> all those inferior patches in trunk ;)
09:20:30 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: though I agree about ITiM
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10:22:29 <oxblood> hey any1 one on that could give me a little bit of help findin the link to dl AI ?
10:23:13 <TrueBrain> use the ingame Content Service
10:25:34 <Rubidium> "oh shutup spell" is an invalid spell; spell not cast
10:26:00 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +q fjb!*@*
10:26:03 <TrueBrain> spell works for me!
10:26:23 <TrueBrain> you should practice more, young one
10:26:24 <Rubidium> fjb: for what it's worth... it's spell checker
10:26:42 *** DorpsGek sets mode: -q fjb!*@*
10:28:10 <TrueBrain> oxblood: found what you are looking for? The ingame Content Service allows you to download alot of AIs.
10:29:04 <TrueBrain> there is a lot on many websites; care to be slightly more specific?
10:29:53 <oxblood> ive looked in game for "content servise" cant find it
10:29:56 <blathijs> oxblood: There is a button in the game ("Download content" or something similar") that allows you to download AIs from within openttd. No websites involved
10:30:04 <blathijs> oxblood: Which version are you running?
10:30:35 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: ever seen ghotit.com?
10:30:38 <TrueBrain> start the game, and look at the buttons :)
10:30:57 <oxblood> yerp cheers was in a game lookin for it
10:31:03 <oxblood> i see it now thx guys
10:31:09 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: what about it? :)
10:31:34 <blathijs> TrueBrain: Perhaps we should create a wiki page about the download service, with screenshots with big arrows :-)
10:31:46 <TrueBrain> blathijs: isn't there already?
10:32:02 <blathijs> dunno, didn't find it searching for "download" and "content download"
10:32:14 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: pressing 'Check spelling' doesn't really make it more readable :p
10:32:27 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: click on the words
10:32:42 <blathijs> Hmm, I've found "Content_Service", which talks about uploading content
10:33:21 <TrueBrain> nice, that 'feature available' thingy
10:33:28 <blathijs> Rubidium: yeah, just found it
10:33:38 <TrueBrain> no page about IPv6 :(
10:33:57 <blathijs> TrueBrain: Didn't we have a bot for remembering urls?
10:34:05 <blathijs> So we can see @about content or something?
10:34:17 <TrueBrain> not much worth of a bot nowedays
10:34:24 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Error: There is no command "about".
10:35:13 <blathijs> TrueBrain: Hmm, there is something funny with the openttd plugin
10:35:18 <blathijs> DorpsGek: help openttd download
10:35:18 <DorpsGek> blathijs: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
10:35:19 <Rubidium> not much of a bot? it's on the 5th place on memory usage (in top)
10:35:53 <TrueBrain> exactly .. it is on my long list of: replace me!
10:36:28 <TrueBrain> blathijs: openttd module doens't have any help :p
10:36:41 <TrueBrain> either way .. I can't find a good replacement IRC thingy, besides writing one myself :s
10:37:24 <blathijs> TrueBrain: I've heard that gozerbot is pretty ok
10:38:58 <blathijs> TrueBrain: And from a quick glance at their hg repository, it looks maintained
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10:44:46 <Eddi|zuHause> after wt3 do a dorpsgek3?
10:44:47 <TrueBrain> well, we can test it :)
10:45:27 <TrueBrain> but I always get lost in the endless stream of available shit
10:49:11 <TrueBrain> damn, it is S L O W
10:50:36 <TrueBrain> I once wrote this ^^
10:52:35 <TrueBrain> you can't have it all :)
10:53:04 * SmatZ wants it all and wants it now
10:54:09 <TrueBrain> second night in row that I wake up at 04:30, because my neighbour is fucking his girl
10:54:14 <TrueBrain> I somehow dislike that
10:55:27 <valhallasw> disadvantage of student housing :p
10:55:37 <SmatZ> wake your neighbour at 02:00 by fucking your girl
10:55:45 <valhallasw> especially those nice towers :p
10:55:59 <Noldo> or better yet, his girl
10:56:00 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: euh .. he isn't home then :p
10:56:03 <TrueBrain> he comes in at 04:30
10:56:11 <TrueBrain> hmm .. his girl .. she is .. doable :p
10:56:27 <TrueBrain> I somehow also wonder if it is his girl .. as she is mostly already in bed by then ...
10:57:54 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: just place some boxes directly against the wall and play those intensly faked orgasms
10:58:25 <TrueBrain> well .. then all my other neighbours thing I am the pervert
10:58:45 <SmatZ> *they finally find out the truth
10:58:54 <TrueBrain> and I Thought I was the mean person here :p
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11:05:21 <TrueBrain> had to register the name ;)
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12:16:42 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... someone told me there came out a new part of monkey island
12:16:49 <Eddi|zuHause> anybody knows about this?
12:17:01 <TrueBrain> the left center part :p
12:24:21 <Eddi|zuHause> and of course the page renders incorrectly...
12:27:31 <Eddi|zuHause> "Zurück durch populäre Nachfrage, Das Geheimnis von Monkey Island ™ Special Edition getreu wieder, das die international renommierte klassische Spiel (ursprünglich veröffentlicht in 1990) für die ursprüngliche und neue Publikum. Der Entwicklungs-Team bei LucasArts bringt das Spiel in die Moderne mit einer neuen Re-imagined zeitgenössische Kunst Stil, ein Re-mastered musikalischen Ergebnis, VoiceOver voll, und eine eingehende Tipp-
12:27:32 <Eddi|zuHause> System, um Spieler durch das Spiel der Seite Splitting-Puzzles. Puristen wird auch Freude an die Fähigkeit, sich nahtlos zwischen die Aktualisierung von Hand erstellt Re-Imagining und die ursprüngliche klassische Version."
12:27:43 <Eddi|zuHause> ok... someone threw that through google translator...
12:28:02 <Eddi|zuHause> that is NOT german.
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12:28:19 <TrueBrain> either way, it is not english :p
12:28:54 <OwenS> TrueBrain: Actually someo f it is :p
12:29:12 <TrueBrain> in the dutch language are also english words
12:29:28 <OwenS> "VoiceOver" "system" "Splitting-Puzzles". I'd guess System may be common... but the other two? :p
12:30:41 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, it sounds like they just redid the plot of the first game with new graphics...
12:31:04 <OwenS> Except it has a classic mode so you can switch back to the original graphics and get nostalgic :p
12:32:11 <glx> the other link is a new adventure
12:32:37 <glx> with 3D graphics (like they did for sam & max)
12:34:11 <TrueBrain> ... my neighbour is awake
12:34:15 <Eddi|zuHause> the second link says connection refused
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12:42:40 <Eddi|zuHause> really, the telltale site doesn't load...
12:43:50 <glx> maybe it's blocked for germans
12:45:22 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... fifth time is the charm...
13:14:41 <Eddi|zuHause> # Angels with silver wings
13:14:50 <Eddi|zuHause> # shouldn't know suffering
13:41:36 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
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14:11:53 <TrueBrain> lovely .. someone committed an utf-8 filename in a subversion repos
14:12:00 <TrueBrain> now I can't do a checkout (my FS doens't support it)
14:12:02 <TrueBrain> and he can't remove it
14:15:23 <dihedral> there are a few tools that should be able to do that
14:15:26 <TrueBrain> but I can't type the utf-8 char :p
14:15:40 <dihedral> that's what i mean with 'there are a few tools that should .....'
14:16:14 <dihedral> why on earth does your console not support utf-8?
14:16:32 <TrueBrain> because I HATE UTF-8!
14:16:59 <SpComb> have some UTF-8: âêîôû
14:17:33 <dihedral> besides, it's http hosted, right?
14:17:58 <dihedral> you should be able to get the char with svn ls, or use the \u notation
14:18:53 <TrueBrain> "200?\195?\15115" <- yeah, sure mister SVN
14:22:12 <TrueBrain> I just lvoe the fact that you cant remove the file on the system that committed it
14:22:15 <TrueBrain> "file does not exist"
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14:26:04 <TrueBrain> even via remote, it claims the file does not exist
14:26:40 <TrueBrain> ha, found a nasty way :)
14:28:14 <Eddi|zuHause> <TrueBrain> because I HATE UTF-8! <- you can use UTF-16 if you like that more :p
14:28:44 <Eddi|zuHause> gives better compression if you use majorly chinese characters ;)
14:29:33 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... dd_rescue is awfully slow...
14:30:23 <Eddi|zuHause> avg. rate: 6kB/s ... at that speed i can just download the file :p
14:30:45 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: UTF-16 gives better compression with most non-latin languages. And is also significantly faster
14:31:56 <TrueBrain> IRC indeed blocks all UTF-16 ....
14:31:56 <Eddi|zuHause> why wouldn't it?
14:32:11 <TrueBrain> (really .. sometimes I wonder about the intelligence of questions)
14:32:24 <petern> did he just send utf-16...?
14:32:44 <OwenS> If he did it would just come through as crap since IRC assumes characters are 8-bit :p
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14:32:54 <OwenS> wouldn't it block it or wouldn't it work?
14:33:03 <TrueBrain> OwenS: why would IRC interpert the data?!
14:33:08 <Eddi|zuHause> otherwise called "segfault"...
14:33:17 <TrueBrain> it is our clients which do or do not support it
14:33:17 <petern> Eddi|zuHause, utf-16, eh?
14:33:25 <OwenS> TrueBrain: Because names come through as 8-bit characters
14:33:32 <_ln> TrueBrain: does UTF-16 contain all byte values 0..255, and if yes, does IRC support all of those?
14:33:39 <OwenS> Remember IRC doesn't contain a charset identifier - it was designed for ASCII
14:33:53 <TrueBrain> after the : is raw send
14:34:02 <TrueBrain> fair enoguh, I think a 00 makes it stop
14:34:26 <Eddi|zuHause> well, obviously konversation crashes...
14:34:40 <TrueBrain> hehe :) No real suprise :p
14:34:46 <OwenS> TrueBrain: So it would work for non-ascii characters :p
14:34:48 <_ln> OwenS: not entirely true, it was more like designed for ISO-something, the one where ä is {, etc.
14:35:11 <TrueBrain> given that ASCII goes to 127, yes
14:35:21 <OwenS> TrueBrain: Or actually not since you'd get an odd number of output bytes:p
14:35:25 <Eddi|zuHause> wasn't IRC invented by a finnish guy?
14:35:26 <petern> you can send utf-16, as long as there's no 00 byte in it
14:35:37 <petern> that is not all that likely
14:35:39 <TrueBrain> petern: and I guess a \n char will kill it too
14:35:42 <OwenS> Yes but the terminator will get truncated
14:35:57 <TrueBrain> [16:35] <OwenS> TrueBrain: Or actually not since you'd get an odd number of output bytes:p <- QUE?
14:35:58 <Eddi|zuHause> don't they have ä's, too?
14:36:02 <TrueBrain> after a :, spaces are alllowed
14:36:24 <petern> a space is "00 20" (or "20 00" depending)
14:36:33 <TrueBrain> so 00 is the problem ;)
14:37:49 <_ln> Eddi|zuHause: finnish has ä and ö of non-ASCII, (and kind of also š and ž, but very few people use those).
14:37:50 <petern> you could make openttd a bit simpler by using ucs-4 :D
14:38:12 <OwenS> UCS-4 is 40% wasted bits...
14:38:21 <Rubidium> yup, would mean talking to icu is easier
14:38:38 <OwenS> Huh? ICU works in UTF-16
14:38:39 <TrueBrain> lets par2 encode all conversations
14:39:59 <TrueBrain> and suprise suprise, IRC allowed it
14:40:25 <_ln> here too, but what i wrote was 17:38 < __ln> testing one two sixteen...
14:40:37 <Eddi|zuHause> i saw a þ and a ÿ
14:40:43 <SmatZ> encoding that allows \0 as non-terminal byte is bad
14:41:18 <Rubidium> OwenS: not if you use UChar32
14:41:20 <_ln> i guess this proves that if any of you chooses to migrate to UTF-16 on irc, you may encounter even more resistance than with UTF-8.
14:41:38 <OwenS> I think I run UTF-8 anyway
14:42:02 <TrueBrain> sadly enough, I do :(
14:42:28 <OwenS> Anyway, you'd need everyone else to use UTF-16 for it to work :p
14:43:42 <OwenS> And Rubidium: Most of the ICU API runs on UChars
14:44:33 <Rubidium> ofcourse... someone had thought about being (bug) compatible with MS again
14:44:59 <OwenS> Why? UCS-4 is generally slower and not much easier to work with
14:45:41 <Rubidium> those poor people using characters outside of the first 16 bit plane
14:45:52 <OwenS> It's UTF-16. It supports them!
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14:46:35 <OwenS> The ICU API actually includes functions for iterating over UTF-16 which returns a UChar32 which it decodes from the surrogate pairs if needed
14:46:43 <SmatZ> glx: that's what I got when decoding __ln's post as UTF-16
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15:23:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17158 /branches/0.7/ (14 files in 7 dirs): (log message trimmed)
15:23:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [0.7] -Backport from trunk:
15:23:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Some typos in .obg stuff (r17136)
15:23:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Mark industry tiles dirty when trigger are triggered (r17118)
15:23:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Squirrel_export.sh failed for some locales (r17109)
15:23:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Make restart command work again and make the help show how it works and how it does not work [FS#3092] (r17097)
15:23:07 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Make ParseStringChoice a bit safer (r17095)
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15:31:53 <Eddi|zuHause> err... did that guy really say he is using a computer from 1996?
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15:35:08 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17159 /extra/website/bananas/views.py: [website] -Fix: some typos in BaNaNaS' backend
15:35:11 <TrueBrain> I always wonder if they truly don't have the money to buy something slightly better :p
15:36:43 * Rubidium wonders... slightly better computer you rarely use vs. going on vacation
15:37:07 <TrueBrain> for 50 euro you can't go on a vacation
15:37:57 <Rubidium> for that amount you can't buy a slightly better computer
15:38:06 <TrueBrain> from one out 1996? Sure you can
15:38:17 <Rubidium> 1996 computer => upgrading parts almost equals new computer
15:39:55 <TrueBrain> and I am very sure your local computer shop can do that too
15:40:09 <TrueBrain> (no, not the big-names computer shop, your local not-so-known :p)
15:51:48 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17160 /branches/0.7/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs):
15:51:48 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [0.7] -Backport from trunk:
15:51:48 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: A stuck train could free the reservation of another train if it was reversed or did crash (r17152)
15:51:48 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: A train entering a PBS section through a block signal could cause a train crash if another reservation ending at a safe tile was already present in the section [FS#3104] (r17151)
15:51:49 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Update vehicle position cache when the vehicle sprite changes [FS#3060] (r17121)
15:51:49 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: News message about ordered refits failing was not very clear [FS#3091] (r17096)
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16:11:33 <andythenorth> RV improved acceleration: should I bother setting air drag for HEQS vehicles? A large dump truck doesn't go fast enough that air drag should matter much. On the other hand it's shaped like a brick.
16:12:02 <andythenorth> A brick with sticky out, vortext-inducing, draggy shapes stuck on...
16:14:26 <Eddi|zuHause> and if i tune my bulldozer so it goes 200km/h down the autobahn? :p
16:15:29 <andythenorth> if? You mean you haven't already?
16:15:34 <Rubidium> then the government can rebuild all bridges :)
16:16:19 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: That would be an impressive sight
16:16:47 <OwenS> Particularly a tracked bulldozer
16:16:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i do not want to drive 160 and have a bulldozer flashlight me from behind :p
16:17:28 <OwenS> I do wish the UK would switch the motorways to metric. Would make things much easier for me
16:18:29 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, mistaking a 130km/h sign to mean 130mph is way cooler than mistaking a 100mph sign to mean 100km/h :p
16:18:31 <andythenorth> so no answer on air drag then 9.9
16:19:12 <Eddi|zuHause> air drag really only becomes an issue once you pass 150km/h
16:19:27 <andythenorth> ahah that's an answer I can use :)
16:20:15 <Eddi|zuHause> which is why trucks are not streamlined
16:22:43 <Eddi|zuHause> it's the same reason why they stopped streamlining steam engines. when they cannot even reach 120 on most tracks, the streamlining does not take any effect, while it heavily increases maintenance effort
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16:28:00 <petern> is airdrag even an option for road vehicle acceleration?
16:28:08 <petern> it's transport game :s
16:28:19 <petern> not a bloody sports car simulation...
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16:28:54 <Rubidium> which is why we desperatly need 3 types of train acceleration :)
16:29:45 <Rubidium> the one you were working on adding?
16:30:17 <petern> i wanted one that had sensible units ;)
16:30:35 <Eddi|zuHause> how did that go? :p
16:30:54 <petern> can't expect me to remember everything
16:30:59 <petern> dunno, got bored with it
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17:05:28 <Eddi|zuHause> "After writing his memoirs, George W. Bush will admit
17:05:34 <Eddi|zuHause> that most of the book was written
17:05:42 <Eddi|zuHause> by the microsoft word paperclip"
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17:09:53 <OwenS> Have I mentioned how much I can't wait for my new internet connection? :p
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17:10:03 <TrueBrain> OwenS: when will it be there?
17:10:11 <TrueBrain> (and believe me, we can't wait on it either)
17:10:53 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: how can that be? Word may not be sold in Texas
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17:45:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r17161 /trunk/src/lang/ (7 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
17:45:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 5 changes by Kwokfu
17:45:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: croatian - 74 changes by Tifached
17:45:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: czech - 4 changes by SmatZ
17:45:39 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: german - 4 changes by planetmaker
17:45:39 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: greek - 75 changes by fumantsu
17:47:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17162 /trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): -Change: move Greek out of unfinished
17:48:29 <Eddi|zuHause> yay, now i can play with greek translation!
17:49:50 <Prof_Frink> It's all greek to me.
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18:06:56 <Eddi|zuHause> funnily, in germany, we say the same thing about spanish :p
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18:08:44 <Eddi|zuHause> apparently, you people did not have a greek speaking ruler in the 10th century ;)
18:09:08 <Eddi|zuHause> a woman, nonetheless!
18:16:16 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: We also use the term "Pardon my french" to excuse swearing... languages are funny :p
18:22:02 <TrueBrain> I have all these stat-files, and somehow I need to process them .. and C is not the best language to do such processing :p
18:22:49 <TrueBrain> again I have to say no :p
18:22:55 <Eddi|zuHause> real programmers use cobol :p
18:23:42 <TrueBrain> my whole app is already in C and C++
18:23:50 <Eddi|zuHause> or better: algol
18:23:50 <TrueBrain> I don't feel like spoiling that by adding another language :p
18:23:58 <Eddi|zuHause> the language that never had a complete compiler :p
18:24:37 <Eddi|zuHause> algol had like every feature the people could imagine at that time...
18:25:08 <Eddi|zuHause> you could do object oriented programming in it, even though that wasn't even invented yet
18:26:26 <Eddi|zuHause> basically, pascal was invented by cutting features from algol
18:26:44 <Eddi|zuHause> and c was invented by cutting features from algol and replacing begin/end by {}
18:27:15 <TrueBrain> and aliens were our grand-grand parents :p
18:27:27 <frosch123> c was invented because someone did not knew what to do with ! " $ % & and such
18:28:55 <Eddi|zuHause> well, they had to cut features because it was really impossible to build a compiler...
18:29:33 <TrueBrain> 2 years ago I had to learn which language came from which and why and blabla
18:29:38 <TrueBrain> can't remember a single letter from it :p
18:29:54 <Eddi|zuHause> really? i have that complete tree in my brain ;)
18:30:08 <Eddi|zuHause> even though i have probably had less looks at it than you ;)
18:30:28 <TrueBrain> the tree I looked over twice
18:30:44 <frosch123> where is sed in that tree?
18:30:46 <TrueBrain> but that was because it was on the same page as some interesting story :)
18:31:26 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: it did not really list _all_ languages
18:31:51 <frosch123> but, it is my favorite language :(
18:32:12 <Eddi|zuHause> when it would say "regular expressions", that includes all derivatives like grep, sed, vim...
18:32:40 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: grep is not turing complete to my knowledge
18:32:59 <Eddi|zuHause> regular expressions are not turing complete
18:34:33 <frosch123> TrueBrain: how can someone invent fortran 77 in 78?
18:34:46 <TrueBrain> frosch123: why you ask me? Eddi|zuHause knows this tree!
18:35:16 <Eddi|zuHause> well, my one looked slightly different ;)
18:35:28 <TrueBrain> 3 entries: ALGON, PASCAL and C?
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18:35:49 <frosch123> at least ADA should be at the top
18:36:02 <TrueBrain> you are not a Viking I hope?
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18:36:15 <TrueBrain> then what can we do for you?
18:36:30 <Wikie> I'm the old Desolator/Madassasin from TT-Forums, if you still remember me.
18:36:58 <Wikie> For some reason I got interested into continuing my old OTTD updater...
18:37:16 <TrueBrain> you cant have enough of those ;)
18:37:25 <Wikie> I'm here to ask what chances it would have to become an "official" one?
18:37:40 <Wikie> I saw another two that appeared since I discontinued mine.
18:37:51 <TrueBrain> I would say: zero. Mostly as there are more out there; what would make yours better than the others?
18:38:25 <Wikie> dunno if the others are protable, but I intend to make this one portable using Qt
18:38:52 <TrueBrain> then they make it Qt compatible; doesn't give an argument why yours should be official, and theirs not :)
18:38:52 <Xaroth> everything that runs .net or mono?
18:39:06 <Prof_Frink> TrueBrain: Build an updater into ottd and send updates via bananas?
18:39:08 <Xaroth> but I never worked on the unix systems because they have funky shell scripts anyhow
18:39:18 <TrueBrain> Prof_Frink: no thank you
18:39:35 * Wikie gives a cookie to anyone but Xaroth for using an evil framework.
18:39:53 <Xaroth> Wikie: You're using Qt.
18:39:54 <TrueBrain> so we get a cookie every time someone else uses .NET ..
18:40:21 <Prof_Frink> Qt is cute. Cute things are not evil.
18:40:29 <Wikie> Xaroth, it's not MS; It's not *HUGE*; It can be linked statically; It's free software.
18:40:36 <Rubidium> ssht... heh TrueBrain, did you know that those guys at OpenTTD use .NET too?
18:40:51 <Xaroth> i don't recall ever paying for it
18:41:02 <Xaroth> heck they even removed WGA from it
18:41:07 <Wikie> I mean free as in free speech.
18:41:29 <TrueBrain> don't you mean free beer?
18:41:29 <Xaroth> what does talking have to do with it :P
18:41:45 <TrueBrain> as freedom of speech is .. well .. something different :p
18:42:36 <Xaroth> Since when has wikipedia become an official list of anything?
18:42:53 <Rubidium> what about free (as in speech) ransomware?
18:42:56 <Prof_Frink> Maybe FSF would be better.
18:43:34 <Xaroth> I don't prefer what M$ did, especially with their versioning after 2.0 .. but it works, and it's easy.
18:43:59 <Xaroth> not to mention i cba learning C :P
18:44:05 <TrueBrain> Wikie: give me a sec, let me change a page ......
18:44:08 <Wikie> TrueBrain, anyway, what chances would have any updater to become official? If any, what would be the requirements?
18:44:19 <TrueBrain> Wikie: didn't I just say that? Zero?
18:44:19 <OwenS> It works? .net doesn't work for me :P
18:44:49 <TrueBrain> or Rubidium need to have a significant other opinion on that matter, but somehow I doubt that :)
18:45:08 <Wikie> At least with Qt you don't need to DL and install a huge library.
18:45:10 <TrueBrain> Wikie: your updater won't be better than the next .. so why would yours be the official, and not the next?
18:45:19 <Wikie> (ignores the fact that it comes prebundled on Vista & 7)
18:45:33 <Xaroth> Wikie: it comes prebundled with just about every recent windows install?
18:45:39 <Wikie> TrueBrain, cause the next isn't written already :P
18:45:49 <TrueBrain> you make really good arguments
18:45:54 <TrueBrain> maybe you should ask me the same question again in 2 minutes
18:45:58 <TrueBrain> I like replying with: zero :)
18:45:58 <Wikie> Xaroth, still more people use XP than Vista.
18:46:34 <OwenS> .net has always been optional on XP
18:46:42 <TrueBrain> it is hard to have a Windows computer without .NET .. many basic software wants to install it
18:47:21 <TrueBrain> install MS Office, you get .NET
18:47:31 * fjb hat .net on his mobile phone. :-(
18:47:36 <TrueBrain> install <wont name the AV here>, you get .NET
18:47:44 <Xaroth> Install ATI drivers, you get .net
18:47:45 <TrueBrain> and the list goes on and on
18:47:51 <TrueBrain> the installer mostly only needs .NET
18:47:55 <TrueBrain> oh, now we are going to classify the software?
18:48:11 <Wikie> I've yet to see an installer needing .NET.
18:48:29 <fjb> The most stupid thing Microsoft did was chosing the name ".net".
18:48:29 <TrueBrain> maybe you should start up a windows computer
18:48:31 <petern> TrueBrain, "ms office" is not basic software...
18:48:38 <TrueBrain> petern: depending on the user :p
18:48:43 <Wikie> TrueBrain, I have two of them.
18:48:45 <TrueBrain> fjb: you are so right :)
18:48:57 <petern> and it certainly isn't a "must install" suite
18:49:19 <Xaroth> Wikie: I really don't think trying to bash other people's choices won't make your choices look any better.
18:49:21 <TrueBrain> either way, off the .. what .. 100 random windows computer sI can access, 90% has .NET installed
18:49:30 <Wikie> Would be kind of stupid: "Hello, it looks like you're using XP. Before you can run the X Setup you must first download .NET. Have a nice day!"
18:49:45 <Xaroth> That's why they invented redistributables
18:49:53 <Xaroth> .. redi..something.. i hate that word
18:50:00 <petern> i'm pretty sure it gets installed with windows updates
18:50:12 <TrueBrain> I have it all the time .. insert CD .. installing .NET framework ... welcome to setup!
18:50:14 <Xaroth> windows update with standard settings installs 3.5
18:50:20 <TrueBrain> I deinstall it after the install of that software ...
18:50:53 <OwenS> Xaroth: Not the automatic updates. Just update.microsoft.com
18:53:24 <TrueBrain> either way, Wikie, Xaroth is right, bashing others doesn't give any argument why yours should be oh-so-more-special than any other
18:53:42 <Wikie> I'm not using that as an argument.
18:54:57 <OwenS> Qt is probably the widget toolkit which plays nicely with the most desktop environments though
19:04:37 * Wikie digs around the net for the source to his old updater.
19:04:45 <Wikie> Anyone got a least a screenshot of it?
19:06:20 <TrueBrain> why should we? You claim it is yours!
19:06:56 <Wikie> I haven't had the source since umm...a year or two. I've chnaged two computers since then.
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19:20:22 <Nite_Owl> fairly well - and you?
19:20:43 <Nite_Owl> still lost in DOS code madness?
19:21:11 <TrueBrain> took today a bit of effort to see if we can get some legal status on a OpenDune2 project :)
19:21:16 <TrueBrain> (with a big tnx to Xaroth :))
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19:22:28 <blathijs> TrueBrain: Did you get it running?
19:22:38 <TrueBrain> very well in fact :)
19:22:53 <blathijs> What was the big unfindable problem in the end/
19:23:32 <TrueBrain> every command, ALUs, moves, ... has a sign-extend variant, where you need to sign-extend a byte to a word to do the action on
19:23:41 <TrueBrain> this worked for all ALUs .. but not for 'mov' :p
19:23:50 <TrueBrain> a stupid type ... int16 what should have been int8
19:24:00 <TrueBrain> after fixing that, everything worked flawless :)
19:24:22 <OwenS> TrueBrain: I bet you wish x86 was RISC. Would make your job much easier :p
19:25:16 <TrueBrain> there is always some command you fuck up
19:25:27 <OwenS> TrueBrain: Yes. But less instructions to fuck uo :p
19:25:44 <TrueBrain> I find 250 commands not that horrible
19:26:13 <OwenS> The average RISC has about 64 - 100.. quite a bit less
19:27:35 <TrueBrain> no .. I don't think it would have changed much
19:27:51 <TrueBrain> you make mistakes; I made a handful (I believe 4) on 250 commands
19:27:55 <TrueBrain> else it would have been 2 .. still a nag to find
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19:31:23 <_ln> Eddi|zuHause: is there a local beer brand or something in Halle?
19:31:44 <Eddi|zuHause> Halle is not exactly known for its beer...
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19:32:27 <planetmaker> you should have Köstrizer there, too :-)
19:32:45 <planetmaker> but well... that originates in: Köstritz
19:32:49 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, Köstritzer, Radeberger, Hasseröder
19:33:21 <planetmaker> well yeah... but Köstritzer tastes best of them :-)
19:33:36 <_ln> that's four brands i've never heard of
19:33:37 <Eddi|zuHause> i did not argue that ;)
19:34:04 <planetmaker> hm... dunno about small, local breweries. I know two pretty good ones in Jena
19:34:22 <Eddi|zuHause> you should stay away from Oettinger ;)
19:34:22 <planetmaker> (which is not THAT far)
19:34:33 <planetmaker> urgs. Very much indeed
19:35:21 <Eddi|zuHause> _ln: Hasserode is near Wernigerode (Harz), Radeberg is near Dresden
19:35:47 <Eddi|zuHause> Altenburg and Köstritz are southwards
19:36:09 <frosch123> Radeberger is east germany's famous beer :p
19:36:23 <TrueBrain> it seems to happen when you do 'import this' .. but I don't want to do that :p
19:37:11 <frosch123> well, during my military service you could guess the home of everyone by letting him choose Radeberger or Beck's :p
19:37:40 <frosch123> (13 years after reunion)
19:37:58 <Eddi|zuHause> Altenburger has these practical *plop* bottles, that you do not need an opener for
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19:38:20 <frosch123> so Altenburger vs. Flensburger :p
19:38:24 <planetmaker> but that's a different region :-)
19:38:32 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but Flensburg is not anywhere close ;)
19:38:53 <planetmaker> depends upon the definition of "close" :-P
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19:39:19 <Eddi|zuHause> it's neither within 200km, nor in east germany ;)
19:39:34 <Eddi|zuHause> that should cover most definitions of "close"
19:39:45 <Eddi|zuHause> except the russian one ;)
19:39:58 <planetmaker> I thought about Australian ones. But they might be similar.
19:40:00 <_ln> but Flensburg is close to Denmark!
19:40:26 <frosch123> about as close as you can get
19:40:31 <Eddi|zuHause> not before 1866 ;)
19:40:54 <Eddi|zuHause> as it was actually IN denmark then ;(
19:42:21 <_ln> the last (and only) time I was in Flensburg, sitting in the car, an old-looking tank passes by on the street.
19:42:59 <Eddi|zuHause> the historic border between the holy roman empire and denmark was the Eider (river near Kiel)
19:44:13 <Eddi|zuHause> until bismarck came along ;)
19:44:52 <frosch123> bismarck? i thought it was started by austria?
19:45:33 <Eddi|zuHause> no, the german-danish war was the first part of bismarcks plot to drive austria out of the german confederation
19:48:15 <Vikthor> But somehow he managed to talk Austria to ally with him against Denmark
19:49:23 * frosch123 always wondered about that, as austria and denmark are so much neighbours
19:49:33 <Vikthor> a year later or few more after that he declared war on Austria and won
19:50:38 <frosch123> welcome to our history lesson :)
19:51:07 <SmatZ> what, the world wasn't created by God?
19:51:20 * TrueBrain gives SmatZ a bible
19:51:39 <Vikthor> God? I thought it was flying spaghetti monster?
19:51:42 <frosch123> no, it was about bismarcks liking flensburg's beer
19:51:55 <SmatZ> it's a shame, I have never been good in history
19:52:13 <Eddi|zuHause> german history is full of great stories ;)
19:52:19 <SmatZ> actually, I think conflicts from history shouldn't be used as argument in todays dialogues
19:53:22 <Eddi|zuHause> opposing to other countries' history... like the USA... their history is so boring they need to memorise every single of their presidents in the right order to make it remotely challenging...
19:54:13 <_ln> and their own history is basically all they learn in school, right?
19:55:31 <Nite_Owl> in High School yes - at University no
19:56:25 <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: yes and no. you should not blame the current citizens for the mistakes of their ancestors, but you should know them to prevent them from repeating
19:56:46 * frosch123 did not learn non-europe history either (except egypt, but that is somehow european)
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19:57:00 <SmatZ> frosch123: and Mesopotamia, China?
19:57:35 <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: mesopotamia is as european as egypt. and history of china was really neglected
19:57:47 <Vikthor> frosch123: And at least brief history of Americas?
19:57:49 <frosch123> SmatZ: none of them in school; before egypt is iron and stone age
19:58:27 <SmatZ> early american history is strongly connected with europe :)
19:58:43 <Eddi|zuHause> no, that is the late american history
19:58:46 <frosch123> nope, there were three pages about british history in the english lessons, but only about boring stuff like spreading pestilence
19:59:01 <SmatZ> depends what you call early and what late :-x
19:59:12 <Nite_Owl> The history of the U.S. is basically one of asking the Native Americans to move over just a bit
19:59:12 *** Muddy is now known as _Muddy
19:59:13 <Eddi|zuHause> american history is really not that interesting...
19:59:29 *** _Muddy is now known as Muddy
19:59:35 <SmatZ> so peaceful? compared to european
19:59:37 <petern> well it only goes back a couple of decades...
20:00:02 <Eddi|zuHause> for example the french-indian war (which was one of the neglected parts) between france and england was really fought in prussia (and there it was called seven-years-war, or third silesian war)
20:00:08 <Vikthor> petern: If you take American as US history than sure
20:00:12 <frosch123> SmatZ: not peaceful, but less organised
20:00:37 <Eddi|zuHause> and the american civil war i basically only know from the game "north and south"
20:01:24 <Nite_Owl> watch the Ken Burns documentary
20:01:59 * frosch123 knows most us history from colonization context help
20:02:39 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: yes, but that does not really cover the time after the independence
20:03:01 <Nite_Owl> like any countries' history it all depends on how deep into it you go
20:03:38 <Eddi|zuHause> well, history lessons in germany basically revolved around france and germany
20:04:01 <Eddi|zuHause> and their connections with england and russia
20:04:14 * SmatZ wonders what is taught about world wars in germany (esp. the second world war)
20:04:24 <Eddi|zuHause> everything else was only minor notices...
20:04:34 <frosch123> SmatZ: until you throw up
20:04:55 <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: they spend basically one whole year on this
20:05:22 <Eddi|zuHause> well, in the history lessons
20:05:27 <frosch123> SmatZ: you do not learn anything about past 45 though
20:05:39 <Eddi|zuHause> there are topics in literature and stuff as well ;(
20:05:40 <Vikthor> That's same problem here
20:05:40 <OwenS> In the UK we spend about a year on both world wars (Well, thats in the mandatory part of the curiculum; the optional part I dunno)
20:06:14 <SmatZ> I hope the same things are taught, too, like "germany attacked poland" and not the other way around :)
20:06:29 <Vikthor> There is no time in curicculum for history after WWII
20:06:31 <_ln> an american told #somewhere that a lot of americans believe WW II was about US and Britain forming an alliance with Germany to fight the soviets.
20:06:31 <Prof_Frink> Don't mention the war!
20:07:19 <frosch123> SmatZ: well, actually I told you wrong, usually it stops at 39
20:07:21 <SmatZ> actually, we were taught hardly anything from 1948-nowadays in History
20:08:05 <Wikie> Xaroth, I get an unhandled exception once I try to refresh the server list in your updater.
20:08:06 <frosch123> hmm, though, maybe also until uk joins
20:08:06 <Prof_Frink> _ln: I doubt that. Americans learn history from films, so WWII was "America saves teh day again!"
20:08:12 <SmatZ> very few things... like "monetary reform" and other very important things, but not detailed...
20:08:29 <Wikie> (I'd launch a debugger but I don't have VC# installed)
20:08:41 <SmatZ> Prof_Frink: well, actually... how far is that from truth? :-p
20:09:26 <SmatZ> if there were no America, would Germany have first nuclear bomb and destroy rest of world?
20:10:32 <frosch123> unlikely, only uk maybe
20:10:52 <frosch123> but you are approaching c&c
20:11:07 <SmatZ> nah, I never played that :(
20:11:33 <SmatZ> I read Gemany wasn't far from having one...
20:11:43 <SmatZ> but well, "I read", "I heard" and such
20:11:52 <SmatZ> maybe there was no WWII at all...
20:12:02 <SmatZ> maybe there wasn't anything before 1985
20:12:41 <frosch123> damn, how did he notice
20:13:36 <SmatZ> btw Bjarni told me such theries about non-existing WWII
20:13:41 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 3 weeks, 1 day, 20 hours, 24 minutes, and 30 seconds ago: <Bjarni> as long as it doesn't happen every 5th minute
20:13:48 <frosch123> [22:08] <SmatZ> actually, we were taught hardly anything from 1948-nowadays in History <- uhm, you tell me that 54 (or was it 56?) is missing
20:14:19 <z-MaTRiX> SmatZ<< that's not right, at least im real
20:14:36 <SmatZ> frosch123: if you mean the monetary reform, political processes....
20:14:50 <SmatZ> ah, 68, I guess we were taught about that... at least a bit :)
20:14:59 <SmatZ> but there are documents about that nowadays
20:15:06 <SmatZ> "20 years after fall of communism"
20:15:15 <SmatZ> so I get a lot of information from there
20:15:17 <Eddi|zuHause> the basic outline that i remember was: 5th grade: stone age and bronce age (local history mostly, like visiting graves). 6th grade: mesopotamia, egypt, greece. 7th grade: rome, frankian empire, holy roman empire (early time). 8th grade: 30 years war, france (Louis XIV), prussia (frederic II), french revolution, napoleon. 9th grade: german confederation, german-french war, first world war, russian revolution. 10th grade: treaty of
20:15:18 <Eddi|zuHause> versailles, republic of weimar, uprising of the nazi party, 3rd reich, second world war, small episodes after the war (split of germany, berlin blockade)... and a short glimpse about the reunification
20:15:23 <SmatZ> like, it wasn't that bad as some people say :-p
20:16:13 <glx> luckily we don't have to know all our presidents name (especially the third republic ones ;) )
20:16:39 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: are you from the wester or easter germany? did that influence what you were taught?
20:17:10 <Eddi|zuHause> in 11th and 12th grade, you go through the entire history again. but this time you pick smaller episodes that you discuss in further depth
20:17:29 * _ln is quite sure Eddi|zuHause's 5th grade was after reunification.
20:18:12 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. reunification was in my 2nd/3rd grade, i believe
20:18:12 <SmatZ> glx: we got a lot of information about france :)
20:18:31 <glx> but third republic was silly :)
20:18:54 <Eddi|zuHause> glx: third republic was after 1871?
20:19:06 <Eddi|zuHause> or was that the fourth?
20:19:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think we talked much about that
20:20:10 <Eddi|zuHause> we only talked about the revolution, jacobians and girondists, then napoleon
20:20:12 * SmatZ has a strong urgo to play Civilisation (the first one of course ;)
20:20:17 <Eddi|zuHause> nothing really afterwards
20:20:38 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: I wish I had your memory :-/
20:20:46 <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: i vaguely remember that someone tried to do a civ1 mod for civ4
20:20:48 <frosch123> no, after 1871 everything is about bismarck keying france, uk, russia, germany and austria
20:20:54 <frosch123> oh, italy and spain too
20:21:17 <glx> hmm indeed third 1870->1940, fourth 1946->1958
20:21:48 <Vikthor> Eddi|zuHause: I would say Third, First were jacobians and co., Second was after 1848 or so before Napoleon III proclaimed himself Emperor
20:22:19 <SmatZ> hmm shame, I am worst in history of you all :(
20:22:53 <frosch123> no, you are only worst in hiding it
20:22:56 <glx> I used wiki to check dates :)
20:22:58 <Eddi|zuHause> there was a quick mentioning about when germany won over france in the war of 70/71, france became a republic again, but i really have no sense of counting there ;)
20:23:19 <glx> Eddi|zuHause: when you stole alsace ;)
20:23:25 <_ln> has any contemporary politician tried to declare e.g. the french revolution as an act of terrorism?
20:23:32 <frosch123> alsace, is that elsa? ?
20:23:32 <Eddi|zuHause> glx: earned back :p
20:23:40 <Eddi|zuHause> glx: napoleon stole it first
20:23:51 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: elsaß, yes
20:23:58 <frosch123> oh, damn, i stalled a sed to replace them into questionmark
20:25:26 <Eddi|zuHause> well, actually, they switched alignment quite a few times since Charlemagne's ancestors split up the empire into 3 parts
20:26:23 <Eddi|zuHause> Alsace and Loth(a)ringue belonged to Lothar's middle empire originally
20:26:47 <Eddi|zuHause> which quickly was split up between the western (french) empire and the eastern (german) empire
20:28:13 <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: yes, sometimes it frightenes me, how much i can remember without opening wikipedia.
20:28:55 <frosch123> true, you do not have to open wikipedia, if it is already opened
20:30:40 * Wikie just gravedigged a 2 year or topic.
20:31:09 <Eddi|zuHause> Wikie: that's nothing, i have seen 5 year digs...
20:31:25 <Wikie> I've got an excuse: it's my topic.
20:33:21 <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: to be fair, not everything that i told here i actually learned in school
20:33:39 <Eddi|zuHause> i also played civilization quite a lot, and read up on some aspects vaguely mentioned there
20:34:10 <Eddi|zuHause> the history lessons sometimes leave quite some holes in the development
20:35:20 <Eddi|zuHause> history is full of terrorists
20:35:33 <Eddi|zuHause> Robin Hood being a famous one...
20:35:48 <Eddi|zuHause> only Americans know nothing of history, so their terrorism starts in 2001
20:36:39 <Xaroth> Wikie: can you pm me the exception so i can trace it down?
20:36:56 <Eddi|zuHause> if you interpret the bible a little, you can certainly prove that goliath's david was a terrorist
20:38:13 <SmatZ> history is written by winners
20:39:39 <frosch123> really? it's hard to count how often jerusalem is destroyed in the bible
20:40:15 <frosch123> though usually they say, it's their own fault :)
20:41:06 <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: that is not entirely true. after WWII, france and germany formed a committee that reviewed each other's history book, to make the view more objective and prevent the buildup of further hatered
20:42:05 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: very good thing to do
20:42:29 <SmatZ> I never understood why is there so much dislike between france and germany
20:42:35 <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: it would be the right thing to do in israel/palestina, but they are kind of resisting
20:43:00 <frosch123> SmatZ: because they are neighbours?
20:43:38 <SmatZ> frosch123: czechia has neighbours too, and except austria (rather some people there), it's all ok :)
20:44:15 <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: but czechia was not really a major force during most times ;)
20:44:27 <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: the stronger you are, the more enemies you make
20:44:31 <frosch123> SmatZ: so czech and slovaks like each other?
20:44:39 <Prof_Frink> frosch123: This is true.
20:44:57 <SmatZ> frosch123: rather politics wanted to have each their own republic :-p
20:45:10 <SmatZ> but slovaks are stil our brothers
20:45:18 <frosch123> hmm, i always thought each wanted to gain the other
20:45:49 <_ln> in israel/palestina, more than 50% of both peoples support the idea of continuing fights.
20:46:03 <_ln> so.. it's democratic and it's never going to end.
20:46:05 <SmatZ> frosch123: I don't think anyone wanted that
20:46:13 <Eddi|zuHause> _ln: yes, because they were not taught differently
20:46:37 <Eddi|zuHause> and if the history books are not changed, each generation will be taught the same hate against the other
20:47:12 <Eddi|zuHause> _ln: a majority in germany and france wanted to fight each other in 1914 for the exact same reason
20:47:24 <Eddi|zuHause> each side was conditioned to hate the other one for past humiliations
20:47:24 <SmatZ> frosch123: (I think it's the first time I hear that opinion)
20:47:42 <Eddi|zuHause> the germans for napoleon and the french for the defeat in 1871
20:47:47 <frosch123> hehe, well, I guess it was just me then :)
20:48:15 <Eddi|zuHause> and the treaty of versailles only further sharpened this, leading up to the second world war
20:48:36 <Eddi|zuHause> which is why in 1945 the allies did not repeat that mistake again
20:48:47 <Vikthor> frosch123: Well it depends whom you ask, certainly there are people here who don't like Slovaks
20:49:27 <Vikthor> but it's just insignificant minority
20:50:11 <_ln> btw, i think there's a significant number of people in the world who would get offended by the expression "israel/palestina".
20:50:16 <Eddi|zuHause> Vikthor: there are people here who dislike bavarians, too ;)
20:50:22 <Vikthor> Eddi|zuHause: They did not repeated that moslt because they needed Germany against USSR
20:50:43 * SmatZ was very influenced by russian fairy tales... about how rich people are bad and poor are good :-p
20:50:48 <Eddi|zuHause> Vikthor: not necessarily
20:51:24 <Eddi|zuHause> Vikthor: the basics of post-war germany were already laid out in the conferences like yalta, where the cold war was not really taking off yet
20:51:31 <Vikthor> Well there were plans how to turn Germany into agrarian state
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20:52:04 <OwenS> But it wasn't until after 1945 that the Western and USSR relationship really fell apart
20:52:05 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, there were a lot of plans...
20:53:17 <Eddi|zuHause> i believe the real indicators of the upcoming cold war were only immediately apparent starting around 1948
20:54:18 <Nite_Owl> they were somewhat apparent when Stalin did not leave Eastern Europe after the war ended
20:55:14 <glx> btw we had a nice defense line against germany, but someone passed around it ;)
20:56:09 * Wikie pulls out his Panzerwefer and fires at glx.
20:56:15 <Vikthor> glx: We also had one very nice defence, but we were forced to pass it to Germany
20:56:27 <Eddi|zuHause> Vikthor: well, i'm not denying that some parts of that actually came into action
20:56:57 <Eddi|zuHause> glx: well, yes, who could have known that germany took a detour around belgium :p
20:57:09 <frosch123> oh yes, as my teacher said: czech chooses the wrong friends
20:57:34 <SmatZ> frosch123: yeah :( but was there any other choice? :(
20:57:45 <glx> Eddi|zuHause: and worse, they could fire only in one direction :)
20:57:54 <frosch123> apeacement strategy :)
20:58:04 <frosch123> never works in civilisation either
20:58:16 <Vikthor> Eddi|zuHause: Especially when they did already in 1871 and 1914 :)
20:58:28 <SmatZ> frosch123: hehe, just wanted to say that :)
20:58:49 <Eddi|zuHause> Vikthor: yeah, just wanted to say that ;)
21:04:01 <Eddi|zuHause> Vikthor: of course it is very obvious that post-1949, west germany heavily benefited from its border position towards the eastern block
21:14:23 <Eddi|zuHause> the lifting of limitations on german economy by the allies, the formation of the first european economical cooperations, the remilitarisation and nato membership
21:14:40 <Eddi|zuHause> export of german products to the usa
21:15:16 <SmatZ> ah, I misunderstood you
21:15:46 <Eddi|zuHause> all that would probably not have happened like this if the russians and western allies didn't split up
21:15:48 <Vikthor> Eddi|zuHause: But this beggs the question if that is not just because American cars suck .p
21:16:08 <Eddi|zuHause> that is possible ;)
21:16:40 <Eddi|zuHause> but east germany did not have that same opportunity, so the economic upswing there kind of stalled...
21:17:02 <TrueBrain> I think you guys set a record not talking about OpenTTD (timewise) before 0:00 CEST
21:17:08 * SmatZ likes american cars :-p except their gasoline consumption :(
21:17:17 <TrueBrain> (I am not complaining, just noticing)
21:17:19 <SmatZ> TrueBrain: and you broke it! :(
21:17:29 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, you broke it!
21:17:32 <frosch123> SmatZ: you like driving tank-like cars?
21:17:34 <Vikthor> Eddi|zuHause: That's not the problem, they could (and did) export to Russia(just like we did)
21:17:37 * TrueBrain gniffels and runs :)
21:18:04 <Eddi|zuHause> Vikthor: yes, but the inhabitants of the USA had actual money to buy cars
21:18:15 <Eddi|zuHause> all other countries suffered heavily from war damages
21:18:31 <frosch123> wrt. american cars i always think about big cars with low-speed engines
21:18:53 <frosch123> typically busses or pickups
21:19:36 <Eddi|zuHause> all kinds of cars that are too huge to fit into a european (medieval) city
21:19:51 <SmatZ> well, we have dodge... maybe it's some european version, but it can drive well over 180 (kmh)
21:20:09 <SmatZ> actually, it's chrysler now
21:20:13 <Vikthor> Eddi|zuHause: well by the time Germany started producing car exportable to US, most of Europe was more or less recovered
21:20:14 <frosch123> SmatZ: i meant the low frequency sound of the enginge
21:20:50 <Eddi|zuHause> Vikthor: the west german economic upswing is mainly credited to the export of the VW bug
21:20:54 <frosch123> more like a tank :)
21:20:57 <Eddi|zuHause> which is a pre-war design
21:21:20 <frosch123> is it really called vw bug in english? :o
21:21:26 <SmatZ> after weeks of shower, finally a bath :)
21:21:44 <frosch123> after weeks of rain, the flood?
21:21:49 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: not sure, but i think i heard that expression before
21:23:41 <Eddi|zuHause> and yes, east germany exported stuff to russia. but all things actually worth anything were exported to western germany, to get some "hard money"
21:23:54 <Eddi|zuHause> typically way under its actual value...
21:23:56 <Nite_Owl> 1968 Mustang = 1st car I ever owned VW Bug = 2nd car I ever ownd
21:26:21 <Chruker> what happened to the mustang?
21:26:39 <Nite_Owl> I drove it until it died
21:26:39 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: btw. it's all _ln's fault.
21:27:09 <Chruker> how long ago was that?
21:30:53 <frosch123> belugas would be quite happy now
21:32:11 <Rubidium> frosch123: ofcourse he would be :)
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21:43:53 <Nite_Owl> may I ask why he would be happy
21:44:00 <OwenS> Hmm... Shoul I support a ternary operator, and if so, what syntax? :p
21:44:32 <frosch123> he is always happy, when he discovers there is someone older than him who deals with all those children in here :)
21:45:09 <frosch123> OwenS: operator vs. function?
21:45:16 <Rubidium> oh, not the fact that he's on vacation now?
21:45:27 <OwenS> frosch123: operator. Like C's X ? Y : Z
21:46:11 <frosch123> Rubidium: that would have been indicative, not conjunctive
21:46:42 <frosch123> OwenS: or a function like select(x, y, z)
21:46:44 <Nite_Owl> comparatively I am quite ancient but not really that old
21:46:53 <OwenS> frosch123: That always evaluates both arguments
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21:47:48 <frosch123> interesting, I guess that was never an issue with the languages which had such a thing
21:48:30 <frosch123> OwenS: so, is there any other syntax?
21:49:06 <OwenS> frosch123: Python style X if Cond else Z
21:49:39 <frosch123> oh, that looks really broken with the condition in the middle
21:51:58 <OwenS> I notice I follow a different coding style for scripting and non scripting languages
21:52:02 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... so apparently the solution to my bug report about konversation crashing is "we already removed utf16, so remove ucs2 as well"
21:52:24 <OwenS> UTF-16/UCS-2 don't work over IRC anyway
21:52:36 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, and they forgot half of it ;)
21:52:52 <OwenS> In C/C++, I put the opening brace of a function on the next line (Though if() etc blocks it's on the same line), in other languages, I put function braces on the same line
21:53:53 <frosch123> isn't the former caller 'linux style'
21:54:17 <frosch123> and the latter 'java style'
21:54:48 <frosch123> I meant "next line only for functions" (as also for ottd)
21:54:49 <OwenS> But yes Linux follows K&R
21:55:21 <frosch123> why can i then typically choose between k&r and linux?
21:55:43 <Rubidium> because of subtleties?
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22:59:11 <Baffage> Heyguys, how to stop trains from running where they shouldn't? e.g when a train is supposed to turn around at a station, but just continues forward?
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23:05:24 <fjb> Do your settings allow trains to turn around in stations?
23:07:30 <Baffage> I believe so, but I didnt find the setting >.< hang on
23:08:09 <fjb> It is hidden in the difficulty settings.
23:09:17 <Baffage> At end of line, and at stations
23:09:23 <Baffage> shouldn't be a problem, should it?
23:09:37 <fjb> That is ok. When does it not turn around?
23:10:31 <fjb> A train only turns around in a station if the station is in one of the orders.
23:10:44 <Baffage> Yeah, it's in the orders
23:10:53 <Baffage> the route of the train is B - C - D
23:11:15 <Baffage> but when going from D and back through C and B, it runs right through (picks up passengers though) B and continues to A
23:11:18 <Baffage> which is not in the route
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23:13:00 <Baffage> transfer at D if it matters
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23:13:28 <Baffage> then it should turn around at B and go back to D, right?
23:15:08 <fjb> Does the the track layout allow the train to go from B to D without going via A?
23:15:31 <Baffage> only by turning around at B
23:15:47 <Baffage> the problem is that it does, if it wants to go around the whole map
23:16:10 <fjb> Do you get train lost messages?
23:17:37 <Baffage> Not as I recall, I blew up the track on the other side of the station to force it to turn :] but i probably did
23:18:20 <Baffage> It didnt turn before I blew up the track
23:18:42 <fjb> But it did after you cut the track from B to A?
23:19:29 <Baffage> No, then it went straight to A
23:19:45 <Baffage> (which is the whole problem)
23:20:28 <fjb> But when there is no track between B and A anymore it turns around in B as it should?
23:22:29 <fjb> Hm, the pathfinder things that the way via A is cheaper. Red Singnals make a way more xpensive or tight corner s or bridges etc.
23:22:52 <fjb> Can you upload a screenshot of B somewhere?
23:24:10 <Baffage> .. just B or the whole system?
23:25:30 <fjb> Depends how big the whole system is. :-)
23:26:11 <Baffage> It's too big to show ;< I'll make som pointers and stuff :]
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23:35:20 <fjb> Hm, good question. I don't see why it doesn't go.
23:35:31 <OwenS> I don't know what you did to create that overlay text... but it's horrible
23:35:33 <fjb> Maybe you should als at the forum.
23:37:45 <fjb> And using the buildin screenshot feateres gives better results. The signals are a bit difficult to see.
23:38:44 <Rubidium> under the question mark
23:40:52 <Baffage> i see. I'll just try and fail a bit i guess, thanks for the help =9
23:41:08 <fjb> But I have no idea why the train doesn't want to turn around.
23:41:28 <Rubidium> savegame would probably help
23:41:48 <Rubidium> might be the 'turn only at X' difficulty setting
23:41:59 <Rubidium> might be something completely different
23:42:07 <fjb> We try to help everybody who is asking nicely.
23:42:47 <Rubidium> true, but giving the valuable information helps at both sides
23:43:04 <Rubidium> the person asking the question gets a founded answer
23:43:22 <Rubidium> and the rest doesn't get bothered by all the guesses and "oh it's not that"
23:44:14 <fjb> And even if the layout looks simple the question is not that easy to answer.
23:45:16 <Baffage> I probably made some minor mistake or something :p it might even work now
23:46:21 <fjb> You could post a savegame.
23:47:35 <Baffage> seems like the problem fixed itself =D
23:48:03 <Baffage> At least the train turns :]
23:48:49 <fjb> Then you can start to improve the layout now.
23:49:59 <Baffage> I saw that coming :] I guess that'll just be a lot of trying and failing, still quite new to the game
23:50:10 <Baffage> Anything spesific you were thinking about?
23:51:15 <fjb> No, not really. Thinking only about my bed right now.
23:51:39 <fjb> And you will learn more with everything you try.
23:52:11 <fjb> Trying new layouts is part of the fun of this game.
23:55:18 <Baffage> Sure. Once I get the grip of.. uh, everything. :] especially signals
23:56:30 <fjb> You could try the advanced signals. They are much easier to use (in my opinion).
23:57:24 <Baffage> .. how many advanced signals are there?
23:58:21 <Baffage> .. signal and presignal?
23:58:50 <fjb> The advanced signals are close to how signals at the real railways or model railways work.
23:59:38 <Markk> fjb: yeah, old systems, in the 80's many network got ATC and computer based signals
23:59:47 <fjb> No Presignals. Only Signals and Signals which only allow the train to pass in one direction.
continue to next day ⏵
