IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-08-13
⏴ go to previous day
00:00:40 <fjb> Still computer based signals are working like the advanced signals of OpenTTD.
00:01:24 <Baffage> The one-way signal, does it do anything else?
00:03:08 <fjb> The advanced (or PBS) signals have one rule: Only plant a signal there where a waiting train waiting in front of that signal does not disturb other trains.
00:04:05 <fjb> Reading that sentence I really should go to bed.
00:04:40 <Baffage> Yeah, you probably should x)
00:05:07 <Baffage> .. so the signals stop trains from disturbing other trains, is that it?
00:07:38 <fjb> Yes. The signals dive the track into blocks.
00:07:52 <fjb> Only one train is allowed to be in one block.
00:08:31 <fjb> A train waiting on a switch prvents any other train to use that switch.
00:09:01 <fjb> So put advanced signals olny in front of a switchyard and never behind it.
00:09:05 <Baffage> Are there articles on all of this on the wiki?
00:09:41 <fjb> You need signals behind the switchyard with the old signals, but not with the new advanced signals.
00:10:12 <fjb> Yes, look for PBS or YAPP. But they are really easy to use.
00:14:02 <fjb> They are part of the base OpenTTD.
00:14:54 <fjb> They are just the signals surrounded by the red line in that picture.
00:15:38 <Baffage> oh. so.. you only use the path signal and oneway path signal?
00:16:58 <fjb> Yes. And the only difference between those signals is that the oneway path signal does not allow any train to pass it in the opposite direction.
00:20:16 <Baffage> Just to get something straight, a block is any.. unit of railway on any number of squares, right?
00:23:10 <Baffage> For me? I probably shouldn't ask what a block is for you then? :]
00:23:24 *** KenjiE20|LT has joined #openttd
00:28:09 <Baffage> umm, why do I only get one path signal per square and not two? Shouldn't I have one on each side of the railway like with the other signals?
00:28:39 <Baffage> it's not the oneway one
00:29:18 <Baffage> .. it says trains can pass it from behind
00:29:26 <Baffage> .. but t hen they'll just ignore it, right?
00:31:27 <fjb> The Backside of the signal does not count and is ignored.
00:31:48 <Baffage> I don't have a clue about real railways, so that doesn't help me much
00:32:17 <Baffage> I'm going to have trains running in both directions, shouldn't I have signals in both directions then?
00:32:21 <fjb> It wouls be hard to see the lights of the signal from the backside.
00:32:57 <fjb> And the usual traffic lights do also not count if you see the backside. :-)
00:33:30 <Baffage> That's my point, how is that sufficient when I'm going to have trains running in both directions?
00:33:48 <fjb> You should have signals for both directions, but usually not at the same position.
00:34:34 <fjb> Think about the traffic lights at a road crossing.
00:35:28 <fjb> They are always preventing the traffic from entering the crossing. So a traffic light at the exit of the crossing would make no sense.
00:36:35 <Baffage> Good point, I guess :p
00:36:40 <fjb> It would prevent the traffic from leavng the crossing and so block it.
01:00:19 *** Audigex has joined #openttd
01:01:04 <Audigex> anyone who's done much development related stuff around?
01:01:23 <Audigex> just got a quick question about visual studio 08
01:02:56 <Audigex> i noticed that visual studio express 2008, the wiki says only to install the directx august 2007 sdk
01:03:07 <Audigex> but the vse2005 article says to install the current one too
01:03:16 <Audigex> is it an omission in the 2008 article
01:03:24 <glx> only august 2007 works for openttd
01:03:35 <Audigex> so i dont need the current one at all?
01:04:14 <glx> we only use direct music, and that has been removed after august 2007
01:05:07 <glx> vse2005 article just complicates stuff :)
01:05:51 <Audigex> well i just installed the aug07 one "all to hard drive"
01:06:03 <Audigex> what's the point of having 500gb if I have to click checkboxes, eh?
01:06:19 <glx> you could remove docs and samples ;)
01:06:47 <Audigex> for the sake of 20mb or whatever i'll survive
01:06:56 <Audigex> upgrading to 1tb soon anyway - this drive is fecking irritating
01:07:12 <Audigex> and i've got a stack of backups on it anyway
01:07:32 <Audigex> £60 for 1TB, about 50 for 500gb
01:10:26 <Audigex> hmm, so i follow 2008 article for what to do with the openttd-useful stuff?
01:10:35 <Audigex> and specify locations in vc++ rather than copying the folders?
01:10:45 <Markk> Cheapest here i Sweden is 56 quid
01:11:08 <glx> yes extract openttd-useful where you want and point to it in vc++
01:11:19 <glx> easier to update it later
01:11:47 <Audigex> opened the wrong one :)
01:19:13 *** Coco-Banana-Man has quit IRC
01:20:02 *** Coco-Banana-Man has joined #openttd
01:21:09 *** Coco-Banana-Man has quit IRC
01:22:35 <Audigex> "Add the DirectX headers subdirectory through the openttd project properties -> C/C++ -> General -> Additional Include Directories "
01:22:43 <Audigex> where do I find "openttd project properties"
01:22:48 <Audigex> i can't find anything with that name
01:24:13 <Audigex> it doesnt seem to have any c/c++ section though
01:24:16 *** mucht_home has joined #openttd
01:35:33 <glx> Audigex: it's just VC++ properties :)
01:36:16 <Audigex> the problem wass that i was on openttd properties
01:36:22 <Audigex> not openttd release properties
01:36:32 <Audigex> the first only has a name and base path or something
01:36:44 <PeterT> can someone tell me if this is possible
01:36:46 <Audigex> just hit build solution, let's see what happens :)
01:36:53 <PeterT> i download the source code to patch
01:36:56 <Audigex> "anything is possible"
01:37:14 <Audigex> unless you're using java, in which case your hash tables are going to be fucked whatever you do
01:37:16 <PeterT> i patch bilbo's patchpack, and on top of that, i patch upgrade airports for 071
01:37:37 <PeterT> i will try, but is that how you do 2 patches?
01:37:37 <glx> mixing patches requires coding skills
01:37:56 <Audigex> petert - you have to manually fix any clashes
01:38:00 <Audigex> it could just work straight off
01:38:06 <Audigex> but only if they don't touch the same code
01:38:16 <Audigex> if they overlap at any point, you'll have to try to fix it yourself
01:38:38 <Audigex> Build: 2 succeeded, 1 failed, 1 up-to-date, 0 skipped
01:39:31 <Audigex> ..\src\music\dmusic.cpp(16) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'dmksctrl.h': No such file or directory
01:39:42 <Audigex> ..\src\spriteloader\png.cpp(13) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'png.h': No such file or directory
01:39:53 <Audigex> ..\src\saveload\saveload.cpp(1313) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'zlib.h': No such file or directory
01:40:11 <Audigex> ..\src\screenshot.cpp(160) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'png.h': No such file or directory
01:40:27 <Audigex> im trying to see if there's any common denominator
01:40:47 <Audigex> obviously i've missed a step or done part wrong
01:40:54 <Audigex> visual c++ express 2008
01:41:02 <PeterT> ok, i need to download that
01:41:11 <PeterT> seems like everyone uses visual
01:41:27 <Audigex> ..\src\gfx.cpp(262) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'unicode/ubidi.h': No such file or directory
01:41:29 <Audigex> ..\src\fontcache.cpp(22) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'ft2build.h': No such file or directory
01:41:53 <Audigex> zlib, png, ft2build, dmksctrl and unicode/ubidi (.h)
01:42:02 <Audigex> any link between those .h files?
01:42:20 <Audigex> it did this last time i tried to use vse to compile ottd
01:42:25 <Audigex> on a completely different system
01:42:30 <Audigex> so clearly, i'm the one doing something wrong
01:43:13 <PeterT> how much does visual c++ cost?
01:44:15 <PeterT> once i download the source for what im patching, do i just patch it, or do i enter ./configure, then make
01:45:13 <Audigex> the express edition is free
01:45:28 <Audigex> i've never used any of these tools before
01:45:41 <Audigex> PHP, java and visual basic are my repertoire up to now
01:45:58 <Audigex> right, having another go
01:46:20 <PeterT> whats this: $ patch -p0 -i airport-upgrade-v6-0.7.1.patch
01:46:21 <PeterT> can't find file to patch at input line 5
01:46:21 <PeterT> Perhaps you used the wrong -p or --strip option?
01:46:21 <PeterT> The text leading up to this was:
01:46:44 <PeterT> |diff --git a/src/station_cmd.cpp b/src/station_cmd.cpp
01:46:44 <PeterT> |index 563c440..e2eb0e4 100644
01:46:44 <PeterT> |--- a/src/station_cmd.cpp
01:46:44 <PeterT> |+++ b/src/station_cmd.cpp
01:48:16 <PeterT> luckily i ordered a book on c--
01:49:11 <Audigex> okay, i'm down from 9 errors to 8!
01:49:25 <Audigex> at this rate, only 6 hours to go before i'm done
01:49:50 <Audigex> whoever gets their compiler working first, we'll go with that one :)
01:51:12 <PeterT> well, i can compile trunk easily
01:51:31 <PeterT> does visual studio also download source code?
01:59:46 <Audigex> vs won't download itself, but svn does easily enough
02:00:06 <Audigex> right, i think i've hopefully found the problem
02:00:09 <Audigex> this guide isn't very cler
02:00:18 <Audigex> attempting a compile now
02:03:32 <glx> Audigex: you failed to set path correctly in vc++
02:04:13 <Audigex> i've got 2 set for includes and library in both the vc++ options, and the project properties
02:04:32 <Audigex> tools->options->vc++ directories
02:04:37 <glx> [03:41:59] <Audigex> zlib, png, ft2build, dmksctrl and unicode/ubidi (.h) <-- all in openttd-useful except dmksctrl (directx)
02:04:48 <Audigex> dmksctrl has gone now
02:04:59 <Audigex> so it's the openttd-useful, presumably
02:05:59 <PeterT> whats openttd-usefull?
02:06:24 <glx> add openttd essentials\shared\include to includes
02:06:25 <Audigex> hmm, im wondering if i've used the wrong include
02:07:12 <Audigex> right, trying it again
02:07:32 <Audigex> i added the /win32/include/ instead
02:08:01 <Audigex> but thats why, when i went back through the instructions, i was like "done, done, done, done"
02:08:18 <Audigex> "you see what you want to see"
02:08:55 <glx> extra libs needed to build openttd with VC
02:09:17 <PeterT> stuff you need anyway for mingw
02:09:50 <glx> for mingw it's easier, you download the source for these libs, ./configure && make && make install
02:10:25 <Audigex> looks like it's worked
02:10:53 <Audigex> more importantly, this is slow
02:11:00 <Audigex> looks like i need a heftier overclock
02:11:11 <Audigex> what sort of voltage do you reckon a phenom II can take?
02:11:16 <PeterT> glx, yes its very easy for noobs
02:11:39 <glx> if you want to build fast build a debug build, but then it will very slow when playing
02:12:01 <Audigex> i just want to see if it works for now
02:12:08 <Audigex> then have a go at putting together patches i want
02:13:00 <Audigex> programming isn't a problem
02:13:14 <Audigex> but projects are beyond me
02:13:25 <Audigex> i've only ever worked on one-man projects before
02:13:35 <glx> if you can build clean trunk, failures will be due to patches ;)
02:13:39 <Audigex> ========== Build: 3 succeeded, 0 failed, 1 up-to-date, 0 skipped ==========
02:13:48 <Audigex> more woops than jesus on acid
02:14:00 <Audigex> i know it's not actually an achievement, but that was pissing annoying
02:14:26 <Audigex> right, where's my binary :s
02:15:15 <Audigex> why the hell don't they put it in /bin/
02:15:43 <glx> MSVC is picky for that, it puts all outputs files in the same dir
02:16:15 <glx> though it should be possible to put the exe in bin
02:16:28 <Audigex> yarp, bit daft to have to go find it
02:17:50 <Audigex> okay, that'll do for tonight
02:17:56 <Audigex> i'll try applying some patches tomorrow :)
02:39:31 *** reldred1 has joined #openttd
03:13:01 *** TinoDidriksen has joined #openttd
03:43:23 *** TinoDidriksen has joined #openttd
05:28:25 *** reldred1 has joined #openttd
05:34:23 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +o Rubidium
05:34:40 *** Rubidium sets mode: +b *!*@212.62.97.20
05:34:45 *** Rubidium sets mode: +b *!*@212.62.97.23
05:41:40 *** MICHEL--047 has joined #openttd
05:41:40 *** MICHEL--047 has left #openttd
05:42:45 *** MICHEL--047 has joined #openttd
05:42:46 *** MICHEL--047 has left #openttd
05:45:09 *** Rubidium sets mode: +b *!*@118.98.163.66
05:58:02 *** xmakina has joined #openttd
06:07:44 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
06:16:37 *** reldred2 has joined #openttd
06:41:21 *** Progman has joined #openttd
06:57:10 *** Cybertinus has joined #openttd
07:16:49 *** xmakina has joined #openttd
07:32:34 *** Polygon has joined #openttd
07:38:25 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
07:56:26 *** Coco-Banana-Man has joined #openttd
08:02:28 *** Black_Boss has joined #openttd
08:02:28 *** Black_Boss has left #openttd
08:05:48 *** Black_Boss has joined #openttd
08:05:48 *** Black_Boss has left #openttd
08:15:04 *** reldred1 has joined #openttd
08:19:58 *** fonsinchen has joined #openttd
08:31:27 *** xmakina has joined #openttd
08:32:16 *** pavel1269 has joined #openttd
08:46:20 *** xmakina has joined #openttd
08:55:11 *** Chris_Booth has joined #openttd
08:56:35 <fonsinchen> Are those 2 pixels spacing at the left and right border of each window defined somewhere? I'm looking at window_gui.h and there are lots of things defined in WidgetDrawDistances but none of them fits just right.
08:59:21 <Eddi|zuHause> probably you should talk to Alberth
09:02:12 *** Polygon has joined #openttd
09:19:14 *** Dred_furst has joined #openttd
09:19:48 <dihedral> Rubidium, ./configure line 58
09:19:54 <dihedral> return the exit code from rm?
09:21:58 <Rubidium> that's written by TB
09:39:33 *** Polygon has joined #openttd
09:42:09 *** sdafsdf has joined #openttd
09:48:59 *** sdafsdf is now known as LadyHawk
09:57:55 *** Polygon has joined #openttd
10:18:28 <Xaroth> TrueBrain: Any luck yet? or they giving you the silent treatment
10:28:50 <Eddi|zuHause> cdemu is awfully slow...
10:31:13 <SmatZ> I don't know, ask Alberth :)
10:31:18 <SmatZ> but maybe someone else knows too
10:32:08 <Rubidium> it might be that the spacing is something the window does itself (only speculating though)
10:38:44 *** ButuhFreelanceCepat has joined #openttd
10:38:44 *** ButuhFreelanceCepat has left #openttd
10:49:52 <fonsinchen> no, you define the spacing (or rather padding) in the widgets declaration. For example:
10:49:52 <fonsinchen> NWidget(WWT_INSET, COLOUR_BROWN, SM_WIDGET_MAP), SetMinimalSize(346, 140), SetResize(1, 1), SetPadding(2, 2, 2, 2), EndContainer(),
10:49:52 <fonsinchen> This is not nice ...
10:50:38 <Noldo> those Set* functions seem interesting
10:52:13 <fonsinchen> oh, but it seems the smallmap has an extra padding ...
10:52:42 <fonsinchen> as for example the station view window doesn't define a padding there.
10:58:39 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: funny enough, dihedral bought your comment and directed it immediatly to me :)
10:58:43 <TrueBrain> I should remember that reply ;)
11:02:22 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: I don't think EA is that fast :p
11:07:57 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttd
11:11:21 <Eddi|zuHause> gah, i should not do too many internet installations simultaneously...
11:22:25 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: HIDE HIDE HIDE
11:22:49 <TrueBrain> who said that was funny?
11:22:59 <Wikie> TrueBrain, didn't you said you quit OTTD?
11:23:09 <Wikie> like, 2 or more years ago?
11:23:18 <Eddi|zuHause> like, 5 times already :p
11:23:19 <TrueBrain> I press the Exit Game button a lot, yes
11:23:47 <Eddi|zuHause> that's the problem with addictions, there is a high chance to fall back :p
11:24:24 <OwenS> I've heard a guy say that the best way to get his project moving again when everythings going slow is to ragequit. Everyone miraculously starts working much harder :-P
11:27:50 <TrueBrain> dihedral would be very grateful :)
11:28:31 <Wikie> Why did you have to make your own pastebin? xD
11:28:46 <TrueBrain> did he really asked that?
11:28:48 <TrueBrain> or am I seeing things?
11:29:31 * Wikie yells that you can't select the highlighted text without the line numbers.
11:30:01 *** Wikie was kicked by DorpsGek (don't yell in this channel; it is not polite)
11:30:54 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r17163 /trunk/configure: -Fix (r7961): don't return exit value of rm
11:32:13 <Wikie> nobody is serious with /me >.>
11:33:43 <TrueBrain> hi, my name is nobody
11:34:03 <SmatZ> TrueBrain: there are many patches "nobody is going to implement"
11:34:18 <Rubidium> so... how is cargodest going?
11:34:20 <TrueBrain> what did I told you a minute ago? :p
11:35:18 <Rubidium> I should go do some shopping?
11:35:36 <TrueBrain> please do some shopping for me
11:37:46 <Eddi|zuHause> <TrueBrain> hi, my name is nobody <- i like terrence hill ;)
12:07:05 <fonsinchen> those buttons in the main viewport and the smallmap are all 22 pixels in both directions. Is there a reason why you haven't defined that in some central place?
12:12:57 <TrueBrain> because you didn't do that yet? :)
12:13:32 <Rubidium> something with dried grapes going nuts
12:16:09 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: is bread and water enough?
12:16:42 <Rubidium> then come and fetch it ;)
12:17:12 <TrueBrain> almost 7 hours of running
12:17:15 <TrueBrain> but who is complaining
12:17:27 <TrueBrain> 7? I guess even more ..
12:18:54 <dihedral> 7 would be way too fast :-P
12:19:18 <TrueBrain> 38 hours of normal walking
12:19:26 <TrueBrain> so ... 20 hours of non-stop running :p
12:19:26 <Rubidium> marathon takes 2 hours
12:19:32 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 8.71428571429
12:20:26 <TrueBrain> it is a pretty route to walk
12:21:21 <Rubidium> 9 hours is quite optimistic though
12:21:24 * OwenS thinks TrueBrain running here would be more fun. Since he would either have to swim or cheat and take public transport across the channel :P
12:21:49 <Xaroth> He can run to calais, then keep running on the boat while it crosses
12:21:53 <Xaroth> technically not cheating
12:22:04 <TrueBrain> I can also run in the tunnel
12:22:05 <OwenS> Xaroth: Is if the boat moves faster than he can run
12:22:08 <TrueBrain> the maintance tunnel is big enough
12:22:15 <OwenS> TrueBrain: If they let you in ;-)
12:22:21 <Rubidium> @calc 183/42.195*(2 + 4/60)
12:22:21 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 8.96314729233
12:22:30 <OwenS> Also, air pressures quite uncomfortable in the maintainance tunnel
12:22:33 <TrueBrain> OwenS: you should I had to cheat or swim
12:22:34 <Xaroth> OwenS: boats go faster than 6kmph :P
12:22:37 <TrueBrain> clearly, there are other ways :p
12:22:55 <Rubidium> you'd be running just about the world record marathon for the whole 183 km
12:23:15 <TrueBrain> so .. see you soon! :p
12:25:47 <Rubidium> you'd run the marathon in 2h04:30(.59)
12:26:25 <Eddi|zuHause> Xaroth: you need a special license to steer a boat that goes faster than 5km/h
12:26:57 <TrueBrain> not in international waters :)
12:27:12 <OwenS> Is there any international waters in the channel? :p
12:27:24 <Xaroth> Eddi|zuHause: How about the ferry between calais and dover :P
12:27:29 <TrueBrain> were we talking about the channel only? :p
12:27:39 <OwenS> Well I thought you'd be crossing there :p
12:28:02 <TrueBrain> you assume so much :) And that all to just call me a cheater
12:29:49 <Eddi|zuHause> yes! it should be way easier to call TrueBrain a cheater!
12:30:48 <Eddi|zuHause> come on, you enjoy that! :)
12:31:42 <Eddi|zuHause> i have a good news: i found the cable salad that used to be the wireing for the old railway setup!
12:31:54 <Eddi|zuHause> now i can build a DC and an AC circuit
12:32:10 <Eddi|zuHause> (DC is for driving, AC is for controling the equipment)
12:32:11 <TrueBrain> that is indeed very good news :)
12:32:40 <Eddi|zuHause> (equipment = switches, signals)
12:34:28 <Rubidium> no 25 kV for the overhead wires?
12:34:33 <OwenS> Salad? We tend to say Spaghetti
12:34:55 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... it's "Kabelsalat" over here...
12:36:39 * Rubidium envisions two dogs eating wire
12:38:57 <fonsinchen> Smatz, I have made those zoom buttons visibly depress when clicked and I have enumified some constants.
12:40:02 <Rubidium> oh noes... the Viking's going to kill us... :)
12:40:51 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: two dogs?
12:41:27 <Eddi|zuHause> "Wikie der Wikinger"
12:41:47 <Eddi|zuHause> that was a looong time ago
12:42:38 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: I made that joke yesterday too :p
12:42:57 <Rubidium> not that the viking is going to kill us!
12:43:02 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: ah, yes, i know that one... not the first association i'd get :p
12:43:11 <TrueBrain> the reference, sigh .. :p
12:43:13 <Wikie> Rubidium, ahh. My nick isn't related to that.
12:43:14 *** xmakina has joined #openttd
12:44:49 <Eddi|zuHause> but "Wikie the Mad Assassin" doesn't sound that much better either...
12:45:55 <Rubidium> "Wikie the desolate and mad assassin"
12:50:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r17164 /trunk/src/airport_gui.cpp: -Fix: crash when clicking on the spacer in the build airport GUI
13:02:32 <Xaroth> Rubidium: You give him too much credit :P
13:08:43 *** Vikthor has joined #openttd
13:27:01 *** Polygon has joined #openttd
13:40:37 <glx> Ammler: where can I get ottdcoop pack 7.3 ? (as ottdcoop wiki is dead)
13:43:44 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
13:45:36 <Xaroth> glx: there's a 'backup' wiki iirc
13:45:46 <Xaroth> www.openttdcoop.ammler.ch
13:46:55 <planetmaker> and the svn server is on another machine, too
13:47:33 <glx> doesn't help for the packs as the links point to broken wiki :)
14:00:11 <welshdragon> where can i find out what DorpsGek is?
14:00:40 *** manadude2 has joined #openttd
14:00:51 *** manadude2 has left #openttd
14:01:10 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you should just ask him? :p
14:01:31 <welshdragon> DorpsGek: do you use scripts?
14:01:31 <DorpsGek> welshdragon: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command).
14:01:59 <DorpsGek> Also can I add that your question is relative vague?
14:02:18 <welshdragon> DorpsGek: do you use irssi scripts?
14:02:18 <DorpsGek> welshdragon: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command).
14:02:36 <DorpsGek> Please continue this conversation via a PM
14:02:54 <welshdragon> i'll just get errors
14:03:04 *** welshdragon was kicked by DorpsGek (yes)
14:03:07 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd
14:03:27 <welshdragon> Rubidium: stop that
14:04:26 <glx> who said it was Rubidium ?
14:05:04 <welshdragon> as only ops can abuse DorpsGek like that :P
14:05:27 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +o planetmaker
14:05:58 *** DorpsGek sets mode: -o planetmaker
14:06:16 <xmakina> welshdragon: do a whois on DropsGek :P
14:06:37 <welshdragon> username: TrueBrain
14:08:27 <glx> xmakina: doesn't mean he's the only one able to command it
14:08:39 <Rubidium> oh god... are you playing with that stupid bot again?
14:08:43 <TrueBrain> in fact .. nothing means anything .. such a harsh world
14:08:50 *** Chris_Booth_ has joined #openttd
14:09:17 <welshdragon> TrueBrain: i like the translation of DorpsGek: Village Idiot :P
14:09:29 * Rubidium wonders what he's missing; must be a lot
14:09:38 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: a good laugh, that is all :)
14:09:58 <Rubidium> but... my ignore list doesn't list 'laugh' :(
14:10:54 <Rubidium> and for a good laugh I usually read some BOFH
14:11:16 <petern> or refactor bjarni's code
14:11:17 <welshdragon> so, i can't find out what DorpsGek is :(
14:11:31 *** Polygon has joined #openttd
14:11:40 <TrueBrain> welshdragon: that is most likely more related to your lack of asking than to anything else
14:12:00 <welshdragon> TrueBrain: how does DorpsGek work?
14:12:04 <TrueBrain> welshdragon: not so well
14:12:29 <welshdragon> is it a bunch of scripts, or a server based bot?
14:12:58 <TrueBrain> and isn't a bot also a bunch of scripts?
14:13:37 <welshdragon> and isn't a bot also a bunch of scripts? < well, yes, but which ones, and what irc client does it use?
14:13:51 <TrueBrain> have you read what Sacro said, or did you just choise to ignore him?
14:13:58 *** Chris_Booth_ is now known as Chris_Booth
14:14:41 <petern> he might be wrong of course
14:14:51 <TrueBrain> there is always that chance ..
14:15:18 <xmakina> and, tbh, i thought a supybot was just a mis-spell of spybot and he was trying to be funny
14:15:36 <TrueBrain> xmakina: one search-engine query later and you would have known
14:15:56 <xmakina> indeed - but then i don't usually search engine misspelt jokes
14:16:26 <TrueBrain> hmm .. python3 requires a bytestream for send(), but nowhere I can find how to create such stream from a string :p
14:16:36 <petern> y did da chckn x da rd?
14:17:42 <welshdragon> 2 get 2 da uvver side?
14:18:35 <petern> it didn't, it was too busy writing an sms and got run over
14:22:11 <TrueBrain> either way, welshdragon, why would you want to know what DorpsGek is made of?
14:22:37 <welshdragon> as i'd like a DorpsGek type bot for a few of my channels
14:22:47 <TrueBrain> so pick any bot out there
14:23:47 <petern> you might learn something
14:23:58 <welshdragon> 'never do it again"
14:24:26 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17165 /trunk/docs/ (obg_format.txt obs_format.txt): -Update: tweak obs/obg format description slightly
14:36:17 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
14:40:23 <xmakina> it's a shame that Roelmb chap is a total douche - the project he's crashing into the ground sounds kinda interesting
14:41:45 <xmakina> i like the scale of the whole thing and the way it'll be all player managed
14:42:24 *** Pygmalion has joined #openttd
14:43:42 <Xaroth> xmakina: I think I missed something so I have absolutely no clue what yer on about :P
14:47:21 <PeterT> hes from clanmega.warlink.eu
14:47:35 <PeterT> and someone asked him to patch IS and cargodest
14:47:47 <PeterT> so he does the oppposite and asks someone to do it for him
14:48:06 <xmakina> as i said - cool idea for a project but total numpty at the helm
14:51:30 <Xaroth> He's doing it all wrong
14:53:28 <xmakina> but at him, not with him
14:54:07 <Rubidium> it is that moving topics in phpbb is such a hassle, otherwise I might've moved it to another forum
14:55:07 <PeterT> when i was a mod its easy
14:55:16 <PeterT> click moderator control panal
14:55:24 <PeterT> search for the damn topic
14:56:28 <Rubidium> like, where's the "move to spam bin and don't ask me whether I'm sure, just do it"-button?
14:59:59 <PeterT> is it possible to join a server with win palleted grfs, while carrying dos - palleted ones
15:00:48 <PeterT> i thought i read somewhere that it isnt
15:01:12 <Ammler> Rubidium: could someone use the base extra GRFID to detect which base graphics are loaded?
15:01:21 <glx> well every client must use the same newgrf
15:02:06 <Rubidium> and neither are we going to support that
15:02:47 *** Polygon has joined #openttd
15:04:55 <Ammler> hmm, would it make sense to use same ID as the openttd.grf?
15:05:22 <Rubidium> got one based on the palette
15:05:36 <PeterT> where can i download the individual graphics of opengfx?
15:05:46 <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: that used to be problematic in the past when using newgrfs, but now you can use the windows newgrfs and switch palettes
15:06:01 <Ammler> PeterT: read the readme
15:06:19 <PeterT> i read that in older versions it would cause desyncs
15:07:04 <Rubidium> Ammler: but ... reading readmes is for the people who got nothing better to do than annoy others with their already answered questions
15:07:09 <Ammler> nobody cares about old versions.
15:08:08 <Ammler> hmm, maybe we could make youtube move, who someone is reading the readme.
15:08:26 <PeterT> the readme has 5 sections,
15:08:39 <PeterT> installing, reporting bugs, credits
15:09:14 <Ammler> the license should tell you where/how you get the source
15:09:54 <PeterT> OpenTTD is licensed under the GNU General Public License version 2.0.
15:09:54 <PeterT> For more information, see the file 'COPYING'.
15:10:24 <PeterT> im guessing i open 'COPYING' with text ed?
15:10:36 <TrueBrain> of course reading a random README indeed is what Ammler suggested :)
15:11:09 <PeterT> this is the readme of OpenGFX
15:11:57 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i always read the readme of windows media player when i want to know stuff about age of empires
15:14:56 <glx> Ammler: I suggest you use a GRFID starting with 0xFF for opengfx_extra
15:15:20 <petern> STICK IT UP YOUR JOOMPA
15:18:18 <xmakina> get this: on the megaindustrytycoon forums I tell the rolemb fellow: "you have some sound ideas" to which he replied "we never thought off implenting sound"
15:19:40 <PeterT> i have to show you a hillarious topic
15:19:54 <PeterT> the devs probably dont even remember this one
15:23:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure what you are trying to tell us.
15:24:03 <Rubidium> that he has no live?
15:24:19 <TrueBrain> that he is not a funny person?
15:24:47 <PeterT> look at what dalestan said
15:25:12 <PeterT> never mind, he isnt here
15:25:29 * petern ponders doing something fun
15:25:38 <petern> like... i dunno, watching paint dry
15:26:01 <TrueBrain> now that _is_ funny :)
15:26:06 * planetmaker silently falls asleep
15:26:14 <planetmaker> too much fun and laughter, I guess
15:26:29 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i seem to have lost my flash plugin...
15:26:48 <planetmaker> as long as it's not your flesh plug in :-P
15:26:50 <Eddi|zuHause> someone help me search for it?
15:26:53 *** Dreamxtreme has joined #openttd
15:27:20 <Eddi|zuHause> i have difficulties imagining a "flesh plug" getting lost...
15:27:27 <Dreamxtreme> how do i put a map in downloadable content thing
15:27:32 <Eddi|zuHause> except you are a woman
15:27:37 <planetmaker> hehe :-P I don't want to imagine it in detail.
15:27:49 <xmakina> put it in the downloaded_content (or something like that) folder
15:27:49 <Eddi|zuHause> or you want to be
15:28:07 <Rubidium> xmakina: that's not quite what he's asking for
15:28:20 <Rubidium> Dreamxtreme: heightmap (.png) or scenario (.scn) go to content.openttd.org
15:28:36 <Rubidium> you've got to make an account and use the "manager" thingy
15:43:07 <OwenS> "Uncanceled Echo: 2.7 dB Suspicious - check phone filters and alarm" Interesting. I would if it wasn't going away on Monday :p
15:44:08 <Rubidium> OwenS: I see no reason why they can't fix that before then :)
15:44:19 <OwenS> Thats an issue my end :p
15:45:34 <OwenS> And I'm inclined to believe it may be the alarm or the fact that the router is upstairs along ~2.5m of unshielded phone cable along side some power cables :p
15:46:16 <TrueBrain> remind me to break into your whatever on Monday
15:46:33 <TrueBrain> as I have some room it seems :p
15:47:35 <TrueBrain> the irony of what you say: you are told to check your alarm, but you don't as you go away on Monday
15:47:47 <TrueBrain> like you are told your frontdoor doesn't close, but you don't fix it, as you go away
15:47:52 <TrueBrain> understand? No? Too bad.
15:48:08 <OwenS> It means check the alarm's phone connection has an ADSL filter on it :p
15:48:14 <OwenS> And I don't go away on Monday - the ADSL does :p
15:48:43 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
15:49:07 <OwenS> Though it can't be the alarm as ours isn't phone connected :p
15:49:49 <OwenS> Which is probably a good thing with the propensity of furry creatures to set it off
15:50:55 <Eddi|zuHause> you have trouble with tribbles?
15:51:51 <TrueBrain> alarm not phone connected .. good thing as cats can set it off?
15:52:38 <Eddi|zuHause> if cats set off your alarms, you have the wrong alarm set up
15:52:48 <TrueBrain> and it has little to do with phone-connected or not ..
15:54:16 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: They rarely do so now. But if they manage to push a door open? ...
15:56:46 <Eddi|zuHause> if your doors are open, what do you need an alarm for?
15:57:32 <TrueBrain> maybe he considers his cats the alarm
16:05:23 *** xmakina has joined #openttd
16:06:21 <thd> some german speaking people?
16:07:13 <TrueBrain> this is a english only channel, so why not give it a shot in english?
16:07:36 <Westie> because English is too hard
16:08:49 <thd> because my problem is difficult and my english is terrible :)
16:08:57 <TrueBrain> you are doing fine so far
16:09:47 <Belugas> hint : one word at a time. slowly but surely
16:10:02 <Belugas> or go to the german forums...
16:10:29 <thd> ok, I will try it. I have a understanding problem with the signals. If I use one station for two trains with the same route, it works perfekt, but if the route is differtent and I use 4 trains and two stations it doesn't work
16:10:44 <thd> (it takes a little bit to write) :-)
16:11:18 <thd> where can I post some screens?
16:11:34 <TrueBrain> on the forums is mostly the response .. but any image upload thingy will do :p
16:12:04 <Westie> yes, base64 the screenshot
16:12:08 <Westie> and stick it on pastebin!
16:12:22 <TrueBrain> shall we try to help this person, instead of giving insanly stupid suggestions?
16:12:35 <Westie> yeah, use something like imageshack, uploadffs, etc
16:12:35 <TrueBrain> with all those line numbers the base64 will be lost forever :p
16:13:02 <Westie> TrueBrain, look below the paste, there's a form w/o any line numbers :3
16:13:06 <Eddi|zuHause> there's a german forum, btw
16:13:16 * Sacro hunts for the orange book
16:14:28 <Eddi|zuHause> man. #kde is a horribly unresponsive channel...
16:15:14 * Belugas goes back in hibernation
16:16:10 <thd> here you can see what is working
16:16:28 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... something is screwed up... kaffeine does not show videos anymore unless it's in full screen...
16:16:53 <thd> two trains for each station on the right
16:17:20 <thd> but they can only use one stage of the station
16:18:04 <thd> now i want to mix it, so that they can change the stages of the station. But den they don't finde the right way back
16:18:34 <TrueBrain> maglev is one of the worst rail-track, as you can't always see which pieces are built
16:18:51 <TrueBrain> but can you also give an image of where you connected them? (how you think it should be done)
16:19:09 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
16:20:24 <thd> oh, so I can rebuild it with the normal rail if you want.
16:20:41 <TrueBrain> just show us first what you want to do :)
16:22:57 <planetmaker> there's no need to re-build. Just use convert tracks.
16:26:50 *** |Jeroen| has joined #openttd
16:29:37 <TrueBrain> I think you need to read up on how signals work
16:29:46 *** Polygon has joined #openttd
16:29:52 <TrueBrain> there is now a train on the top left tracks, which of course make all the signals you have turn to read
16:31:18 <thd> oh, ok, I see I've forgotten two signals on the screenshot, but if I put it in, it doesn't work anyway
16:31:30 <TrueBrain> your setup is asking for deadlocks, yes
16:31:55 <TrueBrain> you will need more advanced signals. You will need to read about them in order to use them.
16:32:17 <planetmaker> a way better solution would be to have pre-signaled X in front of each station
16:32:23 <TrueBrain> well, I guess with 4 trains it would run :)
16:32:24 <planetmaker> and one-way tracks to and from
16:32:39 <TrueBrain> but yes, PBS would make your life much easier
16:32:54 <TrueBrain> PeterT: are you asking for his age? :s
16:33:10 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
16:33:58 <thd> PeterT, not realy I play it over 2 years, but only for fun, but now I want to use the signals more than normal :)
16:34:26 <PeterT> eddi zuhause's link is pretty good
16:34:58 <keoz> thd : put four more signal on the straight line, to limite the conjunction to a little block
16:35:04 <thd> Eddi|zuHause, thanks for the link I will read it.
16:35:19 <TrueBrain> thd: that shot works, for 4 trains
16:35:21 <Eddi|zuHause> especially the bit about the path signals in openttd
16:35:29 <planetmaker> wow. Two years...
16:35:30 <Eddi|zuHause> they are much easier to handle (imho)
16:35:50 <PeterT> instead of having 1 lane for each triain (deadlocks!), you should have 1 lane going to the destination, then 1 lane coming from the destination
16:35:51 <thd> TrueBrain, but it doesn't the trains lost there right route from time to time
16:37:01 <TrueBrain> I see no reason why not, if there isn't a piece of rail missing. Either way, the link of Eddi|zuHause explains a few things you might find useful.
16:37:24 <thd> PeterT, thats right, that's my old way, but now I want to use two ore more destinations, because of the speedimprofment for the trains
16:37:48 <PeterT> should i show you? or do you understand?
16:37:51 <planetmaker> thd, well. But PeterT's suggestion is still correct.
16:38:06 <planetmaker> it is actually the only way to build a huge network.
16:38:20 <PeterT> type this into the chat "/join #openttdcoop"
16:39:31 * planetmaker is also out-of-cheese :-(
16:39:47 * planetmaker has better error handling, though :-P
16:40:31 <PeterT> best station to use, thd, is called ro-ro, which stands for roll in, roll out
16:43:16 <PeterT> you have "allow 90 degree turns" on, thats why
16:43:26 <PeterT> i am making a screen shot now, just wait
16:44:40 <TrueBrain> thd: CTRL+S makes a screenshot too
16:45:32 <TrueBrain> thd: wasn't that train going to the depot, and that you cut the line to it off?
16:45:38 <planetmaker> thd: mind the difference between T and n in the nicknames ;-)
16:46:16 <PeterT> petern, he wrote your name instead of mine
16:46:42 <thd> no, I cut the way to the depot, because it make more trouble and whitout its easyer to explain
16:47:39 <thd> I've just presst tab once :)
16:50:06 <PeterT> your lucky im doing all this work to teach you roro ;0
16:52:53 <PeterT> welcome, just do me a favor and keep learning
16:53:22 <thd> ok, one question, is it right, in your case it is not importet which train comes in which station? In my case it is importet not to mix the trains of "saalwald west" and "salwald transfer"
16:54:36 <thd> as you can see, two of them are "oil trains" and two are "people trains"
16:56:14 <PeterT> just make sure of this, you understand my screenie
16:57:57 <planetmaker> thd, the trains have orders. they only go to the stations they're ordered to go to - unless you really screw up tracks and/or signaling.
16:58:11 *** Brianetta has joined #openttd
16:59:32 <thd> ok, then I will rebuild this example
16:59:32 <planetmaker> the screeny you just post is... not showing an ingenious solution.
17:00:16 <planetmaker> (and doesn't tell much as both ends of the tracks are "undefined" - e.g. we don't know what follows
17:00:19 <thd> no, that is the working one. but now i will mix the 3 tunnels (at the end there is the station)
17:00:45 <planetmaker> btw: use Ctrl+S in order to make an ingame screenshot.
17:04:58 *** Elton05612 has joined #openttd
17:05:48 <PeterT> they are stored at /OpenTTD
17:06:02 <PeterT> i dont know what it is for linux
17:09:55 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
17:11:15 <PeterT> is there a way of altering where the shared directory is?
17:13:58 <dihedral> find / -type f -name "openttd.cfg"
17:14:07 <dihedral> or use ./openttd -d 9
17:17:56 <thd> PeterT, many thanks for your help. Now I have en example. (and a german docu) :)
17:18:35 <PeterT> dihedral, were you answering my question?
17:18:55 <Ammler> [19:11] <PeterT> is there a way of altering where the shared directory is? <--why should you want that?
17:19:28 <PeterT> will the reason change the answer?
17:19:39 <KenjiE20> reason might provide an answer
17:19:53 <Ammler> now the answer is "read the readme"
17:20:06 <PeterT> because, i have alot of things at Documents, and its getting loaded
17:20:25 <OwenS> Well, if you were using a Unix machine it would be trivial :p
17:20:37 <Ammler> and you don't want those loaded?
17:20:50 <KenjiE20> well, that's the idea of documents
17:21:08 <KenjiE20> its YOUR job to figure what you need there and what not
17:21:13 <Ammler> my openttd needs around 20 secs to load
17:21:28 <glx> Ammler: you have too many grfs ;)
17:22:09 <Ammler> well, maybe less, but it feels like ;-)
17:22:25 <OwenS> For me about 4. Perhaps reduced by the fact I have a RAID array
17:22:43 <OwenS> I mean... I can't imagine Ammler has that many more GRFs than I :p
17:23:16 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
17:24:06 <Ammler> will they loaded, also if I don't enable the blitter?
17:25:03 <Ammler> I might also have redundancy :-)
17:30:08 *** Brianetta has joined #openttd
17:42:33 *** z-MaTRiX has joined #openttd
17:42:35 <KenjiE20> well you wanted a !quit
17:43:58 <KenjiE20> be careful what you wish for
17:44:26 <PeterT> next time when i !quit, kick me from the game
17:45:17 <KenjiE20> to be fair, I did both
17:45:45 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r17166 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files): (log message trimmed)
17:45:45 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:45 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bulgarian - 29 changes by Tvel
17:45:45 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: simplified_chinese - 2 changes by ww9980
17:45:45 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 5 changes by Kwokfu
17:45:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: greek - 146 changes by fumantsu
17:45:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: indonesian - 10 changes by prof
17:47:41 <Wolf01> gah.. WolframAlpha doesn't know what I mean with "remember position of lost objects"
17:48:24 <planetmaker> PeterT, just don't use !quit either :-)
17:48:29 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
17:48:47 <planetmaker> we don't like people "try" our bot's or server's kill commands.
17:50:47 <planetmaker> especially with a history of doing so...
17:56:31 *** Progman has joined #openttd
18:06:20 <Yexo> only 1 day left of my summer job :)
18:06:28 <TrueBrain> time for celebration?
18:17:17 *** Nickman87 has joined #openttd
18:17:50 *** xmakina has joined #openttd
18:23:25 *** Singaporekid has joined #openttd
18:29:09 <trr> Where do I download opponents from?
18:29:14 *** Alberth has joined #openttd
18:29:28 <xmakina> click Check Online Content
18:29:33 <TrueBrain> in the game, press Download Content or what is it called
18:30:39 <trr> do I need to go to the URL?
18:55:51 *** voker57 has joined #openttd
19:02:25 *** Nite_Owl has joined #openttd
19:02:50 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v Rubidium
19:13:52 *** Hirundo has joined #openttd
19:22:16 *** PeteT is now known as PeterT
19:24:22 <PeterT> is cin.get(); used in Openttd coding?
19:24:40 <TrueBrain> the questions get more and more amuzing
19:25:22 *** Hirundo has joined #openttd
19:25:46 * Rubidium is so happy he misses said questions
19:26:01 <Rubidium> no need to worry about the stupidity of them
19:26:18 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: but you miss the laugh in it :)
19:26:28 *** Ammler is now known as Guest9
19:26:45 <TrueBrain> PeterT: if you want to know, search for it in the code; seems obvious, not?
19:27:10 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: you ARE aware that Windows' search in text files 'feature' doesn't work AT all
19:27:25 <Xaroth> Rubidium: so? it'd be a challenge :)
19:27:27 <PeterT> is it possible to search through .cpp?
19:27:37 <Xaroth> PeterT: It's plaintext...
19:27:47 <Xaroth> open it up in notepad, wordpad or whateverpad
19:28:37 <KenjiE20> or if you want to be sagriligous windows -> search inside
19:28:46 <KenjiE20> (yes I know that's spelt wrong)
19:29:03 <Alberth> or convert to Word files first, then search :p
19:29:23 <PeterT> but its not possible to search through all at once with vc++
19:29:40 <Yexo> PeterT: yes, that's possible
19:29:53 <Alberth> PeterT: no idea, never use the stuff
19:30:00 <PeterT> how do i open all of the .cpp at once, then search em?
19:30:02 *** Guest9 is now known as Ammler
19:30:03 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: the lack of his computer should not effect his lack of searching
19:30:03 <Yexo> open the search box ,and there is a nice little dropdown
19:30:10 <Yexo> you don't have to open them all
19:30:31 <glx> Alberth: word is illegal in the US :)
19:30:37 <Yexo> or use the ctrl+shift+f shortcut
19:31:35 *** Chris_Booth has joined #openttd
19:31:37 <TrueBrain> glx: not something to be all to happy about .. as most applications should not be sold by that same ruling :(
19:32:15 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: if you've searched hundreds of times and it never found what you were looking for a quite powerful precedent has been set that next searching will result in nothing
19:32:18 *** Hirundo is now known as Swallow
19:32:23 <glx> it's just a proof that software patents are silly
19:32:46 *** Swallow is now known as Hirundo
19:32:50 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: so? He never tried, so that argument is (not yet) valid for him :p
19:32:55 <Rubidium> as a the bad result it's questionable whether it should be called lazy if you know it's not going to find it
19:33:09 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: it keeps him busy :p
19:33:18 <PeterT> i've already made my own program that says "hello world!" then gives you the answer to 15+17
19:34:28 <Rubidium> glx: it's just proof that MS hasn't bought/bribed enough companies ;)
19:37:15 <Ammler> German translators, what is the German word for "Steak"
19:38:06 <PeterT> your from switzerland, aren't you?
19:38:32 <PeterT> dont you speak german?
19:39:22 *** LordAzamath has joined #openttd
19:40:15 <PeterT> nope, openttd doesnt use cin.get(); in any .cpp files
19:40:32 *** oskari89 has joined #openttd
19:41:42 <TrueBrain> so there you have your answer :)
19:42:42 <PeterT> cin.get(); really wouldnt be useful in a game program, would it?
19:43:34 <TrueBrain> in a graphical application it would be one of the most silliest things to have
19:44:11 <Nite_Owl> according to the online translators "steak" is "steak"
19:45:38 <Ammler> Nite_Owl: that is why asked, there seems to be no translation
19:45:46 * Rubidium wonders why openttdcoop did go underground ;)
19:46:07 <Ammler> it is a bit mirrored: www.openttdcoop.ammler.ch
19:46:26 <PeterT> truebrain, yes i figured that out now
19:46:33 <PeterT> why doesnt this code work? int x;
19:46:45 <Rubidium> with all hard links to www.openttdcoop.org
19:46:52 <TrueBrain> I think yuo have mistaken us for #c or whatever
19:47:07 <Ammler> Rubidium: that is the meaning of "bit" ;-)
19:47:20 <Ammler> well, the wiki seems working well
19:47:43 *** fonsinchen has joined #openttd
19:47:48 <PeterT> i dont have permission to access / on this server?
19:47:59 <Ammler> we banned you from there
19:48:17 <Rubidium> Ammler: the usually steel part of a bridle inserted in the mouth of a horse ?
19:49:25 <Rubidium> as one of my teachers would say: "it isn't documented so the compiler doesn't understand it"
19:49:51 <R0b0t1> Methinks reading from standard out would cause problems.
19:51:32 <Alberth> it is surprising how long it takes before you find that problem :p
19:51:44 <PeterT> ammler, you can ban people from openttdcoop?
19:52:12 <Ammler> well, it seems to work with you.
19:52:21 <PeterT> petern, i figured out the problem
19:53:23 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
19:54:31 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17167 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Fix: don't resize the 'base grf status' text part in the game options window when there is no base graphics set that misses files.
19:54:58 <LordAzamath> which file contains the detailed performance rating GUI?
19:55:16 <Rubidium> the one with the graphs I think
19:55:26 <LordAzamath> okey.. where are graphs :D
19:55:33 <LordAzamath> been searching for a while
19:55:53 <Rubidium> make an educated guess in which file the guis of the graphs would be put ;)
19:55:53 <LordAzamath> having near zero knowledge of c++ doesn't help though :D
19:56:13 <petern> nobody is born with c++ knowledge
19:59:57 <Rubidium> born with C++ knowledge? You must be mistaking me with some hypothetical other entity
20:02:36 <PeterT> what OS do you use ammler?
20:02:41 <LordAzamath> What's different there? :P
20:03:04 <LordAzamath> KDE is Desktop Environment, not OS
20:03:39 <Ammler> but PeterT was interested in the window, I assumed.
20:04:13 <LordAzamath> Assuming you can change the themes, you would have had to supply the theme you're using :D
20:04:20 <PeterT> so KDE isnt an OS, its something i could apply right on top of windows?
20:04:47 <KenjiE20> but it crashes lots on win
20:04:58 <Eddi|zuHause> you can install KDE on windows, but it is not very stable
20:05:08 <PeterT> im not gonna get linux unless i get a faster computer
20:05:14 <Ammler> ttdpatch needs around double the time to start
20:05:17 <Rubidium> is it more stable than explorer though?
20:05:17 <KenjiE20> linux runs on 486's man
20:05:32 <PeterT> what C++ enviorment do devs use?
20:05:35 <OwenS> Unless you get a faster computer? Wha? Linux is in general much faster than Windows
20:05:48 <LordAzamath> especially faster than vista :P
20:06:10 <fonsinchen> there is also eclipse
20:06:11 <PeterT> which is better emacs or gvim + g++
20:06:22 <LordAzamath> but Ammler, was it just a screenshot of the letters being coded or did you change anything too?
20:06:23 <andythenorth> run away run away run away
20:06:25 <keoz> PeterT : that's all the question
20:06:40 <Alberth> PeterT: opinions differ :)
20:06:52 <OwenS> glx: They could use LLVM-G++, LLVM-CLang, SunCC, TinyCC or IntelCC instead :p
20:07:11 *** Polygon has joined #openttd
20:07:39 <KenjiE20> heh I remember when I first got patch
20:07:39 <Ammler> LordAzamath: foobar added those, I guess, he used your draft without changes
20:07:46 <Eddi|zuHause> then you are certainly in the right place here, PeterT
20:08:02 <KenjiE20> the truck kept dyingon the intro screen
20:08:10 <LordAzamath> it seems O needs tweaking
20:08:22 <LordAzamath> it has lighter highlight on both sides in top-right corner
20:08:45 <Ammler> something in my patch conifg is wrong, there is no monorail
20:09:04 <LordAzamath> I think it was called that
20:09:21 <LordAzamath> haven't touched ttdp in ages
20:09:51 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd
20:10:18 <PeterT> can a variable in C++ hold numbers like 3.14^4?
20:10:42 <Eddi|zuHause> no. there are only variables that can hold text.
20:10:44 <Tefad> symbolically? not if it is a numerical type like double float int...
20:10:53 <Tefad> and ^ isn't the exponent operator
20:11:16 <TrueBrain> how is 3.14^4 a NUMBER?
20:11:20 <TrueBrain> it is a mathemetical operation
20:11:34 <OwenS> TrueBrain: Actually it's a bitwise operation :p
20:11:44 <TrueBrain> OwenS: haha, fair enough :)
20:11:59 <TrueBrain> I was thinking in his world .. even there it didn't make sense :p
20:12:00 <Tefad> you can store 97.21171216 to a float or double
20:12:09 <Eddi|zuHause> how is a bitwise operation not mathematical?
20:12:14 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 97.21171216
20:12:28 <DorpsGek> OwenS: Error: 'xor' is not a defined function.
20:12:30 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: logical operation is more common used :p
20:12:30 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not an _arithmetical_ operation
20:12:42 <Tefad> binary logic for the win
20:12:43 <Eddi|zuHause> but that does not make it less mathematical
20:12:52 <Tefad> void LoadUnloadVehicle(Vehicle*, int*): Assertion `v->load_unload_time_rem != 0' failed.
20:12:55 <DorpsGek> PeterT: Error: unexpected EOF while parsing (<string>, line 1)
20:12:55 <Tefad> how the hell does this happen
20:13:04 *** Elton05423 has joined #openttd
20:13:08 <DorpsGek> OwenS: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
20:13:20 <OwenS> Whats BC's xor oprtator/function? :p
20:13:45 <DorpsGek> Tefad: 3.14159265359
20:13:45 <Ammler> LordAzamath: that is something else.
20:14:10 <LordAzamath> well it merges maglev and monorail iirc
20:15:13 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Error: 'a' is not a defined function.
20:15:17 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Error: 'a' is not a defined function.
20:15:22 <Ammler> but issue was, it replaced monorail with erail
20:15:44 <Tefad> if it is, i'd like to know what version... imaginary numbers are interesting
20:16:09 <TrueBrain> why can't I remember these things :(
20:17:34 <PeterT> damn, char is used alot
20:18:22 <LordAzamath> who play cooperative games
20:18:27 <PeterT> i think this is a good tutorial for me "C++ Tutorial - Absolute n00b spoonfeed"
20:18:47 <LordAzamath> Ammler, what's openttdcoop :P
20:18:55 <Alberth> TrueBrain: good night
20:19:29 *** Antigon has joined #openttd
20:19:47 <Ammler> oh, indeed, you too :-)
20:19:52 <TrueBrain> @kban PeterT 3600 lets avoid that confusion for a while
20:19:52 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +b *!~Peter@c-76-19-209-23.hsd1.ma.comcast.net
20:19:53 *** PeterT was kicked by DorpsGek (lets avoid that confusion for a while)
20:19:54 <LordAzamath> peeter, peeter, termomeeter
20:20:04 <TrueBrain> as a good night gift to you all :)
20:20:16 * KenjiE20 hands TrueBrain a beer
20:20:44 <frosch123> [22:14] <Tefad> void LoadUnloadVehicle(Vehicle*, int*): Assertion `v->load_unload_time_rem != 0' failed <- last time it was pbs messing up with gradual loading or so
20:20:54 <Tefad> frosch123: sounds right..
20:21:08 <Tefad> this is with r-lastnight
20:21:17 <Tefad> not sure i'd be able to reproduce it
20:22:11 <SmatZ> hmm how big would be core dump for OTTD? I guess several tens of megabytes :(
20:22:37 <Tefad> some of these ottdcoop games.. whew
20:22:47 <OwenS> The game the other week with 1000 trains? :p
20:23:20 <Rubidium> might it be michi's pbs stuff of a few days ago?
20:24:18 <Tefad> RVs are quite fun at times.. stop selection within a station is still kind of braindead though.
20:24:46 <Rubidium> hmm, unlikely; it's caught in MarkTrainAsStuck
20:25:01 <Tefad> i guess i could play without queuing indefinitely or whatever the option is called
20:33:51 * dihedral wonders if that would highlight :-P
20:33:56 <SmatZ> now that wasn't nice :)
20:34:01 <Tefad> .... i could iterate once more with s/St/F
20:34:12 <dihedral> "screw you that was funny"
20:34:14 * LordAzamath highlights dihedral
20:34:38 <dihedral> what Tefad was not nice
20:34:46 <dihedral> but perhaps he likes that
20:44:13 *** ^Spike^ has joined #openttd
20:58:57 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
20:59:58 *** xmakina has joined #openttd
21:03:25 <LordAzamath> Does anyone have savegames/screenshots of toyland headquarters all levels
21:04:04 *** BaronChaos has joined #openttd
21:04:41 <Yexo> no idea if it works, but if you have savegames in another climate, does the climate change cheat change the headquarter graphics?
21:05:14 <LordAzamath> I'm constructing them from trgtr.pcx atm
21:16:56 <fonsinchen> I don't know if there is a way to create that situation with trunk, but when both a transfer and a final delivery are carried out in one unloading session, the payment indicator is wrong.
21:17:18 <fonsinchen> I have a patch fixing that. Is that considered interesting?
21:18:52 <SmatZ> behaviour of 0.7.2 and trunk wrt. unloading should be the same
21:18:56 <Rubidium> you can't do transfer and final delivery at the same time
21:19:05 <SmatZ> but I don't understand your point
21:19:52 *** DorpsGek sets mode: -b *!~Peter@c-76-19-209-23.hsd1.ma.comcast.net
21:20:10 <fonsinchen> with cargodist it is possible to transfer some goods and deliver others at the same time.
21:20:25 <fonsinchen> Then the whole sum is shown as profit, though some of it is transfer
21:20:38 <SmatZ> looks like cargodist bug :-p
21:20:50 <glx> last time I checked cargodist was not in trunk ;)
21:21:08 <fonsinchen> OK, I understand. Not interesting then ...
21:22:08 <fonsinchen> no, that's OK. I'm not expecting to get cargodist into trunk anytime soon.
21:22:35 <fonsinchen> I'm just trying to get things into trunk that are interesting for all of us.
21:22:50 <Eddi|zuHause> fonsinchen: afair, cargodest modified the animation to show both income and transfer simultaneously
21:23:03 <fonsinchen> I have a patch that does the same
21:23:22 *** Brianetta has joined #openttd
21:24:06 <fonsinchen> The question was more like: should I create a bug report and a forum thread and answer all stupid questions associated with that or is it unnecessary
21:25:16 <Eddi|zuHause> imho, the income animation should show the actual money earned (i.e. the sum of all transfers) for the final delivery, and transfer the partial income of the last leg
21:26:08 <Eddi|zuHause> and transfer skipped if both values are equal
21:26:25 <fonsinchen> Ah, no. I won't change the meaning of income and transfer. I just want them both displayed as usual.
21:27:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm just saying that the cargodest way was not optimal
21:29:01 <Eddi|zuHause> also a non-optimal part of cargodest was the transfer credit calculation. when the destination is known, the transfer credit can be better estimated, to prevent the last leg of a transfer appear as a loss
21:29:57 <fonsinchen> All this, however, is a trunk bug. ;) Cargod[ei]st just amplifies the problem.
21:31:05 <fonsinchen> and with cargodist the final destination isn't known at any station in between.
21:31:24 <fonsinchen> so, the estimation problem doesn't get much easier.
21:33:25 *** andythenorth has left #openttd
21:36:25 <Eddi|zuHause> i have not used cargodist yet. do you not decide a destination on creating a cargopacket?
21:38:30 <fonsinchen> no, I have a flow mapping at each station. When a cargo packet arrives at a station it is assigned to the most undersupplied flow for its origin.
21:39:26 <fonsinchen> This makes it much easier to map the result of the MCF solver to packet routing.
21:40:11 <Eddi|zuHause> so on creating a cargopacket you say "just go in this general direction, we'll see about that later"?
21:41:48 <fonsinchen> on creating a cargo packet I set its source station and then I have a look at the flows at the station it is created
21:42:09 <fonsinchen> for each flow there is a "planned" and a "sent" number
21:42:29 <fonsinchen> the flow with the greatest difference is selected and the packet is sent that way
21:42:42 <fonsinchen> then the "sent" value of that flow is increased accordingly
21:43:44 <fonsinchen> a flow only shows the next hop. It may branch there.
21:48:40 <Eddi|zuHause> one problem i had with cargodest was that the pathfinder could not differentiate between stations where the packet must switch vehicles and stations where it could stay in the vehicle. so when a packet went from A to E with a tram 1: A-B-C-D-E, and tram 2 went F-B-D-G, it would not stay in the tram 1, but leave tram 1 at B, get into tram 2 going B-D, leave there, and enter tram 1 again
21:48:49 <Eddi|zuHause> do you have a solution for this?
21:50:14 <Brianetta> I believe that, technically, all the cargo gets off the vehicle at every stop, and looks for the best route. If the best route is onthe vehicle it just got off, it gets back on.
21:50:32 <Brianetta> Behaving like that, of course, there's no real solution.
21:50:33 <fonsinchen> yes, I have a solution
21:51:09 <fonsinchen> the next hop is determined the moment the cargo arrives at the station. If next_hop == vehicle_next_hop the cargo stays on board
21:51:37 <fonsinchen> The only problem are nondeterministic orders, but I don't think it's necessary to spell out all those cases now.
21:52:40 <Eddi|zuHause> no, that is not what i meant...
21:53:20 <fonsinchen> so to say it short: int your case with A-B-C-D-E the cargo wouldn't leave the tram.
21:53:32 <Eddi|zuHause> because the cargodest-pathfinder considers only stops, not routes, the cargopacket thinks the shortest route is A-B [via tram 1], B-D [via tram 2], D-E [via tram 1]
21:53:48 <Eddi|zuHause> while the actual fastest route is A-B-C-D-E [via tram 1]
21:54:08 <fonsinchen> But cargodist does load balancing
21:54:28 <Brianetta> load balancing solves a different problem
21:54:33 <fonsinchen> so it will measure both the ABCDE and the ABDE routes and assign planned flow to them.
21:54:50 <Brianetta> ABDE shouldn't even be a route
21:55:01 <Chris_Booth> cant you get the cargo to try and find its destination the the orger list
21:55:17 <fonsinchen> it is: tram 1: AB tram 2: BD, tram 1: DE
21:55:19 <Chris_Booth> if it is in teh orderlist stay on the vehcile?
21:55:19 <Eddi|zuHause> ABDE should be a route, but the pathfinder should heavily penalise leaving the vehicle
21:55:26 <Brianetta> Chris_Booth: That would be too sensible.
21:55:55 <Eddi|zuHause> Chris_Booth: we tried that, but it opened different problems
21:55:55 <Chris_Booth> why not just use a switch statement?
21:56:15 <Chris_Booth> if destion is in list stay on train
21:56:25 <Chris_Booth> if not look for shortest route
21:56:47 <Eddi|zuHause> because you don't know at which train you WILL be, it creates suboptimal routes
21:56:52 <Chris_Booth> case 1) to case x)
21:56:58 <fonsinchen> why should I. It complicates things unnecessarily. As it is now both routes are used up to their capacity.
21:57:15 <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. extend the above scenario by a train going E-X-A, and a passenger at D wanting to go to A
21:57:46 <Chris_Booth> well passenger should want to get off at e
21:57:52 <Eddi|zuHause> it will first choose the path D-E [tram 1]; E-X [train]; X-A [train]
21:57:54 <Chris_Booth> from e i mean a d
21:58:07 <Eddi|zuHause> but once it is in tram 1, it will notice that A is in the destination
21:58:16 <fonsinchen> Are you talking about cargodist or cargodest and who of you have actually tried cargodist?
21:58:18 <Eddi|zuHause> so it will go D-E-D-C-B-A [tram 1]
21:59:20 <Eddi|zuHause> and that is not an optimal route
21:59:36 <Chris_Booth> you could have if route contains A
21:59:47 <Chris_Booth> and doesnt have any repeat visit
22:00:07 <Eddi|zuHause> you don't know the vehicle in advance
22:00:26 <Eddi|zuHause> there could be a tram 3 going G-D-E
22:00:44 <Eddi|zuHause> then the original route would be chosen randomly, depending on which tram comes first
22:00:48 *** Antigon has joined #openttd
22:00:49 <Chris_Booth> the station know the routes to next stop
22:01:09 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but the same route can be serviced by multiple vehicles
22:01:11 *** Antigon has joined #openttd
22:02:10 <Chris_Booth> see i always think the route maping in cardgo dist/dest is wrong
22:02:14 <Eddi|zuHause> this "just stay on the vehicle" rule is of the same quality as the "fix" to transfers saying "just don't load cargo that came from a station in the order list"
22:02:22 <Chris_Booth> i think it should be like the london underground map
22:02:50 <Eddi|zuHause> Chris_Booth: feel free to create a graph like that automatically
22:03:29 <Chris_Booth> ok in openttd its not going to be easy
22:03:31 <Eddi|zuHause> Chris_Booth: it should be fairly trivial to replace the route network of cargodest
22:03:54 <Eddi|zuHause> the problem is getting the right algorithm, and doing proper pathfinding on that graph
22:04:07 <fonsinchen> What you are talking about is a multi commodity flow problem with some added constraints
22:04:22 <Chris_Booth> what about a YAPF sytle algo to look at the graph?
22:04:22 <fonsinchen> I think I can identify roughly the following:
22:04:34 <Chris_Booth> e.g look upto 10 stops ahead to find the wuickest route?
22:04:40 <fonsinchen> 1. switch vehicle as rarely as possible
22:04:48 <fonsinchen> 2. london underground like
22:05:34 <fonsinchen> It will be hard to solve that without 1. actually talking about multi commodity flow problems 2. formulating the additional constraints in some mathematical way
22:06:41 <fonsinchen> And no, you can't solve a multi commodity flow problem with path finding. It won't work.
22:06:44 <Eddi|zuHause> the main problem of line-based instead of hop-based pathfinding is to know which vehicle will come first
22:07:12 <Chris_Booth> well you could have a wait function
22:07:22 <Chris_Booth> wait for train in this list
22:07:27 <Eddi|zuHause> so the entire network must be timetabled, which is an impossible constraint
22:07:49 <Chris_Booth> if you group trains
22:07:56 <Chris_Booth> then you know where they go
22:08:04 <Chris_Booth> so train with proper shared orders
22:08:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i just told you, it isn't enough to know where they go
22:08:26 <Eddi|zuHause> you have to know WHEN they go there, to find the quickest route
22:08:30 <fonsinchen> well, good luck. And good night.
22:09:21 *** nickman87 has joined #openttd
22:09:54 <Chris_Booth> but lets say there are to route for a - d, route 1 which arrives frist travels a , b, c. the train the stops and you transfer to a train from c to d.
22:10:11 <Chris_Booth> while route 2 which is behing goes direct from a - d
22:10:38 <Chris_Booth> but will arrive first
22:17:02 <Yexo> Chris_Booth: "going direct from a - d" doesn't tell you anything, the speed of the train is important, but also the length of the track it'll take
22:17:07 <Yexo> you can't predict that anyway
22:43:07 *** reldred1 has joined #openttd
22:52:47 *** ^Spike^ is now known as ^spike^
23:17:40 *** Antigon has joined #openttd
23:33:17 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
23:45:47 *** TT1a1a1 has joined #openttd
23:46:16 <TT1a1a1> guys, whats the option or console command for stopping trains disappear after a certain amount of time?
23:48:32 <R0b0t1> In advanced options, under vehicles, I think there's an option that sounds like "vehicles never become obsolete"
23:50:20 <TT1a1a1> Vehicles never expire?
23:51:16 <Eddi|zuHause> use "resetengines" to get back vehicles that have already disappeared
23:53:15 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... this is weird... i installed kmail/kde4 and copied over the messages and settings from kmail/kde3. it copied the messages, the filters, the receiving pop3 account
23:53:24 <Eddi|zuHause> but it did not copy the sending pop3 account...
23:56:28 <Rubidium> kde's way of decreasing the signal to noise ratio of global email traffic?
continue to next day ⏵
