IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-08-11
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00:00:07 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
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00:56:06 <Zuu> Is it only me or is there currently a problem with binaries.openttd.org? Guess I have to be patient and wait.
00:57:22 <Rubidium> seems to work for me
01:01:09 <Markk> Is the openttd-servers kinda unstable for the moment?
01:01:45 <Rubidium> glx: guess the index update script failed; reran it and it works again
01:02:40 <Rubidium> Markk: what do you mean by that?
01:03:02 <Markk> Rubidium: tried to DL 0.7.2, but it really slow
01:03:06 <Zuu> Viewing the pages work for me, but downloading don't work. It first gets nothing for quite a while and then a few bytes and then stops downloading resulting in a small 15-16 kB file.
01:03:20 <Zuu> downloading zip-files etc.
01:03:39 <Markk> Sourseforge has the files though
01:04:31 <Rubidium> don't see any reason why downloading wouldn't work
01:04:55 <Markk> It's working, but it's really slow
01:05:13 <glx> hmm unless firefox cache fails again
01:05:23 <Markk> It's working from other sites
01:06:27 <Zuu> Markk, but SF only got stable releases right?
01:09:26 <Zuu> Now I will be able to test your last work on sound sets :-)
01:10:27 <Rubidium> Akoz: maybe flyspray works again too
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01:18:05 <Zuu> Rubidium: Not sure if there is any thing in particular to test with your last work with sound sets. But at least I can confirm that the opensfx-nightly.tar works, and I did rename my sample.cat to _sample.cat before I started OpenTTD.
01:22:03 <Rubidium> yup, there's not much to test beyond: hey, I've got different sounds and it isn't whining about a missing sample.cat
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01:25:14 <Zuu> Yea, its good work from your side. I have no idea about how much work was required, but with what you did I guess it is quite straight forward to get the sound replacement done. It "only" need "someone" to make the missing sounds. ;-)
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08:12:58 <planetmaker> I have to say... an OpenTTD with only Open?FX content is nice :-)
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09:23:14 <Noldo> planetmaker: there are some sounds already?
09:23:37 <planetmaker> everything which Rubi gathered.
09:24:20 <planetmaker> but I heard the rumour that Noldo wants to gather or compose the remaining 58% :-)
09:25:28 <Noldo> don't belive everything you make up :)
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09:29:57 <dihedral> pm, Rubidium: the orudge set of sounds?
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09:57:40 <Rubidium> #I say high, you say low
09:59:51 <planetmaker> #hell low is quite high?
10:02:51 * Rubidium likes google maps' way of driving by car
10:03:11 <TrueBrain> I don't like those weirdoes who drive the car for google maps (the 3d thingy)
10:03:15 <TrueBrain> they drive ... very rude
10:03:17 <planetmaker> it's good to be not alone in that state of mind :-P
10:03:35 <Rubidium> Kayak across the Pacific Ocean <- how do I do that with a car?
10:03:48 <TrueBrain> you know those things? :p
10:04:35 <Rubidium> but a boat isn't a kayak
10:07:15 <Rubidium> walking from Sydney NS to Sydney NSW only takes 224 days
10:08:21 <Rubidium> going via Belugas only takes a slight 30 hours more
10:11:10 <TrueBrain> a few days ago I calculated the distances to all my roommates (From and to them)
10:11:20 <TrueBrain> walking to one took just a few days :p
10:11:42 <TrueBrain> somehow nobody felt like joining me :(
10:11:49 <Rubidium> oh, the route goes past Tokyo's Imperial Palace :)
10:12:48 <Rubidium> and going past the old one in Kyoto only takes 2 hours extra
10:14:46 <TrueBrain> hmm .. when I resume my emu, the colours are lost
10:14:48 <Rubidium> going past Himeji castle and Hiroshima's Atomic Bomb Dome costs no extra time at all :)
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10:16:25 * Rubidium wonders why the route also goes through Nagasaki
10:16:52 <TrueBrain> I think you should go work by Google :p
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11:28:40 <LordAzamath> in desert for city growth, does it matter how much food & water is delivered or it just checks if they are delivered to a town?
12:08:56 <planetmaker> !rcon set allow_towns_road 0
12:09:00 <planetmaker> !rcon set allow_towns_road
12:09:10 <planetmaker> !rcon set allow_town_road
12:09:14 <TrueBrain> @kick planetmaker wrong channel
12:09:14 *** planetmaker was kicked by DorpsGek (wrong channel)
12:09:21 <TrueBrain> glx: fix your script :p
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12:09:36 <planetmaker> you're slow, TrueBrain ;-)
12:09:42 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: no, glx is broken :)
12:09:52 <TrueBrain> @kick planetmaker preventive kick?
12:09:52 *** planetmaker was kicked by DorpsGek (preventive kick?)
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12:10:09 <TrueBrain> next time I was VERY fast :p
12:10:29 <TrueBrain> (hihi, bad joke, sorry :))
12:11:36 <planetmaker> :-) Now rcon is also in the list? :-)
12:11:48 <Rubidium> planetmaker: try it!
12:11:58 *** planetmaker was kicked by DorpsGek (Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.)
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12:12:46 <TrueBrain> @kban pavel1269 60 we kick you too, no worries
12:12:46 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +b *!~quassel@r2ao16.net.upc.cz
12:12:47 *** pavel1269 was kicked by DorpsGek (we kick you too, no worries)
12:13:12 <glx> [14:12:05] <DorpsGek> Error: I cowardly refuse to kick myself. <-- lol
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12:16:34 <TrueBrain> free kicks for everyone!
12:18:16 <LordAzamath> did I hear FREEE? I want some too
12:18:30 *** LordAzamath was kicked by DorpsGek (no problem)
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12:18:47 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +b *!~rightwing@82.131.16.156.cable.starman.ee
12:18:48 *** LordAzamath was kicked by DorpsGek (you have auto-rejoin? You get extra long time)
12:19:47 *** DorpsGek sets mode: -b *!~rightwing@82.131.16.156.cable.starman.ee
12:39:56 <planetmaker> somehow that reminds me of petert. He was so nice to use @kbanme without time limitation in our channel :-P
12:40:18 <planetmaker> oh what did the whining start right then when he realized what he did.
12:40:46 <planetmaker> dunno exactly anymore. Are you in #openttdcoop?
12:41:03 <planetmaker> he, right. The quotes :-D
12:41:35 <Rubidium> oh, @kickme and @kickban me sounds like a good feature
12:41:58 <planetmaker> very good ones, yes
12:42:00 <TrueBrain> I wonder if DorpsGek knows them :p
12:42:09 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: it could. It's the same bot type
12:42:21 <TrueBrain> yeah, but they have to be installed ..
12:42:39 <KenjiE20> hmm, must be in that 2006 plugin zip
12:45:36 <Eddi|zuHause> hey, that reminds me of the suicide boxes in futurama ;)
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12:53:17 <TrueBrain> the downside of a JIT is that your backtrace is USELESSSSSssss
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14:12:33 <planetmaker> Rubidium: the mime type for logs is now adjusted and it should work as desired.
14:13:33 <Xaroth> TrueBrain: the EA support page even has an entry called Dune under franchise
14:15:04 <Rubidium> planetmaker: are you sure you haven't set it to text/html?
14:15:46 <planetmaker> last time I checked: yes. But there's some weired statistics script running... that does *something*
14:15:57 <Xaroth> didn't get a chance to chat with teh bossman, jetlag.. but we'll chat tomorrow
14:16:41 <Xaroth> i can make a ticket under Dune/Dune II
14:16:51 <Rubidium> planetmaker: because my browser says it's text/html
14:18:19 <TrueBrain> never played Dune3 ...
14:18:19 <Xaroth> Platform: PC ; Game: Dune/Dune II ; Category: Technical, the note below
14:18:20 <Xaroth> Please be sure to attach your computer's DirectX Diagnostic information to this request; this information contains details on your hardware that will allow us to diagnose your issue.
14:18:29 <Xaroth> TrueBrain: that's because there was none
14:18:36 <planetmaker> Rubidium: true. thx, I'll investigate
14:18:49 <Xaroth> that's Emperor: Battle for Dune
14:18:56 <Xaroth> if counting, that'd be Dune 4.
14:19:02 <Xaroth> Dune 2000 would have been #3
14:19:08 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: no, it is the 3rd of the Dune2 series
14:19:14 <TrueBrain> Dune2 is the first ;)
14:19:30 <TrueBrain> Dune1 is nothing like Dune2 :)
14:19:43 <Xaroth> Dune 1 is to Dune 2 like what WoW is to WC3
14:19:57 <TrueBrain> LOL! A very ... weird comparison
14:20:12 <TrueBrain> "It is the third real-time strategy game set in the Dune universe"
14:20:13 <Xaroth> and tbh, I prefer Dune 1 over wow.
14:20:38 <Xaroth> D1 was a turn based puzzle
14:20:45 <TrueBrain> either way, never played it, didn't even knew it existed
14:21:02 <TrueBrain> try to keep up will you
14:21:29 <Xaroth> Emperor just had 6 sides to pick from
14:21:41 <OwenS> I remember Emperor being advertised quite heavily in C&C: RA and C&C95 IIRC
14:21:47 <Xaroth> Ordos, Harkonen, Atreides, Fremen, Tleilaxu and something
14:22:07 <TrueBrain> I guess I wasn't interested in those games back then :p
14:22:15 <TrueBrain> did play all C&Cs ..
14:22:32 <Xaroth> I played too many games
14:22:53 <TrueBrain> well, not the latest C&C, but it sucks
14:22:57 <TrueBrain> what is it called ... Generals?
14:23:07 <Xaroth> TrueBrain: There's an option to ask policy-related questions about dune on the EA customer support site
14:23:08 <blathijs> TrueBrain: That's not the latest (but it does suck)
14:23:11 <OwenS> RA3 and C&C3 have come out since :p
14:23:31 <blathijs> it seems the latest (RA3 and C&C3) are ok again
14:23:37 <Xaroth> I still prefer RA2/Tiberian Sun and the earlier
14:23:57 <blathijs> Yeah, those were really good
14:23:57 <TrueBrain> I liked C&C Renegade :)
14:23:58 <OwenS> RA3 has taken RA2's sillyness and turned it up to 11
14:24:11 <OwenS> Best RTS ever was Total Annihilation though IMO :p
14:24:15 <TrueBrain> C&C3 I played on the xbox I think
14:24:21 <TrueBrain> gave it a big remove after 10 minutes
14:24:31 <Xaroth> but it wouldn't beat Dune 2 if D2 had multiplayer :p
14:24:39 <blathijs> Though it's funny to play the original C&C again and see how they could create a soldier from 7 pixels or something
14:24:42 <TrueBrain> NOTHING beats Dune2 :p
14:24:52 <Xaroth> < TrueBrain> NOTHING beats Dune2 :p << exactly.
14:25:00 <OwenS> Nah it would. Nothing beats throwing hordes of units at each other like you can in TA :p
14:25:03 <blathijs> Though Dune2 could use some control improvements :-p
14:25:14 <Xaroth> who cares, it's Dune 2!
14:25:15 <TrueBrain> it could use a lots of improvements :p
14:25:20 <OwenS> TA actually involves strategy, unlike pretty much the entirety of the RT"S" genre :p
14:25:23 <TrueBrain> nowedays RTSes are more the same
14:25:25 <TrueBrain> there is nothing new ....
14:25:36 <Xaroth> TA was just about a big e-peen contest
14:25:41 <Xaroth> with big guns, and who could make most of em
14:25:42 <TrueBrain> just better gfx, and harder-to-get-right-camera-points-shit
14:26:04 <OwenS> Xaroth: Not really. Our games involved lots of strategic thinking :p
14:26:12 <Xaroth> OwenS: yer doing it wrong.
14:26:26 <Xaroth> Rubidium: not even the monkey?
14:27:05 <OwenS> Xaroth: If TA became a "who can spam most units" contest... you or your oponents sucked :p
14:27:09 <TrueBrain> either way, Xaroth, today I finished resuming and stats collecting .. now I need to make something that analyzes the stats and produces static binaries :p
14:27:59 <OwenS> Oh great... Faithcats making that horrible noise
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14:28:36 <OwenS> The one that generally precedes cleaning up a furball from the carpet
14:34:56 <TrueBrain> it always triggers a reflex by me to pick up the cat and throw him outside
14:39:06 <Xaroth> That's why i have a bird :P
14:40:55 <planetmaker> Rubidium: better now?
14:43:01 <Rubidium> planetmaker: perfect
14:43:35 <planetmaker> yw. Say thanks also to Ammler and FooBar :-)
14:43:52 <Rubidium> thanks Ammler & FooBar :D
14:44:09 <Rubidium> how can I upload the release? Or do you have to do that?
14:45:40 <dihedral> fucking piece of Zend Framework!
14:45:59 <dihedral> giving me a 500 in apache with it's silly rewrite rules
14:46:13 <dihedral> and i have no clues why on earth it is all of a sudden doing silly stuff
14:46:22 <planetmaker> adding it to bundles.openttdcoop.org/opensfx works only with full ssh access - as it is supposed to be the output of the CF ... adding it to the files of a project is available to any project manager.
14:46:28 <dihedral> the rewrite log only shows me THAT it is doing silly stuff
14:47:05 <planetmaker> you see... our CF isn't perfect either :-P
14:53:21 <planetmaker> Rubidium: shall I upload a built of the tag'ed version?
14:55:58 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r17153 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix (r11429): don't allow further remapping of already remapped string
14:57:21 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r17154 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix (r11129): several times copypasted typo
14:59:27 <Ammler> our CF isn't perfect :-o
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15:02:41 <planetmaker> we always need something which we can improve on, hm? Would get boring otherwise...
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15:04:11 <Ammler> we have a bit chaos with all the differen unix users symlinked to each other :-)
15:04:16 <petern> i find "question, hmm?" phrasing really annoying, myself
15:05:01 <planetmaker> anything particular which you try to point at, petern ?
15:05:51 <petern> no, just a random remark
15:06:18 <petern> there was an idiot^W^W a guy on the forums who used that manner recently
15:06:52 <petern> when used in a "i know better you" way
15:15:51 <TrueBrain> the intelligence of that comment amazes me
15:16:38 <Eddi|zuHause> better than if you were borat...
15:17:26 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i have problems getting the images displayed on the forums...
15:17:52 <TrueBrain> disable your image-filter :p
15:18:39 <petern> then you'll see the adverts too
15:19:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i see the advert, but not most of the other images
15:19:08 <Eddi|zuHause> like all the icons or the background
15:21:04 <TrueBrain> lol! Poor 'Lord Aro' :p
15:21:11 <TrueBrain> not the smartest person on the forums :p
15:22:50 <planetmaker> well. I don't think he's stupid. Not yet at least.
15:22:55 <planetmaker> Much to learn he has, though
15:22:57 <TrueBrain> I never said stupid :)
15:23:00 <TrueBrain> just not the smartest :)
15:23:05 <Eddi|zuHause> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Bildschirmphoto11.png <- that's what the forum looks like to me
15:24:18 <SmatZ> works in my Konqueror (3.5.10)
15:24:18 <TrueBrain> time for Snipes at Z9 :p
15:33:33 <Eddi|zuHause> it worked in my konqueror 3.5, too...
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15:38:42 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: I had a similar issue with FF some time ago.
15:38:59 <Ammler> the issue was with tt-forums only
15:39:58 <Ammler> it worked again, as I "reseted" the profile
15:41:28 * TrueBrain murmles something about: run virus, run!
15:43:20 <Ammler> basically a new profile
15:43:51 <Ammler> I shared the profile with windows and linux and the issue was on both
15:44:44 <SmatZ> I am surprised it's possible
15:44:47 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: try with an other user.
15:44:57 * TrueBrain gives Eddi|zuHause a random other user
15:45:19 * SmatZ gives Eddi|zuHause sudo adduser
15:45:52 <Ammler> kde as root is fun :-)
15:49:05 <thingwath> hm, does someone here use KDE 4.3, compositing kwin, intel 945 and openttd?
15:49:20 <planetmaker> hm... does current kde still have the "bombing" background when loged in as root?
15:49:48 <SmatZ> depends on distro I guess
15:49:58 <planetmaker> that might indeed well be.
15:50:03 <Rubidium> have they still not accepted ln's patch to disallow X to be started as root?
15:50:14 <Rubidium> or KDE for that matter?
15:50:14 <planetmaker> I just find the red default KDE root background unbearable :-P (which comes with suse)
15:50:33 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: that might be the idea
15:50:37 <TrueBrain> a hint like: DO NOT USE IT :p
15:50:42 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: sure, I bet, too
15:50:50 <TrueBrain> (I love taking things serious :))
15:51:01 <planetmaker> the bombs painted on it, already lit, certainly help that impression :-P
15:51:14 <TrueBrain> poor forum user doesn't like me
15:51:18 <TrueBrain> boo-hoo, and I did so my best!
15:51:33 <TrueBrain> people just don't want to be loved in the way I only can give them love!
15:51:43 <planetmaker> c'mon, c'mon. There are others who like you... pooor TB...
15:52:10 <TrueBrain> thingwath: were you just wondering so you could check it off your list, or was there a more in-depth question related to it?
15:53:37 <TrueBrain> I really pictured thingwath with a big list next to his computer, with all those weird combination of software/hardware he has to find on the web :p
15:57:22 <thingwath> well, yes, if there were some other people, it could mean that it might be possible to make it work reasonably fast and fluently :)
15:57:35 <planetmaker> lool. I got an offer to use a "Abwrackprämie" also for excimer lasers...
15:58:21 <thingwath> when scrolling, picture falls apart into blocks and it doesn't redraw fast enough
15:58:43 <TrueBrain> using 8bpp-optimized?
15:58:46 <planetmaker> should be an x driver issue
15:59:22 <TrueBrain> sounds more like a SDL issue :p
15:59:31 <TrueBrain> haven't seen that block problem in months :p
16:00:30 <thingwath> ltris has same problem, for example
16:00:33 <petern> is it still broken with compositing off?
16:00:59 <thingwath> but without compositing, whole KDE is very sluggish, so I don't want to turn it off :)
16:01:34 <petern> 16:58 < thingwath> when scrolling, picture falls apart into blocks and it doesn't redraw fast enough
16:02:53 <thingwath> no, it's ok, without compositing
16:05:56 <thingwath> on the other hand, it is also ok with xmonad & xcompmgr compositing, so I think it might be possible to fix, somehow, with current xorg and drm driver :)
16:07:14 <petern> so your compositor is shit
16:07:26 <petern> i don't use such crap personally
16:08:08 <Ammler> thingwath: it works here with that config
16:09:16 <thingwath> then I'm doing something wrong, I guess
16:09:44 <petern> np: VNV Nation - Schweigeminute
16:10:06 <petern> lovely melodies in this
16:25:42 <OwenS> Random fact: URLs are valid C++/C99 :p
16:31:19 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r17155 /extra/website/bananas/views.py: [Website] -Fix: close files when you are done with them
16:32:36 <Rubidium> OwenS: valid in what sense?
16:33:01 <OwenS> Rubidium: It compiles :p
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16:34:26 * OwenS codes up for loop support (I committed if support last night)
16:41:20 <OwenS> I have a feeling people won't initially understand the generated code's structure
16:43:48 <Rubidium> OwenS: new://www.example.com isn't allowed :(
16:44:51 <Rubidium> goto://www.example.com isn't allowed either :(
16:47:58 <OwenS> Hmm.. What protocols can we come up with that conflict with C(++) keywords? :P
16:48:20 <Rubidium> A mailto URL takes the form:
16:48:20 <Rubidium> mailto:<rfc822-addr-spec>
16:48:38 <Rubidium> it doesn't start a comment
16:48:39 <OwenS> That doesn't conflict with a keyword though :p
16:49:56 <Rubidium> error: stray ‘@’ in program
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16:56:22 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: maybe you want to build something around this for an ioccc entry...
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16:57:23 <OwenS> Someone needs to make an IOC++C
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17:09:24 <xmakina> TrueBrain: NoAI project site has been down for a while - any idea/reason why?
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17:34:35 <Wolf01> what do you do when you are looking for something and you can't find it?
17:34:45 <TrueBrain> lovely .. the 'I am so good' Apache fucks up more often than lighttpd and nginx
17:35:28 * Wolf01 wants a search function in RL too :(
17:35:42 * TrueBrain gives Wolf01 a RL search function
17:36:38 <Wolf01> mmmh, where is it? I can't find it
17:36:55 <Rubidium> it's there where you won't find it without using it
17:37:54 <TrueBrain> hehe, I kind of like Lord Aro :p
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17:45:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r17156 /trunk/src/lang/ (dutch.txt finnish.txt indonesian.txt unfinished/malay.txt):
17:45:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 290 changes by miloiw
17:45:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: finnish - 38 changes by jpx_
17:45:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: indonesian - 11 changes by fanioz, prof
17:45:29 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: malay - 5 changes by rionix88
17:45:38 <TrueBrain> miloiw is doing a nice job ...
17:46:25 <Rubidium> though.. Jetvliegtuig?
17:46:48 <TrueBrain> I think nobody can do a perfect job in translating
17:47:08 <Rubidium> too bad he doesn't the translations :(
17:47:10 <petern> i can translate it perfectly to english
17:47:24 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: but at least he introduces a lot more consistancy :)
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17:50:40 <frosch123> "can" is worthless without "do"
17:53:27 <petern> "can" is worthless without "can opener"
17:53:50 <TrueBrain> and you claim to be perfect with english?
17:55:13 <Prof_Frink> petern: Ring pull.
17:55:54 <petern> that is a "can opener" in that case
17:55:59 <blathijs> Prof_Frink: Isn't the ring a can opener then?
17:56:11 <petern> and if the can contains beer, then that is heresy
17:56:37 <Prof_Frink> Then you need a bottle opener.
17:56:48 <blathijs> To open a can of beer?
17:57:06 <Prof_Frink> Cans of beer are good when wild camping. Much lighter than bottles.
17:57:12 <blathijs> petern: You always open your beer cans with a can opener of the non-ring type?
17:57:30 <Prof_Frink> blathijs: No, to give the can back and open a bottle of beer.
17:57:35 <Rubidium> a can isn't worthless without "can opener"; you can use it as building brick!
17:57:49 <Prof_Frink> Or it could be open already!
17:59:01 <SpComb> 20:58:44 < tefaj> Stupid questions get stupid answers.
18:08:31 <OwenS> Of course, currently long for loops generate stacks of text because I checkpoint on each function entry :p
18:13:21 <TrueBrain> on advise of Xaroth, switched noai to mongrel
18:13:25 <TrueBrain> we will see if that runs better/longer
18:21:01 <xmakina> TrueBrain: noai docs is down :S
18:21:27 <TrueBrain> xmakina: yeah, sorry, I made a configuration glitch :)
18:21:40 <TrueBrain> and I forget every time to test the configuration before publishing it :p
18:22:31 * OwenS wonders why people say writing recursive descent parsers is so hard. Admittedly the binary operators require some... lateral thinking... but the rest is quite easy
18:22:41 <OwenS> (Or perhaps my grammar is just nice :P )
18:22:55 <TrueBrain> I wouldn't know who says it isn't
18:23:03 <TrueBrain> writing a compiler in general is dead easy
18:23:09 <TrueBrain> just .. a different way of thinking
18:23:18 <petern> descent... now that was a game...
18:23:22 <TrueBrain> making the VM or JIT, that is another story :)
18:23:37 <OwenS> Well... Using LLVM elimitates that bit mostly :p
18:23:51 <TrueBrain> NAIL produces very fast a complete AST
18:23:55 <TrueBrain> was the easy part :p
18:23:55 <OwenS> libJIT would probably also work and be more lightweight
18:24:44 <TrueBrain> yippie, the proxy seems to do what it should do :)
18:27:24 <TrueBrain> anyone here with a worth-writing-about knowledge of LDAP? :p
18:28:47 <xmakina> probably a dumb question but why is "Many Random Industries" unbuildable in the scenario editor?
18:29:01 <TrueBrain> because you forgot to create the first town?
18:29:11 <xmakina> no - map has plenty of towns
18:30:02 <TrueBrain> blathijs: did you? :)
18:30:45 <Alberth> TrueBrain: you happen to have a type deduction system for expressions with poly-morphism and over-loading that can also handle parse ambiguities lying around?
18:31:05 <TrueBrain> Alberth: no, sorry, I ran all out of them :p
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18:44:54 <OwenS> lol. I have a type system, which has 4 possible deductions: Expression is a none, pretty much nothing legal; Expression is an Integer, allow integer ops & implicit float cast; Expression is a float, allow float ops; Expression is something else; allow everything but may abort at runtime :p
18:46:26 <OwenS> Yes it can handle ambigutities... but it handles them as variants and as such they share a variant's cost :p
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18:53:06 <Alberth> Parse ambiguities are much more fun. You have a node in the AST that says "here you can have this sub-tree or that sub-tree, please find out which one is valid"
18:54:43 <Eddi|zuHause> so? you just postpone that until the semantical analysis...
18:56:25 <Eddi|zuHause> C(++) is full of these things ;)
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19:08:35 <blathijs> TrueBrain: Are you inviting me to write an LDAP howto, or what?
19:09:27 <TrueBrain> I remembered you gave me an url a while back
19:09:29 <TrueBrain> forgot about that :p
19:11:26 <blathijs> TrueBrain: git.stderr.nl/gitweb
19:11:33 <xmakina> i've tinkered with ldap before - hated every second of it :P
19:11:35 <TrueBrain> blathijs: yeah, as I said, I remembered ;)
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19:12:04 <blathijs> Ah, I thought you forgot the url :-p
19:12:17 <blathijs> I am still planning to blog about my LDAP setup, but I haven't got around to it yet...
19:14:13 <TrueBrain> as LDAP is just a store device, I wonder if I can get all sites to work with the same password ..
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19:17:00 <blathijs> TrueBrain: Probably. Using httpd auth should be easy, and most existing webapps have an LDAP auth module or plugin
19:17:53 <TrueBrain> do they share a common password field?
19:19:26 <blathijs> Yeah, passwords are pretty much standardized in the posixAccount object class
19:20:02 <blathijs> Or rather, authentication can be handled by the LDAP server as well, so the client just tries to "bind" to the LDAP server using a login/password
19:20:49 <blathijs> Authorization (or group memberships) are slightly more involved, but not much
19:21:30 <blathijs> TrueBrain: Perhaps you should write down what you want to do with LDAP exactly?
19:21:44 <TrueBrain> easy: centralize authentication for openttd.org
19:21:54 <TrueBrain> so users signup once, and can access all websites
19:22:06 <blathijs> Mainly regarding the authorization, do you want a group for each service, or one "Devs" group that enables users to do stuff, etc.
19:22:08 <TrueBrain> well .. most likely they have to signup on things like flyspray anyway, but then they share the password :p
19:22:29 <TrueBrain> well, a devs group will be useful in regards to ssh access
19:22:44 <blathijs> So no real authorization for most services (just having an account is enough for access)
19:25:32 <TrueBrain> I got to go now for a while .. I will check on it next week or so
19:26:14 <TrueBrain> I will bug you later if you don't mind blathijs :) Tnx anyway :)
19:28:07 <blathijs> TrueBrain: Sure, feel free
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19:36:00 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i still have a rogue hard disk lying next to my computer...
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20:14:13 <glx> ln posted something similar 2/3 days ago :)
20:15:11 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
20:23:49 <_ln> old, older, pasted-by-ln-already
20:24:34 <TrueBrain> why do sites never do what they claim to do :(
20:24:54 <_ln> well you shouldn't believe all those enlargement spams.
20:25:12 <Rubidium> why do webserver never do what they claim to do?
20:25:20 <TrueBrain> that too .. that too ...
20:25:25 <TrueBrain> but we are getting tehre Rubidium :)
20:26:28 <TrueBrain> no good new movie releases
20:27:04 <Rubidium> and if there are recent movie releases the quality is CRAP
20:27:14 <Rubidium> either of the movie or of the capturing thereof
20:27:24 <TrueBrain> sorry, with 'release' I meant 720p releases
20:27:45 <Rubidium> tss... pauperkwaliteit ;)
20:27:57 <TrueBrain> I don't have a 1080i TV :p
20:28:30 <OwenS> I don't know what my TV's panel is... but it takes in 1080p feeds =/
20:28:39 <Rubidium> but I dislike the bilinear scaling on my laptop
20:29:12 <frosch123> true, bicubic is a lot better
20:29:27 <TrueBrain> OwenS: mine does too, but it scales back to 720p, so a waste ofmy bandwidth .. rather: diskspace :p
20:29:46 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: didn't you have spelling correction commit to do?
20:29:47 <Rubidium> still, bicubic is worse than having a (near) native resolution in the movie
20:30:00 <OwenS> Rubidium: Depends how the movie was originally scaled :p
20:30:09 <OwenS> TrueBrain: True; though a 1080p of the same file size as a 720p will look better :p
20:31:05 <Rubidium> OwenS: anything that's not originally shot at Super HiVision quality just plain sucks ;)
20:32:09 <OwenS> TV? 37" and I think 1280x768; Monitor: 19" 1280x1024; The TV's scaling alogorithm is such I can't tell 1080p and 720p output from the PS3 apart =/
20:32:22 <TrueBrain> sure, I was talking about screens
20:32:43 <OwenS> Rubidium: Super HiVision?
20:32:51 <Rubidium> OwenS: never seen that?
20:33:15 <Rubidium> or have I typed it incorrectly?
20:33:38 <OwenS> Meh; I take your Super Hi-Vision and raise the quality higher, to about 100,000p24 - 70mm film :p
20:33:50 <Xaroth> [TrueBrain]: on advise of Xaroth, switched noai to mongrel << my advise?!?!?
20:33:57 <Xaroth> i just informed you that apache passenger is a pile of wank :P
20:33:59 <Rubidium> does it have 22.2 sound?
20:34:20 <TrueBrain> he, I give you credit, you don't want it? Sure, i don't care :p
20:34:29 <OwenS> Rubidium: No reason it can't
20:34:39 <Xaroth> heh, if it runs nice, i'll take the credit, else.. :P
20:34:48 <TrueBrain> so far it runs nice :p
20:35:02 <TrueBrain> and it has 3 instances which need to crash :p
20:35:22 <OwenS> Rubidium: 70mm film just contains a timecode that syncs to external audio; most of the time this is 5.1 DTS Cinema though IIRC
20:35:31 <TrueBrain> too bad it consumes 100 MiB of RAM :(
20:35:39 <TrueBrain> and I already lost 1 instance .. lol
20:35:46 <OwenS> Actually no I think it's 7.1 DTS Cinema now
20:36:34 <Xaroth> TrueBrain: make sure to edit the mongrel_cluster init.d script
20:36:48 <Xaroth> the 'default' one just looks for a pid file and aborts if there is one
20:37:14 <Xaroth> so if the OS crashes, it won't automatically restart on reboot
20:37:34 <TrueBrain> the debian-one doesn't appear to do that
20:38:07 <TrueBrain> changed it to running just 1 instance ..
20:38:14 <TrueBrain> using 300 MiB of RAM for NoAI is a tiny bit over the top
20:38:24 <TrueBrain> why does it have to consumes so much memory :(
20:38:30 <TrueBrain> where is the time things were memroy efficient?
20:38:35 <Xaroth> because it's ruby on rails :P
20:38:51 <TrueBrain> I really really REALLY don't get that shit :(
20:38:59 <Rubidium> there're a few things that seem fairly memory stable
20:39:04 <TrueBrain> what has it stored? The compelte english dictonary in triple?
20:40:05 <OwenS> TrueBrain: That, and a German and Japanese one, and a translation dictionary between them :p
20:40:15 <TrueBrain> OwenS: we (read: you) should write a script that is better than Python and Ruby (memory and speed-wise)
20:40:47 <OwenS> TrueBrain: I'll try and make AlterScript that :p
20:40:48 <Rubidium> and better than squirrel size/code style wise
20:41:15 <TrueBrain> really, that should be possible ... to not comsume such a large amount of memory for such a relative simple website?
20:41:24 <Xaroth> TrueBrain: quick easy command to check mem usage?
20:41:39 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: a german dictionary that contains all possible concatenations ;)
20:41:41 <Xaroth> ps shows 5% on this rig
20:41:50 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: % means nothing .......
20:41:53 <TrueBrain> my disk is 90% empty
20:41:59 <TrueBrain> well .. yeah .. if it is 100 MiB disk, that is good for you
20:42:08 <TrueBrain> if it is a 100 TiB disk, that is still a lot in use
20:42:16 <Xaroth> Mem: 775148k total, 583628k used, 191520k free, 222436k buffers
20:42:28 <Rubidium> OwenS: LLVM means it is *big*
20:42:31 <TrueBrain> (Well, depends on your cache to give any sane value :p)
20:42:36 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: ps aux | grep mongrel
20:42:40 <OwenS> Rubidium: I'm gonna add a libjit backend as well I think
20:42:45 <planetmaker> behold. OpenGFX 0.1.0-alpha6 is available as is OpenSFX-0.1.0alpha1
20:42:49 <Xaroth> www-data 22489 0.0 5.8 62772 45516 ? Sl Aug03 1:56 /usr/bin/ruby1.8 /usr/bin/mongrel_rails start -d -e production -c /var/local/redmine --user www-data --group www-data --prefix /redmine -p 8000 -P tmp/pids/mongrel.8000.pid -l log/mongrel.8000.log
20:43:00 <TrueBrain> 45M, that is smaller than what I have :p
20:43:31 <frosch123> print("Hello, " + who"); <- weird syntax you use
20:43:40 <OwenS> In any case... at least the LLVM code can be discarded when it's running and doesn't need to stay resident
20:44:14 <frosch123> oh, i thought it was a postfix string conversion
20:44:17 <Xaroth> TrueBrain: 45m is still a CRAPTON if you realise that mongrel instance probably only gets 1 visitor a week?
20:44:45 <TrueBrain> www-data 11929 0.6 37.9 211312 75932 ? Sl 20:36 0:03 <- 75M
20:44:56 <TrueBrain> (but 40% of the available memory :p)
20:44:58 <OwenS> TrueBrain: How do I get the resident size for a process except for via top? :p
20:45:10 <TrueBrain> ps aux ....... if you would have read :p
20:45:25 <OwenS> TrueBrain: I was hoping for something less "manually parsed" :p
20:45:40 <Xaroth> [OwenS]: TrueBrain: I was hoping for something less "manually parsed" :p << that's why i initially asked TB :P
20:45:50 <TrueBrain> learn to read it ... it will be your good friend
20:46:51 <Rubidium> or rather cat proc 'n' cut
20:47:05 <TrueBrain> then you need to know the pid
20:47:10 <TrueBrain> for which you need to do either pid or ps :p
20:48:04 <TrueBrain> "Diana was still alive hours before she died" <- reading through funny headlines
20:48:24 <OwenS> Rubidium: LLVM may be large... but my resident size is only 6mb for the entire interpreter
20:48:56 <OwenS> Thats smaller than a Python instance :P
20:49:12 <TrueBrain> OwenS: don't even try to compare your language at this point ... lots can change :)
20:49:16 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: failblog not enough for you? ;)
20:49:18 <TrueBrain> a Python 'instance' contains many loaded objects :p
20:49:20 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: nope :)
20:49:53 <OwenS> TrueBrain: Thats a python instance with nothing loaded sitting there :P And yes, lots will change... but LLVM isn't that much overhead compared to an interpreter
20:50:39 <Eddi|zuHause> i remember one time when jay leno made "headlines", he hold up a newspaper add with a search for someone, and the picture looked a lot like jay leno ;)
20:52:06 <TrueBrain> OwenS: for all we know, you only use 1% of the LLVM functions you will be using at the end :)
20:52:22 <TrueBrain> so I really do hope for you it is a low overhead :)
20:52:31 <TrueBrain> but .. I dunno .. LLVM sounds BIG :p
20:52:36 <TrueBrain> but in all fairness .. never installed it :p
20:52:51 <OwenS> TrueBrain: Well... I'm using all the libs I'll be using at the end, except perhaps the bitcode writer (for saving optimized objects)
20:53:02 <TrueBrain> using libs != using functions :)
20:53:04 <TrueBrain> linkers are smart ;)
20:53:47 <OwenS> TrueBrain: Not at getting rid of bits of LLVM's codegen :p
20:54:20 <TrueBrain> okay, now it is fair to say: Lord Aro is stupid :p
20:54:28 <TrueBrain> well . stupid .. very lazy
20:55:48 <OwenS> Muhahaha! I just managed to lose a friend in TVTropes :P
20:56:37 <OwenS> www.tvtropes.org - be warned, it's like internet crack :p
20:56:58 <TrueBrain> ha, I was in time :) WHOHO!
20:57:08 <Rubidium> there goes WT 3.1. :(
20:57:15 <TrueBrain> was it ever to be finished?
20:57:39 <TrueBrain> I think it is me .. but I don't get the website :p
20:58:07 <OwenS> TVTropes has a habit of getting stuff traveling down my pipe...
21:00:02 <OwenS> TVTropes doesn't cause me tab explosions... just tabs that don't go away :p
21:01:14 <TrueBrain> sometimes I just don't get xkcd ..
21:01:49 <Eddi|zuHause> i didn't get that one either...
21:02:12 <OwenS> (I open it to close it, see something interesting, go "ooo", and... it stays there. And before you say "Get a browser which lets you close tabs without opening them"... My Opera tabs are at this point about 24px wide and if they had close buttons would lack room for the identifying favicon)
21:03:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i never use tabs...
21:03:22 <TrueBrain> maybe I just don't have a sense of humor
21:03:44 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: you don't know the little prince?
21:04:37 <Eddi|zuHause> the story with the snake who swallowed an elephant?
21:05:07 <Eddi|zuHause> i guess you seriously missed something then ;)
21:06:19 <TrueBrain> why do insects always join me in my room
21:06:21 <TrueBrain> I didn't ask for that :(
21:06:26 <TrueBrain> I don't want them here!
21:06:47 <Eddi|zuHause> two solutions for that: 1) close the windows, 2) shut off the light
21:06:58 <Nite_Owl> they either like you or are hungry
21:07:08 <Alberth> just like you, they know where the food is good.
21:07:09 <OwenS> 3) Get a window with a ventilate setting
21:07:11 <TrueBrain> they can't see the light from outside!!
21:07:37 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: they can smell you sweet blood
21:08:35 <OwenS> I don't know whether to click that link or not
21:08:37 <TrueBrain> always wanted something against incest :p
21:08:53 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: it is sfw ;)
21:09:32 <TrueBrain> whoho, Malay did one more translation .. just 2199 to go
21:09:48 <OwenS> I suppose it's just the quantity of people trying to get me with goatse-style stuff :p
21:10:03 <TrueBrain> goatse.cx is down :(
21:10:18 <OwenS> goatse.cz works apparently
21:11:12 <OwenS> Hmm no... telnet test indicates it's now sedoparked =(
21:12:12 <TrueBrain> .fr has the image :p
21:12:48 <OwenS> goatse.fr. 10734 IN SOA a.dns.gandi.net. hostmaster.gandi.net. 1235316348 10800 3600 604800 10800
21:12:51 <OwenS> I find that quite humorous :p
21:12:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure why you really check that :p
21:13:03 <TrueBrain> I used google, and clicked on it ..
21:13:14 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: they misspelled ghandi
21:13:23 <SmatZ> Akoz: where are you getting back?
21:13:35 <OwenS> Also... They appear to be running DJBDNS
21:13:56 <TrueBrain> archive.org has goatse.cx! :p
21:13:57 <Rubidium> SmatZ: that's simple to answer: when you went to bed :)
21:13:59 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: i have not the slightest idea what that means
21:14:21 <Eddi|zuHause> oh. that makes it more clear. certainly
21:14:22 <TrueBrain> openttd.org is not in archive.org since 2007 ...
21:14:33 <OwenS> TrueBrain: Banned by Robots? :p
21:15:39 <TrueBrain> archive.org is SLLOOOWWWWwww
21:15:50 <Akoz> smatz: saturday or monday. not sure yet
21:16:09 <Akoz> btw I dont have any alerts on ppl writing my nick in this channel, so give me a pm if you want my attention please :)
21:16:14 <OwenS> TrueBrain: Loads quite fast here. Which is surprising!
21:16:28 <OwenS> Hehe I remember that OpenTTD theme
21:16:40 <TrueBrain> but okay ... no indication why it doesn't index openttd.org anymore :p
21:16:44 <TrueBrain> maybe nobody visited or something
21:17:29 <OwenS> Out of curiosity, hows the text wrapped in the "OpenTTD is an open source clone of Transport Tycoon Delux" bit on the current main page - could do with some right padding for me cause it runs right into the icons
21:17:39 <OwenS> (As in, they're almost touching)
21:17:56 <Akoz> smatz: is there any chance it will make it into trunk? if not I will not bother work more on it regardless :p
21:18:06 <TrueBrain> OwenS: I only know it took me ages to get it like this
21:18:22 <TrueBrain> only Opera fails to render it correctly
21:18:25 <TrueBrain> so I said: fuck Opera
21:18:25 <OwenS> Also... the subtitles under "Download OpenTTD" and such overlay the text
21:18:36 <TrueBrain> even IE5.5 renders it correct ... makes you wonder :p
21:19:12 <OwenS> I have no trouble getting stuff to work in Opera...
21:19:40 <TrueBrain> for all browsers, it is slightly harder :p
21:19:50 <OwenS> I tend to develop in Opera though, so :p
21:19:53 <TrueBrain> and if 1 browser fucks up a CSS1 website, I say: fuck that browser
21:20:26 <OwenS> Interestingly, a design I just made worked first time in Opera, Firefox, Konqueror, Webkit, IE7 and IE6 (Except for the alpha PNGs)... I was quite amazed!
21:21:26 <TrueBrain> it is btw the only thing that fucks up on any browser
21:21:36 <TrueBrain> yeah, default Debian install doesn't have the right font, so the menu fucks up slightly
21:21:59 <TrueBrain> the rest it is identical on all browser (if I can believe what was that site again ..
21:22:01 <OwenS> Which font? Cause I stole a bunch of fonts from my Windows install :p
21:22:10 <TrueBrain> browsershot.org I believe :p
21:22:27 <TrueBrain> oh, a default webfont
21:24:01 <TrueBrain> I guess it is not 'free' enough for Debian or what ever
21:24:15 <OwenS> Trebecuchet MS isn't open source by any definition
21:24:23 <OwenS> To reproduce it you have to keep it in it's .exe
21:24:24 <TrueBrain> browsershot.org is getting worce by the month ... pages that don't load .. shit like that
21:24:35 <OwenS> It's browsershots.org ;P
21:25:14 <TrueBrain> Dillo fails to follow CSS1 :p
21:26:51 <Eddi|zuHause> that page opens with an error "jCarousel: No width/height set for items. This will cause an infinite loop. Aborting..."
21:27:05 <OwenS> Whoa... My contend degrades *perfectly* in dillo except for the fact that my credit image is white on white :p
21:28:18 <Eddi|zuHause> (using konqueror 4)
21:28:37 <OwenS> I must complain that Browsershots doesn't wait for the page to load -_-
21:28:51 <TrueBrain> that I just said .. didn't I? :p
21:29:11 <OwenS> Oh thats what you meant by that :p
21:29:57 <TrueBrain> just really doesn't know CSS1 :p
21:30:38 <OwenS> I'm glad I went for the white text with black outline for the header... It degrades perfectly :p
21:30:42 <TrueBrain> a dildo, but for the web
21:31:02 <TrueBrain> I noticed that you did, so I thought I would help you out
21:32:04 <TrueBrain> it always makes me happy to see so many browsers rendering the website identical :)
21:32:05 <OwenS> Dillo 2.1.1 does CSS =/
21:32:31 <TrueBrain> I clearly said CSS1 all the time :)
21:32:38 <OwenS> background-color and text-align seem to the only supported elements :p
21:33:19 <TrueBrain> well, openttd.org renders perfectly on non-CSS browsers too :)
21:33:36 <Eddi|zuHause> # if i had a million dollars
21:33:57 <OwenS> Haha! Browsershots windows system seems to be showing german pagefile notices :p
21:34:03 <Nite_Owl> if I had a hammer...
21:34:13 <_ln> Eddi|zuHause: if zimbabwean dollars are ok, then...
21:34:35 <Eddi|zuHause> _ln: the US Dollar is on the best way to getting there, too ;)
21:34:55 <TrueBrain> OwenS: if you now check the page, you see Opera is the only one who really fucks up :p
21:36:30 <TrueBrain> and I want to underline we do CSS1 only! (well, a small snippet of CSS2, but okay)
21:36:36 <TrueBrain> yet .. Opera completely fails
21:36:39 <TrueBrain> so I say again: OPERA SUCKS
21:36:56 <OwenS> Only error I see in Opera is the top text
21:37:19 <TrueBrain> I have no idea what went wrong
21:37:53 <OwenS> Looks like their connection dropped
21:37:59 <TrueBrain> in the middle of a CSS?
21:38:33 <TrueBrain> cool even Flock renders the site correct (What ever Flock is)
21:39:27 <TrueBrain> yeah .. my point ...
21:39:53 <TrueBrain> how can it be that an old version renders the CSS1 correct, and the newer versions fuck up?
21:40:40 <OwenS> That Avast warning sucks :p
21:41:07 <TrueBrain> Avant renders it correct! \o/
21:41:28 <TrueBrain> (what ever that is)
21:41:44 <TrueBrain> really .. who comes up with those names?
21:45:08 <CACD> Hi! Is there a town vector for temperate which adds additional growth factors?
21:46:57 <Ammler> what is that dildo browser based on?
21:47:09 <TrueBrain> Ammler: www.google.com -> dillo
21:47:15 <OwenS> Ammler: Dillo is a custom engine
21:47:35 <Ammler> TrueBrain: then I wouldn't ask here :-P
21:47:42 <TrueBrain> oh, you catched on on that?
21:48:51 <Eddi|zuHause> why do the best songs have no text that you can quote in a chat?
21:49:00 <TrueBrain> CACD: I think nobody is awake who can answer your question; maybe try the forums?
21:49:09 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: I have no problems quoting it :)
21:49:19 <TrueBrain> I love that song :)
21:49:22 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: well, that is a text ;)
21:49:23 <TrueBrain> # fuck you very very much...
21:49:30 <Eddi|zuHause> and yes, the song is great, too ;)
21:49:56 <TrueBrain> I just hope CACD didn't think it was for him .. I hope he knows what the # means :s)
21:50:07 <Eddi|zuHause> but Howard Shore - The Forbidden Pool does not have any text ;)
21:50:24 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: easy solution:
21:50:34 <TrueBrain> PAM PAM PAM PAMPA PAM PA PAPAM
21:50:41 <TrueBrain> PAM PAM PAMMDEDAM DA DA DAM DA DA DAM
21:50:44 <Eddi|zuHause> and damn you, now i have to listen to lily allen ;)
21:50:48 <CACD> I don't know what # means... still I didn't think it was directed at me
21:50:58 <TrueBrain> CACD: pfew ;) I was singing
21:51:05 <TrueBrain> not the best thing to withness, but ithappens
21:51:30 <OwenS> Note to self: Never be heard singing Komm, Suser Tod to one's self
21:51:49 <Eddi|zuHause> did you mean "süß"?
21:51:58 <TrueBrain> Note to self: never make notes to self in public channels
21:52:00 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: yes. I lack such accents :p
21:52:15 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: there's a rule for that
21:52:24 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: found inspiration?
21:52:30 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: replace "ü" with "ue" and "ß" with "ss"
21:52:45 <Xaroth> TrueBrain: nope, server issue that needs tending first
21:52:47 <_ln> OwenS: fortunately, ü is not an accent.
21:53:02 <OwenS> # "So with sadness in my heart / I feel the best thing I could do / is end it all / and leave forever"
21:53:27 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: Actually, thats how it's labeled in my collection. Doh! :p
21:54:12 <OwenS> No, the label is correct :p
21:54:23 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: the german spelling rules are quite strict on this ;)
21:54:42 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: no, they should listen to the label of OwenS!
21:55:01 <Eddi|zuHause> because everything else would cause problematic ambiguousities (?)
21:55:32 <OwenS> That song just added to the epic mindscrew (of pneumatic drill proportions) that was the movie it was in...
21:55:54 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know the song...
21:56:00 <TrueBrain> now I have to listen Damien Rice ...
21:56:20 <Eddi|zuHause> listen to christina aguilera instead
21:56:35 <OwenS> From the End of Evangelion OST. In spite of the name... It was composed in Japan and sung in English :p
21:57:13 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: that's no reason to misspell it
21:57:36 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: As I said, the mis-spelling was all my fault. I've never been taught german :p
21:57:47 <TrueBrain> then why do you say the label is correct :(
21:57:51 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: but you get bonus points for not trying to simulate an "ß" by writing "B"
21:58:39 <OwenS> OK.. time to put on a track with less depressing lyrics :p
21:58:55 <Eddi|zuHause> believe me, people did that. and it took five guys to decipher what the person meant...
21:59:23 <TrueBrain> those german people are not the smartest, are they :p
21:59:55 <Eddi|zuHause> honestly... nobody was expecting that...
22:00:09 <TrueBrain> even the most unreadable stuff I can read by just looking at it without reading
22:00:19 <TrueBrain> mostly because in reality your brain never reads the letters individual
22:00:28 <TrueBrain> but it just makes something out of how it looks/acts
22:01:07 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, and when it looks like a "B" in the middle of the word, your brain stops parsing...
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22:01:14 <TrueBrain> OwenS: Opera 9.27 renders the site also correct! :p
22:01:22 <TrueBrain> then you don't read enough crap :)
22:01:38 <Eddi|zuHause> and then you read "GruB", and that totally alters the meaning ;)
22:02:01 <TrueBrain> today my roommate wrote something on the board
22:02:03 <TrueBrain> it could have been arabic
22:02:07 <OwenS> One Of The Most Annoying Things People Do All The Fucking Time Is Type Like This, Which Makes My Mental Voice Talk Like William Shatner
22:02:16 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: solution, read it backwards ;)
22:02:24 <TrueBrain> no, it was like: -------
22:02:30 <TrueBrain> with slight variation in up and down
22:02:47 <OwenS> TrueBrain: Seismograph? :p
22:02:56 <TrueBrain> still I could read it without too much effort :p
22:03:13 <Eddi|zuHause> but honestly, when your brain translates the writing to "grub", it could mean anything...
22:03:32 <Eddi|zuHause> but you never get the idea that he could have meant "Gruß"
22:04:00 <OwenS> That sounds kinda like what happened to me when I did my second 2 hour writing exam (After 2 hours of writing in the morning), then did ½ the paper in 2/3 the time.. Then had to rush through the second half
22:04:51 <OwenS> It wouldn't have been so bad if the f*cking examiner hadn't forgotten to refer the paper properly... Causing me to drop 2 grades for 3 months -_-
22:05:34 <OwenS> It also wouldn't have been so bad if someone at the exam board had gone "Hey, this guy got an A in English Lit and a D in English Lang... anyone find this a bit odd?"
22:09:22 <thingwath> superior technology, really :)
22:11:39 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... they're announcing to show harpers island in germany already...
22:11:41 <Eddi|zuHause> that was fast...
22:12:27 <Eddi|zuHause> even though horror/thriller is not really my genre ;)
22:13:03 <Rubidium> isn't that a "Killerfernsehprogram"?
22:13:19 <Rubidium> shouldn't the German government forbid it?
22:13:22 <Eddi|zuHause> sure... but tv is not The Great Evil anymore :p
22:13:37 <TrueBrain> Internet on the other hand ...
22:14:01 <Eddi|zuHause> and: "Programm" ;)
22:14:35 <Eddi|zuHause> and shows like that are usually cut on tv
22:14:50 <OwenS> Isn't German censorship the reason Austrian web game stores are more popular than would be predicted given the size of the population? :p
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22:15:28 <Eddi|zuHause> and some austrian web shops have been legally threatened ;)
22:15:59 <OwenS> For allowing people to import them? Is personal import not legal? :p
22:16:25 <TrueBrain> I get my CDs from Germany, because then I don't have to pay a stupid tax over it
22:16:36 <Eddi|zuHause> not the import is the problem. the advertising for indexed games
22:16:36 <TrueBrain> they try to sue the German companies; they failed
22:17:13 *** Lakie` is now known as Lakie
22:17:58 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: when the website advertises indexed games/shows indexed pictures, the websites themselves get indexed.
22:18:12 <Eddi|zuHause> where "index" is the "censorship list"
22:18:31 <Eddi|zuHause> then they must implement a block for german people...
22:18:45 <TrueBrain> and if they don't? :)
22:18:48 <Eddi|zuHause> or an age verification
22:19:01 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: i'm not sure ;)
22:19:22 <TrueBrain> I mean .. I want to see that .. Germans forcing, say, Russia to block certain IPs :p
22:20:02 <OwenS> I wonder... is it legal for me to sell the DVDs unrated by the BBFC I have (American imports) that are in my personal collection? Shops are unable to sell something they haven't rated... but private persons?
22:20:16 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: like ever
22:21:00 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: but given the recent development of an internet censoring system through dns blocks ("only" for "child pornography"), there are loud voices that want this system to be used vor "violence", "hate", "holocaust denial", "anticonstitutional propaganda", "killer games", ...
22:21:16 <TrueBrain> the end of the free world
22:21:27 <TrueBrain> the reason they should never have started with such 'filters' in the first place
22:21:31 <TrueBrain> Who is watching the watchers?
22:21:31 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: the one with the deepest pockets usually wins, in this case I reckon the pockets of the German government are way bigger than those of the Austrian web companies
22:21:49 <OwenS> "I may not agree with what you say, but I will fight to the death for your right to say it"
22:22:15 <TrueBrain> well, I give it 2 to 3 more years .. I think by then 'free speech' is no more on the Internet
22:22:19 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: apparently, german politicians have never heard it.
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22:22:40 <TrueBrain> when you say in a chatroom: I WANT TO KILL THAT .....
22:22:45 <TrueBrain> you get arrested for that in the next hour
22:22:50 <TrueBrain> wait, my doorbell rings, one moment
22:23:13 <OwenS> Then again I feel that the ECHR should be extended to require full freedom of speech :p
22:23:22 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: schaterlach?
22:24:10 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: the sad thing about the whole "killer game" debate is, because of "youth protection" reasons, adult people are turned into criminals for playing them
22:24:37 <Eddi|zuHause> not speaking about producing them...
22:24:48 <Eddi|zuHause> there was a game company raided by the police already...
22:24:57 <TrueBrain> I have to say, that what was the name of that game ....
22:24:59 <OwenS> I find it interesting how it's such a big debate in both the US and Germany, but here in the UK you rarely hear it and were generally a cultural melting pot between the US and continental Europe...
22:25:06 <TrueBrain> something with an M .. number 2 ..
22:25:30 <TrueBrain> yeah! That that game is not allowed in most sane countries
22:25:32 <TrueBrain> that I can understand
22:25:35 <TrueBrain> that game is really sick!
22:25:40 <OwenS> It's allowed in the UK; rated 18
22:25:43 <TrueBrain> of course dutch laws can't prevent a game from being released .......
22:26:04 <OwenS> The BBFC have never permanently banned a video game IIRC
22:26:34 <OwenS> They've never classified one R18 ("For sale at registered sex shops only") either
22:26:39 <Rubidium> OwenS: I reckon no-one did shoot half a class and then him/herself at school lately in the UK
22:27:05 <Rubidium> although I wonder whether 'killer games' have an influence on toddlers and the like
22:27:14 <Xaroth> It's still funny that at ever shooting they claim whoever did it was playing violent games like counter strike
22:27:55 <Eddi|zuHause> Xaroth: it's the "98% of terrorists eat bread and drink water 24h before a bombing"
22:28:23 <Eddi|zuHause> likewise, 98% of youths have a FPS game on their computer...
22:28:48 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: well, it is safe to say someone played CS in its life if his age is < 25
22:28:57 <TrueBrain> they are just stating facts :)
22:29:11 <OwenS> Rubidium: No. In a recent murder trial someone tried to use the argument that "the killer played Manhunt" to get Manhunt banned. The killer never played Manhunt - the victim did :p
22:29:27 <OwenS> TrueBrain: If their age is < 25 and they are male :p
22:29:37 <TrueBrain> even the 'male' part is debatable :)
22:29:55 <Xaroth> lol TrueBrain: RTL7 is messed up atm
22:30:00 <Xaroth> they are fast forwarding through commercials
22:30:04 <TrueBrain> can't be bothered to turn it on
22:30:11 <TrueBrain> although that might be funny :p
22:30:21 <Xaroth> they just showed around 20 commercials in.. 30 seconds?
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22:30:29 <Rubidium> OwenS: doesn't matter; obviosuly if the victim didn't play Manhunt he wouldn't be killed
22:30:46 <TrueBrain> but why are you watching this porno movie?
22:30:48 <OwenS> Rubidium: It was too late for that argument. The papers had already ridiculed them :p
22:30:51 <OwenS> Funny how in the US recently Lawyer Jack "All FPS games are murder simulators!" Thompson was permanently disbarred
22:31:19 <TrueBrain> I remember the incident around Mass Effect
22:31:28 <TrueBrain> THERE IS PORNO IN IT! claimed a few people who never played the game
22:31:29 <OwenS> Isn't that the one where he defended the game? :p
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22:31:33 <Eddi|zuHause> RTLx with x>3 is an encrypted channel over here...
22:31:35 <TrueBrain> well .. I wouldn't call it porno what happened there ...
22:31:46 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: gymnastics ;)
22:32:04 <TrueBrain> you saw a scene which might made you to believe something was going to happen between 2 females
22:32:23 <TrueBrain> later on the person who screamed this relaly hard crawled back in her hole .. but most of the damage was done
22:32:38 <TrueBrain> because of 1 scene which gives a suggestion you can land in the news as BAD!!!!
22:33:01 <OwenS> I should produce a game I've had in my head for a while... Then, when all the complaints about the implied sex come in, retort: "You're complaining about implied sex WHEN THE MAIN CHARACTER FREAKING KILLS ABOUT 100 PEOPLE"
22:33:27 <Eddi|zuHause> hey... Nite_Owl skipped the "need to feed" part ;)
22:33:37 <TrueBrain> lol, you noticed too? :)
22:33:39 <OwenS> 100 pretty much innocent people at that :p
22:33:49 <TrueBrain> I am always amuzed by my roommates
22:33:54 <TrueBrain> they watch a movie, and start to comment on the stuppiest things
22:34:04 <TrueBrain> XMen last time .. HE! THAT IS NOT POSSIBLE
22:34:13 <TrueBrain> wtf? You are watching a movie about a guy which has bones of some kind of metal
22:34:17 <TrueBrain> and you complain a small detai lis not possible?!
22:35:14 <Eddi|zuHause> like in TBBT, where they discuss superman, supposed he could fly, catching lois lane would cut her in 3 parts?
22:35:46 <OwenS> Most people complain if Me and a friend of mine watch a movie. Me: "Why is that German soldier carrying an M16? The Germans don't use M16s, they use G36s!" Him: [On a WWII film] "Why is that tank there? It's a model from the 1950s and never participated in WWII"
22:35:53 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: briliant BOFH :)
22:36:09 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: StarTrek has that error
22:36:33 <Eddi|zuHause> star trek is full of errors ;)
22:36:42 * Rubidium wonders why so many of the perpetrators of those massacres have met with a psychatrist/psychologist over an extended period of time. Maybe we should ban those too!
22:36:48 <TrueBrain> but this is a very poor one .. one of the earliest, Spock catches Kirk or who was it
22:36:49 <Eddi|zuHause> could you specify? :p
22:36:52 <TrueBrain> while he was falling
22:37:14 <Eddi|zuHause> oh... that was 5, i think
22:37:17 <TrueBrain> OwenS: I would hit you in the face :p
22:38:09 <OwenS> I like the Voyager episode where they say they're 100,000km from a 1.5ly obstacle, and put it on screen. 1.5ly from 100,000km... Do they have any idea of the scale difference? Is the camera lens they're using 179.999 degrees or something?!
22:38:58 <OwenS> Like in the intro where they show it flying over the rings of a planet... and the reflection indicates that the ship is several hundred km across...
22:39:23 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: for your own sake, i would stop talking :p
22:39:27 <TrueBrain> OwenS: wide-lens? I don't see the problem :)
22:39:47 <OwenS> TrueBrain: Wheres the fisheye effect? ;-)
22:39:54 <TrueBrain> but okay, you have understood it wrong
22:39:58 <TrueBrain> they left a probe far far away
22:40:01 <TrueBrain> which was making the image
22:40:26 <Rubidium> OwenS: Data un-fish-eyed it!
22:40:26 <OwenS> And they "Reversed the polarity of the deflector dish" to amplify the signal to get it far enough :p
22:40:39 <OwenS> Rubidium: Voyager doesn't have Data. Seven maybe though :p
22:41:04 <TrueBrain> but okay .. ST is full of glitches
22:41:15 <TrueBrain> some are only more funny than others
22:41:28 <Rubidium> name me 1 sci-fi-ish movie that isn't full of glitches
22:41:36 <OwenS> Rubidium: Firefly, Serenity
22:41:49 <TrueBrain> OwenS: movie he said, so Serenity :p
22:42:00 <OwenS> They have some glitches, but mainly they're fine
22:42:20 <Aali> voyager does have that amazingly embarrasing episode where they break the warp 10 barrier
22:42:36 <OwenS> Aali: Aah, that ones a classic! :P
22:42:39 <Aali> with the only side-effect being a curable acceleration of evolution
22:42:45 <Aali> and yet they never try it again
22:43:01 <OwenS> Mainly, presumably multi light second communication is instantanious (But OK, perhaps they're trying not to bore us :P ) and the other where space suddenly becomes noisy (But OK, rule of cool was in effect)
22:43:26 <OwenS> (And you could use the excuse of them being in the upper atmo at the time.. though thats a bit of a stretch)
22:43:45 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
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22:47:09 <OwenS> I want a longer version of the serenity theme. In the movie it cuts off quite suddenly when a buffer panel breaks off =(
22:47:36 <Eddi|zuHause> Doctor Who is not full of glitches, it is one huge pile of deliberate inconsistency ;)
22:47:37 <TrueBrain> Serenety and Aeon Flux it will be for tonight
22:47:52 <OwenS> I have Serenity on BD. Good movie
22:48:23 <TrueBrain> I have it in 720p in .. a few minutes :p
22:48:53 <OwenS> Meh. I have it in 40GB of 1080p VC-1 (Eww on the last fact) with 7.1 15mbit/s DTS-HD Master Audio :P
22:49:32 <OwenS> Becuase the BD is encoded with VC-1? :-(
22:49:48 <OwenS> Some are MPEG-2. Very eww :p
22:50:09 <OwenS> Dunno why the extras are in SD MPEG-2 on the Serenity BD though. Wouldn't VC-1 have worked out cheaper since they already licensed it? :p
22:50:10 <Eddi|zuHause> who-in-his-right-mind...
22:50:36 <OwenS> Most HD TV shows are supplied to TV stations in compressed-the-hell-out-of MPEG-2 =(
22:50:42 <TrueBrain> but the DTS audio channel has to be nice :)
22:50:47 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: probably they just copied them from the DVD?
22:51:02 <OwenS> You know they're supplied crap when the H.264 output looks better than the input
22:51:30 <OwenS> TrueBrain: It would be if my amp supported it :P As is I get DTS 5.1 (Like DVDs), which is OK (And "accoustically transparent" anyway)
22:51:35 <TrueBrain> how can the output ever looks better than the input?
22:51:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i meant the extras, not the tv stations...
22:52:24 <OwenS> TrueBrain: Because H.264 uses a psycovisual (sp?) model which makes it model what the eyes like :p
22:52:52 <Eddi|zuHause> # U i vethed na i onnad.
22:52:54 <Eddi|zuHause> # Si boe u-dhanna.
22:52:55 <Eddi|zuHause> # Ae u-esteli, esteliach nad.
22:53:01 <TrueBrain> (I know nothing about encoders, besides the part that they .. encode :p)
22:53:15 <TrueBrain> and that they increase entropy :p
22:53:25 <TrueBrain> but that .. that is a cmopletely different story :)
22:53:51 <OwenS> TrueBrain: Basically, the part of H.264 which predicts what the next frame will be like (And the encoder then supplies differences to make it look like it should) predicts something our eyes prefer to the source material
22:54:30 <TrueBrain> bah, someone is also streaming from my hd ... IO shortage ..
22:54:41 <TrueBrain> just 8000 MiB/sec :(
22:55:10 <Eddi|zuHause> it's sad when the internet is faster than the HD :p
22:55:12 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: just reduce the throughput to the streamer!
22:55:19 <OwenS> E.G. MPEG-2 will make stuff look "blurred"... the H.264 predictor adds noise and our eyes like it
22:55:55 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: the problem is that the HD needs to seek from different places, creating a bottleneck
22:56:01 <TrueBrain> so either I have to stop it, or it doesn't matter
22:56:19 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: reducing the throughput eventually stops the stream
22:56:23 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: that calls for a better prefetch-algorithm
22:56:32 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: what would you suggest? :P
22:56:40 <Eddi|zuHause> how should i know ;)
22:56:49 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't have that kind of problems :p
22:56:58 <TrueBrain> it is an upper-class problem, I admit :)
22:57:22 <OwenS> I'd suggest bigger IO buffers :p
22:57:45 <TrueBrain> my disk itself already has 32MB :p
22:57:48 <TrueBrain> still .. there are limits :p
22:57:52 <OwenS> ZFS can create some huge ones which caused the FreeBSD kernel to panic a lot with their initial implementation from address space exhaustion :p
22:58:35 <OwenS> E.G. I'm watching a ~300mb TV episode at the moment and it's cached it all into RAM :p
22:59:00 <TrueBrain> while at least 1 person is streaming 12gb
22:59:15 <TrueBrain> then there is also a torrent active .. hmm .. :p
22:59:17 <OwenS> Yes, but it will cache hundreds of megs at a time to reduce seeks :p
23:00:04 <TrueBrain> OwenS: you can't cache writes :p (well, you can, but it has to be stored at some point .. when the cache is full, it will write at the speed of the disk :p)
23:00:49 <Eddi|zuHause> you don't have 8GB of memory? :p
23:01:15 <OwenS> Writes go into big caches also, so for 3 people streaming (2 from, 1 to) it will probably cache ~200mb each if it can and stream that out when it reaches 150mb
23:01:32 <TrueBrain> OwenS: think about write cache
23:01:35 <TrueBrain> when the cache is full
23:01:39 <TrueBrain> it HAS to write to disk
23:01:49 <TrueBrain> then the speed is the write of the disk .. no matter how big your cache is :p
23:01:57 <OwenS> TrueBrain: Yes. But everyone else has big full caches to tide them over
23:02:25 <TrueBrain> @calc 4.3 * 1024 / 120
23:02:25 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 36.6933333333
23:02:25 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: but when multiple people are accessing, the most bandwidth gets killed by seeks, not by writes...
23:02:40 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: true :)
23:02:40 <Xaroth> mono compile faster you stupid piece of GRRRRRRRRR
23:02:44 <Eddi|zuHause> so a good caching/scheduling strategy reduces the number of seeks
23:02:58 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: that absolutely, in all cases :)
23:03:06 <Xaroth> TrueBrain: it's been bloody compiling for the past hour
23:03:23 <OwenS> I would say it was the Intel approach to design ("Add cache until you cover up your issues").. but it works for filesystems :p
23:03:40 <TrueBrain> I guess my fs doesn't cache that well :p
23:03:52 <OwenS> I thought you said "compiles" lol
23:03:53 <Xaroth> apparently ubuntu doesn't do anything above 1.9 on ubuntu8.10
23:03:54 <Rubidium> OwenS: there are limits to the size of the cache
23:04:06 <Xaroth> and seeing this bug is fixed in 2.1 or something
23:04:11 <TrueBrain> torrent kill any cache btw
23:04:11 <Xaroth> i have to manually compile it to fix it :(
23:04:14 <Rubidium> like... memory size exceeding the total amount of diskspace
23:04:37 <OwenS> Rubidium: ZFS pre-reserves the diskspace :p
23:05:05 <TrueBrain> I still don't like ZFS btw
23:05:05 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: i have not witnessed that symptom myself ;)
23:05:12 <TrueBrain> dunno why really ..
23:05:16 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: haha :) Poor you :p
23:05:26 <Eddi|zuHause> apparently, my 5kB/s upload is not sufficient to kill caches :p
23:05:35 <Rubidium> isn't ZFS Oracle's file system?
23:05:51 <TrueBrain> Sun, but he, that are details :)
23:06:11 <OwenS> Linux is moving in the same direction with btrfs :p
23:06:14 <Eddi|zuHause> didn't they buy each other?
23:06:27 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: "Oracle Buys Sun"
23:06:30 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: yes, Sun bought Oracle, and Oracle bought Sun
23:06:32 <Xaroth> ugh make install takes forever as well
23:06:41 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: hence the: "that are details"
23:08:09 <Eddi|zuHause> Xaroth: is that the pedobear? ;)
23:10:36 <OwenS> Isn't it mostly "You don't piss off /b/"? :p
23:13:09 <Eddi|zuHause> google is funny... you enter "/b/" and it comes up in this order with: "wikipedia - the letter B", "wikipedia - Bela B.", "Mercedes - B-Class" ---- Results for "4chan": [...]
23:14:56 <TrueBrain> here the no one hit is: Ali B!
23:15:05 <Eddi|zuHause> (where "Bela B." is a member of the famous band "Die Ärzte")
23:15:45 <TrueBrain> hmm .. results on /b/ are removed due to child porn
23:16:07 <Sacro> TrueBrain: they can early leave it there
23:17:28 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: it says here 3 results are removed, but it doesn't tell why
23:17:37 <TrueBrain> clicking the link shows you
23:19:01 * TrueBrain is happy his emulator works :) Lalalaaaaaaa :)
23:20:00 <TrueBrain> it suprises me .. now Bing is here, Google all of a sudden comes with a new search method
23:20:34 <TrueBrain> haven't used Bing yet .. hmm ..
23:20:36 <Eddi|zuHause> we have a saying... "Konkurrenz belebt das Geschäft"
23:21:01 <TrueBrain> yeah, but Google had this big mouth
23:21:04 <TrueBrain> that they were there for the public
23:21:09 <TrueBrain> always inventing new things
23:21:25 <TrueBrain> in reality .. they were standing still like any other, till the time someone came with a (better) alternative
23:21:29 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but a monopoly has that effect, even if you actively work against it
23:21:48 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not necessarily the fault of google
23:22:07 <Eddi|zuHause> sometimes you need to view things with the eyes of an outsider to get forward
23:22:16 <Eddi|zuHause> if you have a monopoly, there is no outsider
23:22:20 <TrueBrain> somehow Apple manages it to keep pushing forward
23:22:27 <OwenS> And from a competitive point of view... If you're in the lead, you withhold your stuff until someone comes close to it so they odn't take their ideas from you
23:22:36 <OwenS> The iPhone is hardly a monopoly
23:22:45 <TrueBrain> OwenS: but Google claimed they were not doing that
23:22:54 <TrueBrain> OwenS: I meant iPod -> iTouch -> iPhone
23:23:08 <TrueBrain> despite the fact they are markt leader in mp3 players, they still keep pushing the limits
23:23:15 <OwenS> the iPod Touch is just a stripped iPhone
23:23:33 <TrueBrain> but not in the order of development
23:24:04 <OwenS> Also, Apple are in a different type of market: They're innovating so people buy new iPods. Google... don't need to make people buy new googles ;-)
23:24:21 <TrueBrain> true; yet I am disapointed in Google
23:24:25 <TrueBrain> they always said they wouldn't ...
23:24:33 <TrueBrain> we were used that Intel held back
23:24:36 <TrueBrain> till AMD 'stole' it :p
23:24:53 <Markk> Google is testing a new searchengine though
23:24:56 <OwenS> TrueBrain: Actually no. Intel just went down a dead end and aimed for high clockspeeds to wow punters :p
23:25:01 <Markk> ww2.sandbox.google.com i think
23:25:09 <TrueBrain> Markk: that was the start of this conversation, tnx for paying attention ;)
23:25:22 <TrueBrain> OwenS: it was before that :p
23:25:22 <OwenS> high clockspeeds at the expense of instructions/clock :p
23:25:45 <OwenS> TrueBrain: Huh? AMD caught Intel off guard twice, with the original Athlon and with the Athlon 64
23:26:09 <TrueBrain> you do know the history of AMD, not?
23:26:18 <TrueBrain> let me try to find a good page about it ...
23:30:19 <TrueBrain> bah, can't find a good page, only snippets .. it comes down to: AMD has a license from Intel to use its stuff .. AMD released a chipset based on it that was newer than the Intel chipset on the market
23:30:37 <TrueBrain> this because Intel had it developed and stuff, but didn't want to release it, because it would keep people buying their stuff ever 1.5 years
23:30:59 <TrueBrain> Intel was via this way making more profit (over our backs)
23:31:07 <TrueBrain> that is what I was refering to
23:31:22 <TrueBrain> Intel had a N MHz years before we saw it .. not because it was not ready, but because they were trying to keep the prices high
23:31:33 <TrueBrain> (after all, releasing a faster CPU every month is not good for the price :p)
23:31:46 <TrueBrain> AMD took that 'privileges' away because of some bad contracts and some lawsuits :p
23:31:52 <OwenS> I don't really care; I've never bought Intel CPUs anyway aside from my Atom :p
23:32:46 <TrueBrain> up to 64bit, AMDs were just Intels (well, the technique and shit)
23:32:55 <TrueBrain> 64bit CPUs are the first things AMD designed
23:33:10 <OwenS> The K5/K6/K7/K8 family was all AMD designed
23:33:13 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
23:33:21 <TrueBrain> 'designed' is a big word
23:33:28 <TrueBrain> the x86 technoligy came straight from Intel
23:33:32 <TrueBrain> they never did a thing for that
23:33:42 <OwenS> The Am486 and such were Intel CPUs produced by AMD yes, but the K5 and later was custom built from the ground up
23:33:49 <TrueBrain> not from the ground up
23:33:56 <TrueBrain> just custom build :)
23:34:09 <OwenS> They were; Intel never granted them the right to use their layout & circuitry; just their patents
23:34:11 <TrueBrain> but okay .. it is also thanks to that, that x86 is so common :)
23:34:23 <OwenS> Thats a good thing? x86 sucks :p
23:34:37 <TrueBrain> might be, but having all those different shit is even worse :)
23:34:42 <TrueBrain> ther eis a reason Apple is using x86 too now :)
23:34:49 <OwenS> If we standardized on ARM it would rock :p
23:34:58 <TrueBrain> I rather have we did computers all over
23:35:03 <TrueBrain> like the russian did
23:35:09 <TrueBrain> (that is, -1/0/1 per bit)
23:35:16 <TrueBrain> tribits? What was the name ..)
23:35:38 <OwenS> With the K5 AMD had a crap in house design team; therefore it sucked. With the K6 (Or was it K7?) AMD picked up DEC's Alpha design team on the cheap and started producing better designs
23:36:22 <OwenS> Thats why early AMD CPUs used the Alpha's bus :p
23:37:03 <Eddi|zuHause> my advanced algorithsms professor was into coins, and he once calculated that a trinary coin system (i.e. coins of values 3^n) would be the best in a cash based pay X, return Y system
23:37:33 <TrueBrain> trinary, thank you, that was the term I was looking for :)
23:37:44 <TrueBrain> 'trit' as alternative for 'bit' :)
23:37:46 <OwenS> Yeah, it was the K7 the alpha guys took over; Socket/Slot A used the Alpha ev8 bus :p
23:38:02 <TrueBrain> trit based systems are various of factors faster
23:38:09 <TrueBrain> but because it was russian, it never became anything real
23:38:43 <OwenS> They're also horrible to implement in logic because transistors don't like that kind of thing :p
23:38:52 <Eddi|zuHause> politics getting in the way of development... not the first time...
23:39:09 <TrueBrain> OwenS: trits produce faster results, better results, less power consumption, ....
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23:39:27 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: what? it's dead simple to pass +5V, 0V or -5V through an electric circuit
23:39:35 <OwenS> Not with MOSFET based logic (I.E. current IC processes)
23:39:49 <TrueBrain> just because we are so used to binary shit .....
23:39:53 <OwenS> You'd need two lines to make trinary logic work fast
23:40:09 <TrueBrain> OwenS: all designs I have seen, don't require that
23:40:27 <TrueBrain> just you have to stop thinking in bits ;)
23:40:31 <Uberzten> someone planning a competive ottd server?
23:40:32 <Xaroth> time to sleep while machine compiles mono svn head :/
23:40:43 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: good luck :)
23:40:43 <Uberzten> im dying to playing on a good one
23:40:43 <Eddi|zuHause> you need an additional layer for the -5V power supply, but the rest is simple...
23:41:01 <Xaroth> TrueBrain: i'll need it if i ever want to get this damned thing to work again
23:41:09 <Eddi|zuHause> Uberzten: this channel is more about development than playing...
23:41:10 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: hehe :) And send EA a message? :p
23:41:19 <Xaroth> meh, first chat with boss about it
23:41:20 <TrueBrain> Uberzten: and on this time, not many will feel like a game .. but who knows ;)
23:41:28 <Uberzten> develope a competive server
23:41:47 <Uberzten> WHERE IS KURT? :(:(:
23:41:52 <OwenS> Not really... Your transistor counts go up, leakage current goes up.. Terneray logic is horid on CMOS processes
23:41:58 <Eddi|zuHause> he never was here, we don't know.
23:42:07 <TrueBrain> OwenS: in tinary, leakage goes DOWN :)
23:42:20 <Eddi|zuHause> there was a project called "open hard goal", but i think it died
23:42:45 <OwenS> TrueBrain: Has anyone implemented a trinary circuit on CMOS?
23:42:45 <Uberzten> i tryed to follow it
23:43:08 <TrueBrain> sorry, I Thought your 'leakage' was unrelated to cmos
23:43:11 <TrueBrain> as that I wouldn't know
23:43:22 <Uberzten> but it seemed like they didnt care that much about it
23:43:43 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i'm afraid you're out of luck then...
23:44:04 <Uberzten> and what is these guys talking about?
23:44:22 <OwenS> TrueBrain: Leakage is a big issue for CMOS; It's predecessor logic types (NMOS and PMOS were much worse and much more limted); their predecessor (Bipolar Junction Transistors) was current driven and absolutely abysmal for it. But with CMOS, it's very efficient when saturated and terrible inbetween
23:44:23 <Uberzten> computer or irl electronics?
23:44:33 <Eddi|zuHause> electric circuits using tri-state bits
23:44:56 <Eddi|zuHause> spinoff from google reacting on bing ;)
23:45:08 <TrueBrain> OwenS: so your claim is that when using CMOS for binary, it should be used for ternary? :)
23:45:40 <TrueBrain> (sorry, I miss why you want CMOS involved in this conversation :p)
23:45:42 <Uberzten> i think it should be used for quadnary
23:46:12 <OwenS> TrueBrain: As I said, the other available technologies are worse. NMOS and PMOS are dead (Useless for analog anyway; beaten by CMOS for digital), Bipolar is only used in analog circuits because it consumes lots of current and can suffer latch-up and thermal runaway
23:46:26 <TrueBrain> OwenS: read up on ternary components
23:46:31 <TrueBrain> they are much more efficient in general
23:47:19 <TrueBrain> either way, ternary development stopped somwhere in the 60s
23:47:26 <TrueBrain> I believe there were some attempts in the 70s
23:47:34 <TrueBrain> and now it is just all down to theoretic
23:47:36 <OwenS> OK... So no real work on it since the transistor :p
23:47:38 <Uberzten> did you wikipedia it?
23:47:43 <TrueBrain> simply because the market is dominated by binary
23:47:51 <TrueBrain> OwenS: enough theory about it :)
23:48:07 <TrueBrain> to give a simple example
23:48:21 <TrueBrain> (just a random public document)
23:48:44 <OwenS> The other thing is ternary logic has bad noise immunity relatively. Which is a real problem with 90nm and smaller processes
23:49:09 <TrueBrain> OwenS: from what I have read in the last few years, ternary has LESS noise problems
23:49:23 <TrueBrain> the reason it would be so useful ..
23:49:37 <TrueBrain> even for that time (the 60s), ternary was faster than binary
23:49:49 <OwenS> Ternary involves having transistors on, half on or off. half on is a place transistors don't like being. Thermonic Valves are less picky
23:50:20 <TrueBrain> fun fact: they have new binary transistors, which don't leak at all :p
23:50:49 <OwenS> Thats very impressive bcause thats theoretically impossible. Unless they're made of vacuum. Which they can't be
23:51:41 <TrueBrain> you think WAY too much inside a small box :)
23:51:50 <Uberzten> what if it was made of wood?
23:51:57 <TrueBrain> then it would be heavy
23:52:03 <OwenS> A transistor is a semiconductor electonic component. An optical switch should be named something else
23:52:16 <TrueBrain> they are called optical transistors, sorry, can't help that
23:52:19 <TrueBrain> btw, hits quantum field
23:52:22 <TrueBrain> but that is besides the point :p
23:52:42 <Uberzten> semiconductor.. hmm.. it think i saw that word in civilization III
23:53:07 <TrueBrain> either way, OwenS, read a few good documentation and papers about ternary computer
23:53:09 <TrueBrain> you will be suprised
23:53:18 <TrueBrain> don't assume too much about what would happen and what would be needed
23:53:36 <Eddi|zuHause> Uberzten: possibly you meant supraconductor
23:53:39 <TrueBrain> remember that we live in a binary world, and many of our solutions are inside tha tworld. Ternary gives a whole different world with completely different solutions :)
23:53:46 <OwenS> I'll admit they have advantages implemented with valves. But I don't imagine us going back to machines which have an MBTF of a few hours :p
23:54:07 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: You mean superconductor? :p
23:54:11 <TrueBrain> just because in the 60s we decided to go binary, doesn't mean we wouldn't have found perfect solutions for ternary :)
23:54:28 <Uberzten> is that something else?
23:54:42 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: dunno, it's called "Supraleiter" in german
23:54:59 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: Superconductor = conductor with zero resistance
23:55:01 <TrueBrain> so Superconductor ;)
23:55:06 <TrueBrain> OwenS: _almost_ zero :p
23:55:08 <Uberzten> dunno what a conductor is in norwegian
23:55:09 <TrueBrain> if we are nitpicking :p
23:55:24 <OwenS> TrueBrain: OK, infinitely close to zero :p
23:55:30 <TrueBrain> as zero would be BAD!
23:55:35 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: i know what it is.
23:55:42 <OwenS> I'll admit perfect superconductivity occurs only at absolute zero. And you can never reach absolute zero :p
23:55:49 <Uberzten> omgasskickinguberconductor
23:55:55 <Uberzten> would that be something?
23:56:06 <TrueBrain> OwenS: I hope we never reach it :)
23:56:40 <Eddi|zuHause> fun fact, wherever "über" appears in an american TV show, it's translated as "super" in german :p
23:56:42 <OwenS> TrueBrain: Me too. But room temperature (as opposed to high temperature) superconductors would be nice :p
23:56:49 <TrueBrain> at my university, they do a lot of levitation experiments .. pretty funny :p
23:56:55 <Uberzten> can we talk about something i understand, im boored
23:57:04 <TrueBrain> didn't they made progress in that depertmant?
23:57:19 <TrueBrain> so because you are bored we have to lower our level to your plain, Uberzten?
23:57:21 <TrueBrain> sounds egocentric :)
23:57:22 <OwenS> They're getting hotter. But I'd appreciate something which won't kill my arm :p
23:57:33 <TrueBrain> define: kill your arm?
23:57:35 <Uberzten> yeah, i think thats fair, im am the noobie here
23:57:37 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: i believe they're somewhere near 100K currently
23:57:39 <TrueBrain> a knife killsy our arm :)
23:57:49 <OwenS> TrueBrain: Freeze it non-restorably :p
23:57:53 <Eddi|zuHause> which is not necessarily closing up on room temperature yet :p
23:58:33 <OwenS> When I was at Duhram university's physics department they were (after the superconductivity demo) giving out liquid N² cooled ice lollies, lol
23:58:37 <TrueBrain> you can touch liquid nitrogen
23:58:41 <TrueBrain> still it doesn't kill your arm (instantly)
23:59:01 <OwenS> TrueBrain: Plunging your arm into it is probably not wise :p
23:59:04 <TrueBrain> as 'demo' we show first graders what you can do with it
23:59:10 <TrueBrain> let them take of their rings
23:59:10 <Uberzten> OwenS how did they taste?
23:59:10 <Eddi|zuHause> wait... it doesn't work like on TV?!?
23:59:13 <TrueBrain> put it over their hands
23:59:15 <TrueBrain> no problem what so ever
23:59:22 <OwenS> Uberzten: Like normal ones. Just more likely to stick to your toungue
23:59:41 <TrueBrain> just never ever let them close their hands
23:59:53 <OwenS> Yeah, I know people can put liquid nitrogen in their mouth to create a smoke breathing effect. Just don't swallow it :p
23:59:55 <TrueBrain> it is cool when it touches dust (on the floor)
continue to next day ⏵
