IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-06-30
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00:53:41 <TaggartTrans> time to sleep, goodnight, but you are welcome to comment here on irc, i will read tomorrow.
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01:33:23 <LadyHawk> anyone ever tried to make the towns fill the map?
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01:48:46 <Korenn> LadyHawk: yes. with a single town, even
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03:21:42 <welshdragoneee> which version of openttd do i need to download for the latest version of ubuntu?
03:21:58 <welshdragoneee> 0.7.1 isn't in the repo's
03:24:16 <welshdragoneee> oh, it's ok, found it
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06:33:07 <petern> added 2134 changesets with 11279 changes to 961 files
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07:45:51 <dihedral> welshdragon, you can just download the 32bit or 64bit generic linux version (depending on your system)
07:45:57 <dihedral> untar that and run it
07:46:08 <dihedral> you do not need to use apt-get to install openttd ;-)
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08:35:45 <blathijs> dihedral: But using the .deb version is way more convenient when upgrading
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08:36:34 <dihedral> rm -rf openttd; wget ....; tar -xzf openttd...tar.gz
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08:54:01 <petern> how do i call an lua function :s
08:54:15 <petern> i seem to only find examples for executing a complete lua file
08:55:36 <Noldo> petern: why are you doing lua?
08:57:36 <SpComb> petern: ensure it's on the top of the stack, and then lua_call or lua_pcall depending on what context you're calling it from
08:57:57 <SpComb> petern: for executing a complete file, you just first use lua_load to push it as a chunk onto the stack, and then lua_pcall
08:58:29 <SpComb> so it just depends on how you want to find the function
08:59:01 <petern> luaL_loadfile(m_state, name);
08:59:08 <petern> lua_getglobal(m_state, "init");
08:59:13 <petern> if (lua_pcall(m_state, 0, 0, 0) != 0) {
09:00:01 <petern> Error running function "init": attempt to call a nil value
09:14:51 <petern> okay, works with luaL_dofile()
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09:48:27 <LadyHawk> does station rating for passengers/mail affect city growth rate?
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10:01:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r16695 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files):
10:01:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-06-30 10:00:57
10:01:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: japanese - 6 fixed by nex259 (6)
10:01:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: norwegian_bokmal - 8 fixed by jankmi (8)
10:01:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: portuguese - 9 fixed by SnowFlake (9)
10:01:43 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: serbian - 111 fixed by etran (111)
10:01:43 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: spanish - 1 fixed by erregerre (1)
10:03:07 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +o TrueBrain
10:03:18 *** TrueBrain changes topic to "0.7.1 | Website: *.openttd.org (BaNaNaS: bananas, Translator: translator, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs, Revision log: vcs, Release info: finger) | #openttd.notice for SVN notices | UTF-8 please | No Unauthorised Bots | English only :D"
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10:15:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r16696 /trunk/src/lang/ (41 files in 2 dirs):
10:15:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Change: make order of pragmas identical for all languages (and to what strgen defines it to be)
10:15:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Change: make order of cases identical to what the case-pragma indicates
10:18:24 <dihedral> wow - i did not know 'translators' could do that kind of editing ^^
10:19:25 <TrueBrain> you don't know a lot of things :p :p
10:19:28 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r16697 /trunk/src/lang/ (brazilian_portuguese.txt catalan.txt norwegian_bokmal.txt): -Fix (r16696): don't silently introduce old ##case for some languages
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10:26:40 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16698 /trunk/ (docs/HOWTO_compile_lang_files.txt readme.txt): -Document: update documentation pointing to the old translator tool.
10:38:37 <TrueBrain> and now, now it is time for some cake
10:40:42 <Eddi|zuHause> the cake is a lie.
10:40:42 <petern> so is it officially retired now?
10:42:01 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: and if you now would be so kind to step into the fire, then we can celebrate with cake later on
10:43:30 <Rubidium> shouldn't something first come out of beta to actually be able to retire?
10:44:32 <Eddi|zuHause> duke nukem forever?
10:44:40 <Eddi|zuHause> that didn't even get into beta :p
10:47:27 <dihedral> <Eddi|zuHause> the cake is a lie. <- there are no spoons?
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12:36:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16699 /trunk/src/video/sdl_v.cpp: -Fix [FS#3001]: if SDL fails to allocate a surface due to it being too large (and SDL doesn't crash!) fall back to another video driver.
12:37:21 <Eddi|zuHause> there are other video drivers?
12:38:31 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16700 /trunk/src/ (music/allegro_m.cpp sound/allegro_s.cpp video/allegro_v.cpp): -Fix: if allegro fails to start or fails open a window or sound card fall back to another driver
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12:38:35 <Rubidium> the crappy osx stuff
12:38:57 <Eddi|zuHause> it'd be silly if it falls back to null or dedicated driver...
12:39:40 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: my opinion is that it is better than segfaulting
12:40:24 <Eddi|zuHause> it's better than segfaulting, but silently starting dedicated is worse than shouting "no video driver found"
12:41:18 <Eddi|zuHause> in case you don't remember the increased support demand for configure non-silently announcing that it's going to build a dedicated binary, but people still ignoring the announcement
12:42:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16701 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Fix [FS#3001]: limit the screen's resolution to 65535x65535 so the dirty pixels stay within bounds of a 32 bits integer
12:43:28 <Chruker> oh noes, my really really wide screenshots
12:44:06 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: but how to shout to an user that doesn't look at stdout/stderr?
12:44:16 <Chruker> Just need 33 more monitors
12:44:27 <Rubidium> when SDL/Allegro don't work?
12:45:00 <Chruker> Does it put a notice in some system logfile?
12:45:00 <Rubidium> it's the exact same issue for missing files on unixy platforms
12:45:28 <Rubidium> Chruker: is that in any way cross platform?
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12:47:06 <Chruker> I have no idea, but arent there any other windows-only or unix-only blocks in the source?
12:47:48 <Rubidium> 'unix only' is more 'not Windows'
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12:49:01 <Sacro> this is why c# is better
12:49:21 <Sacro> Console.WriteLine("Blargh");
12:49:57 <Chruker> Are there yet C# compilers for other OS'es than windows?
12:50:14 <Sacro> Mono works on Linux, OSX, Solaris
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12:50:20 <Sacro> DotGNU works on many more
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12:50:39 <Chruker> Fully or mostly compatible also?
12:50:44 <Rubidium> uhm, C# (Microsoft) or C# (That standard that isn't like Microsoft's version)?
12:51:17 <Sacro> Rubidium: they are the same
12:53:03 <TinoDidriksen> Chruker, if you want to do fancy GUI then C# is not that portable. But for cmdline tools and headless apps, C# is very portable.
12:53:04 <Eddi|zuHause> Sacro: there's a warning to not rely on mono/c# because of increased possibility of patent threats
12:53:18 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: ignore stallman
12:53:24 <Sacro> there's as much a threat to GNUStep
12:53:40 <Rubidium> Sacro: Microsoft and standards, even if they make them theirselves, is a very murky area
12:54:00 <Rubidium> and I am FAR from certain that MS obeys it's own ECMA standard
12:54:12 <Eddi|zuHause> "Standard" and "Implementation" always differ... microsoft or not...
12:54:14 <TrueBrain> MS and standards? That would be a first, yes ;)
12:54:32 <Sacro> Mono has no issues with stuff that I do
12:55:09 <Eddi|zuHause> if the bugs are deliberate or not... if in doubt, people will adapt their programs to the implementation, not to the standard
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12:55:45 <Eddi|zuHause> primary example: web pages vs. IE
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12:56:27 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: but that is "some else's standard" vs "their 'standard'"
12:56:40 <Rubidium> I rather use OOXML as example
12:57:08 <Eddi|zuHause> Microsoft C++...
12:57:46 <Sacro> C# is done right so far
12:57:57 <TinoDidriksen> They have no incompatible extensions to regular C++. Managed C++ and C++/CLR sure, but nobody uses those.
12:59:38 <Eddi|zuHause> TinoDidriksen: i have a documentation for a c++ compiler frontend for different dialects, and there's an insanely long list of dialect changes depending if in "microsoft" mode, or in "microsoft-bugs" mode
13:00:01 <TinoDidriksen> That was the olden days before VC7.1...VC6 was horrible.
13:00:09 <glx> that reminds me MS Java vs Sun Java
13:00:29 <Eddi|zuHause> glx: i thought they were actually convicted for that :p
13:00:40 <TinoDidriksen> I use MSVC++ to write cross-platform C++, and have no issues at all compiling the exact same code on MSVC++, GCC, etc.
13:01:22 <glx> TinoDidriksen: if you want a "memory safe" code, check it on linux :)
13:01:28 <Eddi|zuHause> TinoDidriksen: yes, if you try to ship around the incompatibilities, there is a common subset that works in most of the compilers
13:02:32 <TinoDidriksen> There are no incompatabilities to speak of. Even MS's stdext::hash_map was drop-in compatible with GCC's __gnu_cxx::hash_map
13:03:07 <glx> iterators have some differences
13:03:20 <TinoDidriksen> glx, I do check on Linux with valgrind. But MSVC++ is just great to develop in.
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13:04:02 <glx> we had nice bugs in noai api because of small differences with iterators
13:04:33 <glx> worked well on linux/gcc, segfault with msvc
13:04:35 <TinoDidriksen> #define _SECURE_SCL 0 ?
13:04:52 <Rubidium> heh, there's a MSVC++ that actually is able to find all occurences of a string in a subdirectory?
13:05:32 <Rubidium> it's probably better than Windows' built-in search in files tool though
13:05:35 <TinoDidriksen> The IDE? You can do regexp search across the whole project.
13:06:14 <glx> intellisense doesn't like openttd :)
13:06:26 <Rubidium> TinoDidriksen: you haven't noticed that the IDE doesn't always return *all* occurences of a searched item?
13:06:56 <TinoDidriksen> Intellisense does needs a kick in the arse every now and then; you often have to delete the *.ncb files to reset it.
13:07:01 <Sacro> I use Visual Assist X for C++
13:07:27 <TinoDidriksen> Rubidium, no, haven't had that problem.
13:07:52 <Rubidium> TinoDidriksen: lucky you ;)
13:09:07 <Sacro> seems to have source code in it
13:09:15 <niblet> Hi. I am trying to develop a modded version compatible with 7.1. I am trying to limit a citys growth based on certain parametres, how can I achieve this without causing desync?
13:09:30 <Sacro> niblet: 7.1 isn't out yet
13:09:34 <TrueBrain> somehow the answer: not, comes to mind ;)
13:09:52 <TrueBrain> 0.7.1 he means, and you know that Sacro :)
13:09:52 <TinoDidriksen> I'll admit there are some things in MSVC++ you have to work around (such as 2 very important defines, #define _SECURE_SCL 0 and #define _CRT_SECURE_NO_DEPRECATE 1), but once done, it's the best IDE out there and doesn't force you to write Microsoft specific code in any way.
13:09:59 <Sacro> TrueBrain: i have old source :o
13:10:12 <TrueBrain> sorry for leaving you all alone in that channel :)
13:10:34 <Sacro> this source is oso old is it has an 'idascripts' folder
13:10:49 <TrueBrain> Sacro: IDA .. hmm .. useful tool :)
13:10:50 <Sacro> I think this is the one that ludde released first
13:11:07 <Sacro> TrueBrain: this is the kind of thing that should be archived properley :P
13:11:16 <TrueBrain> Sacro: so give it :)
13:11:22 <TrueBrain> we only have binaries from 0.1.1
13:11:27 <Rubidium> Sacro: where did you get that zip?
13:11:33 <Sacro> Rubidium: ludde perhaps :\
13:11:41 <TrueBrain> 0.1.4 was the first source release we have indexed
13:11:56 <Sacro> looks to be Windows only
13:12:05 <TrueBrain> 0.1.4 was the first MacOSX compatible version
13:12:08 <TrueBrain> the rest is Windows only
13:12:55 <TrueBrain> 0.1.1 is from 2004-03-14
13:13:19 <Sacro> LICENCE.TXT is 1999-02-03
13:13:20 * welshdragon shoves Sacro in the shower
13:13:34 <TrueBrain> did he work on it that long?!
13:13:46 <Sacro> he posted the url in here ages ago and I snagged a copy
13:13:55 <Sacro> I think it was from him and not from Bjarni
13:13:56 <Rubidium> he just copied the license from something else I guess
13:14:51 <Sacro> looks like development started december 02
13:15:07 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: give it already! :P
13:15:47 <welshdragon> niblet, please don't
13:15:53 <Sacro> niblet: make sure you pass it to clients>
13:18:06 <Sacro> niblet: anything that needs changing
13:20:14 <niblet> and where/how would I mod the code in an order that lets me pass city info on to the clients?
13:21:34 <Ammler> are you able to compile it?
13:21:51 <Sacro> it was written for the VC6 compiler
13:26:42 <niblet> so assuming I cant acctually limit a towns growth without causing desyncs.. is there a way I can delete new buildings afterwards from the server side and relaying this to the clients somehow?
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13:31:28 <petern> 13:53 < Eddi|zuHause> Sacro: there's a warning to not rely on mono/c# because of increased possibility of patent threats <-- from a known free software zealot
13:31:29 <Rubidium> hmm, 0.1 doens't do unix-ish yet :(
13:39:52 <TrueBrain> niblet: OpenTTD is not that kind of game :) Clients do all the logic too .. the server only sends out commands made by users ... so you are a bit out of luck there :) (well .. modify the client too, is one solution ;))
13:40:55 <niblet> not a very good solution though
13:42:32 <niblet> I thought there were some random fragments in the town expansion code. I therefor assumed only the server ran this code and then passed on the changes to the clients
13:43:05 <TrueBrain> that is not how OpenTTD works :)
13:43:18 <TrueBrain> random-seed on clients and server are in sync
13:43:24 <TrueBrain> (and a desync happens when they no longer are :p)
13:43:34 <niblet> doesnt sound very random
13:43:43 <TrueBrain> what do you tihnk a random is?
13:43:50 <TrueBrain> you believe a computer generated 'random' number is truly random?
13:44:12 <Rubidium> can you prove something is random?
13:44:27 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: nope :) I can only give you the entropy of a randomize function :)
13:44:44 <Rubidium> and have you heard of "it's too random to be random"?
13:45:12 <TrueBrain> even humans don't create random numbers :)
13:45:18 <TrueBrain> well .. not truly random anyway :p
13:45:44 <planetmaker> There's a "nice" article on the last Iranian elections.
13:45:47 <TrueBrain> (for a number under the 10, 3 and 7 are most used)
13:45:53 <planetmaker> The vote counts in some districts are "too random" :)
13:46:03 <planetmaker> especially too many 7 :)
13:58:43 <el[cube]> is anyone here familiar with the OHG mod?
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14:03:36 <Noldo> 31 pages of statistical analysis, a bit too much for me
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14:24:26 <Eddi|zuHause> Noldo: it's actually pretty easy... benford's law says "most numbers start with a 1", and then it analyses the spread of the votes, and comes to the conclusion that there are too few 1's and too many 7's
14:27:42 <Noldo> Eddi|zuHause: well that's about the same as a book where it takes dozen of pages for a guy to pick which pipe to smoke
14:29:24 <Eddi|zuHause> Noldo: it also tries to associate these inconsistencies to methods of changing 1's to 2's to increase one person's votes and the abundance of 7's to reducing the other person's votes
14:30:57 <Eddi|zuHause> <TrueBrain> (for a number under the 10, 3 and 7 are most used) <- i'm not sure if that is only when typing, there it can be related to finger positions on the keyboard
14:32:00 <Noldo> Eddi|zuHause: I think that's tested by repeating "please give me a number between 3 and 7" to enough people
14:34:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i have never heard anyone asking for 0 to 10
14:35:02 <Eddi|zuHause> 1 to 10 is common...
14:35:16 <Eddi|zuHause> the majority of the world is not computer scientist ;)
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14:45:03 <Noldo> now I have to wonder what would the results be if it was 0-9 instead of 1-10
14:52:58 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: no, not while typing: when someone asks you to pick a number between 1 and 10, try 3 first, then 7
14:53:11 <TrueBrain> you have a very high chance of guessing it right
14:53:13 <TrueBrain> Noldo: 0 is not a number :)
14:53:40 <Eddi|zuHause> 0 is the most natural number, but people generally do not believe me...
14:54:01 <TrueBrain> for the longest time in history, 0 didn't exist :)
14:54:20 * Rubidium wonders why people dislike me chosing pi
14:54:26 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, because it is too obvious ;)
14:54:32 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: for the longest time in history humans didn't exist
14:54:49 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: that is not true, that is pre-history
14:55:06 <Eddi|zuHause> history starts with the appearance of mankind
14:55:12 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: only proving my point here :)
14:56:01 <Eddi|zuHause> history can only lead as far back as there were people who could tell a story
14:56:26 <TrueBrain> so dinos don't exist? :p
14:56:38 <SirSquidness> Eddi|zuHause: are we not telling stories through uncovering stuff from millions of years ago?
14:56:41 <Belugas> give me a note between C and B
14:57:16 <TrueBrain> (high B with low C ;)
14:57:48 <Eddi|zuHause> (that is actually true, in the german musical notation, H is the note directly between B and C)
15:00:45 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i did not say there are not stories about it, but at that time there were no story tellers
15:01:51 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: the times ARE called "prehistoric"
15:01:58 <Eddi|zuHause> as in "before history"
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15:26:25 <niblet> does anyone have a solution for a workaround to my problem?
15:26:33 <TrueBrain> niblet: update the client too
15:26:54 <niblet> it has to be possible to connect to the server with standard clients
15:27:05 <TrueBrain> then you are out of luck .. but we told you that already :)
15:27:14 <niblet> but I digged some and I've seen it done
15:27:18 <TrueBrain> well .. maybe if you ask again in, say, 2 hours, we changed our minds .. I wouldn't bet on it though ..
15:27:47 <niblet> check out "ex's goal - city mania" server
15:27:55 <niblet> if no goods is delivered to a town it stops growing
15:28:04 <Markk> Much better then a owner of a lonely heart
15:28:11 <niblet> and it works with 0.7.1 client
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15:30:22 <niblet> it can be done.. somehow
15:30:35 <TrueBrain> well, good luck with it :)
15:31:20 <SmatZ> [17:30:30] <TrueBrain> [15:15:07] SmatZ: give it already! :P <== what happened?
15:31:27 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: wrong name :)
15:31:33 <TrueBrain> Sacro .. SmatZ .. so close, with <tab> ;)
15:32:16 <TrueBrain> didn't want to wake you from your beauty sleep
15:32:22 <TrueBrain> (although you are already pretty enough :))
15:33:10 <Rubidium> niblet: we'd be very interested in how ex does 'it', if he actually does 'it'
15:33:20 <niblet> he does.. Im on the server. it works :)
15:33:35 <TrueBrain> it is a magic bit he flipped
15:33:47 <niblet> he somehow deletes a house after its built if no goods is delivered last month
15:33:59 <niblet> and only new houses.. not old ones that gets rebuilt into something else
15:35:11 <TrueBrain> its a kind of .. magic!
15:35:16 <Rubidium> the only logical explanation for that would be a separate company that does those things
15:35:22 <TrueBrain> a nice AI can do that ;)
15:35:28 <niblet> there is no extra company
15:35:48 <Rubidium> niblet: then ask him, not us who don't know and are just guessing
15:36:05 <niblet> he's not around or I would
15:36:39 <niblet> I dont think an "ai" company would work long term either.. the rating would just drop until it couldnt delete anymore
15:36:54 <TrueBrain> then the server just restarts the AI company :)
15:36:59 <TrueBrain> that the server can do! :)
15:37:41 <Rubidium> or it's the fact that it's a tropical map which requires water+food for towns
15:38:05 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: ssttt .. that would be silly!
15:38:15 <niblet> yes, but he modded it.
15:38:32 <niblet> once u reach higher population he added requirements to how much food, water and goods u need to deliver for growth not to stop
15:38:51 <niblet> I just havent figured out how he does the growth stopping part
15:46:35 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd
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15:52:59 * Belugas send an "Y" and a "O" to niblet
15:58:01 <Eddi|zuHause> never heard of this mystical "U" person?
15:58:22 <Eddi|zuHause> it's some kind of god(dess)...
15:58:32 <Eddi|zuHause> "i believe in U", you hear people often say
16:00:47 <niblet> Eddi: I've never heard that O_o
16:00:56 <niblet> must be a local demi God
16:01:41 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
16:02:53 * niblet sends a used diaper to Belugas
16:05:04 <niblet> is there any way to do actions with a nonexisting company?
16:06:09 <niblet> I see you have given this some serious thought Eddi
16:06:37 * Belugas sends an integer to niblet, you half-Byte!
16:07:05 *** [alt]buster has joined #openttd
16:07:35 * niblet sends an out of sync packet to Belugas disconnecting him from the server
16:07:51 <TrueBrain> stupid pizza guy dropped my pizza on the way ..
16:09:30 <Rubidium> "oh, you didn't order a Pizza Trottoire?"
16:09:57 <Eddi|zuHause> "Trottoire" doesn't sound very italian ;)
16:10:27 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: neither does Hawai
16:10:42 <TrueBrain> it does sound French :)
16:11:31 <Rubidium> new owner... it's now called a 'Pizza Marciapiede'
16:13:04 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster
16:20:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16702 /trunk/src/ (driver.cpp video/null_v.h): -Change: don't implicitly fall back to the null/dedicated (video) drivers, but show an error message that no driver could be found. You can still explicitly start the null drivers thought.
16:41:59 *** |Jeroen| has joined #openttd
16:46:53 <LadyHawk> i don't like these aircraft
16:47:13 <LadyHawk> reliability 90%, each one costs 10 mil
16:47:35 <LadyHawk> they make 2.5 mil a pop per year
16:47:49 <LadyHawk> but i have to replace 1-2 every year cuz they keep crashing
16:48:09 <niblet> go with trains instead then :)
16:48:18 <Aali> 90% reliability does not mean they have a 10% chance of crashing at every landing
16:48:34 <LadyHawk> i dont have room to put any tracks
16:48:35 <planetmaker> 0.7% actually. Unless you have too small airports.
16:48:39 <LadyHawk> the map is like 1/2 town
16:51:40 <LadyHawk> i like how this 2x2 grid town road placement is done
16:51:50 <LadyHawk> each and every town seems to line up perfectly
16:54:12 <LadyHawk> doesnt 3x3 cause a 1 tile gap in the middle?
16:54:32 <niblet> no, and even if it did its better with 1 tile gap than to have all those extra tiles spent on roads
16:55:14 <niblet> when you use 2x2 then 5 tiles are spent on road for every 4 tiles of city
16:55:41 <niblet> when you use 3x3 then 6 tiles are spent on road for every 8 or 9 tiles of city
17:01:38 *** tux_mark_5 has joined #openttd
17:06:46 <Eddi|zuHause> neither properly allows a 2 track rail line through the city
17:07:18 <niblet> what server is this? O_o
17:07:37 <Eddi|zuHause> a 4x4 grid could be useful for housesets that feature lot of 2x2 houses
17:09:50 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd
17:10:00 *** [com]buster has joined #openttd
17:10:50 <niblet> who wants to help me reproduce what he did?
17:11:53 <niblet> to stop a city grom growing mr ex is deleting new houses immediately after they are built
17:11:57 <niblet> "I delete them as server ...OWNER_NONE to be more precise, never had problems with desyncs this way."
17:12:06 <niblet> now how and where in the code would I do this?
17:13:18 <Eddi|zuHause> a) you send a docommand like everybody else
17:13:36 <Eddi|zuHause> b) this sounds like an improper check in the clients (possible way to cheat)
17:14:12 <dihedral> it would desync as soon as someone tries to do something with that house again!
17:14:34 <dihedral> or transports passengers from those houses
17:14:44 <TrueBrain> doesn't have to; houses are normally not owned by anyone anyway
17:14:57 <dihedral> but the passenger number exists
17:15:01 <TrueBrain> but yes, it sounds more like a missing validation ;)
17:15:11 <dihedral> and if a new player builds rail where another player has a building....
17:15:47 <TrueBrain> dihedral: clearly you missed something here ;) We can assume the house is deleted via a DoCommandP, which is sent to all the clients
17:15:53 <TrueBrain> so all players don't have a building
17:15:55 <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: if the destruction is sent as a docommand, there is no desync
17:16:41 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, if the hacked server can do this, a hacked client can also do this, and this is cheating
17:17:18 <Eddi|zuHause> (imagine someone destroying a town without having to worry about local authority rating)
17:17:51 <niblet> but but.. dont stop this from working! I need it for my imba citybuilder server
17:17:55 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: it is possible only clients accept such packet, but that servers don't :)
17:18:20 <TrueBrain> niblet: I try to convince Microsoft too, that I needed their RPC leak to hack a few more clients for my botnet
17:21:28 <Rubidium> clients can't send a command with a company that isn't theirs
17:24:01 <niblet> evul botnet here I come
17:24:21 <SmatZ> they can send it, but it will be ignored :)
17:24:27 <petern> TrueBrain, you don't need to convince them :)
17:24:47 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: there are plenty more where those came from :p
17:30:09 <niblet> omagad youre all evil russian haxxors
17:30:29 <niblet> hey a friend of mine were looking to hire a dude with a botnet. any takers? :p
17:31:30 *** fonsinchen has joined #openttd
17:32:36 <niblet> oh.. Im sorry, didnt see CIA was listening in on the channel :<
17:33:52 <Rubidium> botnets are boring... letting someone famous die makes a much bigger impact and goes without the hassle to find exploits
17:35:00 *** Spoons is now known as FauxFaux
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17:46:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r16703 /trunk/src/lang/ (9 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
17:46:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:46:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: catalan - 1 changes by arnaullv
17:46:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 7 changes by elleryq
17:46:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: danish - 3 changes by silentStatic
17:46:15 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 4 changes by Excel20
17:46:15 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: estonian - 34 changes by kristjans
18:12:39 *** [alt]buster has joined #openttd
18:23:14 *** niblet is now known as niblet-afk
18:32:34 *** Chris_Booth has joined #openttd
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18:59:06 <LadyHawk> is there a way to turn 'omg would you like to have this POS a year early to try it?' off?
19:01:45 <Rubidium> no, but pressing yes and not building the vehicle it makes it less likely you get it for the next vehicles
19:02:39 <LadyHawk> i can turn all that other popup junk off except for that bit
19:03:16 <SmatZ> it's an advantage to have newer model earlier than others :)
19:03:17 <LadyHawk> because i have a scenario with a town starting at 0 pop unable to build roads
19:03:21 <LadyHawk> so i play on fast forward
19:03:29 <LadyHawk> every second or two i get one of those popups
19:04:18 <SmatZ> [21:03:23] <LadyHawk> so i play <== umm, do you really "play"? :)
19:04:38 <SmatZ> are you making some video of that?
19:04:52 <LadyHawk> yeah, the town grows and gives me an opportunity to integrate my transport stuffs into it nicely
19:07:02 <SmatZ> why don't you just grow the city in SE?
19:07:05 <petern> SmatZ is worse than sacro
19:07:16 <LadyHawk> because that isn't cool SmatZ
19:07:48 <SmatZ> TrueBrain mistaken me with Sacro today
19:07:52 <LadyHawk> this way you go in debt until the city is big enough to sustain some form of transport to get your money back
19:07:52 <SmatZ> and now I am even worse...
19:07:59 <SmatZ> that's a straight downfall
19:08:14 * planetmaker hugs SmatZ (yet again :) )
19:09:21 <SmatZ> LadyHawk: if you pay your debt in the first month, you won't pay any interest
19:09:26 <SmatZ> why am I even asking :)
19:09:31 <LadyHawk> but you still pay something
19:09:35 * SmatZ shuts up to please petern
19:09:38 <LadyHawk> and it takes 2-3 years for the town to grow
19:10:03 <LadyHawk> you stay in debt, you go bankrupth, so the longer you have to wait, the further and faster you'll lose money
19:10:40 <LadyHawk> i think i've just realised something interesting though
19:10:59 <LadyHawk> if the tile the town is placed on doesn't contain a road, its growth is severely slowed
19:11:28 <SmatZ> hmm does it grow at all?
19:11:49 <LadyHawk> say 1 house every 4 years
19:11:54 <SmatZ> I thought no roads will be built if town's tile is blocked
19:12:18 <LadyHawk> this town is not allowed to build roads, i turned it off lol
19:25:06 <SmatZ> I thought LadyHawk is a girl for a while :-/
19:26:01 *** `Fuco`` has joined #openttd
19:26:35 <SmatZ> does your nick has anything in common with Fico?
19:26:49 *** `Fuco`` is now known as Fuco
19:27:49 <SmatZ> do you know any other Fico? :)
19:28:07 <Fuco> there's one at our school
19:30:48 <SmatZ> leader of slovak SMER - Socialna Demokracia (or so :)
19:31:00 <SmatZ> socialist party (probably)
19:32:08 <SmatZ> the word "socialist" has too bad meaning after all those years under the soviet union
19:32:53 <Eddi|zuHause> there's a big difference between "social democratic" and "socialistic"
19:44:10 <planetmaker> SmatZ: in German language there is. In English not as clear, I *think*
19:47:54 <Fuco> they are like Party of European Socialists
19:48:58 <Fuco> i think they are even members or something
19:52:13 <SmatZ> translating things like that is silly :-)
19:55:35 <dihedral> does anybody in here use zattoo?
19:55:50 <dihedral> and could possibly tell me the name of the 3.3.4beta deb package?
20:04:12 <Ammler> I just downloaded the package from www.zattoo.com
20:09:15 <dihedral> yes, but what was the filename
20:09:23 <dihedral> you cannot download the file via the website anymore for linux
20:09:27 <dihedral> but the file is still there :-P
20:10:02 <Ammler> that was long ago and a rpm
20:10:13 <Ammler> checking, if I have it locally
20:10:39 <dihedral> under linux they included the revision number :-P
20:11:48 *** Chris_Booth_ has joined #openttd
20:11:50 <Ammler> zattoo-3.3.1.18350-1.i386.rpm
20:12:01 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16704 /branches/0.7/ (13 files in 9 dirs):
20:12:01 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [0.7] -Backport from trunk:
20:12:01 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: When SDL/Allegro fail to initialise, fall back on another video driver but not to the null driver (r16702, r16700, r16699)
20:12:01 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Limit the screen's resolution to 65535x65535 so the dirty pixels stay within bounds of a 32 bits integer [FS#3001] (r16701)
20:12:01 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Missing debug string for ESRB_SAFE_TILE in YAPF debugging helper [FS#3002] (r16690)
20:12:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: When there is no AI version that can load data from the savegame, load the latest version of the same AI instead of a random AI (r16651, r16650, r16649)
20:12:12 <dihedral> there was a 3.3.4beta already
20:12:24 <dihedral> because my 3.3.3 install does not
20:12:35 <dihedral> (telling me to download the new version)
20:14:22 <Ammler> hmm, I used it in the army time, around half a year ago
20:14:54 <Eddi|zuHause> is that like in "Achtung, Fertig, Charlie"?
20:15:48 <Ammler> well, I am one of the kitchen.
20:16:04 <dihedral> Ammler, can you check for me if that version does a version check or not?
20:16:14 <Ammler> so I don't really know, what "they" do outside ;-)
20:16:47 <Ammler> dihedral: it did, and redirected me to use a web thing.
20:17:26 *** Chris_Booth_ is now known as Chris_Booth
20:17:36 <Ammler> www.wilmaa.com is alternative.
20:17:37 <Eddi|zuHause> what is zattoo anyway?
20:18:10 <dihedral> Ammler, only available in ch
20:20:18 <Eddi|zuHause> it doesn't seem to carry privately owned channels... only the public ones
20:23:21 <Ammler> it very depense on the country.
20:24:02 <Ammler> in ch, there are many German private channels, but not in Germany, afaik.
20:26:16 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd
20:27:41 <Ammler> well, I use wilmaa anyway, so the lost of zattoo doesn't hurt.
20:29:54 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16705 /branches/0.7/src/lang/ (28 files in 2 dirs): [0.7] -Backport: language updates
20:30:16 <Eddi|zuHause> i didn't even know this thing existed, so no loss for me either...
20:30:45 <dihedral> Ammler, the web thing is cpu hungry
20:30:55 <dihedral> way more than the actual app
20:32:19 <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, that page you posted, links to version 3.3.3, the change was made in 3.3.4beta - which temporarily was available for linux too
20:32:31 <dihedral> however no longer seems to be
20:41:50 <Eddi|zuHause> after a quick search, i can't help you...
20:46:18 *** Brianetta has joined #openttd
20:51:58 <Belugas> cool... my son has a football practice and I cannot be there because someone is not coding fast enough
20:53:28 <andythenorth_> tell em to code faster
20:54:07 <glx> some people must compile after each code change ;)
20:54:11 <planetmaker> that's a pain. Make them pay
20:57:00 <andythenorth_> when I'm managing coders, telling em to code faster *always* works never
20:58:14 <Eddi|zuHause> # und es ist, es ist ok,
20:58:15 <Eddi|zuHause> # alles auf dem Weg,
20:58:17 <Eddi|zuHause> # und es ist Sonnenzeit,
20:58:18 <Eddi|zuHause> # unbeschwert und frei.
20:58:40 <Rubidium> the eternal... managers break coders with their whining and haste
20:59:20 * Rubidium wonders where the world would be if stuff was released once the engineers/developers are satisfied with the results
20:59:47 <andythenorth_> Rubidium: I'll tell you when it's done. Stop asking questions like that.
20:59:50 <Rubidium> instead of some manegment deadline
21:00:26 <glx> it must be done for yesterday
21:00:27 <Eddi|zuHause> if you spoke german, i could cheer you up, go to google, and search for "Verräter Partei"
21:00:31 <Rubidium> especially because such a question disturbs the coder and thus wastes about 30 minutes of effective coding
21:06:06 <petern> i am totally fucked off with "when will it be ready?" :s
21:06:24 * LadyHawk resists the temptation to ask
21:06:35 * LadyHawk doesn't even know what it's about anyway
21:07:25 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster
21:07:33 <Belugas> they really don't understand that it's not possible, up until the very last time. And the more they ask, the more stress it gives us and the more error prone creatures we're turning
21:07:37 <dihedral> <glx> some people must compile after each code change ;) <- and some people could do with compiling after every code change
21:12:53 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd
21:19:50 <Belugas> i'd rather play, right now, than code or rush
21:20:16 <Belugas> and guess what? tomorrow, it's the national holiday. And guess who is going to work AGAIN?
21:21:16 <petern> please, er, go home early
21:21:20 <petern> not that i'm selfish or anything
21:22:07 <Eddi|zuHause> in what kind of country they can force you to come to work on a holiday?
21:25:11 <frosch123> noone forces you to work on a certain date as long as it is finished when it needs to :)
21:27:20 <dihedral> oh my - i love my job :-)
21:27:31 <andythenorth_> solution! start your own business :) hire some other coders :) turns out you have to work holidays anyway :(
21:27:32 * TrueBrain puts on his recording device
21:27:35 <TrueBrain> dihedral: say what?
21:27:46 <dihedral> sure it happens that i have to do a weekend or something like that, but then i get the time off :-P
21:27:53 <frosch123> only "big companies" have labour unions and policies to enforce noone is working on weekends or more than 10 hours a day. in "medium companies" noone cares about such stuff, but ohoh you can also more easily deal with holidays and overtime
21:28:26 <dihedral> we are like 40 employees
21:28:37 <dihedral> and they take amazing good care of us :-)
21:29:01 <Belugas> [17:21] <@petern> not that i'm selfish or anything <--- lol
21:29:16 <frosch123> and you have a time-punch machine, that ensures you are not working more than 10 hours?
21:29:30 <dihedral> we can come and go as we like
21:29:37 <dihedral> most of us can anyway
21:29:46 <dihedral> they trust we do our 8 hours
21:30:12 <dihedral> if i do more, they believe me, and i dont have to apply for time off
21:30:16 *** Progman has joined #openttd
21:30:21 <dihedral> unless it's like a few days in a row
21:30:29 <andythenorth_> dihedral: do you work for me? are you an employee in disguise :D
21:31:34 <andythenorth_> am I a boss in disguise?
21:31:44 <dihedral> i was just going to ask :-P
21:32:33 <Belugas> Can I kick andythenorth_? he's a boss!!!! ARGGGGHHHH!!!!!
21:32:46 <TrueBrain> Belugas: if that would make you feel better?
21:32:46 <dihedral> but i dont work in the uk so dont be afraid :-P
21:33:02 <dihedral> it's the wrong boss :-P
21:33:12 <frosch123> but e.g. here you can choose between 35 and 20 holidays per year with a rate of about 4% more money per 2% more work. so easy guessing which option one chooses, if he has to pay a credit for his house :)
21:33:32 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: The operation succeeded.
21:33:37 <TrueBrain> hmm ... wrong channel .. oh well
21:33:49 <DorpsGek> petern: Error: someone is not in #openttd.
21:33:51 <andythenorth_> ha, at least I code for fun. I can't code for money any more. It's not enough fun :(
21:33:59 <dihedral> minimum on holiday in de is 24 days
21:34:05 <dihedral> (for a full time job)
21:34:08 *** [com]buster has joined #openttd
21:34:47 <dihedral> but i might go for a 3/4 job ^^
21:34:53 <dihedral> work 3 months, get one month off :-D
21:35:25 <Eddi|zuHause> an unpaid month off is not necessarily the best thing...
21:35:47 <TrueBrain> only works if you can save up money :)
21:35:49 <dihedral> then the month off aint unpaid
21:36:15 <Eddi|zuHause> no, i don't understand you...
21:36:20 <dihedral> else it would be a full time job, with unpaid holiday, and that aint what i said :-P
21:36:24 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: you work 40 hours, you get paid 32 hours :p
21:36:35 <TrueBrain> a bit like a teacher ;)
21:36:56 <Belugas> i THINK i'll sneak my boss to GIVE me his berhinger unit, since i'm helping him a lot more than i should
21:37:11 <frosch123> teachers? aren't they like work 60 hours in first 5 years, work 20 hours for the rest?
21:37:19 <Belugas> maybe someting more, if there is anything worth grabbing...
21:37:54 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: 1 teaching hour != 1 working hour
21:38:13 <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, lessons need preparation!
21:38:18 <TrueBrain> The Watchmen, that movie, has a beautiful intro (music-wise)
21:38:30 <dihedral> exams need correcting
21:39:01 <TrueBrain> the school I worked at, it was 24 hours in class, you worked 40 hours a week on paper, got 32 hours paid, and had 12 weeks holiday in a year
21:39:02 <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: yes, and correction of tests, and if you are class leader you have additional time dealing with parents...
21:39:38 <dihedral> nothing i would want to do
21:39:38 <andythenorth_> TrueBrain: we did some work on The Watchmen :) Can't say what, secret :|
21:39:50 <TrueBrain> so don't say it; I don't believe you anyway :)
21:39:53 <frosch123> heh, dealing with parents, I guess that is about as troublesome as dealing with customers :p
21:40:06 <TrueBrain> frosch123: worse; their child is perfect
21:40:25 <frosch123> ok, s/customers/consultants of custom/
21:40:41 <dihedral> for one thing the child is perfect, for another thing, parents dont see the need to bring up their kids properly but complain when teachers are to harsh
21:40:55 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: you can't believe some of the stories my mother tells me...
21:41:23 <andythenorth_> customers pay and are reasonable. We fire the ones who don't / aren't. I'd prefer that over parents every day. No way I'd teach
21:41:31 <andythenorth_> my mother was a teacher. and my dad.
21:41:48 <dihedral> a friend of mine is a teacher, she took a knife away from a kid who was playing around with it, and when the mother came to collect it again, she was outraged
21:41:53 <dihedral> "it's only a knife!!"
21:42:31 <TrueBrain> "You hold my child!" - "He was hitting other children" - "You don't have the right to hold my child" - "be glad I didn't smash him to the ground" -- end of discusion
21:42:36 <petern> bring back corporal punishment i say
21:43:05 <Belugas> First ones to be punished are the bosses
21:43:12 <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: knives... firecrackers... cheating in tests... the parents always go to the next higher instance complaining...
21:43:34 <Belugas> hehehe DeathMole is blasting in the office !
21:43:38 <Eddi|zuHause> saying it isn't such a big deal...
21:43:40 <Belugas> You'l PAY FOR THAT!!!
21:43:52 <Eddi|zuHause> the teacher is always overreacting
21:44:13 <Eddi|zuHause> the next day the kid has firecrackers again...
21:44:18 <petern> MY CHILD WOULD NEVER DO SUCH A THING
21:45:17 <Belugas> not mine, nope, not mine... Give me that whip, you little brat
21:45:30 <TrueBrain> I once traced a few students which posted deadtreats on a public forum ... the parents kept on saying their children didn't do it, while they already admitted it (after we confronted them)
21:45:35 <TrueBrain> parents ... there is no worse kind ...
21:46:02 <dihedral> you hear that Belugas
21:47:33 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: the worst kind of children are those, who talk about nin songs at school :p
21:47:54 <andythenorth_> i was that child
21:48:07 <TrueBrain> sure you still aren't?
21:48:19 <Eddi|zuHause> i was at the wrong school for that...
21:48:38 *** thingwath has joined #openttd
21:48:59 <frosch123> "kind of children" is a weird term for a german :o
21:49:41 <TrueBrain> I am all out of candy :'(
21:50:06 <Eddi|zuHause> when i was at school, the top bands were "Die Prinzen" and "Ace of Base"
21:50:25 <andythenorth_> I bought it on iTunes
21:50:49 <andythenorth_> (that was a lie)
21:52:10 <Eddi|zuHause> oh, and the upcoming "No Doubt"
21:56:38 <Belugas> [17:45] <TrueBrain> parents ... there is no worse kind ... <--- my wife maybe, not me!
21:56:59 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, and your child is the most perfect of all
21:57:10 <TrueBrain> and he would never do that
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22:03:47 <TrueBrain> really .. I am very suprised with the music in The Watchmen
22:03:55 <TrueBrain> it really does set the mood over and over ..
22:05:49 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know many films where this is not the case...
22:06:35 <TrueBrain> I know many movies where the music doesn't do much
22:06:44 <TrueBrain> maybe more clear ;)
22:14:11 <marz2> well i was wondering why the Check Online content button doesn't work on 0.7.1 ( MacOS X 10.5 )
22:14:29 <dihedral> define "does not work"
22:14:38 <dihedral> do you get an error message?
22:14:40 <Rubidium> doesn't work in what sense?
22:14:59 <marz2> um it doesn't display a list of downloadable content ( i tried to follow the example on the wiki )
22:15:24 <dihedral> lets ask another way :-P
22:15:33 <dihedral> did you download a sable build, or is it a patched game
22:15:47 <marz2> stable build 0.7.1 from the website
22:15:54 <Rubidium> if it doesn't show a list it hasn't received something yet; if you wait for a while it will probably show that it couldn't connect
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22:16:23 <marz2> is the content server on a specific port?
22:16:48 <marz2> thats what i needed to know :-)
22:19:08 <marz2> while i'm thinking about it, what is the port for online games?
22:19:45 <Rubidium> and for the master server (the place where you get a list of servers) 3978 udp
22:20:45 <marz2> ok so all ports are 3978 and 3978 :D ty vm
22:28:45 <marz2> well it seems to get a list
22:29:00 <petern> i can't be bothered to list any more random irrelevant protocols
22:29:17 <petern> although i like protocol 139
22:29:49 * marz2 lists larp ( loners are right protocal )
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22:40:04 <Belugas> Eddi|zuHause: my child is an angel, of course. what can make you think otherwise??? It's just like me!
22:49:48 <Xaroth> Belugas: maybe because you're far from divine? :P
23:23:53 <Belugas> not had supper yet, not at home yet
23:24:05 <Belugas> having a little... exasperation blown out
23:25:10 <petern> but you didn't just throw a complete spazz on an irc channel :p
23:27:42 <Belugas> imagine the drill... I have this new device which interface was finished coded and tested on lab about 2 hours ago. In Toronto. Not in Montreal. The code has been sent out in NewYork, where another device is waiting for testing.
23:27:47 <rortom> petern: for you always :)
23:27:52 <Belugas> it does not work at NY
23:28:18 <rortom> Belugas: may one ask about what its doing?
23:28:19 <Belugas> and I only have logs to find out the reasons
23:28:35 <Belugas> i'm calling the M guy and the NY guy like every 3-4 minutes
23:29:28 <petern> and damn, sleepy time :s
23:29:37 <petern> yet again i've done fuck all :s
23:30:40 <rortom> Belugas: good luck with that, such situations are not nice :/
23:31:12 <petern> rortom, damn you, my irssi windows are all out of whack now
23:31:29 <rortom> because i kicked you? ;)
23:31:46 <rortom> we close down #RigsofRods for the moment
23:32:00 <rortom> serious BS happening there
23:32:03 <petern> close down == complete spazz
23:32:22 <rortom> you want to rejoin? ;)
23:32:24 <Belugas> rortom, trying to finalize the deployment of 70 stores, all that is required is the new pinpad to be working
23:33:11 <petern> and i'm going to dream of making sweet passionate... music with Belugas, lol
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23:34:01 <rortom> good luck with that :/
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continue to next day ⏵
