IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-06-13
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01:12:37 *** KenjiE20|LT has joined #openttd
02:18:22 <kkb110> hi I have a question about cross-compiling using mingw
02:18:41 <kkb110> at the end....... under "Compiling OpenTTD" section
02:18:49 <kkb110> where should I put those?
02:19:12 <kkb110> I created Makefile.config but it seems it doesn't work
02:26:00 <glx> just run configure with right args like --host
02:26:13 <glx> use configure --help to get all options
02:32:28 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc atan(22/50)*180/Pi
02:32:28 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 23.7494944929
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05:36:07 <dihedral> oh how happy could i be
05:38:36 <andythenorth> meh my bed hates me
05:40:11 <andythenorth> but nfo loves me
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06:59:59 <andythenorth> nfo: Wagon length callback 11. Usual case is *reducing* wagon length. I have a case with articulated RVs where I need a vehicle to be 12.5% longer (sprites are overlapping).
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07:25:54 <andythenorth> I'll use spacer vehicles with empty graphics then. Looks suckier, but will work
07:28:57 <andythenorth> The real sprites I'm using are shorter than default TTD RVs, but overlap visually when articulated. This seems non-ideal? Default train vehicles are same length as default RVs and do not overlap.
08:17:36 <andythenorth> Or it could be my drawing. Yep, _probably_ that. Nothing to see here.
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10:22:34 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: smatz * r16571 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#2974](r16322): in some cases, train could be stuck in depot
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11:01:04 <dragonhorseboy> any of you know how servers can have backward dates? there's eg one that says it started in janurary 2085 but its current at october 1992 now
11:11:18 <Alberth> dragonhorseboy: afaik you can reverse date with the cheat menu
11:17:26 <Ammler> isn't one the cfg setting, and the other the save setting?
11:18:15 <Ammler> ie. you start a game at 2000 and then loading a game which is at 1980
11:19:55 <dihedral> i would go with cheat too
11:20:13 <dihedral> dragonhorseboy, save the game locally, and load it as single player and then check the cheat menu
11:20:24 <dihedral> if one of them is ticket - you know
11:20:31 <KenjiE20> what Ammler sais was what I was thinking; the startdate is the one set in the [game creation] cfg section
11:21:10 <dihedral> then in theory you can change that value on a running game
11:21:23 <Ammler> I guess, that is possible
11:21:24 <dihedral> and any new query would get the new result
11:21:36 <dihedral> you have a running game, you have openttdlib ^^
11:31:13 <Rubidium> game creation date is stored in the savegame
11:33:11 <Ammler> Rubidium: what happens with older saves?
11:35:03 <Rubidium> older saves, the TTD/TTO/TTDP kind (from before OpenTTD's own savegame format) use 1950
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11:38:50 <Rubidium> but negative durations are due to cheating back in time (so you can have maglev in 1950)
11:39:35 <dihedral> hehe - let maglev disappear again :-D
11:42:35 <Ammler> just starting the server and loading a save with "older" date
11:43:04 <dihedral> started the server with -g?
11:43:11 <Rubidium> oh, that bug that the 'starting date' wasn't updated if you change the date in the scenario editor
11:43:43 <Ammler> I start server with new game on 1900
11:43:58 <Ammler> start another server with gamestart 1975
11:44:05 <Ammler> I load the other save there.
11:44:06 <dihedral> then it's your own silly fault
11:44:33 <dihedral> probably that though would happen with loading any game during another game
11:44:47 <dihedral> not that is happens very often, but ....
11:44:56 <dihedral> Ammler :-P -> bugs. ... :-D
11:45:08 <Ammler> dunno, if that is a bug :-)
11:45:33 <dihedral> try loading the sav with -g at game start
11:45:37 <dihedral> and see what date you get
11:46:50 <Ammler> well, as you lost, you can make the report :P
11:47:55 <dihedral> i never lose - i dont just always win *cough&
11:49:49 <Ammler> but changing the starting_year on running game has indded no influence.
11:50:17 <Ammler> (why is it possible then?)
11:52:10 <Ammler> maybe it has something to do with setting name change, wasn't that thing called start_date or soemthing in past?
11:52:23 <Rubidium> it's something *stupid* in the server code
11:53:33 <dragonhorseboy> sorry was distracted by game
11:53:36 <dragonhorseboy> fair enough ;)
12:02:15 <dragonhorseboy> I'm just playing the public beta is2 server with a decent player now ;)
12:02:28 <dragonhorseboy> petern sure left many unfinished businesses as I can note
12:03:49 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16572 /trunk/src/saveload/afterload.cpp: -Codechange: also catch FPEs in saveload and the warning about missing NewGRFs; only happens when assertions are disabled and NewGRFs are missing.
12:06:44 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16573 /trunk/src/network/ (network.cpp network_udp.cpp): -Fix: [Network] Always send the starting date from the game you're currently playing instead the starting date from the config file.
12:08:29 <ccfreak2k> That's a silly switch for a program to have.
12:12:01 <petern> just had a flyby go overhead
12:13:49 <ccfreak2k> I guess -g does nothing then.
12:14:32 <SmatZ> ccfreak2k: it uninstalls the game, you need root privileges for that
12:14:44 <petern> by overhead, i mean literally
12:14:58 <petern> nearly blinded myself cos that's where the sun is too :p
12:16:49 * _ln visited a German navy mine-seeking ship today [x]
12:31:52 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
12:34:07 <_ln> petern: what type of aircraft?
12:38:28 <petern> unfortunately not a clue
12:38:36 <petern> well, there were the red arrows, they're obvious
12:41:10 <petern> different aircraft in each formation
12:51:10 <Rubidium> with yet another project file format
12:51:41 <Rubidium> oh, you're talking about a plane and not that MS thingy?
12:52:09 <Rubidium> sounded a bit like you found the beta of VC10
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13:15:14 <dragonhorseboy> well have to go for a while now
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14:41:15 <Eddi|zuHause> _ln: well, that is a long ongoing practice in eastern germany...
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15:43:23 <Eddi|zuHause> what kind of sucky forum doesn't allow searching as guest user...
15:47:49 <SmatZ> many forums even forbid anonymous users to view threads...
15:54:51 <glx> I consider these as bad forums :)
16:02:51 *** _ln was kicked by DorpsGek (+as)
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16:47:33 <HackaLittleBit> good afternoon
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17:34:00 <Eddi|zuHause> _ln: in that article earlier: "Unemployment is now approaching 20 per cent and the total population has almost halved" <- really, that sounds like any east german city
17:35:02 <Eddi|zuHause> basically that means, the USA are now, where the eastern block was 20 years ago
17:36:02 <Eddi|zuHause> and we all know what happend to that one ;)
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17:43:01 <_ln> someone has scanned and put online an old editorial (from 1981) from some finnish newspaper, where the author's point is that he disapproves how finnish universities are spending resources on researching some totally useless wireless phones, while everyone knows that foreign trade of metal industry products to Soviet Union will be the most important income for Finland for the next 100 years.
17:51:19 <Alberth> doing prophecies in hindsight is always much easier.
17:53:42 <_ln> i mentioned that to emphasize how unexpected it was back then the SU would only exist for another 10 years.
17:55:47 <Eddi|zuHause> well, the point of researching something totally useless is to get it into a state where it becomes not totally useless anymore
17:56:58 <Eddi|zuHause> like 20 years from now we could steer computers by putting on a hat that measures the brain waves
17:57:39 <Eddi|zuHause> the technology for that is there, it just needs to be researched and developed into a useful and stable product
17:57:43 <_ln> in 6 years we'll have flying cars
17:57:48 <_ln> (source: Back to the Future II)
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18:03:51 <Wolfsherz> i just don't get this signaling-stuff... really, there seem to be different opinions on this topic anyway, but who can tell my when to choose block or path signals?
18:04:30 <glx> _ln: flying cars already exist
18:06:11 <dihedral> Wolfsherz, preference has to do with it
18:06:32 <dihedral> i.e. someone might prefer using pbs, Mark would never use pbs if he can avoid it
18:06:36 <glx> and mixing them is usually a bad idea
18:06:44 <dihedral> if you want to build something like nand gates, you'd not use pbs either ;-P
18:06:55 <SmatZ> freezing prisons should be here since 2006 according to demolition man
18:07:46 <Wolfsherz> ok about this mixing of pbs and block signals. lets assume i have 2 terminus-stations, i connect them with a double track, each for one direction...
18:08:36 <Wolfsherz> which signals would you chose, how many tiles between each signal, and why?
18:09:26 <Wolfsherz> and i guess pre-, exit- and block-signals are neither pbs nor block - true?
18:11:20 <Alberth> heh? block signals are not block signals?
18:13:39 <Alberth> I use pbs for all 'complicated' crossings, eg in front of a station, with more than minimal track to improve throughput. For RORO platforms, I use plain combo signal for behind the platforms, and along the straight track (I hate it when trains drive in the 'wrong' direction).
18:15:05 *** henry_ is now known as Maragil
18:15:22 <Alberth> trick with pbs is that you only need to put them where a train can safely stop, whereas with a combo signal, you'd try to minimize the block size to get better throughput
18:15:24 <Maragil> I've just downloaded the latest generic binaries from your website/
18:15:58 <Maragil> and i need to get libicui18n.so.38..
18:16:24 <Maragil> first time at playing this, trying it out - i'm a simutrans player :D
18:17:46 <Noldo> it might be in a package names libicu38
18:18:07 <Alberth> My machine says it is in the libicu-3.8.1-7.fc9.i386 RPM
18:18:30 <Maragil> I'm using gnome- can anyone give me a step by step guide?
18:18:49 <Maragil> go to Install Software i guess?
18:19:09 <Wolfsherz> thank you alberth, so the typical distance between pbs-signals on a long track would be?
18:19:56 <Alberth> Maragil: pretty much everything is at the wiki, more or less up-to-date, just search for it
18:20:12 <Ammler> [20:16] <Maragil> OpenSuse 11.1 - [20:18] <Maragil> I'm using gnome- can anyone give me a step by step guide? what now?
18:21:08 <Eddi|zuHause> Maragil: i was under the impression, openttd was in one of the community software repositories for suse
18:21:43 <Eddi|zuHause> then install that one?
18:21:45 <Maragil> but when i run it i get this error :
18:21:48 <Eddi|zuHause> instead of the generic one
18:21:54 <Alberth> Wolfsherz: pbs reserves a path for the train until the next safe point, usually the next signal. Thus that will be the smallest distance you can have between 2 trains
18:22:02 <Maragil> cannot open file "sample.cat"
18:22:12 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, well, the readme tells about that.
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18:22:28 <Maragil> about the sample.cat?
18:23:10 <Wolfsherz> Maragil, you need to get this file, and some others, as stated in the readme, from the original ttd-game.
18:23:19 <strongfrakk> Maragil: you need to download the Transport Tycon Deluxe + OpenTTD
18:23:28 <Eddi|zuHause> OpenTTD requires the original version of Transport Tycoon Deluxe
18:23:29 <Eddi|zuHause> data files in order to function. Please refer to the readme for
18:23:31 <Eddi|zuHause> more information."
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18:23:41 <Maragil> do you need to buy those?
18:23:42 <strongfrakk> Maragil turn to torrents
18:23:47 <Eddi|zuHause> says it right there in the package description
18:24:04 <Wolfsherz> they are freely available in the internet... the game has been abandoned
18:24:07 <Eddi|zuHause> Maragil: you can try opengfx
18:24:10 <strongfrakk> Maragil: www.torrentz.com keyword openttd
18:24:24 <Eddi|zuHause> strongfrakk: please don't do that
18:25:04 <Alberth> Maragil: readme is at the download page in the first blurb of text.
18:25:36 <Maragil> oh well- thank you al
18:25:42 <Maragil> i'm downloading the files now
18:25:50 <Maragil> thanks for your help!
18:25:50 <Alberth> section 4.1, line 161 :)
18:26:15 <strongfrakk> Alberth: what are you talking about ?
18:26:49 <Alberth> or did you mean the pbs stuff?
18:27:30 <MYOB> anyone know what was the last version that built with GCC2?
18:27:31 <strongfrakk> i meant about section
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18:45:12 <glx> MYOB: we dropped gcc2 support
18:45:49 <MYOB> glx I'm aware of that, I wanted to know what was the last version before it was dropped
18:46:20 <glx> I can't remember if noai worked with it
18:47:39 <SmatZ> MYOB: before it was dropped or last version that compiled with gcc2?
18:48:29 <SmatZ> I think there were several builds that compiled with NoAI
18:48:43 <MYOB> just have some people looking for a final version for 'classic' BeOS
18:49:16 <SmatZ> 0.7 will compile if you drop NoAI and do some wchar fixes
18:50:29 <MYOB> last build I put out publically is from pre-0.5 svn, so even 0.7 hacked at a bit is a big leap
18:52:05 <MYOB> we FINALLY have a GCC4 option...
18:53:02 <MYOB> you have to be using haiku-gcc4 for that
18:53:16 <MYOB> for BeOS 5, 6 (Zeta) and Haiku-gcc2 its a nogo
18:56:23 <SmatZ> MYOB: actually it seems anything >= r15024 is a no-go
18:57:01 <SmatZ> so the problem preventing gcc2 to compile noai was solved before the merge... but then other appeared, which was never solved :)
18:58:57 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: Commit by rubidium :: r15024 /branches/noai/src (6 files in 3 dirs) (2009-01-12 16:28:01 UTC)
18:58:58 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: [NoAI] -Cleanup: remove some hacks
18:59:53 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: Commit by truebrain :: r15027 /trunk (309 files in 30 dirs) (2009-01-12 17:11:45 UTC)
18:59:54 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: -Merge: tomatos and bananas left to be, here is NoAI for all to see.
18:59:55 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: NoAI is an API (a framework) to build your own AIs in. See:
18:59:58 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: With many thanks to:
19:01:48 <MYOB> 'remove some hacks' sounds easily like 'remove everything needed for ancient compilers to work' ;)
19:03:10 <SmatZ> it was my mistake, trunk doesn't compile with gcc2 since r15027
19:04:38 <glx> MYOB: 'hacks' were saveload hacks
19:05:53 <MYOB> the configure script (well, config.lib) looks for zlib in locations that we don't have
19:06:11 <MYOB> not sure theres much point providing a patch if I can't guarantee the app even builds on haiku-gcc4 ;)
19:06:40 <glx> you can always pass the path to configure
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19:23:06 <MYOB> I am so out of touch with the build system here...
19:55:37 <Alberth> they only found a new place to post their suggestions :p
20:00:36 <andythenorth> I don't like to be mean about them, some are just kids (I think). But some are more annoying than others :(
20:04:00 <Alberth> you handled it quite nicely, I think
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22:27:30 <Nite_Owl> sorry for the delay - I was called away for a moment
22:33:32 <Belugas> guess who is back to work@work?
22:33:51 <Belugas> luckily form home but still
22:34:41 <Nite_Owl> working from home is slightly better than working from the office
22:35:20 <Nite_Owl> not by much but still better
22:43:18 <Rubidium> Belugas: it's Sunday 00:43, so I hope you get paid extra ;)
22:44:34 <Belugas> i took wednesday off for personal matters
22:44:40 <Belugas> so... give me, i'll give you
22:49:05 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16574 /trunk/src/network/core/game.h: -Codechange: reorder stuff in NetworkGameInfo so compilers waste less bytes aligning stuff and fix the comment of the structs.
23:21:32 <petern> oh cool, the 'live' mp3 streaming does actually work
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23:53:43 <keikoz> is there a way to know the exact rating my company has in some city ?
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