IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-06-04
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00:18:36 <SxeDag> how do i unload goods at a station? my train only takes it back. the city does not curently accept goods.
00:19:43 <Eddi|zuHause> if it is not accepted, there is not much point in unloading... rather reroute the train to a location which is accepting
00:20:00 <Eddi|zuHause> otherwise, the order window has dropdowns for special loading and unloading options
00:20:22 <Eddi|zuHause> click on the order, and then on the little arrow next to "unload"
00:22:52 <Eddi|zuHause> the order window has been rearranged for more options. all previous options are available somewhere
00:24:32 <SxeDag> it only says unload and take cargo
00:24:40 <SxeDag> so it takesit on again
00:25:11 <Aali> so set the no loading flag
00:25:20 <Aali> then you get unload and leave empty
00:25:23 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, so next to the unloading options are the loading options. set "no loading" there
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05:33:47 <SxeDag> where do i find close all windows button?
05:34:59 <eQualizer> Was it delete or backspace?
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05:51:17 <SxeDag> when can i buy shares in other companies?
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06:08:02 <andythenorth> ammler: (digging something best left dead) afaik I'm the only openttd person running grfcodec and nforenum through crossover for Mac...
06:27:55 <Xaroth> SxeDag: when the company is old enough
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06:35:20 <Xaroth> 5 years more like it tbh
06:36:18 <Noldo_> did you check the source?
06:38:15 <Alberth> the wiki contradicts itself, so it may be different than stated
06:38:42 <Noldo_> Alberth: it says 5 somewhere else?
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06:46:50 <Noldo_> if (_cur_year - c->inaugurated_year < 6)
06:50:32 <Noldo_> so if the company starts on 1.1. it is 7 years - a day and if it starts on 31.12. it's 6 + a day
07:05:33 <Ammler> andythenorth: I guess, planetmaker does use a strange combinaton of mac-windows for grf combiling, too.
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07:23:18 <Xaroth> Noldo_: your equasion is flawed? if inaugurated_year == 1000 then at 1006 that equasion will fail
07:23:34 <Xaroth> 1006 - 1000 < 6 = false
07:23:41 <Xaroth> 1005 - 1000 < 5 = true
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07:28:08 <dihedral> where on earth do you get that result??
07:29:00 <Noldo_> the equation was from the code, my analysis might not be accurate
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07:35:06 <Xaroth> dihedral> where on earth do you get that result?? << i'm lazy and use mono to calculate that :P
07:36:12 <Xaroth> int a = 1006; int b = 1000; Console.WriteLine("{0} - {1} < 6 = {2}", a, b, a-b<6);
07:39:15 <Noldo> ok, 6 - a day and 5 + a day
07:42:24 <Rubidium> and that even depends on the definition of 'a year' ;)
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09:03:47 <planetmaker> I got a cargoID / translation table question: why can / should have a translation table more than 32 entries which can be set via the bit switch directly?
09:04:10 <planetmaker> for the reason that I can define more cargos in the table and provide dedicated graphics (but not refit options)?
09:04:58 <planetmaker> e.g. if I have milk on position 40, I could provide a special milk livery, but not provide a special milk refit option, right?
09:17:58 <petern> the refit mask is 32 bits, hence to make it directly refittable (as opposed to via a cargo class) it needs to be in the first 32
09:18:20 <planetmaker> What use are cargo translation tables with more entries?
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09:18:57 <Hirundo> For use in e.g. Action3?
09:19:16 <petern> for use in action 3, and for use with cargo classes
09:19:23 <planetmaker> so the livery / cargo graphics effects :)
09:19:37 <planetmaker> and use with cargo classes?
09:19:48 <planetmaker> That's the piece I'm then still missing.
09:19:49 <petern> action 3 for cargo specific variations
09:19:56 <petern> cargo classes for refittability
09:20:25 <planetmaker> I can assign them, if defined in the cargo translation table, a cargo class or more?
09:20:48 <petern> no, the cargo definition assigns the cargo class
09:21:31 <planetmaker> or is there another cargo definition?
09:22:27 <petern> cargo definition being either the table of original cargo types or whatever a cargo newgrf specifies
09:25:07 <planetmaker> hm... ok, so basically the industry grfs define what cargo class a thing belongs to, right? (though other grfs could do that, too, I assume)
09:27:27 <petern> no, the cargo grfs define what cargo class a thing belongs to
09:27:43 <petern> industries and cargos are separate, but usually defined in the same grf together
09:30:05 <planetmaker> ok, yes. The background is: as a train set designer I have to guess the cargo classes certain types of cargos will belong to.
09:30:21 <planetmaker> unless I find descriptions as in the wiki :)
09:30:32 <petern> there are descriptions of classes in the wiki
09:30:50 <planetmaker> yes. In two places actually :). Just adding ECS to the general one, too
09:30:59 <petern> i proposed a solution of 'automatically add cargos in action 3 to the refit list' but that wasn't liked, iirc
09:31:20 <planetmaker> where all others are defined, but ECS is blank in those places.
09:32:33 <planetmaker> thanks for clarification :)
09:34:15 <petern> oh cock, i missed another 44 :/
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11:10:46 <Rubidium> so fast you can walk on water ;)
11:12:55 <planetmaker> add a "a bit" of gelantine to the ocean :P
11:13:48 <Rubidium> why gelatine? just freeze it ;)
11:15:42 <Rubidium> put earth in a higher orbit?
11:16:15 <Noldo> you can make walkable liquid by adding starch
11:18:03 <Noldo> well, runnable more like
11:19:31 <Rubidium> we all know about non-Newtonian liquids ;)
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11:42:45 <elmz> is there a way to make old scenraios support freeform edges?
11:44:47 <Alberth> the obvious way is to re-draw them in a newer OpenTTD version
11:44:57 <Rubidium> just toggle the appropriate switch I'd say, would make them 'new' scenarios though
11:49:01 <dihedral> what do you mean by 'support freeform edges'?
11:49:18 <dihedral> can you not load the scn and then change the setting?
11:49:27 <planetmaker> only one-way afaik
11:49:34 <planetmaker> from non-freeform to freeform
11:49:51 <planetmaker> but might be even that doesn't work.
11:50:30 <Eddi|zuHause> it will not work if there are buoys, oil rigs or ships on the northern edges of the map
11:51:21 <elmz> well, it is a .scn without buoys, and industries
11:51:38 <dihedral> did you _try_ doing anything yet?
11:52:01 <elmz> I started it before freeform edges were implemented
11:52:23 <dihedral> yes, i gathered that
11:52:23 <Rubidium> you can convert from freeform to non-freeform and vice versa as long as there's clear water at the edge
11:52:34 <dihedral> but did you TRY to enable freeform edges?
11:52:35 <elmz> only thing I tried was raising land close to the edges, didn't work
11:53:11 <dihedral> Rubidium, how is that done? simply changing a config setting?
11:53:55 <Rubidium> well, there's a setting for freeform edges, but that's explained on the wiki and the forum
11:54:19 <elmz> lol, it was just to change the setting ^^
11:54:32 <elmz> thanks, didn't know there was an option for it
11:54:37 <dihedral> that is why i asked what you had tried so far
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12:36:35 <dragonhorseboy> any of you know if its a server glitch or exactly what is 'Server version: norev000'? :p
12:36:54 <glx> compiled without svn/git/hg
12:36:58 <planetmaker> a server compiled w/o ^^
12:37:27 <dragonhorseboy> glx..hm it does make you wonder what the real version was tho .. it shows up in both 053 and mini-in network lists .. go figure with that
12:37:41 <dragonhorseboy> heh its passworded as well so not going bother trying look anyway
12:37:54 <Rubidium> dragonhorseboy: norev000 means anyone can join
12:38:06 <Rubidium> and probably everyone gets kicked because they joined with the wrong version
12:38:16 <dragonhorseboy> yeah that figures.. catch22 in sorta a way
12:38:43 <dragonhorseboy> looks like only one company and no players on it now
12:41:48 <dihedral> Rubidium, unless they have the right version :-D
12:41:51 <dragonhorseboy> anyway what all of you doing now? nothing? heh
12:42:06 <dihedral> have you ever heard of the word 'work'?
12:43:01 * dragonhorseboy whacks dihedral with a ream of business letters
12:43:16 * dihedral considers extending his ignore list
12:43:21 <dihedral> my this week is busy for that list
12:44:36 <Alberth> add all, then remove people when you miss them
12:45:59 <dihedral> that's too much work
12:46:50 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: alberth * r16515 /trunk/src/ (widget.cpp widget_type.h window.cpp): -Codechange: Added scrollbar handling for nested widgets, and finding widgets by type or position in the tree.
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12:52:23 <petern> heh, not got rid of the second vertical scrollbar widget type yet?
12:54:56 <Alberth> there are still 115 windows using the widget arrays
12:56:54 <dragonhorseboy> heh .. subsidiaries are quite fun to play with here
12:57:11 <dihedral> it would be nice to make them part of the rating system
12:57:32 <dihedral> or at least keep a counter, of how many subsidaries a company has gotten so far
12:58:03 <dragonhorseboy> dihedral check the patches that were used in mini-in .. it does count them
12:58:13 <dragonhorseboy> or are you asking in a different sense?
12:58:39 <dihedral> i dont talk about mini-in
12:58:47 <dihedral> trunk is what is of interest
12:58:52 <elmz> wow, is there actually a town limit?
12:58:54 <dragonhorseboy> dihedral then why are you even talking about subsidiaries?
12:59:13 <dragonhorseboy> elmz...depends who you ask
12:59:17 <dihedral> eh - then i meant something else :-P
12:59:21 <elmz> and so low....can't be more than 80 towns on my map
12:59:21 <dragonhorseboy> elmz..I've seen 30,000+ myself
12:59:37 <dragonhorseboy> (populations..don't ask)
12:59:48 <dihedral> elmz: settings? map size?
13:00:01 <dragonhorseboy> elmz..its kinda funny to try populate a map with tons of <200 population villages and see how much of the map you can fill
13:00:11 <elmz> same scenario still :) 2048x2048
13:00:57 <elmz> but around 80 towns I'm no longer allowed to place more towns
13:01:01 <dihedral> and what is the error when you try to build another town?
13:01:03 <Eddi|zuHause> <elmz> wow, is there actually a town limit? <- mostly, the number of towns is limited by the number of names the town name generator can produce
13:01:12 <dragonhorseboy> elmz..heh I had actually pondered making a map full of no industries and tons of small towns to try a bus&tram transportation system company in but I dunno yet
13:01:33 <dragonhorseboy> kinda busy with a tropical map atm
13:01:34 <elmz> and its got nothing to do with population limit, world population is 5200
13:01:34 <Eddi|zuHause> so try manually renaming a town, and then found one again
13:02:30 <elmz> ah, thx Eddi...apparently out of latin-american names :)
13:03:04 <elmz> Eddi: still playing Ferion? :)
13:03:29 <Eddi|zuHause> in that case, you might want to start over with a different town name generator
13:03:39 <dragonhorseboy> this is too silly .. i'm looking at one particular piece of the map where at least several different ai companies had bankrupted at and one is still existing .. a BIG mess of useless not-owned road tiles all over the place and the ai still can't "think" to reuse these than just building more
13:03:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i played a game a few months ago...
13:03:52 <dragonhorseboy> I guess the AI is always a weak one
13:04:20 <dihedral> dragonhorseboy, what version of openttd are you playing
13:04:32 <dragonhorseboy> the last mini-in
13:04:50 <dragonhorseboy> have five different subsidiaries running now
13:05:02 <elmz> I don't play much anymore myself, its a good game, but I just don't have the time for it :)
13:05:07 <dihedral> nobody cares what the ai does in mini-in
13:05:28 <dragonhorseboy> dihedral..its improved from the original one at least tho (not seeing useless wood bridges anywhere)
13:05:58 <dragonhorseboy> you sound like you never ever play with AIs then
13:06:11 <dihedral> dragonhorseboy, there is a new ai system
13:06:24 <Eddi|zuHause> elmz: problem of the game is that there was almost no development in the past couple of years
13:06:27 <dihedral> i have never cared for the old ai system
13:06:59 <dragonhorseboy> eddi..there's actually a chris-in thats dated to late 2008 (not sure why no 2009 progress..maybe holiday break)
13:07:01 <elmz> yeah, it seems to be pretty much in stand still...
13:07:23 <dihedral> that happens with all IN's or patch packs
13:07:33 <Eddi|zuHause> dragonhorseboy: talking about something entirely different
13:07:53 <elmz> hehe, maybe a bit confusing to have that discussion in here :)
13:07:58 <dragonhorseboy> eddi..no.. chris-in took the last mini-in and just advanced more newer patches into it .. I've tried it but its got a bit of memory overflow bug
13:08:22 <planetmaker> dragonhorseboy, you shouln't play that old PP anyway
13:08:24 <dihedral> dragonhorseboy, yes, eddi is not talking about openttd at all iirc
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13:08:38 <elmz> dragonhorseboy: we're talking about the browser based space strategy game Ferion ;)
13:09:15 <dragonhorseboy> space empire? sounds interesting .. I'll stick to my the-west account for now tho
13:09:40 <dragonhorseboy> planetmaker...then care to tell me where its replacement is yet? ;)
13:10:01 <dragonhorseboy> actually.. I've got four worlds on the-west.net anyway
13:11:03 <dragonhorseboy> heh I like the 10 base numbers they have on ferion site .. especially 10 base 0
13:11:09 <Rubidium> dragonhorseboy: chrisin isn't based on miniin
13:11:47 <dragonhorseboy> rubidium last I checked the patches .. it seem to have lifted the whole thing out of mini aside to some more options
13:11:51 <Eddi|zuHause> well, 1 (=10^0) player wins the game ;)
13:12:09 <planetmaker> dragonhorseboy, I don't need replacements for patchpacks. The real thing is just fine
13:12:13 * dragonhorseboy looks at screenshot
13:13:24 <elmz> so actually c*10^0 , c = [1, 6] ;)
13:13:51 <dragonhorseboy> hmm I take it its based on html+ajax? (ferion)
13:14:05 <Eddi|zuHause> well, only the top 3 are declared winner in that case
13:15:00 <elmz> ah well, I've never ranked higher than 4 ^^
13:15:26 <elmz> back in game #104 or something ^^
13:15:32 <Eddi|zuHause> 6 people alliances... the average used to be 4 in the old days...
13:16:12 <elmz> hehe, I just picked a number seeing as there is no limit to alliance sizes, just penalties for large ones :)
13:16:37 <Rubidium> dragonhorseboy: the fact that chrisin starts at r10292 of trunk, miniin was last at trunk around 7500, chrisin misses grolsch's realistic acceleration, chrisin adds patches that were in miniin way after it's first steps and chrisin doesn't have subsidiaries is a pretty argument against chrisin being based on miniin
13:16:41 <Eddi|zuHause> well, there were 20 people alliances before the penalty got introduced :p
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13:26:37 <petern> Rubidium, but it's got "IN" in the name!
13:31:59 <dihedral> how could one not see that right away?
13:34:27 <Rubidium> petern: so you played in Die Hard 2?
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14:07:24 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: alberth * r16516 /trunk/src/ (misc_gui.cpp osk_gui.cpp window.cpp window_gui.h): -Codechange: Added click and drag handling for nested widgets.
14:10:04 <Rexxars> some serious GUI work lately
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14:31:37 <Alberth> just making a bit of room
14:34:50 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: alberth * r16517 /trunk/src/ (intro_gui.cpp town_gui.cpp window.cpp window_gui.h): -Codechange: Switched intro-screen and town directory window to nested widget trees.
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15:16:26 <Hirundo> Alberth: are there any short- to mid-term plans to make the y-distance between text lines dependant on font height?
15:16:44 <Hirundo> i.e. replacing ORDER_LIST_LINE_HEIGHT with something that is font height-dependant
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16:11:45 <Eddi|zuHause> Hirundo: long term goal is a scalable GUI, so adaptible line height should be part of that
16:12:09 <Alberth> At this time, I don't look at specific sizes, it is more about making the window layout as a whole more flexible, so your option becomes possible.
16:25:59 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: translators * r16518 /trunk/src/lang/swedish.txt:
16:25:59 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-06-04 16:25:41
16:25:59 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: swedish - 39 fixed by daishan (39)
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17:15:00 <dihedral> he's a little silent ^^
17:40:03 <Belugas> although he's from germany, somehow, not sure he's the same. but hey...he can change provider...
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19:44:27 <andythenorth> petern: what's the status on roadtypes? I ask only for grf set planning purposes :)
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19:47:27 <Rubidium> I'd say: less finished than railtypes
19:47:41 <frosch123> likely not started at all
19:48:25 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd refer to fuzzle.org/o but that appears to only have old patches
19:48:26 <frosch123> oh, no, I am a liar
19:48:28 <Rubidium> oh, the repos is even empty
19:48:59 <frosch123> hehe, yeah that fooled me :o
19:49:27 <andythenorth> thanks. my assumption is that when (if) it's done, I'm going to want to recode HEQS to make use of it. And probably do at least one roadset for it (trails). So if it's not done, that's a bit of a relief ;)
19:49:48 <andythenorth> ...back to shark fishing for now then
19:50:01 <Eddi|zuHause> take all the time you need ;)
19:50:18 <andythenorth> bleargh. photoshop crashed
19:51:26 <Rubidium> andythenorth: liar... it's Adobe implementation of something like Workpace in Photoshop
19:51:58 <andythenorth> I have no idea what you're talking about but I'm sure you're 100% correct
19:52:28 <Rubidium> Workpace is an anti-RSI tool that makes you wait every few minutes
19:53:17 <andythenorth> I think Apple call their implementation of that 'beachball'. Or 'iCal'
19:53:42 <Rubidium> though the problem is that such tools work on my nerves and get me more agitated only making it worse instead of better
19:54:17 <andythenorth> anyone want to go fishing at the beach?
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19:57:29 <petern> erm, yes, somewhat 'unfinished' you might say
19:58:38 <planetmaker> obviously the beach isn't unfi(ni)shed, though ;)
19:59:00 <andythenorth> planetmaker: funny you say that. I am drawing a shed.
20:01:56 <theholyduck_> Rubidium, i just have a timer on for every 30 minutes
20:02:05 <theholyduck_> and i stretch constantly when NOT using a computer
20:02:13 <theholyduck_> or whenever i make a new cup of tea
20:02:34 <theholyduck_> stretching exercises and pushups and anything else that loosens and rebalances your muscles
20:02:37 <theholyduck_> is what you need :P
20:02:56 <theholyduck_> also, dont use flatline keyboards
20:03:08 <theholyduck_> model m's or ergonomical keyboards :P
20:03:17 <theholyduck_> workspace is just overly obtrusive
20:04:38 <Rubidium> anything that disturbs a programmer is *very* bad for efficiency
20:05:02 <theholyduck_> Rubidium, true :P
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20:05:17 <theholyduck_> Rubidium, wich why you do as much stretching and relaxation as you can when NOT using a computer
20:05:24 <andythenorth> rsi is pretty disturbing :(
20:05:29 <theholyduck_> and also type with a GOOD keyboard
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20:06:54 * Rubidium doesn't trust those people 'specialised' in preventing RSI; I followed their 'rules' for one day (as in they said I was doing it right) and I had a sore wrist for the rest of the week :(
20:07:53 <theholyduck_> Rubidium, well my doctor gave me a pretty good advice i think
20:08:02 <Rubidium> ah, that's the model m keyboard... ideally useful for weight lifting ;)
20:08:02 <theholyduck_> stretch when you go to bed and when you wake up
20:08:07 <theholyduck_> and beffore you eat
20:08:21 <theholyduck_> also use a keyboard that requires some EFFORT to use
20:08:27 <theholyduck_> as in, actual MUSCLES involved
20:08:49 <andythenorth> not convinced by my shed :( back to the drawing board (literally)
20:09:19 <theholyduck_> Rubidium, basicly, i got loads of rsi symptoms.. 4 or so years ago
20:09:50 <theholyduck_> since then i've been following those base ideas, and its been improving massivly
20:10:09 <frosch123> [22:07] * Rubidium doesn't trust those people 'specialised' in preventing RSI; I followed their 'rules' for one day (as in they said I was doing it right) and I had a sore wrist for the rest of the week :( <- did you actually use a pedal button instead of clicking with the mouse?
20:10:36 <theholyduck_> most programmers/power users hardly ever touch the mouse
20:11:24 <frosch123> I'm just reading the wiki article about rsi, and I am quite impressed about some stuff written there. Like using pedals instead of mouse buttons, or using two mice, one for moving, one for clicking...
20:12:21 <theholyduck_> frosch123, this summer i'm going to try something i think might be a prety good solution
20:12:25 <theholyduck_> 1 hand chording keyboard
20:12:33 <theholyduck_> with built in mouse controlls
20:12:57 <theholyduck_> lets you walk and write, stand and write and keep the hand at a completely relaxed position and write
20:13:07 <theholyduck_> while also doing simple mouse navigation
20:22:26 <andythenorth> petern: thanks for the answer :)
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20:45:32 <Eddi|zuHause> sometimes i'd really like a one-handed keyboard
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21:02:56 <andythenorth> I'd like pixels that draw themselves. And possibly to not have drunk cider earlier.
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21:31:22 <andythenorth> enough pixels. Guess what I had for supper? Fish fingers. Goodnight.
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21:36:23 <Belugas> guess waht, i had no supper yet, since i'm still stuck in thisw FUCKING OFFICE!!!
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21:42:46 <Belugas> debugging, a matter of performance
21:42:50 <Belugas> critical for the cstomer
21:43:15 <Xaroth> be glad yer not screaming fsck fsck fsck fsck fsck
21:46:13 <dihedral> well actually - Belugas has something i do really envy him for:-)
21:48:11 <Belugas> no... that one, you already have...
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23:26:24 <welshdragon> Prof_Frink: jou just lost the game
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continue to next day ⏵