IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-05-20
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00:09:57 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
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00:31:19 <SmatZ> you can use MSN client to connect to IRC?
00:31:29 <SmatZ> or you just have to remember what (L) is :)
00:31:45 <Eddi|zuHause> i hate such smilies
00:32:06 <Eddi|zuHause> one time i wrote (C) and it got replaced by a coffee mug
00:32:08 <SmatZ> ICQ at least uses *KISSING* *KISSED* *IN LOVE* and such ;)
00:32:16 <SmatZ> so you know what it means :)
00:32:55 <Eddi|zuHause> i was using Kopete
00:33:08 <Eddi|zuHause> (connecting to ICQ)
00:33:46 <SmatZ> I am using pidgin (gaim) (in KDE ;)
00:39:11 <PeterT> is there a way to chat while joining a multiplayer game?
00:39:58 <glx> it used to work, but some people abused it to spam
00:44:21 <SmatZ> I was really surprised anyone misuses OTTD for spam
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00:44:57 <glx> at least it was not commercial spam
00:45:11 <glx> just ottd server advertising
00:45:27 <SmatZ> good there aren't people "killing" servers
00:45:49 <SmatZ> though... I several times wanted to "kill" servers so their admins upgrade to current version ;)
00:46:19 <SmatZ> the "SIGSEGV them" way, not "grep at masterserver" way ;)
00:49:27 <SmatZ> ~23 servers 0.6.3, 6 servers older...
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00:50:52 <SmatZ> hmm which one of 0.5.3 killers should I choose...
00:52:33 <glx> killing 0.5.x is too easy ;)
00:53:02 <glx> IIRC there was some asserts in commands
00:53:29 <SmatZ> even without asserts :)
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01:40:45 <kkb1101> often whenever play with a 'blue' company on a network game, it's confusing to distinguish between 'the sea' and 'the blue' in map. How about putting small white dots in the sea?
01:44:48 <welshdragon> kkb1101, or just use another colour for boats
01:50:48 <welshdragon> that's distinguishable
01:51:05 <welshdragon> the sea has waves anyway
01:51:19 <kkb1101> in the left-right cornor small map??
01:52:20 <welshdragon> that's because it is the wromg overlay
01:52:46 <welshdragon> you need the little train
01:53:14 <kkb1101> you mean the buttons for different view at the bottom?
01:54:17 <kkb1101> but it's not something 'wrong' and.. actually that is my favorite view
01:54:33 <kkb1101> because I usually join more a server more than 5 people
01:55:00 <welshdragon> but that view isn't to show vehicles, aircraft or ships
01:56:16 <kkb1101> the point here is 'the blue company color is undistinguishable with water when use company-color view'
01:57:08 <kkb1101> ok nevermind, nobody needs change, I can make patch myself and use myslef
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08:06:07 <planetmaker> I've got an nfo problem: how can I tell grfcodec to interpret a file with the correct character encoding, e.g. Vagão vs Vagão
08:06:15 <planetmaker> I'm on linux for this purpose
08:17:43 <petern> grfcodec doesn't care about encoding
08:17:56 <petern> because openttd wants it
08:17:59 <planetmaker> yes, that's what I try...
08:18:10 <petern> also put the thorn in, as the spec says
08:18:24 <planetmaker> so... I guess, then my question is: how do convert the file from whatever encoding to utf-8
08:18:42 <planetmaker> like vi and using :set enc=utf-8 displays it nicely.
08:19:46 <petern> you've not put the thorn in
08:20:07 <petern> also, why the big space?
08:20:24 <petern> 09:18 <@petern> also put the thorn in, as the spec says
08:22:36 <planetmaker> ah, Thanks. That's what I was missing.
08:22:46 * planetmaker goes trying to add that
08:36:56 <planetmaker> nice. That works almost for Portuguese.
08:38:12 <planetmaker> There's one character, though, which obviously is still interpreted differently than intended: the enumeration symbol 1ªG
08:38:45 <planetmaker> (the one in the middle, corresponding to st, nd, rd, th in English, list 1st, 2nd, 3rd)
08:40:06 <planetmaker> anyone an idea how that is called?
08:40:25 <planetmaker> knowing the name, I could possibly define a custom character.
08:40:28 <petern> maybe there's just no character...
08:40:38 <petern> tried with a font? heh
08:40:50 <planetmaker> it gets converted into the downward arrow as seen for windows in the upper right corner
08:41:47 <petern> no gui characters overlap standard characters
08:42:01 <planetmaker> well. actually the arrow which OpenTTD uses for its scroll bars
08:42:29 <petern> or at least, shouldn't do, heh
08:42:54 <petern> ,...{ 0x00AA, CLRA }, // Feminine ordinal indicator / Down arrow
08:43:18 <planetmaker> so... they DO overlap?
08:43:22 <petern> CLRA means it is cleared from the available characters
08:43:49 <petern> so i have no idea how you're getting it :p
08:44:13 <petern> ,...,...,...case 0xAA: d += Utf8Encode(d, SCC_DOWNARROW); break;
08:46:36 <planetmaker> hm... which source file is that found in?
08:49:52 <petern> planetmaker, congrats, you found a bug
08:50:11 <planetmaker> he... not sure whether I shall be happy or sad :P
08:50:23 <petern> -Codechange: support the unicode version of the 'control' characters.
08:50:27 <planetmaker> shall I make a report or do you want to work on it now?
08:50:48 <petern> but rubidium is not here :S
08:50:54 <DorpsGek> petern: rubidium was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 2 days, 13 hours, 5 minutes, and 5 seconds ago: <Rubidium> TrueBrain: you shouldn't count your age with your fingers! ;)
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08:51:39 <planetmaker> well... he's in #openttd.noai
08:53:10 <petern> well, you can ask him, i'm not chasing devs who disappear
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08:55:38 <planetmaker> ok, I'll make a simple bug report then.
08:55:54 <planetmaker> thank you a lot for checking right here now :)
09:03:59 <planetmaker> bug report added. I hope you don't mind me pasting our recent chat in there, petern
09:04:55 <planetmaker> hm... yes. It says still waiting for bugs.openttd.org. I guess it will apear soon
09:05:35 <planetmaker> well. I attached the newgrf. It's not tiny :P
09:05:56 <planetmaker> and the corresponding nfo files.
09:06:18 <planetmaker> the normal page is accessible here instantly, too
09:08:13 <planetmaker> hm... it shouln't take *that* long. It's only 1.3MB...
09:09:33 <planetmaker> now. uploaded at 3rd try
09:11:31 <petern> if you read the wiki spec, it states that the unencoded form should translate to the special chars, and the encoded form should be used as is
09:11:37 <petern> which is what happened pre r11622
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09:15:22 <planetmaker> we have a nice word for that in German: verschlimmbessern. Somewhat translatable to "to wrong-improve"
09:15:30 <planetmaker> or "worse-improve"
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09:26:42 <eekee> oh yay, non-purple waypoints. I only just noticed
09:28:40 <eekee> now I wish they didn't have white text. They're obscuring my signs and lookign unnecessarily different to the stations I've have to use for multi-track waypoint things
09:29:49 <Ammler> hehe, belongs to pm's category "verschlimmbessern" ;-)
09:30:02 <SmatZ> what colour would be better?
09:30:11 <SmatZ> or just use black too when zoomed out?
09:30:30 <eekee> black like the stations would be better for me
09:30:57 <eekee> and when zoomed in too, I have lots of waypoints in places
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09:31:57 <planetmaker> they are, if you have background transparency switched on for them.
09:32:10 <planetmaker> then they only have white text.
09:32:24 <planetmaker> (my default setting)
09:32:34 <Ammler> use the canada station set, then you have stations looking like waypoints
09:32:51 <eekee> oh I could use it.. yeah
09:34:48 <eekee> can anyone spot the "Bradnor North" sign?
09:35:27 <eekee> spaces. blame firefox's tidy url bar lol
09:35:34 <SmatZ> but becomes black after zooming
09:35:40 <SmatZ> that's what I was talking about :)
09:36:02 <eekee> yeah but look at all those white waypoints too. The sign doesn't exxactly stand out
09:36:45 <eekee> and the waypoints are hard to read, which is ok if there were only 1 or 2 but not when they're scattered around like grains of pepper
09:38:05 <eekee> there's probably no 'right' solution though
09:38:36 <eekee> rather than waypoints I'd like a setting to make 1-square-long stations default to non-stop via
09:38:58 <eekee> and some means of making sure forgotten trains don't stop there
09:39:42 <SmatZ> use non-stop by default
09:40:34 <SmatZ> there are few exceptions where you don't want to use non-stop
09:40:51 <eekee> I do, but I've got a couple of old saves I still play
09:41:51 <eekee> oh there's the Bradnor West sign I forgot was there lol. This is one of my old games
09:42:01 <SmatZ> if you enable "TTDP-compatible nonstop" in those savegames, all orders will be converted to non-stop when opened in new OTTD version
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09:43:21 <eekee> wait where is that option? I haven't seen it for ages.
09:43:39 <eekee> I see "new orders are non-stop by default"
09:44:32 <Ammler> that is the new name for
09:44:48 <Ammler> but on the games you have to change the setting, it is called something with TTDP
09:47:24 <SmatZ> [11:42:04] <SmatZ> if you enable "TTDP-compatible nonstop" in those savegames, all orders will be converted to non-stop when opened in new OTTD version <=== nah
09:47:34 <SmatZ> only those "non-stop" orders of course :-/
09:48:19 <SmatZ> TTDP-compatible = "go via" ... normal = "non-stop"
09:48:26 <SmatZ> so it isn't useful for you at all
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10:31:35 * petern ponders just reverting r11622
10:31:49 <petern> i don't know what it was intended to solve, though
10:39:17 <petern> what is "lol" about that?
10:39:39 <petern> apart from the massively wide window border
10:39:50 <kkb1101> can you guess the actual size of that monitor? it's 15"
10:40:07 <petern> well, no, that information is there not there
10:42:32 <eekee> I kinda believe in high resolutions because I feel text antialiasing is wasteful and annoyingly complex, but I would have thought 2048x1536 was about right for a 21" 4:3
10:42:47 <dih> i did not know a 15" screen would give you 2048 pixels across natively
10:43:06 <kkb1101> it's my laptop. IAQX10N panel
10:43:18 * eekee wants one of htose now :D
10:44:16 <dih> why on earth would you squeeze that info on to 15"?
10:44:59 <kkb1101> major reason is... for more lines... good for coding...
10:45:14 <dih> because you can hardly see the pixels
10:45:31 <dih> things get a bit too small (as soon as you get a bit older you'll understand that part) ^^
10:45:35 <kkb1101> at first few days, yes it was hard
10:45:39 <dih> then i'd rather buy something bigger with the same res
10:45:50 <dih> + it is not good for your eyes
10:46:20 <kkb1101> maybe.. I don't know but so far... I think I'm fine :D
10:46:23 <eekee> if everything is scaled up for it it could be beautifly smooth
10:46:49 <dih> i'd still spread the data over a larger area
10:47:06 <kkb1101> yes that works good too. I tried few times.. the edges of texts become so smooth
10:47:14 <dih> i like sitting a bit further away from my screen, rather than using the touch screen with my nose ^^
10:47:32 <eekee> ya, I have a 640x480 screen on a PDA (4") and some people insist that 80-column text is reasonable on it. It's not, at all
10:48:10 <eekee> there is that too, OTTD on that thing is very very fiddly :)
10:48:37 <eekee> not anything, stuff designed for it has big buttons
10:49:00 <dih> buttons are usually designed in pixel sizes
10:49:16 <dih> and my nose aint that small either
10:49:32 <eekee> no not in Gtk+, not, I imagine, Qt or any other modern design
10:49:51 <dih> hehe - you start using the zoom function
10:50:04 <dih> what a reason to spend 500$ on that thing
10:50:30 <dih> see - i told you, you sit way to close to that thing :-P
10:51:09 <eekee> kkb1101: what's the laptop?
10:51:30 <kkb1101> but this comes with 1280x800 originally
10:51:57 <kkb1101> bought the panel from ebay
10:52:17 <eekee> I'd do that just for the smoother everything
10:52:23 <petern> a 22" 1680x1050 is about right for my eyes
10:52:33 <eekee> if I had any money. I'm skint right now :(
10:52:34 <petern> any higher res and i'd want a larger screen
10:53:07 <eekee> I've got 20" 1680x1050 & don't like coz it's grainy lol
10:53:15 <dih> who needs anything better than 24x80 :-D
10:53:50 <petern> yeah, sometimes i run a single full screen terminal with large fonts
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10:54:22 <petern> not 80x24, cos that doesn't work on a wide screen, heh
10:55:12 <dih> you could rotate your screen by 90 degrees
10:55:25 <eekee> oh ya it gets a bit stretched, reminds me of the 40x24 8-bit screens
10:55:54 <eekee> I use a 22-pixel-high font on my PDA at 230dpi. nice & smooth
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10:56:12 <kkb1101> that's higher than mine
10:56:24 * petern remembers MODE 2 on a BBC B
10:56:51 <eekee> I remember BBC model Bs but didn't get to use them much
10:56:54 <petern> 20 characters wide, 32 high i think
10:57:38 <petern> or MODE 1, 320x256, 40x32
10:57:45 <petern> or MODE 0, 640x256, 80x32
10:58:04 <eekee> high colour for the machine? The 8-bit ataris had modes with pixels about 8 times as wide as they were high
10:58:28 <petern> however, the output was PAL timing, so the dot pitch was pretty bad
10:58:57 <petern> 2 colours in MODE 0, 4 colours in MODE 1 and 16 colours in MODE 2 (from a palette of 8)
10:59:10 <eekee> 16 from a pallete of 8 hehe
10:59:25 <petern> yeah, the upper 8 were flashing opposite colours
10:59:31 <eekee> Atari had a pallete of 256 so nyea hehe
10:59:36 <petern> opposite within the palette
10:59:51 <petern> because colour 9 would be red/cyan
10:59:56 <petern> and colour 14 would be cyan/red
11:00:04 <eekee> The one time I got to play with that I chose magenta & green XD;
11:00:34 <petern> the other combos where yellow/blue and black/white
11:00:54 <petern> you could speed up the flashing to produce various shades of not-quite-grey
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11:01:17 <petern> 25 Hz cycle though, so still flashed a bit
11:01:27 <eekee> you've actually got me missing school O.o
11:01:32 <petern> pal timings, so it was all interlaced
11:02:06 <petern> the text mode was alright though
11:02:37 <petern> dedicated teletext chip, so used interlacing properly
11:03:53 <eekee> speaking of interlacing I once had a VGA monitor I had to use interlacing on to get it to display 1024x768
11:04:11 <eekee> Had to put textured backgrounds everywhere to hide the flicker
11:07:20 <eekee> I've had a few monitor adventures. There was a big fixed-resolution monitor, you could get windows drivers for it but linux had no concept of any of that so I had to construct modelines by hand without knowing anything about the monitor
11:09:13 <eekee> I could go on forever about monitors & user interfaces >_>
11:12:53 <eekee> I get on tolerably ok with 'normal' user interfaces but could be better. The menu bar for instance grates, especially when immediately adjacent to a text field
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11:46:40 <petern> textured backgrounds would make the flicker worse
11:46:43 <petern> you'd want a solid background
11:48:15 <eekee> actually no. Textured bg makes flicker worse on non-interlaced, but better on interlaced
11:50:55 <petern> must depend on the texture
11:51:04 <petern> windows 3.1's marble texture was evil on interlaced
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11:51:29 <petern> with a solid background there should be no flickering
11:51:33 <petern> as it's the same colour
11:52:13 <eekee> well monitors will flicker with enough ambient light, and that particular monitor was rather dim
11:52:40 <eekee> in fact it got dimmer, I got less than a years use out of that one
11:53:59 <eekee> I used to get old monitors at £14 each, got at least a year out of most of them. One of them was a Viglen, exceptional thing while it lasted
11:55:49 <eekee> very sharp, very bright, but it burnt a vertical strip where it would flash when switched off and solder joints kept breaking around the back of the tube
11:58:55 <petern> i once managed to get a fixed sync vga monitor to scan in a single line
11:59:06 <petern> it was okay, cos i turned it off straight away
12:00:15 <eekee> the fixed sync one I had would get narrower in the vertical if I tried to add more lines. It was 1024 lines @ 50Hz
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12:03:49 <eekee> not playing with modelines on a linux box by any chance? (or bsd or minix/386 I guess)
12:05:14 <petern> so it might've been any standard svga mode...
12:05:37 <petern> supported all the usual modes up to 640x480
12:05:55 <petern> but that was okay, because the graphics card only did that, too
12:06:07 <eekee> I had one of those but I think it would just roll
12:06:15 <petern> this is back when 800x600 was special
12:06:33 <petern> card was an, oak oti-037, an isa beast with 256KB
12:06:46 <petern> the monitor had a switch on the back to select colour, green, or 'amber'
12:06:57 <petern> (amber was blue removed, so it still produced red & green colours, heh)
12:07:47 <petern> has anyone with clue looked at this 'string system upgrade' thread?
12:07:52 <petern> cos it looks pointless to me
12:08:02 <eekee> I wired up a VGA to an Atari ST & got a green-screen once. 'hi-rez' from the ST
12:12:40 <glx> weird syntax highlighting in code balise
12:20:00 <glx> I don't see how his system is better then our
12:43:20 <Forked> what am I looking at? :\
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12:44:19 <SmatZ> a bit strange way how to say others you have a girlfriend...
12:44:36 <Forked> oh at the bottom there
12:45:24 <glx> welshdragon: more details may help
12:45:30 <SmatZ> reminds me of OTTD riddles at ottd.info
12:45:42 <SmatZ> I was staring in them for hours to find the solution too...
12:47:12 <welshdragon> what it is: the RV that is on the disconnected bit of road just goes round in a square
12:47:21 <petern> what is it supposed to do?
12:47:31 <petern> it can't get anywhere...
12:47:38 <welshdragon> it cannot find a depot
12:48:08 <welshdragon> ;et me grab a savegame
12:48:20 <petern> there is no route to the depot from there
12:48:49 <glx> indeed, it's on a 2 tiles long road
12:49:25 <SmatZ> it's really evident that "vehicle is moving in circles" from that static image :-p
12:49:59 <eekee> welshdragon: If I didn't know you had a sight impairment I'd be taking the mick big-time ;D
12:51:39 <welshdragon> ok, there's now a savegame
12:54:26 <welshdragon> try setting orders
12:54:29 <eekee> "cant insert new order, vehicle can't go to that station"
12:54:37 <glx> someone changed grfs in running game?
12:54:43 <petern> how do i view the game log?
12:54:59 <petern> then don't waste our time
12:55:24 <eekee> it's marked as a passenger tram trailer on my machine
12:55:37 <eekee> lemme try laying tram tracks
12:56:16 <eekee> can't lay them on the tile & it ignores them
12:57:52 <glx> <@petern> how do i view the game log? <-- type "gamelog" in the console :)
12:59:18 <petern> yeah, i figured that one out :)
12:59:28 <petern> saw a big list of added grfs
12:59:35 <petern> then i resisted the urge to swear :p
13:00:57 <eekee> hey if the grf code can add multiple vehicles with the same ID, why does adding grfs still cause that sort of problem?
13:01:39 <SmatZ> eekee: enginepool is disabled in that save
13:02:11 <petern> how do you search for a number in irssi's lastlog?
13:02:28 <petern> /lastlog 10 will just show the last ten lines, instead of searching for 10
13:02:57 * SmatZ doesn't know... maybe /lastlog \10 ?
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13:03:43 <petern> quotes and a space does it, ta
13:04:18 <eekee> posibly also /lastlog 5000 10
13:05:27 * petern ponders a pair of M-AUDIO BX5as
13:05:32 <petern> although, they're... quite large
13:05:51 <petern> they don't look large until you see the IEC socket
13:06:53 <eekee> I need a new amp. The old one hisses too much
13:07:37 <eekee> I also need a single tall speaker stand. hrm
13:07:57 <Condac> can someone help me find th wiki page where thay explained how to set the service interval for all my trains
13:08:21 <eekee> oh I know, I can make one out of copper pipe & label it steampunk :}
13:09:32 <eekee> Condac: I never visit the wiki but in-game look in advanced settings under vehicles->servicing
13:09:59 <Condac> eekee there you can only change the default, and that is blank in multiplayer
13:10:08 <Condac> or not black but unediteblee
13:10:11 <petern> you can only change it per-vehicle
13:10:20 <petern> annoying, but that's the way it is :/
13:10:47 <Condac> i found some fancy consolle command that changed it for everyone yesterday but now i cant find it again
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13:11:05 <eekee> you know, there are certain circumstances where being able to change settings for all vehicles wwould be awesome
13:11:08 <petern> that mght be a little excessive
13:11:47 <eekee> or even better would be if you could select all your vehicles going to a certain station or waypoint
13:13:39 <eekee> select by order "waypoint stanstow" delete "waypoint stanstow" & goto "waypoint stanstow #5"
13:18:03 * Belugas "enjoys" the return to the office
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13:27:48 <fjb> Hm, the running costs of the NARS 2.02 diesel engines are far lower than advertized in the buy menu.
13:27:48 <glx> Condac: it's not in clean openttd
13:27:59 <Condac> glx nope i saw that now
13:28:38 <Condac> is any other easy way to change service on all vehicle?
13:37:35 <planetmaker> Condac, if they're grouped... yes.
13:40:43 <fjb> Change it on one vehicle and it changes all in its group.
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13:41:14 <Condac> then im going to start grouping my veheicles
13:41:30 <Belugas> and here we go, another stressful day of certification has started
13:42:10 <Condac> can i create a group of every train that goes to one station?
13:42:20 <Condac> or do i haev to drag them?
13:43:05 <fjb> Oh, sorry they have to share orders, only grouping is not enough.
13:45:35 <Condac> fjb: but does it change on everyone when i change like i normaly do then?
13:46:19 <planetmaker> Sorry, fjb is right. Having shared orders makes things easier. But if it is just a "send to depot" it works with groups, too
13:47:05 <fjb> When vehicles share orders then all vehicles which share the same set of orders change the oders at the same time. You just have to change the oders of one of them.
13:47:13 <Condac> i dont want to "go to depot" i want to change service interval from 150% to the default or anything else than over 90% with is max
13:47:46 <Condac> i changed from day to % interval and it is some bug that made all trains on 150%
13:47:57 <fjb> Service intervall? Is that settable by oders? Don't think so.
13:48:17 <Condac> and they never service then...
13:48:49 <eekee> fjb: root problem is that service intervals can't be set in multiplayer, right Condac?
13:49:10 <Condac> eekee not the default intervals
13:49:40 <Condac> but we restareted the server and ran the savegame through a singelplayer game and changed the setting that way
13:50:01 <Condac> but now every one is set at 150%
13:50:02 <eekee> that's not right, players should be able to set their own intervals
13:50:38 <Condac> but new vehicles get 50% but all old will never go for service
13:50:50 <Condac> and yes the service interval should be induvidual in mp
13:50:52 <eekee> I don't see any way to set it per-train so I think the last half-hour's discussion may have been based on a misunderstanding
13:51:18 <Ammler> I guess, "they" are working on company based settings. ;-)
13:52:35 <Ammler> but maybe, I just missunderstood some commits
13:53:00 <Condac> A totaly new question, when grouped some trains that have the same order and layout, how do i change all orders at the same time or is that not posible?
13:54:12 <fjb> Changing orders as I explained above.
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13:57:18 <fjb> Do the vehicle share their orders?
13:57:49 <Condac> by share if you mean the have the same because i cloned them
13:59:07 <eekee> you have to clone with ctrl held down for them to share orders
13:59:19 <fjb> Cloning with contol key pressed. Showes "End of shared orders" at the end of the orders list.
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13:59:39 <Belugas> it's writeen "Shared Orders" somwehere on the orders window
13:59:50 <Condac> can i get them to share without delete and reclone?
14:00:47 <Condac> damn there is lots of hidden features i havnt learnd yet. i play it like its the original game still
14:01:15 <eekee> aye, it gets crazy but some of them are really good :)
14:02:02 <Ammler> Condac: if you join public server, I would say around 50% sill play it like they did with TTO/TTD
14:02:35 <Ammler> some don't use 1way singnals ;-)
14:02:50 <Condac> I have learned lots of new stuff from watching openttdcoop servers
14:02:54 <Ammler> (that was TTD feature, iirc)
14:03:02 <petern> you learn lots of shit from watching openttdcoop too
14:03:08 <Condac> i used one-way in the old game i remember
14:03:16 <Ammler> Condac: public server != openttdcoop server ;-)
14:04:08 <Ammler> [16:03] <petern> you learn lots of shit from watching openttdcoop too <-- for sure :-D
14:08:53 <Ammler> #openttdcoop members are ready for every competition, btw. ;-)
14:21:25 * fjb suggests a "model railway" competition. :-)
14:23:12 <petern> fjb, you mean your model railways don't have extra track to do load balancers and priorities?
14:24:44 <fjb> Extra tracks are ok as long as a (hides from Belugas) real railway wouls have put them there.
14:25:50 <Ammler> well, it is a "timetable" simulator ;-)
14:26:22 <Ammler> there is btw a really nice timetable save around in the tt-forums.
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14:27:13 <Belugas> but i'm not stressed, just extremely bored, so you're safe
14:27:15 <fjb> Shit, all the coal mines are closing down, even the serviced ones.
14:27:30 <fjb> Belugas, are you closing my mines down?
14:28:04 <Belugas> fjb, unless it can be done via the chip n pin system i'm currently testing, no
14:28:12 <eekee> you get that with oil in the default set, ne?
14:28:32 <Ammler> that is something else.
14:28:34 * fjb looks for chips and pins in side his computer.
14:28:48 <glx> it's different, oil wells never increase production
14:29:09 <fjb> Some mines were not empty, but were old and had very low output.
14:31:37 <fjb> Now my steel mill overflows with ore. And the prospected new mines are at the other end of the map.
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14:50:13 <planetmaker> <fjb> Now my steel mill overflows with ore. And the prospected new mines are at the other end of the map. <-- good for your profit
14:50:51 <planetmaker> and concerning the ore trains with PBI: for these cases conditional orders were made :)
14:51:20 <planetmaker> if load % > 25 goto depot or something like that
14:51:51 <planetmaker> combined with some timer which releases them again, it might just work
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15:42:56 <fjb> planetmaker: Hm, the timer is the missing part.
15:43:30 <fjb> Or can I put the depot staying time into the timetable?
15:44:26 <planetmaker> fjb, it's feasable by means of pre-signal abuse and another "clock" train with time-tabled schedule
15:44:57 <planetmaker> but trains in a depot will try to leave. You can abuse that the depot has an integrated combo signal
15:45:03 <Condac> what defines if a industry is "serviced well"
15:45:58 <fjb> Anyway, one long distance train holds more cargo than the stockpile limit of the steel mill is. So If have to pile it at a station and a shunting train carries it to the mill.
15:47:08 <fjb> Condac: Always a vehicle there that takes the produced cargo awayx.
15:47:30 <Condac> is it posible to get above 85%?
15:47:59 <glx> do you have a statue in the town?
15:48:36 <Condac> glx: are you asking me?
15:49:07 <Condac> what does the statue do?, never built one
15:49:36 <planetmaker> Condac, add 10% to your rating...
15:49:38 <fjb> But why are the running costs in the purchase window different from the running costs after buying the vehicle? A bug in NARS? Strange...
15:49:48 <planetmaker> fjb, probably not.
15:49:59 <planetmaker> running costs may differ between "running" and "stopped"
15:50:52 <fjb> Ah, I have to look at a train that is not in a depot or station or waiting in front of a signal.
15:51:42 <Condac> if i have a train always waiting at the station and picking upp the transported % never get above ~80%
15:52:04 <planetmaker> Condac, station rating != transported %
15:52:35 <Condac> aaahaa, each station have a rating, never seenn that
15:52:35 <planetmaker> it's too warm here.
15:52:41 <fjb> planetmaker: Thank you, that is it. Far less running costs while stopped. Why didn't I think about that?
15:52:57 <planetmaker> :) fjb because it isn't used in older newgrfs, I think
15:54:27 <planetmaker> doesn't make them necessarily bad, though
15:55:10 <fjb> They should be called oldgrfs then. :-P
15:55:28 <planetmaker> never name anything new<something>
15:55:38 <planetmaker> it will be not new most of the time
15:56:32 <fjb> Extension grfs, but that would lead to exgrfs.
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15:59:14 <fjb> So now I'm happy with my trains again. Only my station design could be better. But much water and many rough mountains doesn't leave much room.
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16:08:37 <fjb> Pikka made the running costs really dynamic, not only running or not running differs.
16:12:17 <Condac> i have found a strange "bug" or feature or what ever you call it. Collecting cargo slower gives higher rating... :S
16:15:41 <Aali> you get rating for having a vehicle in the station loading cargo
16:15:55 <Aali> whether you actually pick up any cargo or not is irrelevant
16:19:23 <fjb> Starting to service that coal mine made its production go down and down.
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16:21:27 <Condac> hmm i was mistaking, for some reason when the train was to long at the same time the rating was increased out of nowhere
16:23:24 <Condac> but the rating but still its imposible to get near 100% transported. im running a "sandbox" now with two stations with 3 tracks each all having trains collectin all the time
16:23:59 <fjb> I declare 93% as near 100%. :-)
16:28:04 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v DorpsGek
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16:28:08 <Condac> wow, the production is realy increasing on the mine
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16:36:54 <fjb> Only things which are not dying are power stations.
16:44:55 <fjb> Hm, dying banks would be realistic.
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16:52:29 <z-MaTRiX> soneone take a look at multiplayer #MG#1Large World ?
17:01:55 *** fjb was kicked by Belugas (This is abusing a realistic situation of stress!!)
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17:25:12 <fjb> I have to replace 22 trains by hand now. :-(
17:30:59 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: translators * r16362 /trunk/src/lang/ (9 files): (log message trimmed)
17:30:59 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-05-20 17:30:16
17:30:59 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: catalan - 2 fixed by arnaullv (2)
17:30:59 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: czech - 2 fixed by Hadez (2)
17:30:59 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: dutch - 2 fixed by habell (2)
17:31:01 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: finnish - 2 fixed by jpx_ (2)
17:31:01 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: german - 2 fixed by planetmaker (2)
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17:54:28 <planetmaker> you're early today :)
17:55:12 <Nite_Owl> Hello eekee & planetmaker
17:55:56 <Nite_Owl> yes I am a bit early - I had to get up early to do a favor for a neighbor
17:57:29 <Nite_Owl> she needed a spreadsheet put together for a phone list
18:01:11 <Nite_Owl> it is rare for me to be up before noon
18:03:36 <planetmaker> he. The good guy with the computer knowledge :)
18:03:43 <Belugas> but she was in babydoll, so no one can resist
18:04:43 <Nite_Owl> She is far too old for that
18:05:28 <glx> you're the only geek around?
18:06:31 <Nite_Owl> probably not but I do live right next door to her
18:07:28 <Nite_Owl> and I helped her buy the computer 5 years ago.
18:09:49 <Nite_Owl> she is now about 75 years old
18:21:34 <eekee> ooh I like the OpenGFX toolbar
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18:30:38 <eekee> I've just realised I could make vehicle models in opensim (don't need to texture them I think), but the catch would photographing them at the right angles
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18:56:13 <eekee> lol there's a simple model for the chimeara: 1/4 of a sphereoid
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19:23:05 <eekee> He says he's a Klingon, but he writes like a Federation human
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19:31:03 <DorpsGek> PeterT: I have not seen ChrisBooth.
19:36:15 <De_Ghosty> are we getting 3d version of openttd?
19:37:11 <planetmaker> PeterT: @seen booth
19:37:19 <eekee> nah I just realised I've got so much experience of building in second life & opensim and I've always wanted to contribute to opengfx or otherwise make grfs & I just thought to put the 2 together
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20:04:32 <yorick> actually more clients than servers online :D
20:10:35 <Belugas> there are people playing the game???
20:13:40 <eekee> do ttd vehicles have 4 sprites or 8for the different directions?
20:14:28 <yorick> 4 for the symetric vehicles
20:22:02 <petern> must be wishful thinking :s
20:22:41 <Belugas> still wrestling with my certif
20:29:52 <TinoDidriksen> Pfft...I don't drink. Alcohol tastes awful.
20:30:55 <Belugas> petern and i are on two different time zones, 5 hours apart
20:31:11 <Prof_Frink> TinoDidriksen: That's why you put it in beer.
20:33:23 <TinoDidriksen> I don't like beer either...except for one or two obscure brands that I can't find again. Tasted like it had no alcohol, but was 12ppv stuff.
20:33:45 <Belugas> true, glx, true. But when it's time to play online, jamming that is, 2:00 am is not as 3:00 am... although in your case it does not really matter ^_^
20:34:05 <Belugas> TinoDidriksen, alcohol does not taste, it's what
20:34:49 <TinoDidriksen> No, alcohol tastes bad. I can taste the same thing from beer, baileys, whiskey, tequila, etc etc...the same foul alcohol taste.
20:35:30 * Belugas has no time nor will to argue.
20:35:30 <eekee> yeah I can taste or at least smell that same element. smell and taste are note entirely seperate sensations
20:35:48 * Belugas likes beer, rhum, wine and is happy aobut it
20:36:02 <Belugas> and i doi respect your tastes
20:42:06 * eekee discover's he's a supertaster!
20:44:13 <petern> conclusive testing then :p
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20:44:56 <fjb> Conditinal ordes are missing a % chance. Could be used to build a load ballancer.
20:45:17 <petern> missing would imply it is supposed to be there
20:45:33 <petern> or rather, "are missing" does
20:46:12 <TinoDidriksen> Load balancing rail network? What's next, packet switched cars?
20:46:24 <fjb> Hm, it would be nice to have that feature.
20:46:53 <petern> balance, random is a terrible scheme for load balancing
20:47:47 <Belugas> buhwhahahahaa!!!! It's just your imagination!
20:48:15 <fjb> Ok, it is not fine grained.
20:49:01 <Belugas> it is... indeed not... it is... laughable
20:49:29 <fjb> Do you have a better idea what to use instead?
20:49:34 <Belugas> honestly... ho... i might just go there. not sure. how many chances that i do decide to actually load my stuff there??
20:49:36 <eekee> randomness can appear to get stuck near one end of their range for quite some time
20:49:41 <Belugas> mmh... let's roll the dices
20:50:17 <fjb> Then it is not worse than no load ballancing.
20:50:25 <eekee> honestly though I find presignals at the begining of dual tracks balance fairly well
20:50:39 <eekee> ... and have done for some time :)
20:51:42 <fjb> That works when splitting parallel tracks.
20:53:31 <fjb> But it does not work when lines of diffent lenght and complexity reach the same station.
20:54:06 <eekee> ah I try to avoid that, yah
20:55:13 <Belugas> what is the problem with load balancing?
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20:59:56 <eekee> actually ottd will route trains the long way around if the direct route is very congested
21:00:23 <eekee> I actually put in a lot of waypoints to prevent that because it usually results in gridlock elsewhere on my network
21:01:37 <eekee> or at least, it used to, perhaps before YAPF
21:01:55 <eekee> maybe NTP still does, I don't know
21:05:05 <Belugas> in other words, you want a magic solution that will clear out the congestion of your networks
21:07:44 <eekee> working on the congestion is what's kept me playing a game I began in 2005 lol. It's the big challenge
21:09:24 <Belugas> indeed, granted, i do understand
21:09:51 <Belugas> and i'm happy PBS is now around, as it helps a bit
21:12:44 <fjb> PBS is great. Single track lines are usable with more than 2 or 3 trains now.
21:19:28 <Belugas> toobad i cannot use it now
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21:41:53 <planetmaker> I didn't find anything definitive in the newgrf specs: how many bits can a single parameter of a newgrf have? 8? 16? 32?
21:43:14 <frosch123> should be mentioned around action 7
21:43:44 <frosch123> though maybe action6 is more likely
21:43:46 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v DorpsGek
21:43:46 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge
21:44:12 <planetmaker> hm... ok. That solves much. :) thank you frosch123
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21:49:15 <DangerBoBalazs> can i have a question?
21:49:41 <planetmaker> you already had one. Want another?
21:50:17 <Belugas> "Can I have a question..." Yo do not want answers??
21:50:21 <DangerBoBalazs> in 0.7.0 i have tiny letters
21:50:40 <DangerBoBalazs> how can switch them to be larger?
21:51:03 <Belugas> if i remeber correctly, on th README.txt, there is stuff about tyhat
21:51:04 <Chruker> if you have a crt screen you can reduce your monitor resolution
21:51:21 <petern> Belugas, i found a perfect solution
21:51:38 <petern> get your boss to buy you duplicates of all your kit
21:51:41 <Belugas> screw the simulatior stuff?
21:51:53 <petern> so you can ... relax ... at work
21:51:53 <planetmaker> DangerBoBalazs: you have to edit your openttd.cfg file
21:52:07 <Belugas> and have them in here, isn't it? :D
21:52:18 <planetmaker> there are three font sizes declared. Each assigned a different font. You can change those
21:52:29 <planetmaker> or something like that
21:52:39 <petern> then, i do the same, though most of mine is software :D
21:52:50 <Belugas> readme.txt readme.txt readme.txt readme.txt readme.txt
21:53:01 <Belugas> but petern,your keyboard is a bit bigger then my guit ;)
21:53:18 <Belugas> either way, i'm tired, i've got to go zhome
21:54:06 <Nite_Owl> and I thought it was a donotreadme.txt
21:55:48 <PeterT> who here is an ottd dev
21:57:10 <TinoDidriksen> Impatient young man...
21:57:24 <Nite_Owl> the lack of patience is astounding
21:57:29 <planetmaker> well. I guess he feared the answers
21:57:45 <planetmaker> he'd been around a bit
21:57:55 <planetmaker> though strange he is
21:58:18 <Nite_Owl> the answer is: there is no spoon
21:59:59 <fjb> Is there a way to disable one of the ais in a running game?
22:03:19 <frosch123> press ctrl-alt-c, switch to the money cheat, reduce the money to -10M, switch back
22:03:41 <frosch123> s/money cheat/company/ actually
22:04:02 <SmatZ> frosch123: not possible (for some reason)
22:04:24 <fjb> stop_ai sounds like a solution.
22:07:59 <frosch123> oh, the money thingie :(
22:08:30 <DangerBoBalazs> sorry, i have the problem: how can i switch the letters to the letters like in 0.6.x?
22:09:10 <SmatZ> DangerBoBalazs: try switching to English
22:10:15 <DangerBoBalazs> the letters do not change
22:10:54 <frosch123> are there lots of black boxes on the title screen?
22:11:39 <DangerBoBalazs> when i use the the other base graphics set
22:12:01 <frosch123> the base graphcis can also change the font
22:13:35 <DangerBoBalazs> but when i installed the game, i noticed, that my favoirite letters have changed
22:15:15 <DangerBoBalazs> maybe this is okay, but when i click on the map i can't read the words in that
22:16:31 <DangerBoBalazs> the letters are unreadable
22:18:37 <DangerBoBalazs> ok, and what should i write to the three places? Thahoma or "Tahoma"? and thats all?
22:25:13 <Chruker> Does the number of terraforming operations matter in respect to town opinion? ex. if leveling an area, will it then hurt equally if I operate on each tile seperately vs. ex. flatten tiles.
22:25:34 <frosch123> terraforming does not hurt, only killing trees
22:27:24 <Chruker> o'rly? nevermind then
22:28:29 <Nite_Owl> but if you terraform a tile with a tree on it does kill the tree
22:29:24 <DangerBoBalazs> ok thanks your help
22:29:54 <DangerBoBalazs> i changed the fonts, thanks
22:33:44 <fjb> My cargodist game just died. :-(
22:46:39 <PeterT> anyone want to join me on ! ! !SimulationNation World Map?
22:47:49 *** Frostregen has joined #openttd
22:48:42 * fjb doesn't join servers with ! in front of their name.
22:49:48 <Prof_Frink> openttd should sort servers alphabetically by first alphanumerical character
22:50:39 <Nite_Owl> patience is still a virtue
22:51:30 <eekee> are there any other criterion it could sort by? Such as time since game start?
22:54:23 <fjb> First alphanumerical character would give you aaaaaaaaaaaaaSimulationNation World Map instead.
22:56:16 <Prof_Frink> OK, reverse sort by how stupid the name is ;)
22:58:34 <SmatZ> there was some "rate lameness of my nick" bot somewhere...
23:00:54 *** DangerBoBalazs has quit IRC
23:02:10 <eekee> could set up a ... what's that learnign algorhythm used for junk mail? Would have to teach it of course
23:02:57 <Nite_Owl> I need to feed - later all
23:03:40 <eekee> "enjoy your dinner" says the guy who feels like his guts are on fire.::)
23:08:25 *** goodger has joined #openttd
23:10:48 <eekee> I'n not very well, is all
23:11:11 <SmatZ> I hope you will get well soon :)
23:11:41 <SmatZ> your nick ... it reminds me of snakes for some reason
23:11:53 <SmatZ> maybe because of pokemon?
23:12:52 <eekee> *shrugs* I think I was first called this before pokemon existed, but I could be wrong
23:13:38 <SmatZ> my brother got N64 just to play some pokemon games there...
23:13:49 <SmatZ> I wish I got presents like him when I was in his age :-/
23:16:23 <SmatZ> hmm I was affected more than I wanted :-/
23:16:53 <SmatZ> (btw it's "snake" reversed... innovative :-p
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23:21:47 <SmatZ> and eekee is eekee reversed :-p
23:23:48 <eekee> I has a palindromic naem!
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23:40:12 <Xaroth> [eekee]: *shrugs* I think I was first called this before pokemon existed, but I could be wrong << then you must be quite old :P
23:41:16 <eekee> well I guess I'm wrong, if it's either that or admitting I'm old. :}
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23:54:29 <eekee> I think I made my maglevs twise as wide or half as high as they should be
23:56:01 <eekee> I've been working on 1 high 2 wide 5 long but I'm wondering if it should be 1 high 1 wide 2.5 or 3 long
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continue to next day ⏵
