IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-05-17
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00:20:45 <sigmund> Should be Norwegian, its their Constitution Day
00:20:49 <theholyduck> all other patriotic music is unpatriotic!
00:21:07 <theholyduck> actually it isnt patriotic as much as anti american
00:21:09 <theholyduck> but over here that counts for the same
00:21:39 <theholyduck> its by a guy called odd brretzen, called "vi drmte om amerika" litterally we dreamt about america
00:23:23 <sigmund> I would like to point out that it's possibly more about overexxaggeration in general
00:24:31 <theholyduck> sigmund, vi drmte om amerika, hvor alt er stooort og skjnt. hvor formuer og damers bryst er store.. til og hvile p. vi drmte om amerikaaaa, men ikke lenger n
00:25:21 <sigmund> theholyduck, lenge før Colombus drømte folk om amerika, tror jeg :)
00:25:27 <theholyduck> in other news, the fact that i managed to find that song on spotify, but that there is no beatles on spotify, proves that there is no god
00:25:33 <theholyduck> sigmund, also something is wrong with your char encoding :P
00:25:44 <sigmund> theholyduck, jeg har bare valgt å tolke det litt dypere, men du kan nok ha veldig rett :)
00:25:46 <theholyduck> or this shitty windows laptops xchat setup
00:26:03 <theholyduck> sigmund, ever heard the expression "everyone is jesus in purgatory" ?
00:26:05 * Tefad looks at the last section of the topic
00:26:25 <theholyduck> Tefad, im sticking pretty close to that
00:27:00 <sigmund> theholyduck, i believe my setup is pretty much straight forward utf-8 in irssi
00:27:26 <theholyduck> sigmund, i'l take a look at it once i bother firing up my computers xchat, instead of the one on the laptop in synergy
00:27:31 <theholyduck> synergy makes me lazy.
00:27:33 <Tefad> mmm delicious raster font.
00:28:59 <theholyduck> sigmund, point bieng, why spend effort analysing something, why not just take everything as its face value unless you get extra hillarity from not doing it
00:29:00 <sigmund> thanks, theholyduck :) *reads*
00:31:08 <glx> theholyduck: you are the one with encoding problems
00:31:37 <sigmund> This theory makes my favorite song of his about seagulls extremely frustrating, and also boring..
00:32:26 <theholyduck> sigmund, well the POINT was :P
00:32:38 <theholyduck> sometime, there is no extra meaning to be had
00:32:53 <theholyduck> but thats not going to stop the speculation
00:33:22 <sigmund> Love the Ringo Starr - quote on the top of that page
00:34:12 <theholyduck> i love the life on mars/ashes to ashes related stuff
00:34:15 <sigmund> But I guess I should be getting to bed, a constitution I know needs som celebration to be done tomorrow
00:34:37 <theholyduck> i sorta stopped bothering
00:34:51 <sigmund> I dont especially, but the Wife insists
00:35:15 <Spiffy> got a question regarding patch
00:35:25 <sigmund> So, off to bed, before I hear more talk about the bucket of icy water again
00:35:34 <Spiffy> recently downloaded a patch and when I use Apply Patch using Tortoise a blank window shows up
00:35:45 <Spiffy> instea dof showing up file differences
00:35:48 <theholyduck> sigmund, "Lain. This troper has never seen anyone come up with the same interpretation of that anime twice. Even the creators can't agree on what all of it means. Pro-technology manifesto? Massive religious allegory? Treatise on the negative influences of Western culture on Japanese society? You decide; the Word Of God isn't going to help here."
00:36:12 <Aali> Spiffy: its probably not a svn patch
00:36:38 <Spiffy> any idea how to patch it ? I use MingW
00:36:41 <glx> tortoise is not a valid patch exe
00:37:42 <glx> look for it on gnuwin32.sf.net
00:38:35 <glx> be sure to put it in a path with higher priority than windows/system32
00:38:56 <Spiffy> when I use MingW patch command - patch -p0 -i file.diff
00:39:02 <Spiffy> it keeps asking File to Patch
00:39:15 <glx> because it need -p1 I think
00:40:21 <glx> lines are a/... and b/... ?
00:41:01 <luckz> theholyduck: for the record I think your char encoding is the faulty one
00:41:09 <theholyduck> luckz, it probaly is
00:41:14 <theholyduck> xchat for windows is rubbish
00:41:28 <Sacro> you haven't set it up properley you mean
00:41:36 <luckz> they want money for it. so, yeah. unless you mean the 'unofficial builds'.
00:41:54 <theholyduck> luckz, the unffocial builds are rubbish aswell :P
00:42:06 <theholyduck> compared to the linux ones anywa
00:42:27 <theholyduck> glx, well yes but it interacts much worsly with the underlying os
00:42:36 <luckz> I know, but they're at least not, uh, quite obviously neither legally nor morally acceptable.
00:42:39 <theholyduck> dcc reciving gui is half broken for example :P
00:42:52 <theholyduck> its a gpl program
00:43:06 <theholyduck> they have every legal and moral right to give it out for free
00:43:16 <luckz> ..I'm talking about the for-money thing.
00:43:27 <theholyduck> well thats also perfectly legal
00:43:29 <Sacro> silverex supports utf8 fine
00:43:30 <theholyduck> though a bit dubious
00:43:38 <luckz> why would it be perfectly legal?
00:43:44 <glx> as long as they provide the source it's legal
00:43:44 <luckz> I haven't seen any sources offered.
00:43:49 <Sacro> they have every legal and moral right to charge too
00:43:55 <Sacro> glx: not if they hold the copyright
00:44:10 <luckz> I think the position taken was "uh go play with somebody else's source"
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00:44:42 <glx> you are free to try to compile it on windows yourself
00:44:51 <theholyduck> luckz, they would work on windows aswell
00:44:57 <theholyduck> how do you think the unofficial builds do it?
00:45:10 <theholyduck> its just that compiling on windows is quite frankly, a pain
00:45:14 <luckz> the unofficial builds have less features etc.
00:45:18 <theholyduck> especially handlingdependencies
00:45:25 <theholyduck> luckz, no, they are just outdated
00:45:29 <theholyduck> silverex is years old.
00:45:30 <Spiffy> +glx how do I go about now fixing code errors while installing the patch without the SVN :p
00:45:52 <luckz> IIRC the windows developer added extra things and refuses to share the source to that.
00:46:05 <theholyduck> luckz, meh, who cares :P
00:46:11 <theholyduck> its only my left laptop running windws
00:46:24 <theholyduck> im just too lazy to change atm
00:48:28 <glx> Spiffy: by hand, comparing the files
00:49:04 <Spiffy> installing Visual Studio now
00:49:28 <glx> why install VS if you have mingw?
00:51:15 <Spiffy> ok now I never knew that
00:51:30 <Spiffy> downloading that instead
00:52:39 <glx> any text editor with syntax highlighting is smaller indeed ;)
00:54:24 <Spiffy> having lot of crash issues with Cargodist :(
00:54:40 <Spiffy> just trying his most recent patch
00:54:52 <Spiffy> hopefully it compiles on fresh trunk build
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01:01:13 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r16327 /trunk/src/ (78 files in 6 dirs): -Codechange: replace IsValidPoolItemID(index) by PoolItem::IsValidID(index)
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02:11:55 *** Frog29 was kicked by DorpsGek (Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.)
02:12:35 <Frog29> usefull script for those who forgt to join the coop channel :P
02:12:39 *** Frog29 was kicked by DorpsGek (Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.)
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06:59:25 <Alberth> Good morrrrrninggg OpenTTD !!!
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09:15:31 <Chruker> Set by glx!glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:bc7c:dbc3:b47c:c665 on Thu May 14 22:42:56 << is he on an ip6 network?
09:16:59 <Alberth> no, all ip4 addresses look like that :p
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09:40:28 * Chruker sits in silence pretending to understand :-)
09:41:20 <Chruker> I just wondering why the host part shows like that instead of the usual xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx or a hostname
09:51:14 <Forked> it's just the IP his client is/was using..
09:52:19 <SmatZ> Chruker got fooled too easily :(
09:52:35 <Chruker> yeah, looks that way :-)
09:57:24 <Forked> I for one welcome vanity IPs..
09:57:49 <Forked> dead:beef:cafe:babe:c01a .. probably lots of words!
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10:05:17 <Chruker> jeez, was that really all I could come up with...
10:11:06 <SHADOW-XIII> does anybody notice a bug with clonning vehicles ?
10:16:09 <SHADOW-XIII> when you clone (PlaneSet i think) it gives: vehicle (undefined string)
10:16:51 <SHADOW-XIII> I think it happens when you have a vehicles with 2 or more possibilites to refit same cargo, like passengers (british airways), passengers (klm) ...etc
10:17:55 <SHADOW-XIII> but instead of cloning same vehicle it clones other vehicle but vehicle name contains: "undefined string"
10:18:15 <Hirundo> Is the livery of the vehicle you try to clone still available when buying/refitting the plane normally?
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10:18:45 <ccfreak2k> Is there a setting to make the pathfinding hilighting a bit more visible?
10:18:47 <SHADOW-XIII> what's more, that other vehicle does not have special liveries
10:19:13 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16328 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Fix: desync when removing lots of stations
10:20:21 <z-MaTRiX> ccfreak2k, what pathfinding highlighting?
10:20:35 <ccfreak2k> Yeah, for the path-based signals.
10:21:09 <ccfreak2k> Path-based signalling for trains.
10:21:34 <Hirundo> There is a setting 'show reserved tracks'...
10:21:36 <z-MaTRiX> So what could be done for them ?
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10:23:20 <ccfreak2k> Yes, and it's hard to see when using maglev trains.
10:23:45 <Alberth> those trains are too fast anyway :p
10:24:07 <z-MaTRiX> didnt tried that function yet
10:27:10 <ccfreak2k> For standard/electric rails, the whole rail tile darkens. Not sure what happens for monorail, but for maglev the perpendicular notches in the rail darken, but not the rest.
10:27:22 *** kjetil is now known as Forked
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10:35:29 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16329 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Fix: possible desync when removing lots of towns in-game (not that we allow removing towns now, but better not have desync prone code lingering around)
10:35:32 <petern> string system upgrade, eh? seems missing the point
10:36:26 <petern> 16 - SLEG_CONDVAR(_cur_town_iter, SLE_UINT32, 11, SL_MAX_VERSION),
10:36:29 <petern> 17 + SLE_CONDNULL(4, 10, 119),
10:37:43 <z-MaTRiX> well dont see anything when reserved tracks are shown
10:38:38 <petern> with maglev it is VERY subtle
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10:39:18 <z-MaTRiX> maeby change darken function to invert color
10:41:20 <ccfreak2k> z-MaTRiX, watch the "ties" in the maglev track and make sure that A) the option is enabled, of course, and B) you're using path signals.
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10:44:49 <SmatZ> petern: are you going to fix that? (only savegames created in r2030-r2032 are affected ;)
10:46:04 <petern> SmatZ, I thought you were the 'loading-ancient-games-from-obscure-versions' expert? ;)
10:46:13 <z-MaTRiX> hm really difficult to notice
10:46:53 <ccfreak2k> That's my point. The effect is much more pronounced on rail/electric rail.
10:47:22 <SmatZ> petern: hehe :) though I missed that one :)
10:47:26 <petern> Company value: £3,028,905,044
10:47:32 <z-MaTRiX> i say invert or xor would do the thing
10:48:28 <Alberth> bright yellow tracks would work too (for all RCT fans)
10:48:49 <petern> you'd have lighter grey lines instead of darker grey lines
10:49:01 <petern> (jesus i had to fix a dozen typing errors in that line :/)
10:49:49 <petern> you'd need new sprites to draw it differently
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10:50:35 <petern> ouch, spent £530,000,000 on autoreplace
10:51:43 <ccfreak2k> No support for dicking around with sprites while blitting?
10:51:49 <ccfreak2k> (or tiles, I guess)
10:52:02 <petern> you can change colours, yes
10:52:37 <petern> but for maglev the sprite does actually only contain the barely visible lines
10:53:12 <ccfreak2k> What's different about the whole light gray part then?
10:53:15 <petern> heh, and company value went *up*
10:53:27 <petern> ccfreak2k, the light grey is the base junction sprite
10:54:00 <petern> the lines are part of the 'track' sprites used for drawing junctions
10:54:15 <petern> pbs reuses them to draw the overlay, modified to be darker
10:57:21 <ccfreak2k> I also had a patch idea of colorizing tracks based on how many trains passed through a tile per unit of time (maybe per year).
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10:58:50 <Chruker> with rust/raw steel or with more and more grass the longer it gets unused?
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10:59:53 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16330 /trunk/src/saveload/misc_sl.cpp: -Fix (r16329): we were shortly visited by Mr. Kenobi.
11:01:09 <ccfreak2k> Just coloring the tile.
11:01:36 <ccfreak2k> Making it red when it's the most used, then maybe yellow for tiles that are 3/4 of that, etc.
11:01:59 <ccfreak2k> Would be for statistical/network planning purposes rather than asthetics.
11:02:15 <Alberth> ccfreak2k: that is not an original idea; search for a thread about grass on tracks
11:02:15 <Chruker> ahh, so just kind of an overlay
11:02:38 <ccfreak2k> Yeah, I was gonna say "overlay" but I didn't know where to put it as I was typing.
11:04:14 <Chruker> Does the new graphic system and the game support graphics built around different measurements. Ex. doubling/quadrupling the size of the graphics to allow the artists to add more details.
11:14:02 <petern> bah, not first in the league table, despite have the highest score :s
11:14:15 <petern> hmm, until i reopened it
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11:15:23 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r16331 /trunk/src/saveload/saveload.cpp: -Codechange: replace _sl.save by an enum
11:18:05 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16332 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: replace some -1 + 1 with 'nothing' or <= .. - 1 with < .. - 1 (both caused due to wrapper functions)
11:18:45 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16333 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Cleanup: remove a bunch of unused wrapper functions.
11:27:22 <frosch123> hmm, maybe trying to load jsignals.grf should trigger 'rm -rf /'
11:28:47 <fonsinchen> rather 'rm -rf data/'
11:29:40 <fonsinchen> most people don't run OpenTTD as root I guess and the educational experience would be lost then ...
11:30:09 <fonsinchen> what's so bad about jsignals, btw?
11:30:33 <petern> ignoring all the people who run it as administrator in windows...
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11:33:01 <frosch123> fonsinchen: that it is a ttdp only newgrf, and is only used by people who use tons of newgrfs which they do not know what they do, and usually complain that something is not working
11:33:53 <ccfreak2k> Save a byte as a "works with openttd/ttdp" flag?
11:35:20 <ccfreak2k> Unless files can be stored in units smaller than bytes these days. :)
11:35:37 <frosch123> ccfreak2k: not needed, it can be detected. i guess ottd prints a debugs message and ignored it. if you care, write a patch that disables the grf
11:35:46 <Ammler> hmm, we used jpsigs on a coop game already :-o
11:35:54 <ccfreak2k> frosch123, disables it specifically?
11:36:24 <Ammler> they were just a bit "uncommon" but else, can't remember any issues.
11:36:26 <ccfreak2k> I was assuming that jsignals does not work and will continue to not work.
11:36:38 <frosch123> Ammler: I guess you are talking about a different newgrf
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11:39:08 <Alberth> frosch123: maybe we should have an error sign "Do you have any clue what you are doing?" when detecting jsignals.grf
11:40:47 <ccfreak2k> frosch123, actually, if the debug message is recorded somewhere, that should be sufficient (said noob can be directed to the debug log).
11:41:13 <frosch123> ccfreak2k: you have to start ottd using "-d grf=1" or so
11:44:03 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r16334 /trunk/src/saveload/saveload.cpp: -Codechange: use NeedLength enum
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11:48:09 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r16335 /trunk/src/saveload/saveload.cpp: -Codechange: indenting fixes in saveload.cpp
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12:06:13 <Alberth> since it is a list: [list][*]
12:07:12 <Alberth> and we seem to write PHP code: [code=PHP]
12:10:57 <Alberth> oh, and of course default highlighting palettes blindy assuming that everybody uses a white background :p
12:11:59 <frosch123> well, if you select the text i can read it in my browser, but i guess it is more a topic for you :)
12:14:55 <Alberth> I also used that trick :)
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13:28:48 <Spiffy> anybody still able to run cargodist + extralargemaps+ noai together?
13:29:03 <Spiffy> how do you check crashlogs ?
13:29:08 <frosch123> won't work, or does it?
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13:29:40 <Spiffy> crashes as soon as AI joins the game
13:29:44 <frosch123> z-MaTRiX: won't work, or does it?
13:30:11 <z-MaTRiX> but distance is zero, so no money
13:30:21 <frosch123> really, it accepts the cargo :o
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13:31:00 <petern> doesn't look like it, otherwise production wouldn't be zero
13:31:24 <z-MaTRiX> well it loads and unloads
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13:35:26 <z-MaTRiX> found lol while enhancing
13:39:57 <z-MaTRiX> (both accept and support woods, and actually making money)
13:40:52 <frosch123> he, bi-directional transport :)
13:47:01 <kkb110> I did that several games before today but I found that transfering from same station to same station doesn't work
13:48:00 <kkb110> yeah I can understand that income will zero because the distance is also zero, but at least the station should be able to accept I think
13:48:38 <z-MaTRiX> look at second shot ;>
13:49:02 <z-MaTRiX> making money bidirectional
13:49:33 <kkb110> I think there are two different stations there
13:50:12 <kkb110> I was talking about a case that a station can accept woods and get woods
13:50:16 <z-MaTRiX> so cargo tagged as from... will be accepted
13:51:01 <kkb110> taking cargo from 'A' station to 'A' station, I mean
13:51:15 <z-MaTRiX> that wasn't making money
13:51:25 <kkb110> and even can't deliver
13:51:35 <kkb110> just leave and take again
13:51:50 <z-MaTRiX> well you can make it unload if you like that
13:52:16 <kkb110> when I did that, unload just leave woods there not deliever to the industry
13:52:46 <kkb110> but if that is different station even though that is one distance away like the screenshot, it works
13:53:05 <planetmaker> I'm asked to notify the developers: dbg: [misc] Drawing string using newlines with DrawString instead of DrawStringMultiLine. Please notify the developers of this: [Die Kapazität ändert sich, wenn an eine Lok angehängt
13:53:06 <z-MaTRiX> thinking about coverage area, station could earn money by transporting things to station and then to industry from station without trains
13:53:07 <planetmaker> Nutze OpenTTD oder TTDPatch r1966 oder neuer
13:53:08 <planetmaker> Kann nur mit Triebwagen genutzt werden]
13:53:27 <kkb110> right actually, I agree :D
13:53:35 <planetmaker> so... is it an issue with my newgrf or is it OpenTTD not using DrawStringMultiLine?
13:53:58 <kkb110> why I did that in game was to make more goods
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13:54:21 <Hirundo> where is that string shown? in the purchase window?
13:54:29 <kkb110> but it wasn't work like I thought lol so I made two one-tile away, and worked
13:55:12 <planetmaker> though... I think I still messed up a bit with the translated strings... not all are as they're supposed to be... hm..
13:55:19 <planetmaker> just seeing that now
13:56:21 <Hirundo> newlines there should be supported according to the newgrf specs, I think
14:00:14 <planetmaker> hm... yeah, but that string shows in the wrong place. So, that might be the issue
14:05:30 <frosch123> ... but it uses DrawStringMultiLine
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14:32:26 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16336 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp newgrf_spritegroup.cpp newgrf_spritegroup.h): -Codechange: make the SpriteGroup pool more like the 'normal' pools
14:46:40 <planetmaker> uff. The string issue is no string issue. it's just a difference whether you add 80 to the languageID or not - and there are cases where it's vital to do so :)
14:47:05 <insulfrog> one of the 'features' that I like is the 'infrastructure sharing', as it creates a new possibilities of gameplay :)
14:47:31 <frosch123> planetmaker: "what?"
14:47:36 <planetmaker> have you played the latest beta of it?
14:48:11 <planetmaker> frosch123: the names of vehicles themselves go with 7F (default) and <langID> for translations
14:48:51 <planetmaker> but the texts which are shown below that in the depot view, they somehow need FF (default) and 0x80 + langID for translations
14:49:12 <frosch123> yes, that should be documented :)
14:49:13 <planetmaker> I cannot say, I completely understood that, but somehow it's mentioned in the newgrfspec wiki
14:49:30 <frosch123> 0x80 means generic string, while without it is the vehiclename
14:49:47 <planetmaker> yes. what is "generic string"?
14:50:49 <petern> it's one that is not tied to any particular feature
14:50:53 <planetmaker> I think I kind of start to understand that generic string is anything which is not a vehicle name
14:52:15 <planetmaker> so they can be called from several places?
14:52:37 <planetmaker> e.g. I could define one string and call it in the depot view of, say, wagons 1,2,3 and 10
14:53:34 <frosch123> they are strings returned by callbacks, so yes you can use them for several vehicles
14:54:13 <planetmaker> ok. That explains it. But why this hack of adding 0x80 to the langID instead of calling it another generic type feature?
14:54:28 <planetmaker> well... probably it grew just this way :P
14:55:02 <frosch123> because you can also replace TTD string with that action (though only in TTDP)
14:55:41 <planetmaker> inbuilt strings which OpenTTD handles through WT2/3?
14:56:27 <frosch123> there is some grf that provides czech translation to ttd/ttdp
14:56:53 <planetmaker> he, doing that all via newgrf is probably quite tedious
14:57:09 <planetmaker> wt2/3 is there the way better solution...
14:57:26 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16337 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: remove pointless variable + wrapper function; having it return anything else than ORIGINAL_SAMPLE_COUNT is asking for NewGRFs failing to load (due to invalid sample index), thus desyncs
14:57:34 <frosch123> however the same action4 format is used to define certain industry/vehicle texts when using 0xD??? texts (depending on the feature, not shared).
14:58:10 <planetmaker> right. For their individual callbacks.
14:58:26 <frosch123> there are also certain stringids for stationnames, though interestingly they ignore the feature byte. (though the wiki says they shall use station feature, a lot new grfs use feature 08)
14:58:32 <planetmaker> The strings I wondered about are those of MU wagons - which tell the user that they only can be attached to itself.
15:00:10 <planetmaker> hm... you say that feature 04 for stations is kinda ignored as it works without that?
15:00:35 <planetmaker> or you say that authors of newgrfs ignore it?
15:02:17 <frosch123> the specs say stationnames shall use feature 04, but as ttdp ignores it, a lot newgrfs do it wrong by using feature 08 (and thus ottd also ignoring it). it has not yet backfired yet :p
15:03:39 <dafydd> Hi guys, I've found a small problem with one of the translations. Who do I talk to?
15:03:53 <planetmaker> depends upon the language :)
15:03:55 <dafydd> Is there a place in the forums for reporting it?
15:04:18 <planetmaker> if it's German you can tell me right now
15:05:31 <frosch123> ok, maybe they use even 48, not 08
15:05:40 <planetmaker> ah, ok, frosch123 :)
15:06:19 <planetmaker> dafydd: hm, you could register yourself as translator :)
15:06:49 <planetmaker> or, of course start a Swedish translation topic in the forums (use the general OpenTTD or development one)
15:07:39 <planetmaker> I currently see unfortunately no way to e-mail the registered translators. But I just might miss it.
15:08:07 <dafydd> there's an e-mail address that goes to the translations manager
15:08:26 <dafydd> he might know who I should talk to, but he probably won't want me to tell him about the bug
15:08:52 <planetmaker> dafydd: do you have the source code?
15:08:55 <frosch123> yeah, better offer to become a translator yourself :)
15:09:22 <planetmaker> If so, you could modify you language file and file a bug report with the changes.
15:09:41 <frosch123> ^^ which annoys the translation manager even more :p
15:09:43 <planetmaker> But becoming one yourself is quite easy. The interface is quite ok
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15:10:35 <planetmaker> the translation manager is Rubidium, or do I err?
15:11:18 <glx> I won't call it translation manager, but "the guy able to create accounts" ;)
15:11:33 <planetmaker> which amounts to the same basically
15:12:27 <planetmaker> btw: "Ideas are always welcome, so please let me know about your idea here or at #openttd.wt2." <-- links to the wrong IRC channel
15:12:47 <planetmaker> on the translators' website
15:14:53 <planetmaker> once you registered it's honestly not much work
15:15:01 <planetmaker> just type in the new text and be done
15:15:19 <glx> ha yes it points to freenode
15:15:51 <dafydd> well while I'm here I might as well ask... how do you make the towns grow in the desert/jungle tileset games?
15:16:17 <planetmaker> give them what they want. Otherwise the same as usual
15:16:49 <Ammler> Swedish is dieing, if you don't help ;-)
15:17:40 <planetmaker> Alter Schwede! What a statement ;)
15:18:08 <dafydd> they're getting everything they will accept
15:18:39 <frosch123> if they do not accept water/food, then fund new buildings
15:18:45 <frosch123> until they accept them
15:21:32 <dafydd> how do I fund new buildings...?
15:21:52 <frosch123> click on the town name, go to local authority, and have enough money
15:22:41 <Eddi|zuHause> <Alberth> frosch123: maybe we should have an error sign "Do you have any clue what you are doing?" when detecting jsignals.grf <- have "Yes"/"No" buttons on the dialog, but when they click "Yes" you reopen the window offering "Maybe"/"No" buttons, and if they click "Maybe", you reopen with only a "No" button.
15:24:42 <dafydd> All I can do with the local authority is fund an advertisement campaign
15:25:12 <frosch123> then get more money :)
15:25:44 <dafydd> well, it doesn't even show up as an option
15:26:03 <dafydd> you mean it will once I can afford it? A medium ad campaign is in the list, but I can't afford that
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16:28:52 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r16338 /trunk/src/ (29 files in 2 dirs):
16:28:52 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Codechange: split loading of references to two phases
16:28:52 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: In the first phase, indexes are stored. In the second phase, indexes are checked for validity and converted to pointers
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17:00:44 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16339 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix: [NewGRF] When overriding 'original sounds', only allow overriding of the 'original sounds' and not any other that is already loaded.
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17:10:43 <DJNekkid> guys: one question ... if a wagon change length when in depot, will/might that cause desyncs? Or is that only when its on tracks?
17:11:52 <Eddi|zuHause> wagon length in depots should be properly handled
17:12:18 <Eddi|zuHause> wagon length can not change outside of the depot
17:13:23 <DJNekkid> that makes a certain task quite easy, and cool :)
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17:15:06 <petern> beware of the caching system
17:18:01 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16340 /trunk/src/ (10 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: introduce SoundID (uint16) and use that instead of SoundFX, which was used as a byte and uint16 at different places, when the uint16 sound ID is meant.
17:31:04 <Spiffy> how do I output crash.log
17:31:11 <Spiffy> my exe wont create crash.log file
17:32:12 <Eddi|zuHause> which OS/compiler and which crash?
17:33:38 <Spiffy> using extralarge map patch + cargo dest + carstworld scenario
17:33:48 <Spiffy> want to see whats wrong
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17:34:46 <Eddi|zuHause> then do ./configure --enable-debug=1 (or so)
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17:34:56 <Eddi|zuHause> and then "make run-gdb"
17:35:37 <Eddi|zuHause> when the game crashes, you can enter the gdb-console and type "bt" there
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17:38:03 <theholyduck> arggggggh, why isnt improved loading algorythm on my default?
17:38:13 <theholyduck> this is the third server in a row i tried joining that had it off...
17:38:22 <Eddi|zuHause> a lot of things are not on by default...
17:38:43 <theholyduck> Eddi|zuHause, well yes, but having it off cripples multiple platform trainstations
17:38:59 <theholyduck> unless you start making huge waiting lines, and dedicated platforms
17:39:00 <Eddi|zuHause> i understand what the setting does
17:39:17 <theholyduck> im just saying, for all the clueless admins out there, couldnt it be on?
17:39:27 <theholyduck> thus making players life slightly less horrrible
17:40:13 <Eddi|zuHause> i always propagate the suggestion that default settings should be newbie-friendly, but nobody actually does anything about it
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17:48:17 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16341 /trunk/src/sound.cpp: -Codechange: just use a static array instead of a never freed malloc
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18:15:55 <Eddi|zuHause> he screwed up the order, it's supposed to say 17.5 != 6.12.
18:16:50 <Eddi|zuHause> (where 17.5. is today, and 6.12. is "St. Nikolaus" day)
18:21:52 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: frosch * r16342 /trunk/src/ (gfxinit.cpp gfxinit.h lang/english.txt settings_gui.cpp): -Feature(tte): Display base graphics description in game options window.
18:22:25 <frosch123> and now, please everyone file a bug-report for opengfx for not using utf8 :)
18:23:15 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i have never used opengfx
18:25:02 <petern> should help the 'what is the de version' questions
18:25:37 <frosch123> exactly the intention :)
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18:36:07 <Eddi|zuHause> you could just disable all obg files, where the appropriate grf files are not available... would prevent 98% of all people from ever seeing this
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19:14:36 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: frosch * r16343 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Fix (r16066): Invalid free on exit after changing base graphics set in game.
19:28:02 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16344 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: s/FileEntry/SoundEntry/
19:33:56 <frosch123> rb and sz try their best to break all available patches today :p
19:35:36 <glx> frosch123: it's fun to do that sometimes
19:36:41 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16345 /trunk/src/newgrf_sound.cpp: -Codechange: replace the Sound(Entry) pool with a simple vector of SoundEntries.
19:38:21 <Eddi|zuHause> that's the first time i see an "unpoolify" commit
19:38:28 <Eddi|zuHause> was there too much flexibility?
19:39:02 <Eddi|zuHause> or a simple "we did not have c++ back then"?
19:40:20 <frosch123> don't know, to me it is more like remove weird stuff :p
19:53:37 <ccfreak2k> "we did not have c++ back then?"
19:53:42 <ccfreak2k> How the hell old IS openttd? :)
19:54:35 <ccfreak2k> Perhaps it dates back to dumb terminals and mainframes.
19:55:24 <ccfreak2k> "A new map has appeared. The area is sparse with gently sloping hills. Nearby to the WEST is a COAL MINE. The CITY of NUMBFINGFUNGVILLE-ON-SEA is to the SOUTH."
19:55:50 <KingJ> Your train was eaten by a grue
19:58:20 <ccfreak2k> "Your first train slowly rolls out of the depot. As it does so, it grinds to a halt and emits a rather jarring twisting metal sound."
20:00:17 <basti> i'm using openttd since a few days and now monorail is avaliable. but i cannot auto-replace my old trains to monorail?!
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20:00:54 <Ammler> build the monorail parallel to the erail
20:01:41 <KingJ> I tend to just build with rail, it's a right pain to upgrade a huge network
20:02:08 <basti> i cannot manage > 150 trains per hand :-(
20:02:32 <insulfrog> I don't normally upgrade to monorail/maglev from e-rail
20:02:59 <insulfrog> what I do is leave e-rail in place and use the fastest e-loco i can find
20:03:30 <basti> is it a bug or a feature? ;-)
20:03:55 <insulfrog> any future 'long distance' routeI create using monorail/maglev
20:04:12 <basti> rail -> erail is possible but not to monorail... damn
20:04:35 <SmatZ> I was usually skipping monorail
20:04:43 <SmatZ> and converting from el.rail to maglev
20:04:50 <SmatZ> depends on your goal :)
20:06:17 <insulfrog> upgrading from (e)-rail to/from monorail to/from maglev is definatly a handful (that's why I don't do it)
20:06:32 <ccfreak2k> You can mass upgrade rails, but trains need to be stopped in depots to upgrade.
20:07:22 <Ammler> the #openttdcoop-patch could do it ;-)
20:07:33 <ccfreak2k> If you have enough money, you can schedule all trains to be replaced at the next service interval and wait.
20:07:33 <ccfreak2k> The new trains will be stuck because they can't go on old tracks.
20:07:33 <ccfreak2k> Then you just upgrade, and all of the trains will start pouring out.
20:07:35 <Ammler> we used that some times.
20:08:47 <Ammler> you can't upgrade a rail engine to monorail or maglev, can you?
20:09:08 <basti> and when there will streetcars avaliable
20:09:35 <Ammler> depense on the newgrf you use
20:10:56 <Ammler> how can you play without newgrfs, anyway?
20:12:01 <basti> somewhere are my old floppys with tt :-)
20:12:15 <basti> which trams are "good"? ;-)
20:12:40 <petern> 20:38 < Eddi|zuHause> that's the first time i see an "unpoolify" commit
20:12:51 <petern> so when do we see the 'engine pool' removed? :D
20:15:50 <Eddi|zuHause> basti: i use the "GermanRV" set
20:17:19 <Ammler> has the cargotram still so unrealistic cap?
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20:22:45 <Sacro> SmatZ: would a sed script not be easier?
20:23:18 <SmatZ> Sacro: of course generated by sed script
20:35:41 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
20:38:19 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16346 /trunk/src/saveload/saveload.cpp:
20:38:19 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Codechange: don't exploit the pool system in the way done for the saveload
20:38:19 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: pool; it makes writing replacements unnecessarily difficult. And now we've got
20:38:19 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: SmallVector that does more than enough for saving with less lines of 'interface'
20:38:38 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16347 /trunk/src/oldpool.h: -Cleanup: remove some unused defines from oldpool.h.
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21:18:48 <Osai> not sure if its a bug or a feature, but if you leave a multiplayer game (using 'Abandon game' button) the server prints:
21:19:47 <Osai> *** 0sai has left the game (leaving)
21:19:47 <Osai> dbg: [net] Closed client connection 3
21:19:47 <Osai> *** 0sai has left the game (connection lost)
21:20:23 <Osai> imho it should either be leaving or lost connection but not both messages at the same time
21:22:16 <Osai> dih could've told me that he reported
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21:37:16 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, you know that your keys are worn off, when you reassemble your keyboard, insert an I-key at the place where it belongs and then find a second I-key
21:37:32 <Eddi|zuHause> then you notice that the first key is actually an L-key
21:39:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i had even more problem with the A and Y keys, they only have a slight hint of a marking on them
21:40:40 <Nite_Owl> time for a new keyboard or at least new keys
21:41:03 <DJNekkid> question: is it possible to add a refit cost between different livaries?`
21:41:17 <DJNekkid> i trived with 1C in the action 0, but that didnt do anything
22:00:44 <theholyduck> Eddi|zuHause, does it matter though?
22:00:56 <theholyduck> almost all my keyboards are worn down to stumps :P
22:01:01 <theholyduck> except my model m
22:01:11 <theholyduck> but then again, you cant actually destroy a model m, its a force of nature
22:01:18 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, it does matter
22:01:24 <theholyduck> Eddi|zuHause, you cant touch type?
22:01:34 <Eddi|zuHause> and i have no idea what a "model m" is
22:01:42 <theholyduck> Eddi|zuHause, old ibm keyboards
22:01:55 <theholyduck> back when keyboards was the only way of inputing information into a computer
22:02:02 <theholyduck> so they had to be made of quality materials
22:02:09 <theholyduck> with actual physical switches that dont wear out
22:02:38 <theholyduck> since the outbreak of mouses, high quality keyboards has died out
22:02:59 <Eddi|zuHause> i can type "blind", most of the time... but not by "feeling" the knobs on the keys
22:03:49 <Eddi|zuHause> mostly by relative positions, after i hit one key correctly
22:04:01 <Eddi|zuHause> this suffers from offset-keyboard-syndrome though
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22:14:42 <[wito]> like when you are one key too far to the right?
22:14:49 <[wito]> That always leads to funny sentences
22:15:14 <[wito]> I have a Das Keyboard III; pretty sturdy piece of work it is too
22:15:25 <[wito]> clicks like a motherlover, tho'
22:16:14 <Nite_Owl> I like a keyboard that clicks loudly
22:16:57 <[wito]> but not when I'm brooding and typing at the same time
22:17:08 <SmatZ> I was thinking about turning my keyboard into "Das Keyboard" ... by scrating all the labels :-p
22:20:12 <Nite_Owl> that will kill it for me as I mostly hunt and peck
22:20:28 <Eddi|zuHause> that's probably a fun thing to do, but i occasionally need to look at the less commonly used keys (e.g. stuff on shift+number)
22:20:50 <Eddi|zuHause> and hitting the right number is also a problem, if you don't want to count
22:21:35 <Nite_Owl> granted it is a faster than normal hunt and peck but I still need to look at the keyboard
22:21:47 <Eddi|zuHause> and the relative position thing also only works when typing text. it does not work, when i want to press a singular hotkey somewhere
22:24:43 <Nite_Owl> so - keyboard in front & mouse to the side or mouse in front and keyboard to the side
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22:40:06 <Eddi|zuHause> in which timezone?
22:40:36 <Eddi|zuHause> over here, it's after midnight
22:40:56 <SmatZ> [00:40:31] [CTCP] Sending CTCP-HACKALITTLEBIT request to TIME.
22:41:05 <SmatZ> I just hate it when I swap the parameters :-
22:41:43 <Eddi|zuHause> a context menu entry helps there ;)
22:43:03 <SmatZ> maybe it's the "+" in your Konversation version, Eddi|zuHause :) since I don't have such menu :-/
22:43:21 <SmatZ> Whois, Version, Ping... but not Time
22:43:42 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't have it either, but i think mirc had one
22:44:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i have not seen a way to edit the context menu, sadly
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22:45:54 <Xaroth> -00:45:49- (Eddi|zuHause) (time)
22:45:54 <Xaroth> -00:45:49- (Eddi|zuHause) (TIME) Reply Mo Mai 18 00:46:04 2009
22:46:04 <Eddi|zuHause> your clock is wrong
22:46:13 <Xaroth> actually, that's your clock :P
22:46:28 <Eddi|zuHause> once upon a time i set up ntp
22:47:51 <HackaLittleBit> edit: 11.47 summertime
22:50:28 <HackaLittleBit> eddi, you remember I had some problems with compiling
22:51:21 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't remember anything these days...
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22:53:57 <Eddi|zuHause> something's wrong here...
22:53:59 <Eddi|zuHause> # /etc/init.d/ntp status
22:54:01 <Eddi|zuHause> Checking for network time protocol daemon (NTPD): dead
22:54:21 <HackaLittleBit> you said "and i also think the trouble is strings.h, not the .lng files"
22:54:33 <Eddi|zuHause> now i remember ;)
22:54:43 <Xaroth> Eddi|zuHause: ntpdate pool.ntp.org
22:54:46 <HackaLittleBit> now help me pls
22:54:51 <Xaroth> how much sec are you off :P
22:55:40 <Xaroth> i trust ntp.org more :P
22:55:51 <HackaLittleBit> when I change a header file, and i compile the make does not recognise that the file is changed
22:56:07 <Eddi|zuHause> ptb is the institute that operates the radio clock senders
22:56:20 <Eddi|zuHause> it is basically THE authority concerning time in germany
22:57:16 <Eddi|zuHause> Information for package ntp:
22:57:17 <Eddi|zuHause> Status: not installed
22:57:36 <Xaroth> no wonder it's dead :P
22:57:37 <HackaLittleBit> only when I do mrproper, ./configure, make things are ok
22:58:24 <Eddi|zuHause> i assume it's a dependency issue, but it's difficult to debug such stuff without access ;)
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22:59:04 <Eddi|zuHause> might be an odd combination of timezones and the svn setting to use commit time as timestamps?
22:59:22 <HackaLittleBit> I don't have experience with unix
23:00:26 <Eddi|zuHause> what does "cat ~/.subversion/config | grep time" say?
23:01:08 <Eddi|zuHause> and did you try the ./configure options about using different dependency methods?
23:01:44 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, now it gets even more weird...
23:01:54 <Eddi|zuHause> # zypper install ntp
23:01:55 <Eddi|zuHause> Reading installed packages...
23:03:17 <Eddi|zuHause> what's the magic rpm invocation to read all packages that it thinks are installed?
23:06:25 <z-MaTRiX> i'm sure oil refinery would more like to get some transported oil from elsewhere ;>
23:07:58 <Eddi|zuHause> "no loading" option is your friend
23:08:13 <z-MaTRiX> i likeit this way :)
23:08:28 <Nite_Owl> not a good idea to have a primary and secondary industry of the same cargo type combined in one station
23:08:30 <Eddi|zuHause> it's obviously not working...
23:08:42 <z-MaTRiX> got it full load, also it does unload too
23:09:00 <HackaLittleBit> Eddi: thanks eddi, going to experiment some more with the dependency options
23:10:30 <z-MaTRiX> Nite_Owl, its lol but it pays ;>
23:11:02 <Nite_Owl> given how close the refinery and the platform are you do not need trains at the platform. Haul its oil with trucks.
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23:11:41 <z-MaTRiX> but i also have an oil refinery at the other edge of the map
23:11:54 <Eddi|zuHause> z-MaTRiX: obviously the refinery does not get any oil, else it would produce goods.
23:12:19 <z-MaTRiX> well it only produces when train arrives
23:13:02 <Nite_Owl> and the oil from the nearby platform goes to your other refinery?
23:14:41 <z-MaTRiX> so as a side-effect trains won't go empty back
23:16:11 <Nite_Owl> that could work if once the trains dump at the other refinery they then head off to other platforms
23:19:53 <Nite_Owl> need to feed - later all
23:23:35 <Eddi|zuHause> z-MaTRiX: problem with your setup, if you have both sides on full load, the source with the higher output will not be served properly
23:24:33 <Eddi|zuHause> because trains will pile up at the station with lower output, and the station with higher output will not get serviced while the trains wait at the other end
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23:26:38 <Eddi|zuHause> oversized station?
23:26:57 <z-MaTRiX> look at the spread <;
23:26:58 <Eddi|zuHause> a one-track entry should not need more than 6 platforms
23:27:31 <z-MaTRiX> it serves 4 oil platforms
23:29:06 <Eddi|zuHause> you should try the ctrl key when extending your catchment area
23:29:13 <fjb> The workers of the fourth oil rig refuse to work because they are bored by the layout.
23:29:17 <Eddi|zuHause> could save you a few millions of terraforming water
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23:33:26 <KingJ> Those curves can't be good for speed
23:34:59 <Eddi|zuHause2> there are some really obvious improvements...
23:35:28 <z-MaTRiX> started with bridges
23:35:32 <KingJ> My problem is that I often run out of space when I get multiple lines going through the same station
23:36:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> like i said, you don't need even half the amount of platforms
23:36:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> and why is this a server, anyway?
23:36:44 <z-MaTRiX> but its good to see trains can park
23:36:50 <z-MaTRiX> well its multiplayer
23:36:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> that just means it's calculating everythin twice
23:37:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> i have never seen you post a picture with actual "multiple players"
23:40:33 <KingJ> There are also ~15,000 waiting passengers, which dosen't help much
23:41:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm, apparently i have a package called "xntp" installed, which is not in any of my repositories, and conflicts with "ntp"
23:50:56 <z-MaTRiX> yey 41 million euros /year
23:51:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> that's a non-value.
23:51:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> because it depends heavily on inflation and stuff, so it is not comparable between games
23:52:38 <z-MaTRiX> isnt that the same in 2013 lets say?
23:52:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> no, inflation also depends on difficulty settings and starting year
23:56:59 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause2: xntp is a ntp implementation.
23:57:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> fjb: well, apparently it didn't work.
23:57:34 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
23:58:02 <PeterT> how do you load a scenario in multiplayer with rcon?
23:59:28 <Eddi|zuHause> last time there was some magic about filenames needed. probably the easiest if you rename it to .sav
continue to next day ⏵
