IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-05-16
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00:16:55 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: yexo * r16316 /trunk/ (bin/ai/regression/regression.txt src/company_cmd.cpp): -Fix (r16287,before): Set the autorenew settings for new AI companies to the default values, not to 0 or the local settings
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10:12:53 <DorpsGek> petern: celestar was last seen in #openttd 3 weeks, 3 days, 2 hours, 14 minutes, and 17 seconds ago: <Celestar> morning
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10:31:18 <ccfreak2k> Would it make economic sense to have to buy cargo from primary/intermediate industries as opposed to them just giving it away?
10:31:39 <planetmaker> you're a transport company. Not a dealer
10:32:03 <planetmaker> you're paid for transportation, not for selling goods
10:44:25 <petern> planetmaker, wait, didn't you know you were selling people?
10:45:35 <planetmaker> I knew I did something wrong.
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11:02:35 <Alberth> now I understand why I get the money after the journey instead of before.
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11:21:31 <ccfreak2k> Since I moved grain/livestock to factories and then the resulting goods to cities, I thought I was selling hamburgers.
11:21:42 <ccfreak2k> I never knew the livestock was HUMAN livestock.
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11:25:32 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: alberth * r16317 /trunk/src/ (window.cpp window_gui.h): -Codechange: Generalized finding a widget by type.
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11:37:11 <planetmaker> ccfreak2k: so the postal company of yours buys your letters and then sells them to people?
11:38:26 <ccfreak2k> I'm pretty sure our postal system isn't privatized.
11:39:14 <petern> so DHL buys your parcel and sells it on?
11:39:39 <Alberth> only to the right person :p
11:40:17 <ccfreak2k> Hmm, no, I don't think they would.
11:40:53 <SpComb> in TTD, they'll apparently just give them to an arbitrary person, based on the destination of the first vehicle that they'll fit on
11:41:11 <SpComb> must simplify their processes quite a bit
11:41:39 <ccfreak2k> Yeah, the citizens don't seem to care whose letter they get.
11:41:57 <ccfreak2k> The passengers don't care about their destination either I think.
11:42:18 <DorpsGek> petern: celestar was last seen in #openttd 3 weeks, 3 days, 3 hours, 43 minutes, and 42 seconds ago: <Celestar> morning
11:42:27 <De_Ghosty> [07:21:09] <ccfreak2k> Since I moved grain/livestock to factories and then the resulting goods to cities, I thought I was selling hamburgers.
11:42:27 <De_Ghosty> [07:21:20] <ccfreak2k> I never knew the livestock was HUMAN livestock.
11:42:34 <petern> aww, 40 minutes and 39 seconds too late :s
11:43:23 <SpComb> you can try again in just under three months
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11:44:13 <Alberth> slightly more than a week is also possible
11:44:15 <ccfreak2k> Pending your resubmission of your Application to Comment on a Humorous Statement.
11:45:26 <ccfreak2k> Ah, the letter carrying is more akin to COD I think.
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12:24:58 <Guest2468> is it possible in openttd to let a station "forget" her freigth-types?
12:25:05 <Guest2468> Like resetstation in ttdpatch?
12:25:50 <Alberth> there is a patch floating around, but it is not in the game
12:26:03 <Guest2468> so i have to rebuild the station? :( ?
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12:33:28 <george__> what code is OTT ritan in?
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12:36:45 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16318 /trunk/ (9 files in 3 dirs):
12:36:45 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Change: use !! instead of @@ in src/*.in too.
12:36:45 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Change: use @ instead of ~ in configure/Makefiles so Debian's build system(s) can also build RC binaries.
12:40:41 <ccfreak2k> I think C++ technically.
12:43:55 <Xaroth> ccfreak2k: he left already :P
12:44:25 <ccfreak2k> He probably wanted to write a 1337 p4tch.
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17:23:46 <Eddi|zuHause> <ccfreak2k> Would it make economic sense to have to buy cargo from primary/intermediate industries as opposed to them just giving it away? <- each time i read that idea, i come to the conclusion that it's a horrible concept
17:24:28 <glx> why buy when you are supposed to only transport stuff ?
17:24:45 <Eddi|zuHause> this is a transport game. the focus should be logistics, not trade
17:25:19 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't care for who pays for what
17:25:56 <Eddi|zuHause> i get a package A, and have to get told to bring it to B.
17:26:13 <Eddi|zuHause> that's all that the game should be about
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17:28:08 <z-MaTRiX> just gave a computer a hot shower, am į cool?
17:29:08 <Xaroth> glx: testing from autottd, connection gets made, request gets sent out, but no data returned
17:30:11 <glx> Xaroth: works for me after many retrys
17:31:07 <Xaroth> probably got firewalled after testing autottd a few times :/
17:32:27 <glx> but the server seems to be slow (I try to get some content but download doesn't start
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17:36:12 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: translators * r16319 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files):
17:36:12 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-05-16 17:35:44
17:36:12 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: arabic_egypt - 1 fixed by khaloofah (1)
17:36:12 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: english_US - 24 fixed by WhiteRabbit (24)
17:36:12 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: esperanto - 6 fixed by maristo (6)
17:36:13 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: german - 1 changed by planetmaker (1)
17:36:13 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: welsh - 9 fixed by welshdragon (9)
17:36:35 <Sacro> that's not a real language
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18:28:46 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r16320 /trunk/src/saveload/order_sl.cpp: -Fix (r11939): loading of savegames created in revision between 0.3.5 and 0.3.6 caused crash
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18:40:38 <Eddi|zuHause> seriously, how do you find testcases for this stuff?
18:41:22 <SmatZ> reading the code again and again :)
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18:56:47 <Sacro> are you stuck in an outgoing mail server?
18:58:28 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16321 /trunk/src/toolbar_gui.cpp: -Fix (r5946): in the scenario editor change the (starting) game year of the scenario, not the (starting) game year for new games/scenarios.
19:38:28 <insulfrog> what's on your mind?
19:38:45 <petern> what causes (secondary) newgrf industries to have massive output when nothing is beings supplied
19:39:33 <insulfrog> not sure, ask the person/people who made the GRF
19:39:38 <petern> eh, maybe a bug in the grf, indeed
19:40:30 <frosch123> did it show the "buggy newgrf caused infinite loop in production callback"-message ?
19:41:30 <petern> don't remember seeing it
19:41:46 <petern> it is 'experts servers - industries (v0.4)' however
19:41:51 <petern> so i don't expect quality ;)
19:42:07 <frosch123> yup, that grf is the cause for adding that message :)
19:43:02 <frosch123> while (<uninitialised storage> == 0) { produce some cargo }
19:45:29 <petern> Waiting: 33,000 crates of goods
19:46:09 <frosch123> how hard is it for experts to transport them away?
19:47:54 <petern> so fairly low capacity
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19:59:18 <Caracal> hey guys, i have a very quick question - does openTTD have a 'classic mode' - where it's as close to the original as possible?
20:00:42 <frosch123> if you really want that, take a look at ttdpatch
20:01:05 <Xaroth> he came he asked and he fucked off agian?
20:05:36 <glx> quick question, quick answer :)
20:09:01 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16322 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#2873]: trains could get stuck in a depot when they wanted to go to the same depot again.
20:09:03 <frosch123> including "thanks" :)
20:11:10 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16323 /trunk/src/yapf/ (yapf_costrail.hpp yapf_rail.cpp): -Fix [FS#2900]: desyncs due to the fact that depot searching with a maximum search depth simply does not work with YAPF's caches.
20:30:05 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16324 /branches/0.7/ (23 files in 7 dirs): (log message trimmed)
20:30:05 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: [0.7] -Backport from trunk:
20:30:05 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: - Fix: Desyncs due to the fact that depot searching with a maximum search depth simply does not work with YAPF's caches [FS#2900] (r16323)
20:30:05 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: - Fix: Trains could get stuck in a depot when they wanted to go to the same depot again [FS#2873] (r16322)
20:30:07 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: - Fix: In the scenario editor change the (starting) game year of the scenario, not the (starting) game year for new games/scenarios (r16321)
20:30:07 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: - Fix: Loading of savegames created in revision between 0.3.5 and 0.3.6 caused crash (r16320)
20:30:09 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NoAI] Set the autorenew settings for new AI companies to the default values, not to 0 or the local settings (r16316)
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20:55:17 <petern> aircraft windows are messed up, unless it's av8 doing that
21:33:22 <Spiffy> anybody using KGAT patch pack?
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21:34:37 <Spiffy> i am getting lot of crashes with CarstsWorldScenario
21:34:49 <Spiffy> the game crashes after like 15 min of gameplay
21:35:04 <luckz> do you mean with that scenario only or did you only try that one?
21:35:13 <Spiffy> Reason: Assertion failed at c:\documents and settings\mihai\desktop\new folder\src\tile_map.h:71: tile < MapSize()
21:35:28 <Spiffy> I tried 2-3 other scenarios including a custom one
21:43:49 <SmatZ> don't use modified OTTD builds
21:47:02 <Spiffy> that pack had good patches :)
21:49:24 <Spiffy> would just love to play with cargodist and extralarge patch
21:49:34 <Spiffy> just patched extra large now tryign to patch cargodist in it
22:35:23 <KingJ> I'm still playing with that old cargodest binary on the OTTD site, I tried cargodist and it just crashed on me. Cargodest has been solid as a rock, but I do miss some of the 0.7 features
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23:22:02 * theholyduck felt like joining the openttd channel, and then i have to setup to join a completely diffrent network ;(
23:23:11 <SmatZ> what network were you trying?
23:23:32 <theholyduck> its the obvious choice for any NORMAL open source project or related
23:25:02 <theholyduck> actually i considered joining because my kid nephew wanted to play locomotion with me, and i became so utterly in despair at my inability to do anything with its tiny amount of signals
23:25:13 <theholyduck> and that made me think of openttd
23:25:15 <Sacro> we left freenode because of the 'tard that ran it
23:25:20 <TinoDidriksen> Freenode's channel policies are a bit...biased.
23:25:49 <theholyduck> TinoDidriksen, i run a bunch of very offtopic channels on freenode, and they can be dickheads
23:26:00 <z-MaTRiX> theholyduck, whatisyourquestionthen?
23:26:04 <theholyduck> z-MaTRiX, none :P
23:26:31 <theholyduck> i'm just in it for the, its 0126 in the morning, and the rest of the country is out getting drunk and partying loudly
23:26:51 <theholyduck> night between 16th and 17th of may in norway is the official party night
23:26:55 <TinoDidriksen> Ah, Norway...17th of May preparations.
23:27:06 <z-MaTRiX> didnt know its parrty day
23:27:18 <TinoDidriksen> It's their national day.
23:27:19 <theholyduck> z-MaTRiX, well pretty much anyone over the age of 14 goes out to get drunk
23:27:43 <theholyduck> then we celebrate our consitutional day by walking around hung over
23:27:47 <theholyduck> and shouting propaganda
23:27:59 <theholyduck> i'm one of the few people who dont,
23:28:30 <theholyduck> i dont feel like doing much
23:28:54 <theholyduck> i MIGHT add another computer to my synergy setup
23:29:03 <theholyduck> 3 computers and 4 monitors just isnt enough
23:29:55 <theholyduck> i COULD, but i dont like my own playing style anymore :P
23:30:08 <theholyduck> i build gigant rail networks, then spend half eternity trying to optimize them
23:30:13 <luckz> KingJ: when did you try cargodist?
23:30:21 <theholyduck> then suddenly realizing its the next day
23:31:19 <KingJ> luckz: Recently, someone posted a win binary in the thread
23:31:37 <luckz> KingJ: there are very regular win32 binaries in all sorts of threads, so.
23:31:39 <theholyduck> z-MaTRiX, my most recent masterpiece was basicly 6 lines merging in the same general area, with a station in the middle
23:31:46 <theholyduck> z-MaTRiX, with no pattern or design at all
23:31:57 <luckz> I'm just saying that some form of crashing I personally had a lot was apparently fixed recently. as in in the last.. two or three days I guess?
23:31:58 <theholyduck> discordian messes <3
23:32:53 <z-MaTRiX> ever tried running trains with 40 cars?
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23:34:29 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r16325 /trunk/src/ (116 files in 8 dirs): -Codechange: replace GetPoolItem(index) by PoolItem::Get(index)
23:34:44 <theholyduck> z-MaTRiX, i prefer more sane sizes, just loads of them
23:34:58 <theholyduck> z-MaTRiX, actually i was trying to make some modification to that designless mess of a junction
23:35:11 <theholyduck> and i litterally spent an hour just fixing the damage i created
23:36:00 <z-MaTRiX> i like making roundlines with way junctions
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23:36:37 <z-MaTRiX> simple and effective
23:37:41 <theholyduck> meh, simple and effective is booring
23:37:58 <theholyduck> much more fun if you have to spend ages studying something to figure out what it does and how to make it better
23:38:42 <luckz> z-MaTRiX: like with 40 cars powered by quite a lot of engines or just a single engine hopelessly trying to move those wagons?
23:39:47 <z-MaTRiX> iremember į was using 5 lev-4 engines
23:40:00 <theholyduck> hmm, im not sure how i feel about passenger and cargo destinations :P
23:40:07 <theholyduck> though then again, i've never tried playing with it on
23:40:39 <z-MaTRiX> 1million tonns of oil is heavy up the hill ;>
23:41:04 <theholyduck> z-MaTRiX, wouldnt realistic accelration help that?
23:41:16 <theholyduck> a million tonns of oil would have alot of inertia
23:41:20 <luckz> I think passengers and cargo destinations are a really great concept, however they need to be done like in simutrans
23:41:38 <luckz> as in: passengers are only generated when the destination they want is connected
23:41:50 <theholyduck> luckz, well yeah :P
23:42:10 <Chruker> If you build it, they will come
23:42:10 <luckz> that's also the only good thing about simutrans pretty much. that and some related algorithms.
23:42:13 <theholyduck> we dont want people showing up in german demaning to take a train to canada
23:42:49 <z-MaTRiX> passengers just want them to be taken anywhere
23:42:55 <luckz> theholyduck: no, it's not about that. it's "only generate these 10 people if station B is connected", not "generate these 10 people wanting to go to A if B is not connected"
23:43:02 <Chruker> Some kind of indicator or where people would want to go would be nice, so that you could go about building it
23:43:02 <z-MaTRiX> willing to pay any fair
23:43:09 <z-MaTRiX> so better take em to mars
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23:44:49 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r16326 /trunk/src/ (26 files in 5 dirs): -Codechange: replace GetPoolItemPoolSize() by PoolItem::GetPoolSize()
23:45:00 <Nite_Owl> Hello z-MaTRiX & luckz
23:45:09 <theholyduck> actually, openttd could use some "singleplayer missionishy" thingies :P
23:45:19 <theholyduck> to give you a target when you're boored
23:45:35 <Nite_Owl> it would then be RRT
23:45:52 <luckz> you'd have to apply a lot of restrictions for that though. to control the difficulty.
23:46:20 <theholyduck> luckz, well i ment like a actual singleplayer objective based gamemode, like in locomotion, etc,etc
23:46:32 <theholyduck> just design some maps and challenges of diffrent difficulties
23:46:45 <theholyduck> maybe even a tutorial level :O
23:47:19 <Nite_Owl> Railroad Tycoon plays that way - OpenTTD is much more open ended
23:49:00 <theholyduck> Nite_Owl, hmm, that doesnt mean you couldnt add some additional missions or whatever for beginners and bored people
23:49:19 <luckz> theholyduck: I know what you meant. I said that it requires massive restrictions on what you let the player do to have a somewhat controllable difficulty - as Nite_Owl said current openttd is anything but "transport 500 units of lumber and make 20000 dollars within three months; don't get the town of Lardass to hate you"
23:49:45 <Nite_Owl> but you would loose the intent of the game imho
23:49:59 <theholyduck> Nite_Owl, i always felt it was more of a multiplayer game
23:50:04 <luckz> and a game like RRT or Industry Giant is all about that kind of gameplay already
23:50:06 <theholyduck> seeing as the ai was always so pathetic
23:50:39 <Nite_Owl> the AI is now very good
23:51:15 <theholyduck> well i did say WAS
23:51:48 <luckz> and it's not like such games weren't fun, so making TTD into something that other games already do fine isn't an utterly useful way to spend a developer's time
23:52:12 <luckz> ..that now reminded me to resume playing Tropico some day.
23:53:02 <z-MaTRiX> btw its a joke an aeroplane flies several days to its destination
23:53:35 <theholyduck> z-MaTRiX, well airplanes are allready pretty unbalanced
23:53:40 <theholyduck> making them even faster isnt going to help
23:54:09 <theholyduck> a monkey playing connect the dots with airplanes can make more cash than most people building rail networks
23:54:18 <z-MaTRiX> tried setting speed multiplier to 1
23:54:31 <Nite_Owl> it is not a joke, it is an extrapolation for the sake of gameplay
23:55:17 <luckz> I think z-MaTRiX wants a patch that makes an ingame year take a real year.
23:55:17 <z-MaTRiX> was thinking about who will travel via train for a month
23:55:36 <theholyduck> z-MaTRiX, meh, realism, schmealism
23:57:11 <Nite_Owl> where for art thou Belugas
23:58:57 * theholyduck puts on some patriotic music
continue to next day ⏵