IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-05-11
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00:00:19 <Eddi|zuHause> well for me that was more like 15 years ago :p
00:00:44 * Chruker goes crazy trying to figure out these damn slopes
00:01:14 <Yexo> what is your current problem?
00:01:43 <Eddi|zuHause> i remember my first program was an address book in DBase
00:01:58 <Yexo> PeterT: it's fine, but don't expect a reply to everything
00:02:21 <Chruker> I'm just trying to make some function which checks the tiles around a reactangle and then returns which hights that should be valid to terraform to
00:02:39 <Eddi|zuHause> where i took an example program from the book, and modified it a little
00:02:58 <Yexo> Chruker: that's indeed very hard
00:03:11 <Yexo> I'm working on a patch that should make that a little easier, but that one is far from ready
00:03:20 <Eddi|zuHause> and i made it print "Loading ..." and wait 3 seconds to pretend it actually doing something in that time :p
00:04:38 <Eddi|zuHause> then i played around with QBasic
00:05:00 <Eddi|zuHause> and in 6th grade we had a programming course that teached pascal
00:06:08 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, dos. it could make graphics applications in 320x200 with 256 colours
00:06:40 <Eddi|zuHause> who remembers the gorilla game? :p
00:06:56 <PeterT> how do i make something that i typed into a bulleted list (editing OTTD wiki)?
00:07:52 <Chruker> try starting the lines with *
00:14:41 <Eddi|zuHause> the game called "gorilla" which came as an example program with qbasic
00:15:19 <Eddi|zuHause> two gorillas standing on highrises, and throwing exploding bananas at each other
00:20:34 <Eddi|zuHause> well, that was at a time where microsoft actually was any good
00:20:52 <Eddi|zuHause> the most sophisticated operating system they ever produced
00:20:55 <Sacro> Apple and Amiga where loads better
00:21:04 <Sacro> both had multi tasking GUIs
00:21:26 <Eddi|zuHause> nobody runs ubuntu
00:23:48 <PeterT> im currently playing on a map thats 8190x4094
00:29:12 <Eddi|zuHause> but he is not that wrong, because there are two rows of void tiles
00:29:15 <Sacro> that's slightly rounder
00:30:45 <Eddi|zuHause> so (8190,4094) is the highest query-able tile
00:31:09 <Eddi|zuHause> and (1,1) the lowest
00:31:18 <Eddi|zuHause> so that's the number of usable tiles
00:31:57 <PeterT> i am using extra large maps patch by bilbo
00:41:08 <Eddi|zuHause> no, we actually thought that you wrote that by yourself in the last hour since you started learning to code
00:53:41 <Eddi|zuHause> #define idiot Sacro
00:54:53 <Eddi|zuHause> #define sleep me->bed()
00:56:30 <PeterT> am i supposed to under stand this? :)
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01:46:25 <PeterT> jesus, how does this work
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09:14:54 <petern> well, there, railtypes synced & compiled
09:15:13 <TrueBrain> so when will it be merged? :p
09:19:28 <TrueBrain> oh no, petern went evil?
09:25:55 <Xaroth> TrueBrain: cheers again, <3 it
09:27:05 <Xaroth> boss gave me the creds for getting into evo as well, so now i can go whenever i please
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09:33:36 <TrueBrain> a DC here in Haarlem
09:33:41 <TrueBrain> (next to Amsterdam)
09:34:57 <TrueBrain> DataCenter ... you should know thatone ;)
09:35:18 <petern> never abbreviated data centre :p
09:35:28 <petern> and i spell centre correctly
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09:36:44 <petern> also some abbreviations need context
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11:14:00 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16276 /trunk/src/economy_type.h: -Fix: huh, old AI? What is that? What about all the time I thought there was no AI?
11:14:39 <SpComb> it was lurking... waiting... waiting for it's time to come
11:14:57 <SpComb> one day the lingering remenants of the old OpenTTD AI will rise up and take control
11:20:54 <planetmaker> he... good one :)
11:21:25 <Noldo> rubidium is squashing it like a bug!
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11:39:31 <Ammler> I am still waiting for new AI, behaving like the original AI. :-)
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11:40:08 <SmatZ> noais will never be allowed to cheat
11:40:09 <[wito]> What does fund local road reconstruction and fund new buildings do?
11:40:30 <SmatZ> funds local road reconstruction ot funds new building
11:40:31 <[wito]> (except for the former causing traffic holdups, of course)
11:40:49 <Ammler> it was so nice to watch the ai, terraforming everything trying there and there and finally gave up.
11:41:27 <SmatZ> [wito]: road reconstruction can remove some pieces of road (theoretically, depends on settings)
11:43:17 <Ammler> doesn't it also change the ownership?
11:44:10 <[wito]> well, local road reconstruction is no great mystery (tho' I think it does cause the city to claim ownership of player-built roads)
11:44:25 <[wito]> but fund new buildings, OTOH; what does that do?
11:44:29 <[wito]> Force some town growth?
11:44:36 <petern> that funds new buildings
11:45:21 <Ammler> [wito]: you use that to growth a town to accept goods, i.e.
11:45:56 <Ammler> no idea about raiting influence.
11:45:58 <[wito]> or more usefully, coax an artic/desert town into grow to a stage where it can accept food? :P
11:47:50 <Ammler> to update a git clone, I just need to run "git pull"?
11:48:16 <Ammler> github.com seems down.
11:55:53 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r16277 /trunk/src/ (town.h town_cmd.cpp town_type.h): -Codechange: enumerize values and remove unneeded values used for testing town rating
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12:00:48 <glx> Ammler: git pull, then git update
12:01:20 <glx> IIRC there's also git fetch (which does pull and update)
12:01:34 <Ammler> well, my issue is that github.com seems not available for git
12:02:36 <Ammler> there is no up for git
12:03:34 <dihedral> get yourself a git book online
12:03:54 <dihedral> or join something like
12:04:37 <SmatZ> Ammler: I am using "git pull && git checkout origin/master" ... but that can be very wrong :)
12:10:15 * frosch123 ponders starting a game with the stocks setting
12:55:58 <frosch123> exactly, that is most difficult part of it
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13:57:54 <planetmaker> SmatZ, did you make the game more difficult or where do I not understand your latest commit?
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14:54:41 <[wito]> Is switching town ownership wrt. roads and houses something easily doable in code?
14:56:47 <planetmaker> hm... no-one owns a town.
15:01:18 <planetmaker> [wito], then I guess the answer depends upon how you want the gui / the selection process. That'd eat most of the work time, I guess
15:02:02 <planetmaker> at EU parliaments elections :)
15:02:32 <[wito]> planetmaker: I'm not asking what eats time; I'm asking if there's a simple way of doing it?
15:04:47 <[wito]> is the owning town/player set on a tile/building/road as a field in a structure, or are there all kinds of convoluted shit going ont?
15:05:38 <planetmaker> it's part of the map array
15:06:31 <planetmaker> so... in principle read the proper bits and set them differently
15:07:38 <[wito]> exploring the area around a tile is fairly straightforward, yeah?
15:07:53 <planetmaker> define "exploring" ;)
15:07:56 <[wito]> (e.g. figuring out wether there is a town within X tiles)
15:08:05 <planetmaker> but there's circular_tile_search or something
15:08:14 <planetmaker> or find_closest_town
15:08:37 <planetmaker> no guarantee for the proper function names, though
15:08:47 <[wito]> I'm sure I can find them
15:08:59 <[wito]> how about aligning to the city grid (for 2x2 and 3x3 city layouts?
15:09:15 <planetmaker> that's already possible afaik
15:09:23 <[wito]> )((see if you can guess what I'm wanting to do. ;)))
15:13:51 <Belugas> create a domino board ingame around towns?
15:16:26 <Belugas> ho no.. i know... you're going to BUY the towns!
15:20:39 <[wito]> being able to buy towns outright would certainly be less of a hassle than having to keep renewing exclusive transport rights...
15:22:02 <[wito]> what about creating a new town without ASKING for a town name, just giving one?
15:22:53 <[wito]> I'm sorry for asking so many questions all up in here; but you most certainly have a better command of the code than I do
15:22:57 <Belugas> and what about checking if that town name does not already exists?
15:23:09 <[wito]> Probably a good idea, yes
15:23:16 <Belugas> and what is wrong with the town funding patch?
15:23:26 <petern> towns are not... owned
15:23:28 <Belugas> apart the fact that alain updates it... of course...
15:23:34 <petern> therefore house 'owner' is not stored
15:23:55 <petern> if you wanted a town to be owned, you'd store an owner in the town struct, off-map.
15:24:05 <[wito]> petern: you misunderstand me
15:24:24 <[wito]> I'm not talking about player ownage; I'm thinking of local authority juridstiction
15:24:29 <petern> i was reading top->down
15:24:38 <petern> houses store the town id
15:24:50 <Belugas> usuallt, it's left to right...
15:25:37 <Belugas> "This is MY house you destroyed" - "Nah it's mine, i bought it"!!
15:25:42 <[wito]> Actually, it seems as if multiple towns with the same name can coexist
15:26:18 <petern> what does name have to do with anything?
15:26:36 <[wito]> <Belugas> and what about checking if that town name does not already exists?
15:27:25 <petern> so the real jist is you want to fund towns in game?
15:27:34 <rellig> is there a way to enable never_expire_vehicles on a running network game?
15:28:04 <[wito]> I want to build a town budding/suburbanization patch
15:28:11 <Belugas> [11:28] <[wito]> Actually, it seems as if multiple towns with the same name can coexist <-- "Seems"
15:28:42 <[wito]> Belugas: tested it on a running game by renaming a town to the name of another
15:28:48 <[wito]> no immediate ill effects
15:28:52 <SmatZ> rellig: not possible in multiplayer
15:28:54 <petern> you want suburbs to become towns in their own right?
15:28:56 <Belugas> rellig, i guess the console can do that, but don't quote me on it
15:29:08 <rellig> the console cant, unfortunatly
15:29:28 <petern> you have to stop the game, load it in single player, change the setting, reload the game on the server
15:29:29 <rellig> but it is possible if i restart the server and set it in the config?
15:29:39 <Belugas> [wito] : we all know how good tests are been done :)
15:29:46 <rellig> petern: thx, i will try
15:30:02 <[wito]> Belugas: are towns looked up by name anywhere?
15:30:08 <petern> [wito], you realise that, in real life (whoops, i'm going to die) it happens the other way around?
15:31:09 <Belugas> [wito]: not looked up at, no, not as far as i remember
15:31:15 <petern> what's the problem with choosing a name?
15:31:18 <Belugas> but that does not mean it shall work
15:31:33 <[wito]> But I'd guess that places like the New York boroughs have local-authority-like juridstiction
15:31:38 <petern> a bigger problem is surely finding where it should happen...
15:31:59 <[wito]> (player-initiated-action)
15:32:21 <petern> that's not a transport company related task...
15:33:31 * petern imagines Arriva deciding Oxford is too big, and splitting off its surburbs into separate authorities
15:34:34 <[wito]> So what you are saying is that (big) transport companies never influence local politics?
15:35:04 <Belugas> at least, they do not create town split up...
15:35:10 <petern> they're more interested in things like subsidies
15:35:30 <Belugas> they may try to change zoning for their own good
15:35:53 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16278 /branches/0.7/ (49 files in 5 dirs):
15:35:53 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: [0.7] -Backport from trunk:
15:35:53 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: - Fix: The language is called Slovak, not Slovakish (r16090)
15:37:29 <Belugas> but that is pretty much the same as bribing
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15:40:03 <SmatZ> I got >30% for 4 parties...
15:40:31 <SmatZ> but still 35% isn't what I would call "sufficient match"
15:40:59 * Belugas prefers lighter than matches
15:40:59 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, well. An indication maybe :)
15:46:02 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16279 /tags/0.7.1-RC1/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Release: 0.7.1-RC1
15:47:55 <fjb> I would prefer a patch where big towns would incorporate neighbouring small towns.
15:51:06 <Belugas> i had such an idea one day: when two towns are so entwined there are no differences between them, call up for fusion
15:51:06 <Belugas> just that it's a hell of a big stuff to do for very little gain..
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15:58:23 <luckz> I have the data files in My Documents to not need a copy for every OpenTTD folder
15:58:39 <luckz> I'd love to do the same with content_download
15:58:54 <luckz> is this possible/going to be implemented any time soon?
16:00:26 <Belugas> personnaly, i do not know the answer to neither of your questions
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16:02:21 <luckz> also, are there any places where I might find grf combination suggestions?
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16:04:53 <fjb> Do not combine too many grfs at once.
16:05:44 <luckz> well, I want to play with dbsetxl
16:05:55 <luckz> I figured some road and train replacements might also be good.
16:06:04 <luckz> I wouldn't mind using/having trams.
16:06:12 <luckz> station graphics wouldn't hurt either
16:06:35 <luckz> I have the openttdcoop pack, so a good 60mb of GRF files
16:06:46 <luckz> I just have no idea which to use and in which order etc
16:06:56 <[wito]> I find that eGRVTS, New Ships (by MB) + ECSx, basic platforms and suburban stations goes well with everything
16:07:22 <Ammler> (as you don't need to use them)
16:07:28 <fjb> I would group it thematically. MBs stations with the dbset, canadian and us stations with nars, etc.
16:07:51 <luckz> egrvts and not grvts, yeah?
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16:10:16 <luckz> fjb: but if I get the ECSx for New Ships, I also need ECS, no?
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16:12:06 <luckz> would you mind explaining that to an idiot? and with suburban, you mean ae_subuw.GRF but not modernsuburbanw.GRF?
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16:13:32 <[wito]> ECSx for New Ships is actually not ECS support, it's newindustries support
16:14:13 <tux_mark_5> i've recently ran into a problem concerning "multiple newgrf engine sets"
16:14:41 <tux_mark_5> i've added like 4 grfs into a running game
16:14:55 <tux_mark_5> poked around for a while
16:14:57 <DaleStan> Adding newgrfs to a running game is not supported.
16:15:16 <[wito]> Newgrafs to a new game; hic svnt draconis
16:15:45 <DaleStan> That would be the meaning of the big red error box you presumably ignored.
16:15:51 <luckz> DaleStan: it is when there are no vehicles in the game, no?
16:15:56 <luckz> at least that's what my game claimed
16:16:02 <tux_mark_5> there are no vehicles
16:16:10 <tux_mark_5> and enabling that option works
16:16:18 <DaleStan> In that case, it depends on the content of the GRF.
16:16:20 <tux_mark_5> when I remove a grf
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16:16:36 <tux_mark_5> it results in duplicates of original train set
16:16:49 <tux_mark_5> if i had 4 grfs and then removed them all
16:16:58 <tux_mark_5> i would get 4 original sets
16:17:15 <tux_mark_5> resetengines doesn't help either
16:17:39 <tux_mark_5> i think that might be a bug
16:17:41 <planetmaker> don't remove newgrfs on running games :)
16:17:51 <planetmaker> any behaviour resulting from that is not supported.
16:18:03 <tux_mark_5> well, i don't need to remove them either
16:18:09 <tux_mark_5> but the problem is
16:18:18 <tux_mark_5> that pricing of original engines is weird
16:18:29 <planetmaker> ... you chose wrongly before you started. And tried to combine incompatible newgrfs
16:18:55 <tux_mark_5> is there any way to reset pricing?
16:19:07 <tux_mark_5> because I have infrastructure in place
16:19:15 <tux_mark_5> and I wouldn't like to lose it
16:19:50 <[wito]> tux_mark_5: I'm not to certain of this, but saving, quitting and loading MIGHT solve the problem
16:20:43 <[wito]> But as has been pointed out
16:20:56 <[wito]> once you start fiddling with the grfs in a running game, you're off the map
16:21:43 <tux_mark_5> well, I managed to remove duplicates
16:21:55 <tux_mark_5> by turning "multiple engines" option on and off
16:22:13 <tux_mark_5> but now livestock van costs like 36118 euros instead of 2000
16:22:41 <tux_mark_5> prices of other vans are insanely high too
16:23:04 <tux_mark_5> I could give you my save game, so you could check it out
16:23:08 <luckz> is there anything about the newGUI that is better than the original?
16:24:09 <TrueBrain> it has 'new' in its name!!
16:25:20 <luckz> is any OpenGFX stuff actually better?
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16:27:13 <Belugas> different. not better
16:27:22 <Belugas> and mostly, not completed
16:27:33 <[wito]> tux_mark_5: still; you're in undefined behaviour country
16:27:43 <luckz> Belugas: any you recommend using?
16:27:44 <tux_mark_5> can i reset it? xD
16:28:08 <Belugas> luckz, i'm not using many grfs, honestly. in fact, mostly, none
16:28:12 <luckz> the GUI itself I don't think I want to use, terrain I have no opinion on yet, fonts are not horrible I guess, dunno what eyecandy does
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16:31:26 <tux_mark_5> so, is there any way to restart the game while preserving infrastructure?
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16:44:43 <tux_mark_5> so, is there any way to do that?
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16:47:35 <glx> you can use the same seed
16:47:58 <glx> there's a command to get the seed (I can't remember it's name)
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16:49:41 <tux_mark_5> but I've layed tracks and everything
16:50:25 <tux_mark_5> i'll get it back xD
16:50:44 <tux_mark_5> worst case scenario: i'll hack around inside openttd source
16:53:17 <SmatZ> you can rename the game to .scn, load it in the scenario editor, and use the "Reset landscape" function
16:53:27 <SmatZ> but it's better to first remove all companies..
16:53:38 <SmatZ> that reminds me, something I wanted to "fix" long time ago :-x
16:54:53 <Belugas> you wanted to fix dinner?
16:55:00 <Ammler> Belugas: good idea :-)
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16:56:07 <planetmaker> nice :) Sounds good
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16:56:45 <Xaroth> TrueBrain: so i go to evo.. i drive out.. car trouble, GRRRR >:(
16:56:53 <Xaroth> spent 5 hours on something that shouldn't even take 2
16:58:11 <Xaroth> on a better note, got the company car until my car is fixed
17:08:41 <tux_mark_5> well, i managed to cut down the prices xD
17:08:51 <tux_mark_5> from 35000 to 9000 euros ;D
17:08:56 <tux_mark_5> for a standard car
17:09:13 <tux_mark_5> it appears that NARS 2.0 is responsible for such behavior
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17:31:12 <luckz> also isi t normal that cargodest crashes every two minutes?
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17:31:41 <insulfrog> I havn't tried it so I don't know
17:32:22 <insulfrog> does it bring up any error messages when the game crashes?
17:32:42 <Combuster> last time I tried (few months ago) it worked for three hours on end
17:32:58 <luckz> it seems to crash very often when you check up on passengers at some station
17:33:05 <luckz> (because the menu there shows where all passengers want to go)
17:33:18 <luckz> it crashes frequently when fiddling with basic vehicle orders
17:33:19 <[wito]> luckz: cargodest or cargodist?
17:33:38 <[wito]> what revision did you patch against?
17:34:06 <luckz> I downloaded builds from the forums.
17:34:11 <luckz> the last time I played, dunno, it didn't say.
17:34:47 <[wito]> I heard it's buggy sometimes
17:35:58 <luckz> true. the patcher said cargodest, but linked to cargodist.
17:37:17 <luckz> does cargodest only work with rather old builds or what?
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18:17:37 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r16280 /trunk/src/terraform_gui.cpp:
18:17:37 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Fix (r13731): crash after using the 'Reset landscape' function
18:17:37 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Fix: remove all waypoint signs and buoys after resetting landscape
18:37:37 <[wito]> SmatZ: shouldn't buyous be retained?
18:39:35 <SmatZ> you can't build them in SE
18:40:36 <[wito]> as they don't appear to be player owned, maybe you should be able to?
18:43:18 <luckz> just made it crash 7 times.
18:44:43 <petern> that's crazy spelling, especially as it's already on screen...
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18:46:44 <TrueBrain> who knows how to read CGA 0xb8000 memory? :)
18:47:27 <TrueBrain> as I fail to convert it to a 8bpp format :(
18:48:17 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r16281 /trunk/src/win32.cpp: -Fix: silence some of compile farm warnings for target win9x
18:48:23 <[com]buster> you want to get vga text or?
18:48:35 <TrueBrain> I have a CGA 4 colour output program
18:48:39 <TrueBrain> which written something to 0xb8000
18:48:53 <SmatZ> how many bits does it use? 2 per pixel?
18:48:56 <TrueBrain> I want to convert that to a SDL pixel buffer (so a lineair 8bpp)
18:49:04 <TrueBrain> 4 colours .. I can only guess 2 bits ;)
18:49:25 <SmatZ> it's possible it's coded in some really strange way ;)
18:49:27 <[com]buster> and interleaved :/
18:49:30 <tux_mark_5> you could write simple loop to do that
18:49:32 <TrueBrain> there is somthing with bitplanes, but I have a hard time finding any real data on it :(
18:49:38 <SmatZ> yeah, like interleaved :)
18:50:18 <[com]buster> I got a nice book on that (and more)
18:50:28 <TrueBrain> google is worthless for such queris
18:50:31 <TrueBrain> I wish I had books on it :)
18:50:46 <TrueBrain> [com]buster: you are sure it is arranged like that? No 0x2000 shift
18:51:16 <[wito]> petern: you'll have to exuse me, drunk I'm bit a
18:51:17 *** [com]buster is now known as Combuster
18:51:37 <tux_mark_5> does anyone know how grf conflicts "work" in openttd?
18:51:54 <Combuster> I messed up planar and single shift mode :(
18:52:12 <[wito]> tux_mark_5: last I checked, a conflict meant that behaviour when using both was ill defined
18:52:14 <Combuster> first plane goes 001122338899aabb
18:52:23 <Combuster> second goes 44556677ccddeeff
18:52:30 <TrueBrain> what an idiotic coding :s
18:52:30 <tux_mark_5> i know what conflict is
18:52:38 <tux_mark_5> but openttd has dynamic engine pool
18:52:44 <Combuster> guess what the EGA did
18:52:51 <tux_mark_5> which shouldn't let any conflicts happen in the first place
18:52:57 <Combuster> each bit of a pixel went in a different memory chip
18:53:14 <planetmaker> tux_mark_5, but if different grfs modify the basecosts - you're screwed, as there's only one base cost value
18:53:32 <planetmaker> or you have to live with partially rediculous prices
18:53:37 <tux_mark_5> so why each engine can't have separete structs for base costs?
18:53:41 <planetmaker> either way too low or high or whatever
18:53:49 <planetmaker> tux_mark_5, BASE cost
18:53:50 <petern> some grfs specifically conflict with other grfs, instead of using grm to allocate vehicles
18:54:08 <petern> so engine pool or not won't help that
18:54:13 <planetmaker> as opposed to INDIVIUAL cost
18:54:18 <tux_mark_5> each GRF, as far as I know, modifies only original set
18:54:46 <tux_mark_5> so a copy of original grf can be kept for each change
18:54:56 <tux_mark_5> this way each GRF would have it's "virtual base"
18:54:59 <petern> dbset ecs extension, for example, modifies dbset...
18:55:04 <planetmaker> and how do add-on grfs then know which to modify?
18:55:18 <tux_mark_5> well, that's crap then
18:55:27 <SmatZ> planetmaker: hardcoded ;)
18:55:36 <Ammler> planetmaker: they do actually.
18:55:40 <petern> tux_mark_5, no, you misunderstand :)
18:55:42 <Combuster> (includes PDF downloads)
18:55:47 <planetmaker> SmatZ, yeah. Let's introduce also magic numbers again :)
18:56:02 <TrueBrain> Combuster: cool :) But I was just hoping for some simple copy/paste code to use :p
18:56:03 <tux_mark_5> could you elaborate?
18:56:04 <petern> dynamic engine pool works as expected, vehicles are allocated as and when
18:56:19 <petern> but some grfs specifically disable themselves if another grf is active
18:56:24 <Combuster> TB: if you want BASIC code... :)
18:56:30 <TrueBrain> Combuster: anything is fine by me
18:56:34 <TrueBrain> as this is driving me crazy :)
18:56:44 <tux_mark_5> i saw that inside NARS2
18:56:55 <Combuster> I don't have single-shift reading, but you could adapt the planar reading
18:57:02 <tux_mark_5> 38 * 9 07 88 04 \7GG 50 4E FF 00 BA
18:57:20 <petern> we don't prevent it being disabled, because there are plenty of other reasons for grfs to disable themselves
18:57:39 <petern> if all vehicle sets migrated to using grm then it would be fine
18:58:13 <petern> on the other hand, it wasn't really designed to support loading multiple sets. that was just a byproduct of allowing more vehicle types
18:58:51 <tux_mark_5> well, grf's could be loaded to a tree-like structure
18:58:56 <tux_mark_5> which could be specified by the user
18:59:12 <tux_mark_5> this way user could select which grf has which base
18:59:26 <tux_mark_5> this way there could be multiple bases
18:59:36 <tux_mark_5> and no pricing screw-up
18:59:43 <petern> base costs are another matter
19:00:13 <tux_mark_5> the current GRF format is quite "dumm" in my opinion
19:00:24 <petern> you're welcome to your opinion, even if it's wrong.
19:00:48 <[wito]> Why is it that planes can't crash on takeoff?
19:01:00 <tux_mark_5> well, i don't see any reason why grf couldn't specify it's own base prices
19:01:08 <tux_mark_5> without using default
19:01:21 <petern> tux_mark_5, because base costs cover more than just vehicle base costs
19:01:26 <[wito]> because as I understand it, most aircraft crashes actually happen on takeoff
19:01:49 <tux_mark_5> but still, if each GRF had it's own, then there would be no such problem
19:02:05 <[wito]> followed closely by landing, with in-flight crashes being on the order of < 10%
19:02:14 <petern> if each grf had its own, which base cost would you use for terraforming?
19:02:29 <tux_mark_5> which has highest priority ;D
19:02:52 <[wito]> and 7% crash risk seems way to high anyway
19:03:17 <Ammler> tux_mark_5: you aren't the first, trying to get that.
19:03:57 <tux_mark_5> just wondering why better format hasn't been developed
19:04:16 <tux_mark_5> still, current GRF is hard to read, hard to edit and it's quite limited
19:04:21 <[wito]> tux_mark_5: start your own project
19:04:31 <planetmaker> tux_mark_5, then make a "better" implementation which covers all cases and retains backward compatibility
19:04:34 <petern> or continue one of the several "attempts"
19:04:51 <planetmaker> tux_mark_5, you're quite wrong on "quite limited" :)
19:05:06 <tux_mark_5> 32 goto labels are quite limited
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19:05:27 <tux_mark_5> and writing in something like hex editor is quite limited too
19:05:33 <tux_mark_5> even assembler has better syntax
19:05:34 <Ammler> well, chain the basecost per grf would maybe break 2 grfs and fix issue of 50 other grfs.
19:05:56 <petern> 32 is more than i'd ever need
19:06:07 <planetmaker> 640kB is more than enough.
19:06:28 <tux_mark_5> but if systems imposes some sort of limitations it means that it can be improved
19:06:34 <tux_mark_5> and that the code isn't perfect
19:06:35 * petern ponders fixing the stupid solution once and for all and removing the capability of loading multiple sets together
19:07:12 <tux_mark_5> but the simplest solution would be to load GRF's into some sort of tree
19:07:27 <glx> tux_mark_5: most newgrf limits are ttdpatch limits
19:07:27 <tux_mark_5> with multiple bases
19:07:47 <petern> actually i think the 32 limit was removed
19:07:55 <petern> not that you'd need 32
19:08:04 <petern> if you do, you're doing it wrong
19:08:19 <tux_mark_5> i am not creating my own grfs
19:08:24 <tux_mark_5> the limit was just an observation
19:08:25 <petern> well then you have no idea
19:08:33 <planetmaker> there _is_ a limit on the number of newgrfs. Just saw it the other day in the German forums where a guy added ALL newgrfs in our #openttdcoop pack - and then complained
19:08:53 <tux_mark_5> i want them all xD
19:08:57 <glx> planetmaker: there's a limit on file handlers
19:09:11 * fjb votes for introducing a 16 (or 32) bit cost variable in the next GRF spec.
19:09:22 <planetmaker> glx, the error message was something like "too many grf files" though. But so what...?
19:09:41 <tux_mark_5> i don't like limits, if there is some sort of limit in my code I tend to remove it by rewriting the whole code ;D
19:09:43 <Ammler> fjb: and how is that backwards compatible?
19:09:56 <[wito]> Ammler: you don't always need backwards compatible
19:09:58 <tux_mark_5> you still have like 99+ of action codes
19:10:02 <[wito]> sometimes you can simply sniff for the format
19:10:12 <petern> tux_mark_5, int64 gives you a limit. it's a big limit, but it's still a limit...
19:10:12 <fjb> Ammler: It doesn't break anything and is the only clean solution.
19:10:14 <Ammler> I don't, just someone else wanted :-)
19:10:27 <tux_mark_5> well, int64 is enough for me
19:10:41 <petern> now make everything an int64 for ... future need
19:10:44 <tux_mark_5> but there exist things like bignum and other libs which handle
19:10:45 <planetmaker> there's no need for new grfs to be loaded with old programmes. But old grfs should still be loadable.
19:10:59 <[wito]> replacing the current rather arbitrary file format with, say, and XML and PNG gzipped up into a neat bundle format and sniffing the first 2-4 bytes of a .grf would enable one to simply add a if-else
19:10:59 <petern> and then watch performance suck and memory usage creep
19:11:01 <tux_mark_5> planetmaker: i agree
19:11:03 <fjb> Try putting an IPv6 address into a 64bit variable...
19:11:15 <tux_mark_5> memcpy saves the day
19:11:23 <Ammler> fjb: well, you "could" copy BASE*cost to that, if it doesn't exist in the grf you load.
19:11:35 <[wito]> corollary: XML is like violnce
19:11:47 <petern> if it's not working you're not using enough?
19:11:52 <[wito]> if it doesn't solve all your problems, you aren't using enough
19:12:09 <tux_mark_5> [wito]: XML would be like a dream compared to current HEX tragedy
19:12:17 <fjb> Ammler: But just copying the base cost would still limit the price spread of that grf.
19:12:47 <tux_mark_5> it doesn't have to be even XML
19:12:59 <SmatZ> tux_mark_5: feel free to code a XML->GRF compiler
19:13:07 <tux_mark_5> assembly or basic would be nicer than
19:13:18 <petern> tux_mark_5, do you, by any chance, hand code executable object dumps?
19:13:35 <[wito]> point is; one doesn't want an XML compiler
19:13:38 <tux_mark_5> but i'm not a huge fan of XML
19:13:53 <petern> shame that nobody's written a fully capable compile for grf...
19:13:56 <[wito]> one wants to `gzip -9 -o myproject.grf myproject/`
19:14:22 <tux_mark_5> python (or any other) script could do it
19:14:24 <[wito]> where myproject/ contains nfo.grfml and sprites.png
19:14:51 <tux_mark_5> well, I could write a compiler
19:15:05 <tux_mark_5> because I've been writing various scripting languages for ages
19:16:22 <tux_mark_5> it has to be opposite
19:16:39 <tux_mark_5> anyway, the point is
19:16:49 <SmatZ> there is grf->html already
19:16:51 <tux_mark_5> when you have a good parser it isn't hard to code simple compiler
19:16:52 <[wito]> the xml could contain <grfscript> blocks written in, ohidon'tknow squirrel?
19:17:02 <Ammler> do not start with Action0 for demo.
19:17:13 <[wito]> or just squirrel .nuts
19:17:28 <tux_mark_5> interpreted directly
19:17:29 <[wito]> NoAI and NoMapGen are already in squirrel
19:17:32 <planetmaker> compile speed doesn't matter for a grf compiler / maker / whatever-means-to-create
19:17:42 <[wito]> I don't know why one shouldn't continue the theme
19:17:45 <tux_mark_5> well, you are right
19:18:10 <tux_mark_5> GRF could be updated to something nicer
19:18:28 <tux_mark_5> noone uses old openttd versions anyway, so no backwards compatibility is needed
19:18:41 <luckz> does anybody care if it's slow?
19:18:43 <planetmaker> then you need to update it to something nicer which is at least as fast as current newgrf and offers at least their flexibility
19:19:08 <[wito]> squirrel is Fast Enough™
19:19:17 <planetmaker> I've serious doubts you'll even come up with an idea on how to tackle that efficiently
19:19:24 <tux_mark_5> and that "nicer" thing could be even the same modified GRF
19:19:40 <tux_mark_5> for example: why the hell do we need to remember all the action id's
19:19:55 <tux_mark_5> why there can't be a normal enum for that
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19:20:36 <glx> <tux_mark_5> noone uses old openttd versions anyway, so no backwards compatibility is needed <-- but openttd didn't create newgrf specs
19:20:58 <Hirundo> then write a bunch of #defines and feed your nfo through the C preprocessor or something similar
19:21:09 <DaleStan> <tux_mark_5> why there can't be a normal enum for [action numbers] <-- There can. Use the "// Escapes:" line.
19:21:10 <tux_mark_5> Hirundo: i had just the same idea
19:21:32 <tux_mark_5> so the question is: why do we stick to old GRF-like syntax?
19:21:45 <glx> because it exists and it's used
19:22:05 <tux_mark_5> and is it so hard to create something better?
19:22:23 <glx> and hope for a conversion of all existing grfs ?
19:22:43 <DaleStan> Why don't you give it a try, tux_mark_5?
19:22:43 <tux_mark_5> why would we need to convert them?
19:22:58 <tux_mark_5> openttd could handle serveral formats at the same time
19:23:05 <tux_mark_5> while one would be "obsolete"
19:23:19 <tux_mark_5> and other would be "nice and shiny" ;D
19:23:24 <glx> tux_mark_5: you seem to forgot the other newgrf interpreter
19:23:25 <Hirundo> I would not hope for a replacement for the GRF syntax
19:24:01 <glx> all grfs are mainly written for it
19:24:16 <tux_mark_5> still, openttd could have it's native format
19:24:32 <Ammler> why isn't it that more difficult to write a compiler than to make a new syntax?
19:24:40 <tux_mark_5> and ttdpatch is getting superseded by openttd anyway
19:24:47 <tux_mark_5> so ttdpach will be history soon
19:25:03 <tux_mark_5> openttd offers more features, it's under heaver development
19:25:38 <planetmaker> Ammler, is right: if you can create a new syntax and implement that, it's probably the same work, to write a compiler of something new into the old newgrf language
19:26:06 <planetmaker> or directly into the newgrf format as is
19:26:38 <Hirundo> Indeed, a something->nfo compiler would be more feasible
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19:27:59 <planetmaker> and: grfcodec's source is available. Anyone could go and make adjustments.
19:28:14 <tux_mark_5> something->nfo might be a good idea
19:28:19 <planetmaker> DaleStan, the license would allow to even publish those, right?
19:28:26 <tux_mark_5> this way openttd code base would be smaller
19:28:48 <planetmaker> then go for it :)
19:28:53 <Xaroth> why do you want to make the codebase smaller?
19:29:01 <Xaroth> isn't the idea of adding features, that you expand it ?
19:29:08 <DaleStan> The license for GRFCodec? Absolutely. It's GPL v2, IIRC. Or maybe "2 or any later".
19:29:23 <tux_mark_5> well, smaller codebase of loading GRFs -> faster game
19:29:33 <planetmaker> thx for confirming. I seeme to remember, but have not available here atm
19:29:46 <tux_mark_5> and if NFO would be more complex, then loading big grs would take a lot of time
19:30:25 <tux_mark_5> using interpreted languages vs compiled languages
19:30:49 <tux_mark_5> something needs to be done about that pricing wreckage
19:31:29 <Hirundo> I fear that *someone* will have to add this to his/her to do list...
19:32:20 <planetmaker> /s/*someone*/tux_mark_5/
19:32:51 <tux_mark_5> the tree thing wouldn't be too difficult to implement
19:33:05 <tux_mark_5> the only difficult thing would be writing the UI
19:33:25 * Hirundo doubts the validity of both statments
19:33:41 <tux_mark_5> writing UI always makes me sick
19:33:58 <tux_mark_5> and I'm not sure how UI API works in openttd
19:34:06 <tux_mark_5> so that's why i *guess*
19:34:27 <tux_mark_5> and creating some sort of tree can't be that difficult
19:34:44 <tux_mark_5> currently all grfs are stored in some sort of a list/array/something
19:35:04 <tux_mark_5> and on top of that list there is original engine
19:35:37 <tux_mark_5> or even creation of "separate" lists would resolve that
19:36:36 <tux_mark_5> it caught my attention
19:36:46 <tux_mark_5> can't sleep without checking openttd source first
19:37:20 <planetmaker> take care. You're opening bottles of worms
19:38:41 <luckz> what is the UI problem here?
19:39:53 <dihedral> [21:32] <tux_mark_5> the tree thing wouldn't be too difficult to implement <- can you code?
19:40:05 <glx> <tux_mark_5> and I'm not sure how UI API works in openttd <-- most of us don't know either ;)
19:40:14 <PeterT> i finally got an irc client
19:40:19 <dihedral> do you know openttd source code a bit?
19:40:28 <tux_mark_5> dihedral: no i don't
19:40:34 <tux_mark_5> i'm checking ir right now
19:40:41 <PeterT> Xaroth: I got xchat, it seems nice and simple
19:41:09 <dihedral> oh - you are the peter who joins my server?
19:41:20 <Ammler> Xaroth: he said "client" :P
19:41:32 <dihedral> irssi IS a client Ammler
19:41:38 <Xaroth> ... besides 'godlike' .
19:42:58 *** Dred_furst has joined #openttd
19:44:34 <luckz> irssi is the only client.
19:44:58 <tux_mark_5> but i don't use it
19:45:06 <luckz> admittedly some parts of the reconnection/rejoining routines are moronic and broken.
19:45:48 <Xaroth> reconnecting routines is a bit messy at times
19:47:26 <Xaroth> hmm, star trek on tv, code on the main screen... think my geek level increased a notch..
19:47:43 <PeterT> dihedral: yes, im the peter that joined your server
19:47:57 *** oskari89 has joined #openttd
19:48:00 <PeterT> dehidral: do you have any control over the maps that the game generates?
19:48:16 <PeterT> dehidral: lately they've been very strange
19:48:34 *** Dred_furst has joined #openttd
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20:07:44 *** TinoDidriksen has joined #openttd
20:10:19 <planetmaker> gah. how nice. turned on a lab computer. First thing which happens upon login: crash of temp1.exe.
20:10:38 <TinoDidriksen> Worm infestation?
20:10:43 <planetmaker> next thing: zone alarm detects two trojans on the computer: temp1.exe and another...
20:11:35 <TinoDidriksen> Lab computers running with admin rights?
20:12:32 <TinoDidriksen> Anyway, nightly reimaging is good.
20:13:14 <planetmaker> would make sense, yes :S
20:13:29 <planetmaker> the computer was alright as long as I had it under supervision... alas...
20:13:37 <PeterT> openttd 0.7.1 RC1 is out
20:13:38 <planetmaker> other people started to play with it :(
20:13:50 <planetmaker> PeterT, I think people here know that :P
20:14:17 <planetmaker> there's a bot which announces commits to openttd :)
20:16:53 <planetmaker> <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r16279 /tags/0.7.1-RC1 (5 files in 3 dirs) (2009-05-11 15:45:50 UTC)
20:16:53 <planetmaker> <DorpsGek> -Release: 0.7.1-RC1
20:17:47 <PeterT> planetmaker: good that you copy and pasted it, but it doesnt make a difference now....
20:17:49 *** ctibor_ has joined #openttd
20:18:32 <DorpsGek> petern: Commit by rubidium :: r16279 /tags/0.7.1-RC1 (5 files in 3 dirs) (2009-05-11 15:45:50 UTC)
20:18:33 <DorpsGek> petern: -Release: 0.7.1-RC1
20:18:54 <DorpsGek> PeterT: Commit by smatz :: r16281 trunk/src/win32.cpp (2009-05-11 18:48:05 UTC)
20:18:55 <DorpsGek> PeterT: -Fix: silence some of compile farm warnings for target win9x
20:20:13 <PeterT> what does "IPv4" mean?
20:23:04 <frosch123> ipv4 is uncool old crap, no need to bother about it :)
20:23:22 <PeterT> was just looking at openttd.org
20:23:35 <PeterT> frosch123: are you an openttd dev?
20:24:32 <frosch123> the rest knows wikipedia :p
20:25:33 <frosch123> if it tells you "As you are accessing this site through a IPv4 address, some advanced IPv6 features might not be available", you are doomed :p
20:25:54 <SpComb> your internet connection will suddenly stop working in two or three years time
20:26:01 <PeterT> do i need to know anything about ipv4/ipv6?
20:26:49 <PeterT> will it really stop working?
20:27:01 <SpComb> address space exhaustion
20:27:23 <SpComb> the internet will instantaneously break and everyone goes back to the stone age
20:27:31 <SpComb> do not pass go, do not collect 200$
20:29:22 *** Combuster has joined #openttd
20:31:26 <Belugas> [15:06] <tux_mark_5> just wondering why better format hasn't been developed <-- because you were not there to show us how crap all thses lines of codes and all those specs are. We bow in front of you are awaiting Enlightment from Thee , Ho Our Saviour
20:31:46 <DorpsGek> PeterT: Commit by smatz :: r16281 trunk/src/win32.cpp (2009-05-11 18:48:05 UTC)
20:31:47 <DorpsGek> PeterT: -Fix: silence some of compile farm warnings for target win9x
20:31:56 <frosch123> Belugas: don't take it too personal :)
20:32:25 <frosch123> PeterT: it is more interesting if you append a number at the end
20:32:36 <PeterT> does "@openttd commit" automatically send updates or just every time enter the command?
20:33:26 <Belugas> [15:14] <tux_mark_5> [wito]: XML would be like a dream compared to current HEX tragedy <--- Why ThE HELL have we not though about that before :S !!!
20:34:53 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: Commit by rubidium :: r15024 /branches/noai/src (6 files in 3 dirs) (2009-01-12 16:28:01 UTC)
20:34:54 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: [NoAI] -Cleanup: remove some hacks
20:35:04 <glx> Belugas: no need to re-explain ;)
20:35:08 <SmatZ> if you know what you are searching for :)
20:35:13 <DorpsGek> PeterT: Invalid arguments for _commit.
20:35:23 <Belugas> frosch123, it's just pissing me so much to read so mcu stupidity in so little time
20:35:23 <PeterT> @openttd commit r12345
20:35:23 <DorpsGek> PeterT: Invalid arguments for _commit.
20:36:18 <glx> you can do it in private with the bot too
20:36:35 <PeterT> hmmm frosch " (svn r16274) -Fix: Disable multitile houses for which the newgrf does not define proper additional tiles. (instead of crashing later):
20:37:11 <frosch123> Belugas: Then take a piece of paper, write down what you think the discussion will end with, and enjoy watching whether your prophecy takes place :)
20:37:52 <frosch123> I guess there are at least 5 outcomes :)
20:38:03 <Belugas> ho... i dson't hav the intention to lift the smallest finger on the issue :)
20:40:07 <Xaroth> PeterT: don't add the r infront of the revision..
20:40:46 <PeterT> how might i make a private message
20:41:00 <Xaroth> /msg DorpsGek @openttd commit 12345
20:41:25 <glx> @ is not needed in private
20:42:17 <PeterT> i thought it would show in this window, instead of opening another one
20:42:44 <Xaroth> no, that's the whole essence of a Private Message
20:43:39 <PeterT> i meant like <Private:DorpsGek> ....................
20:44:57 *** ctibor_ has joined #openttd
20:46:19 <Azrael-> If you want to show in this window, just use /notice instead of /msg
20:47:17 <glx> Azrael-: DorpsGek doesn't reply to notice :)
20:47:35 <PeterT> "/notice openttd commit 0.7.0
20:47:58 <glx> 0.7.0 is not a valid revision number
20:48:44 <PeterT> whats the revision number for 0.7.0?
20:50:50 <PeterT> how do you find that out?
20:54:51 *** ctibor__ has joined #openttd
20:56:56 <SmatZ> ctibor__: GPRS is a wired technology used to have stable connection to internet, right? :-p
20:57:36 <SmatZ> about 10 reconnects in last hour ;)
20:58:06 <SmatZ> hmm vodafone... internet censorship...
20:58:21 <ctibor__> SmatZ: Yeah, curse them...
20:58:53 <ctibor__> SmatZ: But half of the reconnects were my reboots :-)
20:59:02 <glx> maybe he's at the junction of 2 relays
21:00:55 <ctibor__> i have gprs modem sticked to openwrt and sometimes the modem just lose PIN number
21:01:50 <Belugas> PIN ? Someone said PIN?
21:02:11 <Belugas> which encryption management??
21:02:38 <PeterT> whats the difference between nightlies and trunk?
21:03:02 <glx> none when nightlies are compiled
21:05:17 <SmatZ> now earning real money in OTTD! (?)
21:06:24 <PeterT> but the wiki search is sort of limited
21:06:24 <glx> SmatZ: I guess he wants to transfer money to another company
21:06:37 <frosch123> SmatZ: nice idea, we should offer converting 1 euro into 1000 ingame dollars :)
21:06:38 <PeterT> sometimes i search something
21:06:56 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Bjarni
21:07:08 <DorpsGek> glx: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 5 days, 0 hours, 14 minutes, and 14 seconds ago: <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause: single step?
21:07:15 <SmatZ> glx: seems so, but he's in very wrong section :-x
21:07:34 <Eddi|zuHause> double-highlight?
21:07:36 <Bjarni> now that's an interesting greeting :s
21:08:29 <Eddi|zuHause> # if i had just one more day
21:08:39 <Eddi|zuHause> # i would tell you how much i missed you
21:08:43 <Eddi|zuHause> # since you were away
21:09:47 <Eddi|zuHause> # oooh it's dangerous, but so am i
21:09:53 <Eddi|zuHause> # to try and turn back time
21:11:05 <Eddi|zuHause> (that is really one of the greatest songs of all times)
21:12:18 <Eddi|zuHause> (after listening to it 200 times, it still gives me the chills)
21:15:46 *** [com]buster has joined #openttd
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21:21:16 <TrueBrain> Combuster: I found my problem ......... I was reading the mmory all the time correct, but I fucked up the handling of the 'test' command ;)
21:21:21 <TrueBrain> so writing was corrupted ... :$
21:21:24 <TrueBrain> tnx again for your time :)
21:22:31 <SmatZ> I am quite impressed of Combuster being such ASM-pro ;)
21:23:50 <Combuster> er SmatZ: why ASM pro?
21:23:55 <frosch123> reminds me about Ralf Brown's interrupt list :)
21:24:22 <TrueBrain> I think SmatZ is on those pills again :p
21:24:28 * Combuster bows to the holy list
21:24:37 <SmatZ> Combuster: frosch123: not many people know about CGA (or even how it works!) ... or about RBIL! ;)
21:24:55 <frosch123> yes, SmatZ, I also belong to those who started their own OS at the age of 13
21:25:06 <TrueBrain> frosch123: you ever finished it? :p
21:25:26 <Combuster> neither did I (yet)
21:25:36 <Combuster> got 2D acceleration
21:25:42 <frosch123> it took me one year to discover that my assembler translated LIDT incorrect :(
21:25:43 <Combuster> which is something few others managed
21:26:17 <Combuster> And why is #openttd suddenly looking like #osdev
21:26:55 <Bjarni> Combuster: because everybody here cares for quality coding XD
21:26:56 <TrueBrain> WHIIIIIIIIIIIiiiiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
21:27:00 <TrueBrain> I have an animated cat walking over my screen :)
21:27:05 <TrueBrain> I can do 16bit -> C! :)
21:27:56 <SmatZ> remember to run your IRC client out of ring0 ;)
21:28:39 <Aali> fortunately my OS was microkernel-based, so I had very little code in ring0 :P
21:29:22 <SmatZ> not at OFTC it I guess :-x
21:31:45 <Eddi|zuHause> why is Rubidium not here, anyway?
21:32:46 <Eddi|zuHause> someone should do a sociological study: people who quit IRC get more active in the forums
21:33:19 <Prof_Frink> someone should do a sociological study: people who quit IRC get a life
21:33:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i cannot support that statement
21:33:37 <frosch123> is there a life beyond the internet?
21:33:50 <Prof_Frink> frosch123: I've heard rumours.
21:34:10 <Eddi|zuHause> i quit IRC for like 6 weeks, and everything just spiraled downwards
21:34:53 * frosch123 assumes everyone knows the picture linked from belugas' signature
21:34:57 <Eddi|zuHause> it's like saying "people who quit smoking get better health"
21:35:34 <Eddi|zuHause> which might be correct for the 2% of people who actually manage to permanently quit
21:35:48 <Eddi|zuHause> but the other 98% just fall back
21:36:16 <Eddi|zuHause> (what's the correct english term for that?)
21:36:45 <Prof_Frink> Give up giving up.
21:36:54 <Eddi|zuHause> (german is too logical in assembling words for new meanings, i can never figure out what illogical words the other languages invent for that)
21:37:19 <frosch123> "In Berlin haben rund 200 Milchbäuerinnen ihr Nachtlager direkt vor dem Kanzleramt aufgeschlagen." <- the female form gives it some different interpretation...
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21:37:37 <Prof_Frink> nacht lager, drink proper beer.
21:37:48 <Prof_Frink> That's all I got from that.
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21:38:24 <Eddi|zuHause> like, if wool grows on a tree, it's called tree-wool (Baumwolle)
21:38:40 <Eddi|zuHause> other languages invent totally unrelated names like "cotton"
21:38:42 <Prof_Frink> Wool doesn't grow in trees.
21:38:53 <Prof_Frink> Trees grow in Wool.
21:39:30 <frosch123> but the news are flawed today anyway. another one reported about a girl which got attacked at school and was slightly injured at her hand, but managed to *drag*herself to the secretary :s
21:40:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i heard something about them trying to reattach the girl's thumb
21:40:09 <Brianetta> but Eddie, it's not wool
21:40:14 <Brianetta> Wool is an animal product
21:40:26 <Eddi|zuHause> so i'm not sure what's considered "slightly injured"
21:40:46 <Eddi|zuHause> Brianetta: who says that?
21:40:47 <Prof_Frink> No, it's a place near Winfrith.
21:42:00 <Eddi|zuHause> Brianetta: there's all kinds of wool in german. some not remotely related to animals
21:42:11 <Eddi|zuHause> "Glaswolle" for example
21:42:12 <PeterT> how do you make a "goto nearest depot order"?
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21:42:48 <frosch123> click on the dropdown next to "goto"
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21:43:51 <Eddi|zuHause> the dropdown that allows conditional orders, i presume
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21:46:59 <PeterT> what is conditional orders?
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21:49:19 <Eddi|zuHause> i (still) have a feature request: when starting from a station, first check the next order to be executed, and if that jumps back to the order where it started from, do not leave from the station
21:50:02 <frosch123> that breaks selfregulating networks
21:50:37 <Eddi|zuHause> but it allows "leave when load is over 50%"
21:51:20 <Bjarni> I don't get the idea behind that feature request
21:52:10 <Eddi|zuHause> Bjarni: assume an order list:
21:52:12 <frosch123> Bjarni: you know about conditional orders?
21:52:15 <Eddi|zuHause> 1: go to station A
21:52:25 <Eddi|zuHause> 2: if load < 50%, jump to 1
21:52:48 <Eddi|zuHause> 3: if load = 100%, jump to 5
21:52:54 <Eddi|zuHause> 4: go to station B
21:52:59 <Eddi|zuHause> 5: go to station C
21:53:19 <petern> if owner = Eddi|zuHause, breakdown
21:53:41 <Eddi|zuHause> petern: that's fine, as i play with breakdowns off anyway :p
21:53:54 <petern> if owner = Eddi|zuHause, turn breakdowns on and breakdown
21:54:24 <Bjarni> if (owner == Eddi|zuHause) this.Derail();
21:54:38 <Bjarni> and we will implement Derail just for you
21:55:21 <Prof_Frink> petern: You should know that under certain circumstances vehicles can break down even with breakdowns off.
21:55:51 <PeterT> does bringing stuff from an idustry increase it
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21:56:26 <Eddi|zuHause> depends on the industry
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21:57:04 <Eddi|zuHause> primary industries have a higher chance on increasing production when servicing over 70%
21:57:16 <Bjarni> actually I'm sure it does
21:57:23 <Bjarni> well odds are that it will
21:57:31 <Bjarni> but there is an amount of randomness
21:57:38 <PeterT> nope, im on ! megas europe map classic
21:58:27 <KingJ> Incidentally, is it actually possible to get any score on "Minimum profit of vehicles at least two years old" when playing a reasonably sized game? I can max all the others easily, but never that one
21:59:00 <frosch123> KingJ: activate inflation
21:59:31 <KingJ> Ah, I play with it off because it skews profit tracking
21:59:57 <PeterT> what about if its a very high production, and you dont use it, then it goes low and you use it, will it go back up?
22:00:30 <frosch123> KingJ: everyone knows that the score is silly :)
22:01:15 <Bjarni> PeterT: industries don't have a history of how they used to be. They only know current production and how much you transport
22:01:22 <SmatZ> even without inflation...
22:01:25 <frosch123> SmatZ: the 10000 is not affected by inflation
22:01:40 <SmatZ> frosch123: yeah, I don't understand your point :)
22:01:47 <Bjarni> peterT: aim at as much as possible and it will likely increase in production
22:01:48 <frosch123> try to make 10000 profit with a truck
22:02:02 <SmatZ> frosch123: trains only here :-/
22:02:09 <SmatZ> but I get you now, thanks :)
22:02:15 <frosch123> SmatZ: to become tycoon you need all vehicle types
22:02:31 *** Cybertinus|0068646 is now known as Cybertinus
22:02:38 <frosch123> actually, no idea :)
22:03:00 <KingJ> Nothing about vehicle types there
22:03:06 <SmatZ> I don't think so :) you just need 8 cargo types
22:12:09 <PeterT> i like the feature that the town grows alongside roads you build
22:12:31 <PeterT> like a highway from a city to transfer to an airport, the house are right along the road
22:13:15 <Xaroth> TrueBrain: that grfid reader code thingie you showed me ages ago, does that also read grf names?
22:13:49 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: would it be named grfid if it did? :) :) :)
22:13:57 <TrueBrain> ask petern if you want that :)
22:14:11 <Xaroth> nah, no worries at this point
22:14:27 <Xaroth> just wanted to know if it had it so i could already copy the functionality for some future blue moon
22:14:54 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know where your grfid-reader reads the grfid from, but reading the name afterwards should be straightforward
22:15:07 <glx> if you can read grfid, you can read name :)
22:15:32 <Xaroth> well I figgured it'd be a piece of piss
22:15:41 <Xaroth> but I never actually looked at what I ported to C# :P
22:15:51 <Eddi|zuHause> just keep on reading untill the next 0-byte
22:16:10 <Xaroth> that's more easy than i thought it'd be :P
22:16:16 <glx> look for action 8 in grf spec
22:16:17 <TrueBrain> just make sure to test for weird grfs
22:16:28 <TrueBrain> (so don't assume a \0 ;))
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22:18:34 <frosch123> Xaroth: and if you then read on until the second \0 you will get the description :) but note that there are lots of newgrfs out there who do not manage to properly terminate them with \0 :)
22:19:09 <Xaroth> frosch123: I think getting grf name would be more than enough for an updater app..
22:21:00 <Xaroth> hm, interesting stuffs
22:21:14 <Xaroth> most useless for AutoTTD, but interesting nontheless
22:27:27 <TrueBrain> Combuster: I have alleycat begin-screen working, native 32bit linux app :p
23:06:11 *** plasma.oftc.net sets mode: +v glx
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23:51:12 <DorpsGek> PeterT: Commit by smatz :: r16281 trunk/src/win32.cpp (2009-05-11 18:48:05 UTC)
23:51:13 <DorpsGek> PeterT: -Fix: silence some of compile farm warnings for target win9x
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23:53:00 <SmatZ> PeterT: you will hardly make development faster this way :-p
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