IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-05-10
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00:00:30 <Chruker> the abstractlist is just a parent function from which all the different types of list inherits their basic functionality
00:01:03 <Chruker> However those inherited functions are documented in the specific list types
00:02:32 <Yexo> I think list are always sorted, so it'll just keep the first item
00:02:41 <Yexo> you can influence the sort order with Sort
00:03:13 <Yexo> if you sort the list first, it'll definatly keep the first item
00:03:15 <Chruker> I know. Just dont know if they are always sorted
00:03:31 <Yexo> I think they are, but if I were you I wouldn't depend on it
00:03:38 <Yexo> just call sort once to be sure
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04:21:09 <z-MaTRiX> your dns checker has some bug
04:21:15 <Nite_Owl> most of the European crowd is asleep
04:21:24 <z-MaTRiX> [061949] * *** Your forward and reverse DNS do not match, ignoring hostname.
04:21:39 <z-MaTRiX> [062036] * *** Found your hostname
04:22:07 <z-MaTRiX> hi Nite_Owl what's up?
04:22:22 <Nite_Owl> DNS in relation to what?
04:22:33 <z-MaTRiX> pasted from snotices
04:22:52 <z-MaTRiX> sometimes it says fail
04:23:10 <Nite_Owl> what were you trying to access
04:23:29 <z-MaTRiX> me? this irc channel
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05:14:45 <torahteen> Agh, okay... could someone explain how to get a PBS signal system working?
05:14:49 <torahteen> Which signals go where?
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09:53:15 <SmoovTruck> quick question... what is the key/mouse combination to flip an engine around in a multi-headed train, in the depot window?
09:54:59 <Eddi|zuHause> but it only works for single engines, not articulated ones
09:57:56 <SmoovTruck> oh well... it is a single engine, but is throwing out the multiple unit error
09:58:10 <SmoovTruck> probably the GRF author's oversight
09:58:22 <Eddi|zuHause> well then it's not a single engine
09:58:29 <SmoovTruck> but it is a single engine
10:01:48 <TrueBrain> "it is" - "it isn't" ... I love this conversation :)
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10:05:59 <Alberth> highly constructive :)
10:06:27 <Alberth> SmoovTruck: it may look like a single engine to you, but the game doesn't look at graphics, it looks at data supplied by the GRF author.
10:07:11 <Alberth> and like all information supplied more than once, it may be inconsistent
10:07:15 <SmoovTruck> which brings us back to "probably the GRF author's oversight"... doesn't it...
10:07:46 <SmoovTruck> which I already said... so... why continue to argue?
10:08:19 *** SmoovTruck is now known as Smoovious
10:08:29 <Alberth> (11:59:00) SmoovTruck: but it is a single engine <-- because you continued
10:08:32 <petern> if it's articulated...
10:08:44 <Smoovious> in response to Eddi|zuHause
10:08:52 <Smoovious> it is not articulated
10:10:00 <petern> if it's not an MU, and not articulated, there are no restrictions
10:10:18 <petern> there is nothing in a grf that can change that
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10:10:33 <petern> so maybe it's a bug :p
10:10:59 <petern> more like it's a 'hidden' articulation
10:11:48 <Smoovious> it is a single electrical unit... not an articulared steam engine... not a multiple unit...
10:11:52 <petern> without any information, only you can know
10:12:00 <Smoovious> anyways, thanks for the command help... back to the game
10:12:40 <petern> for example, some of the 'single' electric engines in dbsetxl are articulated
10:13:49 <Smoovious> this one, however, is not
10:14:10 <TrueBrain> and it continues: "it is" - "it isn't" - "it is" - "it isn't"
10:14:13 <TrueBrain> I should record this :)
10:14:54 <Alberth> oftc.net does already, you only need to record the url :)
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10:29:37 <Ammler> coop pack has 200 newgrfs.
10:30:02 <frosch123> so he only loaded the half of it?
10:30:16 <Eddi|zuHause> what weird kind of format is that? it opens in GIMP instead of Gwenview...
10:30:33 <frosch123> the quality looks like jpeg
10:32:29 <frosch123> TrueBrain: it gives me a nice start into the day after dreaming about 3 bugs
10:32:32 * FR^2 throws some sauerkraut at TrueBrain ;)
10:32:55 <TrueBrain> why do you dream about bugs?! :)
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10:34:00 <frosch123> you should not ask, but commiserate
10:35:27 <Milloflex> time for breakfast, brb
10:48:27 <Alberth> frosch123: yes, good post. "es macht auch überhaupt keinen Sinn die originale Spielidee mit immer mehr zusätzlichen Spielkonzeptionen zu überfrachten." (it doesn't make sense to 'overload' the original game idea with more and more additional game concepts.)
10:49:05 <frosch123> I did not mean that post :p
10:49:38 <Alberth> I skipped some parts, too many difficult words :p
10:53:25 <frosch123> the italic part is the most interesting part
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11:35:54 <Ammler> "You're seeing this error because you have DEBUG = True in your Django settings file."
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12:26:33 <Milloflex> is there anyway to change singal type trough any hotkey? 'S' brings up the singal, that i know.
12:27:10 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: frosch * r16264 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_tile.hpp: -Change/Fix (r16262): [NoAI] Change SLOPE_INVALID to 0xFFFF so that SLOPE_INVALID != (SLOPE_ELEVATED | SLOPE_STEEP | SLOPE_HALFTILE_MASK).
12:27:22 <TrueBrain> el_en: I think we can safely assume he did mean that .. don't be a jerk ;)
12:28:39 <el_en> TrueBrain: if someone systematically misspells a word, mentioning about it is not enough for being a jerk.
12:29:18 <TrueBrain> el_en: lol, I didn't know there was a written scale of when you are a jerk and not ;) :) :)
12:30:10 <el_en> something new to learn every day :)
12:30:20 <petern> yeah, like how to spell signal
12:33:04 <el_en> it's not spelled "singal" even in swedish.
12:33:46 <TrueBrain> we can't all be as briliant as you two
12:35:54 <Milloflex> found some strange begavior in a trin intersection where the train aren't moving even though it has a clear path. anyone would like to see the save game?
12:36:45 <insulfrog> yes please, what OTTD build is the savegame for and what GRFs used in it?
12:38:04 <Westie> (off topic) hand or red-indian smoke?
12:39:08 <Milloflex> insulfrog, ehm... i'm using the released stable version. maybe this has been fixed already i dont know. where can i see what GRF and build?
12:40:13 <insulfrog> if you're using the most stable build, its not a problem, send me the savegame anyway, what the heck :p
12:41:07 <Alberth> Milloflex: if it is an electric train, try upgrading the tracks to electrical. It should fail.
12:42:20 <insulfrog> also, make sure that up tracks are not connected the down tracks by mistake
12:43:19 <el_en> english only, no latin! ;)
12:44:02 <TrueBrain> that latin pig over there
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12:44:12 <Westie> If you want to do latin
12:44:33 <el_en> insulfrog_bbl: how important are you?
12:45:38 <frosch123> If you want to do latin ... :p
12:52:57 <Ammler> It seems not that easy with industries, like it was with the houses. (lower production <1930)
12:53:53 * jonty-comp is now running a cargodest+is2 server
12:54:02 <jonty-comp> it seems to work, surprisingly
12:54:06 <jonty-comp> although I haven't done much yet
12:54:47 <jonty-comp> I had to change the version string to norev000 though, because alain compiled the win32 binary like that and VC++ won't compile it at all
12:54:56 <jonty-comp> it compiles the dedicated fine in linux though
12:55:21 <frosch123> Ammler: if you do not care about the default placement rules (like sirkoz) you can override the industries without the need to define new graphics
12:57:30 <Ammler> I just like everything like it is, just reduced production, so the horses can handle it.
13:02:56 *** insulfrog_bbl is now known as insulfrog
13:03:21 <insulfrog> back from lunch is me :)
13:04:07 <TrueBrain> stupid python ... I can't seem to import a package with the same name as the file I am in now from site-package
13:05:33 <insulfrog> now, back to the savegame that you sent me to look at
13:15:49 <insulfrog> hmm, the jam on the savegame is caused by the trains breaking down and causing a tailback, what I would suuggest is that I would upgrade to quad track with frequent crossovers with PBS
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13:17:38 <insulfrog> also, there is no need for pre-signals to be 2-way
13:21:51 * insulfrog looks for the actual junction in question where the problem is located
13:23:35 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r16265 /trunk/src/network/ (core/address.cpp network_udp.cpp): -Fix (r16238): wrong format string for debug output
13:46:36 <insulfrog> Milloflex, I have been looking at the savegame you sent me and there are a couple of things that I like to point out.
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13:47:56 <insulfrog> for the current junctions, there is very little use of PBS, thus junctions are not very effective
13:49:14 <insulfrog> most of the traffic jams are caused by trains breaking down - those lines, you could quadruple with frequent crossovers
13:50:05 <insulfrog> also make sure that the lines are actually complete
13:50:27 <insulfrog> also, the pre-signals does not need to be 2-way
13:50:53 <insulfrog> (btw, which company colour are you?)
13:55:50 <insulfrog> I believe that is it :)
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14:07:30 <Milloflex> insulfrog, ehm.. "milloflex". not sure which color that was... green?
14:08:33 <insulfrog> path based signalling
14:08:57 <Milloflex> are you talking about the junctions at the train station, or at a junction in no-where?
14:09:11 <insulfrog> one of your signals is back-to-front
14:09:17 <Milloflex> i see... well i'm using the quite a lot i think? maybe you were looking at the wrong color?
14:09:42 <Milloflex> i saved the game at (what I though was) the problem area
14:10:30 <insulfrog> near flunningpool, one of the PBS signals is facing the wrong way
14:15:39 <insulfrog> also in the same area, the combo pre-signal at the entrance to flunningpool central should be a 2-way PBS signal (the PBS signal without the crossbeam)
14:17:37 <insulfrog> (hmm, what else is there?)
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14:22:46 <Milloflex> feels scary to use the 2-way PBS even though no trains can enter from the "behind" when there is a train at the station... :p
14:22:58 <Milloflex> so... 2-ways PBS on all the station i guess
14:23:11 <Brianett1> insulfrog? I have those on my layout.
14:23:36 <insulfrog> good aren't they :p
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14:24:58 <insulfrog> ahem anyway, 2 way PBS is the way to go, only use 1 way PBS when you want the train to only trains to go one way (like on ro-ro stations)
14:25:32 <Brianetta> I use one way PBS betwen PBS areas and automatically signalled lines
14:25:44 <insulfrog> also put PBS where you want trains to stop (such as entrance of junctions)
14:27:00 <Milloflex> sucks switching between them when building
14:27:05 <Brianetta> I've had good reason to do that in the past
14:27:26 <Booth> use a reverse PBS on exit to creat a track penalty
14:27:35 <Milloflex> i asked before, but i'll ask again - is there any hotkeys to switch between signals when building?
14:27:40 <Brianetta> basically, when the area after the junction is even more sensitive to blockage than the junction itself.
14:28:09 <Milloflex> ctrl and then what?
14:28:12 <Booth> and it cycles through all possible signal layouts
14:28:46 <Milloflex> would prefer not :p
14:29:37 <Milloflex> take time to move the coursor up there every time
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14:44:26 <insulfrog> I have not played openttd multiplayer for a while, I might have a go on a server at some point
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14:47:20 <insulfrog> I used to like playing on the 'fair play' and the 'openttdcoop' servers, I think I have played once or maybe twice on the 'Brianetta's standard' server
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15:11:29 <insulfrog> Has anyone managed to get onto Brianetta's Standard server's web site www.ppcis.org/standard/ ?
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15:15:46 <TrueBrain> where is Belugas if you need him :p
15:16:29 <el_en> z-MaTRiX: will you be Belugas tonight?
15:17:14 <z-MaTRiX> what do you mean by "Belugas"?
15:17:26 <Milloflex> insulfrog, yeah you should go play some multiplayer. ;-)
15:17:33 <frosch123> belugas is a species of wale
15:17:42 <TrueBrain> smells good when baked
15:17:44 <Milloflex> hm. is there a way to merge two stations that isn't next to each other?
15:18:03 <Milloflex> cause i've seen ppl place 1x1 stations ~4 tails away and they would stay connected i belive
15:18:07 <Rubidium> frosch123: belugas is plural ;)
15:18:32 <frosch123> ok, next try: beluga is a species of whale
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15:18:57 <frosch123> Milloflex: press ctrl while building the station
15:19:22 <insulfrog1> Has anyone managed to get onto Brianetta's Standard server's web site www.ppcis.org/standard/ ?
15:19:24 <frosch123> or build a big station and use the remove tool to destroy single tiles
15:19:44 <z-MaTRiX> [171629] el_en z-MaTRiX: will you be Belugas tonight? - why would i be a whale tonight?
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15:20:21 <petern> oh no, sirxavious is complaining at me, what shall i do!!!
15:20:31 <insulfrog> well, I can't manage to get on, as it always asks me to DL something
15:20:36 <frosch123> the matrix just got modified
15:21:28 <petern> insulfrog, download the grf pack from that website
15:22:09 <insulfrog> its not the GRF, its the web site
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15:22:34 <insulfrog> I can't access the www.ppcis.org/standard/ web site
15:22:44 <Rubidium> insulfrog: then slap your ISP's peering
15:23:17 <insulfrog> no, with internet explorer
15:23:28 <Forked> the website works just fine here
15:23:31 <petern> probably IE being stupid about xhtml then
15:23:40 <petern> which is only several years old
15:23:44 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: frosch * r16266 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_tile.hpp: -Documentation: [NoAI] Add details to AITile::(Raise|Lower)Tile wrt. modifiing multiple corners at once.
15:24:08 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: frosch * r16267 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_types.hpp: -Documentation: [NoAI] Explain how to deal with IDs of various objects.
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15:31:55 <Alberth> TB: somewhat less parking space would be preferable
15:32:04 <Milloflex> if you have 'enable signal gui' enabled and CTRL click when placing the first signal, it places a semaphore even though 'auto build semephore after year' is past. is this correct behavior?
15:32:06 <TrueBrain> not talking about what is exactly in the image :)
15:34:38 <Milloflex> (if you disable signal gui and CTRL click setting the first signal is places a electric signal)
15:35:32 <Alberth> hmm, weird. I'd expect consistent behavior.
15:37:55 <Alberth> it is consistent for me. you also have to disable the 'enable signal gui' advanced setting
15:37:56 <Milloflex> i hate semaphores. they should really not be the default ones if 'auto build semaphore after year' is past.
15:38:33 <Rubidium> building signals with CTRL pressed toggles the electric/semaphore state
15:39:31 <TrueBrain> why do people always feel the need to contact you via PMs?!
15:40:18 <TrueBrain> I don't like people feeling my privates
15:40:31 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: because they desperately want to be on your ignore list (or have something important to talk to you about, although that's less likely to happen)
15:42:09 <z-MaTRiX> people get dizzy from many lines being written on a channel, and trying to get less talk to the channel by opening PMs? As a side effect, developers PM-s will become crowded ;>
15:42:49 <TrueBrain> if you find IRC confusing, use the forum
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15:43:02 <TrueBrain> you can't randomly harrash developers because you have a question :)
15:43:12 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: frosch * r16268 /trunk/src/ (station_cmd.cpp town_cmd.cpp): -Fix (r9876): When callback 2E returns an amount of 0, do not transport 1 unit to the station.
15:43:31 <frosch123> TrueBrain was wondering about 'nice' numbers, wasn't he?
15:43:48 <TrueBrain> you find 16268 nice?
15:44:18 <Rubidium> why not callback 2B? ;)
15:44:25 <Milloflex> Alberth, my bad. i was dragging the mouse while placing signals. thus the "diffrent" behavior.
15:45:12 <TrueBrain> omg, how long can you go on about that url?
15:45:18 <TrueBrain> find Brianetta and ask him or something
15:45:31 <Sacro> insulfrog: what browser?
15:45:47 <insulfrog> Internet Explorer and AOL
15:46:44 <Sacro> IE shouldn't work on that website
15:46:53 <Sacro> as it uses application/xhtml+xml as it should
15:47:38 <insulfrog> but that is with IE7 but I have not tried it with IE8 yet
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15:48:56 <insulfrog> some may reccomend firefox but I'm not sure if it will conflict with AOL or not
15:49:09 <Sacro> nope, firefox would be fine
15:49:10 <TrueBrain> lol ... AOL shuts you down for using FireFox yes
15:50:04 <insulfrog> (I could always set up a restore point)
15:50:43 <Sacro> that'd make... no difference
15:52:13 <TrueBrain> so it doesn't use application/xhtml+xml 'as it should' ;) (ghehe :))
15:52:33 <Sacro> TrueBrain: the w3c also state that sending xhtml as text/html is wrong
15:52:58 <TrueBrain> but in this case is very explicit not allowed to send application/xhtml+xml when the agent doesn't say it supports it :)
15:53:09 <TrueBrain> so even if text/html is wrong, this is more wrong ;)
15:55:10 <Sacro> unless he uses the php header script that does it automagically
15:55:15 <Sacro> i've not checked his source
15:55:21 <TrueBrain> clearly it fails, so ;)
15:55:50 <TrueBrain> but I should remember this trick to disallow IE access :)
15:56:12 <Sacro> IE doesn't understand application/xhtml+xml
15:56:18 <Sacro> it will offer the site as a download
15:56:23 <Sacro> rather than rendering it
15:56:48 <TrueBrain> design choice, nothing wrong with that
15:57:07 <TrueBrain> (well, the lack of support is of course something different ;))
15:59:46 <TrueBrain> btw, in this case text/html is valid by w3c
16:00:25 <TrueBrain> (no namespaces are used :))
16:02:16 <TrueBrain> it basicly sums up what makes a page HTML compatible :p Ghehe :)
16:03:03 <Milloflex> "<TrueBrain> lol ... AOL shuts you down for using FireFox yes" ??
16:03:24 <TrueBrain> people really don't understand sarcasm ...
16:03:34 <Milloflex> didn't see the hole conversation
16:03:41 <Milloflex> was away eating and stuff
16:03:44 <TrueBrain> that line alone should be enough to detect that
16:03:55 <TrueBrain> and even if not: don't comment on it if you don't followed the conversation
16:04:21 <TrueBrain> still failing to detect sarcasm
16:04:46 <z-MaTRiX> bored developers can tell me what does the fast forward button do?
16:04:54 <TrueBrain> it fast forwards the game
16:04:56 <TrueBrain> oh no .. suprise! :)
16:04:58 <z-MaTRiX> it was not much faster than without it
16:05:43 <z-MaTRiX> maeby i have a low-end computer
16:05:48 <Milloflex> TrueBrain, "we can't all be as brilliant as you" ;-)
16:05:48 <TrueBrain> normally every tick has 30ms between them (if the game can keep up with it)
16:05:53 <Yexo> then a) you were using a debug build or b) your computer isn't fast enough
16:06:02 <TrueBrain> fastforward removes the sleep
16:06:12 <TrueBrain> (and so the games runs as fast as possible)
16:06:36 <z-MaTRiX> oh so it must be my computer's limit
16:06:52 <TrueBrain> well .. 3000 trains requires a bit of CPU :p
16:07:13 <z-MaTRiX> AI is so CPU intensive? :)
16:07:22 <TrueBrain> 15 AIs tend to do :p
16:07:56 <TrueBrain> disabling full animation is an other nice thing to do
16:08:12 <TrueBrain> even more in 32bpp :p
16:08:49 <z-MaTRiX> i guess AI should eat way more CPU than graphics am i right?
16:08:50 <TrueBrain> running pixel-animation is not that quick on modern computers :)
16:08:58 <TrueBrain> depends on a lot of things
16:09:11 <TrueBrain> when your AI is wrightAI, and you run 32bpp zoom-out on 3320x1080
16:09:26 <TrueBrain> than graphic takes more CPU
16:09:52 <TrueBrain> you can make everything slower than something else
16:09:56 <z-MaTRiX> this is reason there are no more zoom out levels?
16:10:21 <TrueBrain> (well, I am pretty sure :p)
16:10:31 <TrueBrain> tiles are 64x32 pixels
16:10:36 <TrueBrain> zoom-out is now 16x
16:10:42 <TrueBrain> that makes each tiles 4x2
16:10:49 <TrueBrain> I don't think we can draw tiles anymore if you zoom out any more :)
16:11:08 <TrueBrain> (or was 8x max zoom-out? I only remember I once made 16x :p)
16:12:07 <TrueBrain> 8x is the current max
16:12:11 <TrueBrain> so each tiles is just 8x4
16:12:15 <TrueBrain> like ... REALLY small :)
16:12:41 <z-MaTRiX> anyway it would be a map-like look
16:12:51 <TrueBrain> OpenTTD limits are rarely there because of the CPU
16:12:59 <TrueBrain> for that you have the minimap ;)
16:13:19 <frosch123> which also would need some zoom :p
16:13:29 <TrueBrain> zoomable minimap would be nice :)
16:13:46 <TrueBrain> minimap still needs a complete rewrite :) Nasty piece of code .....
16:13:58 <TrueBrain> one of the few places I never understood ... at all ....
16:14:00 <z-MaTRiX> just thought about a mini magnifier around mouse cursor when zoomed out full extent
16:14:52 <z-MaTRiX> so more accurate autoplacing could be done in a long railroad line
16:15:22 <Yexo> somebody already made a patch for that recetly
16:16:39 <petern> people still use AOL? haha
16:17:17 <z-MaTRiX> tell you worse, people still use msn!
16:17:35 <z-MaTRiX> and they click on the password stealing links, give pass
16:17:36 <el_en> msn, the network superior to internet?
16:19:30 <TrueBrain> z-MaTRiX: could you follow the conversation?! :) :)
16:21:14 <Westie> z-Matrix: That sucks, all of my friends have got that 'Westie, IS THAT YOU? LOLOLOOLOL' ettc.
16:22:07 <z-MaTRiX> yep, how much cooler would it be if it would say "get linux, play OpenTTD!"
16:22:49 <petern> bootable openttd cd :D
16:25:21 <z-MaTRiX> btw how can it be done to have greater resolution with mouse pointing if using a viewport?
16:27:54 <z-MaTRiX> was thinking about mouse moves "zoomed out", so relative in "zoomed in area" mouse would move n-times fast
16:29:25 <yorick> z-MaTRiX: but with the zoomed in viewport, you can see where you're pointing
16:29:58 <z-MaTRiX> yes it's a cool feature
17:07:10 *** SHRIKEE has joined #openttd
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17:27:38 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r16269 /trunk/src/ (21 files in 6 dirs):
17:27:38 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Codechange: use gcc's ability to check parameters sent to printf-like functions
17:27:38 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Fix: wrong number of parameters or wrong parameter types sent to printf-like functions at several places
17:33:15 *** tkjacobsen has joined #openttd
17:36:02 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
17:44:07 *** batti5 is now known as batti5_
18:02:45 *** batti5 is now known as batti5_
18:04:17 <yorick> any reason why you can only ban 25 ips and no more?
18:04:30 *** batti5_ is now known as batti5
18:04:47 <TrueBrain> suggestion: ban 0.0.0.0/0
18:05:05 <yorick> then where would I get my players
18:05:24 <TrueBrain> if you want to ban 25 IPs or more, I think you don't want any either way
18:06:06 <SmatZ> why it shouldn't be 25?
18:06:13 <SmatZ> would 24 be better or what?
18:06:16 <yorick> because I want to ban more people than 25
18:08:38 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
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18:09:30 *** batti5_ is now known as batti5
18:10:20 *** batti5 is now known as batti5_
18:11:39 * yorick inspects the posibility of backporting r15931 to 0.7
18:18:21 <Prof_Frink> Sacro: Human slaves! In an insect nation!
18:18:32 <Sacro> Prof_Frink: did you see it?
18:18:58 <Prof_Frink> Saw the end of it.
18:21:05 <Prof_Frink> I shall watch it after the GP.
18:21:20 * Prof_Frink has spent a nice day on the crag
18:21:38 *** Dred_furst has joined #openttd
18:22:47 <Prof_Frink> What, have Jill or Stella been here?
18:23:07 <Sacro> STELLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
18:23:16 * Sacro watnts to watch s treetcar named desire
18:25:07 <SmatZ> yorick: if you want over 25 bans in 0.7, increase some magic constant
18:30:08 * petern plays with... yet another synth
18:34:19 <Hirundo> Bug report: In the news ticker, strings are truncated too early.
18:35:24 <SmatZ> wasn't that changed/fixed few weeks ago?
18:38:10 <Hirundo> It's in IS development build, which was last synced at....
18:38:44 <Rubidium> that doesn't mean IS doesn't introduce the bug
18:49:10 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r16270 /extra/masterserver_updater/src/shared/ (debug.h stdafx.h): [MSU] -Fix: compile failures due to updates in trunk
18:50:45 <petern> TrueBrain, one can never have enough synths
18:50:54 <petern> although... mine are all software :s
18:52:03 <TrueBrain> petern: I have a 'real' one .. that is .. keyboard with midi output :p
18:52:11 <TrueBrain> just no midi input in my computer .. hmm .. so useless :p
18:55:31 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r16271 /trunk/bin/ai/regression/regression.txt: -Fix (r16264) [NoAI]: make regression failed
18:58:17 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
18:58:47 <petern> well, keyboard with midi output to pc with software synth :D
18:58:53 <petern> although the midi is over usb
18:59:04 <petern> which, of course, works perfectly well in linux but nothing else
18:59:05 <orava> Hey, is cargodist just "better" version of cargodest?
18:59:13 <petern> no, it's a 'different' version
18:59:19 <TrueBrain> midi over usb .. that is a nice idea
18:59:39 <petern> just this keyboard is awkward, heh
18:59:43 <petern> it's part of the usb audio stuff
18:59:57 <petern> you can of course get usb to midi adapters
19:00:01 <orava> petern: but those 2 main point is same, to have destinations to gargo?
19:00:46 <TrueBrain> guess I need an adapter here ;)
19:05:53 <TrueBrain> 30 euros .. pfff ...
19:10:14 <petern> can be cheaper than that
19:12:28 <TrueBrain> is a bit hard to do in a way you can reuse it :p
19:12:55 <TrueBrain> reuse is not the word .. euh .. robust
19:13:39 <glx> I built an usb "adapter" for my sega genesis pads
19:15:05 <TrueBrain> I once built a XLR controller via USB
19:15:10 <TrueBrain> worked for like ... 3 months :p
19:15:15 <TrueBrain> then I dropped it .. didn't survive :p
19:15:30 *** Hirundo_ has joined #openttd
19:15:33 <glx> it works better than the parallel port adapter (for the same pads) I used before
19:17:05 <glx> anyway my usb adpater doesn't look bad externally (but don't open the box ;) )
19:18:15 <glx> parallel port was clean too (all inside the db25 case)
19:24:00 *** [com]buster has joined #openttd
19:25:13 *** Polygon has joined #openttd
19:27:18 <z-MaTRiX> writing music for OTTD ?
19:27:35 <FR^2> Hmm. Cool, that version 0.7 :)
19:28:14 <FR^2> Maybe I'll write an AI myself copying my strange style of playing *g*
19:28:32 <Xaroth> 0.8 isn't released yet.
19:29:01 <z-MaTRiX> no don't do it, it would cause a paradoxon
19:29:04 <Alberth> 0.8 jumps away into the free air
19:30:24 <TrueBrain> oh noes, a dihedral
19:30:28 * FR^2 patches the sources to show version "0.9.0"
19:30:32 <FR^2> Ha, mine is even better!
19:30:54 * TrueBrain commits a patch which will kill FR^2's computer
19:31:26 <Alberth> FR^2: changelog of 0.9.0 seems a bit short. It needs some more hacking.
19:31:41 <FR^2> Alberth: Hm. How about random indentation of the sourcecode?
19:31:54 <Alberth> that is not changelog worthy
19:32:01 <TrueBrain> how does that effect a changelog?
19:32:18 <FR^2> And then simply taking the log of the vcs ;)
19:32:20 <Alberth> it garbles the log :p
19:32:44 <TrueBrain> I ahven't played my keyboard in ages ....
19:33:10 * z-MaTRiX writes OpenTTD in ASM and optimizes for speed, then gives version 1.0
19:33:29 <TrueBrain> why not directly in C#?
19:33:31 <FR^2> Hmm. Or how about running an obfuscator over the sources, commit and then try to find suitable variable and filenames etc? *eg*
19:33:43 <TrueBrain> or the worst suggestion ever: in java
19:34:02 <TrueBrain> FR^2: we already have that; we call it TTD
19:34:04 <FR^2> Oh, someone knows what he's talking about, heh?
19:34:26 <FR^2> Well, anyway, enough kidding. I'll spare you more of my flat jokes. Good night everyone.
19:35:10 <frosch123> you should do more traditional things, like: as ottd can execute squirrel you should of course rewrite ottd in squirrel
19:35:47 <TrueBrain> frosch123: and then make squirrel compile in squirrel, bootstrap it, and tada! :)
19:36:48 <Rubidium> writing it in NewGRF would be much better! :)
19:36:57 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: now that is just silly
19:36:57 * frosch123 wonders whether FR^2 always used that leave message of whether he choosed it matching to the discussion
19:38:32 <frosch123> TrueBrain: it is similiar to those things which are usually said about sirxavius in this channel
19:38:43 <frosch123> stop talking, do something
19:39:10 <z-MaTRiX> have you been thinking about including an mp3 player in game?
19:40:15 <frosch123> TrueBrain: the ottd+500 gui
19:40:51 <frosch123> where 500 means the number of topics opened or so
19:41:01 <TrueBrain> Well, I still don't find it that odd that he tries to motivate others to do the job .. je need those people too ;) still amazing he got this far with his ideas and shit
19:41:55 <frosch123> judging by the "old topic" he spent two years writing those stuff down. so yes, not everyone could do that.
19:42:04 <TrueBrain> most give up after N days :)
19:42:11 <TrueBrain> well .. most sane people ;)
19:42:22 <TrueBrain> but .. without insane people, the world could not survive :)
19:42:41 <z-MaTRiX> but it is fun asking same things as N people does daily :)
19:42:42 <Rubidium> without insane people there are no sane people
19:42:51 <TrueBrain> "Never tell a young person that something cannot be done. God may have been waiting for centuries for somebody ignorant enough of the impossibility to do that thing." --Dr. J.A. Holmes
19:44:43 <TrueBrain> my age overflowed twice already
19:45:10 <TrueBrain> I should be more nerdy, and start using three times
19:45:39 <frosch123> do you measure it with one bcd digit?
19:45:48 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: you shouldn't count your age with your fingers! ;)
19:46:00 <TrueBrain> frosch123: first one, yes .. considered it stupid, so started to use 4 bits :p
19:46:53 <frosch123> oh noes, now he will again sit in the corner for one week
19:47:13 <TrueBrain> he, don't judge a person for him fancying a corner ;)
19:47:38 *** PeteT was kicked by DorpsGek (Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.)
19:47:59 <TrueBrain> I only read about this way of kicking
19:48:02 <TrueBrain> never seen it in action
19:48:07 * TrueBrain feels all warm and fuzzy now :)
19:49:16 *** PeteT was kicked by DorpsGek (Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.)
19:51:19 <welshdragon> you're a smart one
19:51:27 <PeteT> You have been kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek (Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.)
19:51:49 <frosch123> try with reading what it says
19:51:53 <glx> because we don't have this command :)
19:52:01 <Alberth> too many people typing wrong commands
19:53:27 *** Pikka was kicked by DorpsGek (Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.)
19:53:39 <Xaroth> donkey, stone, thrice?
19:54:19 * planetmaker wonders what people consider entertainment
19:54:42 <PeteT> planet maker wonders what people consider entertainment
19:54:53 <PeteT> do you just add a "*" to the front?
19:55:09 <Xaroth> planetmaker: That, most likely.
19:55:31 <yorick> * doesn't wonder how people do this
19:55:46 <Xaroth> yorick fails once again :P
19:55:47 <planetmaker> hehe, Xaroth obviously :)
19:55:59 <yorick> Xaroth: if I want to fail, and fail, do I still fail?
19:56:04 <planetmaker> PeteT: I type "/me sais something fancy"
19:56:18 <Xaroth> yep, you succeed at your attempt to fail, as such, you fail at failing because you succeeded
19:56:40 *** You was kicked by DorpsGek (granted)
19:57:07 <SmatZ> *** You has been kicked from the channel by DorpsGek <=== grammar fail
19:57:19 <TrueBrain> @kban We 600 you too
19:57:19 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +b *!~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl
19:57:20 *** We was kicked by DorpsGek (you too)
19:57:39 <planetmaker> self fulfilling prophecy.
19:57:51 <PeteT> what do we talk about in openttd irc?
19:58:03 <TrueBrain> 10 fun ways to kick a person PeteT
19:58:06 <planetmaker> hm.... let me guess.
19:58:45 <Xaroth> general development, and the meaning of life
19:58:47 <PeteT> new ideas for future versions?
19:58:58 <SmatZ> [21:58:48] <PeteT> new ideas for future versions? <=== please no!
19:59:04 <TrueBrain> that is a no-can-do topic here
19:59:37 <planetmaker> PeteT: it's preferred to come up with solutions instead of suggestions :)
19:59:45 <frosch123> PeteT: do not talk about realism or snow on monday to friday 8 am to 5 pm (quebec time)
19:59:48 <PeteT> what command do i use for changing my name?
20:00:15 <planetmaker> frosch123: but his logs are running
20:00:21 <TrueBrain> bad SmatZ, bad bad bad SmatZ :)
20:00:37 <PeteT> i press enter and it just goes away
20:00:54 <TrueBrain> maybe .. just maybe .. because that name is already in use?
20:00:57 <TrueBrain> check your status window
20:01:25 <PeteT> im using it in another channel, does that make it not work?
20:01:37 <TrueBrain> we have a real newbie
20:01:50 <TrueBrain> PeteT: you can't have 2 nicknames in 2 channels on the same network :)
20:02:23 <_ln> PeteT: /quit and /exit were fighting. which one of them won?
20:02:24 <PeteT> i just got this IRC client today
20:05:24 <TrueBrain> 28 days to download a serie ...
20:06:16 <planetmaker> PeteT: I guess you're connected to this network twice.
20:06:20 <Xaroth> 7 days to download a new film :/
20:06:43 <planetmaker> that is, if you're the PeterT from #openttdcoop
20:07:16 <PeteT> i cant connect to 2 different servers on the same network, go it
20:07:19 *** DorpsGek sets mode: -b *!~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl
20:08:42 <planetmaker> you could close this client (for #openttd) and type in the chat window of #openttdcoop just "/join #openttd"
20:08:42 <planetmaker> PeteT: you can... but from the same client :)
20:08:42 <planetmaker> not different ones
20:09:51 <TrueBrain> should that be scary?
20:09:57 <TrueBrain> "Search engine overloaded, please try again in a few seconds"
20:10:59 <Eddi|zuHause> they sabotage the server ;)
20:11:08 <TrueBrain> would be a very good action btw
20:11:16 <TrueBrain> to use a botnet to hammer their search engine
20:11:31 <PeterT> what other openttd related servers are there?
20:11:47 <Eddi|zuHause> where is something openttd related?
20:11:53 <TrueBrain> that question is so weird, that I don't even have any fun replies :(
20:12:07 <TrueBrain> well, fun for me of course
20:13:27 <frosch123> PeterT: try #tycoon and you will never ask for more channels with more spam
20:14:10 <Xaroth> frosch123: (1-5)on(1-5) on quakenet are worse.
20:14:13 <TrueBrain> argh, I hate it I hate it I hate it when things are outside of scope of my usenet retention :(
20:15:22 <PeterT> what does it mean when a green dot is next to someone's name?
20:15:44 <frosch123> that depends on your client :)
20:15:54 <SmatZ> ask xchat FAQ/manual...
20:16:20 <frosch123> PeterT: then it mean to NOT highlight those people, never!
20:16:27 <SmatZ> PeterT: people with extra power
20:16:42 <SmatZ> frosch123: "what is highlight" :)
20:20:51 <z-MaTRiX> TrueBrain, suggest GHC for complex things
20:23:36 *** k20forlif has joined #openttd
20:24:53 *** k20forlif has left #openttd
20:26:12 <TrueBrain> Gravity Height Collider?
20:31:02 * petern considers reading sirxavius' pm
20:38:10 <Brianetta> [16:51] <TrueBrain> btw, Sacro, it is a flaw of the website.
20:38:28 <Brianetta> It is not a flaw of the web site. The web site follows all guidelines, and is an XHTML web site.
20:38:38 <TrueBrain> Brianetta: check the links surrounding that conversation
20:38:41 <Brianetta> It only supports XHTML user agents, not HTML.
20:38:44 <TrueBrain> it clearly states the website is wrong here :)
20:38:56 <Brianetta> Not in the slightest.
20:38:59 <TrueBrain> I hate to repeat myself, so I won't :)
20:39:44 <Brianetta> I'm not sure what you could say to change my opinion anyway. It isn't a HTML web site, period.
20:39:48 <PeterT> always randomnly disconnects
20:39:53 <TrueBrain> Brianetta: I call it w3c :)
20:40:06 *** oskari89 has joined #openttd
20:40:15 <TrueBrain> if that isn't a good enough argument, there is no need to argument at all :)
20:41:00 <oskari89> Thought about those waypoints.
20:41:26 <Brianetta> Your argument hinges on W3C's "should" clause
20:41:42 <Brianetta> That document isn't available as HTML.
20:41:44 <TrueBrain> Brianetta: no, w3c is VERY clear in the use of application/xhtml+xml
20:41:52 <Brianetta> Any more than my banner is available as a JPEG.
20:41:54 <TrueBrain> it is NOT allowed if the agent doesn't EXPLICITly tells you to use it
20:42:01 <oskari89> Could waypoint be used as normal level crossing (modified from code) so it could be used w/ different graphics.
20:42:13 <Brianetta> "The 'application/xhtml+xml' media type [RFC3236] is the primary media type for XHTML Family documents. 'application/xhtml+xml' should be used for serving XHTML documents to XHTML user agents (agents that explicitly indicate they support this media type)." -- W3C
20:42:21 <Brianetta> Not the word, "should"
20:42:28 <TrueBrain> "(agents that explicitly indicate they support this media type)"
20:42:31 <TrueBrain> how more clear should it be?
20:42:46 <Brianetta> Mandatories are indicated by the word "must"
20:42:47 <TrueBrain> exactly; and you use it
20:43:00 <Fogel> i've got a question - how to disable AI doing any action?
20:43:05 <TrueBrain> so you are not following w3c guidelines here :)
20:43:11 <Fogel> but with AI players present
20:43:12 <Brianetta> "This media type must be used when writing documents using XHTML Family document types that add elements and attributes from foreign namespaces, such as XHTML+MathML"
20:43:15 <Brianetta> THere, I am following the MUST clause
20:43:21 <Yexo> Fogel: why do you want to do that?
20:43:36 <TrueBrain> then complain to w3c they have contradictories in their description
20:43:40 <Yexo> oskari89: of course that's possible by modifying the code, but do you really want that?
20:43:49 <Brianetta> Must overrides should, in all cases.
20:43:51 <Yexo> or do you just want different graphics for level crossings?
20:43:57 <Brianetta> I have no complaint.
20:43:57 <TrueBrain> "(agents that explicitly indicate they support this media type)" <- I don't read a should
20:44:02 <TrueBrain> and I tihnk that overrules any statement
20:44:08 <Brianetta> It's earlier int he sentence
20:44:16 <Brianetta> I quoted the complete sentence earlier
20:44:18 <TrueBrain> (the word 'explicitly' is more then a 'must')
20:44:20 <Fogel> i want co create sth like a real world simulation - for that i need few companies, but don't want AI to control them
20:44:35 <oskari89> I want to use several level crossing types. Like unguarded/ guarded with barriers/ led-warning light
20:44:36 <PeterT> does build ottd work on vista?
20:44:37 <TrueBrain> oh .. why do I bother .. like I care your website is not viewable by IE ..
20:44:42 <Yexo> Fogel: easiest is to create an AI that does nothing
20:44:54 <Yexo> follow the example on the wiki and remove all code from the Start function
20:44:55 <Brianetta> explicitly is a descriptive clause, not an instruction
20:45:06 <Sacro> TrueBrain: why would anyone care about IE users
20:45:11 <Yexo> PeterT: BuildOTTD does't work at all at this moment
20:45:14 <TrueBrain> Sacro: any sane person :)
20:45:15 <Brianetta> It's an XHTML document. Get an XHTML client.
20:45:25 <Yexo> only the installation works for getting an mingw install
20:45:28 <Brianetta> I don't give a fig which XHTML client the users use.
20:45:31 <TrueBrain> Sacro: it is like ignoring Windows; it would be nice, but you should never do it :)
20:45:36 <PeterT> whats a patching program for noobs?
20:46:09 <oskari89> Yexo: and level crossings could be used as waypoints too. :)
20:46:11 <Yexo> using tortoisesvn + mingw / visual studio
20:46:37 <Brianetta> My site's compatibel with every XHTML client there is.
20:46:44 <PeterT> i looked at the wiki, and compiling on mingw seems really complicated
20:46:49 * SpComb writes an XHTML client that isn't
20:46:56 <Brianetta> SpComb: It wouldn't be one.
20:47:07 <SpComb> how many XHTML clients are there then?
20:47:10 <Yexo> PeterT: that's the easiest it gets, but following the steps there isn't too hard
20:47:22 <Brianetta> Unlike HTML, XHTML support isn't shades of grey.
20:47:34 <Brianetta> SpComb: Firefox is one.
20:47:38 <PeterT> ill try that, but buildottd doesnt even work on XP?
20:47:54 <Yexo> buildottd doesn't work at all unless somebody fixes it
20:48:14 <Fogel> Yexo: class MyNewAI extends AIController << MyNewAI inherits from AIController?
20:48:27 <PeterT> yeah, ok. i tried running it in compatibility mode, but nothing...
20:49:36 <PeterT> i dont see the step for inserting the patch file....
20:49:38 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd
20:49:46 <PeterT> is mingw for .patch files?
20:50:14 <oskari89> Yexo: Is level crossing hard-coded on exe or something else?
20:50:31 <Yexo> oskari89: you can replace the graphics with a newgrf file
20:50:52 <Yexo> PeterT: yes, but try to compile without applying a patch first
20:51:14 <PeterT> then when i compile how do i add it?
20:51:20 <PeterT> are there steps for that too?
20:51:46 <Yexo> tortoisesvn can also apply svn patches for you
20:52:14 <PeterT> man, patching is sorta a pain in the ass
20:52:35 <oskari89> Yexo: But can you use three or four types of level crossings with newgrf without using waypoints?
20:52:36 <TrueBrain> only when you need to get used to it :)
20:52:45 <PeterT> where are these codes like "patch -p0 -i file.diff" entered?
20:52:55 <Yexo> PeterT: in the mingw shell
20:53:20 <PeterT> and that willl patch, along with tortoise
20:53:38 <Fogel> Yexo: and do you know where should i put those files? there is only solution for windows, on linux i have files in few places...
20:53:45 <Yexo> that will patch the source, but that means you need to download the source first
20:53:49 <oskari89> Yexo: How difficult is it to add level crossing option to waypoint?
20:54:10 <Yexo> oskari89: try it yourself, I have no idea
20:54:15 <PeterT> and compiling on mingw is downloading the source
20:54:25 <PeterT> btw, sorry, first time trying to patch
20:54:37 <Yexo> PeterT: that's why I told you to try compiling without any patch first
20:54:54 <Yexo> Fogel: in ~/.openttd/ai/<yourai>/
20:55:03 <PeterT> ok, 1. compile 2. patch with tortoise
20:55:06 <Yexo> or in install_dir/ai/<yourai>/
20:55:24 <Yexo> PeterT: yes, but add "3. recompile the patches source"
20:55:52 <PeterT> be back when i fail at patching
20:55:58 <Yexo> step 1 (compile) is to make sure you can compile without problems
20:56:08 <Yexo> if that works ok, applying a patch and compiling with that patch is very easy
20:56:33 <PeterT> after the test compile, you apply the patch to that?
20:56:41 <Yexo> no, you apply the patch to the source
20:57:04 <PeterT> let me test compile first
20:57:15 <Yexo> compiling before applying the patch is not needed, but is nice to know so when you run into problems later, you know it's not a problem of your installation, but of the patch
20:58:10 <Yexo> oskari89: does your level crossing have to behave as a level crossing, or only look like one?
21:05:07 <PeterT> when im installing mingw, it asks me what kind of install i want, minimal, full, or custom, which one?
21:07:18 <PeterT> Yexo: when im installing mingw, it asks me what kind of install i want, minimal, full, or custom, which one?
21:07:35 <Yexo> # On the install, select Candidate, then select the Minimal install plus the g++ compiler. <- from the wiki
21:08:19 <glx> use buildottd installer ;)
21:09:01 <PeterT> especially not on vista
21:09:04 <Yexo> just buildottd itself not
21:09:24 <glx> and it's the same on XP :)
21:09:33 <oskari89> Yexo: Behave as level crossing.
21:09:53 <glx> but you'll get a ready to use mingw install
21:11:25 <PeterT> is "wget-1.9.1", "zlib-1.2.3", and "libpng-1.2.8 " all downloded by mingw?
21:11:27 *** Nite_Owl has joined #openttd
21:12:35 <Yexo> PeterT: I don't think so
21:13:41 <PeterT> Yexo: so i download that and install that too?
21:13:51 <Yexo> yes, just follow the instructions
21:13:55 <Yexo> and try to do that yourself
21:14:06 <TrueBrain> but he likes it when you hold his hand daddy
21:14:07 <Yexo> ask questions when something doesn't work, but dno't ask everything
21:14:31 <PeterT> TrueBrain: way to make fun of the retard
21:14:51 <TrueBrain> PeterT: it was just a too easy comment :)
21:14:58 <TrueBrain> I am getting medicine for it ;)
21:15:40 <Eddi|zuHause> wow, there's a load of crap being spoken here all day...
21:16:12 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: lol .. that suprises you .. how?
21:16:53 <Eddi|zuHause> no surprise... i just wanted to have explicitly pointed it out, in case people were too afraid to do it :p
21:17:09 <TrueBrain> does it make you feel more alive? :)
21:18:22 *** insulfrog has joined #openttd
21:20:20 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: so you have anything fun to share? :)
21:20:52 <Eddi|zuHause> nothing that translates over the internet...
21:21:03 <PeterT> this wasnt in the wiki: if its says "oh joy, you dont have make.exe. keep it that way" is this a joke or something?
21:21:19 <PeterT> or do i need to get make.exe and re-install
21:21:37 <Eddi|zuHause> what's so difficult to understand in "keep it that way"?
21:22:20 <Yexo> PeterT: at which step do you get that message?
21:22:22 <TrueBrain> PeterT: one golden tip, and I don't mean this in any bad way: if you want to develop for OpenTTD, dare to try things. See how far you can go. You can always reinstall at any later point :)
21:22:43 <PeterT> i got that after inserting the mingw installation path
21:22:57 <PeterT> into that command line when you install MSYS
21:23:06 <Yexo> and take TrueBrains advice
21:23:57 <PeterT> TrueBrain: Thanks. i go by the saying "measure twice. cut once"
21:24:12 <TrueBrain> yeah, but in here that translates: oh, that annoying user again ;)
21:24:41 <TrueBrain> (you have to understand there are many people who try this every month .. helping each one of them step by step would not really allow any developer to do any real developing ;))
21:25:01 *** Klanticus has joined #openttd
21:25:02 <Nite_Owl> with computers the truism is: screw it up and then figure out how to fix it
21:25:16 <frosch123> TrueBrain: what are you currently developing? :p
21:25:29 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I was nothing talking about myself ;) I was talking about ... others .... :)
21:25:32 <PeterT> unfortunately, ive done that. i got a virus and it screwed my comp and it took 3 weeks to fix
21:25:40 <TrueBrain> hmm .. doh .. wrong answer .. the correct one was: WT3!!!
21:25:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i thought it was "is it running? don't touch the damn thing!"
21:26:02 <planetmaker> hahah @ TrueBrain :)
21:26:42 <TrueBrain> PeterT: install a anti-virus ;)
21:26:59 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16272 /branches/0.7/ (12 files in 4 dirs):
21:26:59 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: [0.7] -Backport from trunk:
21:26:59 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NoAI] Check slopes passed to the API better for validity (r16264, r16262)
21:26:59 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NewGRF] Interpret setting bridge property 08 to 0 as always available (r16263)
21:26:59 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: - Add: [NoAI] AIController::GetVersion, this returns the version of OpenTTD in the same way as for NewGRFs (r16253)
21:27:01 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: - Add: [NoAI] AIAirport::GetPrice, returning the building cost of an airport (r16252)
21:27:03 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NoAI] Enable parameter checking for AIController::* functions again (r16249)
21:27:10 <PeterT> OH. IF ONLY I HAD THOUGHT OF THAT. :P
21:27:36 <PeterT> mcafee, avg, spysweeper, and spyzooka
21:27:43 <Eddi|zuHause> you do realize that they only block each other?
21:28:17 <PeterT> i usually just use spysweeper
21:28:52 <Nite_Owl> is that not just for spyware
21:29:20 <frosch123> hmm, if you check 3 pointers for not being NULL, the fourth is NULL
21:29:48 <TrueBrain> hmm .. who has a way in the Apple cooperation? I want a OSX Server donated :p
21:30:48 <PeterT> ok, im on "compiling wget" step
21:31:46 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: I want that, too :)
21:32:09 <Yexo> PeterT: those tools where originally coded for some unix flavour, and ported to mingw
21:32:38 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: I tried emailing apple .. never got a reply ...
21:32:44 <TrueBrain> only after 2 months that they forwarded it to an other department
21:33:04 <Nite_Owl> get pictures of Apple executives in bed with male midgets
21:33:12 <planetmaker> hm... too sad they not even can be arsed to reply...
21:34:08 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16273 /branches/0.7/src/ (25 files in 7 dirs):
21:34:08 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: [0.7] -Backport from trunk:
21:34:08 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: - Fix: Wrong number of parameters or wrong parameter types sent to printf-like functions at several places (r16269)
21:34:08 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NewGRF] When callback 2E returns an amount of 0, do not transport 1 unit to the station (r16268)
21:34:08 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NoAI] Various documentation omissions with respect to IDs of various objects and corners for AITile::(Raise|Lower)Tile (r16267,r16266)
21:34:27 <Nite_Owl> chloroform is the key
21:35:08 * planetmaker smells a 0.7.1 in the pipe
21:35:38 <Nite_Owl> of course if they were married Apple executives then so much the better
21:35:53 <PeterT> when it says "Make sure you are in the same directory where you placed the file" does that mean the exe is the same directory?
21:36:04 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: it is always in the pipe :p
21:36:29 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: is a 0.1.3 also still in the pipe? ;)
21:36:43 <TrueBrain> I meant the next version
21:37:21 <planetmaker> pah. twat is not a nice word :(
21:42:08 <PeterT> i placed the wget-1.9.1-mingwPORT.tar.bz2 into "home" started msys, and entered the first line of command, and it says "cannot open, no such file of directory"
21:42:38 <Yexo> type "pwd" and copy the result here
21:43:46 <Yexo> when you type "ls", do you see the tar file?
21:44:24 <PeterT> i placed it into the "home" directory, along with a folder named "Peter"
21:44:46 <Yexo> ah, in unix terms, you home directory is "/home/Peter"
21:45:00 <Yexo> so you need to place the tar *in* the Peter dir, not next to it
21:45:30 <PeterT> inside this "Peter" folder
21:46:07 <PeterT> i put it in, entered the same command, and it says the same thing
21:46:22 <Yexo> does "ls" show the tar file now?
21:46:30 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: sorry, I take that word back :)
21:47:03 <PeterT> but the name is "wget-1.9.1-mingwPORT.tar.bz2.bz2"
21:47:07 <planetmaker> :) /me hugs TrueBrain
21:47:25 <glx> too many .bz2 in the file name
21:47:27 <PeterT> renamed it and it works
21:47:34 <PeterT> thanks for bearing with me
21:47:53 <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: that happens to windows people who don't enable showing of file extensions
21:48:18 <Eddi|zuHause> it's the same kind of people who click on "spam.png.exe" files
21:49:16 <Nite_Owl> So who caught the first case of the sexually transmitted disease 'Space Crabs' Capt. Jonathan Archer or Capt. James T. Kirk?
21:49:22 <PeterT> i do i enable the showing of extentions on vista?
21:49:41 <TrueBrain> Under: Hide known extensions
21:49:45 <TrueBrain> who would have guessed ;)
21:49:53 <TrueBrain> come on PeterT, a bit self-thinking is allowed :)
21:50:50 <PeterT> and of course its not there.... :)
21:51:28 <TrueBrain> in any explorer window, alt -> extra -> options, the tab with MANY squares in it ... and under Hide Known Extensions, with a bit more talk around those words
21:52:09 <TrueBrain> (depending on your windows 'extra' can be 'tools' and 'options' can be 'folder options'
21:52:18 <TrueBrain> and that all without having a windows system in front of me :p
21:52:35 <TrueBrain> "Hide extensions for known file types"
21:52:36 <Nite_Owl> not a Star Trek crowd
21:52:39 <TrueBrain> is the english variant
21:52:44 <TrueBrain> Nite_Owl: no, jus tnot interested :p
21:53:30 <Nite_Owl> it was a rhetorical question anyway - humor fail
21:54:20 <PeterT> what language do you speak yexo, so i can translate?
21:54:33 <Yexo> TrueBrain already translated it for you :)
21:54:41 <Yexo> but if you still want to know, it's Dutch
21:54:52 <TrueBrain> hit the big SEARCH button
21:55:08 <Nite_Owl> what version of Windows
21:55:19 <PeterT> maybe thats where you guys forgot
21:55:25 <PeterT> it wasnt where you said it was
21:55:38 <PeterT> "organize" ----> "folder options"
21:55:51 <TrueBrain> what language do you use?
21:55:57 <Nite_Owl> they moved a lot of stuff around in Vista
21:56:08 <TrueBrain> vista is not a language
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21:56:22 <PeterT> and vista has it different
21:56:26 <TrueBrain> but okay, here again the phrase holds: try stuff yourself! :)
21:56:36 <TrueBrain> else compiling OpenTTD will be very useless anyway ;)
21:57:29 <PeterT> god i hope this doesnt take all night :(
21:57:43 <TrueBrain> on your speed? I am afraid so my friend :)
21:57:56 <TrueBrain> an advanced user even needs a good hour :)
21:57:59 <PeterT> duhhh doy duhhh duhh wut?
21:59:15 <Xaroth> compiling stuff takes time
21:59:27 <TrueBrain> compiling stuff to compile even longer ;)
21:59:33 <Xaroth> if every idiot could do it the internet would be filled with viruse... er... nevermind
21:59:41 <PeterT> so when i compile WITH the patch, can i join servers?
21:59:42 <Xaroth> every idiot -can- do it, it just takes time
21:59:55 <Yexo> PeterT: only servers that are compiled with the same patch
21:59:57 <Xaroth> PeterT: depends on what you patch, most likely, no.
22:00:28 <PeterT> whatever, i guess i'll be playing by myself
22:00:54 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: script kiddies :)
22:01:09 <Xaroth> TrueBrain: still mindless idiots :P
22:01:22 <TrueBrain> and in our country, they get jobs when caught breaking in!
22:01:41 <TrueBrain> a script kiddy broke into some gov server thingy
22:01:45 <Xaroth> damn i should have continued doing that :/
22:01:51 <TrueBrain> got a job there as 'advisor'
22:01:53 <PeterT> Xaroth: BY myself, not WITH myself
22:02:03 <TrueBrain> like he knew ANYTHING about it ... he just downloaded something from the web and used it
22:02:14 <Xaroth> TrueBrain: most likely :P
22:02:43 <TrueBrain> no, I know for sure
22:03:13 <PeterT> where are you guys from?
22:03:15 <Xaroth> ah fucknuts, gotta trip to evo tomorrow again, grr
22:03:36 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: what broke this time? :)
22:03:59 <TrueBrain> why you need to go there for that?!
22:04:14 <Xaroth> because the client wants the backups to be stored at securitas
22:04:33 <TrueBrain> not enough bandwidth to stream everything? :)
22:04:59 <TrueBrain> I mean, stream the backup remotely? :)
22:05:01 <Xaroth> vs a monthly 'trip' to do maintenance
22:05:32 <TrueBrain> for a lot of clients I do just that: stream it remotely, and put it on what ever they want from here :)
22:05:35 <PeterT> "error no such file or directory"
22:05:40 <TrueBrain> but they have fiber, flatfree ;)
22:05:45 <PeterT> its in the Peter folder
22:06:25 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: but I guess it is nice to take a trip every month :)
22:06:44 <PeterT> pwd: /home/Peter/zlib-1.2.3/mingwPORT
22:06:45 <TrueBrain> I would enjoy it :)
22:06:56 <Xaroth> because it'a always me, because i'm the only sysadmin who actually has clearance for all that stuff :P
22:07:12 <Xaroth> i'd rather sit behind my desk, 'working'.
22:07:18 <Yexo> PeterT: go to the correc tdirectory first (cd ../..)
22:07:19 <TrueBrain> so enjoy it! You are out for N hours, get paid for it
22:08:09 <PeterT> Yexo: working now.... thanks
22:08:22 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: I would take that job any day :)
22:08:38 <TrueBrain> I don't get paid for trips to and from the DC :(
22:08:41 <PeterT> Yexo: these commands seem simalar to openttd console commands
22:08:58 <PeterT> Yexo: i use the console non stop when playing
22:09:06 <Yexo> guess where the inspiration for the openttd console commands came from :)
22:10:41 <PeterT> Yexo: whats the time frame of 0.8.0 beta clients?
22:11:00 <TrueBrain> oeh, the famous: when-it-is-done!
22:11:03 <TrueBrain> I love saying that :)
22:11:13 <PeterT> oh im sorry for asking a question
22:11:49 <PeterT> when i enter "mkdir ~/ottdsrc
22:11:49 <TrueBrain> PeterT: a question which never works in any open source community: when will this be done?! :)
22:11:50 <PeterT> svn checkout svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk" what "cd" should i be in?
22:12:30 <Yexo> cd is short for "change directory"
22:12:43 <Yexo> pwd is short of "path working direcotyr", which shows your current directory
22:12:49 <Ammler> how is that called in win?
22:12:57 <Yexo> cd without any further paramters will go to your home directory
22:12:58 <Ammler> thought, it is cd, too
22:13:02 <PeterT> what should my pwd be?
22:13:31 <Yexo> ~ will expand to your home dir, so ~/ottdsrc is short for "/home/Peter/ottdsrc"
22:13:48 <TrueBrain> Sacro: don't confuse more than needed
22:13:49 <Sacro> depends on where your homedir is
22:13:49 <Yexo> Sacro: don't make it more difficult then it is
22:13:58 <PeterT> i just entered "cd /home/Peter"
22:14:12 <Yexo> it's the same as "cd" and "cd ~"
22:14:17 <PeterT> now i can get the source code?
22:14:34 <Yexo> just follow the instructions again :)
22:15:16 <Ammler> there should be a wikipage about which explains step by step
22:15:22 <PeterT> its already fetching stuff....
22:15:41 <PeterT> wikipage/compiling_on_mingw
22:17:03 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: frosch * r16274 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp town.h): -Fix: Disable multitile houses for which the newgrf does not define proper additional tiles. (instead of crashing later)
22:17:14 <PeterT> ok, its done getting source code
22:18:09 <Ammler> please expand the wiki page with the things you needed to ask.
22:18:42 <PeterT> if the wiki page was easy to edit
22:18:56 <PeterT> there are many codes i dont know what to do with
22:19:06 <PeterT> and i dont want to vandelize the page
22:19:06 <TrueBrain> codes .. plain text?
22:19:22 <Ammler> you can preview the edit
22:19:35 <Yexo> just edit the text, and if you really mess up we'll revert it (and as Ammler says, you can review what you did)
22:19:40 <Ammler> just try and check before you submit the result
22:19:59 <Yexo> yeah, I noticed that a bit too late :)
22:21:52 <TrueBrain> "/How.I.Met.Your.Mother.S04E03.720p.HDTV.X264-DIMENSION/how.i.met.your.mother.403.720p-dimension.rar is not RAR archive" :( :(
22:22:19 <TrueBrain> I have my eye-patch!
22:22:45 <PeterT> i hate how i met your mother
22:22:46 <TrueBrain> what is that for a useless comment?!
22:23:20 <PeterT> how long does compiling take?
22:23:29 <TrueBrain> PeterT: 7 minutes and 12 seconds
22:23:43 <TrueBrain> (it is just asking for random useless replies :p)
22:24:53 <Xaroth> bah this download is taking forever
22:25:01 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: what are you downloading?
22:25:04 <Xaroth> 3000 leechers, 72 seeders, and a whopping 2kbps
22:26:13 <TrueBrain> the DEViSE, BDK or STG?
22:26:34 * Xaroth goes find stuff to install
22:26:42 <TrueBrain> well, if you have IPv6 I can help you out ;)
22:27:05 <TrueBrain> then I can only upload :)
22:27:28 *** torahteen has joined #openttd
22:27:35 <Xaroth> ugh, need to find me a non-crap-ware usenet client
22:27:45 <torahteen> Hey guys... any way to make trains wait longer at signals before reversing direction?
22:28:02 <PeterT> theres a console command....
22:28:12 <PeterT> signal_wait_time <value>
22:30:23 <torahteen> like, I have a waiting "passing loop"
22:30:45 <torahteen> and occasionally, one train just waits a tad too long and decides to reverse
22:30:50 <torahteen> well, I'll let you know
22:31:50 <PeterT> Yexo: Done compilin without patch!
22:32:22 <Yexo> now you download the patch you want and put it in the directory with the source
22:32:47 <Yexo> no, that's the first step
22:33:14 <Yexo> just for reference, which patch are you trying to compile?
22:33:46 <Yexo> ok, now find out what revision the patch is for
22:33:56 <Yexo> most patch writer put that in the filename
22:34:27 <torahteen> I did list_vars and only have two
22:34:31 <Yexo> PeterT: then you need the 0.7 sources instead of the trunk sources
22:34:39 <torahteen> developer and pw_company or something similar
22:34:47 <PeterT> torahteen: try list_patches
22:34:47 <planetmaker> there's a trunk version of it, too, I think
22:34:59 <PeterT> Yexo: how do i get 0.7 source
22:35:09 <PeterT> same as before except change some coding?
22:35:18 <Yexo> svn checkout svn://svn.openttd.org/branches/0.7/ 0.7
22:35:28 <Yexo> that instead of "svn checkout .../trunk/"
22:35:50 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16275 /branches/0.7/src/lang/ (31 files): [0.7] -Backport a lot of language updates from trunk.
22:38:11 <Ammler> torahteen: we disable wait times completly, why do you need the trains to reverse?
22:38:32 <Yexo> torahteen: do list_settings
22:39:05 <PeterT> Yexo: svn: URL 'svn://svn.openttd.org/branches/0.7/0.7' doesnt exist
22:39:39 <TrueBrain> ... still no improvement :)
22:40:04 <Ammler> but if you call the folder like the branch, you don't need it.
22:41:09 <Yexo> read the above lines very carefully
22:41:48 <PeterT> cant c&p into mingw.... :(
22:41:59 <PeterT> says the same thing again
22:42:14 <Yexo> then reread again, and reread "<Ammler> space "
22:42:44 <Yexo> and you can paste by pressing shift+insert
22:42:54 <Yexo> or pressing your middle mouse button
22:43:35 <TrueBrain> he, I know a good joke about space craps! .... :p
22:43:52 <Yexo> PeterT: compare the url from the error you get with the url I gave you
22:44:12 <PeterT> tell ya when its done.....
22:44:28 <PeterT> you cant beleive how much i appreciate this.
22:45:10 <Ammler> which patch do you apply?
22:45:20 <PeterT> but it said "checked out revision 16275"
22:45:29 <PeterT> Ammler: close airports patch
22:45:40 <PeterT> Yexo: ok good, got worried
22:45:56 <Ammler> well, that patch won't work on 0.7 servers
22:46:07 <Ammler> so you could as easy use trunk
22:46:11 <PeterT> well ill play by myself
22:46:21 <PeterT> Ammler: patch is made for 0.7
22:47:02 <PeterT> Yexo: im gonna run the same coding as compiling before
22:47:09 <Ammler> at least the pacher should know that ;-)
22:47:35 <Ammler> or is that a close patch, which just skppes the orders?
22:47:51 <Ammler> that might work with 0.7
22:48:05 *** Polygon has joined #openttd
22:48:16 <PeterT> ok i need to go for a while
22:48:29 <PeterT> how long are ya gonna be here?
22:49:19 <Ammler> dutch devs are here all the time.
22:51:41 *** torahteen has left #openttd
23:15:38 <PeterT> nobody said anything while i was gone?
23:16:45 <PeterT> i just finished the "make" command
23:17:09 <PeterT> with the patch in the source dir?
23:17:15 <Yexo> did you apply the patch?
23:17:30 <Yexo> patch -p0 < patchfile.diff
23:18:22 <Yexo> after you've done that, do "make" again
23:18:52 <PeterT> and replace "patchfile" with the name?
23:19:27 <PeterT> no such file or directory
23:19:51 <Yexo> does "ls" show the file?
23:20:06 <Yexo> if no, then you haven't put it in the correct directory, or you are not in the correct directory
23:21:03 <PeterT> airport-close-v6-0.7.0.patch
23:21:28 <PeterT> oh wait forget this /\
23:21:32 <Yexo> and you did type "patch -p0 < airport-close-v6-0.7.0.patch"?
23:21:39 <PeterT> forget the "make file"
23:22:17 <PeterT> can't find file to patch at input line 5
23:22:18 * Chruker checks the beach to see if there is a life guard on duty
23:22:32 <Yexo> please copy paste what I said you to type
23:22:58 <PeterT> it asks for "file to patch"
23:23:31 <Yexo> can you type "head airport...." and copy the output to paste.openttd.org? (replace airport... by the filename)
23:24:01 <PeterT> "head airport" as a command?
23:24:12 <Yexo> no, "head airport-close-v6-0.7.0.patch"
23:24:43 <PeterT> no such file or directory
23:25:24 <Yexo> you should know my reply to that by now
23:25:43 <PeterT> im in the wrong directory
23:26:06 *** oskari89 has joined #openttd
23:26:31 <PeterT> how do i copy this from the mingw console to paste.openttd.org?
23:27:26 <PeterT> ok its in paste.openttd.org
23:27:52 <Yexo> use "-p1" instead of "-p0"
23:28:15 <oskari89> Damn that ZyXel firewall/router..
23:28:21 <Yexo> you can see "diff --git" in the patch, for git and hg patches you need to use -p1
23:29:20 <PeterT> i'll copy and paste what happened into paste.openttd.org
23:30:32 <Xaroth> that means it was patching :o
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23:33:54 <PeterT> what i dont understand is, why does "patch -p0 patchfile.diff" patch it
23:34:36 <Xaroth> because you tell it to?
23:34:48 <Xaroth> -p0 tells it to patch the files using a specific format
23:34:53 <Xaroth> -p1 is a different format
23:37:59 <Eddi|zuHause> no, -p0/1 does have absolutely nothing to do with .patch/.diff
23:38:13 <PeterT> YES IT WORKS!!!! :D!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
23:38:57 <Xaroth> it doesn't have to do with the file extension
23:39:03 <Xaroth> it has to do with the file content
23:39:05 <Eddi|zuHause> (/kick PeterT Satzzeichen sind keine Rudeltiere)
23:40:05 <Yexo> don't worry, Eddi|zuHause can't kick you from here :)
23:40:27 * Yexo is waiting from an "but I can" kick from someone :p
23:40:29 <Sacro> you need to do -i InputFile
23:40:40 <Sacro> otherwise it'll just hang waiting for input
23:40:55 <Sacro> 00:33 < PeterT> what i dont understand is, why does "patch -p0 patchfile.diff" patch it
23:40:57 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +o Yexo
23:40:57 <Yexo> Sacro: don't confuse him more then you have to
23:41:09 <Sacro> Yexo: i'm not trying to confuse him
23:41:20 <PeterT> what is inputfile for?
23:41:23 <Sacro> he'll be more confused if you don't point out that that line won't patch it
23:41:35 <Sacro> I know I was the first time it sat and did nothing
23:41:39 <Yexo> SmatZ: I could do it with DorpsGek without that :)
23:41:53 *** DorpsGek sets mode: -o Yexo
23:41:58 <PeterT> so, what is inputfile for?!
23:42:04 <Yexo> you don't ahve to be op for @kick to work :)
23:42:07 <Sacro> PeterT: telling it which patch file to use
23:42:16 <Sacro> so you want -i patchfile.diff
23:42:42 <Sacro> so your full command is 'patch -p0 -i patchfile.diff'
23:42:51 <PeterT> ill just stick to "patch -p0 patchfile.diff
23:42:53 <Yexo> PeterT: what Sacro is telling you is that "patch -p1 -i patchfile.diff" is the same as "patch -p1 < patchfile.diff"
23:43:05 <Yexo> PeterT: you need to use either "<" or "-i"
23:43:10 <PeterT> Yexo: but the added -i is for?
23:43:23 <Sacro> PeterT: that won't work, hence the point of my comment
23:43:24 <Eddi|zuHause> for it working at all
23:43:27 <PeterT> Yexo: why not just "patch -p0 patch.diff"
23:43:28 <Yexo> execute "patch -h" and you'll know
23:43:39 <Sacro> you need to tell it the patch file you want it to use
23:43:58 <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: because that uses patch.diff as output file, not as input file
23:44:19 <Yexo> it comes down to this: patch (the program) needs to know that patchfile.diff is a filename, and not another argument
23:44:22 <Eddi|zuHause> but you don't want to modify the patch file
23:45:16 <PeterT> ok, it worked before with "patch -p0 patchfile.diff" can i just use that?
23:45:30 <Yexo> no, and it didn't work before with that
23:45:40 <Yexo> it worked with "patch -p0 < patchfile.diff"
23:45:41 <Sacro> i'd personally file a bug
23:45:44 <PeterT> i mean "patch -p1 patchfile.patch"
23:45:47 <Sacro> because it shouldn't work like that :\
23:46:09 <Yexo> but if it really works, sure, use it
23:46:34 <PeterT> "patch -p0 -i file.diff"
23:46:41 <PeterT> im looking at the forums
23:46:57 <Sacro> -i tells patch that you're specifying input from a file
23:47:04 <PeterT> or as darkvater says: "i usually use patch -p0 < file.diff"
23:47:19 <Sacro> i think that syntax may file with huge diff files
23:47:40 <Sacro> am I right in thinking that'll buffer the whole file into RAM first?
23:47:51 <PeterT> i find the applying patch/diff files sortof confusing
23:47:58 <PeterT> it doesnt tell you that you need to compile first
23:48:40 <Sacro> extract, patch, configure, make, execute
23:48:50 <PeterT> so i just apply the patch to my previously installed 0.7.0 with tortoise svn?
23:49:22 <PeterT> ok, well i get it, dont confuse me
23:49:52 <Sacro> no, you can only apply a patch to the source
23:49:52 <PeterT> Yexo: do you think there will be a multiplayer server name search?
23:50:28 <Yexo> PeterT: now you have it working without tortoisesvn, please don't start to use it
23:50:55 <PeterT> i sorta enjoy entering these codes
23:51:00 <Yexo> do you think there will be a multiplayer server name search? <- not in 0.7, in trunk maybe
23:51:12 <Yexo> if someone codes it, maybe
23:51:29 <PeterT> can i code it (<-------total noob)
23:51:52 <Yexo> if you never programmed anything before, yes
23:51:54 <Eddi|zuHause> if you code it, he will come
23:51:59 <Yexo> otherwise it's not very hard
23:52:17 <Yexo> but I'm not going to help you code it
23:53:04 <PeterT> ok, dont, ill search on the internet
23:53:12 <PeterT> do you need to know C++?
23:53:34 <Sacro> random chance could prevail though...
23:53:42 <Sacro> PeterT: depnds what you compare it to :)
23:54:34 <PeterT> is it like "here is 2 commands, now you know C++" or "study this for hours and program a sodoku game"
23:56:03 <Chruker> you may want to replace hours with something indicating a longer time frame
23:56:04 <Yexo> it's more like study it for months
23:57:25 <PeterT> when did you start Yexo?
23:57:44 <Yexo> programming? 7 years ago
23:59:05 <Eddi|zuHause> i started when i was 12
23:59:19 <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: same here, for me that's 7 years ago :)
23:59:49 <Eddi|zuHause> that was before TT
continue to next day ⏵
