IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-04-11
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00:03:36 *** Klanticus has joined #openttd
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00:51:30 <frosch123> that would sound as if I would leave :)
00:51:47 <DJNekkid> dont worry, im not drunk :)
00:52:27 <DJNekkid> im just, as always, trying to do something with .nfo that im not 100% sure im gonna get right within the next hour or two :)
00:52:28 <frosch123> now that sounds as if you are pretty drunk
00:53:42 <DJNekkid> nah ... im just on thin ice :)
00:53:55 <frosch123> actually I replied that to your first sentence, but it fits even better to the second :)
00:53:56 <DJNekkid> it's that var action 2 60 thingy...
00:54:19 <frosch123> that counts vehicle ids, or similiar...
00:54:50 <DJNekkid> but it does not behave like i thought it does
00:55:08 <frosch123> what did you expect?
00:55:21 <DJNekkid> if <number> <use sprite>
00:55:57 <DJNekkid> is is most likely exactly what it does, but not the way i want it to :)
00:56:12 <frosch123> maybe you are looking for var 40 and 41?
00:56:37 <DJNekkid> i've combinded it with thoose
00:59:32 <DJNekkid> i guess u dont wanna see code frosch123 :)
01:00:17 <frosch123> I do not mind if it is fun :p
01:05:21 <DJNekkid> hmm, perhaps if i made them modulos...
01:06:31 <frosch123> -1 * 0 02 00 F7 81 41 08 FF 01 99 00 00 03 C0 00 <- maybe "41 10" instead of "41 08" ?
01:07:35 <DJNekkid> what does 10 do compared to 08 ?
01:07:48 <DJNekkid> 08 is "counted from back", atleast the way i think of it
01:07:58 <frosch123> "number of vehicles" vs. "position from back"
01:09:26 <DJNekkid> in only that line, or all of the "08"-lines?
01:11:16 <frosch123> -1 * 0 02 00 F6 81 60 1E 00 FF 02 F6 00 01 03 F8 00 05 05 F7 00 <- well, that one I do not understand
01:11:54 <DJNekkid> that one is ... count the number of vehicle ID 1E's
01:12:01 <frosch123> maybe you want to use type 82
01:12:26 <DJNekkid> but i think i may have another solution, you ticked me :)
01:13:31 <frosch123> I assume you want to: chain to F8 if the train has length 5, chain to F6 if the train has length 3, chain to F7 else
01:15:41 <DJNekkid> almost, i want to chain to the mentioned ids, but only if it counts x number of vehicleID 1E's in a row
01:16:54 <DJNekkid> but, i made it anyway, thanx to you, you just didnt know it :)
01:16:57 <frosch123> so use 81 41 10 FF instead?
01:17:00 <DJNekkid> -1 * 0 02 00 F6 81 41 10 FF 02 F6 00 01 03 F8 00 05 05 F7 00
01:17:20 <DJNekkid> if that made any sense to you :)
01:17:40 <frosch123> that's what I said :)
01:18:08 <DJNekkid> damn, this dutchset version 2.0 is getting quite advanced...
01:18:21 <DJNekkid> or 1.5 or whatever they wanna call it
01:18:32 <frosch123> oh, you are also doing dutchset? I only knew about 2cc
01:18:45 <DJNekkid> they made it in grfmaker
01:18:56 <frosch123> resp. as most stuff of 2cc is drawn by purno, what is the difference to dutchset :p
01:18:57 <DJNekkid> but the outcome were ... somewhat limited
01:19:09 <frosch123> you already said that :p
01:19:39 <DJNekkid> so purno asked me if i wanted to add stuff to the dutchset
01:20:27 <DJNekkid> and that dutchset do they want to be as realistic as possible, with only this many wagons here, there, add engine if less then this, more then that, etc
01:20:34 <frosch123> I never looked at the dutchset, I just assumed that all dutchset trains were also included in 2cc
01:21:01 <DJNekkid> nah ... a few yes, but not very many more then other countries
01:21:17 <frosch123> that R stuff might also make it easier, as you have only fixed combinations of wagons
01:21:49 <frosch123> i.e. you could generally disallow attaching of wagons, and only add fixed trains consisting of 16 articulated parts or so
01:22:04 <frosch123> R is generally used for "realistic" in this channel
01:22:13 <frosch123> esp. when belugas is here :)
01:22:54 <DJNekkid> but the problem arise when there are normally 4 parts, but some of them have six
01:23:03 <DJNekkid> and one just add two wagons
01:23:11 <DJNekkid> and what grapichs to put where, and how
01:23:21 <DJNekkid> sad enough do i find it very interesting
01:23:52 <frosch123> hehe, just hope they will not come up if date dependent things
01:24:11 <DJNekkid> well, there is that as well
01:24:19 <DJNekkid> im currently workin on the (v)IRM
01:24:32 <DJNekkid> from 1994-2002 (or something) were it 3 or 4 parts
01:24:41 <DJNekkid> from 2002 --> is it 4 or 6 :)
01:27:27 <frosch123> the funny thing with these dates is, that the introduction and retire date in ttd is randomized by several years, so not every 'special layout' is available in every game
01:27:58 <DJNekkid> i know ... up to 512 days from the intro-day afaik ?
01:28:04 <DJNekkid> so, about a year and a half...
01:28:12 <DJNekkid> atleast the introdate
01:29:52 <frosch123> the retire date can vary by 5 years :)
01:31:02 <DJNekkid> oki... that is luckily not my table as the programmer/coder/whatever...
01:31:09 <DJNekkid> i just follow orders :)
01:33:19 <DJNekkid> hmm, i wonder actually, if that thing pikka gave me the other day were way to complicated...
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09:13:40 <mizipzor> why is it that when built, the exe ends up under objs rather than bin?
09:33:38 <Rubidium> cause nobody with real knowledge of MSVC ever bothered 'fixing' that
09:41:04 <taisteluorava> hm, is 3500 horsepower and 564 kN enought to pull 31 wagons?
09:42:55 <taisteluorava> now i have 6,600hp and 614kN which does nice with 31 wagon, but i need to upgrade them to train's, which are faster, but they have a less power
09:47:20 <mizipzor> Rubidium: if you consider it something that should be fixed, i would be happy to help
09:48:31 <Alberth> taisteluorava: throw in an additional loc
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10:09:26 * TrueBrain waves a good morning to all of you
10:09:35 <TrueBrain> just to make Rubidium frustrated abuot timezones ;)
10:10:27 <Alberth> good morning TrueBrain (although living in the same time zone as Rubidium)
10:11:01 <mizipzor> here its so early im not yet quite sure where i live
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10:15:29 <petern> taisteluorava, "31 wagons" means nothing, but maybe learn about physics?
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10:32:45 <petern> why does the news window include a variable with the word 'chat' in it? :o
10:38:12 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r16026 /trunk/src/network/network_chat_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Use font height for chat line spacing instead of fixed value.
10:40:28 <Azrael-> I just figured out how to blockade somebody's road vehicles
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10:44:34 <mizipzor> what function is it that spawns industries?
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10:45:06 <mizipzor> the one used when a new industry is randomly spawned, prospected or manually built
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11:10:40 <Rubidium> petern: was that a rhetorical question or do you really want to know ;)
11:10:54 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: well .. now I do want to know! :p
11:11:57 <taisteluorava> are those company autoclean number's in minutes?
11:12:32 <petern> game months, obviously
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11:31:16 <Aprogas> I need a volunteer to host a 0.7.0 server to see if I can crash it as a client. I am able to crash my own server but I want to know if it works remotely or locally.
11:33:13 <taisteluorava> what does a setting called "reload_cfg"
11:38:06 <taisteluorava> found answer from forum
11:40:58 <Ammler> taisteluorava: wiki is also helpful
11:41:13 <TrueBrain> Aprogas: if you tell us how you do so, we most likely can also tell you if it can be done remotely ;)
11:41:32 <taisteluorava> i checked it first, but there was not about it in wiki
11:41:45 <Ammler> well, then there is now :P
11:42:17 <Aprogas> TrueBrain: I don't want to publicly say how it is done in case it really works.
11:43:15 <TrueBrain> Aprogas: open a bug on the bugtracker, and we make it private :)
11:43:39 <TrueBrain> but one crash-server is coming up :p
11:43:47 <Aprogas> I first need to test how exactly it occurs before I can describe the bug.
11:43:57 <Aprogas> So I can describe how to reproduce it.
11:45:03 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound)
11:47:13 <Ammler> you can kill mz.openttdcoop.org:3980, if you want
11:47:38 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: killing OpenTTD with CTRL+C (what I normally do) gives me:
11:47:44 <TrueBrain> ^CUsage:program_name [address][:port]
11:48:20 <TrueBrain> bah, you can't SSH tunnel a server ...
11:48:53 <TrueBrain> Aprogas: ./openttd -n secure.openttd.org:4001
11:49:29 <Aprogas> Ammler: Did it crash?
11:49:55 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: quiting the game in general produces that :p (0.7.0 btw)
11:50:02 <Aprogas> Though, I just realised what I was doing, it's not a bug at all.
11:51:57 <Aprogas> TrueBrain: Seems to be a different revision, but I think I don't need testing anymore.
11:52:00 <TrueBrain> Aprogas: 'wrong revision'
11:52:42 <TrueBrain> Aprogas: possible I compiled the wrong thing :p
11:53:23 <Aprogas> I was trying to insert a non-printable ASCII character in a sign to beat space and exclaim in the sign list sorting, I happened to pick the bell character which is created by pressing Ctrl+G, which happens to be the huge screenshot hotkey.
11:54:00 <Aprogas> Since the process effectively froze and my players reported over Skype the server was non-responsive, I had assumed it was a general crash, rather than just doing something complex.
11:54:16 <TrueBrain> ... can I laugh out loud now? :p
11:54:47 <Aprogas> I am still curious to try if I can insert non-printable chars in a sign name though, so I guess I'll play a bit more with that locally.
11:55:02 <Rubidium> hmm... now Gentoo is going to issue a GLSA because you can get an OpenTTD server into an (almost) infinite loop with just a simple keystroke?
11:55:23 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: Gentoo won't bother .. nos ure about Debian though :p
11:55:37 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: you have any idea where above string can come from? (how ever I quit OpenTTD, even trunk, it shows me that :p)
11:56:05 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: but Gentoo has the tendency to make wrong GLSA reports for OpenTTD
11:56:19 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: so far I only saw GLSAs in reply to VCEs
11:57:53 <TrueBrain> oh, the 'usage' line comes from esd ...
11:57:55 <Rubidium> yeah, but what the GLSA says isn't said in the VCE
11:58:52 <Rubidium> "before 0.6.2" / "0.6.1 and earlier" != "before 0.6.3"
12:00:42 <Rubidium> Aprogas: did you know that via OpenTTD's 'rcon' you can make a huge screenshot too and make the server unresponsive? Though that 'vulnerability' if you may call it that is the same that an authorised user may shut down a computer via a remote administration interface
12:03:00 <Aprogas> Isn't the screenshot created locally after the client has received the map information from the server?
12:03:34 <Rubidium> 'rcon' is a remote server administration 'tool'
12:03:52 <petern> ^G in a string in the game should not do anything with screenshots
12:04:12 <Aprogas> petern: I was trying to enter a bell character in a sign name and hence pressed Ctrl+G myself.
12:04:42 <Aprogas> And just like pressing e.g. tab when entering a sign name, that just behaves as the configured hotkey for e.g. fast forward.
12:04:49 <Rubidium> the input rejects 'unprintable' characters
12:05:05 <Aprogas> That indeed seems to be the case.
12:06:39 <Rubidium> so the only way to 'enter' them is by making a modified binary that ignores that 'reject', making a savegame with unprintable characters and letting the server host that savegame
12:07:01 <Rubidium> but then you still can't enter unprintable characters remotely
12:07:51 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: can't making a screenshot be put in a seperate thread? :p
12:08:03 <TrueBrain> the png compression mostly
12:08:31 <Rubidium> not really, because the compression isn't the really time taking part
12:09:02 <Aprogas> Maybe just display a message in-game just before the really time taking part.
12:09:06 <Rubidium> especially because uncompressed the thing becomes several GBs
12:09:14 <Rubidium> and thus it goes into trashing and such
12:09:17 <petern> but yeah, that's a problem :)
12:09:17 <TrueBrain> png compression is so damn slow :(
12:10:06 <petern> let's just remove giant screenshot :D
12:10:10 <petern> it's useless anyway...
12:10:13 <TrueBrain> petern: for 2kx2k .. yes :p
12:10:18 <Rubidium> and most systems can't handle 4+ GB screenschots ;)
12:10:32 <Aprogas> I like giant screenshot, but perhaps hide it just a bit deeper than Ctrl+G
12:10:52 <TrueBrain> yeah .. lets hide it completely
12:11:00 <Aprogas> Like Ctrl+Alt+G, plus a message right after pressing that it might take a while.
12:11:30 <TrueBrain> "You are about to kick all your clients of your server; are you sure?"
12:12:01 * petern ponders going to telehouse today
12:12:17 <TrueBrain> did you switch that darn server to a 100 mbit by now?
12:12:37 <TrueBrain> but cut to .. what was it .. 4mbit? :p
12:12:47 <Aprogas> "Making a huge screenshot takes very long. Do you want to cancel?" "Yes / No / Cancel"
12:12:58 <TrueBrain> yes I want to cancel
12:13:00 <TrueBrain> no I want to cancel
12:13:04 <TrueBrain> cancel I want to cancel
12:13:18 *** KingJ is now known as kingj
12:13:26 * petern ponders going to telehouse today
12:13:37 <Aprogas> It's just the default windows yes prompt.
12:13:55 <TrueBrain> so we should use that .. sounds reasonable :p
12:14:02 <TrueBrain> Windows is perfectly capable of only showing yes / no ;)
12:14:19 <TrueBrain> btw, asking if you want to cancel is a question which is dangarous :) Asking if you want to continue makes more sense ;) :p
12:16:31 <TrueBrain> morning glx :) How is your makedepend going?
12:16:33 <Aprogas> You could be like WinZip trial version, randomly swapping the agree and cancel buttons for the free trial license popup.
12:16:40 <taisteluorava> -[1921-2021]- 24/7 dedicated server. ))-Very hard-(( Test your skills.2cc/NOAIR heh, pretty hard server, Modified building cost and HIGH train running cost make's it pretty hard
12:16:59 <glx> TrueBrain: indeed I forgot to patch my makedepend ;)
12:17:11 <TrueBrain> glx: no, you said you were going to make a small app, remember? :p
12:17:17 <TrueBrain> taisteluorava: tnx for that advertise; now never do that again
12:19:39 <TrueBrain> I just imagine this channel being ran over by advertises of servers ... would be annoying :)
12:19:59 <petern> not when we blacklist the persistent offenders from the server list
12:20:16 <TrueBrain> hmm ... that sounds like an idea :)
12:21:00 <Cybertinus> taking a Giant Screenshot of a 2kx2k land takes a long time indeed :)
12:21:48 <glx> Cybertinus: and you will probably not be able to open it:)
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12:22:06 <TrueBrain> glx: it just needs a sed of s@^src@objs/debug@g;s/.cpp:/.o:/g ;)
12:22:15 <TrueBrain> but it looks sane :)
12:22:22 <TrueBrain> glx: how fast is it? :p
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12:22:54 <petern> i thik i put a switch in telehouse
12:23:00 <petern> that i've totally forgotten about
12:23:10 <TrueBrain> glx: oh, I just noticed you need to remove 'src/' completely :p ;)
12:23:21 <TrueBrain> 3rdparty/squirrel/squirrel/sqapi.o: /prog/openttd/trunk/src/3rdparty/squirrel/squirrel/sqfuncstate.h <- valid line
12:23:30 <TrueBrain> petern: how can you forget about that? :)
12:23:43 <Cybertinus> FloSoft: where should my screenshot be saved, so I can check if I can open it ;)
12:24:21 <Cybertinus> glx: sry, I meaned to highlight you ;). Where is my screenshot saved?
12:24:48 *** kingj is now known as KingJ
12:25:04 <Cybertinus> glx: I'm on LInux ;). But then it is ~/.openttd or something?
12:25:05 <KenjiE20> isn't it "<current openttd.cfg dir>\screenshots\"?
12:25:08 <TrueBrain> glx: this is one-deep?
12:26:01 <petern> it's possible i only thought i did
12:26:12 <TrueBrain> as you did pick up on the comment we can't have .h files in the depend tree on the left side?
12:26:22 <TrueBrain> petern: lol :) For what you need the switch? :p
12:26:42 <petern> for connection between two racks
12:26:49 <glx> TrueBrain: it doesn't handle that yet :)
12:27:01 <petern> by their names you might guess they're quite far apart
12:27:03 <TrueBrain> glx: just checking if you also read that ;)
12:27:36 <glx> for now it just scans a dir recursively
12:28:23 <TrueBrain> I guess that is fine, although some files are never used for some targets .. but that shouldn't be a real problem :)
12:29:37 <glx> I guess it can have them as arg (like makedepend)
12:29:46 <TrueBrain> minor details for later :)
12:30:04 * TrueBrain likes that WT3 works on my iPhone .. ghehe :)
12:30:51 <Rubidium> glx: what if #include is split on a 2048 byte boundary?
12:31:01 <TrueBrain> glx: it is still my iPhone :p
12:31:24 <Rubidium> hmm, oh fgets reads a line ;)
12:32:20 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: you just shouldn't put #include after 2048 whitespaces :p
12:38:32 <Rubidium> why does the discussion always end when he enters?
12:38:45 <petern> EoD... End of Discussion...
12:40:19 <TrueBrain> petern: I btw still don't get how you manage to get 2 * 2 on a rack :p
12:41:12 <EoD> TrueBrain: btw: if you copy the iptraf file from your gentoo (ipv6) machine to your debian machine, you get ipv6 stats on debian :)
12:41:29 <TrueBrain> EoD: hehe :) Sadly enough, iptraf is a moment-monitor ..
12:41:46 <TrueBrain> but I guess I could just install a few iptables rules to show exactly how much bandwidth goes over IPv4 and IPv6
12:42:21 <EoD> i thought about your router and the ipv6 problems. Moment-monitor is just fine there imho
12:43:07 <TrueBrain> IPv4 hits: 694692 hits
12:43:08 <TrueBrain> IPv6 hits: 11644 hits
12:43:10 <TrueBrain> IPv6 ratio: 1.6485 %
12:43:11 <TrueBrain> IPv4 uniq: 8003 IPs
12:43:14 <TrueBrain> IPv6 ratio: 0.9897 %
12:43:27 * SpComb generates a million unique IPv6 hits for TrueBrain
12:44:14 <glx> TrueBrain: I'm bad for your stats (my IPv6 changes on every boot)
12:44:23 <TrueBrain> glx: like you reboot that often :p
12:44:53 <glx> though I have 2 IPv6, the dynamic one and a static based on MAC
12:46:26 <TrueBrain> glx ... what is wrong with your scripts :(
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12:46:35 <DorpsGek> glx: I don't recognize you.
12:47:01 <TrueBrain> now he is getting away with it! :(
12:50:11 <glx> I wonder how it managed to recognise me before (I always used a wrong hostmask)
12:50:23 <TrueBrain> with username / password it is always okay
12:57:38 <petern> TrueBrain, 2 * 2 on a rack? huh?
12:58:01 <TrueBrain> petern: you siad the server has a 100 mbit, but that it can only use 2 * 2, right?
12:58:51 <petern> server -> switch -> routers -> 2 leased lines -> routers -> routers -> internet
12:59:15 <TrueBrain> got to go .. DC visit
13:00:58 <orudge> ah, damn, was just going to speak to you TrueBrain, heh
13:01:03 <orudge> ah well, ta ta for now
13:08:03 <glx> ,...for(FileList::iterator it = _files.begin(); it != _files.end(); it++) {
13:08:04 <glx> ,...,...for(HeaderList::iterator h = it->second->begin(); h != it->second->end(); h++) {
13:08:04 <glx> ,...,...,...FileList::iterator f = _files.find(*h);
13:08:04 <glx> ,...,...,...if (f != _files.end()) it->second->insert(f->second->begin(), f->second->end());
13:08:11 <glx> small addition, big effect ;)
13:10:13 <glx> but probably still incomplete
13:10:53 <TinoDidriksen> Why do you need a custom makedepend, btw?
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13:11:16 <glx> because we already need a custom one ;)
13:11:35 <glx> OOB makedepend fails on openttd code
13:14:02 <TinoDidriksen> Oh, cute. Haven't seen that problem before. What OS/arch fails?
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13:15:01 <glx> most I think :) (unless it's a patched makedepend with higher MAXFILES value)
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13:16:21 <TinoDidriksen> Can't recall an arch that actually still uses makedepend. gcc -M does nicely.
13:18:12 <frosch123> he, I get back, and the topic is still the same :)
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13:26:39 <SpComb> dunno what it uses for #include dep tracking
13:28:39 <EoD> what requirements does a (full - 8 players) openttd-server have (without ships)? More than 1 GHz? More than 100MBit?
13:30:39 <frosch123> for a 64x64 map that is certainly enough
13:30:56 <EoD> i thought about 512^2 or 1024^2
13:34:34 <SpComb> more than 100mbit/s is asking for a lot
13:35:23 <SpComb> but not for a single OpenTTD server
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13:36:41 <EoD> SpComb: The server is more than just an OpenTTD server :)
13:40:24 <EoD> But 1GHz (for openttd) for a full and maybe larger map is enough?
13:43:53 * frosch123 hopes glx has more luck than him
13:44:18 <glx> well my code skips #include <squirrel.h> :(
13:44:34 <TheBoff> how to become good at openttd?
13:44:40 <TheBoff> I'm playing against CabAI
13:44:45 <frosch123> mine always rebuilds everything, though Makefile.dep looks exactly the same as the one of makedepend :(
13:44:47 <TheBoff> and it's kicking my arse
13:45:19 <TheBoff> is it a good idea to max out loans at the start, for instance?
13:45:56 <Vikthor> only if you have use for the loan
13:46:20 <glx> and repay it as soon as you can
13:47:09 <TheBoff> but on any map size, there will be some use for the loan?
13:48:28 <TheBoff> as in, you can nearly always expand
13:50:48 <TheBoff> and is there a particular industry that gives lots of cash?
13:50:55 <TheBoff> livestock to factories seems good
13:55:55 <glx> hmm ftp://ftp.jimbrooks.org/tools/makedepend_python_20050724.zip could be enough (but it's in python)
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13:58:01 <Alberth> TheBoff: there is a window with cargo payment rates under the 'display graphs' button.
13:58:32 <TheBoff> I discovered openttd yesterday, and it may be seriosuly harming my exam prospects ;)
14:01:29 <Rubidium> maybe we should add "Playing OpenTTD can seriously harm your carreer prospects" on the boxes we sell ;)
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14:02:09 <glx> hmm seems this python thing doesn't handle <> either
14:11:01 <SHRIKEE> hehe, i love the new trainsigns in openttd :P
14:11:43 <SHRIKEE> only sometimes trains are waiting for ages
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14:29:59 <Xaroth> SHRIKEE: that's mostly up to how you design your rails tho :P
14:30:18 <Xaroth> PBS signals kick ass tbqfh
14:31:02 <Xaroth> 1 entry PBS before splitting the line to various station lines, right after the station a one-way signal leading them out, after which a signal combo to re-combine the track
14:31:08 <SHRIKEE> i'm a bit confused with the one way and regular pbs though
14:31:09 <Xaroth> quick, dirty but efficient
14:31:38 <Xaroth> er, the one-way signals can NOT be crossed from the other side
14:31:51 <Xaroth> the other ones can, and will not be treated as a signal when crossed from the other side
14:32:51 <SHRIKEE> and which pathfinder works best with the new signals?
14:33:02 <Xaroth> personal flavour really
14:33:26 <SHRIKEE> i think i use the default now
14:33:53 <frosch123> just use the recommended ones :)
14:37:55 <Rubidium> no, that's a compiler flaw
14:38:12 <frosch123> but it is also 'fixed' by make clean
14:39:30 <frosch123> distcc no, ccache I guess not, but cannot tell anymore as I reconfigured for debug
14:39:38 <TinoDidriksen> I've seen that happen with my projects as well with plain gcc. Bizarre and unexplained, and I shrugged it off and continued coding...
14:41:29 <welshdragon> Xaroth: can you show me a picture of your PBS layout?
14:45:34 <frosch123> so 'manual industries' crashed ottd, and noone reported... seems like it is downloaded more often than used
14:46:40 <welshdragon> le be back shortly
14:47:14 <frosch123> hmm, maybe msvc zeroes unintialised memory on the stack, so no windows user noticed
14:54:16 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: frosch * r16027 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r9555): Usage of uninitialised memory when trying to build a random new industry, but there are no industrytypes to choose from (i.e. all appearance probabilities are zero).
14:54:54 <SHRIKEE> is it better to use just PB signals or mix them up? It seems there are some weird things happening in my infrastructure
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15:01:23 <Xaroth> use only pbs for a specific route
15:01:35 <Xaroth> or use non-pbs for a specific route
15:01:51 <Xaroth> don't mix em in the same route, as that negates the use of PBS
15:02:03 <SHRIKEE> that's what im doing wrong then :o
15:02:08 <Xaroth> It'll only calculate until the next block, not beyond it
15:02:10 <SHRIKEE> i use pbs at intersections
15:02:18 <SHRIKEE> and regular for the rest
15:02:28 <Xaroth> that can work, but make sure that you use them wisely
15:02:35 <Xaroth> not have their use being cut off by regulars
15:02:37 <SHRIKEE> yea, well its a mess now :P
15:02:53 <SHRIKEE> there are like 150 trains going crazy being lost :o
15:06:00 <SHRIKEE> using just PBS seems to work for apart i tried it on
15:08:06 *** KingJ is now known as kingj
15:24:07 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16028 /trunk/src/table/settings.h:
15:24:07 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#2826]: storing/loading some currencies failed due to inconsistent "tables".
15:24:07 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: -Codechange: unduplicate settings "tables" that might be made inconsistent in the future (to prevent other cases like FS#2826).
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15:40:44 <Xaroth> when mass-resolving all server infos from the MS, some servers keep terminating the query before fully sending the data.
15:49:01 <frosch123> [16:40] <TinoDidriksen> I've seen that happen with my projects as well with plain gcc. Bizarre and unexplained, and I shrugged it off and continued coding... <- I noticed I recently updated gcc so some of the objects were created using the old version. Did that also apply to you?
15:51:07 <TinoDidriksen> Well, that scenario has also happened to me. I tend to rsync projects between machines, and has forgotten to make clean a few times.
15:51:44 <frosch123> so you rsynced also the objects?
15:52:11 <TinoDidriksen> Yeah. But I've seen totally random failures that cleaning fixed.
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16:51:19 <Rubidium> Xaroth: you should read up on what UDP is and how it behaves
16:53:47 <EoD> UDP is good for spamming ;)
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17:09:51 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16029 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#2785]: do not give "... Mines" as name to the station of oil rigs, or more general: do not add "... Mines" when the all of the cargoes are part of the liquid, passenger or mail classes.
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17:27:07 <Rubidium> hmm, - is what your patch adds, right?
17:29:18 <frosch123> hmm, maybe "endian_host" was what caused the trouble of continuous remaking
17:30:25 <frosch123> i.e. glx: does 'make' behave sane with the new Makefile.dep ?
17:32:41 <glx> well for r16029 it recompiled some saveload stuff
17:34:05 <glx> but maybe there was some leftovers
17:36:32 <frosch123> using source.list should remove the macos stuff, shouln't it?
17:37:55 <glx> well macos stuff is included from stdafx.h IIRC
17:38:41 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: translators * r16030 /trunk/src/lang/ (traditional_chinese.txt unfinished/serbian.txt):
17:38:41 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-04-11 17:38:26
17:38:41 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: serbian - 50 fixed by etran (50)
17:38:41 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 6 fixed, 2 changed by josesun (8)
17:39:08 <frosch123> I mean, source.list contains all sources and includes, but also contains #ifdefs. So if you would only include the files of `gcc -E source.list`, you do not need to process the #ifdefs in the sources
17:39:45 <frosch123> though I guess that is also available in some variable of the makefile
17:45:08 <glx> headers are not in makefile
17:45:48 <frosch123> I need '#include <string.h>' and I need to define 'MAX_PATH' :)
17:46:20 <Rubidium> MAX_PATH is probably in <limits.h>
17:47:02 <glx> MAX_PATH is in stdlib.h for me
17:47:36 <Rubidium> oh, it's PATH_MAX in <limits.h>
17:49:02 <glx> I have PATH_MAX in limits.h
17:56:49 <frosch123> oh, source.list is processed by awk :)
17:57:32 <frosch123> and it removes .hpp and .h in that step
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17:57:53 <glx> yes .hpp and .h are used only for generate
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17:57:59 <petern> that took a while, hehe
17:58:13 <frosch123> but .h and .hpp are also useful for the depend stuff
17:58:24 <frosch123> to exclude os specific stuff
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17:59:24 <frosch123> or are you going to process the #ifdefs in ottd_depend ?
18:00:18 <frosch123> or is it good enough :)
18:00:40 <glx> I think it's not a big problem to depends on 3 extra files ;)
18:02:11 <glx> endian_host usually doesn't change
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18:10:46 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: alberth * r16031 /trunk/src/highscore_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Added nested widgets to highscore and endgame windows.
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18:38:22 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: alberth * r16032 /trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Completing widget numbers of query windows.
18:48:47 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
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19:14:46 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: alberth * r16033 /trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Added nested widgets to about window, land-info window, and both query windows.
19:17:47 <petern> uk.binaries.openttd.org should be fast now
19:18:00 <EoD> petern: TrueBrain is away, isn't he?
19:24:40 <petern> where i work, obviously
19:25:25 <SpComb> your employer is officially sponsoring OpenTTD?
19:30:08 <jonty-comp> petern: but is it ipv6? :p
19:30:39 <petern> it is internally, but you can't reach it
19:37:58 <DorpsGek> frosch123: darkvater was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 22 hours, 51 minutes, and 40 seconds ago: <Darkvater> see ya guys
19:47:17 <frosch123> "Cost per overbuilt tile when building" <- how do you want to overbuild airports?
19:47:31 <orudge> uk.binaries.openttd.org, eh? well, I could provide a us.binaries.openttd.org!
19:48:42 <orudge> and perhaps a de.binaries.openttd.org, depending on disk spae usage
19:49:25 <orudge> how up-to-date is this mirror of yours, petern? it doesn't even seem to have 0.7.0...
19:50:03 <petern> truebrain needs to synchronise it, see
19:50:13 <orudge> I wonder if somebody is hogging bandwidth.
19:50:22 <Prof_Frink> Heh. The binary says binary.
19:53:04 <Rubidium> I guess TB has disabled the mirroring for your server or so
19:53:44 <Prof_Frink> :o a UFO! Is it after my tracks or trucks?
19:54:24 <orudge> hmm, 7.10MB/s from petern's server, compared to 9.53MB/s from the Netherlands
19:54:32 <orudge> need a bigger file really
19:55:05 <Prof_Frink> Download Destiny of the Daleks! Then send it to me!
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19:55:14 <orudge> 9.28MB/s with a bigger file on petern's server
19:55:26 <orudge> compared to 9.81MB/s on the official server
19:55:29 <orudge> close enough not to matter, really
19:55:48 *** Blooddly was kicked by orudge (we'll pas)
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19:55:54 <Prof_Frink> Gravity bandwidth!
19:56:15 <orudge> 10 hops to the official binaries server, 11 to petern's! pfft!
19:56:51 <Prof_Frink> As opposed to quid.co.uk
19:57:31 <Rubidium> petern: should I enable the mirroring to uk.binaries.openttd.org again?
19:57:51 <orudge> Rubidium: how does one go about becoming a mirror, and how much disk space and bandwidth is mirroring likely to use, could I enquire?
19:58:26 <Rubidium> lotsa diskspace for sure
19:59:05 <Rubidium> it's currently 16 GB
19:59:31 <petern> but yeah, you can start mirroring Rubidium :D
19:59:39 <Rubidium> but it'll keep growing by a few MB a day (sizeof(nightly-source.tar.bz2))
19:59:44 <Rubidium> and when a release is made
19:59:45 <petern> now, why is this bonding shit not working on one server :(
19:59:53 <orudge> well, I can offer you a us.binaries.openttd.org
20:00:49 <Prof_Frink> why is -source on binaries. ?
20:00:51 <Rubidium> I guess TB really should start a round robin for binaries.openttd.org ;)
20:01:08 <orudge> hmm, I have roughly 1.5TB of bandwidth to spare on that server, too
20:01:10 <Rubidium> Prof_Frink: cause some people dislike subversion
20:01:15 <orudge> so I imagine an OpenTTD mirror should be no problem ;)
20:01:19 <orudge> Rubidium: think he more means the name ;)
20:02:01 <Rubidium> orudge: nah, we're only doing 0.5 TB a month and for this month LW expects near 0.9 TB
20:02:20 <orudge> anyway, let me know Rubidium / TrueBrain / whoever how to go about doing the mirroring, and I shall
20:02:28 <Rubidium> Prof_Frink: because a .tar.bz2 is a binary file; uploading it as ascii would corrupt it
20:04:08 * orudge sets to work downloading binaries.openttd.org via FTP in text mode
20:08:11 <Rubidium> I'd reckon that rsync is more reliable ;)
20:09:01 <Rubidium> command not found: ps
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20:16:54 <TinoDidriksen> rsync is just wonderful...
20:19:28 <Nite_Owl> Alberth: Why do some people just not get it?
20:23:12 <Nite_Owl> actually we should have thrown Mr. Reality at him
20:26:37 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16034 /trunk/src/network/core/ (address.cpp address.h): -Fix: compile warnings generated by 64 bits MSVC.
20:28:22 <Nite_Owl> I say we throw Belugas at him as he has now invoked reality in that thread
20:28:37 <Alberth> Nite_Owl: for some reason, 'transfer' seems like the obvious choice with unloading for newbies. I don't understand why.
20:29:47 <Nite_Owl> it could be that they started playing with the cargo destination patch where that seems to be standard behavior
20:30:22 <Alberth> would newbies even know where to find cargodest?
20:32:00 <Rubidium> "hi im 7 yr old an ned pathc how do i"
20:35:51 <pavel1269> i have global pram .... new game .... go .... it get some value .... new game .... if in new game there is nowhere defined, what value is should be .... value is sitll from the prevorious game???
20:36:21 <pavel1269> too many mistypes :(
20:37:30 * Rubidium ponders whether pavel1269 was trying to pretend to be stupid/lame in typing
20:38:21 <pavel1269> Rubidium: unfornutately .... no :-(
20:38:57 <pavel1269> but i hope, you can understand that
20:39:05 <Nite_Owl> is there not an age limit on the forums
20:39:27 <Nite_Owl> I thought it was around 13 or so
20:39:29 <Rubidium> well, you succeeded in writing something down my very permissive lexer/parser barfs on
20:39:58 <orudge> "I thought the gays here r really helpful but guess u ppl want to make fun not to help."
20:40:02 <orudge> and the straights aren't helpful?
20:40:41 <pavel1269> we had once a guy ... 13 on server ... higher that limit? :-)
20:40:47 <Rubidium> uppl = micro parts per litre/liter?
20:41:58 <Prof_Frink> Rub I di ummmmm... doesn't.
20:42:55 <Nite_Owl> orudge: is there an age limit on the forums?
20:43:32 <orudge> yes, you have to be young enough to not be dead
20:43:37 <orudge> there is no upper or lower age limit as such, though
20:45:07 <Nite_Owl> poor wording on my part but you got what I meant
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20:46:52 <frosch123> hmm, I remember, I added frosh to my highlight list
20:47:42 <pavel1269> didnt want to distrupt you ;)
20:48:11 <frosch123> but I do not remember the century I did that
20:49:21 <orudge> unless he came back from the future
20:49:27 <orudge> or from the past, I guess
20:51:45 <pavel1269> whats the name of last film you saw oruge? :-)
20:51:55 * Rubidium slaps my maker for my sloppy multithreaded brain implementation
20:52:26 <pavel1269> you can be happy ... i have broken singlethreaded ..... :-)
20:55:06 <pavel1269> GenerateWorld() is called on NewGame ... and Not on load ... right?
20:56:25 <TrueBrain> [22:02] <orudge> anyway, let me know Rubidium / TrueBrain / whoever how to go about doing the mirroring, and I shall <- for that of course you need to contact me :p :p
20:56:52 <TrueBrain> and 'us' is welcome, yes :p
20:58:32 <TrueBrain> but of course now you are gone :p
20:59:22 <frosch123> be careful, he always comes from the past
21:00:07 <TrueBrain> but now I have to give a tour in ESXi :p
21:00:59 <TrueBrain> petern: concratz on finally managing to put it on 100 mbit ;) :p
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21:10:05 <Ant_LV> hello everybody. i got interesting idea to openttd. because now it's possible situation when one industry type is more than one time per town maybe it's possible to have something like "XXX Farm #1", "XXX Farm #2"? & "XXX mines" with oil rigs are cool
21:12:41 <frosch123> but don't confuse industry names with station namesw
21:13:14 <Ant_LV> if i knew c++ it'd be easier to do it ;-]
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21:24:12 <Roujin_> does the new widget system allow two widgets on top of each other, of which one is made invisible under certain circumstances (like it is done with the "old" system)?
21:25:40 *** Roujin_ is now known as Roujin
21:27:54 <Roujin> mph, then I made a really terrific choice with the content download window as a starting point for my venture into the new widget system...
21:28:35 <Roujin> "Select All" / "Select Updates" ..
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21:33:43 <Roujin> hmm, should I merge them into one button?
21:39:39 <petern> TrueBrain, and i'm home now :D
21:39:56 <TrueBrain> spend 7 hours in a DC :p
21:40:30 <petern> two of the rail mounting kits were busted
21:40:51 <petern> so i spent about an hour trying to repair them with only a huge screwdriver
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21:49:54 <petern> hmm, orudge appears to be getting 9MB/s
21:50:40 <petern> well, shocking, that's only 45 times faster than it was :o
21:50:52 <orudge> I was getting such speeds from JANET
21:54:55 <petern> 20:56 <@orudge> bucks.net, eh?
21:54:57 <TrueBrain> petern: I meant I spend 7 hours in a DC myself :)
21:55:12 <TrueBrain> and yeah .. we had issues with a rail too ..
21:55:20 <TrueBrain> somehow those things never do what you want :p
21:55:52 <orudge> petern: you had not previously revealed the name, as far as I am aware
21:56:47 <petern> a traceroute always gave that away
21:58:44 <petern> heh, technically it's 200Mbit/s now
21:59:51 <petern> although eth0 is mostly used. hmm
22:00:21 <TrueBrain> petern: do you know which public key I gave you for binaries transfer? :)
22:00:26 <TrueBrain> (what user has signed it? :p)
22:00:49 <TrueBrain> and you should make me a mirror.html file :p
22:02:30 <TrueBrain> Tomorrow ... I am going to document mirror-support :)
22:03:30 <petern> gone up a lot with the last sync :D
22:03:37 <petern> i assume it doesn't take too long now
22:03:59 <Rubidium> petern: off by a factor 1024?
22:05:38 <petern> ah, 40Mbit/s spike, heh
22:06:43 <Rubidium> aren't hdd units in blocks of 512?
22:07:10 <petern> hdd manufacturer units, i mean
22:10:16 <petern> 3.6GB of memory is used for cache :D
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22:12:36 <petern> hmm, looks like lacp is distributing traffic deterministicly
22:13:00 <petern> if there was more traffic it'd even out, i guess
22:13:31 <Roujin_> hm, I'm trying to redo the content download window with the new widget system, and cannot get it to resize.. any ideas what I could've done wrong?
22:14:28 <Rubidium> for one there's a custom resize handler that might mess up things
22:14:57 <Rubidium> also the network server list isn't fool proof (when switching direction)
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22:28:26 <petern> mdadm --manage /dev/md0 --add /dev/sda1
22:28:36 <TrueBrain> that I did type today
22:28:41 <TrueBrain> although sda1 was sdb1 ..
22:28:50 <petern> yeah, main reason i went to telehouse :D
22:28:55 <petern> to replace a failed drive, heh
22:28:56 <TrueBrain> so both disk in your RAID-1 are active :p
22:29:26 <TrueBrain> we did a disk dance :) That disk goes to there .. that disk to there ...
22:29:40 <TrueBrain> but always nice to get all servers back in their RAId-1 :)
22:30:17 <petern> old disk has odd looking marks on the circuit board
22:31:16 <petern> the sort of colours metal goes when it's heat treated
22:31:37 <TrueBrain> we had oxidation marks on one server (the outside)
22:31:38 <petern> drive temps are ~ 30°C
22:31:42 <TrueBrain> I wonder how water got in ....
22:32:05 <petern> no doubt you've seen the famous bucket in a machine room picture...
22:32:09 <TrueBrain> not really possible .. this DC uses air-ducts
22:32:29 <petern> /dev/sda: WDC WD5000AAKS-00A7B2: 30°C
22:32:32 <petern> /dev/sdb: WDC WD5000KS-00MNB0: 30°C
22:32:37 <petern> so much for getting the same model :p
22:33:07 <TrueBrain> I don't have hddtemp installed :p
22:33:25 <petern> my server's drives are now 25°C
22:33:32 <petern> but better than in its old location
22:34:25 <TrueBrain> the DC I am coming from shows 26C on the disks
22:35:50 <petern> whatever that means :p
22:36:22 <petern> nah, it's not that old
22:36:33 <petern> probably 2004/5 vintage
22:36:52 <petern> but dual xeon 2.4 is not exactly bad
22:37:18 <petern> one of the servers i pulled out today was pentium 200...
22:38:04 <TrueBrain> I remember my first work ahd a 'very fast server'
22:38:05 <Rubidium> quality over speed ;)
22:38:08 <TrueBrain> dual pentium something
22:38:16 <TrueBrain> then that was cool and WOW
22:38:21 <TrueBrain> now I laugh my ass off :p
22:38:33 <TrueBrain> it is already eastern, right?
22:38:39 <TrueBrain> so I can start eating this rabbit figure, right?
22:38:54 <Rubidium> no, Flappie ought to be eaten at Christmas
22:39:10 <TrueBrain> hmm ... I have id_dsa here, but not the .pub which should come with it
22:39:13 <TrueBrain> nwo that is annoying :)
22:39:46 <petern> let me give you one ;)
22:39:55 <TrueBrain> a .pub? Doesn't sound too useful :)
22:40:18 <petern> is if i wanted access, hehe
22:40:28 <petern> md4 : active raid1 sda6[2] sdb6[1] 479588288 blocks [2/1] [_U] [=>...................] recovery = 8.3% (39894400/479588288) finish=102.2min speed=71642K/sec
22:40:29 <TrueBrain> I can just give you access to my home PC
22:40:32 <TrueBrain> if that makes you really happy ...
22:40:40 <petern> gonna take a while, heh
22:40:52 <TrueBrain> you do need to wait till I get IPv6 subnet
22:40:57 <TrueBrain> as my ISP blocks all ports :(
22:42:03 <Sacro> TrueBrain: you can generate the .pub
22:42:24 <TrueBrain> Sacro: it is not a real issue .. it just makes you wonder, how you could have moved the .pub instead of copied
22:42:50 <petern> have to keep auto calibrating the monitor cos the timings drift
22:47:42 <TinoDidriksen> id_dsa ? That's a bit old fashioned.
22:49:27 <TinoDidriksen> Default these days is RSA
22:50:07 <TinoDidriksen> Haven't seen a DSA key for years, back on RH 7.3.
22:56:40 <Roujin_> woah, check tt-forums.net
22:57:15 <TrueBrain> DSS (DSA with SHA-1) is considered just as safe. Some people think that
22:57:16 <TrueBrain> DSA with RIPEMD-160 is as safe as DSS. The benefits and disadvantages
22:57:18 <TrueBrain> aren't security ones, but performance issues usually. For example, large
22:57:19 <TrueBrain> RSA keys produce much larger signatures than DSA keys of the same size.
22:58:46 <petern> hmm, speedy connection :D
23:00:05 <TrueBrain> US mirror is syncing as we speak :)
23:00:14 <TinoDidriksen> DSA keys are limited to 1024 bits, though, as per the standard. RSA can be any length, and defaults to 2048.
23:00:36 <petern> who needs sourceforge :D
23:01:19 <petern> if you make rsync exclude mirror.html, then we can just edit it as we please
23:02:02 <TrueBrain> petern: yeah, I had that in the beginning
23:02:06 <TrueBrain> don't remember what went wrong ...
23:02:28 <TrueBrain> and I just synced back :p
23:02:29 <petern> and it got wiped out before i could do anything with it :P
23:03:01 <TrueBrain> ah, yes, the problem was I needed a method to detect if the mirror.html file was at the other end at all
23:03:06 <TrueBrain> how can I do that ... hmm ...
23:03:16 <TinoDidriksen> rsync can produce a file listing.
23:03:37 <TinoDidriksen> ...by not specifying a destination.
23:03:44 <petern> how often do you set up a new mirror?
23:03:57 <TrueBrain> petern: not too often, but I am very lazy :)
23:04:05 <petern> might be simplest to skip it with rsync and touch the file "when" you create a new mirror :p
23:05:36 <TrueBrain> let me try something ...
23:10:08 <petern> i might end up with 4 postfix processes on this (other) server :s
23:11:15 <TrueBrain> it should be possible to exclude a file from syncing when it exists, or else sync it ..
23:13:52 <TrueBrain> okay, petern, that problem should not happen ever again :)
23:16:15 <TrueBrain> so make me a new mirror.html :p
23:17:10 <petern> it's WAY past my bedtime :s
23:24:29 *** const86 has joined #openttd
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