IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-04-10
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00:02:35 *** welshdragon was kicked by DorpsGek (is it better like this ?)
00:02:40 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd
00:11:09 <Patrick`> @kick Patrick` boobies
00:11:15 *** Patrick` was kicked by DorpsGek (boobies)
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00:11:25 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v Patrick`
00:11:34 <SmatZ> Patrick`: strange, works for me :-x
00:11:46 <Patrick`> I should totally be able to kick myself even though I'm not an "op"
00:12:26 * SmatZ resists to abuse his DorpsGek access :)
00:14:14 <TrueBrain> @kban 30 Patrick` as you wish
00:14:14 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Error: 30 is not in #openttd.
00:14:19 <TrueBrain> @kban Patrick` 30 as you wish
00:14:19 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +b *!~quassel@mikearthur.co.uk
00:14:20 *** Patrick` was kicked by DorpsGek (as you wish)
00:14:32 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: I have no problems abusing it
00:14:49 *** DorpsGek sets mode: -b *!~quassel@mikearthur.co.uk
00:15:38 <TrueBrain> if it was yorick, it would have read 3000 :p
00:15:49 <TrueBrain> Patric is going to find his bed .. good night!
00:17:40 *** DorpsGek sets mode: -b *!*Yorick@*.ip.telfort.nl
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00:33:16 <EoD> has anyone tried to set up aiccu with windows x64?
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02:37:30 <EoD> wish everyone a good night
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05:57:40 <bububu> 0432044b 043204410435 041304100412041d041e!!!!!!
05:57:57 <bububu> 043104430431044304310443
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07:20:04 <petern> SmatZ, so can you do your benchmarks on the actual performance of the game?
07:20:15 <petern> cos, you know, compile time is pretty irrelevant
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08:00:50 <petern> seems sshd on [::]:22 won't answer ipv4 requests
08:01:05 <petern> but vsftp/lighttpd on [::]:21/80 will answer
08:03:50 <Rubidium> those last two won't work the same on Windows though
08:07:23 <petern> is the server list still limited to one packet?
08:08:20 <Rubidium> though technically it should be no problem to reply in multiple packets
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08:36:25 <Azrael-> Nick is registered. :<
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08:41:37 <petern> hmm, and openttd doesn't response to ipv4 when on ::
08:43:30 <Rubidium> yeah, that's because it doesn't bind to IPv4
08:45:38 <Rubidium> 0.0.0.0 == IPv4, :: == IPv6, <nothing> == IPv4 and IPv6
08:47:26 <petern> and on linux the last one happens to look the same as ipv6, in netstat?
08:47:57 <Rubidium> no, it will have both an IPv4 and IPv6 socket opened
08:53:50 <petern> tcp6 0 0 :::80 :::* LISTEN 19721/lighttpd
08:54:49 <Rubidium> yeah, but I've disabled that 'feature'
09:00:46 <petern> is there a ... reason to disable the feature?
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09:02:06 <Rubidium> yeah, Microsoft doesn't support that feature
09:02:50 <Rubidium> I rather have it behave the same on ALL platforms; makes it easier to test, debug and such
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09:04:05 <petern> how do i listen on both ipv4 and ipv6?
09:04:36 <Rubidium> i.e. set server_bind_id to nothing
09:05:26 <petern> so there's no current way of explicitly listing addresses & ports to use
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09:06:01 <Rubidium> the config file doesn't handle that yet
09:06:22 <Rubidium> though internally the code can bind to basically anything you want
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09:07:46 <petern> hmm, master server lists only the ipv6 address
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09:09:27 <Rubidium> yeah, fixing something broke something else, but I'm working on fixing that too ;)
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09:23:48 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16007 /trunk/src/network/core/ (address.cpp address.h): -Fix (r16004): when we want to bind to both IPv4 and IPv6, make the master socket do that too; too bad getaddrinfo can't handle binding to any address on any port at the same time :(
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09:35:17 <petern> 2665 petern 20 0 221m 221m 43m S 0.0 43.9 10:43.83 firefox-bin
09:35:21 <petern> 3250 petern 20 0 204m 204m 17m S 3.0 40.6 0:10.32 qsynth
09:35:24 <petern> 32189 petern 20 0 21272 20m 3464 S 0.7 4.1 3:57.80 jackd
09:35:27 <petern> i could do with more memory
09:44:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r16008 /trunk/src/music_gui.cpp: -Fix (r15808): Unswap swapped music selection panels.
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10:01:04 <TrueBrain> morning lovely people
10:02:04 <Rubidium> hello person living in UTC ;)
10:02:29 <petern> it's still morning in BST land too
10:03:40 <petern> Rubidium, what if i want to be awkward and use a different port for different IPs? :D
10:04:24 <Rubidium> then you have to rewrite quite a bit more
10:04:57 <Rubidium> especially the part that advertises
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10:21:28 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r16009 /trunk/src/music_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Simplifying some variable assignments.
10:25:03 <TrueBrain> I don't like this 1600N revision numbering ..
10:26:00 <TrueBrain> I need to wait 4 weeks before I can request a subnet at SixXS .. sucks ...
10:26:33 <petern> i can give you one but it'd be unrouted :p
10:26:53 <TrueBrain> it turns out my university eats IPv6 in IPv4 packets
10:27:01 <TrueBrain> so I need IPv6 in UDP in IPv4 :(
10:27:27 <TrueBrain> they have a very big firewall in place for student homes
10:27:58 <TrueBrain> and petern: in fact I should be able to use a subnet from yours, if I could configure the 6to4 endpoint to know it too :p
10:28:05 <TrueBrain> (as IPv6 for the rest is kind of auto-training :p)
10:29:01 <TrueBrain> Teredo is nice btw .. allows IPv6 for everyone in a relative simple way
10:29:06 <TrueBrain> (no registration, no nothing)
10:29:30 <TrueBrain> your connectivity is only a bit unstable (you never know where the reply will come from, rarely the same 6to4 gateway)
10:29:40 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r16010 /trunk/src/music_gui.cpp: -Cleanup: Declare variables at first use.
10:29:48 <Alberth> TrueBrain: is this better?
10:30:02 <TrueBrain> Alberth: why you ask me?
10:30:16 <petern> once i get that ipv6-capable firmware for my borders...
10:30:21 <TrueBrain> Alberth: yes, thank you :)
10:30:21 <petern> THEN I WILL RULE THE WORLD
10:30:26 <Alberth> (12:25:12) TrueBrain: I don't like this 1600N revision numbering .. <- that's why
10:30:28 <TrueBrain> petern: ghehehehehehe :)
10:32:37 <Alberth> petern: didn't you see the 'Pinky and the brain' cartoons?
10:32:47 <TrueBrain> I laughed my ass off :)
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10:39:12 <petern> 3573 petern 20 0 101m 74m 17m S 2.0 14.8 3:10.23 arora
10:39:17 <petern> bit better than firefox
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11:02:20 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r16011 /trunk/src/music_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Extracting widget number enums from the window classes.
11:03:54 <jonty-comp> good god, there are servers that still run 0.5.3
11:04:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r16012 /trunk/src/music/ (dmusic.cpp extmidi.cpp os2_m.cpp qtmidi.cpp): -Codechange: Code style clean up.
11:04:13 <jonty-comp> I assume someone's just set them running and forgotten about them for... what, two years now?
11:04:58 <petern> oop, arora locked up :(
11:05:30 <TrueBrain> jonty-comp: in some dungeon hidden between rocks :p
11:05:43 <jonty-comp> The server list on openttd.org should have a little icon with the lock/grf icons to say it's ipv6 :D
11:05:56 <TrueBrain> jonty-comp: make me an IPv6 logo :p
11:06:24 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r16013 /trunk/src/music_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Add nested widgets to music windows.
11:06:57 <petern> it does it every time :s
11:07:05 <petern> going to servers.openttd.org locks it up :(
11:08:14 <TrueBrain> so don't go there :)
11:09:07 <TrueBrain> oh yeah, client-count was wrong, I needed to fix that ..
11:18:36 <TrueBrain> Servers registered as on 2009-04-10 11:18:16 UTC. There are 147 clients, 177 IPv4 servers and 1 IPv6 servers.
11:23:03 <jonty-comp> it is rather small
11:23:05 <TrueBrain> sorry, it is true! :)
11:23:11 <jonty-comp> but I don't know what dimensions you would like :P
11:23:16 <TrueBrain> the same as the others
11:23:32 <TrueBrain> I wouldn't know their dimensions
11:23:33 <jonty-comp> it could do with being a few px wider
11:24:03 <frosch123> "IP" needs tweaking, "v6" looks ok :)
11:24:17 <jonty-comp> the IP is a bit light
11:24:21 * jonty-comp copied the GRF one somewhat
11:25:05 <TrueBrain> anyway, I need to think about it anyway .. as you have IPv4 only, IPv6 only and IPv4/IPv6 servers
11:25:09 <TrueBrain> not sure how to represent those
11:25:45 <jonty-comp> although there probably won't be that many IPv6-only servers
11:26:04 * jonty-comp whistles innocently
11:27:54 <jonty-comp> there, I made the IP a lot darker
11:31:03 *** lobstar is now known as lobster
11:34:39 <petern> jonty-comp! server error!
11:35:19 <jonty-comp> oh, I moved the image
11:35:40 <petern> well you have an error document set up
11:35:44 <jonty-comp> for some reason it just 500s when it 404s
11:35:50 <petern> so it gives the 500 instead
11:35:51 <jonty-comp> possibly because of that
11:36:00 <jonty-comp> I never remember setting the ErrorDocument thing though
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11:36:47 <petern> i think adding icons for the lot would just add clutter
11:37:14 <jonty-comp> I only really made the other ones to see what it looked like
11:37:29 <petern> "ipv4/ipv6" and "ipv6 only"
11:37:41 <jonty-comp> I suppose it could have an "ipv6-capable" icon that's, say, white and an "ipv6-only" icon that's red or something
11:37:49 <SpComb> just a "v6" in a slightly rounded box
11:37:57 <jonty-comp> this is also quite possible
11:38:21 <TrueBrain> oeh, I would drive that :)
11:38:25 <SpComb> and no icon at all for v4 only
11:38:40 <jonty-comp> certainly I think v4 only doesn't need an icon
11:38:52 <jonty-comp> that would just confuse people who don't know what an IP is
11:38:59 <SpComb> and "v10" for v4 + v6!
11:40:05 <TrueBrain> for every IP you have online you add those thingies
11:40:07 <TrueBrain> so you can have v12
11:47:23 <jonty-comp> petern: not bad at all
11:47:46 <jonty-comp> although I don't know how it fits in with other icons
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11:50:36 <petern> 12:07 <@petern> going to servers.openttd.org locks it up :(
11:50:41 <petern> so i can't see them :p
11:51:37 <petern> they're sort of blurry
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11:55:21 <jonty-comp> see how I completely copied the GRF one :P
11:56:13 <welshdragon> hmm, what about having a drop - down that lets you choose whether you want to see IPV4 or IPV6 servers?
11:56:44 <jonty-comp> but that kind of thing isn't really what the web serverlist is for, in my opinion
11:57:06 <jonty-comp> I would much like to have some kind of filter system in the in-game server menu (although that doesn't show v6 for people who don't have it anyway)
11:57:54 <welshdragon> that's what I meant :)
11:58:58 <jonty-comp> mm, fish and chips time
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12:17:11 <Zolorado> I want to put bold font to the openttd
12:17:28 <Zolorado> Arial Black is too bold
12:17:53 <Zolorado> how can I put in a Arial in bold?
12:19:23 <glx> indeed you can use any font :)
12:21:35 <glx> and tell us what is your OS
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12:24:24 <Zolorado> yes, works, but not bolt for me
12:24:47 <glx> are sure you modified the right openttd.cfg?
12:25:35 <Zolorado> but I wat to change it
12:27:32 <Zolorado> with some type, I get a message: ...FreeType reported error 0x1 openttd
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12:30:04 <Zolorado> Verdana bold works fine
12:31:39 <Zolorado> I got error message with simple 'Arial'
12:31:49 <Zolorado> ...FreeType reported error 0x1 openttd...
12:32:31 <glx> it says requested 'arial' using 'Arial Regular'
12:32:57 <glx> and for 'arial bold' it uses 'Arial Bold'
12:35:10 <Zolorado> 'arial' doesn't works, 'Arial Bold' isn't bold
12:37:30 <glx> tells you what you requested and what openttd uses
12:37:52 <Zolorado> Arial Bold insteed of Arial Bold
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12:39:04 <Zolorado> anyway, verdaan bold works
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12:39:31 <Zolorado> (simple 'verdana' doesn't, don't know why)
12:40:26 <Zolorado> verdana bold is OK for me
12:40:40 <Zolorado> thanks for your help!
12:41:01 <glx> arial bold in 10 doesn't look bold, but my screenshots were with size 11
12:42:08 <glx> so play a little with *_size
12:42:57 <Zolorado> where is small size in the game?
12:43:28 <petern> we so need this gui stuff finished off ;)
12:44:01 <glx> petern: won't solve font selection magically
12:44:35 <petern> to allow larger font sizes to be used
12:44:46 <petern> arial bold fails for me
12:44:51 <petern> i don't have arial installed
12:45:31 <glx> install office and you'll have arial unicode
12:47:00 <petern> it's not apt-gettable :/
12:49:23 <Zolorado> the small sized text is unreadable, which type do you use?
12:53:59 <glx> any font is too small in 6 ;)
12:56:11 <petern> ttf-mscorefonts-installer
12:57:08 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16014 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 3 dirs): -Feature(-ish): allow binding to several IPs; [network]:server_bind_ip doesn't exist anymore. Add the IPs/hostnames to [server_bind_addresses]
13:19:51 * petern wonders how to stop abuse of distant station join... short of turning it off
13:21:37 <Alberth> reduce effectivness as stations are further apart (add some time-interval for internal transport, add some cost?)
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14:06:17 <Ammler> using the closest station tiles to messure the distance for payment.
14:06:23 <Ammler> instead of station signs
14:07:51 * Ammler remembers the talk around Superbus ;-)
14:16:59 <TrueBrain> wow .. we might get a native IPv6 at LeaseWeb after all ...
14:18:20 <TrueBrain> because some people there are just very nice and friendly :)
14:18:52 <petern> it sounds like you need to time your conversing properly
14:18:58 <petern> some days you get 'yeah we can do that'
14:19:02 <petern> other days you get 'no we don't do ipv6'
14:19:07 <petern> like different people on shift :p
14:19:24 <TrueBrain> well ... in this case you need to get an email from a person who reads the forums, and knows a way in ;)
14:20:42 <Rubidium> and then you start forwarding mails between employees to facilitate their "can do" vs "can't do" game ;)
14:21:09 <TrueBrain> and then they tell you that you didn't do something, which you did, but the can'ts were winning from the cans ..
14:21:17 <TrueBrain> but ... finally progress ;)
14:33:48 *** kingj is now known as KingJ
14:37:16 <Ammler> wouldn't it be possible just to mesure the used station_spread of a station and cut that from the distance?
14:38:17 <Ammler> that would also give penalties to people using distrant join to catch a town for more pax.
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14:59:53 <EoD> i think i have some problems with the computer here...
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15:12:20 <TrueBrain> --- ipv6.google.com ping statistics ---
15:12:22 <TrueBrain> 10 packets transmitted, 10 received, 0% packet loss, time 9031ms
15:12:23 <TrueBrain> rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 8.047/8.135/8.246/0.059 ms
15:12:46 <EoD> that can't be true! wait a minute
15:13:24 <EoD> --- ipv6.google.com ping statistics ---
15:13:26 <EoD> 8 packets transmitted, 8 received, 0% packet loss, time 7033ms
15:13:28 <EoD> rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 9.180/9.496/9.728/0.195 ms
15:14:10 <EoD> i don't get below 9... You won! Congratz!
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15:16:54 <TrueBrain> hmm .. you can't assign an ipv6 to a network alias? (secondary, or how ever you want to call them)
15:17:20 <SpComb> interface aliases have been deprecated since ages
15:17:37 <TrueBrain> it just makes things more clear in 'ifconfig' for vservers ...
15:20:07 <TrueBrain> okay, native IPv6 enabled
15:20:36 <EoD> rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 16.361/16.477/16.541/0.064 ms (from native me to native openttd)
15:21:49 <EoD> i've to change my DNS, too...
15:23:04 <petern> you already know what openttd's native addresses are?
15:27:33 <TrueBrain> petern: he has a special mirror for that
15:28:54 <TrueBrain> DNS update complete
15:29:16 <petern> heh, 6 instead of 7 hops
15:29:24 <TrueBrain> petern: and 3 hidden hops
15:29:49 <petern> so it's still on a tunnel? hah
15:29:59 <TrueBrain> I means: 3 hidden hops less
15:30:14 <TrueBrain> this now is native ;)
15:31:50 <TrueBrain> and now in theory we can bind 'hidden' services to an IPv6 ;)
15:31:56 <TrueBrain> (as we have 65534 left :p)
15:33:15 <TrueBrain> well, we have a few NAT stuff running at openttd.org, because we didn't want to waste IPv4s on it :p
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15:45:14 <petern> i wonder how many hidden hops there are for the adsl tunnel
15:45:27 <TrueBrain> you really want to know? :p
15:45:37 <petern> shed loads probably :)
15:46:47 <Azrael_> Hmm... OK, I have a four-track station and I'm using presignals to work it.
15:47:10 <Azrael_> Are there any advantages in going entry-2*combo-4*exit instead of just entry-4*exit?
15:50:17 *** Maarten is now known as Guest332
15:50:22 <Ammler> Azrael_: the entry signal will get green faster with combos
15:50:43 <Azrael_> I thought it would, but the distance between the combos and the entry seems trivial.
15:50:47 <jonty-comp> hmm, I guess my DNS hasn't updated yet
15:51:22 <Ammler> depense on the station design...
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16:04:44 <TrueBrain> can you stirke something on the forum? (text)
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16:16:48 <petern> think i've seen other people do it:p
16:17:30 <Alberth> I can only find only underline in the BBcodes
16:21:07 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: alberth * r16015 /trunk/src/transparency_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Completing the TransparencyToolbarWidgets enum.
16:24:24 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: alberth * r16016 /trunk/src/transparency_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Moving the TransparencyToolbarWidgets outside the window class.
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16:31:40 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: alberth * r16017 /trunk/src/transparency_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Added nested widgets to transparency settings window.
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16:55:43 <Azrael_> How do I use in-game chat?
16:56:22 <frosch123> ... but not too hard
16:56:43 <TrueBrain> it might hurt your finger, yes yes
16:57:30 <Azrael_> thanks for the safety warning
16:57:34 <Azrael_> almost had a nasty accident
16:58:39 <EoD> help deployment of ipv6 and donate to openttd!
16:59:18 <glx> you can also use the client list to opent chat box
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17:16:58 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16018 /trunk/src/ (ini.cpp settings.cpp): -Fix (r16014): properly escape IPv6 style ([::]) addresses so they aren't seen as new groups.
17:23:36 <taisteluorava> Hey, i got gui3.tar in datafolder to get better looking toolbar GUI, but what parameter i need to add to openttd shortcut to allow it?
17:30:23 <frosch123> more likely though -b32bpp-optimized :)
17:31:30 <taisteluorava> it's not working :/
17:31:35 <glx> and -b32bpp-anim if the cpu is good enough
17:32:24 <glx> hmm how are named your original files?
17:32:45 <glx> ie do you have dos or windows data files?
17:49:52 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: translators * r16019 /trunk/src/lang/ (estonian.txt turkish.txt unfinished/serbian.txt):
17:49:52 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-04-10 17:49:32
17:49:52 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: estonian - 11 changed by kristjans (11)
17:49:52 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: serbian - 50 fixed by etran (50)
17:49:52 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: turkish - 2 fixed by Emin (2)
17:59:41 <Xaroth> dihedral: got things to work, hrr hrr
18:00:01 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: you are scary
18:02:02 <petern> oh, damn, forgot makedepend :(
18:02:07 <Xaroth> oi, no dissin mah laptop! :P
18:02:16 * Xaroth on crappy laptop as well
18:04:49 * Xaroth stabs said laptop's wifi
18:04:58 <TrueBrain> how do you stab a wifi?
18:05:45 <petern> this laptop is wired, and connected to a monitor, keyboard, mouse, etc...
18:05:49 <Xaroth> bastard thing keeps disconnecting wireless
18:06:20 <petern> the screen on it is shit, the keyboard is shit, the trackpad is shit...
18:06:45 <TrueBrain> go sit closer to the station
18:07:49 <petern> cpu fan's working extra hard during this compile
18:07:57 <petern> it's up to saveload though, so not so bad
18:10:41 <taisteluorava> +glx, have windows data files ofc, but it doesent work :/
18:12:16 <taisteluorava> i have also unzipped those in \data\sprites\openttd and \data\sprites\trg1r
18:13:23 <taisteluorava> openGFX toolbar GUI look is just too horrible
18:13:26 <Xaroth> glx: tried every channel
18:14:25 <Ant_LV> btw who were authors of original gfx?
18:14:29 <frosch123> taisteluorava: aren't the opengfx sprites the same as the newgui stuff?
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18:15:18 <taisteluorava> i speak about 32bit gui
18:15:45 <frosch123> yes, but I thought opengfx just sampled the existing 32bpp gui sprites to 8bpp
18:17:15 <Xaroth> Ant_LV: the original GFX? those were from Transport Tycoon Deluxe :P
18:17:31 <Ant_LV> who were authors of them?
18:17:50 <Xaroth> google "Transport Tycoon Deluxe team" ?
18:17:52 *** eQualizer has joined #openttd
18:18:55 <Ant_LV> maybe u can do this faster?:P
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18:20:12 <THUNDERHORSE> I am trying to make my ships to unload all cargo in a station
18:20:18 <THUNDERHORSE> but when they finish unloading
18:20:29 <THUNDERHORSE> they start loading again, and take everything back
18:20:51 <Mark> use a "no loading" order
18:21:08 <Mark> your orders are probably "unload and take cargo"
18:21:13 <THUNDERHORSE> i can find only no unload
18:21:24 <THUNDERHORSE> and everything has "take cargo"
18:21:49 <Xaroth> there are some dropdown menus on de buttons
18:21:52 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r16020 /trunk/src/console_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Use actual font height for console output instead of fixed value.
18:21:57 <Xaroth> try looking under the 'full load' dropdown
18:22:02 <Mark> no loading is in the same collum as full load
18:22:22 <THUNDERHORSE> yes, i know there are drop down menus' but every option has "take cargo"
18:24:17 <frosch123> haha, taisteluorava, now I know: you said you used opengfx. well the 32bpp gui is _still_ coded in a way it only applies to original graphics
18:24:39 <taisteluorava> ok, i thought that is possibe
18:24:46 <Ant_LV> & q: with new conditional orders is it possible to set 50% load?
18:25:03 <frosch123> it is possible, but not the way the 32bpp people did it up to now
18:25:56 <frosch123> though if you extracted the tar, you can rename the tgr1r dir to the name of the matching opengfx file
18:26:31 <petern> what is the method of being base graphics agnostic?
18:26:51 <frosch123> by using a newgrf with actiona?
18:27:03 <Ammler> hmm, wouldn't it be possible to add a symlink to the tar?
18:27:09 <frosch123> or by using an .obg
18:27:33 <frosch123> yes, symlinks are also supported. they were meant for dos/windows, but even that they did not manage yet :/
18:30:37 <taisteluorava> hm, pretty strange. I tested with normal ttd graphics, but it still use openGFX toolbar GUI
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18:33:31 <Ammler> frosch123: maybe, they just don't know, they are mainly artists than coders ;-)
18:35:14 <Ammler> taisteluorava: the opengfx gui is "cloned" from 32bpp, afaik
18:35:28 *** TinoDid is now known as TinoDidriksen
18:37:13 <petern> heh, my svn+ssh is via ipv6 :D
18:38:39 <TrueBrain> petern: as it should! :p
18:40:27 <taisteluorava> hm, but why openGFX toolbar GUI is still there when i m using a original graphics
18:40:51 <frosch123> did you also load the opengfx newgrfs?
18:41:42 <taisteluorava> none of openGFX newGRG is loaded
18:42:50 <Ammler> well, that is loaded, if it is in the data dir, you wouldn need to remove it there, afaik
18:43:35 <taisteluorava> oh shit, it was loadet, i'l try figure it out
18:44:04 <Ammler> 32bpp people should use grfs :-)
18:44:48 <taisteluorava> yeah, its gone now, problem was that, somehow openGFX toolbar GUI enabled itself in newGRF ^^
18:46:14 <taisteluorava> but now i would like to get 32bpp toolbar GUI to work with openGFX graphics. It work with original, and looks nice.
18:46:44 <taisteluorava> "[21:25] <frosch123> though if you extracted the tar, you can rename the tgr1r dir to the name of the matching opengfx file" hm?
18:47:09 <taisteluorava> i have those GUI png's in tgr1r folder
18:47:26 <frosch123> rename the "trg1r" folder to "opengfx1r"
18:47:54 <frosch123> then start ottd again and activate opengfx :)
18:48:10 <taisteluorava> yeah, that work's : D
18:49:20 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
18:55:51 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r16021 /trunk/src/console_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Offset current console output by (width of "] ")+5 pixels instead of 5+5 pixels.
18:57:42 <petern> there, console works properly with huge fonts ;)
18:58:06 <petern> sensible-size huge fonts
18:58:20 <petern> it flickers if it's too large
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19:15:17 <Trainjumper> anybody here who can help on openttd with the error message:
19:16:03 <Trainjumper> "train can not be build. To much vehicles in the game ..."
19:16:20 <Trainjumper> oder spricht hier jemand deutsch?
19:16:27 <TrueBrain> lets break down the message ...
19:16:32 <TrueBrain> you can't build any more trains
19:16:36 <TrueBrain> as ... there are too many vehicles in the game
19:16:50 <Trainjumper> yes. that's the message
19:16:59 <Trainjumper> I've that also had before
19:17:17 <TrueBrain> getting that with 0.7.0 is a nice archievement btw
19:17:26 <Trainjumper> but after a change in the patch settings it was possible to go on ...
19:17:44 <EoD> how much trains to you have?
19:18:02 <TrueBrain> but Trainjumper, what now is your question in this?
19:18:20 <Trainjumper> I have 2950 trains
19:18:39 <Trainjumper> how can I build more trains?
19:18:47 <EoD> what's the maximum of trains you are allowed to build at your server?
19:19:03 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 10.8474576271
19:19:10 <TrueBrain> I guess your trains are 11 long ;)
19:19:46 <Trainjumper> some trains have 60 parts
19:21:13 <Trainjumper> what's about 32000?
19:22:03 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 21.6949152542
19:22:08 <TrueBrain> average length of 22 even :)
19:22:31 <Trainjumper> that might well be
19:22:31 <petern> solution: start a new game
19:22:41 <Trainjumper> average length about 22
19:22:41 <TrueBrain> Trainjumper: the game is limited to a maximum of 64000 'vehicles' (where an airplane has several vehicles, and each wagon is a vehicle .. so are several disasters)
19:22:47 <TrueBrain> you reached that limit
19:23:19 <EoD> Gratulation Trainjumper :)
19:23:27 <petern> i remember the days when that limit was possible, but it wasn't saved properly. or something like that.
19:23:37 <Ammler> [21:18] <Trainjumper> I have 2950 trains <-- woot, concratulation for that awesome pc
19:24:08 <Trainjumper> the simulation is still running
19:24:08 <TrueBrain> petern: I remember the day the limit was even smaller .. and things were a static array :p
19:24:27 <Ammler> do you have save available from?
19:24:29 <TrueBrain> I also remember I suggested dynamic arrays and got flamed ... but then I also remember that I did make dynamic arrays, and it got accepted .. so .. :p
19:25:07 <SpComb> Trainjumper: running... but very slowly? :P
19:25:26 <TrueBrain> and I also remember .. I said no sane person would ever reach 32000 (which it was back than) in a SP
19:25:35 <TrueBrain> I guess it can down the books as a Bill Gates comment :p
19:25:47 <TrueBrain> with the note that I really did say it :p (Bill Gates never did)
19:26:00 <Ammler> never saw a save with 3k running trains
19:26:45 <Wolf01> you should put it on bananas, so everybody can see your work
19:26:46 <TrueBrain> never saw anyone with enough time to create it :p
19:27:06 * EoD is also interested in the savegame...
19:27:09 <TrueBrain> apples are also fine
19:27:13 <SpComb> maybe with judicious use of cloning trains
19:27:39 <TrueBrain> Wolf01: BaNaNaS is not for savegames ;)
19:27:46 <TrueBrain> the forums is a better place for that :)
19:27:55 <petern> it would need to be BaNaNaSaS for that
19:28:03 <TrueBrain> petern: we considered it :p
19:28:07 <Ammler> I would expect some "depot buffers".
19:30:50 <Trainjumper> how to upload to BaNaNaS?
19:31:05 <TrueBrain> Trainjumper: don't bother; upload to the forums
19:31:21 <Trainjumper> Ok. I'll try that
19:32:50 <SpComb> BaNaNas needs to grow some kind of heightmap/scenario preview
19:33:04 <TrueBrain> (design and upload wise)
19:40:33 <glx> <Wolf01> just rename it to scn <-- will remove vehicles
19:40:49 <Wolf01> only if you open it with the editor
19:41:16 <glx> scenario editor removes companies
19:41:26 <Wolf01> or start a new game with it as scenario
19:41:41 <Ammler> we used scenario editor for wwottdgd
19:41:54 <Ammler> hmm, maybe that was patched too
19:42:15 <TinoDidriksen> Been possible to open saved games as scenarios since original TTDX.
19:42:37 <TrueBrain> nobody claimed that wasn't possible :)
19:43:17 <TinoDidriksen> Just cementing it isn't a new feature.
19:46:30 <TrueBrain> bah, no fun like this
19:46:36 <TrueBrain> well, nevermind then
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19:56:02 <Wolf01> ...erm sorry, wrong bridge
20:00:54 <Trainjumper> truebrain: There seems to be a problem with the upload
20:01:27 <TrueBrain> can't help you there
20:01:36 <TrueBrain> tt-forums is not managed by us :)
20:01:41 <Wolf01> te attachment size is 3mb
20:02:01 <Trainjumper> the file is 10 MB
20:02:09 <Trainjumper> seeM's to be to much
20:02:09 <Prof_Frink> Sacro: I've been climbing on Skaro.
20:04:16 <Trainjumper> wow. not possible to compress the game save ...
20:04:33 <Sacro> Trainjumper: you cannot compress that which is already compressed
20:04:35 <frosch123> it is already compressed :p
20:12:21 <Trainjumper> I'm just uploading it to bananas
20:12:40 <glx> and you say it runs fine with 2950 trains?
20:13:10 <Trainjumper> sometimes a little slow
20:19:02 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16022 /trunk/src/network/ (network.cpp network_func.h network_udp.cpp network_udp.h):
20:19:02 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: -Fix (r15159): sometimes the unregister "query" thread could be delayed so much
20:19:02 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: that the network stuff was already closed and the packet would never reach the
20:19:02 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: master server causing the server to appear online longer than necessary.
20:20:48 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16023 /trunk/src/fios.cpp: -Fix (r15615) [FS#2817]: 32 bpp sprites in tars would also be shown in the list of heightmaps.
20:37:19 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16024 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 5 dirs): -Codechange: harden string copying on places where it's possible
20:38:56 <petern> i just finished compiling :(
20:39:05 <TrueBrain> I thought you had such a speedy computer :p
20:39:22 <[wito]> Train signals on road/rail crossings?
20:39:23 <Rubidium> yeah and jonty-comp should stop changing his IP ;)
20:39:31 <jonty-comp> Rubidium: I only changed it once!
20:39:36 <jonty-comp> and it only changed from :1 to :2!
20:39:46 <jonty-comp> why, did it break something? :D
20:40:00 <TrueBrain> it broke the whole internet
20:40:02 <jonty-comp> well, openttd should use dns then. :P
20:40:03 <Rubidium> and you loaded an old game :(
20:40:03 <TrueBrain> it took hours to get it back!
20:40:15 <jonty-comp> I must've forgotten to save it
20:40:16 <Rubidium> jonty-comp: you can bind to dns names
20:40:24 * jonty-comp isn't so good at this whole server admin stuff
20:40:24 <petern> TrueBrain, yeah, my pc's in bits though :(
20:40:31 <petern> TrueBrain, so i'm back on the shitty laptop
20:40:32 <TrueBrain> petern: what happened?
20:40:45 <petern> sound connector on the motherboard broke, heh
20:40:52 <TrueBrain> who needs sounds anyway :p
20:41:09 * petern points at the midi keyboard next to him
20:41:25 <jonty-comp> there, I updated it to the latest revision
20:41:31 <petern> if the screen is too small, the intro menu doesn't show
20:41:46 <TrueBrain> don't make the screen too small :p
20:42:01 <TrueBrain> solutions are always so easy ....
20:42:08 <Rubidium> ofcourse you can't see it on a 0 by 0 screen
20:42:11 <jonty-comp> that is one small screen
20:42:51 <petern> too small being 840x350
20:42:52 <Prof_Frink> Depends. If that's 0x0ly, accurate to 0dp it could be rather large.
20:43:04 <petern> which isn't actually that small
20:43:25 <petern> it's because it assumes the window it opened is the size it asked for
20:44:13 <petern> it's probably SDL being crap
20:44:26 <petern> because it returns width and height after te SetVideoMode call
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20:49:05 <glx> makedepend is really stupid
20:49:35 <Sacro> glx doesn't understand it
20:49:39 <Sacro> therefore it must be stupid :p
20:49:44 <glx> sometimes .h change and doesn't trigger a recompile
20:49:47 <TrueBrain> but it is better than a gcc round ;)
20:50:01 <jonty-comp> hmm, so my server is listening on both now apparently
20:50:20 <glx> TrueBrain: max file crashes makedepend ;)
20:50:30 <TrueBrain> glx: so make an alternative makedepend :)
20:50:39 <TrueBrain> it would be more than happy ... in the general GNU community :p
20:51:13 <glx> but the worse thing is on one repo it worked correctly
20:51:46 <frosch123> TrueBrain: makedepend keeps failing regulary on ottd code for a few weeks. everyone would be happy if you find the breaking revision, and then the cause :)
20:52:10 <TrueBrain> frosch123: makedepend is broken by design, a known issue
20:52:25 <frosch123> but it worked fine up to a few weeks ago
20:52:32 <TrueBrain> many people requested fixes .. but ...
20:52:45 <TrueBrain> as that is the max-file limit :p
20:53:04 <frosch123> no, only since march
20:53:30 <petern> ah, so it's not just me? :)
20:53:39 <TrueBrain> okay, you got a problem description for me?
20:54:36 <jonty-comp> aha, I have to put the [server_bind_addresses] bit now
20:54:39 <frosch123> use clean trunk of a certain revision, up it to another revision, compile it, and get observe linking to fail because of missing symbols, which is then fixable by make clean
20:54:55 *** KingJ is now known as kingj
20:55:00 <Trainjumper> Truebrain: I uploaded the saved game with 2950 trains to my own server space. you can find it in the forum. good night.
20:55:02 <TrueBrain> so you mean that certain .cpp files don't get recompiled?
20:55:28 <petern> i'd say "some" rather than certain
20:55:39 <petern> dunno if it's a specific set of files, heh
20:55:46 <TrueBrain> got 2 revisions between that happens?
20:56:29 <TrueBrain> (which is kind of important ;)
20:56:40 <jonty-comp> or something like that
20:56:48 * jonty-comp shall work it out in the morning
20:57:21 <glx> hmm from r16020 or r16021
20:57:54 <glx> anyway the problem is nested includes ;)
20:57:59 <TrueBrain> you remember the symbol error?
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20:58:27 <glx> but I forgot in which cpp it was
20:58:36 <TrueBrain> I know, no problem :)
20:59:04 <glx> our code is full of indirect includes
20:59:17 <Powerek38> hi! is there any way of using the heightmap as a game map without creating a scenario?
20:59:18 <TrueBrain> should never be a problem
20:59:54 <glx> because it assumes many things
20:59:58 * jonty-comp idly wonders if bananas ingame uses ipv6
21:00:04 <TrueBrain> jonty-comp: it does
21:00:23 <frosch123> Powerek38: "play heightmap" in main menu?
21:00:44 <Powerek38> frosch123: silly me :)
21:00:51 <glx> frosch123: nah too easy ;)
21:01:50 * petern removes jonty-comp's ipv4 connectivity
21:01:58 <TrueBrain> k, here makedepend does its job perfectly
21:03:38 <TrueBrain> but I doubt I run a vanilla makedepend :)
21:04:07 <glx> my makedepend is a custom build too ;)
21:04:12 <TrueBrain> vanilla makedepend indeed runs into max-files limit
21:04:29 <TrueBrain> you can detect that by running 'make depend'
21:04:33 <TrueBrain> it should NOT error out with error code 1
21:04:37 <TrueBrain> (which is normally ignored)
21:05:11 <TrueBrain> so makedepend hasn't been working for .. well .. what ever revision required more than 1024 open files :)
21:05:22 <TrueBrain> (and yes, makedepend opens ALL files it is indexing)
21:06:14 <TrueBrain> but glx, if you patched that, it should work correctly for you
21:06:46 <glx> sometimes it work, sometimes not (like it worked for 1 repo but failed for the 2 others)
21:08:37 <frosch123> TrueBrain: there are 338 cpp, 119 hpp and 314 h. How do you sum them up to more than 1024 ?
21:09:25 <TrueBrain> frosch123: the design of makedepend is flawed :)
21:09:37 <TrueBrain> you can't make it to stop trying to load your sys-include dir, for one
21:09:43 <TrueBrain> it keeps files open .. nobody understands
21:09:52 <TrueBrain> it managed to open the same file more than once ..
21:10:01 <TrueBrain> and X11 refuses to make an updated version ;) (well .. that is for good reasons :p)
21:10:18 <TrueBrain> but I wonder how hard it can be to script something for the goal of OpenTTD?
21:10:32 <TrueBrain> as we have very simple rules, and most of them are taken care of by Makefile
21:10:40 <glx> it should be doable with awk I think
21:10:54 <frosch123> it is quite easy to grep for '#include' and build a tree. but that would be *nix only solution :)
21:11:08 <TrueBrain> frosch123: for what other system would you like to do it? :p
21:11:14 <TrueBrain> we are talking 'make' only here :)
21:11:33 <TrueBrain> and as far as I know you can make .h files as rules, which depend on other .h files, in 'make'
21:11:45 <glx> and if a system can run our configure it should be able to run our script ;)
21:11:50 <TrueBrain> so .. grep each file for #include, put it in a file like: file.[oh]: include
21:11:55 <TrueBrain> and it should work .. I think )
21:12:36 <TrueBrain> just a bit agressive method I guess ;)
21:12:53 <TrueBrain> (it ignores #ifdefs and stuff)
21:12:59 <glx> if it's faster than gcc -M it's good I think
21:13:30 <TrueBrain> frosch123: minor problem: .cpp files are located in an other dir as .o files
21:13:32 <TrueBrain> on which you should depend
21:13:38 <TrueBrain> it is them you want to rebuild, not the .cpp files :p
21:14:32 <TrueBrain> but yes, I guess that should work just fine ...
21:15:15 <frosch123> but in that case: if one .h is newer than another .h it will continue rebuilding every .o that depends on the older one
21:15:25 <frosch123> so we cannot create rules for the .h
21:15:38 <TrueBrain> sorry, I don't follow :p
21:17:11 <frosch123> a.cpp includes b.h, b.h includes c.h. c.h is newer than b.h. If we tell the makefile that b.h depends on c.h, and a.cpp depends on a.h, it will detect that c.h is newer than b.h, and then updates b.h (which does nothing) and then a.o
21:17:30 <TrueBrain> yes, exactly what you want ..
21:17:52 <frosch123> well, but it will also do that if you run make again
21:18:11 <frosch123> because c.h is still newer than b.h
21:18:22 <TrueBrain> it doesn't change the time for such rules?
21:18:42 <TrueBrain> so .. either a @touch would work
21:18:44 <TrueBrain> but might be a bit nasty
21:18:47 <TrueBrain> you can also make a nice sed
21:18:55 <TrueBrain> which replaces all .h files with the set they depend on
21:19:00 <TrueBrain> run that N times over the list, and you are done ;)
21:19:02 <frosch123> no, @touch does not work either, because we have circular dependencies
21:19:18 <TrueBrain> euh .. circular deps can't be handled in general, can they? :)
21:19:33 <frosch123> we have to resolve the dependencies, so a.o depends on b.h and c.h
21:19:38 <TrueBrain> I believe it bails immedaitly :p
21:19:50 <TrueBrain> what I say: make for each .h a 'sed'
21:20:06 <TrueBrain> like: s/oldpool_func.h/oldpool_func.h oldpool.h/
21:20:23 <TrueBrain> but that only works one deep ;)
21:20:34 <SpComb> a directory called oldpool.h?
21:20:44 <TrueBrain> s/oldpool_func.h/oldpool_func@h oldpool.h/g
21:20:50 <TrueBrain> yes, SpComb, we talk about directories here
21:20:56 <TrueBrain> then you can run it 100 times
21:21:36 <TrueBrain> an other still valid solution is to put Makefile.dep in SVN, and make a precommit which checks if it is up-to-date
21:21:49 <TrueBrain> but I never liked that solution :)
21:22:01 <Rubidium> another one is writing your own makedep, like strgen ;)
21:22:12 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: you voluentering? :)
21:22:18 <frosch123> didn't we just discussed that?
21:22:30 <Rubidium> na, TB was talking about scripting
21:22:32 <TrueBrain> but I guess frosch123 practicly already did that ;)
21:22:43 <frosch123> no, I did that last weekend :p
21:23:15 <TrueBrain> SpComb: run --without-makedepend and enjoy
21:23:27 <TrueBrain> frosch123: so update your script ;) :p
21:24:06 <TrueBrain> but okay, a small app would work better, as it keeps track of #ifdefs
21:24:10 <TrueBrain> which can be important ;)
21:24:26 <frosch123> when are they important?
21:24:43 <glx> usually they are for system includes
21:25:14 <frosch123> so it might rebuild some files more than needed, but only once. where is the problem?
21:25:25 <TrueBrain> never said there was a problem
21:25:30 <TrueBrain> just concluded a small app would be better
21:26:04 <frosch123> and if you take care of #ifdef, where is the difference to --without-makedepend ?
21:26:14 <TrueBrain> --without-makedepend uses gcc
21:26:20 <TrueBrain> so .. want to talk about the difference? :)
21:26:30 <TrueBrain> 'makedepend' does take #ifdefs into account
21:26:30 <Rubidium> gcc resolves it for each .cpp individually
21:26:49 <Rubidium> a single app can cache
21:26:56 <TrueBrain> so I think the small app would be .. 10 times faster than gcc would be :p
21:27:44 <TrueBrain> gcc even does preprocessing :s
21:27:46 <glx> hmm I can try to write a little app
21:27:50 <frosch123> ok, so you write the 'small' app, and I write the script, and then we let them compete?
21:27:58 <glx> should be a fun thing to do
21:28:01 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I thought you were going to do both :p
21:28:25 <frosch123> I won't write a 'small' app, because I doubt it would be 'small'
21:28:34 <TrueBrain> frosch123: either way, I hope you realise your script would be 'less' than such app :)
21:28:38 <TrueBrain> frosch123: 'makedepend' is very small :)
21:28:52 <TrueBrain> it just has design flaws ... and no upstream maintainers :)
21:29:14 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: looks like a X11 makedepend clone
21:30:00 <TrueBrain> same naming of files :p
21:30:16 <Rubidium> look at the commit message of some of the files
21:30:27 <Rubidium> sounds like it isn't the "real" makedepend
21:30:38 <TrueBrain> "rename getline -> getppline to avoid conflict with stdio.h in gcc 4.4"
21:30:53 <TrueBrain> o increase MAXFILES to 8192 so that we don't fail for some of the
21:30:54 <TrueBrain> verification tests on "slough.mit.edu"
21:31:06 <TrueBrain> so it only patches the problems
21:31:09 <TrueBrain> rather than fixing them :)
21:31:15 <frosch123> "initial checkin" could also mean checking in the unmodified makedepend and planning to improve it
21:31:28 <TrueBrain> it looks like that is the case ;)
21:31:54 <TrueBrain> either way, the solution for OpenTTD should be plain easy, as we don't care about system includes
21:32:30 <TrueBrain> a small app would be more perfect (less recompiling), but a script would be more than sufficient enough too
21:32:59 <TrueBrain> well .. 'script' is a bit vague, an 'awk' script can be the 'small app' too :p :p
21:34:02 <Rubidium> I'd say that C is easier to make portable than awk with it's many implementations
21:34:11 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: you are most likely right :)
21:34:33 <TrueBrain> and it most likely would be faster :)
21:34:50 <frosch123> well, maybe it is indeed easier to resolve the dependency tree in C
21:35:14 <Rubidium> you could cheat quite a bit though
21:35:29 <Rubidium> like assuming the file names are unique (it has to be for MSVC)
21:35:47 <TrueBrain> assuming nothing depends on .cpp files
21:36:11 <TrueBrain> I see glx hard typing his keyboard now :p
21:36:11 <Rubidium> assert on #include xyz.cpp ;)
21:37:10 <TrueBrain> either way, the conclusion is clear: OpenTTD got too big :p
21:37:23 <petern> some idiot wrote a new ai system
21:37:44 <TrueBrain> petern: wrong answer, you should say: no, it is great!!!
21:37:48 * TrueBrain goes sit in a corner
21:37:52 <petern> and the AIs don't leave me alone
21:38:25 <TrueBrain> but yeah, NoAI is a big compiler-hit :p
21:38:34 <TrueBrain> SmatZ can tell us how big :p
21:38:45 <petern> smatz can tell us exactly how long it takes to compile
21:38:55 <TrueBrain> and all this 'splitting files' is not helping either
21:39:00 <TrueBrain> why not just all.cpp
21:39:19 * TrueBrain starts to do: cat * > all.cpp
21:39:37 <petern> you'd get better optimisation too :p
21:39:56 <TrueBrain> recompile-after-commit gets a whole new meaning ...
21:40:09 <TrueBrain> -after-change even ..
21:40:33 <Rubidium> that'll kill the OSX port ;)
21:40:43 <TrueBrain> I think it will kill more than just the port
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22:47:31 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16025 /trunk/src/ (station_cmd.cpp station_gui.cpp station_type.h): -Fix [FS#2818]: "build separate station" in the station picker would reuse deleted stations.
23:10:50 *** draconnier has joined #openttd
23:12:13 <frosch123> several seconds, you have a bad connection :p
23:20:54 *** draconnier has joined #openttd
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