IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-03-26
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00:00:26 <Yexo> all widgets from the old widget array need a replacement in the new system, and this->index points to the first widget that has no replacement
00:03:35 <Yexo> do you have any new widget with idx = SNGRFS_BACKGROUND1 ?
00:04:57 <Yexo> can you upload your current diff?
00:05:05 <petern> i have it twice. odd :p
00:06:19 <petern> okay, doesn't assert now
00:06:26 <petern> doesn't work either, but never mind
00:06:54 <Yexo> make sure to start with -d misc=1 and you'll have a diff of the old / new widgets in the debug output
00:27:46 <petern> although some flags are different
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00:36:07 <glx> hmm maybe I should convert some windows too :)
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02:02:23 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r15855 /trunk/src/company_gui.cpp: -Codechange: complete the company finances window widget enum and remove unneeded magic in large window definition
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02:37:22 <HackaLittleBit> DaleStan: are you available
02:38:58 <HackaLittleBit> Ok good night everybody
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02:39:33 <DaleStan> Hint to lurkers: If he'd asked a real question, I would have been availabe.
02:41:20 <glx> he used the better way to not get an answer
02:44:07 <Sacro> DaleStan: you might have got a date out of it
02:54:08 <eMjay88> what a difference a little question mark makes :P
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03:02:48 <DaleStan> eMjay88: BZZZT. Wrong. Guess again?
03:03:34 <eMjay88> was "are you available" not a real question for reasons other than the missing question mark?
03:04:06 <DaleStan> "Don't ask to ask, just ask!"
03:04:20 <Sacro> DaleStan: any good with hashtables?
03:04:31 <DaleStan> Now see. That's a real question.
03:05:25 <Sacro> and a serious one at that
03:05:37 <Sacro> I'm worried about thread safety :(
03:06:11 <DaleStan> With a real question you have a chance of getting information that will be useful more than a minute after the answer is given.
03:06:56 <DaleStan> I know a little about thread safety. I'm not aware of any special implications for hash tables.
03:08:09 <Sacro> Well I can have many read + one right
03:08:14 <Sacro> or many write and nobody reads
03:08:25 <Sacro> but I want many write and many read, which seems quite a complex trick
03:09:24 <DaleStan> Many read + one write doesn't work the way most people think it does.
03:10:05 <DaleStan> If the writer gets interrupted halfway through a write and then a reader comes along to read the inconsistent state, things will almost certainly break.
03:10:39 <Sacro> currently I lock the hashset on both reads and writes
03:10:48 <Sacro> I'm not sure if I need to lock on a read but I feel I should
03:11:05 <Sacro> I'm not sure if I can check for a lock as opposed to obtain one
03:11:20 <Sacro> but then if a write was to come along... it could jump in ahead of the read
03:11:53 <eMjay88> this is a fairly classic concurrent access afaict
03:12:04 <eMjay88> concurrent access issue*
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03:13:02 <Sacro> though perhaps I'm overthinking my coursework :(
03:13:09 <Sacro> not sure he's even brought up this concept
03:13:17 <Sacro> not sure he even taught multi threaded servers
03:13:30 <DaleStan> I'm not sure about that either. I think a system that provides the minimum necessary safety could be written in x86 assembly, but I don't know if that's exposed to higher level languages.
03:14:32 <eMjay88> you could use a "fair" semaphore type object to get threads to wait while the hashtable is in use?
03:14:33 <DaleStan> Oh bother. I'm trying to make double-checked locking work.
03:14:39 <Sacro> well C# has some things
03:14:50 <Sacro> eMjay88: i'm sure that's what lock(hashtable) does
03:14:57 <Sacro> but you can still get deadlock
03:15:24 <Sacro> i can't see how my app could deadlock
03:16:15 <eMjay88> something tries to write an item using the hashtable itself?
03:16:48 <Sacro> Yeah but there's no circular route I don't think
03:17:03 <Sacro> Items read, then write then leave
03:17:13 <Sacro> so I can't see that locking
03:17:19 <eMjay88> when do they open their locks?
03:17:29 <Sacro> after the hashset access
03:17:48 <eMjay88> lock -> read -> write -> unlock?
03:18:03 <eMjay88> or read -> lock -> write -> unlock?
03:18:34 <Sacro> lock -> read -> unlock -> lock -> write -> unlock
03:19:12 <DaleStan> So, the solution I had in mind could send your threads into tight loops.
03:22:02 <Sacro> meh, i'll research more tommorow
03:22:07 <DaleStan> Double-checked locking, but with the "fix" that if the lock was improperly acquired, it'd release everything and start over. Interlacing the threads badly, and none can properly acquire a lock.
03:22:29 <DaleStan> Interlace the threads badly*
03:23:10 <eMjay88> Sacro: are all locks equal? or can you get a read-lock?
03:23:31 <Sacro> I think they are all equal
03:23:37 <Sacro> I think this is over-cautious
03:23:40 <Sacro> which is better I guess
03:23:51 <Sacro> I don't know if anyone else who has done multi-threading has considered this
03:24:00 <eMjay88> read-locks can simplify things...
03:25:41 <Sacro> I don't think there are
03:25:54 <Sacro> short of writing it myself
03:26:20 <eMjay88> :S I thought you were
03:26:38 <Sacro> if I can use inbuilt lock() then I will :p
03:26:42 <eMjay88> what language and all are you using? you mentioned C# before...
03:28:40 <Sacro> Right, I'll look at that tommorwo
03:29:49 <Sacro> it predates HashTable, hence why the documentation doesn't mention it *facepalm*
03:30:09 <eMjay88> is there a ReaderLock? (ie readonly lock?)
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03:52:11 <eMjay88> my keyboad stopped working
03:52:17 <eMjay88> it was really quite annoying
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04:50:26 <eMjay88> anyone here use virtual box?
04:50:43 <eMjay88> with a linux (preferably ubuntu) guest OS?
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09:05:50 <planetmaker> a wonderful good morning everyone :)
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09:22:35 <eQualizer> What port does content downloading use?
09:22:52 <Rubidium> the same one advertising uses
09:23:58 * petern ponders migrating this laptop to debian lenny from ubugtu
09:24:31 <eQualizer> ...sorry? I just mean, I'm at work right now, and I just installed OpenTTD and OpenGFX (<3), but online content doesn't find anything. Just says can't connect to content server.
09:24:53 <dihedral> eQualizer, then the port is probably blocked!
09:24:57 <eQualizer> And it could be because almost all ports (except 22, 80, etc) are blocked.
09:25:01 <dihedral> and if you are at work, WORK!
09:25:35 <dihedral> what does your boss pay you for? open source game testing?
09:25:36 <eQualizer> I'm a receptionist, so my work is quite passive...
09:25:43 <DorpsGek> petern: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound)
09:26:07 <dihedral> i'd expect all UDP to be blocked
09:26:14 <dihedral> you should not need it outgoing
09:26:26 <petern> yeah, traceroute's aren't useful
09:26:28 <Rubidium> dihedral: yeah... that'd be fun ;)
09:26:44 <petern> there, that's my quota of misplaced apostrophes
09:26:53 <dihedral> Rubidium, blocking all udp or testing open source games ^^
09:27:13 <dihedral> there is no issue with that
09:27:18 <dihedral> anything you need internally you can relay
09:27:23 <eQualizer> Would there be anyway to add some proxy settings to OpenTTD?
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09:27:47 <dihedral> like i said, anything you might need will be relayed
09:27:54 <dihedral> that includes dns and ntp
09:28:00 <petern> (which is allowed, but only the appropriate ports)
09:28:14 <Rubidium> but then you haven't blocked all udp!
09:28:31 <dihedral> if your router is also the relay ^^
09:28:39 <Rubidium> eQualizer: just set up a transparent socks proxy
09:29:08 <dihedral> somewhere on the other side of the firewall :-P
09:31:25 <eQualizer> Rubidium: But I still would need to make OpenTTD use it?
09:31:43 <eQualizer> To use localhost and some port?
09:32:08 <Rubidium> that's where hosts (the file) comes in handy
09:32:57 <petern> backing up 30GB at 10MB/s
09:33:33 <dihedral> eQualizer, do consider, that your network admins might not approve
09:33:55 <dihedral> also consider that people have lost their jobs for not following the network quitelines / requirements
09:34:23 <eQualizer> I'm quite free to do what I want her, as long as I don't destroy anything...
09:34:29 <eQualizer> Like install OpenTTD.
09:35:58 <petern> including maintaining the network, heh
09:36:05 <planetmaker> [10:32] <petern> backing up 30GB at 10MB/s <-- sounds like a job for a night time cron job ;)
09:36:09 <dihedral> the joy of being the admin ^^
09:36:17 <petern> planetmaker, but it's one off
09:36:35 <petern> so i guess 50 minutes might be right
09:36:36 <dihedral> petern, cron job that only runs once every year? :-P
09:36:52 <dihedral> petern, backing up via wireless? :-P
09:36:54 <petern> a cronjob that runs once now?
09:36:55 <planetmaker> dihedral: there are uses for that, too...
09:37:04 <dihedral> yes, but you forget them ;-D
09:37:20 <petern> 10MB/s, as in megabytes
09:37:30 <planetmaker> dihedral: how do I forget them, if they're in the cron ?
09:37:30 <dihedral> petern, what about connecting the hdd directly to the other computer?
09:37:47 <petern> i do not have an appropriate adapter
09:38:02 <dihedral> well yes, that'd be a bummer then :-D
09:38:36 <petern> and i'm only backing it up so i can wipe it ;)
09:39:04 <petern> then i can wipe out the old windows partition
09:39:48 <dihedral> petern, you'd be faster to mail-order the adapter, and continue once it's arrived :-D
09:39:56 <petern> 50 minutes? not really
09:40:22 <petern> you do remember when i copied 120GB over a week right?
09:40:38 <Rubidium> the one with hourly updates?
09:42:36 <Forked> so much hostility .. makes me sad :\
09:42:40 <petern> odd, my server is struggling under the IO :/
09:42:41 <Forked> I really should stop reading forums
09:43:24 <Forked> god damn commercials on spotify
09:44:55 <petern> ah, the old "it was a joke" get out clause
09:45:28 <petern> this is somewhat quicker, because that time i was copying over a congested 200KB/s link
09:55:24 <planetmaker> [10:44] <petern> ah, the old "it was a joke" get out clause <-- especially well pulled, if the next sentence reads along the lines of "I'm right despite..."
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10:10:06 <petern> but that's half an hour :/
10:13:58 <dihedral> petern, did you hear about these OHG guys?
10:14:09 <dihedral> they are embeding python in OpenTTD ;-D
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10:17:44 <dihedral> now have a wild guess who's idea that was
10:19:31 <dihedral> give you a hint: name / nick starts with a 'y'
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10:21:44 <Forked> could it be someone that has been frequently kicked (and banned) from this channel?
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10:25:57 <dihedral> i like to nick him/it yorkyporky :-D
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11:01:06 <eQualizer> Is this a bug in OpenGFX or in 0.7.0-RC2, when my airport hangar windows is BIG? Slots are about the size of 3x3 terrain tiles.
11:01:22 <Rubidium> that's an OpenGFX 'feature'
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11:02:06 <Rubidium> (one that used to crash OpenTTD)
11:03:23 <petern> more missing sprites? :p
11:03:43 <Rubidium> no, sprites that are ginormous
11:04:02 <Rubidium> i.e. larger than the buffer for the cursor sprite
11:04:21 <petern> i thought opengfx used the original sprite sizes
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11:07:25 <Rubidium> in OpenGFX *all* aircraft related sprites are 108x108 pixels
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14:47:11 * planetmaker thinks that the current amount of new forum participants who qualify as "annoying" is above average... :S
14:50:38 <dihedral> planetmaker, but at least now we will have less than 50 posts a week saying "please update your patch"
14:51:30 <Belugas> mmh... i have to re-extract both "The Fragile" CDs :(
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14:53:36 <planetmaker> Belugas: will this club feature regulary mutual consolence-sessions with much beer?
14:54:43 <dihedral> planetmaker is asking for a pitty-hug ... with beer
14:55:19 <planetmaker> but quite about right. Though I'm just as well willing to give them as well :)
14:55:39 <Belugas> planetmaker, beer would be a good thing
14:55:39 <petern> meh, creox is killing my laptop :(
14:55:40 <dihedral> do we have a python guru here?
14:56:13 <Belugas> planetmaker, i dream of inviting you all for a ton of beer at home.
14:56:48 <planetmaker> :) sounds like a plan :P Quebec?
14:58:05 <planetmaker> well... I think I dare in due time :)
15:00:19 <Belugas> ho boy... what a though...
15:00:38 <Belugas> how am i going to react when my son will ask me for a feature???
15:04:00 <planetmaker> My dear son... a nice thought, but... :)
15:04:32 <planetmaker> My dear son... that's a great idea. Let's sit down and think it through :)
15:04:58 <Rubidium> My dear son... that's a great idea. Here's your first C++ book!
15:05:23 <Belugas> or... gimme a dozen beers, get mom outside and we'll do it toguether
15:05:52 <Belugas> and call uncle pete, to get him along
15:08:48 <Belugas> does it show? i'm tired...
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15:18:53 <planetmaker> you still sound ok at this end :)
15:28:21 <Rubidium> planetmaker: can't you see all the extra white on his expressions?
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15:28:54 <planetmaker> Rubidium: that's only the eternal snow, I assume :P
15:29:13 <Belugas> stuff that grows on my head
15:29:23 <Rubidium> I was more thinking about white space ;)
15:29:38 <planetmaker> white hair is more than no hair :D
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15:50:52 <Belugas> but alas... it's all cold beer :S
15:54:32 <Rubidium> oh... there's also beer ice
15:54:59 <Belugas> we have a beer that is called Ice in here
16:05:22 <Aali> stupid stupid stupid glGenTextures
16:05:25 <petern> chilled ale, of course
16:06:03 <NukeBuster> wow, you are having that issue :)
16:06:11 <NukeBuster> nice so am I with TE :P
16:06:47 <Aali> I'm not using threads, but its a dll so
16:06:55 <NukeBuster> i think he is, it has something todo with creating textures out of the opengl rendering thread.
16:07:31 <Aali> is the gl context bound to the thread?
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16:08:08 <NukeBuster> I haven't solved the issue for myself yet. But uzurpator told me that is why we are getting segfaults at that point.
16:08:40 <NukeBuster> are you getting a segfault?
16:09:14 <Aali> well its usually because you haven't set up a gl context, or because you haven't called glEnable(GL_TEXTURE_2D), but I'm 100% certain I've done that
16:09:34 <Aali> in some random code segment, my code isn't crashing
16:10:32 <NukeBuster> ok, but it happens on the line where you load the texture?
16:10:57 <NukeBuster> that is exactly the same issue as we are having...
16:11:09 <Aali> glGenTextures doesn't load the texture
16:11:22 <Aali> but thats where its crashing
16:11:59 <NukeBuster> indeed, the glGenTextures doesn't load the texture
16:13:06 <petern> i breaks in openttd when it's called in a different thread
16:13:34 <petern> maybe you just need a texture manager thread that handles all loading
16:14:06 <NukeBuster> aali, do you have an easy way to switch do directx (jusnt to try)
16:14:21 <NukeBuster> directx shouldn't have that issue
16:14:32 <glx> NukeBuster: different APIs
16:14:40 <Aali> I'm developing an opengl driver
16:14:47 <Aali> the dx driver works fine
16:15:16 <glx> NukeBuster: then you don't use opengl or directx directly
16:15:30 <NukeBuster> 0x042d7532 in glGenTextures () from /usr/lib/libGL.so.1
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16:17:12 <NukeBuster> CreateInternalResources() is probably where it goes wrong.
16:17:49 <petern> most likely threading problems
16:17:59 <Aali> now I call wglMakeCurrent and glEnable(GL_TEXTURE_2D) just before glGenTextures
16:18:10 <petern> so are you TE dev now, or just trying to get it workign?
16:18:10 <Aali> so it's definitely in the same thread
16:18:24 <NukeBuster> just trying to get it working on linux :)
16:18:56 <petern> cross platform coding? what's that?
16:19:05 <petern> # nothing can stop me now
16:19:12 <NukeBuster> thats the dev using MSVC :P
16:20:06 <petern> has uzurpator discovered coding style yet?
16:20:26 <NukeBuster> somewhat, but he apperently is unable to switch from spaces to tabs
16:20:53 <petern> which basically forces style...
16:21:17 <NukeBuster> Aali have you run gdb on your segfault?
16:22:39 <petern> not much help with opengl :)
16:23:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r15856 /trunk/src/widget.cpp: -Fix (r15819): NWidgetLeaf constructor don't use the provided window caption string
16:24:06 <NukeBuster> Well, gotta cook some dinner. afk
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17:03:43 *** Belugas was kicked by Belugas (YOU PIG! YOu could at least say sorry!)
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17:25:39 <Aali> glGenTextures is called in the same thread (double checked), wglGetCurrentContext does not return null, glEnable does not fail and yet it crashes every time
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17:33:06 <Aali> I would like to blame nvidia for making shitty drivers, but other opengl apps work so..
17:52:39 <Belugas> is there anyone else you can blame?
17:53:21 <el_en> Aali: nvidia doesn't make shitty drivers, so...
17:54:23 <Aali> hardware vendors always make shitty drivers
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17:57:45 <Aali> hey, funny story, last time I updated my graphics drivers it made my system nearly unbootable so I had to revert to older drivers
17:57:59 <Aali> but thats real quality software, no doubt
17:59:06 <Aali> and by nearly unbootable I mean I could boot it and it actually worked fine, except the screen was full of random garbage leftover from my last boot
18:00:11 <Forked> I had that once ona hercules voodoo rush (6MB) .. if I ran diablo and quit the game righta way it was fine.. but I got a new one anyway =P oh how happy I was when they were out of the 6MB version and sent a 8MB card \o/
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18:16:13 <frosch123> hardly as bad as the dutch one, "simcity" is not even mentioned
18:16:51 <frosch123> though it dates ttd before railroad tycoon :)
18:21:10 <Ammler> I like the hint to the free download location of the original graphics ;-)
18:21:31 <frosch123> hehe, it sounds quite official :)
18:23:12 <Ammler> oh, yalm is as pdf available, the report there is nicer to read...
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18:27:55 <Belugas> indeed... what's all about?
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18:38:34 <petern> TTD-Homepage: www.tt-ms.de? hhaha
18:39:52 <Sacro> damn you thread locking :(
18:44:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r15857 /trunk/src/lang/ (8 files): (log message trimmed)
18:44:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-03-26 18:44:31
18:44:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: arabic_egypt - 8 fixed by khaloofah (8)
18:44:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: danish - 4 changed by beruic (4)
18:44:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 1 changed by Excel20 (1)
18:44:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: icelandic - 25 fixed by scrooge (25)
18:44:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: luxembourgish - 10 fixed by Gubius (10)
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18:47:09 <el_en> there's a new firmware upgrade for Wii that allows storing and running Virtual Console and WiiWare games on SD.
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18:55:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r15858 /trunk/src/road_gui.cpp: -Codechange: New widgets for the road toolbars.
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19:05:44 <Darkvater> interesting... what's this new widget thingie?
19:05:54 <Darkvater> judging from the diffs it's just larger code ;)
19:07:44 <Darkvater> that's a very readable link you got there :P
19:08:05 <Darkvater> ah, so prerequisite of RTL
19:08:51 <Rubidium> and... autosizing widgets depending on the content
19:08:57 * Darkvater notices the triangle should be flipped
19:09:13 <Darkvater> ah, that's cool though
19:09:29 <Rubidium> i.e. no overflows and no unneeded truncating anymore
19:09:47 <Darkvater> so is that train running at 112km/h or 211km/h
19:09:52 <Yexo> and the old widget arrays are just kept for reference (to compare old/new), they already can be removed
19:10:32 <Darkvater> Yexo: are you gonna add custom-shortcuts too :)
19:11:31 <Darkvater> so that people can define which shortcuts to use for what action
19:11:42 <Yexo> I have no intention of coding that
19:11:49 <Yexo> although I agree it would be nice
19:12:33 <Belugas> was a patch for it on some dark forums corner, i beleive
19:12:35 <Darkvater> Rubidium: yeah I saw a screen of one of those on your website
19:13:33 <Darkvater> well keep up the good work :)
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19:44:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r15859 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_cargo.hpp: -Documentation: Meaning of AICargo::CC_PASSENGERS wrt. bus- and truckstops, and meaning of AICargo::IsFreight() wrt. freight train weight multiplier.
19:45:57 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r15860 /trunk/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Add: AIRoad::GetRoadVehicleTypeForCargo() to tell whether a certain cargo needs a bus- or a truckstop.
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20:33:18 <Zorni> y/server -m irc.quakenet.org
20:36:42 <Nite_Owl> not that it really matters given the small file size and the fast downloads but why do the servers (nightly at least) not support resuming
20:39:26 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r15861 /trunk/src/ (widget.cpp widget_type.h): -Codechange: Add NWID_HORIZONTAL_LTR that forces the ordering from left-to-right.
20:40:13 <Nite_Owl> resuming of the download
20:40:37 <Yexo> from the content server or savegames (when playing multiplayer)?
20:42:21 <Nite_Owl> not sure which server it is - linked off the main page
20:43:04 <Rubidium> oh... you mean the WEBSERVER
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20:43:12 <Rubidium> that supports resuming just fine
20:43:46 <Rubidium> well... wget + webserver seem to be resuming just fine
20:44:50 <Nite_Owl> The one Yexo listed above comes up in GetRight as 'server does not support resume'
20:45:17 <Rubidium> then GetRight isn't right
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20:47:35 <Limpaar> can anyone give me a link where I can download OTTD 0.7.0 RC2 ?
20:48:04 <Yexo> on top, you'll see a link "Download testing (0.7.0-RC2)"
20:48:33 <Sacro> hmm, mac.softpedia.com beats the official site
20:48:52 <Yexo> Sacro: that's specialistation for you
20:49:13 <Yexo> when I search on google.nl, tweakers.net comes first, when I search via google.co.uk openttd.org is on top
20:50:15 <Limpaar> openttd.org shows only the news about 0.7.0 RC2 release ... but where can I download it
20:50:58 <Limpaar> oh sorry... I'm blind didn't see that
20:52:50 <Nite_Owl> Hmmm - GetRight resumes on other sites - very odd
20:55:26 <Nite_Owl> no denying that - it must be program specific
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21:08:00 <Nite_Owl> Here is odd for you - GetRight gives the warning 'server does not support resume' (openttd.org) but if you actually do pause the download and then resume it it does actually resume
21:12:26 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r15862 /trunk/src/ (dock_gui.cpp rail_gui.cpp road_gui.cpp): -Codechange: New widgets for the road, rail and ship depot guis.
21:46:52 <Combuster> you know of anything that could cause cargo to be dropped at an unconnected station?
21:47:41 <Nite_Owl> if it is unconnected how did the cargo get there?
21:48:10 <Combuster> There are two industries
21:48:16 <Combuster> the station's connected to one
21:48:24 <Combuster> everything gets dropped at the other
21:48:33 <Nite_Owl> some industry must be in the catchment area
21:48:50 <Sacro> where a random unconnected station gets things
21:48:58 <Sacro> mine was epic, it was powering a power plant
21:49:04 <Sacro> even though it wasn't being fed
21:49:14 <Combuster> There's some decent traffic around here
21:49:30 <Combuster> the thing was connected previously
21:49:37 <Combuster> I moved the station to connected the other
21:52:25 <Nite_Owl> need to nap - later all
22:13:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r15863 /trunk/src/statusbar_gui.cpp: -Fix (r15791): company money and game date strings were swapped on the statusbar
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22:33:53 <eMjay88> merry pants-off friday
22:38:11 <SmatZ> in Soviet Russia, it's Friday
22:38:49 <Rubidium> in the summer it's friday too
22:38:57 <Chrill> In Soviet Russia, friday is you??
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23:17:26 <eMjay88> well, happy friday to those on this side of Greenwich
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23:29:23 <goodger> eMjay88: your advance friday greeting is noted and appreciated
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continue to next day ⏵
