IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-03-27
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00:46:53 <eMjay88> ok, so say my network admin has somehow set up the router to kick me from the wifi when I use bittorrent
00:47:02 <eMjay88> does anyone know how to get around this?
00:48:24 <eMjay88> ok, does anyone know how to get around this AND keep using bittorrent?
00:48:37 <thingwath> protocol encryption may help :)
00:48:40 <glx> maybe it's just a bad router
00:48:48 <Rubidium> keep killing the network admin until the problem is fixed?
00:48:54 <eMjay88> I'm pretty sure it's already encrypted
00:49:09 <eMjay88> glx: you mean I'm crashing the router with bt traffic?
00:49:53 <glx> some routers don't even support openttd traffic on wifi
00:50:01 <eMjay88> dmesg tells me "wlan1: No ProbeResp from current AP 00:13:46:c8:82:62 - assume out of range"
00:50:11 <eMjay88> that could indicate that the router died...
00:51:20 <glx> easy to check if someone else is connected on this router
00:51:39 <SmatZ> the problem can be many new connections in short period of time
00:52:04 <eMjay88> perhaps I can limit the bandwidth, and see if that fixes it...
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00:52:43 <glx> you can limit them if you use a good bt client
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00:53:11 <glx> (one having a setting for that)
00:53:13 <eMjay88> I use deluge atm, it's not fantastic but ok
00:53:22 <eMjay88> it does have bandwidth settings
00:53:42 <glx> it's probably not a bandwith problem
00:54:57 <glx> on µtorrent I just set net.max_half_open to 1 and windows no longer complains about TCP
00:55:25 <glx> maybe you have a similar setting
01:02:38 <eMjay88> I have max half-open connections, it is set to 8 (default)
01:02:58 <eMjay88> tooltip says: "A high value may crash some cheap routers" :P
01:03:24 <thingwath> hm, ktorrent has something like "maximum number of connection setups", set to 50, and I have no idea what is it, possibly the same thing?
01:03:52 <eMjay88> do you think 200 is too high for maximum connections in general?
01:04:14 <glx> established connection != half_open
01:05:45 <glx> I have 600 as max and 100 per torrent
01:06:21 <thingwath> hm, 100 peers for a torrent, that can happen? :)
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01:21:49 <eMjay88> thingwath: depends how popular your torrents are
01:23:54 <eMjay88> how are half open connections used in bt?
01:24:37 <eMjay88> is it kind of like udp? you send data and it doesn't get ACK'd?
01:25:59 <thingwath> I guess it's a state of the connection before you get the ACK
01:27:32 <eMjay88> w'pedia says it's when one end has closed the connection but not told the other end
01:28:00 <eMjay88> and then goes on to say that the remaining open end may not expect replies, keeping the connection persistently half-open
01:30:14 <eMjay88> anyway, glx, that seems to have worked
01:30:23 <eMjay88> although my speed is way down
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01:55:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r15864 /trunk/src/company_gui.cpp: -Codechange: add some 'invisible' widgets on company finances window, and use them to determine where to draw strings instead using some magic values
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08:00:23 <dihedral> \o/ a planetmaker ^^
08:00:31 <dihedral> make us another earth
08:00:39 <dihedral> one that is not full of garbage
08:00:55 <planetmaker> dihedral: it was destroyed... making place for a galactic highway :(
08:02:02 <dihedral> ^ can we not remove the Singa ^^
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08:02:53 <dihedral> ^ and here s/Com/Peer/ :-P
08:03:26 <dihedral> <- has a happy-day today
08:03:32 <petern> you can't remove him, he just left
08:03:35 <dihedral> dont ask me why - probably must a bit too tired
08:07:49 <goodger> planetmaker: however, the recent invention of the Infinite Improbability Drive made all hyperspace bypasses obsolete. DUN DUN DUHHHHH!
08:08:29 <goodger> dihedral: you do seem particularly hyperactive today
08:08:40 <planetmaker> which will give a huge boost to the coffee industry...
08:09:13 <goodger> nah, dihedral _waking up_ gives a huge boost to the coffee industry
08:09:15 <dihedral> me being hyperactive will give a boost to the coffee industry?
08:09:30 <dihedral> what i need, is a cup of tea ^^
08:10:03 <goodger> what a frood you are ~
08:11:06 <goodger> you are hopping, perhaps
08:12:45 <petern> has orudge actually read it yet?
08:13:00 <Sacro_> goodger: are you calling another male a hoopy frood?
08:13:33 <Sacro_> well at least you've not mentioned sassing him
08:13:44 <goodger> Sacro_: although I am gay, I don't believe "hoopy" or "frood" mean sexually attractive. only "sass" was mentioned to mean "have sex with"
08:13:55 <Sacro_> well, meet/be attracted to/have sex with
08:14:18 <goodger> know, be aware of, have sex with
08:14:48 <Sacro_> ^ also standard response
08:15:54 <goodger> I wore a suit clumsily constructed from a shirt, tie, formal trousers, blazer and oxford shoes to college recently, just to irritate the staff; people asked me "why are you wearing a suit?"; I'd reply "why aren't you?"
08:16:09 <goodger> that shut them up quite neatly
08:16:14 <Sacro_> hmm, 450 words, not bad
08:16:27 <Sacro_> i might suit up for uni
08:16:27 <goodger> petern: has owen read what?
08:17:00 <petern> i admit, it is quite inconceivable that someone hasn't
08:17:17 <goodger> Sacro_: it irritates the hell out of senior staff members who use it as a status symbol
08:18:43 <petern> i haven't ever worn a suit
08:19:22 <goodger> wait... why did you :( when asked if you were gay? are you dissatisfied with heterosexuality?
08:19:52 <goodger> a fitted suit is, in theory, the most comfortable clothing a person can wear; it keeps the spine in place, for one thing
08:19:58 <petern> it's just a joke, Sacro_'s raging with the best of them
08:21:06 <dihedral> Sacro_, you might want to reconsider your answer to "yes, aren't you [gay]?"
08:21:12 <dihedral> i really thought you were
08:21:20 <dihedral> i am sure Bjarni would also second that
08:21:31 <dihedral> i am just kidding petern
08:21:43 <dihedral> teasing Sacro is a bunch of run
08:21:56 <petern> at least he's not a christian
08:22:18 <goodger> I'm sure a substantially larger proportion than 6% of tt-forums members are gay; it's just not generally relevant
08:22:35 <dihedral> petern, nice one :-D
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08:23:05 <goodger> however, I find that the best way to deal with a joking insinuation that I'm gay is to say I am; then people tend to become very flustered and embarrassed \o/
08:23:25 <dihedral> goodger, 6% is not that much, when you consider that about 20-25% of the forum users are real idiots
08:23:34 <dihedral> possibly even more ^^
08:23:55 <petern> which just proves that 5.9% of idiots are gay
08:23:55 <goodger> well, 6% is the proportion of Britons who'll admit to it on a government form
08:24:22 <goodger> I'm sure that the actual figure is far higher, and that the actual figure is the same worldwide...
08:24:32 <dihedral> if they asked my cousin, he would fail at ticking [ ] male [ ] female
08:24:44 <petern> dihedral, there are 17000 registered users
08:25:00 <dihedral> would either be [x] male [x] female, or even [ ] male x [ ] female
08:25:02 <goodger> dihedral: admittedly, some people do not self-identify as either of those...
08:25:15 <goodger> gah, /me must go to college now
08:25:21 <petern> 99% leaves ~ 200 non-idiot users
08:25:25 <petern> which sounds about right ;)
08:25:30 <goodger> let us continue this most enlightening conversation later
08:25:38 <dihedral> he's currently in the state of .... 'transforming'
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08:26:06 <petern> transistioning, it is called
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08:26:33 <dihedral> i wanted to be humorous petern
08:26:37 <dihedral> have a nice day goodger
08:26:43 <petern> oh yeah, LOL!!L!L!!!1111
08:26:57 <goodger> </reginaldperrinquote>
08:28:22 <petern> ah, i am within the top 200 users, heh
08:30:48 <petern> dihedral is 194th, hah
08:31:11 <petern> okay i guess top 200 posters is not the right condition :p
08:34:59 <dihedral> petern, where do you see that?
08:35:15 <petern> in the userlist, sorted by posts, heh
08:36:55 <Sacro_> Hmm, think I'm about done with this ACW
08:37:04 <Sacro_> less than an hour to get it handed in :(
08:37:17 <Sacro_> need to find a paper wallet
08:40:03 <petern> been up all night finishing it?
08:50:16 <petern> that makes me want to throw up :/
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09:57:25 <eQualizer> There isn't any way to know in-game which airplanes are suitable for small airfield?
09:58:26 <Sacro> eQualizer: if they crash and burn then they are too big
09:59:36 <Aali> the easiest solution is to set different company colours for small/big aircraft
10:00:19 <Aali> but IIRC, once you've built the airplane you can see it in the vehicle details window
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10:19:50 <Cybertinus> you can have big airplanes on a small airfield?
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10:20:11 <Cybertinus> The chance that they chrash is only a lot bigger, which costs a lot of money :)
10:23:38 <dihedral> a 'required runway length' info when looking at the stats when wanting to buy would be nice :-P
10:26:28 <petern> there's only one h in crash
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10:34:11 <dihedral> at least someone got the pun
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11:36:40 <sadsadsadas> anyone here ? I need help, I enabled modifying production cheat but I cannot see any place to actualy modify production at all, using nightly, ecs
11:38:44 <Aali> that won't work with ECS
11:40:38 <Ammler> ECS is easy anyway, no need to cheat ;-)
11:41:33 <Ammler> just the grf parameters to 15 15
11:44:16 <Ammler> if you have a "strong", you could join the #openttdcoop server and finish the game, nobody else is able to ;-)
11:44:58 <Ammler> well, not many anymore
11:45:14 <Ammler> looks like ECS almost double the cpu usage
11:46:42 <sadsadsadas> i had to remove ai's
11:47:13 <Aali> I guess you dont have 995 trains though
11:48:31 <sadsadsadas> no, but over 1k buses (removed them), over 100 planes
11:49:09 <sadsadsadas> just cannot figure out how to transport fish from fishing ground, no ship is capable of ransporting fish :////
11:50:34 <Ammler> sadsadsadas: old waggons, new vehicels
11:51:00 <Ammler> or the newships from mb
11:51:38 <sadsadsadas> ships suck, but cargo is precious
11:53:02 <Aali> there's nothing to stop you from moving that precious fish by train
11:53:29 <Ammler> 2cc isn't even in beta state, afaik
11:53:59 <sadsadsadas> trains in the middle of atlantic ocean ? no thanks :P
11:54:05 <dihedral> Gekz, skype has a privacy setting
11:54:23 <dihedral> anybody who does not use it is stupid enough to have deserved such a chat ^^
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11:58:26 <Ammler> sadsadsadas: also possible to use multiple ship sets
11:59:50 <sadsadsadas> i hope yes, because I cannot use multiple train sets anymore :/
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12:00:39 <dihedral> sadsadsadas, settings!
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12:08:16 <Forked> just compiled your latest diff.. posting win32 binary now (I'm just assuming thats fine with you :p)
12:09:18 <racetrack> oh absolutely, the code is out there :) if nothing else it shuts my brother up, who claims to want to try it but would prefer whinging at me to setting up build environment etc
12:09:26 <racetrack> as for me, I wouldn't have a clue - no windows here
12:10:01 <Forked> bah. still can't upload files bigger than 2MB to the forum .. there goes the counter.
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12:13:05 <sadsadsadas> dammit, still not good enough, I am looking for a way to increase production of an industry
12:13:19 <sadsadsadas> what ecs can do is to make resources unlimited and dont close industry
12:13:28 <sadsadsadas> but does not effect the production level
12:16:39 <dihedral> sadsadsadas -> forums ;-)
12:19:25 <Forked> so uh.. lots of <cr>'s .. and: "rubidium@svn.openttd.org's password:" .. think he would fall for it? :\
12:19:40 <Forked> spaces perhaps, anyway nevermind
12:19:57 <petern> ls doesn't generally require a password...
12:20:14 <Forked> uhm no, but a login window might
12:21:07 <Ammler> Forked: forums file limit is bigger then 3.2 MB at least
12:22:09 <Ammler> (my size of a openttd bundle)
12:22:44 <Forked> Ammler: It complains about a setting in php.ini when I try to upload a 3.2(ish)MB zip now
12:23:12 <Ammler> oh, maybe since the update
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12:33:20 <Ammler> :-o drive through a depot without slowdown?
12:33:54 <Ammler> (something for Belugas ;-)
12:34:26 <Rubidium> no, but it's realistic for train to pass a depot at 640 km/h
12:42:00 <dihedral> Rubidium, sure, they dont even need to work at conveyor belts anymore :P
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12:44:13 <sadsadsadas> dihedral: I tried to search forums for clues but couldn't find anything, any suggestions where to look ?
12:44:14 <racetrack> Ammler: haven't finished it yet, thats next on my list
12:45:12 <Ammler> sadsadsadas: [12:41] <Ammler> just the grf parameters to 15 15
12:45:16 <dihedral> sadsadsadas, yes, behind the 'post reply' button in the ecs thread
12:45:30 <sadsadsadas> Ammler, but parameteres does not alter prouction itself
12:45:45 <Ammler> well, that needs "playing" the game
12:45:52 <Ammler> or do you want just watch it?
12:46:49 <Ammler> maybe you should play "The Transporter.avi" then
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13:59:52 <dihedral> your message made me laugh ^^
14:05:25 <planetmaker> I shouldn't have read posts of people on my ignore list...
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14:07:13 <Forked> "Skillz, I haz it but.." makes no sense :p
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14:12:21 * Belugas guesses it's part of a tentative to look cool
14:12:38 <Belugas> failed miserably, if you ask me
14:15:45 <Forked> planetmaker: he did type please :)
14:22:38 <planetmaker> Forked: fair enough :)
14:27:42 <orudge> Ammler: thanks for the highlight, heh
14:27:46 <orudge> forgot about checking that
14:28:09 <Ammler> it rolled back to the old setting 2MB
14:28:21 <orudge> should be fixed now I hope
14:28:58 <Ammler> shouldn't be below 4, imo.
14:29:24 <Sacro> should be enough for anyone
14:29:46 <Ammler> noai rised it around 10%
14:30:47 <Ammler> well, you could also remove the language files to drop around 30%
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14:34:02 <Turnskin> First i would thank every GRF maker here for their exellent work :)
14:34:28 <Ammler> another British American difference?
14:35:27 <Turnskin> 'cause i'm trying to set grf pack properly 4 hours already :) would to have all features included.
14:36:07 <Belugas> [10:35] <Turnskin> First i would thank every GRF maker here for their exellent work :) <--- yeah... and the devs?? prrrrrt
14:36:11 <Turnskin> My today question is: which is the limit for GRFs for the OTTD 0.7?
14:36:27 <planetmaker> raised, I think, Ammler :)
14:36:35 <Turnskin> Belugas And the Developers too of course!
14:37:52 <planetmaker> Turnskin: are you sure they all make concurrently sense?
14:37:53 <Belugas> [10:38] <Turnskin> Belugas And the Developers too of course! <-- Ahhh better :)
14:38:04 <Turnskin> Including nice OpenGFX
14:38:18 <Belugas> yes, only 62 files only
14:38:41 <planetmaker> something learnt again thanks to Belugas and glx :)
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14:40:43 <Turnskin_> I would to test and to enjoy all the spectre of vehicles, trains and stations as well as OpenGFX but i can't :(
14:41:20 <planetmaker> yeah, don't use all at the same time.
14:41:44 <planetmaker> Especially vehicle newgrfs tend to produce many unwanted side-effects (cross-talk), if used concurrently
14:45:45 <Ammler> most sets should be used exclusive in the category they modify
14:46:18 <ameno> is there any way to close the last opened window or the last window you interacted with?
14:46:34 <ameno> i tend to hit esc all the time, but those nasty windows dont vanish :)
14:46:40 <planetmaker> the most notable exception in categories is station sets. They work nicely along eachother
14:47:30 <ameno> i noticed, that openttd, does not have a "current" window
14:47:35 <ameno> as most winow managers do
14:47:37 <planetmaker> I usually open a bunch, sticky one and close all :)
14:47:46 <ameno> therefore i asked about the "last opened" one :)
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14:48:10 <Ammler> hmm, didn't zuu patch something like that?
14:48:28 <ameno> yeah... but i thought its quite annoying and wondered if im the only one, that thinks so :)
14:48:49 <petern> not quite the liquid lunch i was hoping for...
14:50:15 <Turnskin> It means that anybody can write his own algorythm of pathfinding etc in his preferrable lang and use different versions in low level, simply
14:50:25 <Turnskin> turning the pulgin on and off
14:50:54 <glx> Turnskin: and how can that work on multi platform?
14:51:10 <Turnskin> glx It's another problem :)
14:51:59 <Turnskin> But e.g.i dislike modern situation with the signals at all. 2-way signals are not only the "2-way" but also are pointers to a train as
14:52:14 <Turnskin> "can go but not must"
14:53:40 <Turnskin> But i could write a plugin in Delphi, e.g. getting path scheme with all signals and returning a way to a train must go.
14:53:54 <Turnskin> 'cause i don't know C :(
14:54:19 <SmatZ> what can be done is company-specific pathfinder settings
14:54:20 <Belugas> I Know Delphi too. At one point, i did not knew C. I leared
14:54:44 <Belugas> in fact, i work in Delphi...
14:54:49 <Turnskin> Well, my VPN continues to be crazy... So please repeat, does the 64+- GRF is the limit?
14:54:50 <glx> anyway all clients must do the same thing in multiplayer
14:55:08 <SmatZ> like, that "custom" pathfinder is not possible
14:55:32 <glx> but a tar with mutliple grfs count for 1
14:56:39 <Turnskin> glx Does it understand a .tar as directory (with separate GRFs are exluded in list)?
14:56:40 <petern> you've given Ammler ideas...
14:57:05 <Ammler> well, my vps has "open files limit" :-)
14:57:38 <Ammler> I keep my ideas quite down lately...
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14:57:50 <glx> ho and the 62 limit includes basegrf too (that's why I have TTD files in a tar ;) )
14:58:11 <petern> and the 62 limit is arbitrary :D
15:00:02 <Ammler> I once reached that limit, as I made the wwottdgd scenario, but it was lower at that time, somewhere around 50
15:01:01 <petern> it used to be 30, or so
15:01:05 <Belugas> arbitraty? Isn't it linked to a limit on the IP protocol? I may be wrong, though
15:01:07 <Turnskin> Hey, another idea :) Does anybody work in many-industries direction? I mean the same GRF understanding by OTTD as it's for vehicles.
15:01:26 <Ammler> it is quite hard to configure that many newgrfs
15:01:50 <SmatZ> it was lower bevause there were more OTTD grfs than just openttd.grf (now all of them are in openttd.grf)
15:01:53 <Belugas> Turnskin: many-industries? waht do you mean?
15:02:54 <Turnskin> Belugas I mean user could include many industrial GRF together and they will work together. E.g. ECS+New cargoes+Pikka's industries.
15:03:40 <Turnskin> Using same GRF ID internally, but OTTD will use reference table. As for vehicles GRFs.
15:04:03 *** Guest307 is now known as lolman
15:04:17 <Turnskin> Ha! Another my idea as the gift for you
15:04:18 <petern> no, nobody's working on that
15:04:19 <Belugas> Turnskin, i think you do not know how the system works...
15:04:39 <glx> hmm I think PNG_SLOT may conflict with grfs
15:04:40 <petern> iirc it already works like that, just theres a limited number of slots
15:04:47 <Belugas> vehicles and industries are two different beasts
15:04:55 <Turnskin> (Sticky ENTER key :( )
15:05:29 <Turnskin> The idea is XML based GRFs, saves and scenarios.
15:05:37 <Turnskin> Packed by free zlib.
15:05:37 <Belugas> no freaking fucking way
15:05:49 <Belugas> forget it, don't even dream on it
15:06:01 <Turnskin> This way anybody could change anything in this.
15:06:04 <Belugas> and don't even ask why, this debate is closed, once and or all
15:06:16 <Rubidium> Turnskin: and then wait half a day just to download a GRF?
15:06:19 <glx> anybody can modify grfs already :)
15:06:22 <Turnskin> Ahhh... I'm not the first :(
15:06:57 <petern> unfortunately, not the last
15:07:07 <Turnskin> Rubidium I thought in this - compressed XML is not very large.
15:07:30 <Rubidium> Turnskin: compressed XML with binary crap, but that's just faking the use of XML
15:07:58 <Turnskin> Well, this way: how can i modify saves??
15:08:08 <Turnskin> E.g. from old version
15:08:20 <Rubidium> i.e. how to define a signal?
15:08:24 <Turnskin> Belugas Thus i thought to XML :)
15:08:27 <Belugas> unless you really know what you are doing using a debugger or else
15:08:31 <Ammler> [16:03] <Turnskin> Belugas I mean user could include many industrial GRF together and they will work together. E.g. ECS+New cargoes+Pikka's industries. <-- good idea, as ECS alone is way too few anyway... :-D
15:09:02 <Belugas> nowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynoway
15:09:20 <glx> Ammler: yes it's too easy to make money with ECS ;)
15:09:30 <Forked> tomorrow it's 10 years since the first futurama episode aired (Space Pilot 3000) :-)
15:09:30 <Rubidium> <signal><type>block</type><direction>north east</direction></signal
15:09:55 <Rubidium> now I add a new type of signal... but the old version doesn't know about it... how to convert?
15:09:58 <petern> Ben Goodger and the Mysterious Ticking Noise
15:10:38 <Rubidium> hmm... lets do a proof of concept kinda thing ;)
15:10:44 <Turnskin> Rubidium You simply open XML editor and set params and atts manually.
15:10:53 <goodger> petern: tics, not ticks :P
15:11:20 <Ammler> Turnskin: try to make a game with one or two vectors of ECS, if that is too less, add another vector...
15:11:24 <petern> the noise of a nervous muscle spasm...
15:11:28 <Turnskin> BTW, there is the parameter of the daylength in OTTD 0.7?
15:11:31 <goodger> well, I am sometimes given to sharp intakes of breath when tic-ing...?
15:11:54 <Rubidium> Turnskin: any idea how big it'd become?
15:12:27 <petern> quick, modify SlObject to use xml!
15:12:36 <Turnskin> Ammler Due to this question i had a situation with simple PIkka's industries and MB's New Cargoes. I would to have electrostation and Fishing grounds together.
15:13:20 <Ammler> mb's new cargo is a experimental grf...
15:13:25 <Rubidium> Turnskin: and you think you can easily find the places where you need to make the changes?
15:14:13 <glx> signals are not stored as signals :)
15:14:44 <glx> they are signals because the game read them as signals
15:14:53 <Rubidium> Turnskin: what does 1 mean?
15:14:57 <SmatZ> one could save SlDesc tables in the savegame too
15:15:08 <SmatZ> but still it would be meaningless - there are internal things that are changing
15:15:09 <Turnskin> I mentioned XML 'cause i work with it in databases and find it very nice mechanism.
15:15:49 <petern> personally i use sql with databases...
15:15:49 <glx> Turnskin: XML is useful for only one thing, passing data from one system to another
15:15:58 <SmatZ> like, how would you convert current games to pre-cargopacket ones?
15:16:00 <Belugas> xml and databases? what a silly scheme
15:16:29 <Turnskin> But 1 and 8 means "Signal" and "NE" in this version. But "PBS" and "NEE" in later. And one can use XSLT for automatic conversion.
15:16:48 <SmatZ> one can just compile newer OTTD version
15:17:07 <glx> OTTD is smart enough to convert old saves on load
15:17:36 <Rubidium> Turnskin: ofcourse if you would have used PROPER XML instead of BINARY XML you wouldn't need the XSLT in this case
15:17:59 <Turnskin> One must download compiler, source, librares, be well-known in compilling...
15:18:11 <SmatZ> "programming XML dabases" is something different than "programming OTTD in C/C++"
15:19:16 <glx> why anybody would want to edit savegames anyway?
15:19:27 <Rubidium> Turnskin: just for 'comparison' I've made a dump of the map array in ASCII with some VERY repetitive headers. Using zlib with maximum compression yields a 690 KiB file.
15:19:48 <Belugas> ask that to Leander, glx :) he goofed and want to clean it ;)
15:20:07 <Rubidium> the savegame that contains the map AND all vehicles is only 136 KiB
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15:22:41 <Rubidium> discussion reset by pulling out the ethernet cable ;)
15:35:14 <pavel1269> does any train attitude change with changing debug/relase build?
15:42:18 <petern> attitude does not mean the same as behaviour
15:44:28 <SmatZ> simply, there shouldn't be a desync between "release" and "debug" builds in MP
15:45:56 <taisteluorava> heh, i played openttd with nokia x5800, works perfectly on 640x360 resolution and touchscreen is very accurate
15:48:04 <taisteluorava> and its pretty quick to move around map and build with touchscreen
15:48:40 <glx> taisteluorava: some windows are too big for it I guess
15:49:12 <taisteluorava> no, only news take half of screen, but i disabled those, its perfect to play now
15:50:08 <taisteluorava> and 640x360 resolution is high enought, even toolbar fit perfectly
15:51:29 <taisteluorava> also newGRF:s works very well
16:13:09 <taisteluorava> yeah, e71 have half smaller resolution than 5800
16:13:42 <Aali> god I hate writing software for windows
16:14:15 <taisteluorava> and its just way quicker build with touchscreen, no need switch between diffrent angel rails, can use that "all direction" building style easily and accurative
16:14:24 <Aali> still haven't figured out the opengl problem
16:14:52 <Aali> and the only thing I actually know what its doing is my own code
16:15:47 <Aali> the host application for my loadable dll is a black box and the opengl driver is an encrypted black box
16:16:17 <Aali> I've tried moving the whole opengl init sequence to where the problem appears, that just made it worse
16:16:56 <Aali> now its crashing in SetPixelFormat
16:17:17 <Aali> it seems that after a certain point in time, any calls to the opengl driver just crash the entire thing
16:26:56 <pavel1269> why trains stop at each station, the go throught, even there is no such a command ?
16:27:51 <pavel1269> well, they don t have that station in orders at all
16:29:29 <pavel1269> if i change track layout, that now some trains have to go throught station, i must catch ALL of em and give them orders??
16:31:59 <Aali> did you try using non-stop orders?
16:32:15 <Aali> it should be quite obvious how they work once you see them in action
16:32:21 <Ammler> non-stop orders is the "solution" for almost every usage...
16:32:38 <Ammler> you can set it as default btw.
16:34:02 <pavel1269> i am gonna try, and this should explain, why it in 15832 work :P
16:35:06 <pavel1269> okay ... so stupid problem ...
16:36:15 <Aali> single-stepping through glGenTextures with a debugger just magically makes it work
16:36:56 <petern> yeah, here's a suggestion
16:37:24 <glx> Aali: maybe a threading problem
16:37:51 <Aali> glx: I'm pretty sure it is, but I have no control over any threads
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16:38:47 <Aali> the opengl driver is, and so is the host app, my guess is that the host app is trashing TLS
16:39:04 <Aali> but if thats the case, I have no way of fixing it
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16:42:26 <Belugas> Aali: use non-stop library
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17:07:32 <ameno> wtf is wrong, if a train does not load the cargo of an industry thats clearly in range?
17:08:00 <glx> does the station accepts the cargo?
17:08:06 <Vikthor> is it refitted to carry that cargo?
17:08:27 <yorick> oh look, a 500 Internal Server Error on openttd.org
17:08:35 <ameno> glx: wrong way, industry supplies the cargo
17:08:53 <yorick> with a Cherokee web server 0.99.8 (UNIX), Port 80 message
17:09:10 <glx> 2 concurrents with better rating than you ?
17:09:16 <ameno> Vikthor yes.. the same train works a few squares north with the same industry type
17:09:49 <glx> only 2 stations can get the cargo anyway
17:10:41 <KenjiE20> maybe you don't cover enough/the right square to get the cargo
17:11:19 <ameno> KenjiE20 its directly adjacent to the station
17:11:36 <ameno> it should cover all of the industry's fields imho
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17:12:00 <KenjiE20> have you checked with the catchment on?
17:13:51 <ameno> i did not really change anything... just rescheduled the train again
17:14:01 <ameno> but it was correct before im sure
17:14:59 <ameno> ill check if i can reproduce it in one of the autosaves
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17:18:05 <ameno> yes i can... and i know what the problem is.. it was set to "non-stop"
17:18:14 <ameno> and i have that patch enabled...
17:18:43 <ameno> forgot about that... non-stop is then interpreted as waypoint iirc?
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17:20:26 <Ammler> [17:32] <Ammler> non-stop orders is the "solution" for almost every usage... <-- ;-)
17:21:08 <ameno> un-solution in this case :)
17:21:34 <Ammler> waypoint "replacement" is via, afaik.
17:21:54 <petern> waypoints are waypoints and have not been replaced
17:22:46 <Ammler> petern: see the """ ;-)
17:24:15 <Ammler> that is just to set the default behavior
17:24:27 <ameno> so if i have that patch enabled, a station set go non-stop + load != work
17:24:44 <Ammler> which version do you play?
17:24:58 <Ammler> ah ok, quite old, then you might need that
17:27:58 <Ammler> ameno: non-stop handling is just to tell the train not stopping on other stations on his way
17:28:27 <Ammler> like if you use stations as waypoints
17:28:58 <petern> well that patch setting is stupid
17:29:18 <Ammler> it is described a little bit odd
17:31:29 <petern> it makes people thing "non-stop" means "don't stop"
17:31:39 <petern> or rather "don't stop at"
17:31:51 <ameno> well... it seems it works like that in my version
17:32:12 <ameno> the station was set to (go to) non-stop + load
17:32:27 <ameno> and it did not load, but left immediatly
17:32:33 <petern> yeah, because you enabled that patch option
17:32:37 <Ammler> german text is something like "do orders per default without "between"-stops"
17:33:49 <Ammler> petern: because he didn't?
17:34:26 <Ammler> we always played with that enabled...
17:35:05 <glx> well use 0.7.0+ and problem is solved ;)
17:35:54 <Ammler> (or even more confusing...) ;-)
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17:36:24 <glx> depends on translators now :)
17:36:53 <glx> "via" and "go non stop to" are available at the same time
17:37:23 <glx> TTDPatch non-stop handling was one or the other
17:38:07 <Ammler> he, french also changes the font
17:42:00 <Ammler> isn't "without-stop" english?
17:42:27 <Ammler> maybe better then non-stop
17:42:39 <Aali> it makes no sense but I think I just solved my opengl issues \o/
17:43:52 <Aali> glGenTextures wasn't crashing at all
17:44:05 <Aali> but something really confused the debugger
17:44:28 <Aali> the actual crash came later on, with a bad call to glTexImage2D
17:45:04 <glx> debugger and multi thread can be fun ;)
17:45:09 <Aali> found it by literally commenting out all of my code line-by-line
17:45:56 <Aali> my code is only ever called from the main thread of the host app
17:46:48 <Aali> I think the opengl drivers did some trickery to lose the debugger intentionally
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18:21:51 <Sacro> Hmm, where is Large Font used?
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20:36:37 <gass> is it usual for openttd to consume 50% of cpu
20:36:56 <gass> with 2048x2048 and 1(one) trail and 2(two) stations?
20:38:02 <petern> large map is a lot of work
20:38:20 <gass> but 50%, with one train?
20:38:46 <petern> well, of course it depends on the cpu in question
20:39:08 <petern> but there's more to (open)ttd than just the train
20:39:17 <Belugas> it's not just about trains. it could be opponents, industries, even towns. lots can happen
20:39:35 <gass> well ... it is a modest cpu
20:39:35 <gass> model name : Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU 420 @ 1.60GHz
20:39:47 <petern> think yourself lucky then
20:40:04 <gass> Belugas, true ... but for now ... its one train ... obviously ... there is more going on
20:40:20 <glx> 32bpp can help too sometimes
20:40:36 <gass> Rubidium, 2048x2048, the map
20:40:40 <Belugas> and animations, let's not forgtet animation :D
20:41:33 <gass> Belugas, like i said... its one train ... in 2048x2048 we can imagine the number of animations after 10 years
20:41:33 <Belugas> gass, resolution does not mean map size, but the screen dimension ;)
20:41:37 <Rubidium> it's very unlikely that you've got 2048x2048 screen resolution (especially because 0.6.3 doesn't support that resolution)
20:42:59 <Belugas> ingame, you know where is the setting button n the toolbar?
20:43:52 <Belugas> if so, click on it, and keep mouse button down. tell us if Full Animation in checked
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23:00:07 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r15865 /trunk/src/company_gui.cpp: -Codechange: New widgets for company finances windows
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23:15:22 <goodger> ooh, a lovely netsplit
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23:57:58 <gass> are there any new icon/image sets (instead of the original ones?
23:59:16 <Ammler> which is also used in the OpenGFX
continue to next day ⏵
